I'm looking for my next keyboard, and I can't decide between Ergo Clear and Topre. I have no way of trying out either, so I want to see some opinions here. Do you prefer Ergo Clears or Topre? Can you guys also tell me which weight you liked the most on both i.e. 55g uniform Topre or Korean 62g Ergo Clear.
Thanks!
If you're in Europe you could try and sign up for the Realforce 104 Euro Tour over at Deskthority.net (http://deskthority.net/try-before-you-buy-f29/the-realforce-104-euro-tour-reboot-t5526.html). Obviously, you'd still need to try the ergos but you never know.. you might fall in love with Topre.
You can't decide which key switch you like by imagining. That simply isn't the way it works.If you're in Europe you could try and sign up for the Realforce 104 Euro Tour over at Deskthority.net (http://deskthority.net/try-before-you-buy-f29/the-realforce-104-euro-tour-reboot-t5526.html). Obviously, you'd still need to try the ergos but you never know.. you might fall in love with Topre.
you don't need to try topre.. they feel exactly like rubber dome, just IMagine typing on rubber dome, but NEVER having to press hard like on standard rubber dome because the activation point is guaranteed..
You can't decide which key switch you like by imagining. That simply isn't the way it works.If you're in Europe you could try and sign up for the Realforce 104 Euro Tour over at Deskthority.net (http://deskthority.net/try-before-you-buy-f29/the-realforce-104-euro-tour-reboot-t5526.html). Obviously, you'd still need to try the ergos but you never know.. you might fall in love with Topre.
you don't need to try topre.. they feel exactly like rubber dome, just IMagine typing on rubber dome, but NEVER having to press hard like on standard rubber dome because the activation point is guaranteed..
Topre is a more refined experience. Ergo clears are the closest cherry switch to topre....but topre bests it. Put it this way...I have tried nearly every switch under the sun and I keep coming back to topre.
Topre is a more refined experience. Ergo clears are the closest cherry switch to topre....but topre bests it. Put it this way...I have tried nearly every switch under the sun and I keep coming back to topre.
you have to be clear that it's your preference though... and the OP might like cherry better.
I've always presented a neutral description of the two switches..
Topre is a more refined experience. Ergo clears are the closest cherry switch to topre....but topre bests it. Put it this way...I have tried nearly every switch under the sun and I keep coming back to topre.
Topre is a more refined experience. Ergo clears are the closest cherry switch to topre....but topre bests it. Put it this way...I have tried nearly every switch under the sun and I keep coming back to topre.
you have to be clear that it's your preference though... and the OP might like cherry better.
I've always presented a neutral description of the two switches..
Ok fine.....topre bottoms out softer and the tactile bump is rounder. Ergo clears bottom out harder. Topre has a thocky sound, ergo clears sound like plastic hitting metal.
Happy tp?
Topre is a more refined experience. Ergo clears are the closest cherry switch to topre....but topre bests it. Put it this way...I have tried nearly every switch under the sun and I keep coming back to topre.Exactly.
Topre is a more refined experience. Ergo clears are the closest cherry switch to topre....but topre bests it. Put it this way...I have tried nearly every switch under the sun and I keep coming back to topre.Exactly.
I'm nearly finished my ergo-clears KBT Pure project that's been all Korean'd up with stickers, lube, etc. Any switches that I've tested so far simply can't compare to my Realforce 87U silent or other Topre keyboards. This maxed-out Pure will end up for sale like everything else has. I actually find myself getting quite attached to my Realforce board because it works so damn well for work.
Even if you give MX switches the best possible configuration, Topre is still in a different league entirely. These beautiful Korean keyboards seem pretty pointless (to me) because they're so flawless, yet stuck with the switches used in $40 gaming keyboards. Perfect Alu cases, plates, lube, and stickers really just amounts to lipstick on a pig when the very core of the typing experience is still the same cheapo MX switch. It's form over function.
Topre is a level of refinement and quality that will never be possible with MX, unless they release an entirely redesigned switch type. You really should test a Realforce kb for a least a month. It might save you from wasting your time and money.
Topre is a more refined experience. Ergo clears are the closest cherry switch to topre....but topre bests it. Put it this way...I have tried nearly every switch under the sun and I keep coming back to topre.Exactly.
I'm nearly finished my ergo-clears KBT Pure project that's been all Korean'd up with stickers, lube, etc. Any switches that I've tested so far simply can't compare to my Realforce 87U silent or other Topre keyboards. This maxed-out Pure will end up for sale like everything else has. I actually find myself getting quite attached to my Realforce board because it works so damn well for work.
Even if you give MX switches the best possible configuration, Topre is still in a different league entirely. These beautiful Korean keyboards seem pretty pointless (to me) because they're so flawless, yet stuck with the switches used in $40 gaming keyboards. Perfect Alu cases, plates, lube, and stickers really just amounts to lipstick on a pig when the very core of the typing experience is still the same cheapo MX switch. It's form over function.
Topre is a level of refinement and quality that will never be possible with MX, unless they release an entirely redesigned switch type. You really should test a Realforce kb for a least a month. It might save you from wasting your time and money.
Topre is a more refined experience. Ergo clears are the closest cherry switch to topre....but topre bests it. Put it this way...I have tried nearly every switch under the sun and I keep coming back to topre.Exactly.
I'm nearly finished my ergo-clears KBT Pure project that's been all Korean'd up with stickers, lube, etc. Any switches that I've tested so far simply can't compare to my Realforce 87U silent or other Topre keyboards. This maxed-out Pure will end up for sale like everything else has. I actually find myself getting quite attached to my Realforce board because it works so damn well for work.
Even if you give MX switches the best possible configuration, Topre is still in a different league entirely. These beautiful Korean keyboards seem pretty pointless (to me) because they're so flawless, yet stuck with the switches used in $40 gaming keyboards. Perfect Alu cases, plates, lube, and stickers really just amounts to lipstick on a pig when the very core of the typing experience is still the same cheapo MX switch. It's form over function.
Topre is a level of refinement and quality that will never be possible with MX, unless they release an entirely redesigned switch type. You really should test a Realforce kb for a least a month. It might save you from wasting your time and money.
I've had the internal debate with myself before. If you tried topre right off the bat, before trying any mx, buckling spring, or ALPs switch....would you truely appreciate topre switches? It seems to me that the majority of topre users who love the switch are fairly experienced with cherry switches. Topre seems to be the switch a ton of us keyboard junkies settle into once we've run through a majority of switches.
Topre is a more refined experience. Ergo clears are the closest cherry switch to topre....but topre bests it. Put it this way...I have tried nearly every switch under the sun and I keep coming back to topre.Exactly.
I'm nearly finished my ergo-clears KBT Pure project that's been all Korean'd up with stickers, lube, etc. Any switches that I've tested so far simply can't compare to my Realforce 87U silent or other Topre keyboards. This maxed-out Pure will end up for sale like everything else has. I actually find myself getting quite attached to my Realforce board because it works so damn well for work.
Even if you give MX switches the best possible configuration, Topre is still in a different league entirely. These beautiful Korean keyboards seem pretty pointless (to me) because they're so flawless, yet stuck with the switches used in $40 gaming keyboards. Perfect Alu cases, plates, lube, and stickers really just amounts to lipstick on a pig when the very core of the typing experience is still the same cheapo MX switch. It's form over function.
Topre is a level of refinement and quality that will never be possible with MX, unless they release an entirely redesigned switch type. You really should test a Realforce kb for a least a month. It might save you from wasting your time and money.
I've had the internal debate with myself before. If you tried topre right off the bat, before trying any mx, buckling spring, or ALPs switch....would you truely appreciate topre switches? It seems to me that the majority of topre users who love the switch are fairly experienced with cherry switches. Topre seems to be the switch a ton of us keyboard junkies settle into once we've run through a majority of switches.
That's a confirmation bias... the fact that there are so few of your so called "experts" out there, and even fewer with the disposable income to try so many boards..
What you're describing is pure bologna... :D
Again, I wouldn't be saying this if you weren't so biased...
Topre is a more refined experience. Ergo clears are the closest cherry switch to topre....but topre bests it. Put it this way...I have tried nearly every switch under the sun and I keep coming back to topre.Exactly.
I'm nearly finished my ergo-clears KBT Pure project that's been all Korean'd up with stickers, lube, etc. Any switches that I've tested so far simply can't compare to my Realforce 87U silent or other Topre keyboards. This maxed-out Pure will end up for sale like everything else has. I actually find myself getting quite attached to my Realforce board because it works so damn well for work.
Even if you give MX switches the best possible configuration, Topre is still in a different league entirely. These beautiful Korean keyboards seem pretty pointless (to me) because they're so flawless, yet stuck with the switches used in $40 gaming keyboards. Perfect Alu cases, plates, lube, and stickers really just amounts to lipstick on a pig when the very core of the typing experience is still the same cheapo MX switch. It's form over function.
Topre is a level of refinement and quality that will never be possible with MX, unless they release an entirely redesigned switch type. You really should test a Realforce kb for a least a month. It might save you from wasting your time and money.
I've had the internal debate with myself before. If you tried topre right off the bat, before trying any mx, buckling spring, or ALPs switch....would you truely appreciate topre switches? It seems to me that the majority of topre users who love the switch are fairly experienced with cherry switches. Topre seems to be the switch a ton of us keyboard junkies settle into once we've run through a majority of switches.
That's a confirmation bias... the fact that there are so few of your so called "experts" out there, and even fewer with the disposable income to try so many boards..
What you're describing is pure bologna... :D
Again, I wouldn't be saying this if you weren't so biased...
You argument is circular TP. Try harder broseph.
I still <3 you though.
The "opinions" on this forum about topre is highly polarized..
The "opinions" on this forum about topre is highly polarized..
If by polarized you mean: 100 members for Topre for every 100 posts by you against Topre :))
There's probably an even larger number of Topre users who found their perfect keyboard, then never returned to the forums.
On the other hand, if they're 14 and doing the MX thing, they'll need to cycle through all of the switch colors, buy some lubes, order a plate, springs, etc. This is all before ever saving up for a Realforce or HHKB :D
The "opinions" on this forum about topre is highly polarized..
If by polarized you mean: 100 members for Topre for every 100 posts by you against Topre :))
Topre is a more refined experience. Ergo clears are the closest cherry switch to topre....but topre bests it. Put it this way...I have tried nearly every switch under the sun and I keep coming back to topre.Exactly.
I'm nearly finished my ergo-clears KBT Pure project that's been all Korean'd up with stickers, lube, etc. Any switches that I've tested so far simply can't compare to my Realforce 87U silent or other Topre keyboards. This maxed-out Pure will end up for sale like everything else has. I actually find myself getting quite attached to my Realforce board because it works so damn well for work.
Even if you give MX switches the best possible configuration, Topre is still in a different league entirely. These beautiful Korean keyboards seem pretty pointless (to me) because they're so flawless, yet stuck with the switches used in $40 gaming keyboards. Perfect Alu cases, plates, lube, and stickers really just amounts to lipstick on a pig when the very core of the typing experience is still the same cheapo MX switch. It's form over function.
Topre is a level of refinement and quality that will never be possible with MX, unless they release an entirely redesigned switch type. You really should test a Realforce kb for a least a month. It might save you from wasting your time and money.
I've had the internal debate with myself before. If you tried topre right off the bat, before trying any mx, buckling spring, or ALPs switch....would you truely appreciate topre switches? It seems to me that the majority of topre users who love the switch are fairly experienced with cherry switches. Topre seems to be the switch a ton of us keyboard junkies settle into once we've run through a majority of switches.
That's a confirmation bias... the fact that there are so few of your so called "experts" out there, and even fewer with the disposable income to try so many boards..
What you're describing is pure bologna... :D
Again, I wouldn't be saying this if you weren't so biased...
You argument is circular TP. Try harder broseph.
I still <3 you though.
I am pointing out that there are too few people who have done the comparison to definitively say TOPRE is better by vote..
It is also impossible to say which switch is truly better... there's always two sides... and too often when you give a keyboard recommendation, you offer YOUR side...
I've not recommended either keyboard..
ONLY detailed descriptions
The "opinions" on this forum about topre is highly polarized..
If by polarized you mean: 100 members for Topre for every 100 posts by you against Topre :))Topre is a more refined experience. Ergo clears are the closest cherry switch to topre....but topre bests it. Put it this way...I have tried nearly every switch under the sun and I keep coming back to topre.Exactly.
I'm nearly finished my ergo-clears KBT Pure project that's been all Korean'd up with stickers, lube, etc. Any switches that I've tested so far simply can't compare to my Realforce 87U silent or other Topre keyboards. This maxed-out Pure will end up for sale like everything else has. I actually find myself getting quite attached to my Realforce board because it works so damn well for work.
Even if you give MX switches the best possible configuration, Topre is still in a different league entirely. These beautiful Korean keyboards seem pretty pointless (to me) because they're so flawless, yet stuck with the switches used in $40 gaming keyboards. Perfect Alu cases, plates, lube, and stickers really just amounts to lipstick on a pig when the very core of the typing experience is still the same cheapo MX switch. It's form over function.
Topre is a level of refinement and quality that will never be possible with MX, unless they release an entirely redesigned switch type. You really should test a Realforce kb for a least a month. It might save you from wasting your time and money.
I've had the internal debate with myself before. If you tried topre right off the bat, before trying any mx, buckling spring, or ALPs switch....would you truely appreciate topre switches? It seems to me that the majority of topre users who love the switch are fairly experienced with cherry switches. Topre seems to be the switch a ton of us keyboard junkies settle into once we've run through a majority of switches.
That's a confirmation bias... the fact that there are so few of your so called "experts" out there, and even fewer with the disposable income to try so many boards..
What you're describing is pure bologna... :D
Again, I wouldn't be saying this if you weren't so biased...
You argument is circular TP. Try harder broseph.
I still <3 you though.
I am pointing out that there are too few people who have done the comparison to definitively say TOPRE is better by vote..
It is also impossible to say which switch is truly better... there's always two sides... and too often when you give a keyboard recommendation, you offer YOUR side...
I've not recommended either keyboard..
ONLY detailed descriptions
^I agree with you here TP.
But you can't dismiss an opinion based on bias...because an opinion is entirely bias...that's what makes it an opinion.
Topre is a more refined experience. Ergo clears are the closest cherry switch to topre....but topre bests it. Put it this way...I have tried nearly every switch under the sun and I keep coming back to topre.Exactly.
I'm nearly finished my ergo-clears KBT Pure project that's been all Korean'd up with stickers, lube, etc. Any switches that I've tested so far simply can't compare to my Realforce 87U silent or other Topre keyboards. This maxed-out Pure will end up for sale like everything else has. I actually find myself getting quite attached to my Realforce board because it works so damn well for work.
Even if you give MX switches the best possible configuration, Topre is still in a different league entirely. These beautiful Korean keyboards seem pretty pointless (to me) because they're so flawless, yet stuck with the switches used in $40 gaming keyboards. Perfect Alu cases, plates, lube, and stickers really just amounts to lipstick on a pig when the very core of the typing experience is still the same cheapo MX switch. It's form over function.
Topre is a level of refinement and quality that will never be possible with MX, unless they release an entirely redesigned switch type. You really should test a Realforce kb for a least a month. It might save you from wasting your time and money.
A not uncommon conclusion to the same journey. A few forum searches will find plenty of FS posts where people are ditching their crap, including Korean customs because they "really only use their HHKB/Realforce". There's far fewer shifting the other direction within the realm of workhorse "getting **** done" keyboards. Collecting keycaps and custom kb projects are kind of a separate thing.
I have gone through the same journey, tried every single switch I could possibly try, and ended up back at Topre. While it may be a matter of personal opinion on what switch is better/best, the many people that use Topre are surely not delusional.
You can use the argument that topre is a rubber dome, and sure, technically yes it is. Does that make it the same as your scissor switch or other cheap rubber domes? Most certainly not. Any argument based on this, is one based on pure ignorance.
But let's get real here; we ARE having this discussion with tp4, after all.....
This is all before ever saving up for a Realforce or HHKB :D
Thanks for all the input, I think I'm leaning towards a TKL RF 55g. Oh, and I have a completely unrelated question, does Bro Caps happen to be the guy that makes brobots, or are they not related?
Bro Caps happen to be the guy that makes brobots, or are they not related?
Ergo-clear and Topre are not comparable since they feel nothing alike. Obviously then, it's all down to preference.
/thread
I respect that fact that you don't like Topre. I can even completely understand why some people wouldn't like the switches. However, you really seem to just go on and on with the negativity. It's non-stop. What's the point? It's time to get over your hate and move on to something more productive.Ergo-clear and Topre are not comparable since they feel nothing alike. Obviously then, it's all down to preference.
/thread
I agree... but people love to paint their own trophies
However, you really seem to just go on and on with the negativity. It's non-stop. What's the point? It's time to get over your hate and move on to something more productive.
However, you really seem to just go on and on with the negativity. It's non-stop. What's the point? It's time to get over your hate and move on to something more productive.
Trev, meet tp4tissue.
Hope you don't expect anything more than what you described of tp4, because that is about as much as you will get.
However, you really seem to just go on and on with the negativity. It's non-stop. What's the point? It's time to get over your hate and move on to something more productive.
Trev, meet tp4tissue.
Hope you don't expect anything more than what you described of tp4, because that is about as much as you will get.
Yeah, I've lurked around for a long time before posting here. His Topre experience appears to have scarred him for life. So much bitterness and hate over a little Japanese keyboard company.
There's one particular keyboard manufacturer that I thought was vastly overrated and over-priced. I made a couple of careful comments (to hopefully benefit others) and moved on. Definitely not worth any further energy or effort for one bad keyboard.
Perhaps he's astro-turfing for another manufacturer? That would almost make more sense.
What a load of ****....However, you really seem to just go on and on with the negativity. It's non-stop. What's the point? It's time to get over your hate and move on to something more productive.
Trev, meet tp4tissue.
Hope you don't expect anything more than what you described of tp4, because that is about as much as you will get.
Yeah, I've lurked around for a long time before posting here. His Topre experience appears to have scarred him for life. So much bitterness and hate over a little Japanese keyboard company.
There's one particular keyboard manufacturer that I thought was vastly overrated and over-priced. I made a couple of careful comments (to hopefully benefit others) and moved on. Definitely not worth any further energy or effort for one bad keyboard.
Perhaps he's astro-turfing for another manufacturer? That would almost make more sense.
The personal experience I've shared is simply that OTHER PEOPLE's personal experience regarding which keyboard is BETTER is a terrible indicator and most often borderline lying.
What a load of ****....However, you really seem to just go on and on with the negativity. It's non-stop. What's the point? It's time to get over your hate and move on to something more productive.
Trev, meet tp4tissue.
Hope you don't expect anything more than what you described of tp4, because that is about as much as you will get.
Yeah, I've lurked around for a long time before posting here. His Topre experience appears to have scarred him for life. So much bitterness and hate over a little Japanese keyboard company.
There's one particular keyboard manufacturer that I thought was vastly overrated and over-priced. I made a couple of careful comments (to hopefully benefit others) and moved on. Definitely not worth any further energy or effort for one bad keyboard.
Perhaps he's astro-turfing for another manufacturer? That would almost make more sense.
The personal experience I've shared is simply that OTHER PEOPLE's personal experience regarding which keyboard is BETTER is a terrible indicator and most often borderline lying.
Personal experiences do matter. When an overwhelming majority of professionals who type all day end up with a HHKB or Realforce sitting on their desk (no doubt after blasting through tons of other keyboard types), I'd take note of such a trend. How are the cumulative experiences of these people not relevant?
You're an edge-case minority who dislikes these keyboards. Why parrot the same old BS and flawed arguments in every thread?
Thanks for all the input, I think I'm leaning towards a TKL RF 55g. Oh, and I have a completely unrelated question, does Bro Caps happen to be the guy that makes brobots, or are they not related?
The 55g's are a love it or hate it switch. You might want to make sure you've tried 45g and variable before committing to all 55's. ;)
My 55g esc keys provide enough input to know that I definitely wouldn't want a keyboard full of them, I'd be typing much slower. Weighting is a very subjective and personal thing, so make sure you don't get stuck with something that doesn't suit your style.
Where are you located? Maybe one of us could send you a Topre board to test. I'm in Queensland, Australia. I have a HHKB Type-S I'm not using (which will eventually be for sale).
You couldn't be more wrong..
I don't dislike Topre at all, because they feel the same, one's travels a bit smoother due to thicker shaft and higher tolerance, that's it.
What I dislike is You guys circle jerking each other about how Topre is magic...
So that is to say, I dislike the Topre Crowd..
This is misrepresentation...
You couldn't be more wrong..
I don't dislike Topre at all, because they feel the same, one's travels a bit smoother due to thicker shaft and higher tolerance, that's it.
What I dislike is You guys circle jerking each other about how Topre is magic...
So that is to say, I dislike the Topre Crowd..
This is misrepresentation...
You are high, dude. Literally.
I can't even count how many topre hate posts you have made on this forum. You haven't brought anything valuable to any discussion since you have been here. You have been muted several times for being a douche.
I think it's safe to assume that your opinions are based on your skewed perception of reality. Because if you think that people having a normal discussion about the positives and negatives of MX vs Topre is 'circle jerking', then you shouldn't be allowed in public. Maybe you need to keep your helmet on so you don't hurt yourself.
You couldn't be more wrong..
I don't dislike Topre at all, because they feel the same, one's travels a bit smoother due to thicker shaft and higher tolerance, that's it.
What I dislike is You guys circle jerking each other about how Topre is magic...
So that is to say, I dislike the Topre Crowd..
This is misrepresentation...
You are high, dude. Literally.
I can't even count how many topre hate posts you have made on this forum. You haven't brought anything valuable to any discussion since you have been here. You have been muted several times for being a douche.
I think it's safe to assume that your opinions are based on your skewed perception of reality. Because if you think that people having a normal discussion about the positives and negatives of MX vs Topre is 'circle jerking', then you shouldn't be allowed in public. Maybe you need to keep your helmet on so you don't hurt yourself.
I own a keyboard with Blues, I think it feels a bit light. Based off just that, can I assume which weighting would be best for me?MX/Topre switches are so different that your preference in the weighting of blues isn't really enough to go by (IMO). Even if Blues feel light to you, they also have a big tactile/audible click that actuates lower in the key press than Topre. Resistance in the Topre key press is fairly high up, then quickly drops off to an almost inevitable thock-out.
If you type. Get a Topre.
If you game more then you type I would suggest a cheap CherryMX board and then buy a Topre.
Ergo-clear and Topre are not comparable since they feel nothing alike. Obviously then, it's all down to preference.
/thread
Never made a topre hate comment.. I've only made H8 topre crowd comments..
i stand firm that I do not hate topre.. I'm saying it right now.. if you choose to believe otherwise or take what i've said out of context that's up to you..
I feel that topre feels very similar to rubber dome, and superior in engineering.
And yes, I see you guys with your topre circle jerks all the time.. topre appreciation thread? Laughable..
You're the ones who bring nothing but biased opinions into the discussion..
I stick with primarily neutral descriptions..
I add in my distaste for the Topre agenda, simply because i wouldn't want to see anyone making a bad decision when they're under the influence of your flak.
Never made a topre hate comment.. I've only made H8 topre crowd comments..
i stand firm that I do not hate topre.. I'm saying it right now.. if you choose to believe otherwise or take what i've said out of context that's up to you..
I feel that topre feels very similar to rubber dome, and superior in engineering.
And yes, I see you guys with your topre circle jerks all the time.. topre appreciation thread? Laughable..
You're the ones who bring nothing but biased opinions into the discussion..
I stick with primarily neutral descriptions..
I add in my distaste for the Topre agenda, simply because i wouldn't want to see anyone making a bad decision when they're under the influence of your flak.
Going back through threads and pasting all of them would take more time than you are worth.
'Topre appreciation thread...' is simply people that enjoy their boards and want to discuss it. It's clear you hate people enjoying things, since you seem so ready to pounce on anyone doing so.
Where in this discussion or any have I been biased? I have literally tried every switch. And only after that long journey, did I decide topre was the best for me.
The only 'flak' here, has been you're tired old rhetoric, over and over.
THAT is when I lose it...
THAT is when I lose it...
Sounds like you are mad, bro.
THAT is when I lose it...
Sounds like you are mad, bro.
really?, that's all you got..
Pathetic.
THAT is when I lose it...
Sounds like you are mad, bro.
really?, that's all you got..
Pathetic.
Awwww.....he's mad.
THAT is when I lose it...
Sounds like you are mad, bro.
really?, that's all you got..
Pathetic.
LOL... so now you turn into the lil' 4chan whiny kid who can't win arguments...
You lack conviction friend..
THAT is when I lose it...
Sounds like you are mad, bro.
really?, that's all you got..
Pathetic.
Well this is a forum. A place where people come to express opinions and views on certain topics.
I think the idea behind CherryMX < Topre is the fact that its an opinion and if they want to voice that, then they can.
I agree it can get a little excessive at times. But apparently you take it as a personal offensive every time someone mentions it. You really shouldn't because.....
....
A place where people come to express opinions and views on certain topics.
A place where people come to express opinions and views on certain topics.
A place where people come to express opinions and views on certain topics.
SmallFry
Honestly, I got a 55g first and fell in love. Then I got a 45g and was thoroughly underwhelmed, probably because of the high expectations I had from being so impressed by the 55g. Had I bought the 45g first, I would have stopped there and might feel the same way tp4 does. Either way it's all subjective. Don't take anyone's opinion as gospel. I read all kinds of stuff about how MX reds are the best thing EVAR... but I think they feel like cheap toys. The only way to know is for YOU to try.
Over 3200 tp4 posts, the majority these he's foaming at the mouth because people are discussing their favourite keyboard/key-switch on a keyboard forum. I think it's safe to assume he's a bit special.
I'd love to hear what his medication-stack and dosages are like.
Over 3200 tp4 posts, the majority these he's foaming at the mouth because people are discussing their favourite keyboard/key-switch on a keyboard forum. I think it's safe to assume he's a bit special.
I'd love to hear what his medication-stack and dosages are like.
There was a discussion somewhere about him being f'd in the head, that he actually started. Forgot where that went. But you are pretty spot-on.
That was from when i felt completely placated towards everything..
I didn't find life "hopeless" in the sad sense..
Rather
I found life "purposeless" in that the only goal was to find "purpose"..
That was from when i felt completely placated towards everything..
I didn't find life "hopeless" in the sad sense..
Rather
I found life "purposeless" in that the only goal was to find "purpose"..
So I guess you decided that trying to make other people miserable was your new-found sense of 'purpose'. Got it.
So you admit I make you feel miserable?
That was not my intention.. but you only embarrass yourself with your half-thoughts..
OH MY GOD YOU GUYS SHUT UP AND SMOKE WEED
OH MY GOD YOU GUYS SHUT UP AND SMOKE WEED
After I got topre I sold all my mx boards (blue + brown).
**** the haters.
I do have an ergo clear coming soon so I will be able to comment on the specific original ask soon though.....
After that its SSK time and I will have a complete collection!
You guys went way off topic.
ErgoClears are nice. I don't know what to say about Topre though.
Blues are bad for gaming.
You guys went way off topic.
ErgoClears are nice. I don't know what to say about Topre though.
Blues are bad for gaming.
Bro cap and caustin have a vendetta against me for losing too many arguments to me.. :D
I can do fine with blues.. streetfighter might be a problem, but 3s is fine, only sf4.
Bro cap and caustin have a vendetta against me for losing too many arguments to me.. :D
Bro cap and caustin have a vendetta against me for losing too many arguments to me.. :D
I don't have a vendetta against you. In fact, I find it quite entertaining as to just how delusional you are.
But back on topic:
Tried Ergo Clears - Topre still felt better, so here we are.
I'd still like to try out a heavy board with plate + ergo clears + Krytox mix. I really like putting together keyboards, so perhaps there's a future project in that :)
I'm looking for my next keyboard, and I can't decide between Ergo Clear and Topre. I have no way of trying out either, so I want to see some opinions here. Do you prefer Ergo Clears or Topre? Can you guys also tell me which weight you liked the most on both i.e. 55g uniform Topre or Korean 62g Ergo Clear.
Thanks!
I'm looking for my next keyboard, and I can't decide between Ergo Clear and Topre. I have no way of trying out either, so I want to see some opinions here. Do you prefer Ergo Clears or Topre? Can you guys also tell me which weight you liked the most on both i.e. 55g uniform Topre or Korean 62g Ergo Clear.
Thanks!
I think you're asking the wrong question. Most of us don't use individual switches, but whole keyboards with them. All I want is an open-source ergonomic keyboard. This won't happen anytime soon in case of Topre.
If I could choose between Topre and Cherry MX for my ErgoDox, I'd probably go the Topre way because of softer landing—all Cherry MX switches feel ”a bit too mechanical“ to me.
I'd still like to try out a heavy board with plate + ergo clears + Krytox mix. I really like putting together keyboards, so perhaps there's a future project in that :)
I'd still like to try out a heavy board with plate + ergo clears + Krytox mix. I really like putting together keyboards, so perhaps there's a future project in that :)
If you didn't live all the way down in Australia, I'd offer to send you my some 62g and 65g springs and my GH60 when I'm done so you could take it for a spin since it will have Krytox lubed Clears, stickers, and Victorinox oiled/lubed 67g springs. I really like my modded RK-9000, but it needs a little refining.
It's definitely a project worth trying at the very least and it's a lot of fun in spite of how time intensive it is.
mechanical != scratchyMore specifically, I meant that the browns felt a bit scratchy. It's the most noticeable on them. Very different to a lubed up Clear.
I mean mostly harsh bottoming out, and undamped upstroke.
mechanical != scratchyMore specifically, I meant that the browns felt a bit scratchy. It's the most noticeable on them. Very different to a lubed up Clear.
I mean mostly harsh bottoming out, and undamped upstroke.
That's really all I intended to communicate ;) It seems like a drop of Krytox would by a huge improvement on Browns. Surprising that it's not more common.mechanical != scratchyMore specifically, I meant that the browns felt a bit scratchy. It's the most noticeable on them. Very different to a lubed up Clear.
I mean mostly harsh bottoming out, and undamped upstroke.
I definitely do agree with that, but I don't think it's fair to compare dry browns with lubed clears. I doubt lubed browns would feel that bad.
That's really all I intended to communicate ;) It seems like a drop of Krytox would by a huge improvement on Browns. Surprising that it's not more common.
The Koala harvest has been rather lucrative this season. The rising popularity of Koala burgers just keeps pushing up our prices.That's really all I intended to communicate ;) It seems like a drop of Krytox would by a huge improvement on Browns. Surprising that it's not more common.
Krytox ain't cheap. Maybe to rich Australians like you where Koalas (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35219.0) grow on trees it's no big deal.
Okay. Has anyone weighed their Topre 10keyless or HHKB? What would their weight be comparing to something like a Quickfire Rapid or Poker?"heavier or lighter" type descriptions won't help you much at all (IMO). You need to try them out, there's no avoiding this.
Are Topre noticeably lighter or heavier then a Cherry keyboard.
Do stickers do anything and are they worth putting on? They seem horrifying to put on.
I lubed the MX browns on my G80 and it does make a difference. They feel more tactile and less scratchy. Ergo clears are commonly lubed just because they can be sticky without it.
I haven't had the FC600C for more than a week. I do like the solid and smooth movement of the Topre stem. I don't care for the mushy feel, though. I'll probably try 55g at some point.
That's really all I intended to communicate ;) It seems like a drop of Krytox would by a huge improvement on Browns. Surprising that it's not more common.
Krytox ain't cheap. Maybe to rich Australians like you where Koalas (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35219.0) grow on trees it's no big deal.
How are you guys getting krytox oil to stay.. it seems like most of it would just roll off down the stem if not in use.
Mixing it with Krytox 205 (or similar variants).That's really all I intended to communicate ;) It seems like a drop of Krytox would by a huge improvement on Browns. Surprising that it's not more common.
Krytox ain't cheap. Maybe to rich Australians like you where Koalas (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35219.0) grow on trees it's no big deal.
How are you guys getting krytox oil to stay.. it seems like most of it would just roll off down the stem if not in use.
How are you guys getting krytox oil to stay.. it seems like most of it would just roll off down the stem if not in use.
Most people who do Krytox do a GPL 103 and GPL 205 mix. Since they're mixed together, the oil stays in place a little better along with the grease.
Mixing it with Krytox 205 (or similar variants).That's really all I intended to communicate ;) It seems like a drop of Krytox would by a huge improvement on Browns. Surprising that it's not more common.
Krytox ain't cheap. Maybe to rich Australians like you where Koalas (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35219.0) grow on trees it's no big deal.
How are you guys getting krytox oil to stay.. it seems like most of it would just roll off down the stem if not in use.
I think by "scratchy", many of us are also referring to perceived stickiness at the same time. A tactile bump can still provide a similar resistance profile while staying smooth, without feeling like it's scratching or sticking.
After I got topre I sold all my mx boards (blue + brown).
**** the haters.
I do have an ergo clear coming soon so I will be able to comment on the specific original ask soon though.....
After that its SSK time and I will have a complete collection!
No one here's h8ing on Topre.. but there do seem to be alotta topre people h8ing on MX..
This shall not do...
right all i'm saying is the line between "scratchy" and "tactile" is that they're the SAME sensation , with the exception that scratchy is LESS pronounced enough to be Tactile.
right all i'm saying is the line between "scratchy" and "tactile" is that they're the SAME sensation , with the exception that scratchy is LESS pronounced enough to be Tactile.
Think of a perfect plastic piston head and a cylinder which becomes slightly narrow in the centre. Pushing and pulling the piston head would have very different properties in an oiled vs non-oiled arrangement. They would both fit the definition of tactile, but one would definitely be perceived as "scratchy" or "sticky".
No perfect vacuum seals for this example. We're talking about keyboard mechanics :)right all i'm saying is the line between "scratchy" and "tactile" is that they're the SAME sensation , with the exception that scratchy is LESS pronounced enough to be Tactile.
Think of a perfect plastic piston head and a cylinder which becomes slightly narrow in the centre. Pushing and pulling the piston head would have very different properties in an oiled vs non-oiled arrangement. They would both fit the definition of tactile, but one would definitely be perceived as "scratchy" or "sticky".
ah.. you can't throw up a description like that without mspaint.. i can picture most of it but how is that tactile, are you pulling against vacuum?
No perfect vacuum seals for this example. We're talking about keyboard mechanics :)right all i'm saying is the line between "scratchy" and "tactile" is that they're the SAME sensation , with the exception that scratchy is LESS pronounced enough to be Tactile.
Think of a perfect plastic piston head and a cylinder which becomes slightly narrow in the centre. Pushing and pulling the piston head would have very different properties in an oiled vs non-oiled arrangement. They would both fit the definition of tactile, but one would definitely be perceived as "scratchy" or "sticky".
ah.. you can't throw up a description like that without mspaint.. i can picture most of it but how is that tactile, are you pulling against vacuum?
It's possible to have a very similar resistance profile, but still feel quite different with and without a lubricant. Something being "tactile" doesn't imply or inherently include "scratchyness" and stick-slip type properties, but doesn't exclude them either.
The "scratchiness" of the tactile switches seems to mainly come from the stem guides. You can feel it on linear switches too, especially those with lighter springs (reds). The tactile bump feels the most scratchy because that is when the peak side-load on the guide occurs. It doesn't seem to come from the friction between the bump on the stem and the leaf spring, which explains why lubing that spot seems to make no difference in the feel of the switch. Lubing the stem guides helps the most.
So by smoothing out the action between the stem and the guide, the tactile bump itself seems to become more obvious. In some ways it reminds me of this Topre. ;)
mechanical != scratchy
I mean mostly harsh bottoming out, and undamped upstroke.
It feels like Cherry is too comfortable with their market position, there's been no innovation or progress in switch design for a very long time. The Cherry landing is simply plastic smashing against plastic, totally un-dampened. Surely they could start adding new models with some minor refinements and tighter tolerances? It would be a clever move considering the growing enthusiast niche.mechanical != scratchy
I mean mostly harsh bottoming out, and undamped upstroke.
Exactly what I thought when I tried some keyboards with Cherry MX switches. Everywhere on the internet everyone was talking about how awesome MX switches were, but no one mentioned the ultra harsh feeling when bottoming out? Weird.
It feels like Cherry is too comfortable with their market position, there's been no innovation or progress in switch design for a very long time. The Cherry landing is simply plastic smashing against plastic, totally un-dampened. Surely they could start adding new models with some minor refinements and tighter tolerances? It would be a clever move considering the growing enthusiast niche.mechanical != scratchy
I mean mostly harsh bottoming out, and undamped upstroke.
Exactly what I thought when I tried some keyboards with Cherry MX switches. Everywhere on the internet everyone was talking about how awesome MX switches were, but no one mentioned the ultra harsh feeling when bottoming out? Weird.
I don't personally understand the HiPro thing at all. Seems like a product that almost nobody really needs or ever wanted. I've also heard that HiPro switches aren't great to type on.It feels like Cherry is too comfortable with their market position, there's been no innovation or progress in switch design for a very long time. The Cherry landing is simply plastic smashing against plastic, totally un-dampened. Surely they could start adding new models with some minor refinements and tighter tolerances? It would be a clever move considering the growing enthusiast niche.mechanical != scratchy
I mean mostly harsh bottoming out, and undamped upstroke.
Exactly what I thought when I tried some keyboards with Cherry MX switches. Everywhere on the internet everyone was talking about how awesome MX switches were, but no one mentioned the ultra harsh feeling when bottoming out? Weird.
I'll drink to that. Cherry's production volume seems to have been bought-out for some time thanks to these gaming and mainstream keyboards. Don't get me wrong; it's great to see "normal" mechanical keyboards in places like NewEgg and even some brick-and-mortar stores.
I wonder if we'll see anything new on the "Alps" front, given Cherry's monopoly on that design and the current shortages. Perhaps we'll see more come out of Matias and the like.
While I am not totally in love with Topre, I hope to see some interesting form factors come out going forward. This new high-profile Topre switch is a sign that they are still doing a little R&D.
I don't personally understand the HiPro thing at all. Seems like a product that almost nobody really needs or ever wanted. I've also heard that HiPro switches aren't great to type on.It feels like Cherry is too comfortable with their market position, there's been no innovation or progress in switch design for a very long time. The Cherry landing is simply plastic smashing against plastic, totally un-dampened. Surely they could start adding new models with some minor refinements and tighter tolerances? It would be a clever move considering the growing enthusiast niche.mechanical != scratchy
I mean mostly harsh bottoming out, and undamped upstroke.
Exactly what I thought when I tried some keyboards with Cherry MX switches. Everywhere on the internet everyone was talking about how awesome MX switches were, but no one mentioned the ultra harsh feeling when bottoming out? Weird.
I'll drink to that. Cherry's production volume seems to have been bought-out for some time thanks to these gaming and mainstream keyboards. Don't get me wrong; it's great to see "normal" mechanical keyboards in places like NewEgg and even some brick-and-mortar stores.
I wonder if we'll see anything new on the "Alps" front, given Cherry's monopoly on that design and the current shortages. Perhaps we'll see more come out of Matias and the like.
While I am not totally in love with Topre, I hope to see some interesting form factors come out going forward. This new high-profile Topre switch is a sign that they are still doing a little R&D.
It seems like Topre would see much better success in embracing Bluetooth as an option across their range, PBT spacebars, new designs in 60%ish form factors, lower profile "modern" keys that are still sculpted, etc. Topre is also guilty of being fairly complacent with their position and not really innovating (imo).
I'd love to see more companies going for minimal, lower-profile designs that still retain decent typing ergonomics. Most outsiders see our keyboards as "old fashioned" looking or "retro". I think chiclet keys are a terrible choice, but it couldn't hurt to build some leaner/meaner looking models.
mainstream japanese engineers are obsessed with uniformity/ perfection.. So thats why pbt spacebars are a no-no. they just can't make straight ones..
I wish they'd address this. Having the fairly refined sounding <thock thock thock> Topre PBT's interrupted by the all too familiar (cheap sounding) ABS spacebar is a bit jarring :)
mainstream japanese engineers are obsessed with uniformity/ perfection.. So thats why pbt spacebars are a no-no. they just can't make straight ones..
If imsto can make a straight PBT bar, so can the Japanese. Maybe they just don't see it as an important issue.
I wish they'd address this. Having the fairly refined sounding <thock thock thock> Topre PBT's interrupted by the all too familiar (cheap sounding) ABS spacebar is a bit jarring :)
They should also consider improving the noisy space bar design and stabilizers while they're at it. Spacebar is the worst part of the Topre typing experience (imo).
Man I hate reading this forum on Tapatalk, cuz then I end up seeing TP's posts, and that makes me sad.
There's a common Internet idiom about trolls and feeding them. Probably a good idea to heed that one. Anybody who's been here for more than a few days has got him pegged, so just ignore him, and we'll all thank you for it :-)
Okay. Has anyone weighed their Topre 10keyless or HHKB? What would their weight be comparing to something like a Quickfire Rapid or Poker?
Are Topre noticeably lighter or heavier then a Cherry keyboard.
mechanical != scratchy
I mean mostly harsh bottoming out, and undamped upstroke.
Exactly what I thought when I tried some keyboards with Cherry MX switches. Everywhere on the internet everyone was talking about how awesome MX switches were, but no one mentioned the ultra harsh feeling when bottoming out? Weird.
It's a bug :)mechanical != scratchy
I mean mostly harsh bottoming out, and undamped upstroke.
Exactly what I thought when I tried some keyboards with Cherry MX switches. Everywhere on the internet everyone was talking about how awesome MX switches were, but no one mentioned the ultra harsh feeling when bottoming out? Weird.
Maybe that's why so many people are obsessed with not bottoming out. It is mentioned from time to time, but I don't think it's a bug—rather a feature. It's the same with generic ALPS clones and most vintage switches. Solutions such as dampened Matias ALPS are sometimes considered mushy.
It's a bug :)mechanical != scratchy
I mean mostly harsh bottoming out, and undamped upstroke.
Exactly what I thought when I tried some keyboards with Cherry MX switches. Everywhere on the internet everyone was talking about how awesome MX switches were, but no one mentioned the ultra harsh feeling when bottoming out? Weird.
Maybe that's why so many people are obsessed with not bottoming out. It is mentioned from time to time, but I don't think it's a bug—rather a feature. It's the same with generic ALPS clones and most vintage switches. Solutions such as dampened Matias ALPS are sometimes considered mushy.
Personally the feel between the Topre I tried, albeit rather briefly but right next to a rubber dome Logitech board, felt too similar to justify the cost. Now as I charge my flame shield I will only say that I'm a Cherry man because 1)Cherry switches feel drastically different than the crappy boards I've typed on my whole life 2)They come in many flavors so you can always switch it up and get completely different feels Cherry to Cherry 3)They are just hands down easier to mod and tinker with and I am a big fan of that customization component. I wouldn't buy a Topre without trying one first to make absolutely sure your $300 is going where you want it to. If you try it and love it, more power to you.
Let me start by saying I'm a keyboard enthusiast and anyone who is a GH member is also. That being said I have owned and tried my fair share of keyboards. Topre switch keyboards seem to generate a lot of opinions, pros and cons. But only one that is important to me and anyone considering one is their own, by using one and seeing if it is right you. I purchased a HHKB Pro 2 and found that I prefer the Topre based switches the most. I felt that the HHKB would be easy to sell if I didn't like it, but I do so much that I got a Reaforce 87u 55g. Between the the two is what I use 95% of the time, the 87u for desktop use and HHKB for my laptop. I still prefer the Cherry MX based keyboards for gaming use. In my opinion any enthusiast owes it to themselves to find out. In my case I would have saved a bunch of money if had earlier in my quest for my perfect keyboard(s). But I have no regrets, some love them and some don't but you don't have much lose to find out in my opinion.
Yes, I agree, you have to buy multiple keyboards to figure out what you like.
HHKB Pro and RealForce cost around $270 at this time, due to Yen/Dollar exchange rate.
$400 HHKB Pro is the Type-S, which is the silent version. Also Silent RealForce is more expensive as well.
I dunno why, I guess the silent switches cost more to manufacture.
Great now after reading this thread through I not only want to try ergo clears but now I want to try a topre board!
What's the difference from the HHKB and the Realforce? Does it have something to do with how heavy it is? What makes some of them cost 400 500 bucks?
Switches on the HHKB aren't PCB mounted, rather the upper housing of the switch is all moulded as one piece.The HHKB's design with its low weight and small size is why I got it, for on the go use with laptops nothing comes close. I agree that plate mounted is better, for desktop use where size and weight doesn't matter the 87u 55g is my choice.
I know what you mean though, and I prefer the metal plate in the Realforce too :)Show Image(http://deskthority.net/w/images/7/74/Topre_HHKB_Switch.png)
Isn't it the general(keyword) consensus that ergo clears are the best MX switch?
M.... as far as "tactile" cherry mx goes, people usually settle on MX clears because it maintains the high level of tactility like that of MX blue, without the "sharp" click sound.
mx brown doesn't really feel like tactile.. unlubed it feels like a grain of sand stuck in a cherry mx-red switch..
once you lube the brown, it feels like a smoothed out grain of sand, so kind of like "a slow spot" of resistance near the actuation point,
Isn't it the general(keyword) consensus that ergo clears are the best MX switch?
Isn't it the general(keyword) consensus that ergo clears are the best MX switch?
lolno. A lot of people love them, but there's nothing even close to a consensus. Arguing about switch preference is the raison d'etre of the forum. ;D
All these switch threads come down to a few objective descriptions of weight, tactile vs linear, etc., a lot of arguing and assertions about preference, and tp4tissue trolling Topre people.
Ultimately you gotta catch em all to know what's best for you.Show Image(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6ddtrmagn1r33pylo1_400.jpg)
Lol! I only have a full keyboard of Ergo-clears and a Topre to own/try out... Ergo-clear in the progress and I'm too hobo for Topre just yet.
If you don't get one by the time I get to Orlando, I'll buy one and let you borrow it for a week :P
Isn't it the general(keyword) consensus that ergo clears are the best MX switch?
lolno. A lot of people love them, but there's nothing even close to a consensus. Arguing about switch preference is the raison d'etre of the forum. ;D
All these switch threads come down to a few objective descriptions of weight, tactile vs linear, etc., a lot of arguing and assertions about preference, and tp4tissue trolling Topre people.
Ultimately you gotta catch em all to know what's best for you.Show Image(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6ddtrmagn1r33pylo1_400.jpg)
If you don't get one by the time I get to Orlando, I'll buy one and let you borrow it for a week :PShow Image(http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww174/mzstar/doves-flying-to-light.gif)
That 660C??? I know how much you love those 60%/like 60% layout :P I'm so tempted to rob my neighborhood and buy one of those :P
Yes, but I'm going to be patient and wait until there's a white or gray version with blanks (the laser edged caps are meh). The only question left is will I sell my MX boards and go all Topre after I get it :p
Yes, but I'm going to be patient and wait until there's a white or gray version with blanks (the laser edged caps are meh). The only question left is will I sell my MX boards and go all Topre after I get it :p
I'm actually kind of scared I might end up like that too... and ma'am, like always, I love your taste. White/grey version is definitely what I would go with too. Worst case with MX, I'll probably at least keep my Reds just for gaming though :P
I also haven't tried any captivate switches but I get the feeling I'll like 55g over 45g. Hopefully they'll release a 55g.
Get an ergo dox... you won't ever have to look at topre until they make an ergodox topre, which is 3-5 years out.
I've decided never to buy another staggered layout keyboard.. :D
The only question left is will I sell my MX boards and go all Topre after I get it :p
Ergodox sucks for gaming unless you plan to use only one hand.With the amount of keys accessible to the one hand (along with the ability to have numerous layered keys), I don't see why you'd even want to use the other side of the keyboard.
Makes sense to me; I've always said that you should buy an HHKB for it's portability and layout. The Topre switches are just a bonus ;)oh well then let me buy a hhk-lite and trade you for a typeS :D
Makes sense to me; I've always said that you should buy an HHKB for it's portability and layout. The Topre switches are just a bonus ;)oh well then let me buy a hhk-lite and trade you for a typeS :D
Got my KMAC with ergo clears. It feels very mechanical and grainy when the contact happens. I really like it. I still love topre too. After I buy an SSK I will have the holy trinity complete!
Got my KMAC with ergo clears. It feels very mechanical and grainy when the contact happens. I really like it. I still love topre too. After I buy an SSK I will have the holy trinity complete!
You forgot Alps.
Ergodox sucks for gaming unless you plan to use only one hand.
The only reason Topre folk try to spread the gospel is because Topre is honestly that much better than Cherry and we want others to know. In every way better.no.
The only reason Topre folk try to spread the gospel is because Topre is honestly that much better than Cherry and we want others to know. In every way better.no.
Agreed, my Type-S space has far less rattle to it. They've also added those little landing pads on the HHKB spacebar. You'd need to slam it fairly hard to contact them, but it's a nice touch which isn't on the RF boards.
Part of the issue on the RF is that the stabilizer tabs don't lock in firmly enough. If you use something like the thick EK "mech lube" on these it temporarily resolves much of the spacebar noise.
fwiw, I haven't touched a Cherry board since last year. I have blues, browns and reds. It's like typing on gravel after switching to Topre switches.)
fwiw, I haven't touched a Cherry board since last year. I have blues, browns and reds. It's like typing on gravel after switching to Topre switches.)
Are your Cherry boards lubed? Springs & stems? If so what lube did you use for each? I'm asking because I completely agree that unlubed Cherry switches feel like typing on gravel, but I don't feel this way if they're properly lubed :)
There are some people that just don't care for Topre switches, I have seen a few Leo F660C in the classifieds already, saying Topre was not their cup of tea I presume they were first time Topre buyers. Different strokes for different folks! Some people like to float the actuation point when typing or gaming with Cherry MX switches, with Topre I find that hard to do without bottoming out. But everyone has a favorite type of switch to know ALL have to be experienced.fwiw, I haven't touched a Cherry board since last year. I have blues, browns and reds. It's like typing on gravel after switching to Topre switches.)
Are your Cherry boards lubed? Springs & stems? If so what lube did you use for each? I'm asking because I completely agree that unlubed Cherry switches feel like typing on gravel, but I don't feel this way if they're properly lubed :)
No, I've not lubed them. I've tried landing pads on a CM brown board. But they didn't feel right, so I took them off.
Don't get me wrong. Cherry MX switches are workhorses. I've used them for years and was very happy with them until I got a Topre board. Most guys coming from a membrane board would think they've 'arrived' at keyboard heaven with Cherry. But...that's only because they haven't used a Topre board. And honestly, if you don't make your living on your keyboard, a Topre board is a lot of money. An extravagance. If I didn't make my living on my keyboard, it would be hard to justify the cost. You can get an awesome Cherry board for half the cost.
However, cost aside, Topre switches make Cherry feel like toys. Obviously that's my personal preference. I know there are guys that would take Cherry over Topre any day in the week. Great. Whatever you like is what is best for you. But my opinion is that Topre switches are more refined, better engineered, have a softer landing, and sound a lot better than Cherry anything.
With that said, I haven't tried Clears or Blacks. I like tactility, so I'd lean toward the Clears. Maybe I don't know what I'm missing. I'm always open to change and am nobody's fanboy. But at this point in my 20+ years making a living on my keyboard in IT and IS, I've never found anything that can hold a candle to my Topre boards. Cherry doesn't even come close given their current selection of switches.
Germans make good stuff. Next year could be different. My allegiance is to the best switch, cost aside. The beauty of a free market is competition. That keeps innovation alive! If Cherry reengineers their switches and takes the market by storm next year, you might be calling me a Cherry fanboy. :p
There are some people that just don't care for Topre switches, I have seen a few Leo F660C in the classifieds already, saying Topre was not their cup of tea I presume they were first time Topre buyers. Different strokes for different folks! Some people like to float the actuation point when typing or gaming with Cherry MX switches, with Topre I find that hard to do without bottoming out. But everyone has a favorite type of switch to know ALL have to be experienced.
I have had some experience with the Leopold, and can say it's not the ideal Topre experience (imho).
Also, the fact that it doesn't use standard topre mods (and profile) is one of the bigger turn-offs.
Agreed, my Type-S space has far less rattle to it. They've also added those little landing pads on the HHKB spacebar. You'd need to slam it fairly hard to contact them, but it's a nice touch which isn't on the RF boards.
Part of the issue on the RF is that the stabilizer tabs don't lock in firmly enough. If you use something like the thick EK "mech lube" on these it temporarily resolves much of the spacebar noise.
Sorry everybody. I've been dealing with some stuff at home and haven't been here for a few weeks.
My 87U silent spacebar drives me nuts. I have to put Mechlube in it constantly so I don't have to listen to it. It sounds as bad or worse than this...
I tried landing pads and Mechlube. Nothing has fixed the issue. However, my 87U 55g uni and HHKB Pro2 non-silent have no problems. (Love my 55g RF btw. Hardly touch my HHKB Pro2. I just use it for a change in my day. fwiw, I haven't touched a Cherry board since last year. I have blues, browns and reds. It's like typing on gravel after switching to Topre switches.)
In fact, my 87U variable silent spacebar was so bad, I gave it to my son. He's in college, so obviously it didn't go to waste. (What college kid would complain about an $310 keyboard.) But had I kept it, I would've send it back to EK. The spacebar was that bad.
However, I typed a bit on the 87U variable silent today. I have to say, it was a nice change. Crap...looks like I'll have to buy another variable-silent. It feels sooooo good!
Topre is a more refined experience. Ergo clears are the closest cherry switch to topre....but topre bests it. Put it this way...I have tried nearly every switch under the sun and I keep coming back to topre.Exactly.
I'm nearly finished my ergo-clears KBT Pure project that's been all Korean'd up with stickers, lube, etc. Any switches that I've tested so far simply can't compare to my Realforce 87U silent or other Topre keyboards. This maxed-out Pure will end up for sale like everything else has. I actually find myself getting quite attached to my Realforce board because it works so damn well for work.
Even if you give MX switches the best possible configuration, Topre is still in a different league entirely. These beautiful Korean keyboards seem pretty pointless (to me) because they're so flawless, yet stuck with the switches used in $40 gaming keyboards. Perfect Alu cases, plates, lube, and stickers really just amounts to lipstick on a pig when the very core of the typing experience is still the same cheapo MX switch. It's form over function.
Topre is a level of refinement and quality that will never be possible with MX, unless they release an entirely redesigned switch type. You really should test a Realforce kb for a least a month. It might save you from wasting your time and money.
I have not tried the F660C but it should offer a similar feel of RF or HHKB, but to me a Realforce TKL is pretty much the standard & HHKB is the ideal 60% so far as Topre switch keyboards so far.
I have had some experience with the Leopold, and can say it's not the ideal Topre experience (imho).
Also, the fact that it doesn't use standard topre mods (and profile) is one of the bigger turn-offs.
There are only 2 other Topre boards out right now, HHKB and Realforce. You can't really say something is "standard" or "ideal" when there is such a small pool to choose from. All 3 have different switch feel (even with the same switch weight), different size and layout, and different construction. None of these should be considered the de facto, until there are a lot more choices and they all lean towards the same characteristics.
I have not tried the F660C but it should offer a similar feel of RF or HHKB, but to me a Realforce TKL is pretty much the standard & HHKB is the ideal 60% so far as Topre switch keyboards so far.
What I'm saying is the US retail market has only what EK has and the FC660C seems well received and an alternate Topre choice other than RF or HHKB to where it was said that " its not the ideal Topre exprience". It seems like good alternative choice to me and have more Topre options.I have not tried the F660C but it should offer a similar feel of RF or HHKB, but to me a Realforce TKL is pretty much the standard & HHKB is the ideal 60% so far as Topre switch keyboards so far.
I don't see how you can even make that claim, as up until the FC660C, the two boards you mentioned were the only Topre boards available in the US retail market. I realize there are other Topre boards available, but they're kind of a pain to get a hold of, and the amount of units sold is probably far less than the RF or HHKB.
I have had some experience with the Leopold, and can say it's not the ideal Topre experience (imho).
Also, the fact that it doesn't use standard topre mods (and profile) is one of the bigger turn-offs.
There are only 2 other Topre boards out right now, HHKB and Realforce. You can't really say something is "standard" or "ideal" when there is such a small pool to choose from. All 3 have different switch feel (even with the same switch weight), different size and layout, and different construction. None of these should be considered the de facto, until there are a lot more choices and they all lean towards the same characteristics.
I have not tried the F660C but it should offer a similar feel of RF or HHKB, but to me a Realforce TKL is pretty much the standard & HHKB is the ideal 60% so far as Topre switch keyboards so far.
I don't see how you can even make that claim, as up until the FC660C, the two boards you mentioned were the only Topre boards available in the US retail market. I realize there are other Topre boards available, but they're kind of a pain to get a hold of, and the amount of units sold is probably far less than the RF or HHKB.
A not uncommon conclusion to the same journey. A few forum searches will find plenty of FS posts where people are ditching their crap, including Korean customs because they "really only use their HHKB/Realforce". There's far fewer shifting the other direction within the realm of workhorse "getting **** done" keyboards. Collecting keycaps and custom kb projects are kind of a separate thing.
I have gone through the same journey, tried every single switch I could possibly try, and ended up back at Topre. While it may be a matter of personal opinion on what switch is better/best, the many people that use Topre are surely not delusional.
You can use the argument that topre is a rubber dome, and sure, technically yes it is. Does that make it the same as your scissor switch or other cheap rubber domes? Most certainly not. Any argument based on this, is one based on pure ignorance.
But let's get real here; we ARE having this discussion with tp4, after all.....
If I could time travel back and give advice to myself, I'd simply say: "Stick with the 87U-silent because you'll grow to enjoy it more than any man should enjoy his keyboard. Don't waste your time and money hoping some magic sauce and love will fix MX switches".
A not uncommon conclusion to the same journey. A few forum searches will find plenty of FS posts where people are ditching their crap, including Korean customs because they "really only use their HHKB/Realforce". There's far fewer shifting the other direction within the realm of workhorse "getting **** done" keyboards. Collecting keycaps and custom kb projects are kind of a separate thing.
I have gone through the same journey, tried every single switch I could possibly try, and ended up back at Topre. While it may be a matter of personal opinion on what switch is better/best, the many people that use Topre are surely not delusional.
You can use the argument that topre is a rubber dome, and sure, technically yes it is. Does that make it the same as your scissor switch or other cheap rubber domes? Most certainly not. Any argument based on this, is one based on pure ignorance.
But let's get real here; we ARE having this discussion with tp4, after all.....
If I could time travel back and give advice to myself, I'd simply say: "Stick with the 87U-silent because you'll grow to enjoy it more than any man should enjoy his keyboard. Don't waste your time and money hoping some magic sauce and love will fix MX switches".
Can you mod topre to be silent?
the topre is better to me by a little bit than clears. I was wondering if someone could actually explain how what is really a rubber dome feels so darn good. also how no other company has been able to duplicate that?
Also, Topre's are patented so.Which kind of means you can still make it and sell it in China, so I'm kinda wondering why nobody there tried to copy a Topre switch yet. Topre keyboards for 30$+shipping, what would you say to that :D
Also, Topre's are patented so.Which kind of means you can still make it and sell it in China, so I'm kinda wondering why nobody there tried to copy a Topre switch yet. Topre keyboards for 30$+shipping, what would you say to that :D
Also, Topre's are patented so.Which kind of means you can still make it and sell it in China, so I'm kinda wondering why nobody there tried to copy a Topre switch yet. Topre keyboards for 30$+shipping, what would you say to that :D
So no wonder people are making these threads to get as much information as possible, eh?
Really? I can't imagine that. Adding production costs (not materials but machines, workers etc.), profit margin for the production company, profit margin for the seller (and often another seller) I highly doubt the production company has higher costs than 30$ for only the materials given the amounts in which they buy that stuff...
I think the actual cost of the materials is much higher than $30, so I'd say that's highly unlikely.
Really? I can't imagine that. Adding production costs (not materials but machines, workers etc.), profit margin for the production company, profit margin for the seller (and often another seller) I highly doubt the production company has higher costs than 30$ for only the materials given the amounts in which they buy that stuff...
I think the actual cost of the materials is much higher than $30, so I'd say that's highly unlikely.
guys, I am sorry. I actually get it now. it is like saying a lp560 and a yaris are both cars. one has higher performance than the other regardless.
on that note, to the op. they are both the top of the line. the only way you could know is if you try them. what other people like or dislike does not apply to you personally. everyone is an individual.
I don't know what to do with this feel.
After lubing my 65g MX Clears, I've come to the realization that they indeed feel similar to Topre. I don't know what to do with this feel.
After lubing my 65g MX Clears, I've come to the realization that they indeed feel similar to Topre. I don't know what to do with this feel.
Oh goodie. It's been so long since I've used clears that I forgot what they feel like. Made a good choice on my ErgoDox then.
After lubing my 65g MX Clears, I've come to the realization that they indeed feel similar to Topre. I don't know what to do with this feel.
Oh goodie. It's been so long since I've used clears that I forgot what they feel like. Made a good choice on my ErgoDox then.
I would have to disagree and state that both clears and ergo clears feel nothing like Topre. While they are probably my favorite Cherry switches, they do feel much more mechanical. The 45g Topre is mediocre in my opinion, but the 55g feels like some sort of futuristic alien technology. I feel like it would be used in a spaceship to type in coordinates for other galaxies.
Ergo-clear and Topre are not comparable since they feel nothing alike. Obviously then, it's all down to preference.
/thread
Maybe I'll get adventurous and lube them, or at least one or two switches to try out, but why fix something that isn't broken? Don't get me wrong, I think ergo clears feel great, just completely different from 45g and 55g Topres.
After lubing my 65g MX Clears, I've come to the realization that they indeed feel similar to Topre. I don't know what to do with this feel."Enjoy Your Feeling"... sorry
nah. I meant in regard to topre being a rubber dome. sure, it is a rubber dome but there are different levels of performance. even amongst rubber domes. hence, the analogy that they are both cars. I was just baffled that a rubber dome could be so good. it is not the technology, it is the quality. it just so happens that most rubber domes are cheaply made and then one is awesome.
tp4, unless you were insinuating that there is not that big a difference. I feel there surely is.
Pretty sure you don't want anything organic.
I want to take on a project of turning my plate mounted Filco Minila browns into ergo clears. Where can I get the necessary materials?
Hmm, I found a youtube video that walks you through it. I'm sure there's a post on here about how to get the parts. If anyone runs across it; can they reply with the link? I didn't find it in the (albeit quick) search.
I want to take on a project of turning my plate mounted Filco Minila browns into ergo clears. Where can I get the necessary materials?
Hmm, I found a youtube video that walks you through it. I'm sure there's a post on here about how to get the parts. If anyone runs across it; can they reply with the link? I didn't find it in the (albeit quick) search.
MechanicalKeyboards.com for the Clears, Originitave for the springs, Geekhackers store for the Krytox. You'll also need a decent soldering iron, desoldering wick or pump, and something to brush the Krytox on with. Victorinox Multi-Tool oil for the springs is optional and usually is only found for a decent price on eBay.