Ergo Clear vs Topre

[L4yercake]

For me I was able to get more of a fluid movement out of a CherryMX board then a Topre. That was my experience in FPS games.

Now that gaming has slowed down for me I'm planning to get a Realforce.

I'm just offering what I thought of the two.

[Michael]

Never made a topre hate comment.. I've only made H8 topre crowd comments..

i stand firm that I do not hate topre.. I'm saying it right now.. if you choose to believe otherwise or take what i've said out of context that's up to you..

I feel that topre feels very similar to rubber dome, and superior in engineering.


And yes, I see you guys with your topre circle jerks all the time.. topre appreciation thread? Laughable..


You're the ones who bring nothing but biased opinions into the discussion..

I stick with primarily neutral descriptions..


I add in my distaste for the Topre agenda, simply because i wouldn't want to see anyone making a bad decision when they're under the influence of your flak.

Going back through threads and pasting all of them would take more time than you are worth.


'Topre appreciation thread...' is simply people that enjoy their boards and want to discuss it. It's clear you hate people enjoying things, since you seem so ready to pounce on anyone doing so.


Where in this discussion or any have I been biased? I have literally tried every switch. And only after that long journey, did I decide topre was the best for me.




The only 'flak' here, has been you're tired old rhetoric, over and over.

[tp4tissue]

Never made a topre hate comment.. I've only made H8 topre crowd comments..

i stand firm that I do not hate topre.. I'm saying it right now.. if you choose to believe otherwise or take what i've said out of context that's up to you..

I feel that topre feels very similar to rubber dome, and superior in engineering.


And yes, I see you guys with your topre circle jerks all the time.. topre appreciation thread? Laughable..


You're the ones who bring nothing but biased opinions into the discussion..

I stick with primarily neutral descriptions..


I add in my distaste for the Topre agenda, simply because i wouldn't want to see anyone making a bad decision when they're under the influence of your flak.

Going back through threads and pasting all of them would take more time than you are worth.


'Topre appreciation thread...' is simply people that enjoy their boards and want to discuss it. It's clear you hate people enjoying things, since you seem so ready to pounce on anyone doing so.


Where in this discussion or any have I been biased? I have literally tried every switch. And only after that long journey, did I decide topre was the best for me.




The only 'flak' here, has been you're tired old rhetoric, over and over.

I repeat myself, because you're ears are near deaf due to the loud fapping noises you guys make every time you post in your circle jerk topre appreciation thread..

What new information can be said about a keyswitch..It's an end game toy.. Everything I've posted "prior" to our argument was completely neutral.. I described what the switch was like.. and stopped there

It was YOU GUYS who added "Derrr Dis is way better than MX"

THAT is when I lose it...

[Michael]

THAT is when I lose it...

Sounds like you are mad, bro.

[tp4tissue]

THAT is when I lose it...

Sounds like you are mad, bro.

really?, that's all you got..

Pathetic.

[Michael]

THAT is when I lose it...

Sounds like you are mad, bro.

really?, that's all you got..

Pathetic.

Awwww.....he's mad.

[tp4tissue]

THAT is when I lose it...

Sounds like you are mad, bro.

really?, that's all you got..

Pathetic.

Awwww.....he's mad.

LOL... so now you turn into the lil' 4chan whiny kid who can't win arguments...

You lack conviction friend..

[L4yercake]

THAT is when I lose it...

Sounds like you are mad, bro.

really?, that's all you got..

Pathetic.

Well this is a forum.  A place where people come to express opinions and views on certain topics.

I think the idea behind CherryMX < Topre is the fact that its an opinion and if they want to voice that, then they can.

I agree it can get a little excessive at times. But apparently you take it as a personal offensive every time someone mentions it. You really shouldn't because.....


....

A place where people come to express opinions and views on certain topics.

A place where people come to express opinions and views on certain topics.

A place where people come to express opinions and views on certain topics.


SmallFry

[Michael]

LOL... so now you turn into the lil' 4chan whiny kid who can't win arguments...

You lack conviction friend..

Getting you mad gave me an automatic victory.

[quickcrx702]

Honestly, I got a 55g first and fell in love.  Then I got a 45g and was thoroughly underwhelmed, probably because of the high expectations I had from being so impressed by the 55g.  Had I bought the 45g first, I would have stopped there and might feel the same way tp4 does.  Either way it's all subjective.  Don't take anyone's opinion as gospel.  I read all kinds of stuff about how MX reds are the best thing EVAR... but I think they feel like cheap toys.  The only way to know is for YOU to try.

[tp4tissue]

THAT is when I lose it...

Sounds like you are mad, bro.

really?, that's all you got..

Pathetic.

Well this is a forum.  A place where people come to express opinions and views on certain topics.

I think the idea behind CherryMX < Topre is the fact that its an opinion and if they want to voice that, then they can.

I agree it can get a little excessive at times. But apparently you take it as a personal offensive every time someone mentions it. You really shouldn't because.....


....

A place where people come to express opinions and views on certain topics.

A place where people come to express opinions and views on certain topics.

A place where people come to express opinions and views on certain topics.


SmallFry

I don't like it when TOPRE circle-jerker-s circle jerk all over new members. with their poisonous putrid bile.

[tp4tissue]

Honestly, I got a 55g first and fell in love.  Then I got a 45g and was thoroughly underwhelmed, probably because of the high expectations I had from being so impressed by the 55g.  Had I bought the 45g first, I would have stopped there and might feel the same way tp4 does.  Either way it's all subjective.  Don't take anyone's opinion as gospel.  I read all kinds of stuff about how MX reds are the best thing EVAR... but I think they feel like cheap toys.  The only way to know is for YOU to try.

There you go.. see... THIS I agree with.. he likes topre... FINE... Don't tell people it's the Jesus switch...

Or I'll come and bring some real bible down on you.

[Trev]

Over 3200 tp4 posts, the majority these he's foaming at the mouth because people are discussing their favourite keyboard/key-switch on a keyboard forum. I think it's safe to assume he's a bit special.

I'd love to hear what his medication-stack and dosages are like.

[Michael]

Over 3200 tp4 posts, the majority these he's foaming at the mouth because people are discussing their favourite keyboard/key-switch on a keyboard forum. I think it's safe to assume he's a bit special.

I'd love to hear what his medication-stack and dosages are like.

There was a discussion somewhere about him being f'd in the head, that he actually started. Forgot where that went. But you are pretty spot-on.

[tp4tissue]

Over 3200 tp4 posts, the majority these he's foaming at the mouth because people are discussing their favourite keyboard/key-switch on a keyboard forum. I think it's safe to assume he's a bit special.

I'd love to hear what his medication-stack and dosages are like.

There was a discussion somewhere about him being f'd in the head, that he actually started. Forgot where that went. But you are pretty spot-on.

That was from when i felt completely placated towards everything..

I didn't find life "hopeless" in the sad sense..

Rather

I found life "purposeless" in that the only goal was to find "purpose"..

[tp4tissue]

Now, I don't deny that there could be something wrong with me..

Perhaps I should take medicine to be more complacent and superficial like everyone else.


I chose not to, after a few conversations with my math friends who also wrestle with the same problem, but they cope better by doing copious amounts of math.

[Michael]

That was from when i felt completely placated towards everything..

I didn't find life "hopeless" in the sad sense..

Rather

I found life "purposeless" in that the only goal was to find "purpose"..

So I guess you decided that trying to make other people miserable was your new-found sense of 'purpose'. Got it.

[tp4tissue]

That was from when i felt completely placated towards everything..

I didn't find life "hopeless" in the sad sense..

Rather

I found life "purposeless" in that the only goal was to find "purpose"..

So I guess you decided that trying to make other people miserable was your new-found sense of 'purpose'. Got it.

So you admit I make you feel miserable?

That was not my intention.. but you only embarrass yourself with your half-thoughts..

[Michael]

So you admit I make you feel miserable?

That was not my intention.. but you only embarrass yourself with your half-thoughts..

Note that I said 'trying'.


My thoughts and explanations are 'full', not half. Unlike your mindless ramblings.

[sth]

OH MY GOD YOU GUYS SHUT UP AND SMOKE WEED

[tp4tissue]

OH MY GOD YOU GUYS SHUT UP AND SMOKE WEED

Bro cap can't stop loving me with his words.. Make him stop. sth.

[nubbinator]

OH MY GOD YOU GUYS SHUT UP AND SMOKE WEED

You, you I like.

[HolidaySHRIMP]

After I got topre I sold all my mx boards (blue + brown).

**** the haters.

I do have an ergo clear coming soon so I will be able to comment on the specific original ask soon though.....

After that its SSK time and I will have a complete collection!

[tp4tissue]

After I got topre I sold all my mx boards (blue + brown).

**** the haters.

I do have an ergo clear coming soon so I will be able to comment on the specific original ask soon though.....

After that its SSK time and I will have a complete collection!

No one here's h8ing on Topre.. but there do seem to be alotta topre people h8ing on MX..

This shall not do...

[TheQsanity]

You guys went way off topic.
ErgoClears are nice. I don't know what to say about Topre though.
Blues are bad for gaming.

[tp4tissue]

You guys went way off topic.
ErgoClears are nice. I don't know what to say about Topre though.
Blues are bad for gaming.

Bro cap and caustin have a vendetta against me for losing too many arguments to me.. 

I can do fine with blues.. streetfighter might be a problem, but 3s is fine, only sf4.

[tjcaustin]

You guys went way off topic.
ErgoClears are nice. I don't know what to say about Topre though.
Blues are bad for gaming.

Bro cap and caustin have a vendetta against me for losing too many arguments to me.. 

I can do fine with blues.. streetfighter might be a problem, but 3s is fine, only sf4.

Boring. 0/10 would not care

[Michael]

Bro cap and caustin have a vendetta against me for losing too many arguments to me.. 

I don't have a vendetta against you. In fact, I find it quite entertaining as to just how delusional you are.




But back on topic:


Tried Ergo Clears - Topre still felt better, so here we are.

[Trev]

Bro cap and caustin have a vendetta against me for losing too many arguments to me.. 

I don't have a vendetta against you. In fact, I find it quite entertaining as to just how delusional you are.



But back on topic:


Tried Ergo Clears - Topre still felt better, so here we are.

I'd still like to try out a heavy board with plate + ergo clears  + Krytox mix. I really like putting together keyboards, so perhaps there's a future project in that

[Michael]

I'd still like to try out a heavy board with plate + ergo clears  + Krytox mix. I really like putting together keyboards, so perhaps there's a future project in that

I had an LZ-S that I went all-out with. Ergo-clears, stickers, Krytox 205+103 mix, 62g gold springs. It felt nice, but quite honestly, just was not impressed. 55g Topre just felt perfect to me, and I never looked back.


I swap between the HHKB Type-S at work, and the 55g RF at home for gaming and other stuff. While I like the heaviness of the 55g for gaming, the 45g silent switches just feel right for everything else. And the audible feedback from them is satisfying.


I wouldn't really go back to MX as I have pretty much delved into almost every possible configuration, and was just never satisfied with any of it.

[davkol]

I'm looking for my next keyboard, and I can't decide between Ergo Clear and Topre. I have no way of trying out either, so I want to see some opinions here. Do you prefer Ergo Clears or Topre? Can you guys also tell me which weight you liked the most on both i.e. 55g uniform Topre or Korean 62g Ergo Clear.

Thanks!

I think you're asking the wrong question. Most of us don't use individual switches, but whole keyboards with them. All I want is an open-source ergonomic keyboard. This won't happen anytime soon in case of Topre.

If I could choose between Topre and Cherry MX for my ErgoDox, I'd probably go the Topre way because of softer landing—all Cherry MX switches feel ”a bit too mechanical“ to me.

[Trev]

I'm looking for my next keyboard, and I can't decide between Ergo Clear and Topre. I have no way of trying out either, so I want to see some opinions here. Do you prefer Ergo Clears or Topre? Can you guys also tell me which weight you liked the most on both i.e. 55g uniform Topre or Korean 62g Ergo Clear.

Thanks!

I think you're asking the wrong question. Most of us don't use individual switches, but whole keyboards with them. All I want is an open-source ergonomic keyboard. This won't happen anytime soon in case of Topre.

If I could choose between Topre and Cherry MX for my ErgoDox, I'd probably go the Topre way because of softer landing—all Cherry MX switches feel ”a bit too mechanical“ to me.

Re: that "mechanical" feeling. It always surprises me that people can use something like Cherry MX Browns or Reds without lube. Wouldn't Krytox make these feel better (less scratchy)?

[davkol]

mechanical != scratchy

I mean mostly harsh bottoming out, and undamped upstroke.

[nubbinator]

I'd still like to try out a heavy board with plate + ergo clears  + Krytox mix. I really like putting together keyboards, so perhaps there's a future project in that

If you didn't live all the way down in Australia, I'd offer to send you my some 62g and 65g springs and my GH60 when I'm done so you could take it for a spin since it will have Krytox lubed Clears, stickers, and Victorinox oiled/lubed 67g springs.  I really like my modded RK-9000, but it needs a little refining. 

It's definitely a project worth trying at the very least and it's a lot of fun in spite of how time intensive it is.

[Trev]

I'd still like to try out a heavy board with plate + ergo clears  + Krytox mix. I really like putting together keyboards, so perhaps there's a future project in that

If you didn't live all the way down in Australia, I'd offer to send you my some 62g and 65g springs and my GH60 when I'm done so you could take it for a spin since it will have Krytox lubed Clears, stickers, and Victorinox oiled/lubed 67g springs.  I really like my modded RK-9000, but it needs a little refining. 

It's definitely a project worth trying at the very least and it's a lot of fun in spite of how time intensive it is.

That's kind of you, thanks. I'll eventually build one, it's kind of inevitable. I'd be interested in a KMAC Mini kit if they were a bit cheaper.

mechanical != scratchy

I mean mostly harsh bottoming out, and undamped upstroke.

More specifically, I meant that the browns felt a bit scratchy. It's the most noticeable on them. Very different to a lubed up Clear.

[davkol]

mechanical != scratchy

I mean mostly harsh bottoming out, and undamped upstroke.

More specifically, I meant that the browns felt a bit scratchy. It's the most noticeable on them. Very different to a lubed up Clear.

I definitely do agree with that, but I don't think it's fair to compare dry browns with lubed clears. I doubt lubed browns would feel that bad.

[Trev]

mechanical != scratchy

I mean mostly harsh bottoming out, and undamped upstroke.

More specifically, I meant that the browns felt a bit scratchy. It's the most noticeable on them. Very different to a lubed up Clear.

I definitely do agree with that, but I don't think it's fair to compare dry browns with lubed clears. I doubt lubed browns would feel that bad.

That's really all I intended to communicate   It seems like a drop of Krytox would by a huge improvement on Browns. Surprising that it's not more common.

[nubbinator]

That's really all I intended to communicate   It seems like a drop of Krytox would by a huge improvement on Browns. Surprising that it's not more common.

Krytox ain't cheap.  Maybe to rich Australians like you where Koalas grow on trees it's no big deal.

[Trev]

That's really all I intended to communicate   It seems like a drop of Krytox would by a huge improvement on Browns. Surprising that it's not more common.

Krytox ain't cheap.  Maybe to rich Australians like you where Koalas grow on trees it's no big deal.

The Koala harvest has been rather lucrative this season. The rising popularity of Koala burgers just keeps pushing up our prices.
Once you get past the Eucalyptus aftertaste, they're really quite delicious.
d[◕_◕]b

[rknize]

I lubed the MX browns on my G80 and it does make a difference.  They feel more tactile and less scratchy.  Ergo clears are commonly lubed just because they can be sticky without it.

I haven't had the FC600C for more than a week.  I do like the solid and smooth movement of the Topre stem.  I don't care for the mushy feel, though.  I'll probably try 55g at some point.

[TheQsanity]

Okay. Has anyone weighed their Topre 10keyless or HHKB? What would their weight be comparing to something like a Quickfire Rapid or Poker?

Are Topre noticeably lighter or heavier then a Cherry keyboard.

Do stickers do anything and are they worth putting on? They seem horrifying to put on.

[Trev]

Okay. Has anyone weighed their Topre 10keyless or HHKB? What would their weight be comparing to something like a Quickfire Rapid or Poker?

Are Topre noticeably lighter or heavier then a Cherry keyboard.

Do stickers do anything and are they worth putting on? They seem horrifying to put on.

"heavier or lighter" type descriptions won't help you much at all (IMO). You need to try them out, there's no avoiding this.
45g Topre certainly isn't heavy, but the actuation is high-up and almost immediate.

For keyboards weights, I ended up with roughly:
1.12kg  / 2.46lbs (Realforce 87U Silent)
500g / 1.1lbs  (HHKB2 Type-S)

Stickers take forever to put on straight, not really sure if they're worth it. I wanted my Pure to be perfect, and it does help the housing fit more tightly (seems to be helpful if you're opening and modding switches).

[tp4tissue]

I lubed the MX browns on my G80 and it does make a difference.  They feel more tactile and less scratchy.  Ergo clears are commonly lubed just because they can be sticky without it.

I haven't had the FC600C for more than a week.  I do like the solid and smooth movement of the Topre stem.  I don't care for the mushy feel, though.  I'll probably try 55g at some point.

Touch Receptors in your fingers responds to "frequency", not friction.

Browns just so happen to have a bump pronounced enough to be conveyed to your body as "friction" rather than a "hard stop/ tactility"

when you lube it, the bump is less pronounced, so the spike isn't as sharp, thus it feels less like friction.

to clarify,

tactility is the hardstop,  while NOT enough of the Hardstop, will feel like friction.

[tp4tissue]

That's really all I intended to communicate   It seems like a drop of Krytox would by a huge improvement on Browns. Surprising that it's not more common.

Krytox ain't cheap.  Maybe to rich Australians like you where Koalas grow on trees it's no big deal.

How are you guys getting krytox oil to stay.. it seems like most of it would just roll off down the stem if not in use.

[nubbinator]

How are you guys getting krytox oil to stay.. it seems like most of it would just roll off down the stem if not in use.

Most people who do Krytox do a GPL 103 and GPL 205 mix.  Since they're mixed together, the oil stays in place a little better along with the grease.

[Trev]

That's really all I intended to communicate   It seems like a drop of Krytox would by a huge improvement on Browns. Surprising that it's not more common.

Krytox ain't cheap.  Maybe to rich Australians like you where Koalas grow on trees it's no big deal.

How are you guys getting krytox oil to stay.. it seems like most of it would just roll off down the stem if not in use.

Mixing it with Krytox 205 (or similar variants).

I think by "scratchy", many of us are also referring to perceived stickiness at the same time. A tactile bump can still provide a similar resistance profile while staying smooth, without feeling like it's scratching or sticking.

[tp4tissue]

How are you guys getting krytox oil to stay.. it seems like most of it would just roll off down the stem if not in use.

Most people who do Krytox do a GPL 103 and GPL 205 mix.  Since they're mixed together, the oil stays in place a little better along with the grease.

how sure are we that mixing the two will produce a reliable suspended state, whereby the oil doesn't leave the compound. and you're left with only the grease..

[tp4tissue]

That's really all I intended to communicate   It seems like a drop of Krytox would by a huge improvement on Browns. Surprising that it's not more common.

Krytox ain't cheap.  Maybe to rich Australians like you where Koalas grow on trees it's no big deal.

How are you guys getting krytox oil to stay.. it seems like most of it would just roll off down the stem if not in use.

Mixing it with Krytox 205 (or similar variants).

I think by "scratchy", many of us are also referring to perceived stickiness at the same time. A tactile bump can still provide a similar resistance profile while staying smooth, without feeling like it's scratching or sticking.

right all i'm saying is the line between "scratchy" and "tactile" is that they're the SAME sensation , with the exception that scratchy is LESS pronounced enough to be Tactile.

[Macsmasher]

After I got topre I sold all my mx boards (blue + brown).

**** the haters.

I do have an ergo clear coming soon so I will be able to comment on the specific original ask soon though.....

After that its SSK time and I will have a complete collection!

No one here's h8ing on Topre.. but there do seem to be alotta topre people h8ing on MX..

This shall not do...

I'm an unapologetic Topre convert. I've been a coder for 18 years, and make GOOD money. My keyboard is my tool. I made a good living for three years on Cherry switches. Browns, blues, reds, and browns with landing pads. I'm sorry if you're offended. But...this is a keyboard form. And...Topre kicks ass on Cherry from here 'til Sunday.

The only reason Topre folk try to spread the gospel is because Topre is honestly that much better than Cherry and we want others to know. In every way better. Refined, smooth, tactile, soft landing, no slop, no grit. Cherry feels like typing on gravel compared to Topre switches. Flame me if you want. That's my opinion.

[Trev]

right all i'm saying is the line between "scratchy" and "tactile" is that they're the SAME sensation , with the exception that scratchy is LESS pronounced enough to be Tactile.

Think of a perfect plastic piston head and a cylinder which becomes slightly narrow in the centre. Pushing and pulling the piston head would have very different properties in an oiled vs non-oiled arrangement. They would both fit the definition of tactile, but one would definitely be perceived as "scratchy" or "sticky". It's stable sliding vs unstable stick-slip behaviour.