Author Topic: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK  (Read 7517 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline necromanx

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 40
  • Location: Belgium - Bruges
    • mykeyboard.eu
HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 09:27:07 »
JTK has been working on a new keycap profile for a while now and asked us to introduce it to the community. 

HSA or HALF SA is a double shot ABS keycap profile with a glossy finish.  As the name implies, it’s a shorter variation on the SA profile while still being spherical and sculpted.

Most of the HSA molds have been created and a good number of prototype keycaps have been made to test the profile and verify the quality of the legend and the finish.   
They shipped some keycaps of this first batch to us so I could show and share them around to get some initial feedback. 







JTK has a strong desire to get more connected to the community and work directly with designers on keysets. 
We shared a lot of feedback that has been going around in various community circles and they are taking this by heart and already made changes to their CA (Cherry) profile as well as the new HSA profile based on our feedback.   

Some of the feedback they worked on:
- The legend sharpness of their CA profile has been improved.
- ISO (Nor, De, Uk) keycaps are being molded for both CA and HSA.
- Various molds with legend inconsistencies or oddities (“back space”) are being replaced.
- Allow and quote costs for novelty keys

They shared the 3d models with us so we could conjure up some renders of the currently available keys.
renders by Janglad











They are producing a single set for us to once again be able to share with the community.  I hope to have it with me on a keyboard to the keyboard meetup in Paris end of August to get some impressions there.  I will probably ship it to some streamers after that and help setup designers that want to design a set with their new profile. 

We are currently considering running an early group buy for either White on Black or Beige on Brown as seen on the renders.  Feel free to let us know what you would like to see first!

A little sticker we got made for this keycap profile





Online eskimojo14

  • Posts: 194
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 09:30:23 »
Dang that's shiny. I love trying new profiles - my personal vote is for WoB, can't go wrong with it.

Also big up ISO love <3

Online syberghost

  • Posts: 5
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 09:47:47 »
This would be a neat profile for making a WoB with TRS-80 style slashed zero.

Offline AJM

  • Posts: 43
  • Location: Germany
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 09:50:34 »
That looks very very promising.
I always liked the shape of SA, but thought, that the keys were unnecessarily high.
So HSA would be pretty much perfect for me.  :thumb:
If the quality is right and an ISO/NorDe kit available, I will definitely get it.

Online J3ff_Leopard

  • Posts: 31
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 11:18:14 »
This looks great. Can't wait to see the improvements to the Cherry Profile stuff. I'd like to see WoB first.

Offline e11i0t23

  • Posts: 33
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 11:45:30 »
I like the look and sound if the ideas behind this profile my personal vote would be for WoB but would also love to see and have og biege brought to life in this

Offline pixelpusher

  • Posts: 2998
  • Location: Tennessee - USA
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 11:49:56 »
Not a fan of the glossy finish

Offline necromanx

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 40
  • Location: Belgium - Bruges
    • mykeyboard.eu
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 12:07:49 »
Not a fan of the glossy finish

Yeah its probably not for everyone. And I assume they can do it without the finish as well ;-).  They wanted to do something different.
I think it will work best with darker colors.

Offline beekey

  • Posts: 241
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 12:27:57 »
Prefer the brown, but WoB would be ok.

Offline Stormlex

  • Posts: 2
  • Location: Sweden
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 12:34:14 »
Beige on Brown would be more interesting imho.
Nothing wrong with WoB tho.

Cool sticker ;)

Offline pixelpusher

  • Posts: 2998
  • Location: Tennessee - USA
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 12:41:18 »
Not a fan of the glossy finish

Yeah its probably not for everyone. And I assume they can do it without the finish as well ;-).  They wanted to do something different.
I think it will work best with darker colors.

I hope they can offer more finishes.  The thickness and height look good.  I have 3 JTK cherry sets that are lovely so I know they can offer quality.

Do you have details on the sculpture?   Is it exactly the same as SA but just lower, or is it something unique?

Offline CandyKeys

  • Posts: 219
  • Location: Munich
  • Just doing EU things.
    • CandyKeys EU MK Store
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 12:47:04 »
Looks pretty neat ngl, am interested to see developments.
The CandyKeys Mechanical Keyboard Store

[/url]


Offline necromanx

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 40
  • Location: Belgium - Bruges
    • mykeyboard.eu
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 13:14:46 »

I hope they can offer more finishes.  The thickness and height look good.  I have 3 JTK cherry sets that are lovely so I know they can offer quality.

Do you have details on the sculpture?   Is it exactly the same as SA but just lower, or is it something unique?

its VERY close to SA.
Check these renders for a side by side comparison


Offline pixelpusher

  • Posts: 2998
  • Location: Tennessee - USA
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 13:28:32 »
This looks really cool. Exciting

Offline regallegion

  • Posts: 23
  • Location: San Francisco, US
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 13:30:01 »
This looks awesome!! I've always like SA, but depending on the board, the extra height makes the typing angle uncomfortable for all day typing. Really excited to get my hands on a set of these!

ps. I think this would look awesome with a classic colorway like Violet on Cream...

Offline kmfmppl

  • Posts: 25
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 13:32:06 »
Cool stuff, glad to hear they are making ISO molds

Offline menuhin

  • Posts: 1025
  • Location: Germany
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 13:38:09 »

I hope they can offer more finishes.  The thickness and height look good.  I have 3 JTK cherry sets that are lovely so I know they can offer quality.

Do you have details on the sculpture?   Is it exactly the same as SA but just lower, or is it something unique?

its VERY close to SA.
Check these renders for a side by side comparison
Show Image

Show Image


JTK indeed keeps on improving
(still waiting for their new Cherry profile homing keys, perhaps a pair of scooped caps and a separate pair of barred caps that do not hit the switch-top housing by the way)

I really like their designs and after 3 years, they also finally listened to add the 1u "| \ " key for HHKB layout.
And they rerun classic colorways such as Hyperfuse and make them more affordable for most people.
They even take on the triple-shot challenge - and I look forward to the results and the further implementation of this triple-shot art, and their take on other classic colorways as well as their updates of their old offers, e.g. to add the 1u "| \ " key back, and to re-introduce some of the LED-caps.

Question about this HSA profile:

If from left to right is R1, R1, R2, R3, R4, R5
1. Is R3 = R5?
2. Is R4 = reversed R2?

3. Is the texture more of an imitation of SP SA or like MaxKey? Or something else?
« Last Edit: Thu, 08 August 2019, 13:45:20 by menuhin »
Wishlist: 1) hotswap gasket mount; 2) nice Alps blank caps; 3) Hipro Iris with adjustable tenting; 4) CNC POM case
More
Wishful-list: 1) All POM; 2) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 3) Usable Trackpoint MK
IBM M13 black
IBM SpaceSaver II
IBM KPD8923 Trackpoint
Choc mini Gateron black
PLUM 84 'Topre-clone' 55g Korean dome
HHKB Pro 2 HasuBT
[It's not I don't like ISO, but I need the HHKB backspace... only ~90WPM, in love with Emacs, and Lisp]

Offline pixelpusher

  • Posts: 2998
  • Location: Tennessee - USA
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 13:38:58 »
this is a small detail and I'm not sure you would know, but what about skirt height?  (I'm not totally sure what you would call it) The best way I can explain it is that my SA caps on some boards sit about .2mm above the case bezels.  The same is true for GMK.  DSA actually sit even higher, with a gap of about .5mm.  BUT, MT3 caps have a longer skirt and the caps sit below the bezel.  Any idea?

Online eskimojo14

  • Posts: 194
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 13:41:25 »
Question about this HSA profile:

If from left to right is R1, R1, R2, R3, R4, R5
1. Is R3 = R5?
2. Is R4 = reversed R2?

3. Is the texture more of an imitation of SP SA or like MaxKey? Or something else?

The usual SA sculpt is 112343, and I'm assuming they've brought that across. I also believe r2 and r4 are the same but flipped, but could be wrong.
I'll let OP speak for the rest of course

Offline Sup

  • Posts: 566
  • Location: Gateron/Alps/And a little bit of Topre
    • Blog
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 13:53:34 »
I am digging this very very much
Filco Zero -  NOS Yellow Alps | Canoe R1 Gateron Red | AEK II JP Cream dampend |Filco Majestouch 2 Tex case Gateron Yellow | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev AO Serial 000171|DZ60 OG Panda's with Fei spring and stem. | Sentraq S65_Plus OG Invyr Panda's |
Coming soon 2X Lubrigrante in wonderland.

Offline necromanx

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 40
  • Location: Belgium - Bruges
    • mykeyboard.eu
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 13:56:42 »
Question about this HSA profile:

If from left to right is R1, R1, R2, R3, R4, R5
1. Is R3 = R5?
2. Is R4 = reversed R2?

3. Is the texture more of an imitation of SP SA or like MaxKey? Or something else?

The usual SA sculpt is 112343, and I'm assuming they've brought that across. I also believe r2 and r4 are the same but flipped, but could be wrong.
I'll let OP speak for the rest of course

This is correct!
R2 and R4 are the exact same but reversed on both SA and HSA

Offline necromanx

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 40
  • Location: Belgium - Bruges
    • mykeyboard.eu
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 13:57:06 »
this is a small detail and I'm not sure you would know, but what about skirt height?  (I'm not totally sure what you would call it) The best way I can explain it is that my SA caps on some boards sit about .2mm above the case bezels.  The same is true for GMK.  DSA actually sit even higher, with a gap of about .5mm.  BUT, MT3 caps have a longer skirt and the caps sit below the bezel.  Any idea?

I will try it out in the office and compare it with SP SA caps :-)

Offline romevi

  • Formerly romevi
  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 8782
  • Location: The Windy City
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 14:01:54 »
Seeing this for the first time. Very interested. I love the look of SA but do not like how they feel (I've owned three sets and couldn't get into them).

Offline agbockus

  • Posts: 64
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 14:03:46 »
I have been looking for a reasonably priced WoB kit for the last 2 months+. To me, GMK ain't worth the price, plus I love sculpted, but SA can be a bit tall...

Honestly, this is everything I'm looking for and then some. Glossy isn't my preference, but if it the price is right I can easily look past that since it shouldn't "shine" and look bad after use, since it's already glossy.

Offline psxndc

  • Posts: 35
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 14:25:30 »
Color me intrigued. Definitely prefer WoB over beige.

Offline NoiZ

  • Posts: 1
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 17:23:38 »
 i would most deff be interested in a brown set they look tha tits =)

Offline kennardsmith

  • Posts: 91
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 17:30:40 »
i'd be in for either colorway, but prefer WoB. Exciting new profile!
[Control] is just left side of [A]. It comes from Sun Type3 key layout.

Online Rob27shred

  • Posts: 562
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • Too many boards, yet not enough...
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 17:58:12 »
Half height SA profile made by JTK!? You have my attention! :thumb:

Offline Captainbuttmonkey

  • Posts: 304
  • Location: UK
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 18:04:40 »
Never thought we'd get iso moulds for jtk =O! New profile looks sweet too  :thumb:

Offline donkey

  • Posts: 76
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 19:36:36 »
All that shine don't look that good but, given that it's ABS, I can dit it as pre-shined evenly.
If it's not too late, consider HiPro like larger top surface and scooped home row. There is a HiPro clone coming so no biggie if molds have been made already.

Re first colorway, WoB has my vote.

Offline bluesclera

  • Posts: 175
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #30 on: Fri, 09 August 2019, 08:05:24 »
Love the glossy shine. I vote for black

Offline _ODIN_

  • Posts: 595
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #31 on: Fri, 09 August 2019, 08:49:52 »
WoB would be nice.

Offline equalunique

  • Posts: 304
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 09 August 2019, 16:28:17 »
100% love it. Shiny smooth keycaps are my favorite.

Both white-on-black and beige-on-brown looks awesome. Personally I'm favoring the beige-on-brown more, but would buy either.

Sent from my Ono-Sendai Cyberspace 7 using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: Fri, 09 August 2019, 16:30:35 by equalunique »

Offline mydens

  • Posts: 2
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 09 August 2019, 16:45:09 »
i would buy WoB - nice shine.

Offline lendflat

  • Posts: 41
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 09 August 2019, 16:54:06 »
When can we expect the groupbuy? this year i hope?
I vote for black.

Offline Puddsy

  • nice
  • * Elated Elder
  • Posts: 11095
  • Location: 方舟さくら丸
  • "Do you shovel to survive, or survive to shovel?"
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #35 on: Fri, 09 August 2019, 20:14:10 »
i am working on a set for this profile
QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | MIRA SE | TGR Alice | Southpaw Fullsize (pending shipping) | Daily driver: TGR Alice

Puddsy's just a post ****

Offline dgneo

  • Supervillain
  • * Curator
  • Posts: 2026
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 09 August 2019, 20:18:29 »
i am working on a set for this profile

nice
Down go the system, long live the king,
Turn the power off and get your water from the spring.

Offline superdoedoe

  • Posts: 358
  • Location: Straya
  • ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #37 on: Sat, 10 August 2019, 02:54:27 »
Watching the thread for updates
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)  

Offline necromanx

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 40
  • Location: Belgium - Bruges
    • mykeyboard.eu
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #38 on: Sat, 10 August 2019, 07:18:59 »
I will probably organize the group buy next week. Stay tuned.

Offline lendflat

  • Posts: 41
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #39 on: Sat, 10 August 2019, 07:36:57 »
oh sweet! BoW?

I will probably organize the group buy next week. Stay tuned.

Offline Findecanor

  • Posts: 4265
  • Location: Stockholm, Sweden
  • Dans öl tarvö... "Pöngö"
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #40 on: Sat, 10 August 2019, 08:24:21 »
I'm hoping the key surface isn't wider than SA. That has been my gripe with other low spherical profiles.

BTW, I prefer smooth key sides. ABS offers more friction against the fingertips than PBT. That's why PBT needs to have textured top surfaces but ABS doesn't.
Smplesh dar Ventöl pööl pööl
Daily driver: Phantom (Lubed Cherry MX Clear, Lasered Cherry PBT keycaps with Row A. Plastic "Frankencase". Custom firmware, Swedish layout)

Offline Puddsy

  • nice
  • * Elated Elder
  • Posts: 11095
  • Location: 方舟さくら丸
  • "Do you shovel to survive, or survive to shovel?"
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #41 on: Sat, 10 August 2019, 12:52:41 »
I'm hoping the key surface isn't wider than SA. That has been my gripe with other low spherical profiles.

BTW, I prefer smooth key sides. ABS offers more friction against the fingertips than PBT. That's why PBT needs to have textured top surfaces but ABS doesn't.

it is basically SP SA with half the key chopped off

should be good
QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | MIRA SE | TGR Alice | Southpaw Fullsize (pending shipping) | Daily driver: TGR Alice

Puddsy's just a post ****

Offline bluesclera

  • Posts: 175
  • Location: Toronto, Canada
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #42 on: Sat, 10 August 2019, 16:41:01 »
nevermind thanks.
« Last Edit: Sat, 10 August 2019, 16:49:21 by bluesclera »

Offline InvidiousIgnoramus

  • Posts: 329
  • Location: Columbia, SC
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #43 on: Sat, 10 August 2019, 17:31:44 »
Beige on brown please!
I long for the day when I find a beamspring. (At a not insane price)

Offline pixelpusher

  • Posts: 2998
  • Location: Tennessee - USA
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #44 on: Sat, 10 August 2019, 17:59:16 »
I'm hoping the key surface isn't wider than SA. That has been my gripe with other low spherical profiles.

BTW, I prefer smooth key sides. ABS offers more friction against the fingertips than PBT. That's why PBT needs to have textured top surfaces but ABS doesn't.

Smooth, I'm all for.  Shiny, no.  Right?  RIGHT?  :p

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3642
  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #45 on: Mon, 12 August 2019, 01:40:27 »
People should read https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=63052.0 before starting this kind of project.



« Last Edit: Mon, 12 August 2019, 02:01:38 by jacobolus »

Offline vi0till

  • Posts: 40
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #46 on: Mon, 12 August 2019, 12:53:45 »
Go beige on brown. Estimate GB date?

Beige on brown please!

Offline Puddsy

  • nice
  • * Elated Elder
  • Posts: 11095
  • Location: 方舟さくら丸
  • "Do you shovel to survive, or survive to shovel?"
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #47 on: Mon, 12 August 2019, 17:52:07 »
People should read https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=63052.0 before starting this kind of project.

Show Image


Show Image


while technically correct this chart doesn't account for the short-SA profiles that have become more popular since it was made

but like says in the post

spherical angled
QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | MIRA SE | TGR Alice | Southpaw Fullsize (pending shipping) | Daily driver: TGR Alice

Puddsy's just a post ****

Offline Damage

  • Posts: 12
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #48 on: Mon, 12 August 2019, 21:47:35 »
Will buy the brown. Or, you know, HSA Olivia or something.  ;)

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3642
  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: HSA, a new keycap profile by JTK
« Reply #49 on: Mon, 12 August 2019, 22:36:10 »
while technically correct this chart doesn't account for the short-SA profiles that have become more popular since it was made

but like says in the post: spherical angled
Popularity is not the point here.

Just shortening SA keycaps still leaves an incorrect keycap profile which only properly functions as intended when attached to keyswitches with tilted stems. When stuck onto MX (or similar) switches with straight stems, the result is a degraded/corrupted experience.

The original designers of an SA-style keycap shape were experts at IBM and Honeywell in the 1960s who did serious ergonomics research. Their work was copied by everyone else in the industry, most of whom did not have the same level of understanding.

The proper way to adapt SA-type keycaps for straight-stemmed switches (irrespective of the height) is to systematically rotate the tops so that a proper “stairstep” pattern is maintained between the home row and the two rows above. For inspiration look at the spherical keycaps used on Alps switches in Canon typewriters of the early 1980s, or look at signature plastics’s SS or DSS profile (if someone made a copy of SP’s DSS profile – which is basically this HSA idea but done correctly, but for which the molds sadly no longer exist – that would be amazing). Or for that matter look at “cherry profile” or “alps profile” cylindrical caps, etc.

Using SA profile as-is or just reducing its height is a poor choice, ergonomically. It will slow down typing and reduce accuracy.

It’s great to bring back good ideas and a pretty aesthetic from the 60s–70s, but people should be examining the design from first principles and figuring out *why* the old idea worked that way, not just copying a corrupted variant of the superficial form without understanding.
« Last Edit: Mon, 12 August 2019, 22:45:40 by jacobolus »