Author Topic: [IC] KAT Refined - GB starts tomorrow!  (Read 114728 times)

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Offline Adelscott

  • Posts: 177
  • Location: ISO-FR
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #200 on: Fri, 05 June 2020, 10:31:57 »
So this really will be the first KAT set not offering French support ?

This potentially could sell even better than KAT Milkshake. In a perfect world, a mainstream colorway like yours could be available in stock in EU proxies at all times and sell regularly to new comers ...

@OP you replied to me on Reddit that "the numbers of french kits on previous GBs were too small",  I ear that. But did you consider that those who buy those kits also buy the others kits ? Could you go the extra mile like almost all other KAT designers ? Is that really complicated and time consuming to offer this "basic" kit ?  We are not asking for a second B or to split a kit in fifty ways to please some, we are just begging to exist.

KAT (along with KAM) with no specific MOQ is the only profile we have access to, please don't take that away from us ...

#ThisIsNotGMK #AzertyLivesMatter

I haven't made any hard choices yet between kits, so there's still hope  :cool:. Kits are still being changed often, I had a big change yesterday, and another one the day before. GB is still quite some time away and I am moving down the ladder and looking at priorities. I said the French kit is not looking very likely, and with Space Cadet selling 6 (!!) kits in total that is still true. In the order of things there are other kits that are more important and bigger groups of users that want to have their needs met first. It's just the way it is, hope you can understand that?

I understand, don't get me wrong, I know what it is to reply to dozens of requests, and I am paid for it, not doing it on my valuable spare time like you, so  :thumb: for you truly.

By the way, and I say it very humbly because the numbers of others GB are not huge : you took the worst run for French  :'( . Here the GBs I followed :



International and UK did the same low numbers as french in Space Cadet.

Last but not least, biip opened the way by integrating by default a french kit in KAT Milkshake. And I'm not gonna lie, that's what sucked me into this expensive hobby  :).  Allmost all subsequents KAT GBs, with centered legends did the same : a French kit available. Would they have done it without the initial biip move ? Maybe, maybe not. All I know is we are very grateful they did.  You see me coming I guess, your set could be the foundation of others sets to come ...

Edit: sorry wrong numbers for Space Cadet, they were not final. Updated below



Still bad for french, but It made better after with KAT Arctic !
« Last Edit: Fri, 05 June 2020, 10:37:21 by Adelscott »

Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #201 on: Fri, 05 June 2020, 10:52:50 »
Hello fine folks.

I have been crunching numbers today. It has maybe not been the most fun thing I have ever done but very helpful in making choices based on facts. When I went over the sets I did not count novelty kits or language kits such as greek, katakana, korean etc or blanks. I also bundled all mod kits (icon, text icon+text) and the same with all alphas and other kits that could be bundled. It cleaned up a whole lot of noise. (let me know if you want to see that list also if you don't trust me  :cool:) I am aware that the same buyer might have grabbed two when they would otherwise just have bought one if that was the only choice but such is life. I can't disregard them, but I also think they are hardly a majority so it doesn't matter much in the end anyway. Also those kits are the ones I already have anyway.

Another thing to note is that UK, US and UK&US have been split in my list. I think it skews the results a bit in a strange way to combine all of them in to one so they are still separated. But even if they are joined it doesn't make a huge difference.

Here we have the list with the results on the right side (ordered and non-ordered). What is marked green is what I already have (I included the split Ortho and 40s kits too) just so it becomes clearer what should be added.


The ordered list on its own for clarity


Let me know what you think of this list but I think it is pretty clear that a spacebar kit and Ergo kit is needed at the very least.

« Last Edit: Fri, 05 June 2020, 12:07:10 by MacSurfy »

Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #202 on: Fri, 05 June 2020, 11:00:04 »
So this really will be the first KAT set not offering French support ?

This potentially could sell even better than KAT Milkshake. In a perfect world, a mainstream colorway like yours could be available in stock in EU proxies at all times and sell regularly to new comers ...

@OP you replied to me on Reddit that "the numbers of french kits on previous GBs were too small",  I ear that. But did you consider that those who buy those kits also buy the others kits ? Could you go the extra mile like almost all other KAT designers ? Is that really complicated and time consuming to offer this "basic" kit ?  We are not asking for a second B or to split a kit in fifty ways to please some, we are just begging to exist.

KAT (along with KAM) with no specific MOQ is the only profile we have access to, please don't take that away from us ...

#ThisIsNotGMK #AzertyLivesMatter

I haven't made any hard choices yet between kits, so there's still hope  :cool:. Kits are still being changed often, I had a big change yesterday, and another one the day before. GB is still quite some time away and I am moving down the ladder and looking at priorities. I said the French kit is not looking very likely, and with Space Cadet selling 6 (!!) kits in total that is still true. In the order of things there are other kits that are more important and bigger groups of users that want to have their needs met first. It's just the way it is, hope you can understand that?

I understand, don't get me wrong, I know what it is to reply to dozens of requests, and I am paid for it, not doing it on my valuable spare time like you, so  :thumb: for you truly.

By the way, and I say it very humbly because the numbers of others GB are not huge : you took the worst run for French  :'( . Here the GBs I followed :

Show Image


International and UK did the same low numbers as french in Space Cadet.

Last but not least, biip opened the way by integrating by default a french kit in KAT Milkshake. And I'm not gonna lie, that's what sucked me into this expensive hobby  :).  Allmost all subsequents KAT GBs, with centered legends did the same : a French kit available. Would they have done it without the initial biip move ? Maybe, maybe not. All I know is we are very grateful they did.  You see me coming I guess, your set could be the foundation of others sets to come ...

Edit: sorry wrong numbers for Space Cadet, they were not final. Updated below

Show Image


Still bad for french, but It made better after with KAT Arctic !

Funny that we were doing some number crunching at the same time :)


Offline Adelscott

  • Posts: 177
  • Location: ISO-FR
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #203 on: Fri, 05 June 2020, 11:21:13 »
So this really will be the first KAT set not offering French support ?

This potentially could sell even better than KAT Milkshake. In a perfect world, a mainstream colorway like yours could be available in stock in EU proxies at all times and sell regularly to new comers ...

@OP you replied to me on Reddit that "the numbers of french kits on previous GBs were too small",  I ear that. But did you consider that those who buy those kits also buy the others kits ? Could you go the extra mile like almost all other KAT designers ? Is that really complicated and time consuming to offer this "basic" kit ?  We are not asking for a second B or to split a kit in fifty ways to please some, we are just begging to exist.

KAT (along with KAM) with no specific MOQ is the only profile we have access to, please don't take that away from us ...

#ThisIsNotGMK #AzertyLivesMatter

I haven't made any hard choices yet between kits, so there's still hope  :cool:. Kits are still being changed often, I had a big change yesterday, and another one the day before. GB is still quite some time away and I am moving down the ladder and looking at priorities. I said the French kit is not looking very likely, and with Space Cadet selling 6 (!!) kits in total that is still true. In the order of things there are other kits that are more important and bigger groups of users that want to have their needs met first. It's just the way it is, hope you can understand that?

I understand, don't get me wrong, I know what it is to reply to dozens of requests, and I am paid for it, not doing it on my valuable spare time like you, so  :thumb: for you truly.

By the way, and I say it very humbly because the numbers of others GB are not huge : you took the worst run for French  :'( . Here the GBs I followed :

Show Image


International and UK did the same low numbers as french in Space Cadet.

Last but not least, biip opened the way by integrating by default a french kit in KAT Milkshake. And I'm not gonna lie, that's what sucked me into this expensive hobby  :).  Allmost all subsequents KAT GBs, with centered legends did the same : a French kit available. Would they have done it without the initial biip move ? Maybe, maybe not. All I know is we are very grateful they did.  You see me coming I guess, your set could be the foundation of others sets to come ...

Edit: sorry wrong numbers for Space Cadet, they were not final. Updated below

Show Image


Still bad for french, but It made better after with KAT Arctic !

Funny that we were doing some number crunching at the same time :)

Yes and you did the same mistake as I did : your Space Cadet numbers are not final numbers. That doesn't argue in french kit favor, but I'm honest :p


Offline Bl4ck

  • Posts: 127
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #204 on: Fri, 05 June 2020, 11:35:57 »
And here I am ISO-PT user (language included in South kits) :)

Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #205 on: Fri, 05 June 2020, 11:42:08 »
So this really will be the first KAT set not offering French support ?

This potentially could sell even better than KAT Milkshake. In a perfect world, a mainstream colorway like yours could be available in stock in EU proxies at all times and sell regularly to new comers ...

@OP you replied to me on Reddit that "the numbers of french kits on previous GBs were too small",  I ear that. But did you consider that those who buy those kits also buy the others kits ? Could you go the extra mile like almost all other KAT designers ? Is that really complicated and time consuming to offer this "basic" kit ?  We are not asking for a second B or to split a kit in fifty ways to please some, we are just begging to exist.

KAT (along with KAM) with no specific MOQ is the only profile we have access to, please don't take that away from us ...

#ThisIsNotGMK #AzertyLivesMatter

I haven't made any hard choices yet between kits, so there's still hope  :cool:. Kits are still being changed often, I had a big change yesterday, and another one the day before. GB is still quite some time away and I am moving down the ladder and looking at priorities. I said the French kit is not looking very likely, and with Space Cadet selling 6 (!!) kits in total that is still true. In the order of things there are other kits that are more important and bigger groups of users that want to have their needs met first. It's just the way it is, hope you can understand that?

I understand, don't get me wrong, I know what it is to reply to dozens of requests, and I am paid for it, not doing it on my valuable spare time like you, so  :thumb: for you truly.

By the way, and I say it very humbly because the numbers of others GB are not huge : you took the worst run for French  :'( . Here the GBs I followed :

Show Image


International and UK did the same low numbers as french in Space Cadet.

Last but not least, biip opened the way by integrating by default a french kit in KAT Milkshake. And I'm not gonna lie, that's what sucked me into this expensive hobby  :).  Allmost all subsequents KAT GBs, with centered legends did the same : a French kit available. Would they have done it without the initial biip move ? Maybe, maybe not. All I know is we are very grateful they did.  You see me coming I guess, your set could be the foundation of others sets to come ...

Edit: sorry wrong numbers for Space Cadet, they were not final. Updated below

Show Image


Still bad for french, but It made better after with KAT Arctic !

Funny that we were doing some number crunching at the same time :)

Yes and you did the same mistake as I did : your Space Cadet numbers are not final numbers. That doesn't argue in french kit favor, but I'm honest :p

Show Image


Ah I will revise the post later then

And here I am ISO-PT user (language included in South kits) :)

My condolences  :D

Offline Bl4ck

  • Posts: 127
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #206 on: Fri, 05 June 2020, 11:43:47 »
And here I am ISO-PT user (language included in South kits) :)

My condolences  :D

No problem, I'm starting to get used to ISO-UK I guess

Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #207 on: Fri, 05 June 2020, 12:10:55 »
I updated the chart, it didn't change much to have the final Space Cadet numbers in there except UK jumped up quite a bit.

Worth noting is also that Ergo for instance was not offered in one of the sets, if it had been I think it could easily have been above 40s/Ortho. Also the Mac kit which sells pretty well actually, it was only offered in half of the sets so just by assuming it would have sold twice as well if it were offered, it would have been the 5th best selling kit. Not bad, and quite surprising.

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #208 on: Fri, 05 June 2020, 12:16:13 »
What do “US”, “UK”, “US/UK ISO” and “ISO” represent? It'd be nice to have some sort of visual representation.
« Last Edit: Fri, 05 June 2020, 12:17:57 by konstantin »

Offline ivu

  • Posts: 60
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #209 on: Fri, 05 June 2020, 12:40:09 »
Would definitely get this one as i'm not really a fan of the big centered legends on all KAT sets so far tbh.

@MacSurfy, Any chance of adding 1u "`~" R4 key to the mod kits for split backspace 65% layouts? There's quite a big group of ppl using that layout, me included :)

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: Fri, 05 June 2020, 12:42:54 by ivu »

Offline Bonsa

  • Posts: 41
  • Location: Belgium
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #210 on: Fri, 05 June 2020, 13:09:44 »
Really nice to see an overview of KAT orders. Thank you for taking the time to do this research.
I guess it's safe to say the ortho/40's kit can be made into 2 separate kits?

Offline bobdenard

  • Posts: 150
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #211 on: Fri, 05 June 2020, 13:43:01 »
I updated the chart, it didn't change much to have the final Space Cadet numbers in there except UK jumped up quite a bit.

Worth noting is also that Ergo for instance was not offered in one of the sets, if it had been I think it could easily have been above 40s/Ortho. Also the Mac kit which sells pretty well actually, it was only offered in half of the sets so just by assuming it would have sold twice as well if it were offered, it would have been the 5th best selling kit. Not bad, and quite surprising.
That’s a great job compiling all that data, interesting.

And I’m one those weird dudes that will be buying French AND Mac kits :)

Anyway, not really surprising about Mac, a lot of designers, coders... use Macs nowadays, and we like shiny new keycaps just as much as the next guy.

Offline Sterenke

  • Posts: 15
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #212 on: Fri, 05 June 2020, 21:34:07 »
I'm missing some keys in the 40s kit for compatibility on my keyboards:
R3 1u Delete
R2 1.25u Control

And in 'extra mods' I want to request R1 Super key in 1.25u size
It looks like you have three win keys in 1.25u size in 'extra mods' - do we need more winkeys?

Offline note

  • Posts: 39
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #213 on: Fri, 05 June 2020, 22:04:07 »
Definitely interested in this set!

Offline ullr

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #214 on: Fri, 05 June 2020, 23:46:21 »
Looks ace, I'd like to see a render with all white and text mods

Offline GSV-CargoCult

  • Posts: 14
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #215 on: Sat, 06 June 2020, 03:46:28 »
Totally relived to see this! I've had GMK Stockholm syndrome for a while now. I love all the bright colorways, but this BoW set just looks so damn fresh and clean! Amazing job!

Just to wade in on the international sets... The main reason I feel stuck with GMK is that the base generally always includes UK ISO. SA kits tend to bundle Nordeuk which makes them even more expensive.

I'd imagine (I don't have the numbers) that sets with combined Nordeuk kits generally sell less (international) sets when compared to split sets? That would be interesting to see 😊

(Here comes the emotional blackmail😉)

I bequeath you OP, give us weird ISO klackers freedom and see you European Brothers and Sisters as individual cultures!

TLDR: please could you consider splitting out a UK ISO kit?
« Last Edit: Sun, 07 June 2020, 03:18:18 by GSV-CargoCult »

Offline forevermadrigal

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #216 on: Sat, 06 June 2020, 04:57:46 »
I was waiting for the KAT set to make me say YES, I'M IN and it looks like it has arrived. Super excited to see how these legends turn out. I see there is a r1 1.5 fn key in the ortho kit, is there any way to add that to the the extra mods kit? It adds some flexibility to WKL users :thumb:

Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #217 on: Sat, 06 June 2020, 05:18:44 »
IMPORTANT STATEMENT REGARDING KAT

Yesterday started so well with the TC episode and the great feedback from the community, but ended in the worst possible way. I wanted to react immediately in my GH thread, but decided to at least sleep on it and think about how to approach this before writing anything in anger. There is a right way, and a wrong way. The wrong way would be to not react at all and pretend everything is fine and cash in on your purchases and move on to the next project. I feel I can't do that, and at this point I am questioning the whole project.

Photos started surfacing from a recently delivered KAT set yesterday evening and what I saw was less than pleasing to put it mildly. Horrifying is maybe a better word. Legends are poorly aligned, and the caps are of the wrong size, or the stems might be positioned wrong. This causes some caps to be very close, and I am hearing they are even touching sometimes and in other cases just create a lot of weird gaps and uneven row endings.

I want to make it very clear: This is not that specific set designers fault. So please do not attack him. This is a QC issue and a mold issue.

Fact is that I had noticed the issue with the caps before, and contacted the manufactorer about it. They said it was the first time they heard of such a thing but agreed that I was correct and something was indeed wrong. They are looking at the issue, at least that was what was promised to me. But wether any changes will be made is yet to be seen and as long as I am the only one complaining then it's a hard battle since it is so expensive to replace the molds. They have been nothing but great to me in our correspondence so far and listen to my feedback. I am not attacking them either but we have issues and I think they need to be dealt with for KAT to be great.

Misalignment issues can be solved. It's a human error but it also means each set will be delivered with a drum roll that either falls flat on its face or come out as intended. I don't like that variable and I think we need to aim for consistency and better QC. For KAT Refined specifically I have zero margins for errors.


Next steps

I can not push for this alone, and I hope by now other designers of current sets in IC's or sets that are about to be produced will heave heard about this and will push for a change. If not, you are a part of the problem and you can't point fingers once your sets have been delivered and your buyers are angry/unhappy.

For KAT Refined my immediate reaction was to abort the whole project but after sleeping on it I want to help (with your help) fix the issues, but I might put it on hold while it happens. I simply can't let this happen to my set and I hope other designers feel the same way. If there is no change, there will be no Refined.

To be continued....


Edit: as more and more people get their sets we'll see if this is a widespread issue or not. Also I don't have it in my hands so just judging from what owners are saying and their photos.


   


« Last Edit: Sat, 06 June 2020, 14:02:29 by MacSurfy »

Offline Hell-es

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #218 on: Sat, 06 June 2020, 05:56:22 »
Thanks for the update.

If you have faith in KAT and Keyreative, I think it makes sense to proceed with IC and Kit Design etc. - but if you feel that this is a waste of time then just put it on hold.

If QC is done right, and after some first impression from KAT users, the profile really has potential the get a big market share - and this design for WoB and BoW really looks like a big classic.

So would be a shame if it would not happen - but you‘re right - it deserves perfection.


Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #219 on: Sat, 06 June 2020, 06:38:01 »
Thanks for the update.

If you have faith in KAT and Keyreative, I think it makes sense to proceed with IC and Kit Design etc. - but if you feel that this is a waste of time then just put it on hold.

If QC is done right, and after some first impression from KAT users, the profile really has potential the get a big market share - and this design for WoB and BoW really looks like a big classic.

So would be a shame if it would not happen - but you‘re right - it deserves perfection.

I have faith in them and I will probably continue to develop the set regardless. I want to make sure we have something in case we have progress on the physical caps but my motivation sort of vanished. KAT Eternal is coming out soon, it's looking great and I am very curious to see how it turns out.

Offline Bl4ck

  • Posts: 127
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #220 on: Sat, 06 June 2020, 06:40:27 »
Thanks for the update.

If you have faith in KAT and Keyreative, I think it makes sense to proceed with IC and Kit Design etc. - but if you feel that this is a waste of time then just put it on hold.

If QC is done right, and after some first impression from KAT users, the profile really has potential the get a big market share - and this design for WoB and BoW really looks like a big classic.

So would be a shame if it would not happen - but you‘re right - it deserves perfection.

I have faith in them and I will probably continue to develop the set regardless. I want to make sure we have something in case we have progress on the physical caps but my motivation sort of vanished. KAT Eternal is coming out soon, it's looking great and I am very curious to see how it turns out.

And eternal would give an idea of the reverse dye-sub quality.

Also. I would guess that for milkshake and eternal the problems you referred would probably not be fixed because If I remember correctly they should already be in production before you pointed out those problems to Keyreative I would assume.

Offline hottrout

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #221 on: Sat, 06 June 2020, 06:42:35 »
Now that KAT WoB GB has been halted, this GB is important.  I will be buying both WoB and BoW, full sets, with ISO & UK & Numpad.  Please make this happen.
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Offline Shikada

  • Posts: 34
  • Location: Serbia
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #222 on: Sat, 06 June 2020, 11:20:19 »
Now that KAT WoB GB has been halted, this GB is important.  I will be buying both WoB and BoW, full sets, with ISO & UK & Numpad.  Please make this happen.

Would you still buy it if it had all of the above mentioned issues? I know we kinda accept a lot of crap in this hobby sometimes, but at least trying to be a responsible buyer will go a long way in improving this hobby.

Offline psxndc

  • Posts: 392
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #223 on: Sat, 06 June 2020, 14:36:03 »
Now I'm scared to mount my Milkshakes. I'm normally pretty oblivious and probably wouldn't have noticed anything. Now I'll be looking for it.

Offline hkhawk

  • Posts: 122
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #224 on: Sat, 06 June 2020, 15:00:00 »
Holy moly, I just learned about this on Top Clack and am so impressed with all of the hard work and thought that went into this! Amazing work!

Offline MasterTi

  • Posts: 9
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #225 on: Sat, 06 June 2020, 20:28:51 »
Definitely going to purchase this. Hope the manufacturer sorts out the current issues

Offline Alpacacino

  • Posts: 8
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #226 on: Sat, 06 June 2020, 22:12:10 »
Yes please!  I need me a set of white caps.  God knows when Minimal R2 will happen.  I need this NOW!

Offline yenel

  • Posts: 18
  • Location: Neverland
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #227 on: Sun, 07 June 2020, 00:12:12 »
I’ve been curious about the KAT profile ever since it was released. Heard good things about the typing experience and sound but I could just never get past the legends. As with most sculpted profiles the legends are really big, centered and seem less thought out than GMK/Cherry.
... I thought that perhaps there are more people like me out there, who are annoyed with GMK icons/legends but can’t find a good alternative. Or people who are willing to try a more sculpted profile but just can’t see themselves using centered legends/icons.

Thank you for outlining the exact reasons for why I shy away from DSA/SA/etc. sets. I'm not sure if it's a psychological thing, but something about the look of Cherry icons/legends is just more pleasing than centered ones imo. The way you've detailed some of GMK's icon/legend problems and how you changed them also solves some of the problems I've had with GMK icon/legends and more. I'll definitely be watching this IC with great interest.

KAT sets so far have avoided tertiary (and cuaternary) legends because "KAT spherical, like SA" and "non centered looks bad on SA", and this is a point that needs to be tested: will corner-aligned legends look proper in KAT keycaps or not? (followed by will the necessarily thinner lines in those glyphs look fine?)

Tangentially, although they are in different languages, looking at how MT3 Serika Katakana and SA Laser Cyberdeck (yeah SA R3, but I wouldn't completely write it off) have turned out, I'd venture to say corner-aligned legends in KAT won't look bad and are definitely worth being tested. I'm not sure about others, whether they're in it for the WoB/BoW colorway or KAT kitting, but the entire reason I'll be following this project is because of the legends.
GL OP - hoping the situation turns out for the better.
« Last Edit: Sun, 07 June 2020, 00:16:16 by yenel »

Offline thelaughingman

  • Posts: 226
  • Location: Vietnam
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #228 on: Sun, 07 June 2020, 01:11:32 »
Topclack brought me to this IC. Really appreciate all the work you've done thus far but completely understand if you abort the project in it current iteration with KAT.

I owned the KAT Alpha set from the initial GB and KAT is now my 2nd favourite profile with MT3 at #1 and Cherry (specifically GMK) at #3. Loved the texture and the sound of KAT profile but could not get into the dye-sub legend of that set. There were a lot of highly visible inconsistencies that even I noticed, let alone a designer with a focus like yours. Definitely agree it's a manufacturing issue so let's see if they can fix/improve the quality of the dye-sub.

Offline robrobro

  • Posts: 8
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #229 on: Sun, 07 June 2020, 01:35:10 »
I really love the attention to detail in this set. A must but for me just for the typographic craft.

However, all that work will be wasted if the manufacturer doesn’t share your focus on quality and consistency. As it stands I’m hesitant about joining any KAT GB until some assurances are made.

Offline Vireca

  • Posts: 175
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #230 on: Sun, 07 June 2020, 04:35:00 »
Sometimes I think the designers just want to get the money and move on without dealing with problems but you come here and explain all and want to fix it. Thanks MacSurfy, this means a lot for me and the community. We can't keep ignoring these problems on keysets and I hope all the KAT/KAM designers make an effort to ix the problem with Keyreative

Offline MacSurfy

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  • Posts: 211
  • Location: Amsterdam
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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #231 on: Sun, 07 June 2020, 07:26:18 »
Any chance of adding 1u "`~" R4 key to the mod kits for split backspace 65% layouts? There's quite a big group of ppl using that layout, me included :)

It is already in the alpha kit  ;)

Sometimes I think the designers just want to get the money and move on without dealing with problems but you come here and explain all and want to fix it. Thanks MacSurfy, this means a lot for me and the community. We can't keep ignoring these problems on keysets and I hope all the KAT/KAM designers make an effort to ix the problem with Keyreative

Thank you! Let's hope it makes a difference.

I really love the attention to detail in this set. A must but for me just for the typographic craft.

However, all that work will be wasted if the manufacturer doesn’t share your focus on quality and consistency. As it stands I’m hesitant about joining any KAT GB until some assurances are made.

Agreed. I feel the same. I am in good spirits so I hope this will be resolved. GB date (not revealed yet) still stands until I say otherwise so we're moving forward but I probably won't make any updates for a while.

Topclack brought me to this IC. Really appreciate all the work you've done thus far but completely understand if you abort the project in it current iteration with KAT.

I owned the KAT Alpha set from the initial GB and KAT is now my 2nd favourite profile with MT3 at #1 and Cherry (specifically GMK) at #3. Loved the texture and the sound of KAT profile but could not get into the dye-sub legend of that set. There were a lot of highly visible inconsistencies that even I noticed, let alone a designer with a focus like yours. Definitely agree it's a manufacturing issue so let's see if they can fix/improve the quality of the dye-sub.

Thank you for outlining the exact reasons for why I shy away from DSA/SA/etc. sets. I'm not sure if it's a psychological thing, but something about the look of Cherry icons/legends is just more pleasing than centered ones imo. The way you've detailed some of GMK's icon/legend problems and how you changed them also solves some of the problems I've had with GMK icon/legends and more. I'll definitely be watching this IC with great interest.

Yes please!  I need me a set of white caps.  God knows when Minimal R2 will happen.  I need this NOW!

Definitely going to purchase this. Hope the manufacturer sorts out the current issues

Holy moly, I just learned about this on Top Clack and am so impressed with all of the hard work and thought that went into this! Amazing work!

Thank u for the support!  :thumb: :thumb:

Offline ivu

  • Posts: 60
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #232 on: Sun, 07 June 2020, 08:19:59 »
Any chance of adding 1u "`~" R4 key to the mod kits for split backspace 65% layouts? There's quite a big group of ppl using that layout, me included :)

It is already in the alpha kit  ;)


Yeah, my idea was mostly for having a mixed black mods and white alphas for example.
In order to achieve the color setup from the attached picture, i would have to get also white alphas for that key or to be left with a bit asymmetrical top row :)

Offline danieljgrouse

  • Posts: 51
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #233 on: Sun, 07 June 2020, 08:42:13 »
I love the amount of effort that went into this, the set looks great. All the changes are just enough to not only fix the issues with GMK but also make it feel familiar yet more fresh than GMK. This set is an instant classic. One thing I would love to see are light grey accents - something that would go with the BoW, WoB, and combined versions while adding some more variety and visual interest.

Offline Pyk_

  • Posts: 55
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #234 on: Sun, 07 June 2020, 22:23:06 »
Good luck with this, obviously such a precise set would need to be accurately reproduced. I assumed most will be happy with waiting if needed.

As for the actual set, I’m happy with ortho being text mods (I actually prefer this), but why are the arrows icons while everything else is text? Is this just how GMK is when it comes to ortho? Sorry, I’m a bit of a noob especially when it comes to GMK, but it seems a bit odd to me.

Offline desmotyping

  • Posts: 2
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #235 on: Sun, 07 June 2020, 23:03:17 »
I know this thread has moved on but I wanted to make a comment on some of the kits that seem to sell in smaller numbers- like some of the language kits or the Colevrak set that I'd be interested in.  Forgive me if it's something that's pretty obvious but I was concerned it was getting lost in all the numbers counting.  That's the fact that even when numbers seem small these kits drive the sale of other kits in the group by.  A person missing out on a Mac set or some novelties might still buy into the set but someone looking for language support is far less likely to buy it and someone who wants Colevrak probably won't at all.  With that in mind each of those Colevrak kits probably represents the sale of at least 3-4 other kits in the buy.  So a worst case 15 Colevrak kit sales might actually add, say, 60 kits when you consider everything else that person will purchase in the set, including the mandatory Alphas since having Colevrak alone isn't enough.

I can say in my case that the presence of Colevrak in a set will motivate me to buy it and I really won't purchase it, no matter how great it is, without it.  I'd be remiss if I didn't say that this set looks amazing so I'm very much hoping will see Colevrak for it. 

Offline vsrnth

  • Posts: 103
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #236 on: Sun, 07 June 2020, 23:04:51 »
I know this thread has moved on but I wanted to make a comment on some of the kits that seem to sell in smaller numbers- like some of the language kits or the Colevrak set that I'd be interested in.  Forgive me if it's something that's pretty obvious but I was concerned it was getting lost in all the numbers counting.  That's the fact that even when numbers seem small these kits drive the sale of other kits in the group by.  A person missing out on a Mac set or some novelties might still buy into the set but someone looking for language support is far less likely to buy it and someone who wants Colevrak probably won't at all.  With that in mind each of those Colevrak kits probably represents the sale of at least 3-4 other kits in the buy.  So a worst case 15 Colevrak kit sales might actually add, say, 60 kits when you consider everything else that person will purchase in the set, including the mandatory Alphas since having Colevrak alone isn't enough.

I can say in my case that the presence of Colevrak in a set will motivate me to buy it and I really won't purchase it, no matter how great it is, without it.  I'd be remiss if I didn't say that this set looks amazing so I'm very much hoping will see Colevrak for it.
This

Colevrak please.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


Offline MacSurfy

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 211
  • Location: Amsterdam
  • Designer & 3D artist
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #237 on: Mon, 08 June 2020, 12:21:49 »
I have been in contact with the manufacturer of KAT today and I'm very happy about how they are handling the current situation. They are doing their best to fix what is wrong for the customers that received scuffed caps/legends and will make sure that it doesn't happen again in the future.

Hopefully the upcoming sets won't have these issues but I will monitor that closely.

So for now the show goes on!

Offline Emir

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #238 on: Mon, 08 June 2020, 17:00:16 »
Just popped back in since launch and wow, what a properly ran IC!

Huge props to maccie!

Offline Alpacacino

  • Posts: 8
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #239 on: Mon, 08 June 2020, 19:07:41 »
Total noob here, but I don't see the link to the IC form anywhere?

Offline JagdPietr

  • Posts: 11
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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #240 on: Mon, 08 June 2020, 20:46:49 »
I'm at a loss for words, except that

I'm really in

GLWIC!

Offline thelaughingman

  • Posts: 226
  • Location: Vietnam
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #241 on: Mon, 08 June 2020, 21:49:27 »
I have been in contact with the manufacturer of KAT today and I'm very happy about how they are handling the current situation. They are doing their best to fix what is wrong for the customers that received scuffed caps/legends and will make sure that it doesn't happen again in the future.

Hopefully the upcoming sets won't have these issues but I will monitor that closely.

So for now the show goes on!
that is great to hear! make sure you have a really tight grip on the protoypes, either super-zoomed in detailed pictures or have the prototypes in hand yourself. Just observing the trouble Matt3o has with Susuwatari protoyping process made me appreciate the work you guys do so much more.

here's to hoping the manufacturer can pull through!  :thumb:

Offline macclack

  • Posts: 423
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    • Macclack
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #242 on: Mon, 08 June 2020, 22:42:25 »
On the Mac Kit would you consider adding more function keys up to F19?

Offline konstantin

  • Formerly constexpr
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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #243 on: Tue, 09 June 2020, 08:22:52 »
On the Mac Kit would you consider adding more function keys up to F19?

I get F13–F15, but I've never seen F16–F19 used on a Mac keyboard. What do you need those keys for?

Offline macclack

  • Posts: 423
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    • Macclack
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #244 on: Tue, 09 June 2020, 08:30:06 »
On the Mac Kit would you consider adding more function keys up to F19?

I get F13–F15, but I've never seen F16–F19 used on a Mac keyboard. What do you need those keys for?

https://en.varmilo.com/keyboardproscenium/subject_product_detailed?subjectid=112

Offline konstantin

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Offline Ennead

  • Posts: 6
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #246 on: Tue, 09 June 2020, 18:30:03 »
Beautiful, I'd be down for both BoW and WoB.

If I could just request a small addition to the Nordeu kits, it would be to add the two caps marked in yellow, they'd make the kit fully Estonian-compliant (even if I'm probably the only one here to benefit from this :D) Many other KAT sets have included these in their North kits, so here's hoping :)

All the best!


Offline nguyenhimself

  • Posts: 663
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #247 on: Wed, 10 June 2020, 02:11:27 »
On the Mac Kit would you consider adding more function keys up to F19?
From another Mac user: Please either add those keys to the F-row kit, or not at all.
Sub-TKL builds are way more popular these days. If someone already skips the F-row kit, what would they need F16-19 for? Seems wasteful.

Offline MacSurfy

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 211
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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #248 on: Wed, 10 June 2020, 02:23:58 »
On the Mac Kit would you consider adding more function keys up to F19?
From another Mac user: Please either add those keys to the F-row kit, or not at all.
Sub-TKL builds are way more popular these days. If someone already skips the F-row kit, what would they need F16-19 for? Seems wasteful.

Good point. It does add quite a few extra keys for what seems a very small group.

Offline kgorin

  • Formerly aka_gk
  • Posts: 56
  • Location: Russia
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #249 on: Wed, 10 June 2020, 04:39:54 »
Since we're changing traditions here, on mac keyboards underscore is vertically aligned with + which I think looks excellent and balances the key quite a bit. I bet not many people realise that it is underscore that's above the minus, not vice versa considering that there is a + sign on the right, so I think not going "by the book" with underscore makes a lot of sense.