Author Topic: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set - [Feedback]  (Read 8137 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bobasweatandtears

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 41
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
  • Co-Designer of KAT Great Wave + KAT Space Dust
The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set - [Feedback]
« on: Sun, 16 August 2020, 11:57:55 »

Inspiration
<神奈川沖浪裏>

The Great Wave off Kanagawa (c 1829-1833), is a woodblock print by the ukiyo-e artist Hokusai and is one of the most reproduced and recognisable images of Japanese artwork. World-renowned, it has had a profound influence on Western art culture, but particularly the French Impressionists which in-turn shaped the great wave of European Modernism in the 20th Century. Vincent Van Gogh's Starry Night also clearly shows significant inspiration from it, with him even writing vividly to his brother Theo: Hokusai’s "waves are claws, the boat is caught in them, you can feel it".
In fact, Hokusai's sophisticated uses of rich hues of blue to create this striking design, led to European artists to incorrectly deem the colour blue as idiosyncratically Japanese, and fuelled the "Japonism" craze at the time (the earliest weebs Japanophiles!). The blue in fact was actually European in origin, commonly known as Prussian Blue, and is the first modern synthetic pigment, spreading rapidly around the world, causing reciprocating ripples globally, from Paris to Japan.
More
There's many details to love, such as the intense dramatic tension of the gigantic wave about to break on top of the viewer unfolding in the foreground, to the contrast between the saturated swells and the white crest of foam with its claw-like tendrils. Despite its restrictive palette, it successfully captures a moment in time, portraying the constantly changing movement of the ocean and its vast power. Men in boats appear insignificant amongst the chaos of nature, which even envelops Japan's largest and sacred symbol, Mount Fuji (a focus of Hokusai's spirituality). This referential icon, appears as a diminutive triangle in the distance, where it could be easily missed and mistaken for another ocean wave. This defied traditional Japanese compositions of perspective at the time, and Hokusai thus skillfully blends European structure, with Japanese motifs and techniques into a seamless work of enduring international appeal.

To us, the significant history behind this artwork and the pigment blue highlights the role of cultural exchange at the heart of creative discovery, and to continue to celebrate this spirit, we're using this seascape as inspiration for a keycap set design we think lots of people will also love too.


Design

Besides being a tribute to an ubiquitous artwork of significant cultural influence, we hope that our design is humbly evocative of the vast and infinite seas and sky. From a deep, muted navy hue that transitions to crispy ice-white, we wish to recall the endless beauty of crashing ocean waves, summer skies, and crystalline icebergs. Timeless, enduring, and elegant, blue is able to evoke many different emotions and scenes of nature.




This is currently planned to be offered in the KAT profile; PBT plastic and dye-subbed legends. Few other profiles offer the same kitting compatibility/flexibility. Note that kits outside of the core layouts of 60-100% ANSI are also still a work in progress, as are novelties, which will evidently have heavy Japanese motifs (i.e. Mt Fuji on enter key, Sakura flower etc.).
During development I noticed that there are many keycap set designs that are Japanese themed, and/or Blue, and/or a Gradient pattern. Well you can forget about the rest, cause this manages to cover all of those features in one go!

Triple Threat; true thematic coverage


Kits
Alphas
※ Berlin Blue [Latin]
※ Kanagawa  (神奈川) [Katakana]
Modifiers
※ Swell [Text]
※ Depths [Icon]
ƒ-Row
※ Foam [Standard] ※ Fuji [Kanji]
Number Pad - 数パッド
※ Go (碁) [Arabic] ※ Abacus (算盤) [Kanji]
Other Kits
Soon…
Novelties and kits such as Iso, Spacebar, 40s, Ortho, Ergo, Mac, JIS, etc. are still a work-in-progress


Colours
The pantone codes have been selected, but we are still in process of double-checking and will confirm and post them closer to IC

To Do
※ Further kits, novelties, desk-mats, renders, potential collabs and vendors will naturally develop as the project progresses

※ IC when we have a few more kits, draft novelties ready, and tweaked a few things based on initial feedback

※ Given the versatile theme of the colourway, and it likely being KAT MOQ, if there’s enough interest, we’re also considering secondary novelty kits that can change the theme to something else for those who want a break from the umami, such as nautical, sky, or ice-themed novelties. Note we intend to keep the core focus/primary novelties related to our main inspiration


Feedback Form
We’ve still got a few decisions to make (i.e. name of the set; hiragana sub-legends? blanks-only kit?) so please share your opinions and feedback below
LINK:https://forms.gle/NyivQknZbMXt4qw66

Please let us know what you think below! We’re really excited to hear your thoughts!

Cheers!
BobaSweatandTears and Dudeship


Support
※  Despite being untitled you can still support the project by adding this banner to your signature
Code: [Select]
[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=108136.0][img width=301 height=120]https://i.imgur.com/2uaQhCK.png[/img][/url]※ Discord DMs: BobaSweatandTears#4616 x dudeship#3753

In the mean-time, special thanks to:
※ Hokusai - the OG
More
※ u/Manch455 for his support during the initial conceptualisation of the set
※ Swishy from Keycapdesigner Discord (KAM 80s), and QQMBR (KAT Specimen) for answering so many newbie questions and pointing us in the right direction
※ The Keycapdesigner Discord and those who have contributed to the guides, and resources
※ JSaintS & OneCreativeMind for the icon mods
※ Kidviddy - for answering so many queries about Japanese characters and their meaning
※ Konstantin - in advance, as we’ll likely base our kits off his guidance on KAT Monochrome/Refined
※ Designers of other sets, that we admired afar from, in one way or another: i.e. SA Vilebloom, GMK Masterpiece, and GMK Sumi
※ Ulliam - for partial initial work on Novelties
Thanks for believing that our Magikarp can one day evolve :)
Source: The Great Wave off Kanto, by Missy Pena

Fun Facts
More
※ The term Manga was created by the artist Hokusai
※ Arising from the Edo period, the Great Wave art may be Hokusai’s most famous work, but he didn’t produce the piece until 70 years old, after creating more than 30,000 works of art.
※ The wave print was part of a 36-piece series known as Thirty-Six Views of Mount Fuji.
※ Despite its popularity, the series was not considered great art by Japanese art historians of the time. They viewed uikyo-e as a form of commercial printing – not fine art, beneath consideration for artistic merit. But today, original woodblock prints are beloved by museums and galleries around the world
※ Hokusai was influenced by Dutch artist's techniques of vanishing point perspective, evidenced by the illusion of depth, and a low horizon line; abandoning  traditional Japanese isometric view, where motifs are scaled according to importance.
※ There are echoes of golden ratio throughout the artwork, where the fractal nature of breaking wave mirrors the mathematical beauty of nature itself.
※ Prussian blue is the traditional "blue" in both blueprints and aizuri-e (藍摺り絵) Japanese woodblock prints.
※ Despite Japan’s strict ban on all imports and exports, the colour "Berlin Blue" found its way to the printmaking industry in Osaka where it was trafficked as “bero”, where its vivid hue, tonal range and foreignness saw it explode in popularity just as it had in Europe.
※ It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines, the most important medications needed in a basic health system used as an antidote for certain kinds of heavy metal poisoning

Cat Great Wave
Source: nekomakicomics
« Last Edit: Mon, 21 September 2020, 18:34:22 by bobasweatandtears »

Offline synthtastic

  • Posts: 89
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 16 August 2020, 12:53:39 »
This looks amazing. Keep up the great work!!!

Offline dudeship

  • Posts: 8
  • Location: England
  • Co-designer and renderer of KAT Great Wave
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 16 August 2020, 13:09:22 »
Thanks man, me and Boba really appreciate it!

Offline ZavaZ86

  • Posts: 10
  • Location: Denmark
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 16 August 2020, 13:35:32 »
No ISO support?

Offline pixelpusher

  • Posts: 3529
  • Location: Tennessee - USA
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 16 August 2020, 13:36:11 »
It's a nice set.  Doesn't look much like the inspiration to me though.  Original artwork is warm and slightly desaturated.  This is cool and stark white.  But I do like the looks of it.

Offline dudeship

  • Posts: 8
  • Location: England
  • Co-designer and renderer of KAT Great Wave
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 16 August 2020, 13:40:09 »
No ISO support?

In case you didn't quite read the post correctly, ISO will be fully supported and will also probably have some dedicated novelties.

Offline bobasweatandtears

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 41
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
  • Co-Designer of KAT Great Wave + KAT Space Dust
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 16 August 2020, 13:48:58 »
It's a nice set.  Doesn't look much like the inspiration to me though.  Original artwork is warm and slightly desaturated.  This is cool and stark white.  But I do like the looks of it.
Thank you for your comment!
Fair point, but with how old the artwork is, with time the original colours have presumably faded, and I choose to believe the artist likely intended the colours to be vibrant & vivid. We've simply decided to take our artistic license to interpret the Great Wave as if it was a fresh print. The stark white better evokes an image of the wave itself in real-life anyhow too!

Offline synthtastic

  • Posts: 89
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 16 August 2020, 14:29:00 »
I already filled out the form, but it would be neat to have some blue accent arrows / maybe enter key, besides blue spacebars. I know it breaks the gradient, but having the choice to make certain keys stand out is nice imo.

Offline HardlyFlaccid

  • Posts: 4
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 16 August 2020, 18:14:30 »
I love the color scheme as well as the possible kanji numbering! I'd probably buy the base latin alphas kit with the kanji numbers when this goes to groupbuy (since I'm fairly confident it will because of how good it looks). Can't wait to see it released and will definitely snag it up once it is!

Offline bobasweatandtears

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 41
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
  • Co-Designer of KAT Great Wave + KAT Space Dust
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 16 August 2020, 21:37:52 »
I already filled out the form, but it would be neat to have some blue accent arrows / maybe enter key, besides blue spacebars. I know it breaks the gradient, but having the choice to make certain keys stand out is nice imo.
Thanks for the suggestion. We'll experiment around with accent keys and see how they look! I've previously experienced breaking the gradient before with other sets, and it usually doesn't get a great reaction, but we'll see how it looks. Maybe this colourway is more forgiving to trying it out.

I love the color scheme as well as the possible kanji numbering! I'd probably buy the base latin alphas kit with the kanji numbers when this goes to groupbuy (since I'm fairly confident it will because of how good it looks). Can't wait to see it released and will definitely snag it up once it is!
Thanks for positivity :). Yes, Kanji numbers are fire. It's a design element I've kinda pushed and aimed for earlier on.

Offline fluctuscraft

  • Posts: 1
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 16 August 2020, 22:34:06 »
made https://www.instagram.com/p/CDVvGS4AhjJ/ a few weeks back. would be great if I could get someone to encapsulate this to go along with this set

Offline bobasweatandtears

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 41
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
  • Co-Designer of KAT Great Wave + KAT Space Dust
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 17 August 2020, 00:27:19 »
Most of you probably came here by the reddit link: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/iawoah/the_great_wave_off_kanagawa_%E7%A5%9E%E5%A5%88%E5%B7%9D%E6%B2%96%E6%B5%AA%E8%A3%8F_concept_keycap/
So thanks for sparing your short attention span to read through our long post!
Over 200 feedback form responses in less than 12 hours! Thanks so much to those who've filled it out. Ut's been really helpful/enlightening for us!
Latin + Hiragana sub-legends will be a definite alpha option, as they're just as popular as Katakana alphas. We hear you and will also do kits such as Iso, ortho, 40s, mac, ergo!

made https://www.instagram.com/p/CDVvGS4AhjJ/ a few weeks back. would be great if I could get someone to encapsulate this to go along with this set
Ah what an appropriate match for an artisan. I have definitely have quite a list of artisan makers I intend to reach out to for collaborations!

Offline gutsack

  • Posts: 193
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 17 August 2020, 01:20:51 »
I am 100% in.

Offline dudeship

  • Posts: 8
  • Location: England
  • Co-designer and renderer of KAT Great Wave
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 17 August 2020, 02:45:39 »
I am 100% in.

We are really happy to hear to hear that man!

Offline nuttykids3

  • Posts: 9
  • Location: VA
    • Twitch
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 17 August 2020, 07:18:45 »
Iím really liking this set. Nice work!

Offline Anthixious

  • Posts: 162
  • Location: Ohio, USA
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 17 August 2020, 14:33:19 »
I love the blue shading going on, you have a good cap set going here. I did submit an IC form detailing suggestion(s)  :thumb:

Offline tsundeoku

  • Posts: 12
  • Location: Japan
    • 積読網
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 17 August 2020, 20:55:49 »
Added a vote for JIS support to the feedback form. It would be a nice gesture considering how heavily Japan-themed this set is.

Offline bobasweatandtears

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 41
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
  • Co-Designer of KAT Great Wave + KAT Space Dust
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 18 August 2020, 01:20:14 »
Iím really liking this set. Nice work!
Thank you!
I love the blue shading going on, you have a good cap set going here. I did submit an IC form detailing suggestion(s)  :thumb:
Thanks for feedback. We are looking at all suggestions!
Added a vote for JIS support to the feedback form. It would be a nice gesture considering how heavily Japan-themed this set is.
No problems. I really want to support JIS layout given the theme and KAT MOQ being able to let us cater to this. I have been talking to Kidviddy (the resident expert of JIS layout on Geekhack) on how to best implement this!

Offline Surface

  • Posts: 7
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 18 August 2020, 07:34:42 »
so this is how you buy more than 1 keyset

Offline HardlyFlaccid

  • Posts: 4
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 19 August 2020, 13:30:17 »
One thing that popped in my mind: any chance of making the top row numbers have the kanji characters as well? It would pop out and work really well for keyboards that don't have numpads (like my 65%).

Offline NotFai

  • Posts: 26
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 19 August 2020, 21:24:40 »
I am definitely in. Great job on this set and really looking forward to any further developments, especially the novelties and the deskmat :thumb:

Offline NorthTidal

  • Posts: 6
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 20 August 2020, 14:54:34 »
I love ocean themed keysets, count me in!

Offline bobasweatandtears

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 41
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
  • Co-Designer of KAT Great Wave + KAT Space Dust
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 20 August 2020, 19:34:07 »
I am definitely in. Great job on this set and really looking forward to any further developments, especially the novelties and the deskmat :thumb:
:thumb: We're fleshing out the rest of the kits, and our novelty designer has shown us some promising drafts
One thing that popped in my mind: any chance of making the top row numbers have the kanji characters as well? It would pop out and work really well for keyboards that don't have numpads (like my 65%).
The R4 number row will already have Katakana characters (e.g. https://i.imgur.com/5VUtq0R.png) for Katakana alphas, nor do I see those with who go for Alphas with sublegends (e.g. https://i.imgur.com/6d87OWd.jpg) requiring this either. I suppose you're going for Latin Alphas, however interested in R4 Kanji? It would be a rather small simple kit, so I am not against this being offered if there's demand for it, so I might run a poll in that case.

so this is how you buy more than 1 keyset
Thanks :) Browsing Geekhack is dangerous for the wallet.

I love ocean themed keysets, count me in!
Haha love your username and profile pic. <3 ocean

Offline mrvco

  • Posts: 19
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 20 August 2020, 22:28:50 »
No ISO support?

In case you didn't quite read the post correctly, ISO will be fully supported and will also probably have some dedicated novelties.

I know there are only so many colors that can be included and I think the stark white provides a nice contrast.  However a hue keying off the sky (reminiscent of Washi Paper) would be amazing.  Of course you might be able to achieve a similar effect by typing on the white keycaps while eating Doritos.

Offline bobasweatandtears

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 41
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
  • Co-Designer of KAT Great Wave + KAT Space Dust
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 22 August 2020, 19:20:03 »
I know there are only so many colors that can be included and I think the stark white provides a nice contrast.  However a hue keying off the sky (reminiscent of Washi Paper) would be amazing.  Of course you might be able to achieve a similar effect by typing on the white keycaps while eating Doritos.
Appreciate the lovely idea, that's very in-touch with the history of Japanese paper-making, but as you acknowledge, we can only include so many colours. We're likely sticking to our stark white due to clean/sharp contrast it provides against the blues.
Great tip re: Doritos XD

Offline bobasweatandtears

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 41
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
  • Co-Designer of KAT Great Wave + KAT Space Dust
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set (Untitled) - [Feedback]
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 22 August 2020, 20:07:52 »
Feedback Form v1 Results

Responses: 470
Emails collected for notification of IC/GB: 384

Great Wave it is! This was actually our first name idea, but we drifted to Nami, then wavered on Tsunami/Onami. Pleasantly surprised Kanagawa got love despite its lengthy name.

Hiragana sub-legends ended up a lot more popular than I thought despite having no renders of this. Unfortunately I only realised a bit later that Katakana sub-legends are potential option for those who prefer the Katakana aesthetic, but still wanted English. We will likely run this question again on IC launch to get a better idea of the distribution of preferences, however suspect that ultimately we're going to have to offer all 4 options as alphas.

Icons dominate predictably

Kit preferences are fairly typical of community representation. South, French, Colevrak and JIS rank pretty low. Note that we are aiming to run JIS regardless due to this set being a homage to a classic Japanese artwork, but it will likely only be compatible with katakana-only alphas, and latin-only alphas. JIS layout for sub-legends are too messy.

Kanji variant for F-row more popular than I thought. It was implemented somewhat last-minute after seeing how well the Numpad turned out. As simple as it looks, it took a while to decide on the legends (We were considering GMK Masterpiece's legends, but ultimately not a fan)

This was to convince ourselves this would be the effort. WIP

Not an unsubstantial amount of ppl would like blanks being offered. Ultimately it would come down to the price of this kit for it to be worth it

Normal ombre of darkblue->white wins. Quite a few comments expressing interest in south-paw dark blue variant, and due to personal bias, we will likely offer that, but only in Kanji form. Given unpopularity of white, unsure if that should remain on offer, or keep, but only in Kanji variation

Kanji has the edge, both will be offered

Padlock will be offered in all numpad as Numlock legend. We forgot to poll it, but we will offer 1 alternative for each variation too (NUM for standard, and the Japanese Character for number in the Kanji variant)

Only arrow legend for Enter will remain

Ended up being closer than we thought. Will likely offer both, for the 2u zero key


After the popular creatures edition idea of secondary novelties, the rest of the themes have a fairly even distribution of preference, so it will likely depend on our execution of the novelty ideas


I hope some of the data from this feedback keeps you informed of the decisions we make re: kitting and legend choices, and also an interesting insight of the MK communities preferences on several minor elements.



Offline tsundeoku

  • Posts: 12
  • Location: Japan
    • 積読網
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set - [Feedback]
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 10:17:20 »
JIS layout for sub-legends are too messy.

Could you elaborate on this? JIS with kana sublegends would require 15 unique key legends as opposed to 14 for Latin-only JIS (because the left bracket key overlaps with other layouts), but I'm not sure what is meant by "messy" here.

Latin-only JIS sets are good to see, too, considering how few of them there are, but I would like to understand the reasoning here.

Offline Astralice

  • Posts: 7
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set - [Feedback]
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 14:45:53 »
KAM Aquanauts might be a good set to get some inspiration from
It never made it to sale

Offline bobasweatandtears

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 41
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
  • Co-Designer of KAT Great Wave + KAT Space Dust
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set - [Feedback]
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 01:29:06 »
JIS layout for sub-legends are too messy.

Could you elaborate on this? JIS with kana sublegends would require 15 unique key legends as opposed to 14 for Latin-only JIS (because the left bracket key overlaps with other layouts), but I'm not sure what is meant by "messy" here.

Latin-only JIS sets are good to see, too, considering how few of them there are, but I would like to understand the reasoning here.

Referring to this KLE template for reference by Kidviddy (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/ec19d77db72f09309c847cb138ad20b2). If you see the R4 row of "JIS Latin+katakana subs", these legends for those keys will not look consistent aesthetically alongside the planned standard katakana R4 latin + hiragana/katakana subs for keys 1, 3, 4, 5. I could force it, but I would rather not. This is a personal aesthetic preference re: how cluttered sublegends already look and wanting aesthetic consistency where possible re: legends.
[This is partially why our F-row is mainly monolegend, and why I just did not copy GMK Masterpiece's F-row. It's a beautiful set, but I did not totally jive with that decision of F-row legends. From the combination of roman numerals alongside Japanese legends, and it being 3-4 legends per F-key, which just contrasts the alphas which are katakana monolegend.]
I also do not want to have too many SKUs for just JIS-only; we are already looking to include JIS latin-only as that's not often seen, but apparently more preferred by Japanese people* [edit: see Kidviddy's clarification, likely more preferred by enthusiasts], and will also be adding a JIS Mods and Spaces kit (the 3 keys for JIS katakana will likely be baked into it). Thus we're making an executive call to limit the number of JIS-related kits to 2 in total, as we deem the amount of interest shown in JIS is not high enough to justify 3 SKUs dedicated to this niche layout.
« Last Edit: Wed, 26 August 2020, 21:32:46 by bobasweatandtears »

Offline bobasweatandtears

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 41
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
  • Co-Designer of KAT Great Wave + KAT Space Dust
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set - [Feedback]
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 01:47:50 »
KAM Aquanauts might be a good set to get some inspiration from
It never made it to sale
What sort of inspiration would you suggest I get from it?
I do think it's a lovely aquatic themed idea, but I'm hesitant to copy/lift anything directly without the original designer's permission. I'm happy to DM and ask though, but what did you like in particular about it that is possible to translate to this set?

Offline kidviddy

  • Posts: 59
  • Location: California
    • 駄日記
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set - [Feedback]
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 10:13:59 »
Referring to this KLE template for reference by Kidviddy (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/ec19d77db72f09309c847cb138ad20b2). If you see the R4 row of "JIS Latin+katakana subs", these legends for those keys will not look consistent aesthetically alongside the planned standard katakana R4 latin + hiragana/katakana subs for keys 1, 3, 4, 5. I could force it, but I would rather not. This is a personal aesthetic preference re: how cluttered sublegends already look and wanting aesthetic consistency where possible re: legends.

To be clear, the "cluttered-ness" of having four legends per key on certain keys is not specific to JIS.  Where I have 6/&/オ/ォ, for example, an ANSI sublegend set would have 6/^/オ/ォ.  The only difference is the symbol that accompanies the "6".

If you are going to have a sublegend set for ANSI, you will have to make a decision about whether you want four legends per key on those keys which have them, or if you want to drop one of the legends for a "cleaner" look (sublegend sets are never going to look totally clean, though).  You could also keep the fourth legend in the case of ヲ, which is actually a different letter to the ワ it accompanies, but drop the smaller versions of characters like ォ, ャ, and so on, since the larger versions of the same characters sort of speak for themselves.

These are aesthetic choices which are independent of the choice about whether to include a JIS sublegends kit.  I'm sorry if my original template didn't make that clear!

I also do not want to have too many SKUs for just JIS-only; we are already looking to include JIS latin-only as that's not often seen, but apparently more preferred by Japanese people, and will also be adding a JIS Mods and Spaces kit (the 3 keys for JIS katakana will likely be baked into it). Thus we're making an executive call to limit the number of JIS-related kits to 2 in total, as we deem the amount of interest shown in JIS is not high enough to justify 3 SKUs dedicated to this niche layout.

This decision is entirely up to you as the runner and not unreasonable.  I just want to clarify that when I said that in Japan "mono Latin legends without any hiragana/katakana sublegends are very popular and generally thought of as cleaner/cooler-looking than the traditional sublegend designs," I am not necessarily making the claim that they are the most popular; if you look at keyboards in Japan in general it is clear that the overwhelming majority do include kana sublegends, which implies that sublegends are indeed popular!  However, I expect that in many of those cases the user doesn't actually care and is just using the keyboard that came with their computer.  Amongst enthusiasts, I believe Latin monolegend sets are very popular as evidenced by how common they are (even for JIS layout) on Filco/Archiss/HHKB/etc. keyboards.  I do not have enough data to make the bolder claim that they are the most popular, but I do stand by my original statement.

Anyway, none of this goes against anything you've said, and I for one am very pleased to see consideration of JIS support in a Latin monolegend set!  I just wanted to clarify some of the things I have said previously in case they were misleading.

Offline bobasweatandtears

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 41
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
  • Co-Designer of KAT Great Wave + KAT Space Dust
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set - [Feedback]
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 21:28:58 »
Thanks for your clarification on those points Kidviddy! I appreciate your valuable input throughout on JIS layout compatibility.
In essence, we'd like to keep things as simple as possible, where possible, and so will choose not to offer JIS compatibility for Alpha sub-legends. It will only be possible for monolegend katakana and latin alphas.
« Last Edit: Wed, 26 August 2020, 21:33:31 by bobasweatandtears »

Offline VXQN

  • Posts: 150
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set - [Feedback]
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 27 August 2020, 06:23:02 »
Absoluely love the set. Great work on the gradient especially, a lot of gradient sets don't look very "smooth" but this absolutely does (looking at you GMK Nova).

Offline Willtato

  • Posts: 31
  • Location: London
  • I like small Keyboards
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set - [Feedback]
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 28 August 2020, 18:47:57 »
Love the idea.  Waiting for the 40s option.
Also waiting to see how the novelties turn out.

I'm not a fan of the MIZU novelties, and so I hope that these novelties will have a different take.  Having Ulliam design them, I'll have my hopes up on that. 

Edit: saw the potential novelties in the IC form - I like them a lot. 

Sent from my HD1913 using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: Fri, 28 August 2020, 18:55:39 by Willtato »

Offline HardlyFlaccid

  • Posts: 4
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set - [Feedback]
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 09 September 2020, 13:49:17 »
Is there a discord I can join for future updates? Already planning boards and cables around this set  :D

Offline jkychan00

  • Posts: 2
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set - [Feedback]
« Reply #35 on: Fri, 11 September 2020, 03:13:44 »
basekit way too similar to SA Jadeite

Offline pandaman97

  • Posts: 11
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set - [Feedback]
« Reply #36 on: Mon, 21 September 2020, 03:07:04 »
Can you make a kits with no gradient? Like full blue or gradient with no white. I'm personal prefer white only or not white at all. Thanks btw. I'm still in no matter what lol  ;D

Offline bobasweatandtears

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 41
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
  • Co-Designer of KAT Great Wave + KAT Space Dust
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set - [Feedback]
« Reply #37 on: Mon, 21 September 2020, 23:17:46 »
Absoluely love the set. Great work on the gradient especially, a lot of gradient sets don't look very "smooth" but this absolutely does (looking at you GMK Nova).
Thanks! We spent a lot of time trying to get the right shade of mid blues so the transition was smooth

Love the idea.  Waiting for the 40s option.
Also waiting to see how the novelties turn out.
I'm not a fan of the MIZU novelties, and so I hope that these novelties will have a different take.  Having Ulliam design them, I'll have my hopes up on that. 
Edit: saw the potential novelties in the IC form - I like them a lot. 
Sent from my HD1913 using Tapatalk
There definitely will be 40s
Mizu novelties are from the Avatar Last Airbender designs, so if you no attachment to that show, I can see why one wouldn't be a fan. Ulliam initially worked on some, but had to unfortunately withdraw his commitment due to his workload, so we're currently in the process of hiring someone else (hence the recent hold-up)

Is there a discord I can join for future updates? Already planning boards and cables around this set  :D
Currently no discord, but will plan to make one there is an official IC posted. Currently there is no need yet. I am also planning boards and cables around this set too :D

basekit way too similar to SA Jadeite
Jadeite is a great set, but I think ours is different on multiple fronts. a) That set is green, this is blue, b) That set is SA, this set is KAT, c) Their inspiration is the jadeite cabbage in Taiwan, this is based on the artwork the Great Wave off Kanagawa, d) This set will have katakana alphas, hiragana sublegends, kanji options for numpad and f-rows, and novelties + deskmats will be vastly different.

Can you make a kits with no gradient? Like full blue or gradient with no white. I'm personal prefer white only or not white at all. Thanks btw. I'm still in no matter what lol  ;D
Like full dark blue only? or full white-only? Or just a gradient that extends only into a lighter blue? We will keep alternative concepts out of the core colourway/pattern in mind, but given how many child kits we'd already have, it would potentially come in a TKL-only kit option to avoid over-complicating anything else.

Offline pandaman97

  • Posts: 11
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set - [Feedback]
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 22 September 2020, 03:04:19 »
Can you make a kits with no gradient? Like full blue or gradient with no white. I'm personal prefer white only or not white at all. Thanks btw. I'm still in no matter what lol  ;D
Like full dark blue only? or full white-only? Or just a gradient that extends only into a lighter blue? We will keep alternative concepts out of the core colourway/pattern in mind, but given how many child kits we'd already have, it would potentially come in a TKL-only kit option to avoid over-complicating anything else.
[/quote]
Full dark blue only or gradient into lighter blue would be awesome. With just two alpha kits and two modifiers kits right now, I hope you can make it not just TKL-only, because these kits with hiragana may bring the GMK Striker vibe in and many people will loves it (including me lol ;D)

Offline bobasweatandtears

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 41
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
  • Co-Designer of KAT Great Wave + KAT Space Dust
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set - [Feedback]
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 22 September 2020, 08:06:12 »
Can you make a kits with no gradient? Like full blue or gradient with no white. I'm personal prefer white only or not white at all. Thanks btw. I'm still in no matter what lol  ;D
Full dark blue only or gradient into lighter blue would be awesome. With just two alpha kits and two modifiers kits right now, I hope you can make it not just TKL-only, because these kits with hiragana may bring the GMK Striker vibe in and many people will loves it (including me lol ;D)
Hmmm maybe we can offer mod and alpha variants, but I'd be hesitant to extend these alt colourways to also cover 40s, ortho, ergo etc.

Offline pandaman97

  • Posts: 11
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set - [Feedback]
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 22 September 2020, 09:12:32 »
Can you make a kits with no gradient? Like full blue or gradient with no white. I'm personal prefer white only or not white at all. Thanks btw. I'm still in no matter what lol  ;D
Full dark blue only or gradient into lighter blue would be awesome. With just two alpha kits and two modifiers kits right now, I hope you can make it not just TKL-only, because these kits with hiragana may bring the GMK Striker vibe in and many people will loves it (including me lol ;D)
Hmmm maybe we can offer mod and alpha variants, but I'd be hesitant to extend these alt colourways to also cover 40s, ortho, ergo etc.
Glads you said that. I'm totally in. So as you said with Kidviddy, there will be no sub legend hiragana or katakana, only latin or katakana? Hope you will change your mind, katakana only make it a little "sharp" to me,if no sub legend, hiragana only would be nicer.

Offline boneandbee

  • Posts: 3
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set - [Feedback]
« Reply #41 on: Tue, 22 September 2020, 11:06:27 »
The gradient on this one is really cool - it makes this set very unique. Really lovely colour choices, too.

Offline bobasweatandtears

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 41
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
  • Co-Designer of KAT Great Wave + KAT Space Dust
Re: The Great Wave off Kanagawa inspired Keycap Set - [Feedback]
« Reply #42 on: Tue, 22 September 2020, 20:35:37 »
Can you make a kits with no gradient? Like full blue or gradient with no white. I'm personal prefer white only or not white at all. Thanks btw. I'm still in no matter what lol  ;D
Full dark blue only or gradient into lighter blue would be awesome. With just two alpha kits and two modifiers kits right now, I hope you can make it not just TKL-only, because these kits with hiragana may bring the GMK Striker vibe in and many people will loves it (including me lol ;D)
Hmmm maybe we can offer mod and alpha variants, but I'd be hesitant to extend these alt colourways to also cover 40s, ortho, ergo etc.
Glads you said that. I'm totally in. So as you said with Kidviddy, there will be no sub legend hiragana or katakana, only latin or katakana? Hope you will change your mind, katakana only make it a little "sharp" to me,if no sub legend, hiragana only would be nicer.
I can't yet promise these alt colourways yet, but I hope we can. There might be hiragana sublegends given their popularity. The comment I made about with kidviddy was more in regards to catering JIS layout specifically.

The gradient on this one is really cool - it makes this set very unique. Really lovely colour choices, too.
Thank you <3