Author Topic: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes  (Read 28030 times)

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Offline grundlemere

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #100 on: Mon, 12 October 2020, 21:58:44 »
Nice set! Excited to see a full Chinese GMK set. But why bother with just a few Simplified Chinese characters in the base mods, especially if there is going to be a Traditional Chinese mods kit? It's costly and inconsistent.

To get the molds made to add to the GMK library for posterity, mostly, and because SC users outnumber TC users about 25:1.

Online noodleman

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #101 on: Mon, 12 October 2020, 22:11:55 »
I'm sorry I sounded accusatory.  I re-read my post and it sounded pretty bad.  But you gave me the answer I wanted to know.  You're doing things right :thumb:

quick question, are the artists you took the artwork from involved in these deskmats?  Are they aware of the changes you've made to their art?

https://www.art.com/products/p48208011469-sa-i10827985/baoyan-chinese-landscape-watercolor-painting.htm?upi=Q1AMEO20&PODConfigID=4986602&sOrigID=965450

https://elinali.com/ink-1

So that’s an interesting way to frame a question. I purchased the artwork from them, and I purchased it with an enhanced license that allows commercial reuse and merchandising.

Offline grundlemere

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #102 on: Mon, 12 October 2020, 22:18:42 »
I'm sorry I sounded accusatory.  I re-read my post and it sounded pretty bad.  But you gave me the answer I wanted to know.  You're doing things right :thumb:

quick question, are the artists you took the artwork from involved in these deskmats?  Are they aware of the changes you've made to their art?

https://www.art.com/products/p48208011469-sa-i10827985/baoyan-chinese-landscape-watercolor-painting.htm?upi=Q1AMEO20&PODConfigID=4986602&sOrigID=965450

https://elinali.com/ink-1

So that’s an interesting way to frame a question. I purchased the artwork from them, and I purchased it with an enhanced license that allows commercial reuse and merchandising.

I appreciate you walking that back a little. I do understand why it’s critical to ensure that artists are fairly compensated for their art. I would be furious if someone used my work without agreement.

Ideally, of course, I would have commissioned original work just for the deskmats, but these pieces are just as beautiful as any I could have commissioned, and the artists were fairly compensated, while still retaining rights to sell them again. Of course, I would love to have done it myself, but I’m not much of a Shanshui painter...  :-X

Offline ZongZiWang

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #103 on: Tue, 13 October 2020, 00:07:11 »
Love the accent keys! But really wish it’s in the base kit or corresponding kit rather than in the novelties kit..

Offline hottrout

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #104 on: Tue, 13 October 2020, 05:55:17 »
Those desk mats are sublime.
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Offline grundlemere

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #105 on: Tue, 13 October 2020, 07:38:23 »
Out of curiosity, what's the -looking legend on the backslash keys for?

Edit: Oh (and I believe I've seen this asked before somewhere in the Houhai thread, but I can't remember the answer), what's the R2 1u Home (行首) key for?

That punctuation mark is the Chinese equivalent of a serial comma. Modern Chinese uses western commas too, but this one is particularly used to separate items or actions in a series.

The R2 home key is total personal preference. Those of us who do a lot of text editing may prefer to have their delete key across from backspace, and their home/end keys on r2 and r3 below it. I tend to use a lot more home/end than pg up/dn, so I have the latter on a layer. 65s are sort of the most common form factor at the moment, and the nav cluster is small so the keys you choose matter most. It’s just an option I don’t see often enough and because I’m the designer and it’s my preference, I’ve included it.

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #106 on: Tue, 13 October 2020, 07:52:25 »
That punctuation mark is the Chinese equivalent of a serial comma. Modern Chinese uses western commas too, but this one is particularly used to separate items or actions in a series.

The R2 home key is total personal preference. Those of us who do a lot of text editing may prefer to have their delete key across from backspace, and their home/end keys on r2 and r3 below it. I tend to use a lot more home/end than pg up/dn, so I have the latter on a layer. 65s are sort of the most common form factor at the moment, and the nav cluster is small so the keys you choose matter most. It’s just an option I don’t see often enough and because I’m the designer and it’s my preference, I’ve included it.

Sounds good, thanks for the explanation and the clarification. By the way, the Drop ALT, which is arguably the most common 65% board out in the wild, also has Home on R2 by default (together with R3 PgUp, R4 PgDn), so in doing this you're also covering users of that layout.
« Last Edit: Tue, 13 October 2020, 07:58:30 by konstantin »

Offline Audiobs

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #107 on: Tue, 13 October 2020, 16:22:38 »
Nice set! Excited to see a full Chinese GMK set. But why bother with just a few Simplified Chinese characters in the base mods, especially if there is going to be a Traditional Chinese mods kit? It's costly and inconsistent.

To get the molds made to add to the GMK library for posterity, mostly, and because SC users outnumber TC users about 25:1.

Right of course. So why not make it SC? Why only a few characters in SC? I am just trying to understand since I don't know how to type in Chinese, not being critical of your design. Thanks!

Offline chris_1865

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Deskmats up
« Reply #108 on: Wed, 14 October 2020, 04:12:49 »
Finally a GMK changje input keycap...Hope the base kit include TC instead of SC

---

Edit for second inpression(?) of the TC kit

It's a little weird to see SC words straightly convert to TC imo since TC's translation words may be different from SC (e.g. Print Screen is better translate into 截圖/擷圖). It would be better to let TC & SC have its own translated words. AFAIK the translation of ins/del/PgUP/Pgdown/Home/End is both correct in TC or SC, and menu may be better translate into 功能 in TC

btw the 「柳」 problem in numpad happened again lol. 6 should be 「陸」.

Thanks friend, we’ll get these legends fixed. If you have any other translation fixes for TC, please share them with me at grundlemere#1126 on Discord and we will run them through a couple of our partners. Want to make sure they are right.

Ugh sorry about the numpad, not sure how that one slipped by us again but you’re the first person to notice it. I even know that character means “willow.” We’ll add both these points to the kit changes for next round.

oh sh!t I haven't seen this reply until now coz I didn't check geekhack everyday… Seems I'm late. I guess I'd rather put some opinions here instead.

Glad to see the translation improvement! (Especially the numpad 6 lol) However I still find something looks like haven't been translate yet in TC numpad part. The capital number letter of 2, 3& 6 are different between sc & tc, which should be 貳/叄/陸 instead of the sc one. Also is there any reason for both tc & sc numpad have the same numpad 7 key? I don't see any needs for 2 numpad 7 key imo……
 

Offline grundlemere

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #109 on: Thu, 15 October 2020, 11:59:53 »
Nice set! Excited to see a full Chinese GMK set. But why bother with just a few Simplified Chinese characters in the base mods, especially if there is going to be a Traditional Chinese mods kit? It's costly and inconsistent.

To get the molds made to add to the GMK library for posterity, mostly, and because SC users outnumber TC users about 25:1.

Right of course. So why not make it SC? Why only a few characters in SC? I am just trying to understand since I don't know how to type in Chinese, not being critical of your design. Thanks!

According to our IC responses and market insights from our partners in Asia, there's strong demand for both, and we expect for there to be strong demand for both in future GBs.

Offline Makish

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #110 on: Thu, 15 October 2020, 15:07:19 »
Oh man, I think I might actually buy every kit with this one. Good luck!

Offline Firebear31

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #111 on: Fri, 16 October 2020, 04:30:03 »
Nice set! Excited to see a full Chinese GMK set. But why bother with just a few Simplified Chinese characters in the base mods, especially if there is going to be a Traditional Chinese mods kit? It's costly and inconsistent.

To get the molds made to add to the GMK library for posterity, mostly, and because SC users outnumber TC users about 25:1.

Right of course. So why not make it SC? Why only a few characters in SC? I am just trying to understand since I don't know how to type in Chinese, not being critical of your design. Thanks!

According to our IC responses and market insights from our partners in Asia, there's strong demand for both, and we expect for there to be strong demand for both in future GBs.

I just asked my GF and she is typing in Pinyin (like myself). She's from Guangdong. There's an even harder version of typing than cangjie which is by strokes instead of radicals. I meanif people are used to write like this okay :D but for me it's hard to think of like writing the word I guess, instead of just typing the pinyin and picking the right word. But it still looks cool :D  Can't imagine writing latin letters by strokes xD Then we could make 30% keyboards with all functions I suppose.

Would be curious what the average age is of the people "demanding it". I guess the young are more used to pinyin now due to mobile phones.
« Last Edit: Fri, 16 October 2020, 04:36:27 by Firebear31 »

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #112 on: Fri, 16 October 2020, 10:09:53 »
Negative Space 留白: the spacebars kit

Show Image

Includes non-traditional spacebars and spacekeys, as well as variant WS1 bars for a distinctive touch.

I'm not sure that the inclusion of white 3u and 2u spacekeys is a necessity. Users would probably get more mileage out of a second black 3u space (for split 3u+3u or 3u+1u+3u setups), and the white 2u space can probably be removed outright seeing as ortho support in base is incomplete, and there is already a black 2u space in the kit.

On a separate note, you can probably remove the second R4 1u Ctrl key and R1 1u Backspace from the base kit.
Two 1u Ctrl keys are not used on any modern ≥60% boards, only ortho 40%. I believe users (especially in China) would get a lot more mileage out of a R4 1u Shift key, which (together with 2u Shift) is used by the GK64 and similar 60% layouts with arrows, which are very popular in the East.
As for 1u Backspace, not very many boards at all use this size. A notable one is Minila, but this set lacks a couple of keys to be able to support that layout (R4 1.75u Control, R4 1u Shift, among others).
« Last Edit: Fri, 16 October 2020, 10:11:39 by konstantin »

Offline santela

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #113 on: Fri, 16 October 2020, 11:19:17 »
Negative Space 留白: the spacebars kit

Show Image

Includes non-traditional spacebars and spacekeys, as well as variant WS1 bars for a distinctive touch.

I'm not sure that the inclusion of white 3u and 2u spacekeys is a necessity. Users would probably get more mileage out of a second black 3u space (for split 3u+3u or 3u+1u+3u setups), and the white 2u space can probably be removed outright seeing as ortho support in base is incomplete, and there is already a black 2u space in the kit.

On a separate note, you can probably remove the second R4 1u Ctrl key and R1 1u Backspace from the base kit.
Two 1u Ctrl keys are not used on any modern ≥60% boards, only ortho 40%. I believe users (especially in China) would get a lot more mileage out of a R4 1u Shift key, which (together with 2u Shift) is used by the GK64 and similar 60% layouts with arrows, which are very popular in the East.
As for 1u Backspace, not very many boards at all use this size. A notable one is Minila, but this set lacks a couple of keys to be able to support that layout (R4 1.75u Control, R4 1u Shift, among others).

I think the 1u backspace is a good thing to have, since some 60% board users use them. I guess most can replace it with the delete key, but it's not exactly the same. Rama is the worst offender here, their 60% and 65% hotswap pcbs all have 1u backspace (which I hate, but some people might still need them)

Offline santela

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #114 on: Fri, 16 October 2020, 11:34:53 »
Nice set! Excited to see a full Chinese GMK set. But why bother with just a few Simplified Chinese characters in the base mods, especially if there is going to be a Traditional Chinese mods kit? It's costly and inconsistent.

To get the molds made to add to the GMK library for posterity, mostly, and because SC users outnumber TC users about 25:1.

Right of course. So why not make it SC? Why only a few characters in SC? I am just trying to understand since I don't know how to type in Chinese, not being critical of your design. Thanks!

According to our IC responses and market insights from our partners in Asia, there's strong demand for both, and we expect for there to be strong demand for both in future GBs.

I just asked my GF and she is typing in Pinyin (like myself). She's from Guangdong. There's an even harder version of typing than cangjie which is by strokes instead of radicals. I meanif people are used to write like this okay :D but for me it's hard to think of like writing the word I guess, instead of just typing the pinyin and picking the right word. But it still looks cool :D  Can't imagine writing latin letters by strokes xD Then we could make 30% keyboards with all functions I suppose.

Would be curious what the average age is of the people "demanding it". I guess the young are more used to pinyin now due to mobile phones.

I can answer this. What your girlfriend is talking about is called WuBi, and it's a pretty old typing method, I remember it being fairly popular in the 90's in mainland China, but it's something you actually have to learn how to use and remember which strokes go with which keys. There are keyboards out there with WuBi legends on them, but they look very busy and not aesthetically pleasing at all, also pretty much impossible to make as doubleshot keycaps. I'm sure there are probably people still using it but I honestly don't know anyone who actually does anymore. Even my relatives who are 70 years old use pinyin exclusively, since everyone is typing on their phones nowadays and pinyin is just much easier. I've heard people say typing on WuBi can be a lot faster than using pinyin once you are proficient, but I am pretty skeptical about that. There is also another typing method called ZhengMa, which nobody uses and I have zero knowledge of.

Here's a picture of the WuBi keycaps atrocity:


Offline wynects

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #115 on: Sat, 17 October 2020, 04:44:56 »
Hey dude, both of the deskmats look sooooooo sick! Definitely will get them! 等不及了!

Offline prizeS

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #116 on: Sun, 18 October 2020, 06:52:32 »
Hey dude, both of the deskmats look sooooooo sick! Definitely will get them! 等不及了!

在等多一年吧  :))
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Offline snelltrail

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #117 on: Mon, 19 October 2020, 16:41:52 »
Nice set! Excited to see a full Chinese GMK set. But why bother with just a few Simplified Chinese characters in the base mods, especially if there is going to be a Traditional Chinese mods kit? It's costly and inconsistent.

To get the molds made to add to the GMK library for posterity, mostly, and because SC users outnumber TC users about 25:1.

Right of course. So why not make it SC? Why only a few characters in SC? I am just trying to understand since I don't know how to type in Chinese, not being critical of your design. Thanks!

Just wanted to add in answer to this question: some characters are the same in traditional and simplified. That's why only some of the characters are different between the simplified and traditional mod base kits.

Offline boneandbee

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #118 on: Mon, 19 October 2020, 20:26:15 »
The desk mats and novelties on this are exquisite! So beautiful!

Offline grundlemere

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #119 on: Tue, 20 October 2020, 18:06:47 »
Thanks to everyone for the positive (and constructively critical) feedback! We are rocking and rolling on getting our quotes and art checks for doubleshot mold machining from GMK via Cannonkeys.

Latest thing I wanted to show off is our GMK Shanshui x Digital Carpentry wrist rest prototypes. Michael has been my partner and sounding board since the very beginning, and I’m super happy with his work as always. (I think I have 8 wrist rests from him!?) He will offer as always a range of rare woods, shapes, and custom sizes bearing the Shanshui chop, with an optional red enamel or resin fill. We’re still working out the details but I can’t wait to get the fill work finalized and show you some of our other collabs. The filled one now is intentionally bumpy, as we used a different, more textured version of the art that left some areas unburnt by the engraving laser, but likely the final version will be the cleaner version of the art you see on the darker wood.





Full gallery of shots of both prototypes here

Offline Orca Builds

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #120 on: Tue, 20 October 2020, 18:13:30 »
100% in amazing work

Offline boneandbee

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #121 on: Wed, 21 October 2020, 14:17:18 »
Those wrist rests are amazing!

Offline Firebear31

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #122 on: Thu, 22 October 2020, 11:42:53 »
damn, those wristrests!
Will there be ebony or other dark wood ones?

Offline DigitalCarpentry

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #123 on: Thu, 22 October 2020, 13:10:30 »
Those wrist rests are amazing!

Thanks! It helps when someone takes good photos of them too... :D

Offline DigitalCarpentry

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #124 on: Thu, 22 October 2020, 13:13:00 »
damn, those wristrests!
Will there be ebony or other dark wood ones?

I do have some darker woods such as Wenge and that Peruvian Walnut. They would need to have the enamel/paint fill to show up well against the wood. Ebony would only be a option if someone was willing to pay up front for it seeing as the wood itself is so expensive.

Offline hottrout

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #125 on: Fri, 23 October 2020, 06:32:13 »
OK now in for deskmats and the wrist rests.
I started typing on a Sinclair ZX Spectrum 'human flesh' keyboard in 1980 and I never stopped.

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Offline grundlemere

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #126 on: Fri, 23 October 2020, 10:45:03 »
Glad y'all like the wrist rests! R2 proto of the enamel fill incoming. Want to clean up a little bit there.

Also, happy Friday, just wanted to share something I thought was cool. Now that Graen is a confirmed Iron180 color, this is a real thing that I will have on my desk someday in 2021.



It's the little things in life. Can't wait for either GB.

Offline kokugatsu

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #127 on: Fri, 23 October 2020, 12:35:12 »
The quote 「山水甲天下」 on Karst doesn't really make sense linguistically, I get the inspiration behind it but it would just look like a misquote to a native speaker? Not a complete deal breaker and probably won't matter to the western audience anyway.

Big fan of the Rafts deskmat btw
« Last Edit: Fri, 23 October 2020, 12:38:07 by kokugatsu »

Offline grundlemere

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #128 on: Sat, 24 October 2020, 09:59:58 »
The quote 「山水甲天下」 on Karst doesn't really make sense linguistically, I get the inspiration behind it but it would just look like a misquote to a native speaker? Not a complete deal breaker and probably won't matter to the western audience anyway.

Big fan of the Rafts deskmat btw

It might not be apparent to everyone but that’s actually a common slogan for the people of Guilin and the Li River. Google image search it and see what comes up.


Offline CobraLi

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #129 on: Mon, 26 October 2020, 09:04:46 »
I can't wait for this groupbuy cause I need some Chinese keycaps for another keyboard and these look great! Saving up for them!

Offline grundlemere

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #130 on: Mon, 26 October 2020, 10:23:32 »
I can't wait for this groupbuy cause I need some Chinese keycaps for another keyboard and these look great! Saving up for them!

Thank you! Just waiting to hear from GMK on pricing and legends. Really excited to bring this to users in China, HK, TW, and everywhere around the world!

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #131 on: Mon, 26 October 2020, 10:37:15 »


Negative Space 留白: the spacebars kit

Show Image

Includes non-traditional spacebars and spacekeys, as well as variant WS1 bars for a distinctive touch.

I'm not sure that the inclusion of white 3u and 2u spacekeys is a necessity. Users would probably get more mileage out of a second black 3u space (for split 3u+3u or 3u+1u+3u setups), and the white 2u space can probably be removed outright seeing as ortho support in base is incomplete, and there is already a black 2u space in the kit.

On a separate note, you can probably remove the second R4 1u Ctrl key and R1 1u Backspace from the base kit.
Two 1u Ctrl keys are not used on any modern ≥60% boards, only ortho 40%. I believe users (especially in China) would get a lot more mileage out of a R4 1u Shift key, which (together with 2u Shift) is used by the GK64 and similar 60% layouts with arrows, which are very popular in the East.
As for 1u Backspace, not very many boards at all use this size. A notable one is Minila, but this set lacks a couple of keys to be able to support that layout (R4 1.75u Control, R4 1u Shift, among others).

Have you had a chance to take a look at this post?

Offline Ulliam

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #132 on: Mon, 26 October 2020, 16:25:52 »
Looking forward to this set and have been for a minute, I wish the novelties we're a little more inspired tho, and I'd love to know what extent "based on the works of" means in the deskmats.

Offline grundlemere

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #133 on: Tue, 27 October 2020, 12:56:27 »


Negative Space 留白: the spacebars kit

Show Image

Includes non-traditional spacebars and spacekeys, as well as variant WS1 bars for a distinctive touch.

I'm not sure that the inclusion of white 3u and 2u spacekeys is a necessity. Users would probably get more mileage out of a second black 3u space (for split 3u+3u or 3u+1u+3u setups), and the white 2u space can probably be removed outright seeing as ortho support in base is incomplete, and there is already a black 2u space in the kit.

On a separate note, you can probably remove the second R4 1u Ctrl key and R1 1u Backspace from the base kit.
Two 1u Ctrl keys are not used on any modern ≥60% boards, only ortho 40%. I believe users (especially in China) would get a lot more mileage out of a R4 1u Shift key, which (together with 2u Shift) is used by the GK64 and similar 60% layouts with arrows, which are very popular in the East.
As for 1u Backspace, not very many boards at all use this size. A notable one is Minila, but this set lacks a couple of keys to be able to support that layout (R4 1.75u Control, R4 1u Shift, among others).

Have you had a chance to take a look at this post?

We've made all the kitting changes we plan to make at this point, unless there's a dramatic need to cost-cut depending on the quote from GMK. We included two 3U spacebars and two 2u spacebars, one in black and one in white, to give users some options for an accent space (in the case of the 2u) and for a design flourish to include one of each in white and black for users of 3U+3U setups.

I have personally owned or built two different compact full-size boards that use or can use two 1U spacerow mods including CTRL. R1 1U backspace is used by some who prefer a split BS layout, or for ortho 40s.

The R4 1U shift key is a good point, but we are past adding new keys to the kits, this post of yours being the only such request during the IC period. In any case, while it's not a perfect solution, the novelties add support for rare layouts.

Offline grundlemere

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Re: [IC] GMK Shanshui 山水 - Final Kit Changes
« Reply #134 on: Tue, 27 October 2020, 13:11:39 »
Looking forward to this set and have been for a minute, I wish the novelties we're a little more inspired tho, and I'd love to know what extent "based on the works of" means in the deskmats.

I sent you a DM on Discord. Happy to discuss anything that didn't get covered in this IC thread about the deskmats.