Author Topic: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE  (Read 21324 times)

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Offline Oblotzky

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[GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 08:09:30 »


GMK Muted is back! Original design credit to jchan94.

The group buy is open until February 14th 2021
The set is scheduled to ship towards the end of Q4 2021

US: https://switchmod.net/
EU: https://oblotzky.industries/
CA: https://www.deskhero.ca/
AU: https://dailyclack.com/
CN: http://www.zfrontier.com/
SEA: https://ilumkb.com/

Kits:










Keyboards:









Offline Kokaloo

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Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 09:34:09 »
What's the point of the extension kit if you're gonna put ISO in base? ISO is statistically used by such a small % of actual buyers that it needs a liferaft into the base kit? For what reason?
5 caps lock in base, alice b but without the bars, feedback is clearly worthless and won't swing designers to give the people that are paying them what they want; it's as if you're looking at the IC page with a filter that hides any posts with "pipe".
This might be the worst kitting to ever get to gb, considering that drop can offer this. Comparatively, Muted should be slated to sell more sets than drop. It's offensive to offer consumers lackluster kitting and pricing for such a big hyped up gb like this one.

glwgb
« Last Edit: Fri, 15 January 2021, 13:32:02 by Kokaloo »

Offline Yeoh

  • Posts: 162
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 13:24:38 »
ne mod colored pipe avail?

Also, not enough options for capslock imo.

Offline IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES

  • Posts: 1241
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 13:50:09 »
ne mod colored pipe avail?

I think the pages of discussion on that topic in the IC reinforces that it’s not happening

Offline Oblotzky

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Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 14:18:20 »
What's the point of the extension kit if you're gonna put ISO in base? ISO is statistically used by such a small % of actual buyers that it needs a liferaft into the base kit? For what reason?
5 caps lock in base, alice b but without the bars, feedback is clearly worthless and won't swing designers to give the people that are paying them what they want; it's as if you're looking at the IC page with a filter that hides any posts with "pipe".
This might be the worst kitting to ever get to gb, considering that drop can offer this. Comparatively, Muted should be slated to sell more sets than drop. It's offensive to offer consumers lackluster kitting and pricing for such a big hyped up gb like this one.

glwgb

I 100% agree that a set should only have one set of Caps Lock, but neither Krelbit nor I wanted to give in.

Second B in base makes a lot of sense, because you can now pick either the Extension kit or a Accent kit to have Alice support. Putting it in the Extension kit would have only strengthened your point in 'making the set expensive' as now people that wanted Alice with accent spacekeys would have had to purchase the Extension kit just for the B. So it is actually quite the contrary to what you claim it does.

Apart from the Caps Lock situation, I believe this is very solid kitting.

Offline Kokaloo

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Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 14:26:20 »
What's the point of the extension kit if you're gonna put ISO in base? ISO is statistically used by such a small % of actual buyers that it needs a liferaft into the base kit? For what reason?
5 caps lock in base, alice b but without the bars, feedback is clearly worthless and won't swing designers to give the people that are paying them what they want; it's as if you're looking at the IC page with a filter that hides any posts with "pipe".
This might be the worst kitting to ever get to gb, considering that drop can offer this. Comparatively, Muted should be slated to sell more sets than drop. It's offensive to offer consumers lackluster kitting and pricing for such a big hyped up gb like this one.

glwgb

I 100% agree that a set should only have one set of Caps Lock, but neither Krelbit nor I wanted to give in.

Second B in base makes a lot of sense, because you can now pick either the Extension kit or a Accent kit to have Alice support. Putting it in the Extension kit would have only strengthened your point in 'making the set expensive' as now people that wanted Alice with accent spacekeys would have had to purchase the Extension kit just for the B. So it is actually quite the contrary to what you claim it does.

Apart from the Caps Lock situation, I believe this is very solid kitting.

So because you and Krel couldn't come to a professional decision on how to kit your set consumers end up with more keys then they could ever hope to use, even citing that you feel you're putting out a lackluster product? Embarrassing.
Look at this base compared to the one I linked on drop and try again with a straight face. You either have little hope in this extraordinarily hyped up set to not perform and weren't willing to price it accordingly, or you want people to have a reason to buy the extension/accent kits from forced necessity. If you're including a key in base, people should be expected to get compatibility rather than getting half of a whole. You're disguising forcing people to buying more kits as "options" and I find it totally egregious.
« Last Edit: Fri, 15 January 2021, 14:38:52 by Kokaloo »

Offline fishbiscuit13

  • Posts: 59
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 14:39:29 »
blah

I 100% agree that a set should only have one set of Caps Lock, but neither Krelbit nor I wanted to give in.
...
Apart from the Caps Lock situation, I believe this is very solid kitting.

So because you and Krel couldn't come to a professional decision on how to kit your set consumers end up with more keys then they could ever hope to use, even citing that you feel you're putting out a lackluster product? Embarrassing.


Take a breath and actually read Oblotzky's response. He's saying he would prefer to have one key but the decision was made to include more. That is not an admission of guilt of unprofessionalism like you're claiming, it's more keys. This is getting really hysterical at this point.

Offline Kokaloo

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Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 14:45:28 »
blah

I 100% agree that a set should only have one set of Caps Lock, but neither Krelbit nor I wanted to give in.
...
Apart from the Caps Lock situation, I believe this is very solid kitting.

So because you and Krel couldn't come to a professional decision on how to kit your set consumers end up with more keys then they could ever hope to use, even citing that you feel you're putting out a lackluster product? Embarrassing.


Take a breath and actually read Oblotzky's response. He's saying he would prefer to have one key but the decision was made to include more. That is not an admission of guilt of unprofessionalism like you're claiming, it's more keys. This is getting really hysterical at this point.

It's really not, just sheds even more light that these designers kit based on raw emotional response rather than logistics or consideration for the people supporting their businesses. It's factually bloated considering the lack of utility in the keys included. There was a compromise that neither were willing to make.
« Last Edit: Fri, 15 January 2021, 14:48:34 by Kokaloo »

Offline dorf

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Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 14:58:35 »
I would like to thank Oblotzky for this chance to buy muted again. I would also like to thank you for once again giving us iso / nordic users the satisfaction of getting a complete kit. The order is sent and paid for.

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 15:14:25 »
blah

I 100% agree that a set should only have one set of Caps Lock, but neither Krelbit nor I wanted to give in.
...
Apart from the Caps Lock situation, I believe this is very solid kitting.

So because you and Krel couldn't come to a professional decision on how to kit your set consumers end up with more keys then they could ever hope to use, even citing that you feel you're putting out a lackluster product? Embarrassing.


Take a breath and actually read Oblotzky's response. He's saying he would prefer to have one key but the decision was made to include more. That is not an admission of guilt of unprofessionalism like you're claiming, it's more keys. This is getting really hysterical at this point.

It's really not, just sheds even more light that these designers kit based on raw emotional response rather than logistics or consideration for the people supporting their businesses. It's factually bloated considering the lack of utility in the keys included. There was a compromise that neither were willing to make.

In which case, please tell us what an ideal kitting would be for you
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline krisst

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Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 15:19:45 »
Thank you so much for making R5 bottom row.

I will not be buying this set, wallet is happier. Seems like the IC is fake anyways. It's more a marketing piece.

Offline Kokaloo

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Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 15:19:56 »
In which case, please tell us what an ideal kitting would be for you

What's with this common response deflecting that I come off as knowing what's best? There are pages of people already asking for keys and kitting they would support, their voices are a bit more important. If they aren't being heard, I sure as hell won't be, and I have a good feeling you knew that when writing your post.

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 15:23:40 »
Also I don't mean to put gasoline in your keyset fire, but:

In which case, please tell us what an ideal kitting would be for you

What's with this common response deflecting that I come off as knowing what's best? (...)

Well you did make a couple judgement calls here:


(...)  these designers kit based on raw emotional response rather than logistics or consideration for the people supporting their businesses. It's factually bloated considering the lack of utility in the keys included. (...)

So because you and Krel couldn't come to a professional decision on how to kit your set consumers end up with more keys then they could ever hope to use, even citing that you feel you're putting out a lackluster product? Embarrassing.
Look at this base compared to the one I linked on drop and try again with a straight face. You either have little hope in this extraordinarily hyped up set to not perform and weren't willing to price it accordingly, or you want people to have a reason to buy the extension/accent kits from forced necessity. If you're including a key in base, people should be expected to get compatibility rather than getting half of a whole. You're disguising forcing people to buying more kits as "options" and I find it totally egregious.

You did use words like "egregious" , "worse", "lackluster". Judgement means you claim to have knowledge to judge, meaning you have the responsibility of knowing what you are talking about, meaning if you don't you are not only being unfairly critic -- and quite toxic, I must add -- at which point your whole comments are not worth of anyone's time or consideration.

I get where you come from. You want designers to kit and design for the community, and I can totally resonate with that. But just don't criticize, be proactive.
« Last Edit: Fri, 15 January 2021, 15:33:40 by Gondolindrim »
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline Kokaloo

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Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 15:28:16 »
In which case, please tell us what an ideal kitting would be for you

What's with this common response deflecting that I come off as knowing what's best? There are pages of people already asking for keys and kitting they would support, their voices are a bit more important. If they aren't being heard, I sure as hell won't be, and I have a good feeling you knew that when writing your post.

I don't have second intentions here mate -- I just truly want to know what your ideal kit is. For what it's worth, literally zero keysets support Brazilian ABNT or ABNT2 layouts, so I'm neutral in kitting discussions

Something like what I linked previously with drop is, in my personal opinion, a fantastic base kit that has little bloat and provides most everybody with a solid price to key utilization ratio as far as physical compatibility is concerned.

Also I don't mean to put gasoline in your keyset fire, but:
Your original post will stay but I'll edit this to stay up to date with your new one, hope that's alright.

I am being proactive by fairly labeling the decisions made for this run in the hopes that us consumers understand that we can be treated better. Voting with my wallet isn't enough for this, these designers have shown in the past they will strongarm sets to include or not include what they feel is appropriate based on emotional response, even with olive branches to try and appeal those situations. This can lead to a devastating cycle of designers picking and choosing what they feel is best, rather than supporting consumers who know what THEY want. With this comes completely ignored userbases that would have supported them otherwise, and this has historically happened before!

I'm not here to be lectured about what is considered toxic when it comes to my criticism. If the designers won't bother to listen to initial feedback from their very customers, it's no shock that they choose to ignore me too. But hopefully other people who feel ignored by these designers can see that things could be better.
« Last Edit: Fri, 15 January 2021, 16:15:04 by Kokaloo »

Offline hineybush

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Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 15:55:51 »
bro if you don't like this just make your own keyset lmao

in for all kits, thanks for running this yall

Offline Minam

  • Posts: 54
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 17:24:07 »
$15 for shipping for $40 accent kits, are you kidding lmao.  How the hell does Canadian vendor have cheaper shipping to US than the US vendor??
« Last Edit: Fri, 15 January 2021, 17:26:23 by Minam »



Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 18:50:24 »
In which case, please tell us what an ideal kitting would be for you

What's with this common response deflecting that I come off as knowing what's best? There are pages of people already asking for keys and kitting they would support, their voices are a bit more important. If they aren't being heard, I sure as hell won't be, and I have a good feeling you knew that when writing your post.

I don't have second intentions here mate -- I just truly want to know what your ideal kit is. For what it's worth, literally zero keysets support Brazilian ABNT or ABNT2 layouts, so I'm neutral in kitting discussions

Something like what I linked previously with drop is, in my personal opinion, a fantastic base kit that has little bloat and provides most everybody with a solid price to key utilization ratio as far as physical compatibility is concerned.

Also I don't mean to put gasoline in your keyset fire, but:
Your original post will stay but I'll edit this to stay up to date with your new one, hope that's alright.

I am being proactive by fairly labeling the decisions made for this run in the hopes that us consumers understand that we can be treated better. Voting with my wallet isn't enough for this, these designers have shown in the past they will strongarm sets to include or not include what they feel is appropriate based on emotional response, even with olive branches to try and appeal those situations. This can lead to a devastating cycle of designers picking and choosing what they feel is best, rather than supporting consumers who know what THEY want. With this comes completely ignored userbases that would have supported them otherwise, and this has historically happened before!

I'm not here to be lectured about what is considered toxic when it comes to my criticism. If the designers won't bother to listen to initial feedback from their very customers, it's no shock that they choose to ignore me too. But hopefully other people who feel ignored by these designers can see that things could be better.

What I mean by proactiveness is, why don't you design your own stuff with what you think is right?

By complaining only you will get nowhere. This hobby is shaped by the designers and vendors, who are responsible to develop and make viable new trends and products. This that you are doing not only makes designers not listen to feedback anymore but lessens you as a community member because you are doing absolutely ****all right now. You are just complaining; I'm sorry but fairly labeling the decisions made is a bunch of nothing. Your comments will just fall into the emptiness of the internet space. By only complaining you are just letting other people shape the hobby, and now your comment is that you don't like where it's headed. If your designs gather traction, you might shed light into a need that the user base has and we did not see. Prove the designers wrong.

A year and a half ago I was questioning why there aren't open source iniciatives in this hobby , specially because newbies like me at the time could learn and become more proficient in certain design aspects, contributing to the community. What I did was make PCBs and open source them. I did not send designers poopoo comments about they not open sourcing because they are afraid of copy or IP infringement. And today all PCB designers use methods and circuits that I developed, making PCBs safer and more reliable for everyone.

Take this comment as you will. I don't care nor will I whatever you think of me after this. This isn't a lecture, but I truly believe you are a seasoned user that is very active and you are wasting your potential doing this.
« Last Edit: Fri, 15 January 2021, 18:59:43 by Gondolindrim »
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline Vadurr

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Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 20:47:10 »
Def in for this! Thanks yall. Any R1 owners willing to sell me a mod colored tilde tho? :)

Offline J3ff_Leopard

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Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 21:03:22 »

Your original post will stay but I'll edit this to stay up to date with your new one, hope that's alright.

I am being proactive by fairly labeling the decisions made for this run in the hopes that us consumers understand that we can be treated better. Voting with my wallet isn't enough for this, these designers have shown in the past they will strongarm sets to include or not include what they feel is appropriate based on emotional response, even with olive branches to try and appeal those situations. This can lead to a devastating cycle of designers picking and choosing what they feel is best, rather than supporting consumers who know what THEY want. With this comes completely ignored userbases that would have supported them otherwise, and this has historically happened before!

I'm not here to be lectured about what is considered toxic when it comes to my criticism. If the designers won't bother to listen to initial feedback from their very customers, it's no shock that they choose to ignore me too. But hopefully other people who feel ignored by these designers can see that things could be better.

I was talking about this with someone else in Man of Interest's discord. A lot of people are used to the way this hobby was just a couple years ago. It was so small for so long that we all felt entitled to make demands as consumers because we could. Vendors needed us to make sure the GB's reached MOQ. As the hobby has grown, this has become less and less true. It's a natural progression and unfortunate growing pain. As vendors grow they gain more freedom to create the things that they want. In this process, we as consumers lose some freedom. It's happening in subtle ways that you might not have noticed already. For instance: NK65. Wonderful budget board, zero input from the community. We (the consumer) didn't get a choice in colors, case materials, plate materials, mounting style, etc. And why should we have any right to? What other consumer-retailer dynamic allows for serious input that results in change?

And honestly this kitting isn't even that bad. Of course if any given base kit is missing keys that you as an individual want, it will never hold value. Dixie runs sets that only cost $30 less than Muted R2 and provide you with MUCH LESS compatibility and MUCH LESS value but those seem to sell fine. Dixie has the sales numbers to prove it. That should have been a clear indicator that we as consumer's don't really have any bargaining chips when it comes to kitting. That's not a critique of Dixie or capitalism. It's just the way she goes.  Apologies for the long post, just wanted to put in my 2 cents. In for base kit and accents. GLWGB
Usually wrong

Offline Puddsy

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Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 21:22:48 »
In which case, please tell us what an ideal kitting would be for you

What's with this common response deflecting that I come off as knowing what's best? There are pages of people already asking for keys and kitting they would support, their voices are a bit more important. If they aren't being heard, I sure as hell won't be, and I have a good feeling you knew that when writing your post.

I don't have second intentions here mate -- I just truly want to know what your ideal kit is. For what it's worth, literally zero keysets support Brazilian ABNT or ABNT2 layouts, so I'm neutral in kitting discussions

Something like what I linked previously with drop is, in my personal opinion, a fantastic base kit that has little bloat and provides most everybody with a solid price to key utilization ratio as far as physical compatibility is concerned.

Also I don't mean to put gasoline in your keyset fire, but:
Your original post will stay but I'll edit this to stay up to date with your new one, hope that's alright.

I am being proactive by fairly labeling the decisions made for this run in the hopes that us consumers understand that we can be treated better. Voting with my wallet isn't enough for this, these designers have shown in the past they will strongarm sets to include or not include what they feel is appropriate based on emotional response, even with olive branches to try and appeal those situations. This can lead to a devastating cycle of designers picking and choosing what they feel is best, rather than supporting consumers who know what THEY want. With this comes completely ignored userbases that would have supported them otherwise, and this has historically happened before!

I'm not here to be lectured about what is considered toxic when it comes to my criticism. If the designers won't bother to listen to initial feedback from their very customers, it's no shock that they choose to ignore me too. But hopefully other people who feel ignored by these designers can see that things could be better.

What I mean by proactiveness is, why don't you design your own stuff with what you think is right?

By complaining only you will get nowhere. This hobby is shaped by the designers and vendors, who are responsible to develop and make viable new trends and products. This that you are doing not only makes designers not listen to feedback anymore but lessens you as a community member because you are doing absolutely ****all right now. You are just complaining; I'm sorry but fairly labeling the decisions made is a bunch of nothing. Your comments will just fall into the emptiness of the internet space. By only complaining you are just letting other people shape the hobby, and now your comment is that you don't like where it's headed. If your designs gather traction, you might shed light into a need that the user base has and we did not see. Prove the designers wrong.

A year and a half ago I was questioning why there aren't open source iniciatives in this hobby , specially because newbies like me at the time could learn and become more proficient in certain design aspects, contributing to the community. What I did was make PCBs and open source them. I did not send designers poopoo comments about they not open sourcing because they are afraid of copy or IP infringement. And today all PCB designers use methods and circuits that I developed, making PCBs safer and more reliable for everyone.

Take this comment as you will. I don't care nor will I whatever you think of me after this. This isn't a lecture, but I truly believe you are a seasoned user that is very active and you are wasting your potential doing this.

he answered that one already: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=109923.msg3002879#msg3002879

if you think you can do better, do better

once again gondo with the elite replies tho
QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | TGR Alice | Qlavier Ti/Acryl Alice (lost in mail T_T) | Revo One | z | Keycult No. 1

if you're actually reading other people's posts on geekhack in 2020 you're doing something wrong

"Everything is worse, but in a barely perceptible and indefinable way" -dollartacos | "Is Linkshine our Nixon?" -NAV (fk u) | "Puddsy is the puddsy of keebs" -ns90

Offline The Equals D

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Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 21:25:31 »
Why is there no qwertz in this base kit.

Offline Puddsy

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Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 21:26:27 »
bro if you don't like this just make your own keyset lmao

in for all kits, thanks for running this yall

this

been waiting for a muted rerun for a while
QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | TGR Alice | Qlavier Ti/Acryl Alice (lost in mail T_T) | Revo One | z | Keycult No. 1

if you're actually reading other people's posts on geekhack in 2020 you're doing something wrong

"Everything is worse, but in a barely perceptible and indefinable way" -dollartacos | "Is Linkshine our Nixon?" -NAV (fk u) | "Puddsy is the puddsy of keebs" -ns90

Offline Gondolindrim

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Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 21:38:49 »
.
« Last Edit: Fri, 15 January 2021, 21:52:31 by Gondolindrim »
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline rageurdream

  • Posts: 2
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 21:51:50 »
What's the point of the extension kit if you're gonna put ISO in base? ISO is statistically used by such a small % of actual buyers that it needs a liferaft into the base kit? For what reason?
5 caps lock in base, alice b but without the bars, feedback is clearly worthless and won't swing designers to give the people that are paying them what they want; it's as if you're looking at the IC page with a filter that hides any posts with "pipe".
This might be the worst kitting to ever get to gb, considering that drop can offer this. Comparatively, Muted should be slated to sell more sets than drop. It's offensive to offer consumers lackluster kitting and pricing for such a big hyped up gb like this one.

glwgb

259911-0
« Last Edit: Fri, 15 January 2021, 22:03:26 by rageurdream »

Offline Pylon

  • Posts: 757
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 21:58:35 »
What's GMK's policy on allowing other people to use custom colors? Could someone who's pissed about the very explicit exclusion of mod pipe/tilde run a GB for those two keys?

Offline Kokaloo

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Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 22:37:00 »
I truly believe you are a seasoned user that is very active and you are wasting your potential doing this.

It's incredible how people can take other's criticism over a product and turn it personal. It's not really in my nature do use my free time to do something I feel is unimportant, useless, or not fun. Vendors can do better. Don't you concern yourself with my potential.
« Last Edit: Fri, 15 January 2021, 22:45:02 by Kokaloo »

Offline hyppialonso

  • Posts: 87
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 15 January 2021, 23:40:42 »
bro if you don't like this just make your own keyset lmao

in for all kits, thanks for running this yall
Strongly recommend this to be quoted on the first line of every single IC post.

Offline question Mark

  • Posts: 15
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #27 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 00:00:37 »

Your original post will stay but I'll edit this to stay up to date with your new one, hope that's alright.

I am being proactive by fairly labeling the decisions made for this run in the hopes that us consumers understand that we can be treated better. Voting with my wallet isn't enough for this, these designers have shown in the past they will strongarm sets to include or not include what they feel is appropriate based on emotional response, even with olive branches to try and appeal those situations. This can lead to a devastating cycle of designers picking and choosing what they feel is best, rather than supporting consumers who know what THEY want. With this comes completely ignored userbases that would have supported them otherwise, and this has historically happened before!

I'm not here to be lectured about what is considered toxic when it comes to my criticism. If the designers won't bother to listen to initial feedback from their very customers, it's no shock that they choose to ignore me too. But hopefully other people who feel ignored by these designers can see that things could be better.

I was talking about this with someone else in Man of Interest's discord. A lot of people are used to the way this hobby was just a couple years ago. It was so small for so long that we all felt entitled to make demands as consumers because we could. Vendors needed us to make sure the GB's reached MOQ. As the hobby has grown, this has become less and less true. It's a natural progression and unfortunate growing pain. As vendors grow they gain more freedom to create the things that they want. In this process, we as consumers lose some freedom. It's happening in subtle ways that you might not have noticed already. For instance: NK65. Wonderful budget board, zero input from the community. We (the consumer) didn't get a choice in colors, case materials, plate materials, mounting style, etc. And why should we have any right to? What other consumer-retailer dynamic allows for serious input that results in change?

And honestly this kitting isn't even that bad. Of course if any given base kit is missing keys that you as an individual want, it will never hold value. Dixie runs sets that only cost $30 less than Muted R2 and provide you with MUCH LESS compatibility and MUCH LESS value but those seem to sell fine. Dixie has the sales numbers to prove it. That should have been a clear indicator that we as consumer's don't really have any bargaining chips when it comes to kitting. That's not a critique of Dixie or capitalism. It's just the way she goes.  Apologies for the long post, just wanted to put in my 2 cents. In for base kit and accents. GLWGB

Tbh, I don't think that is a good example. There is a big difference in selling a product based on your own decisions and an IC open for feedback. If there is a lot of feedback about a specific thing, there seems to be sufficient interest for you to either think about it or give a reasonable answer, not just ignore it away. I don't think that two extra keys in the base kit would have hurt anyone.
Next time just ask konstantin to do the kitting for you, because the man clearly knows what's up and sell the set based on your own design philosophy. That way there shouldn't be any discussions.

I think the kits are well put together, except for the forced R5 bottom row, stupid amount of caps lock and missing mod tilde and mod pipe.

Anyway, this GB will be a success, because of all the hype. I just hope this kitting style doesn't turn into a trend.

Best of luck to the GB runners!

Offline question Mark

  • Posts: 15
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #28 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 00:07:41 »
bro if you don't like this just make your own keyset lmao

in for all kits, thanks for running this yall
Strongly recommend this to be quoted on the first line of every single IC post.

I strongly recommend designers to have the courage to just sell their products and not post useless IC's. That way we have more time to BUY and waste less time on discussions.

Offline J3ff_Leopard

  • Posts: 160
  • Location: Dekalb, IL
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 00:15:48 »

Your original post will stay but I'll edit this to stay up to date with your new one, hope that's alright.

I am being proactive by fairly labeling the decisions made for this run in the hopes that us consumers understand that we can be treated better. Voting with my wallet isn't enough for this, these designers have shown in the past they will strongarm sets to include or not include what they feel is appropriate based on emotional response, even with olive branches to try and appeal those situations. This can lead to a devastating cycle of designers picking and choosing what they feel is best, rather than supporting consumers who know what THEY want. With this comes completely ignored userbases that would have supported them otherwise, and this has historically happened before!

I'm not here to be lectured about what is considered toxic when it comes to my criticism. If the designers won't bother to listen to initial feedback from their very customers, it's no shock that they choose to ignore me too. But hopefully other people who feel ignored by these designers can see that things could be better.

I was talking about this with someone else in Man of Interest's discord. A lot of people are used to the way this hobby was just a couple years ago. It was so small for so long that we all felt entitled to make demands as consumers because we could. Vendors needed us to make sure the GB's reached MOQ. As the hobby has grown, this has become less and less true. It's a natural progression and unfortunate growing pain. As vendors grow they gain more freedom to create the things that they want. In this process, we as consumers lose some freedom. It's happening in subtle ways that you might not have noticed already. For instance: NK65. Wonderful budget board, zero input from the community. We (the consumer) didn't get a choice in colors, case materials, plate materials, mounting style, etc. And why should we have any right to? What other consumer-retailer dynamic allows for serious input that results in change?

And honestly this kitting isn't even that bad. Of course if any given base kit is missing keys that you as an individual want, it will never hold value. Dixie runs sets that only cost $30 less than Muted R2 and provide you with MUCH LESS compatibility and MUCH LESS value but those seem to sell fine. Dixie has the sales numbers to prove it. That should have been a clear indicator that we as consumer's don't really have any bargaining chips when it comes to kitting. That's not a critique of Dixie or capitalism. It's just the way she goes.  Apologies for the long post, just wanted to put in my 2 cents. In for base kit and accents. GLWGB

Tbh, I don't think that is a good example. There is a big difference in selling a product based on your own decisions and an IC open for feedback. If there is a lot of feedback about a specific thing, there seems to be sufficient interest for you to either think about it or give a reasonable answer, not just ignore it away. I don't think that two extra keys in the base kit would have hurt anyone.
Next time just ask konstantin to do the kitting for you, because the man clearly knows what's up and sell the set based on your own design philosophy. That way there shouldn't be any discussions.

I think the kits are well put together, except for the forced R5 bottom row, stupid amount of caps lock and missing mod tilde and mod pipe.

Anyway, this GB will be a success, because of all the hype. I just hope this kitting style doesn't turn into a trend.

Best of luck to the GB runners!

This just sounds like dissonance due to outdated terms. They were "Interest Checks" when vendors needed every consumer they could get. Vendors no longer need us, so perhaps we should update the language. I do agree that there is another issue of standardization. I would prefer if GMK themselves set the standard for what a base kit is. That would truly leave discussion off the table. I honestly think Dixie's style of kitting will become the most widely accepted, so you won't have to worry  ;)
Usually wrong

Offline Tyson

  • Posts: 609
  • Location: Texas
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 01:28:35 »
While I don't agree on some of the choices made for this keyset, I still think it's such an iconic set that I needed to get it! In for a base kit, ext, and cyan/purple mods. :)

Offline DERBS

  • Posts: 75
  • Location: Real NorCal
  • N E 3u bars avail?
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #31 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 02:15:45 »
N E Mald Pipers?

Offline nvh2092

  • Posts: 142
  • Location: Public toilet
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #32 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 04:27:45 »

Your original post will stay but I'll edit this to stay up to date with your new one, hope that's alright.

I am being proactive by fairly labeling the decisions made for this run in the hopes that us consumers understand that we can be treated better. Voting with my wallet isn't enough for this, these designers have shown in the past they will strongarm sets to include or not include what they feel is appropriate based on emotional response, even with olive branches to try and appeal those situations. This can lead to a devastating cycle of designers picking and choosing what they feel is best, rather than supporting consumers who know what THEY want. With this comes completely ignored userbases that would have supported them otherwise, and this has historically happened before!

I'm not here to be lectured about what is considered toxic when it comes to my criticism. If the designers won't bother to listen to initial feedback from their very customers, it's no shock that they choose to ignore me too. But hopefully other people who feel ignored by these designers can see that things could be better.

I was talking about this with someone else in Man of Interest's discord. A lot of people are used to the way this hobby was just a couple years ago. It was so small for so long that we all felt entitled to make demands as consumers because we could. Vendors needed us to make sure the GB's reached MOQ. As the hobby has grown, this has become less and less true. It's a natural progression and unfortunate growing pain. As vendors grow they gain more freedom to create the things that they want. In this process, we as consumers lose some freedom. It's happening in subtle ways that you might not have noticed already. For instance: NK65. Wonderful budget board, zero input from the community. We (the consumer) didn't get a choice in colors, case materials, plate materials, mounting style, etc. And why should we have any right to? What other consumer-retailer dynamic allows for serious input that results in change?

And honestly this kitting isn't even that bad. Of course if any given base kit is missing keys that you as an individual want, it will never hold value. Dixie runs sets that only cost $30 less than Muted R2 and provide you with MUCH LESS compatibility and MUCH LESS value but those seem to sell fine. Dixie has the sales numbers to prove it. That should have been a clear indicator that we as consumer's don't really have any bargaining chips when it comes to kitting. That's not a critique of Dixie or capitalism. It's just the way she goes.  Apologies for the long post, just wanted to put in my 2 cents. In for base kit and accents. GLWGB

Tbh, I don't think that is a good example. There is a big difference in selling a product based on your own decisions and an IC open for feedback. If there is a lot of feedback about a specific thing, there seems to be sufficient interest for you to either think about it or give a reasonable answer, not just ignore it away. I don't think that two extra keys in the base kit would have hurt anyone.
Next time just ask konstantin to do the kitting for you, because the man clearly knows what's up and sell the set based on your own design philosophy. That way there shouldn't be any discussions.

I think the kits are well put together, except for the forced R5 bottom row, stupid amount of caps lock and missing mod tilde and mod pipe.

Anyway, this GB will be a success, because of all the hype. I just hope this kitting style doesn't turn into a trend.

Best of luck to the GB runners!

This just sounds like dissonance due to outdated terms. They were "Interest Checks" when vendors needed every consumer they could get. Vendors no longer need us, so perhaps we should update the language. I do agree that there is another issue of standardization. I would prefer if GMK themselves set the standard for what a base kit is. That would truly leave discussion off the table. I honestly think Dixie's style of kitting will become the most widely accepted, so you won't have to worry  ;)
I don't think Dixie kitting will be widely accepted in EU. I personally don't like it, I prefer a basic terminal ISO in base kit like the kitting of GMK ThinkCaps.

Offline question Mark

  • Posts: 15
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #33 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 05:28:40 »

Your original post will stay but I'll edit this to stay up to date with your new one, hope that's alright.

I am being proactive by fairly labeling the decisions made for this run in the hopes that us consumers understand that we can be treated better. Voting with my wallet isn't enough for this, these designers have shown in the past they will strongarm sets to include or not include what they feel is appropriate based on emotional response, even with olive branches to try and appeal those situations. This can lead to a devastating cycle of designers picking and choosing what they feel is best, rather than supporting consumers who know what THEY want. With this comes completely ignored userbases that would have supported them otherwise, and this has historically happened before!

I'm not here to be lectured about what is considered toxic when it comes to my criticism. If the designers won't bother to listen to initial feedback from their very customers, it's no shock that they choose to ignore me too. But hopefully other people who feel ignored by these designers can see that things could be better.

I was talking about this with someone else in Man of Interest's discord. A lot of people are used to the way this hobby was just a couple years ago. It was so small for so long that we all felt entitled to make demands as consumers because we could. Vendors needed us to make sure the GB's reached MOQ. As the hobby has grown, this has become less and less true. It's a natural progression and unfortunate growing pain. As vendors grow they gain more freedom to create the things that they want. In this process, we as consumers lose some freedom. It's happening in subtle ways that you might not have noticed already. For instance: NK65. Wonderful budget board, zero input from the community. We (the consumer) didn't get a choice in colors, case materials, plate materials, mounting style, etc. And why should we have any right to? What other consumer-retailer dynamic allows for serious input that results in change?

And honestly this kitting isn't even that bad. Of course if any given base kit is missing keys that you as an individual want, it will never hold value. Dixie runs sets that only cost $30 less than Muted R2 and provide you with MUCH LESS compatibility and MUCH LESS value but those seem to sell fine. Dixie has the sales numbers to prove it. That should have been a clear indicator that we as consumer's don't really have any bargaining chips when it comes to kitting. That's not a critique of Dixie or capitalism. It's just the way she goes.  Apologies for the long post, just wanted to put in my 2 cents. In for base kit and accents. GLWGB

Tbh, I don't think that is a good example. There is a big difference in selling a product based on your own decisions and an IC open for feedback. If there is a lot of feedback about a specific thing, there seems to be sufficient interest for you to either think about it or give a reasonable answer, not just ignore it away. I don't think that two extra keys in the base kit would have hurt anyone.
Next time just ask konstantin to do the kitting for you, because the man clearly knows what's up and sell the set based on your own design philosophy. That way there shouldn't be any discussions.

I think the kits are well put together, except for the forced R5 bottom row, stupid amount of caps lock and missing mod tilde and mod pipe.

Anyway, this GB will be a success, because of all the hype. I just hope this kitting style doesn't turn into a trend.

Best of luck to the GB runners!

This just sounds like dissonance due to outdated terms. They were "Interest Checks" when vendors needed every consumer they could get. Vendors no longer need us, so perhaps we should update the language. I do agree that there is another issue of standardization. I would prefer if GMK themselves set the standard for what a base kit is. That would truly leave discussion off the table. I honestly think Dixie's style of kitting will become the most widely accepted, so you won't have to worry  ;)

Maybe a new category like "Ads" would be a solution. Then the designer could choose to just advertize their product. A designer who has run several GB's and gained enough experience then doesn't have to bother and new designers or ones who are willing to work with the community can discuss their ideas.

Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #34 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 07:13:32 »

Your original post will stay but I'll edit this to stay up to date with your new one, hope that's alright.

I am being proactive by fairly labeling the decisions made for this run in the hopes that us consumers understand that we can be treated better. Voting with my wallet isn't enough for this, these designers have shown in the past they will strongarm sets to include or not include what they feel is appropriate based on emotional response, even with olive branches to try and appeal those situations. This can lead to a devastating cycle of designers picking and choosing what they feel is best, rather than supporting consumers who know what THEY want. With this comes completely ignored userbases that would have supported them otherwise, and this has historically happened before!

I'm not here to be lectured about what is considered toxic when it comes to my criticism. If the designers won't bother to listen to initial feedback from their very customers, it's no shock that they choose to ignore me too. But hopefully other people who feel ignored by these designers can see that things could be better.

I was talking about this with someone else in Man of Interest's discord. A lot of people are used to the way this hobby was just a couple years ago. It was so small for so long that we all felt entitled to make demands as consumers because we could. Vendors needed us to make sure the GB's reached MOQ. As the hobby has grown, this has become less and less true. It's a natural progression and unfortunate growing pain. As vendors grow they gain more freedom to create the things that they want. In this process, we as consumers lose some freedom. It's happening in subtle ways that you might not have noticed already. For instance: NK65. Wonderful budget board, zero input from the community. We (the consumer) didn't get a choice in colors, case materials, plate materials, mounting style, etc. And why should we have any right to? What other consumer-retailer dynamic allows for serious input that results in change?

And honestly this kitting isn't even that bad. Of course if any given base kit is missing keys that you as an individual want, it will never hold value. Dixie runs sets that only cost $30 less than Muted R2 and provide you with MUCH LESS compatibility and MUCH LESS value but those seem to sell fine. Dixie has the sales numbers to prove it. That should have been a clear indicator that we as consumer's don't really have any bargaining chips when it comes to kitting. That's not a critique of Dixie or capitalism. It's just the way she goes.  Apologies for the long post, just wanted to put in my 2 cents. In for base kit and accents. GLWGB

Tbh, I don't think that is a good example. There is a big difference in selling a product based on your own decisions and an IC open for feedback. If there is a lot of feedback about a specific thing, there seems to be sufficient interest for you to either think about it or give a reasonable answer, not just ignore it away. I don't think that two extra keys in the base kit would have hurt anyone.
Next time just ask konstantin to do the kitting for you, because the man clearly knows what's up and sell the set based on your own design philosophy. That way there shouldn't be any discussions.

I think the kits are well put together, except for the forced R5 bottom row, stupid amount of caps lock and missing mod tilde and mod pipe.

Anyway, this GB will be a success, because of all the hype. I just hope this kitting style doesn't turn into a trend.

Best of luck to the GB runners!

So would you prefer R4 and R5 be included in base? Because in my opinion that is silly.

If you wanted just R4 I could just have easily said the designer is forcing R4 upon us.

This is separate from the mod tilde issue, the designers clearly prefer R5 and it's just as much a design decision as someone chosing the colors on their set when they're creating it.

Edit: there was at least 1, if not 2 major revisions during the IC phase, far bigger changes than I see for most ICs posted in the last 6 months or so. I know because at least 3/4 of my complaints with the first proposed kit were addressed with the final offering. Of course I'm still not completely happy with it like removing F13 from the base that was in the initial proposed revision and moving it to a child kit, but I'll vote with my wallet and simply not buy that child kit.
« Last Edit: Sat, 16 January 2021, 07:24:05 by directheatedtriode »

Offline paulgali

  • Posts: 61
  • Location: Dubai, UAE
  • Taco Baul can't find good tacos
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #35 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 12:10:49 »
Yall complain about this kitting, when all of you simultaneously ignore how much was charged for 80082 base (just an example).

Dixie base is bad value. He has his reasoning, I respect his opinion, and wholeheartedly disagree. I would rather take this, and if you're selling it in the future, you don't know if the buyer is an ISO/ANSI user, you dont know what layout he/she is using.

Rather than looking at the immediate use case, one should consider the longevity of the product. Even Zam's Serika kitting, would you complain to me because it has unnecessary keys in it for 110, compared to 80082 for 100? Bear in mind the other kit prices dixie has, even for just an ISO base kit you're going to be at a significant premium.

Offline forevermadrigal

  • Posts: 642
  • Location: In between myself
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #36 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 12:24:18 »
What I liked about this hobby is that it's community members were very involved and keyboards were treated as what they are, a hobby. Everyone being very involved/receptible to feedback in projects is easily one of the very best/unique aspects of our hobby and honestly one of the more refreshing ones. Imo, it separated us from what it seems to be a more commercial/business/Corporation type of deal. Now as we have gone further along, that line has blurred. We're at the stage where everything is a cash grab because it has shown that it can be! Also, being a hive mind doesn't help (But that can't really be helped can it?). Personally, I don't use mod tilde/pipe so I can careless about those keys, but to leave them out is really strange and doesn't make any sense! Especially including macro keys with very little macro boards, but I get it, y'all love pwner and his projects. But this kitting isn't new (serika r2, space cadet, beta etc..). I can get why everyone is mad about it now because this is a keyset everyone has wanted for a long time now, but this is really designer preference. If they do no prefer mod colored alpha keys, they don't have to support it. With that being said, it can also go the other way around and you can choose not to support them! Either way, I'm all in. Glad this made a comeback
« Last Edit: Sat, 16 January 2021, 12:26:04 by forevermadrigal »

Offline scoopbb

  • Posts: 216
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #37 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 15:16:30 »
What I liked about this hobby is that it's community members were very involved and keyboards were treated as what they are, a hobby. Everyone being very involved/receptible to feedback in projects is easily one of the very best/unique aspects of our hobby and honestly one of the more refreshing ones. Imo, it separated us from what it seems to be a more commercial/business/Corporation type of deal. Now as we have gone further along, that line has blurred. We're at the stage where everything is a cash grab because it has shown that it can be! Also, being a hive mind doesn't help (But that can't really be helped can it?). Personally, I don't use mod tilde/pipe so I can careless about those keys, but to leave them out is really strange and doesn't make any sense! Especially including macro keys with very little macro boards, but I get it, y'all love pwner and his projects. But this kitting isn't new (serika r2, space cadet, beta etc..). I can get why everyone is mad about it now because this is a keyset everyone has wanted for a long time now, but this is really designer preference. If they do no prefer mod colored alpha keys, they don't have to support it. With that being said, it can also go the other way around and you can choose not to support them! Either way, I'm all in. Glad this made a comeback

it hasnt been blurred for a while. the idea of community has long been gone. its big business, especially since a lot of the time the vendor needs to do nothing more than collect our money, reinvest their cut into more base kits and sell them for a bunch more on the backend. theres almost no financial risk unless they are buying out kits and even then whats the last set youve seen that had lingering kits left up for months. the risk in being a vendor for a semi decent set is so small now a days. they used to have to listen to the community because moq wasnt guaranteed. now i wouldnt be surprised if some of these sets sell 1/4 to 1/3 of the total numbers to people flipping them later.

if i used a regular layout id prolly be celebrating the cheaper prices and guaranteed hitting moq on most of the sets. alas, i have to use some oddball **** so it never benefits me lol

Offline audax989

  • Posts: 818
  • Location: Guam
  • NOM NOM NOM
    • Guam Mechanical Keyboards
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #38 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 16:44:45 »
While I don't agree on some of the choices made for this keyset, I still think it's such an iconic set that I needed to get it! In for a base kit, ext, and cyan/purple mods. :)

My sentiments exactly. I wish I didn't have to shell out for the extension kit but the 2.25u is necessary for me.

Offline bball2

  • Posts: 366
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #39 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 20:39:42 »

Offline Nuclear Nachos

  • Posts: 63
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #40 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 22:08:09 »
so whats so bad about this kitting cause i just use a normie layout (tsangan 60) and dont really see whats missing cause i dont use more uncommon layouts and genuinely curious about all the negativity towards the compat

Guten Abend, ich bin Oblotzky und ich mag Wόrstchen und Computertastaturen.

Offline J3ff_Leopard

  • Posts: 160
  • Location: Dekalb, IL
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #41 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 22:11:52 »
Show Image


Meanwhile, Reddit's opinion of 80082 kitting...$205 if you want ISO and Numpad with base.
Usually wrong

Offline Oblotzky

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1940
  • Location: Cologne, Germany
  • Backspace is for people that make mistakes.
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #42 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 22:26:18 »
I love when I have to do literally nothing yet the topic stays up at the top all day. Thanks folks  :thumb:

Offline ttom

  • Formerly tvaro
  • Posts: 375
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #43 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 22:34:16 »
I love when I have to do literally nothing yet the topic stays up at the top all day. Thanks folks  :thumb:

Love to see it

Will be joining in the coming days for base, international and purple/cyan accents - very happy with the kitting

GLWGB

Offline tachibana rika

  • Posts: 1
  • Location: Australia
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #44 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 23:19:03 »
I truly believe you are a seasoned user that is very active and you are wasting your potential doing this.

It's incredible how people can take other's criticism over a product and turn it personal. It's not really in my nature do use my free time to do something I feel is unimportant, useless, or not fun. Vendors can do better. Don't you concern yourself with my potential.

This.
« Last Edit: Sat, 16 January 2021, 23:29:44 by tachibana rika »

Offline carlouws

  • Posts: 29
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #45 on: Sat, 16 January 2021, 23:34:42 »
so whats so bad about this kitting cause i just use a normie layout (tsangan 60) and dont really see whats missing cause i dont use more uncommon layouts and genuinely curious about all the negativity towards the compat

Honestly? Nothing. People are just salty because the kit includes four (4) caps lock options and no mod colored pipe or tilde key. The people unhappy with that are currently being the loudest.

Love to be able to buy this set in 2021. I'm in for Base, Extension and Cyan & Purple Accents.

GLWGB

Offline gnho

  • Posts: 144
  • Location: ATX/US
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #46 on: Sun, 17 January 2021, 01:20:21 »
There's really no need to fight about the kitting. It's just keycaps. Nothing really significant. There are corners of this community with less ego and you can vote with your money.

Just remember that people are trying to make money this way because they can't make more money in other ways. People are insisting about kitting because they don't have better things to care about.

Offline lee jeong woo

  • Posts: 87
  • Location: korea
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #47 on: Sun, 17 January 2021, 03:51:27 »
It doesn't look good for the makers to protect each other

We can make a lot of comments and it should be respected
 

Offline question Mark

  • Posts: 15
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #48 on: Sun, 17 January 2021, 04:47:59 »

Your original post will stay but I'll edit this to stay up to date with your new one, hope that's alright.

I am being proactive by fairly labeling the decisions made for this run in the hopes that us consumers understand that we can be treated better. Voting with my wallet isn't enough for this, these designers have shown in the past they will strongarm sets to include or not include what they feel is appropriate based on emotional response, even with olive branches to try and appeal those situations. This can lead to a devastating cycle of designers picking and choosing what they feel is best, rather than supporting consumers who know what THEY want. With this comes completely ignored userbases that would have supported them otherwise, and this has historically happened before!

I'm not here to be lectured about what is considered toxic when it comes to my criticism. If the designers won't bother to listen to initial feedback from their very customers, it's no shock that they choose to ignore me too. But hopefully other people who feel ignored by these designers can see that things could be better.

I was talking about this with someone else in Man of Interest's discord. A lot of people are used to the way this hobby was just a couple years ago. It was so small for so long that we all felt entitled to make demands as consumers because we could. Vendors needed us to make sure the GB's reached MOQ. As the hobby has grown, this has become less and less true. It's a natural progression and unfortunate growing pain. As vendors grow they gain more freedom to create the things that they want. In this process, we as consumers lose some freedom. It's happening in subtle ways that you might not have noticed already. For instance: NK65. Wonderful budget board, zero input from the community. We (the consumer) didn't get a choice in colors, case materials, plate materials, mounting style, etc. And why should we have any right to? What other consumer-retailer dynamic allows for serious input that results in change?

And honestly this kitting isn't even that bad. Of course if any given base kit is missing keys that you as an individual want, it will never hold value. Dixie runs sets that only cost $30 less than Muted R2 and provide you with MUCH LESS compatibility and MUCH LESS value but those seem to sell fine. Dixie has the sales numbers to prove it. That should have been a clear indicator that we as consumer's don't really have any bargaining chips when it comes to kitting. That's not a critique of Dixie or capitalism. It's just the way she goes.  Apologies for the long post, just wanted to put in my 2 cents. In for base kit and accents. GLWGB

Tbh, I don't think that is a good example. There is a big difference in selling a product based on your own decisions and an IC open for feedback. If there is a lot of feedback about a specific thing, there seems to be sufficient interest for you to either think about it or give a reasonable answer, not just ignore it away. I don't think that two extra keys in the base kit would have hurt anyone.
Next time just ask konstantin to do the kitting for you, because the man clearly knows what's up and sell the set based on your own design philosophy. That way there shouldn't be any discussions.

I think the kits are well put together, except for the forced R5 bottom row, stupid amount of caps lock and missing mod tilde and mod pipe.

Anyway, this GB will be a success, because of all the hype. I just hope this kitting style doesn't turn into a trend.

Best of luck to the GB runners!

So would you prefer R4 and R5 be included in base? Because in my opinion that is silly.

If you wanted just R4 I could just have easily said the designer is forcing R4 upon us.

This is separate from the mod tilde issue, the designers clearly prefer R5 and it's just as much a design decision as someone chosing the colors on their set when they're creating it.

Edit: there was at least 1, if not 2 major revisions during the IC phase, far bigger changes than I see for most ICs posted in the last 6 months or so. I know because at least 3/4 of my complaints with the first proposed kit were addressed with the final offering. Of course I'm still not completely happy with it like removing F13 from the base that was in the initial proposed revision and moving it to a child kit, but I'll vote with my wallet and simply not buy that child kit.

Well, there's just a little difference...While you can purchase your F13 with one of the child kits, the keys I'm talking about are not offered at all. That's a big F U to the community, as a lot of people have requested those keys and they have been standard for the last couple of years. Hell, even Space Cadet II offered R4 and R5 bottom rows.

Kitting will always be a big issue. We all use different keyboards, with various different layouts, so we all often have to pay more for the keys we need. That's fine and you can't really criticize the designers, because it's impossible to satisfy everyone's needs. There's simply no perfect kitting for all the variations we have in this community now. Personally I prefer big base kits, because I think all things considered it's the cheapest solution for everybody, even though often times you have many extra keys just sitting in the boxes. With 99$ base kits you end up paying a lot more for the keys you need compared to sets with one big base kit, but at least you have the option to get what you want.

This is not being salty, it's just sad to see.

Offline aa212121

  • Posts: 13
Re: [GB] GMK Muted 2 - LIVE
« Reply #49 on: Sun, 17 January 2021, 06:24:35 »
While I understand people saying that this kitting is fine and should cover most layouts if one decides to switch layouts in the future; I don't understand how you offer ISO, Alice spacebars, Bs for the sake of covering all layouts; and then not offer mod coloured pipe/tilde (which people seem to use with 60s).
I can't get used to 60s so very low chance that I'll ever need mod pipe/tilde but for people who do, it's not offered in this set in any kit.

Standardizing by GMK is not something I would support. Say I already have a set which has all layout support (e.g. base with iso extensions, extra B, F13, alice spacebars etc), and I like a new set - say 80085, although its base doesn't have ISO and the kitting is bad, since I'm only going to use it for that one TKL, I'm okay with paying 100$ for it and not buy other child kits. For all other boards, I could use my other set. In this scenario, 80085 is a "luxury" not a "necessity" (I know everything in this hobby is a luxury). This option - to buy only the base for 100$ for TKLs - wouldn't be possible with standardization. Not to mention all the new folks in the hobby are only going to use Dixie's base kit.
« Last Edit: Sun, 17 January 2021, 06:28:58 by aa212121 »