Razer Mechanical?

[ManjyomeThunder]

Oh, I thought you meant RAZER had press releases that mentioned Cherry MX switches specifically.

[lmnop]

negative comrade.

[Bullveyr]

I wonder why Bullveyr hasn't found out the switch type yet, despite his japanese and chinese skills. : P  yeah guess they don't know better.

I would have gotten a confirmation after Gamescom, not from some stupid marketing dude who has no clue but most likely from R&D guy but no need for that anymore:

Razer Blueprints Forum: BlackWidow uses MX blues

(a pic without the blue lightning would have been better )

So all the marketing blahblah is basically a simpel lie.

[lmnop]

oh by the lords of kobol. what did Razer lie about?

[lmnop]

look at the keycaps on the Blackwidow wobbly just like the Adesso

[ManjyomeThunder]

DING DING DING, WE HAVE A WINRAAAAR.

Thanks for the confirmation on the MX Blues, Bullveyr. Now we can finally be done speculating and begin placing pre-orders.

I'm happy about the Blues myself. Should make for a good experience coming from the heavier buckling springs of my Unicomp.

-edit-

Oh, and I fail to see how their marketing was a "lie". I don't know of any other 'gaming keyboards' that are mechanical and make use of Blues, mainly because Blues are usually not suggested for gaming. Except the iOne of course, but considering it appears Razer is "borrowing" their design, I don't see that as a major issue. The ABS M1 uses Fukkas, the 7G uses MX Blacks and the Decks use MX Blacks and Clears. Razer is correct in pointing out that they are indeed much lighter, and they pretty much did state "Yes, we used pre-existing components, but we chose them carefully".

[ManjyomeThunder]

The normal BlackWidow looks rather bland for a Razer product. The images on their website really are flattering compared to the above comparison photo of the 7G.

Do keycaps from other boards with Cherry switches generally fit each other? Sorry if that's a stupid question, but I've not any experience with them. If so, I might buy the purple WASD keys for the Majestouch off elitekeyboards and stick them on to make it a bit more interesting, or try to find some white keycaps and dye them.

[lmnop]

The normal BlackWidow looks rather bland for a Razer product. The images on their website really are flattering compared to the above comparison photo of the 7G.

Do keycaps from other boards with Cherry switches generally fit each other? Sorry if that's a stupid question, but I've not any experience with them. If so, I might buy the purple WASD keys for the Majestouch off elitekeyboards and stick them on to make it a bit more interesting, or try to find some white keycaps and dye them.

yes.

[r3n4m3]

This is great news, so Razer use Cherry MX Blue switchers. But we have another quests, what about N-Key Rollover, i was see at this photo BW use usb connector and dont have PS/2 adapter. So now I can understand why Razer write this - Gaming optimized key matrix for minimized ghosting. KBoard have 104+5 buttons, if use PS/2 adapter can have Full-NKRO? And I have interest about localize version, BW have big lеtters, how they want to find place for foreign letters on keycaps, and how they can illuminated?

[lmnop]

This is great news, so Razer use Cherry MX Blue switchers. But we have another quests, what about N-Key Rollover, i was see at this photo BW use usb connector and dont have PS/2 adapter. So now I can understand why Razer write this - Gaming optimized key matrix for minimized ghosting. KBoard have 104+5 buttons, if use PS/2 adapter can have Full-NKRO? And I have interest about localize version, BW have big lеtters, how they want to find place for foreign letters on keycaps, and how they can illuminated?

no it doesn't have Full NKRO it uses a optimized matrix like the Razer Lycosa.

[r3n4m3]

Why do u think so?

[lmnop]

Why do u think so?

Gaming optimized key matrix for minimized ghosting

sounds like the Lycosa to me.

[r3n4m3]

They can't use that matrix, cuz BW use 104+5 keys, so that is another.

[lmnop]

Anti-ghosting
Conventional keyboards are designed to process up a limited number of simultaneous keypresses, and key ghosting typically occurs for certain combinations of 3 keys. When these three keys are pressed simultaneously, this will result either in the third key being ignored or having 'phantom' fourth keypress being erroneously registered by the keyboard.

Anti-ghosting features prevent this from happening on gaming keyboards. Keyboards can have full, selective anti-ghosting or an optimized gaming matrix to minimize this effect. Keyboards with full anti-ghosting can recognize any number of simultaneous keystrokes and usually require a native PS/2 connection. Selective anti-ghosting on keyboards prevent ghosting on the key regions commonly used in gaming, including the WASD key cluster.

A gaming optimized key matrix eliminates ghosting from the keyboard regardless of location of the keys. While selective anti-ghosting only removes the phenomenon of ghosting from certain 'hotspots', the optimized key matrix is more versatile as it is not restricted to one portion of the keyboard. Thus, the keyboard can accommodate vastly more gaming key-combinations, and therefore would be suitable for virtually all playing styles and game genres.

I found this in a Razer Keyboard Guide.

[lmnop]

Anti-ghosting
Conventional keyboards are designed to process up a limited number of simultaneous keypresses, and key ghosting typically occurs for certain combinations of 3 keys. When these three keys are pressed simultaneously, this will result either in the third key being ignored or having 'phantom' fourth keypress being erroneously registered by the keyboard.

Anti-ghosting features prevent this from happening on gaming keyboards. Keyboards can have full, selective anti-ghosting or an optimized gaming matrix to minimize this effect. Keyboards with full anti-ghosting can recognize any number of simultaneous keystrokes and usually require a native PS/2 connection. Selective anti-ghosting on keyboards prevent ghosting on the key regions commonly used in gaming, including the WASD key cluster.

A gaming optimized key matrix eliminates ghosting from the keyboard regardless of location of the keys. While selective anti-ghosting only removes the phenomenon of ghosting from certain 'hotspots', the optimized key matrix is more versatile as it is not restricted to one portion of the keyboard. Thus, the keyboard can accommodate vastly more gaming key-combinations, and therefore would be suitable for virtually all playing styles and game genres.

I found this in the Razer Keyboard Guide.

[lmnop]

haha

[erricrice]

It might not be the Blues.  My first reaction was Fukkas.  It might BE the Blues.

Actually I believe they are talking about needing to bottom out Rubber  Domes.  Frankly, most people outside Geekhack have NO CLUE what any of this is abouit so educating the press  corps can't hurt.

It's just these Vloggers with drug addled brains that will never get it.

Yeah, I know most people have no clue what mech switches are, but they are specifically saying "other mechanincal keyboards" on the market that don't actuate halfway down.  

Just more retardedness.

Anyways, awesome that they have blues, and yeah, at that price point, what could it be but another iOne?

[Bullveyr]

oh by the lords of kobol. what did Razer lie about?

With the very realisticassumption that it"s normal MX blues and not modified ones:

THE WORLD’S FIRST MECHANICAL KEYBOARD DESIGNED FOR GAMING

If you define gaming by fancy lighning there is the Deck, if you define it by macros, which most people don't even use ingame but still nice to have, there is that Gigabyte keyboard.
OK, they have both but that's all.

I don't really have a problem with this statement, just the usual marketing.

The Razer BlackWidow features a uniquely tactile mechanical key architecture that provides each key on the keyboard with a crisp response and tactile feedback similar to a mouse click. Coupled with a unique key actuation point halfway through the full travel distance, the optimized mechanical key structure found in each of the Razer BlackWidow’s keys provide for greater precision and accuracy versus other traditional mechanical keyboards.  

The key actuation force has been optimized by the Razer design team from readily available components ...

not true



The actuation force comparison would only be true if you ignore all the other MX blue keyboards and you still need 60g of force with blues.
Which switch has an actuation force of 80g?
Which switch needs full travel to actuate?

All in all they wan't people to belive that they have some special mechanical key switch which you can't get somewhere else.


If it turns out that the MX blues the use are some kind of modified I take it back and you can expect me to send Razer an apology mail.

Still I hope this will be a quality keyboard which sells well.

[bhtooefr]

80g would be the higher end of the buckling spring range.

Also, full travel to actuate... it's not actually that full travel is required on everything else, they're claiming half travel.

That said, they're still pretty much describing stock blues, which have been in other keyboards. And IIRC browns have ended up in gaming-oriented keyboards before.

[ch_123]

I think Brother Switch buckling springs might be up in the 75-80g region...

[ManjyomeThunder]

The actuation force comparison would only be true if you ignore all the other MX blue keyboards and you still need 60g of force with blues.
Which switch has an actuation force of 80g?
Which switch needs full travel to actuate?

No, it wouldn't, because Razer quite clearly writes "mechanical gaming keyboard" in all of its comparisons and charts. Unless you know of some other gaming keyboards that use Cherry MX Blues, I'm pretty sure they're technically fine. Decks use Clears and Blacks. ABS M1 uses Fukkas. Steelseries uses Blacks.

And all of the sources I'm reading say Blues require 50g, so I'm not sure where you're getting 60g.

[Phaedrus2129]

No, it wouldn't, because Razer quite clearly writes "mechanical gaming keyboard" in all of its comparisons and charts. Unless you know of some other gaming keyboards that use Cherry MX Blues, I'm pretty sure they're technically fine. Decks use Clears and Blacks. ABS M1 uses Fukkas. Steelseries uses Blacks.

And all of the sources I'm reading say Blues require 50g, so I'm not sure where you're getting 60g.

XArmor U9BL...


Also blacks bottom out at 80g so that's probably what they're referring to, taking a jab at Steelseries and Deck.

[ManjyomeThunder]

Actuation versus Tactile point.  Different specs (see the Cherry Switch Wiki).  Although if you use the RipOmeter it reads closer to the Actuation number.  And it sure doesn't FEEL like 60g.

Razer's website says "actuation force" pretty clearly, so I'm not sure how saying 50g is a lie in any case.

[ManjyomeThunder]

XArmor U9BL...


Also blacks bottom out at 80g so that's probably what they're referring to, taking a jab at Steelseries and Deck.

The XArmor being an iOne, whom Razer appears to be working with. Doesn't particularly seem like an issue to me.

[lmnop]

Razer is going to sell more units in 4 quarters than Metadot and Diatec ever have. it's going to be more difficult to convince people to buy them because the Razer Blackwidow has a lot of features, the quality is probably no better or worse than Costar and it's only $79/129 not to mention all the rebates or sales it will have.

[Ekaros]

Btw, this is acctualy pretty terrible news for me, now I got 3rd/4th keyboard to get... Maybe I need a job or something...

[Ekaros]

Why do you need a job?  You live in Finland.

But, I only get 300€+250€ and have to pay 320€ of rent and then electricity... Or I could take goverment backed loan of 300€... Also, Finland isn't too cheap...

[lmnop]

change careers become a NHL goalie you can't be any worse than Toskala.

[instantkamera]

instantkamera
21 hours ago
Comment removed

Boooooo. fwiw I wrote something along the lines of how ridiculous it is to expect to get away with knowing nothing about keyboards when you  are, in fact, reviewing a keyboard.

I then called into question his legitimacy as a proper "reviewer" as he has a clear bias:

"Check out my Team Razer page"

yeah, that's integrity.

He removed my comment after posting some childish response that would have been insulting, were he not so bad at so many things.
Presumably he thought twice about responding so poorly to a valid comment and removed his own dumbass post too (which I still have a copy of from my gmail):

@instantkamera Jealously seeping out of your acne paws?

lol wut

I think razer are more forwarded to marketing their products with individuals of certain favourable linked talents as opposed to some rodent with a vast knowledge of why a button, is a button.

That doesn't make sense, except the marketing part. So it is clear, this is marketing, not a review. Thanks random "gamer" dude.

The masses don't care how the key clicks and quite frankly, neither do I.

Clearly not actually reading all the comments to his video before posting his retarded responses. I don't buy it though, as the video's synopsis actually reads:

My review on razer's new gaming keyboard, the Black Widow.
This keyboard separates itself from the rest by using mechanical engineering within each individual key. This pushes both its value and functionality!

Which according to his newly stated views on switches, SHOULD read:

This keyboard separates itself from the rest by nothing at all, as it is exactly like all the other POS gaming keyboards, or possibly slightly worse. Razor DID use a different mechanism for key actuation, but nobody in their right mind gives a flying **** about that, so the only thing that makes this keyboard worth the price is that is has the word "ULTIMATE" in it's name. Buy it now, because it ROCKS based on that reason alone.

twat.

[instantkamera]

change careers become a NHL goalie you can't be any worse than Toskala.

Could be Carey Price ...

[ManjyomeThunder]

Now that lmnop is back.....

R.I.P. Deck.

Show Image

If TG3 (owner of Deck) was a public company I'd be shorting their stock.

I still don't see how Deck Keyboards were sustainable to sell in the first place. The font is ugly as sin, there are cheaper options with MX Blacks and the backlighting is nothing more than a "Wow" feature.

Screw the BlackWidow "Ultimate" as well.

[Bullveyr]

No, it wouldn't, because Razer quite clearly writes "mechanical gaming keyboard" in all of its comparisons and charts. Unless you know of some other gaming keyboards that use Cherry MX Blues, I'm pretty sure they're technically fine. Decks use Clears and Blacks. ABS M1 uses Fukkas. Steelseries uses Blacks.

And to my knowledge non of those have a actuation force of 80g and/or full travel.

The Razer BlackWidow's uniquely tactile mechanical key architecture with an actuation point halfway through the full distance of 4mm, combined with its distinct tactile feedback with the precision of a mouse click, allows the Razer BlackWidow Ultimate to provide gamers a keyboard that respons like no other.

meh

[ManjyomeThunder]

And to my knowledge non of those have a actuation force of 80g and/or full travel.



meh

They quote a range of 60-80g. A range merely means that values fall within it. They could say 60 to one billion grams, and as long as the values fell SOMEWHERE in there, their advertising would technically be fine.

[ManjyomeThunder]

In any case, the marketing BS could be worse. They could pull an Apple and claim they actually invented mechanical keyboards.

[ch_123]

Lots of hate being expelled on some gob****e on Youtube. Let's get back to the topic at hand - how this is another boring generic Cherry keyboard...

[ManjyomeThunder]

Lots of hate being expelled on some gob****e on Youtube. Let's get back to the topic at hand - how this is another boring generic Cherry keyboard...

Yes, it is a boring, generic Cherry keyboard...but it's cheap! I was going to get a Filco, but this is cheaper and has macro keys. And it'll be widely available, giving more people a chance to get into using mechanical boards.

[ManjyomeThunder]

Dude, you just like to rant.

I've been found out.

Oh, and that's a good point with the chart mislabeling. Then again, figures like "1/2" have to be relative to something.

I just think it's silly to get ticked off with Razer for not marketing every single aspect of the keyboard in the most proper way. A lot of the information is true, if only poorly delivered. And even if it does stretch the truth a small amount, it's not as if consumers are going to learn about mechanical keyboards in some other magical way. I didn't get one until it was recommended to me expressly. If Razer bs'es a little bit just to get people to buy one and be interested to begin with, I don't see much harm in it.

[ManjyomeThunder]

lol.  That's why you'll fit right into Geekhack!

Good to hear, thanks.

[Bullveyr]

Well imho if you compare your product in such a detail with other products I can also look into that comparison in such a detail.

But you are right, the marketing could be worse, imagine how Roccats marketing on such a keyboard would be.

[lmnop]

I still don't see how Deck Keyboards were sustainable to sell in the first place. The font is ugly as sin, there are cheaper options with MX Blacks and the backlighting is nothing more than a "Wow" feature.

Screw the BlackWidow "Ultimate" as well.

have you ever seen the inside of a Deck keyboard?

[ch_123]

I dreamt that I bought one of these last night. I REALLY have to stop reading OCN.

[lmnop]

this r3n4m3 russian has been sitting in this thread for 2 days he is creeping me out.

[r3n4m3]

[lmnop]

I am only kidding Boris

[r3n4m3]

Have somebody new information about BW? Especially interest is NKRO.
off-top: Boris, hahaha :biggrin1: stereotype name of Russian :focus:

[lmnop]

[goneim]

Someone give a try and post a review here please

Seriously, I don't like the way the Fn-keys are placed. And the macro keys just make the keyboard super wide

[lmnop]

Someone give a try and post a review here please

Seriously, I don't like the way the Fn-keys are placed. And the macro keys just make the keyboard super wide

would you rather they replace the L-Windows Key with a Function Key?

[lmnop]

My kid told a Ukranian(or whatever) taxi driver "Do svidaniya!" and boy did he get pissed.  "I'm NOT Russian!!!".

lol

how high do you think the return rate will be for this keyboard. malfunctioning switches? squeaking?

[mogno]

Not the best place to make my first post, I think, but nevermind...

I got the point why that board's called geekhack - hilarious people around here. I like it. Especially guys who stand out like ripster - you rock, man.

@all: Thanks for all the information on that keyboard. Was quite informative - more as I expected it was when first coming to the site. I was like "okay...some nerds babbling around, talking about Razer being a company shouting out lies" (yeah ... some points run to that argument - but without ranting ... too much).

Will stay here for a while ... though I'm putting money into stuff that stands out (I really don't need that tiny display of my G19 nor do I need the makro-keys ... yet ... and my Razer Mamba does no better job than my MS IE I bought years ago. Have around five broken MS/Razer Habus in my cupboard ...) I find it hard to find what's really worth my money. Never heard the names of e.g. iOne here in Germany... till today.

So all your time on this board isn't wasted - it helps people like me. Just wanted you to know