[IC] FROG TKL - Sales start on 30st June

[guill3m]

Why do you guys have to pay twice as much?

Likely import fees, taxes, shipping, and other stuff that you might get charged

How much import fee and tax do you pay for the $300 keyboard? Aren't fees the same for vendors?

For Germany that would be 19% VAT plus another 17.5% Import tax (caculated on the price after VAT).
So for a total of board + shipping of 400 USD (285 board + 45 PCB + 70 shipping to get a round number): 400*1.19*1.175-400 = 159.3 USD in VAT + Imports, plus likely another 25 EUR on top as "handling fee" from DHL

Having an EU vendor I would assume a price close to 1USD = 1EUR or slightly more, still cheaper than paying those import fees, and probably cheaper shipping.

[Ustinj]

King 🐸

[despairsray]

Been ready. Ready to grab one with a 50a. 

[Fnzzy]

Why do you guys have to pay twice as much?

Likely import fees, taxes, shipping, and other stuff that you might get charged

How much import fee and tax do you pay for the $300 keyboard? Aren't fees the same for vendors?

I will come up with yet another calculation. It's likely that I won't be able to join round 1 so let's assume the board is $300 + $50 pcb + $50 shipping to Germany that's a $400 purchase. After arriving in Germany it gets slapped on a 19% tax which is about $75 and on top of that a handling fee. DHL takes around 6€ last time I imported, FedEx takes around 16€ or so. So that $300 keyboard is easily around $500 after everything is said and done.

[Que7797]

Hell. Yea.

[TibtibThePrincess]

Why do you guys have to pay twice as much?

Likely import fees, taxes, shipping, and other stuff that you might get charged

How much import fee and tax do you pay for the $300 keyboard? Aren't fees the same for vendors?

I will come up with yet another calculation. It's likely that I won't be able to join round 1 so let's assume the board is $300 + $50 pcb + $50 shipping to Germany that's a $400 purchase. After arriving in Germany it gets slapped on a 19% tax which is about $75 and on top of that a handling fee. DHL takes around 6€ last time I imported, FedEx takes around 16€ or so. So that $300 keyboard is easily around $500 after everything is said and done.

Same for me I was really excited for this board because $330 for a board like this sounds pretty good but like other said shipping and import fees to EU would make it almost twice as expensive.

[keyboard_mcm]

It sounds like following:

EU End user buying from EU vendor:

• EU Vendor Price
• EU-EU Shipping Price
• EU VAT Price on (EU Vendor Price)

EU End user buying from non EU vendor:

• non-EU Vendor Price
• non-EU Shipping Price
• EU Import Fee on (non-EU Vendor Price + non-EU shipping price)
• EU VAT Fee on (non-EU Vendor Price + non-EU shipping price)

I have further questions to people from EU.
Since the EU vendor have higher cost of shipping fee from the manufacturer, EU vendor price will be more expensive.
If non-EU vendor price is $300 and EU vendor price is $400, then is buying from EU vendor still cheaper?

[Avishay]

the god himself, definitely in 🐸

[Bl4ck]

It sounds like following:

EU End user buying from EU vendor:

• EU Vendor Price
• EU-EU Shipping Price
• EU VAT Price on (EU Vendor Price)

EU End user buying from non EU vendor:

• non-EU Vendor Price
• non-EU Shipping Price
• EU Import Fee on (non-EU Vendor Price + non-EU shipping price)
• EU VAT Fee on (non-EU Vendor Price + non-EU shipping price)

I have further questions to people from EU.
Since the EU vendor have higher cost of shipping fee from the manufacturer, EU vendor price will be more expensive.
If non-EU vendor price is $300 and EU vendor price is $400, then is buying from EU vendor still cheaper?

You can check from past GBs even low quantity GBs, and the price is never like that. If the board is 300$ on non-EU vendor, its normally 300€.

[slg1993]

HYPE

[Zach]

🐸 nice

[Ciantha]

It sounds like following:

EU End user buying from EU vendor:

• EU Vendor Price
• EU-EU Shipping Price
• EU VAT Price on (EU Vendor Price)

EU End user buying from non EU vendor:

• non-EU Vendor Price
• non-EU Shipping Price
• EU Import Fee on (non-EU Vendor Price + non-EU shipping price)
• EU VAT Fee on (non-EU Vendor Price + non-EU shipping price)

I have further questions to people from EU.
Since the EU vendor have higher cost of shipping fee from the manufacturer, EU vendor price will be more expensive.
If non-EU vendor price is $300 and EU vendor price is $400, then is buying from EU vendor still cheaper?

The name of the game is shipping. You pay VAT on shipping when importing so 100 usd shipping adds 120-125 to price (VAT is usually betwen 20% and 25%).
A 300 dollar board + 100 dollar shipping is 400. Times 1.25 for VAT (Sweden has high VAT) is 500 and then you add an extra 20 for customs clearance so 520 final price. So yes, paying a vendor 400 with maybe 30 usd shipping would still save me 90usd.

A vendor has cheaper shipping per unit and spreads the clearance fee (though generally a higher clearance fee) between multiple orders.

[keyboard_mcm]

You can check from past GBs even low quantity GBs, and the price is never like that. If the board is 300$ on non-EU vendor, its normally 300€.

The name of the game is shipping. You pay VAT on shipping when importing so 100 usd shipping adds 120-125 to price (VAT is usually betwen 20% and 25%).
A 300 dollar board + 100 dollar shipping is 400. Times 1.25 for VAT (Sweden has high VAT) is 500 and then you add an extra 20 for customs clearance so 520 final price. So yes, paying a vendor 400 with maybe 30 usd shipping would still save me 90usd.

A vendor has cheaper shipping per unit and spreads the clearance fee (though generally a higher clearance fee) between multiple orders.

Got it. Thanks for the clarification.
So, it looks like about $30 - 80 difference if there were just a EU vendor.
Let me know if the below calculation is wrong.

EU End user buying from EU vendor:

• EU Vendor Price: $365
• EU-EU Shipping Price: $30
• EU VAT Price on (EU Vendor Price): $300 * 20% = $60

Total: $365 + $30 + $60 = $455

EU End user buying from non EU vendor:

• non-EU Vendor Price: $300
• non-EU Shipping Price: $100
• EU Import Fee on (non-EU Vendor Price + non-EU shipping price): $0 according to my search from http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/customs/customs_duties/tariff_aspects/customs_tariff/index_en.htm
• EU VAT Fee on (non-EU Vendor Price + non-EU shipping price): ($300 + $100) * 20% = $80
• EU Custom Handling Fee: $25

Total: $300 + $100 + $80 + $25 = $505

[Bl4ck]

You can check from past GBs even low quantity GBs, and the price is never like that. If the board is 300$ on non-EU vendor, its normally 300€.

The name of the game is shipping. You pay VAT on shipping when importing so 100 usd shipping adds 120-125 to price (VAT is usually betwen 20% and 25%).
A 300 dollar board + 100 dollar shipping is 400. Times 1.25 for VAT (Sweden has high VAT) is 500 and then you add an extra 20 for customs clearance so 520 final price. So yes, paying a vendor 400 with maybe 30 usd shipping would still save me 90usd.

A vendor has cheaper shipping per unit and spreads the clearance fee (though generally a higher clearance fee) between multiple orders.

Got it. Thanks for the clarification.
So, it looks like about $30 - 80 difference if there were just a EU vendor.
Let me know if the below calculation is wrong.

EU End user buying from EU vendor:

• EU Vendor Price: $365
• EU-EU Shipping Price: $30
• EU VAT Price on (EU Vendor Price): $300 * 20% = $60

Total: $365 + $30 + $60 = $455

EU End user buying from non EU vendor:

• non-EU Vendor Price: $300
• non-EU Shipping Price: $100
• EU Import Fee on (non-EU Vendor Price + non-EU shipping price): $0 according to my search from http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/customs/customs_duties/tariff_aspects/customs_tariff/index_en.htm
• EU VAT Fee on (non-EU Vendor Price + non-EU shipping price): ($300 + $100) * 20% = $80
• EU Custom Handling Fee: $25

Total: $300 + $100 + $80 + $25 = $505

I'm not 100% sure on how the calculation is on the side of the EU vendor, but I can assure you the difference is not 80 dollars.

Lets say Mykeyboardeu was proxying it in EU, what normally happens is that if the board is 285 USD on US vendor, the board is 285 EUR on EU vendor.

So you would pay the 285 + shipping which in case of mykeyboardeu its a flat rate of 13 euros i think so in total you would pay around 365 after conversion to USD.

Compared to the 505 USD you did the math on (which is correct)

[keyboard_mcm]

I'm not 100% sure on how the calculation is on the side of the EU vendor, but I can assure you the difference is not 80 dollars.

You said the $300 non EU vendor and 300 euro EU vendor.
300 euro roughly equals to 365 USD.
What other costs am I missing?

[Bl4ck]

I'm not 100% sure on how the calculation is on the side of the EU vendor, but I can assure you the difference is not 80 dollars.

You said the $300 non EU vendor and 300 euro EU vendor.
300 euro roughly equals to 365 USD.
What other costs am I missing?

The price the EU vendor sells it for (the 300 euro, 365 USD in your example) already includes the VAT.

What I am saying is from experience from actually buying stuff in EU and comparing to what I would pay from US. I don't know exactly how EU vendors can reach that price as yes they do pay the same import fees as personal imports but they can spread the import fees through the whole shipment.

If I buy anything from a EU vendor at this very moment, VAT is included.

[keyboard_mcm]

Understood. Sounds like EU vendors are reducing the VAT for EU customers with the cost of bulk shipment cost.
This is interesting because I've seen some vendors in US charge sales tax, but some doesn't.

[guill3m]

EU Import Fee on (non-EU Vendor Price + non-EU shipping price): $0 according to my search

This would not be correct. A commercial shipment (buying something online) will not pay import fees (only VAT) if its value (that includes shipping paid) is under 150 EUR. For anything above 150 is where things get ugly: one would pay VAT and Import Taxes. While the exact percentages for VAT and Import Tax vary from country to country, the 150 EUR value to charge import tax is the same for all EU.

One can always be lucky and not getting they package checked and thus avoiding paying anything, in my experience those cases are not the norm and only a few lower value items fly under the radar.

[guill3m]

Understood. Sounds like EU vendors are reducing the VAT for EU customers with the cost of bulk shipment cost.
This is interesting because I've seen some vendors in US charge sales tax, but some doesn't.

Also because they are paying import taxes based on the manufacturer price and not the retail price.

[Bl4ck]

EU Import Fee on (non-EU Vendor Price + non-EU shipping price): $0 according to my search

This would not be correct. A commercial shipment (buying something online) will not pay import fees (only VAT) if its value (that includes shipping paid) is under 150 EUR. For anything above 150 is where things get ugly: one would pay VAT and Import Taxes. While the exact percentages for VAT and Import Tax vary from country to country, the 150 EUR value to charge import tax is the same for all EU.

One can always be lucky and not getting they package checked and thus avoiding paying anything, in my experience those cases are not the norm and only a few lower value items fly under the radar.

Its not the same in all EU, its 22 euro for Portugal for example, and it is going to change to 0 euro soon.

[guill3m]

EU Import Fee on (non-EU Vendor Price + non-EU shipping price): $0 according to my search

This would not be correct. A commercial shipment (buying something online) will not pay import fees (only VAT) if its value (that includes shipping paid) is under 150 EUR. For anything above 150 is where things get ugly: one would pay VAT and Import Taxes. While the exact percentages for VAT and Import Tax vary from country to country, the 150 EUR value to charge import tax is the same for all EU.

One can always be lucky and not getting they package checked and thus avoiding paying anything, in my experience those cases are not the norm and only a few lower value items fly under the radar.

Its not the same in all EU, its 22 euro for Portugal for example, and it is going to change to 0 euro soon.

Less than €22 you don’t pay anything.
Between 22 and 150 you only pay VAT.
Above 150 you pay VAT and Import Tax.

[keyboard_mcm]

EU Import Fee on (non-EU Vendor Price + non-EU shipping price): $0 according to my search

This would not be correct. A commercial shipment (buying something online) will not pay import fees (only VAT) if its value (that includes shipping paid) is under 150 EUR. For anything above 150 is where things get ugly: one would pay VAT and Import Taxes. While the exact percentages for VAT and Import Tax vary from country to country, the 150 EUR value to charge import tax is the same for all EU.

One can always be lucky and not getting they package checked and thus avoiding paying anything, in my experience those cases are not the norm and only a few lower value items fly under the radar.

Understood. Sounds like EU vendors are reducing the VAT for EU customers with the cost of bulk shipment cost.
This is interesting because I've seen some vendors in US charge sales tax, but some doesn't.

Also because they are paying import taxes based on the manufacturer price and not the retail price.

From my experience with other B2B goods, the import tax rate is only dependent on the HS code.
It shouldn't matter whether you are a commercial or non-commercial entity.
I can't look up the EU site right now, but HS code for the keyboard is 8471.60, which seems to be 0% in my 5 min. Google search.
I could be wrong on the import tax percentage, but it's going to only apply to the keyboard not the shipping.

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/measures.jsp?Lang=en&SimDate=20210517&Area=&MeasType=&StartPub=&EndPub=&MeasText=&GoodsText=&op=&Taric=847160&search_text=goods&textSearch=&LangDescr=en&OrderNum=&Regulation=&measStartDat=&measEndDat=

[guill3m]

Edited: anyway, there is no point to continue: it is more convenient and generally cheaper for EU customers to buy from an EU vendor. In the end it is for the GB runner to decide where and how to run it and the margins can affect this decision. Personally I’ll be looking to buy this board regardless if it is from an EU vendor or from Swagkeys.

[treeleaf64]

I think Geon is my friend but I'm not sure yet.  We haven't talked enough. 
Uhh the keyboard is nice   I like top  mount

  and it's Geon he knows what he is doing  So you can buy it and feel happy with your purchase.

[Jefff]

frog so lit, geon so lit

[Tree_]

Need to see the purple, but for the price probably in.

[Kokaloo]

super excited, love the massive amount of boards you'll have available and the great price point. definitely going to be going for one in the upcoming months, love how i'm in no rush to grab one either.

[naasfu]

frog looks great. and the price and the goal of making this available for everyone is awesome. definitely interested.

[MiguelFg]

Another EU buyer here, sadly I want the board so bad, but I'm not able to spend double the prize to ship it from Korea. I hope in future rounds you could add some EU vendor on the mix. There's a whole other market there.

[Chuuu]

i love geon

[Iksion]

So it will be up on 21.05, am I right?

[LOLWK]

Love everything about this. Please make green a standard color released in every batch.

[Lysol_]

 i will simp for geon

[Firahlol]

EU buyer here, Germany.
I really want to buy this, but considering there's no EU proxy, I am looking at +500 USD due to VAT + Import tax + clearance and other smaller fees...which makes me a very sad frog

[nikotypo]

+1 for acquiring an EU vendor for the next round!

[Sck]

The hero we needed but not deserve, Geon.

[MeisterGrinsepo]

EU Import Fee on (non-EU Vendor Price + non-EU shipping price): $0 according to my search

This would not be correct. A commercial shipment (buying something online) will not pay import fees (only VAT) if its value (that includes shipping paid) is under 150 EUR. For anything above 150 is where things get ugly: one would pay VAT and Import Taxes. While the exact percentages for VAT and Import Tax vary from country to country, the 150 EUR value to charge import tax is the same for all EU.

One can always be lucky and not getting they package checked and thus avoiding paying anything, in my experience those cases are not the norm and only a few lower value items fly under the radar.

There is no import tax / zoll for keyboard parts tho

[Fnzzy]

Hey Geon if you can secure me a Frog spot I'll buy the damn thing and tell you all how much I paid getting it to Germany. Deal?

[vaporhollic]

Im in, no doubt.

[peaceperfection]

<3 Love you Geon, can't wait for this. (I will gladly donate $5 to you on Onlyfans).

[Firahlol]

EU Import Fee on (non-EU Vendor Price + non-EU shipping price): $0 according to my search

This would not be correct. A commercial shipment (buying something online) will not pay import fees (only VAT) if its value (that includes shipping paid) is under 150 EUR. For anything above 150 is where things get ugly: one would pay VAT and Import Taxes. While the exact percentages for VAT and Import Tax vary from country to country, the 150 EUR value to charge import tax is the same for all EU.

One can always be lucky and not getting they package checked and thus avoiding paying anything, in my experience those cases are not the norm and only a few lower value items fly under the radar.

There is no import tax / zoll for keyboard parts tho

Can you share the information source?
I paid import tax for my gat inks v2 from KBDfans.

[Reebes]

Board looks sweeeet. Concerned about Canuck prices but we’ll just have to wait and see.

[NRbigfoot]

Frog looks great, no way am I passing on this one! Thank you for wanting to produce this volume of boards.

[brln]

Another EU customer here. I would also highly appreciate a EU vendor.
Nevertheless, super relaxing to see one might actually get a board of this quality. Excited for purple!

[bansheetango]

+1 for EU 

[catamscott]

based geon

[ENG Studio]

Geon's stuff is simply the best.

[Gepriester]

As an EU customer: I'd rather buy from a proxy shop in the EU instead of oversea, because it's clear what I pay.

[kawhi]

red and burgundy options, fantastic. really looking forward to that release

[cwaaar]

Please give EU proxy Geon