Author Topic: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.  (Read 917592 times)

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Offline bisl

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1150 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 15:58:00 »
/snip

No offense man, but for someone dying of typing-related pain, you sure type a lot in here.

Your criticisms are noteworthy, but this design is beyond finalized; rather than picking apart the ErgoDox, it might be time to start conceiving an ErgoChaos offshoot in a different thread. The Ergodox is a great advancement, but it wasn't tailor-made for you and you shouldn't treat it as such. I don't mean to shut you down, but your posts here are proving unproductive.

Offline haskellelephant

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1151 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 16:11:41 »

1. The thumb buttons are built into the hand buttons.  I never asked for that and don't exactly want it due to this makes the keyboard as a whole take up a huge amount of deskspace.  This means the keyboard either: A) Won't work for me.  B) Will work for me but it will always be hanging off the edge of my lapmat or the edge of my rollerdesk and eventually will fall off and break.


Your definition of huge is a bit weird. The roller board can handle a 15' laptop right, by my estimate it should also fit the keyboard although someone that actually have the dimensions
of the keyboard must confirm this.

Rule #13 The keyboard shall not be any higher than neccessary or extreme arm pain shall cause paralysis or death.

It would probably be cheaper to just buy an adjustable desk, for example this one: http://www.amazon.com/Safco-1925CY-Adjustable-Workstation-Laminate/dp/B001MS70T8/ref=sr_1_9?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1358113226&sr=1-9&keywords=height+adjustable+desk

Rule #2. If you break Rule#1 then you MUST keep the mouse right in front of you.  None of this nonsense keeping the mouse way up on a tall desk out beyond your numeric keypad. 

You could have the mouse between the parts of the keyboard if you want...

How do you know it actually works?  Have u tried it?  What if there is a bug in the controller software so that you can redefine any key you want except the layer keys?  That is exactly the kind of bug/limitation I would expect.
The board is built with a teensy microcontroller. If there is a bug in the software you can replace the software since the source is available. Looking at the source, it should be possible to change the layer keys. If there actually is a bug the rest of us would want to know about it and fix it.
If there is a problem with the teensy then 1) you might be eligable for a refund, and 2) they cost 16$.

Offline TotalChaos

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1152 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 16:13:44 »
if someone will fix the USB/PS/2 issue.

Why is it an issue for you that it needs to be PS2?
Because PS/2 keyboards work on everything.
USB keyboards do not work on everything.

And as a free added bonus PS/2 is better than USB 1.1

Quote
Need more than 6KRO?
It is a very nice feature.  And I respect nice features.   It says to me "This keyboard is WORTH the $800.00 you paid for it".   But whatever.

Quote
Legacy pass-through devices,
Yes.  This is required.

Quote
or using it on an old system?
Yes.  This is required.


Why is it an issue for you that you need the PS/2 broken?

Why can't u let me have my PS/2 and be happy?

Rosewill is one of the worst keyboard companies around and they let me have PS/2.  Why not u?

I have a gazillion computers and they all have PS/2 ports.  All my KVM switches have PS/2 ports.  They all work.  I have never had a PS/2 port fail yet.

If I take my USB 1.1 ergodox to the factory to use it on the robots, oh wait I CAN'T use it because it won't work on PS/2 so forget that idea.  That means I have just spent months training my hands to use Ergodox for nothing because I still have to keep switching back and forth from 1 keyboard to another.

Part of Ergonomics is training your muscle memory to be really good with the keyboard you are using.  If I keep randomly switching between 11 different keyboards I will never get any good at any of them.  Pick something good, stick with it and get good at it.

Remember I am not like you.  I can't play keyboard games all day long.  I am crippled with pain.  I get a limited amount of keystrokes.  When I first start to learn Ergodox layout it is going to hurt a lot.  Why would I invest in learning a keyboard that doesn't actually work on millions of PS/2 devices?

I am trying to reduce my pain, not increase it.  That means pick the best keyboard I can get and learn that one keyboard and use that ONE keyboard on everything all the time until something better comes along.


Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
Rosewill RK-9000RE #2 (Lubed, still in the box.  I am afraid to use it because it will break like the first one)

Offline Glod

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1153 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 16:22:47 »
I asked you nicely above to not do this here again and you punched me in the stomach instead.

Offline dorkvader

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1154 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 16:24:18 »
> Dude, you can like totally redefine the layer keys to be shift keys.

How do you know it actually works?  Have u tried it?  What if there is a bug in the controller software so that you can redefine any key you want except the layer keys?  That is exactly the kind of bug/limitation I would expect.

If I could redefine the layer keys to be elsewhere, which other keys would I destroy?  This is why a keyboard needs a few extra keys on it so you don't get jammed up just because you want some extra shift keys.

You see, switching to Ergodox is a risk.
From looking at the code, as far as I can tell, they define every key function from a matrix, and then assign them to their proper positions. This means that every key is arbitrarily assigned, generally speaking it should mean that if it works at all, it will work other ways, too. The function key position is not hardcoded, because no key is hardcoded. Even on my access-IS keyboards, you can arbitrarily assign the function keys. When I get my ErgoDOX, I fully plan on testing out some interesting custom layouts. Moving the function layer-swap key is a useful thing that I'm certain I'll try. I also want to play with a layout with my most-used Function keys on it without the need for pressing a fn key to get them. This is one of the many good parts about a programmable keyboard.

And even if not, one of the best parts about open-source projects is that people can see what's there and fix bugs when they arise and are reported. This is pretty useful, especially if you offer bounties.

Also, why PS2? I don't think it has it now, but there is certainly a possibility of making this NKRO over USB, like what my soarer adapter does with my model F. I recognize it's good to have your preference, but I'm interested to know the reason.

---
Also about active USB to PS2 adapters, you may be able to use a KVM box for that. I don't have one, but it seems feasible. One reason they're so expensive is dealing with

Offline TotalChaos

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1155 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 16:53:09 »
If you want to be critical of the ErgoDox and split keyboard designs, i wouldn't suggest doing that here, i would create a new thread doing so.
I am not trying to be critical of the ErgoDox.
I was just answering questions that ppl keep repeatedly bombing me with.  Sordna asked me multiple times about the PS/2 thing in multiple different threads for example and then some other guys did too.  So I finally answered.

Don't think of it as some sort of crucifixion of ErgoDox in my previous msgs.

Think of it as me explaining that I really actually want to try an ErgoDox but I am in a specific situation and I answered ppl's questions to the best of my ability to explain this and that and the other.

If a mod wants to transfer the question that was asked of me and my "critical" response into a separate thread because some rule got broken or whatever then that is ok with me as long as the new thread maintains a logical coherency.

I am sorry that you feel I have polluted your thread.  But when I refuse to answer ppl's interrogations they get mad at me and say I am being evasive.
This has happened to me over and over again on GH.

Then when I answer they get mad at me and accuse me of insulting them or whatever thing they get mad about.

I just can't win.  :(


Quote
If you want to be critical of keyboards that do not support PS/2 such as Topre and others then also create a thread doing so instead of doing that in a unrelated thread. Creating a new thread is easy and there are multiple forums with different categories to create threads in. You are likely to get more accomplished in a new thread about your concerns than in posts you drop in on.
I will take that under consideration.

But I have a question: What are u going to do when the next person comes along who says "I am interested in an Ergodox but _____" ?
Are you going to give this same speech to every person?
Or is it something personal against me?  Or ?


Quote
The MassDrop GB seems to be a success, and people who are new to geekhack who were brought here by interest in the ErgoDox are going to see your posts in here and feel less inclined to participate altogether. This is exactly what happened lately in the Deskthority.net thread; things were very constructive in the thread and then it went to hell and actually caused people to loose interest in the ErgoDox the way i see it; thankfully DorkVader came to action.

I am not trying to "troll" you and get you worked up but you have insulted me,
I think you have misunderstood something.  I like u and would not insult u.
You have a Mark VII Glue Gun (+12 vs. Rosewills)  ;D

Quote
you have insulted ic07,
GRRR

I insulted ic07?!?

I offered him $200.00 to add PS/2 support to ErgoDox even though this will likely never benefit me.... I am just throwing $200.00 into the project and now u say I am insulting him!???

 :'(   >:D   >:D

Do you officially work for the Ergodox project?


Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
Rosewill RK-9000RE #2 (Lubed, still in the box.  I am afraid to use it because it will break like the first one)

Offline AloisiusFauxly

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1156 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 16:55:39 »
Well TC, if you have legit needs for PS/2 then that's just fine. But the stock ErgoDox is not for you then!

Offline TotalChaos

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1157 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 17:03:07 »
I asked you nicely above to not do this here again and you punched me in the stomach instead.
Do u understand that you guys all type like 40x faster than me?

When I post a msg it will typically say something like "There have been 8 new posts" or whatever.  The big msg that you are complaining about the most I think took me like 2.4 hours iirc.

Just to be clear,
1. You are saying I am not allowed to answer other ppl's questions in this thread.
2. I am not allowed to request any improvements.

Is that correct?

I will try to follow your rules.

Peace out
Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
Rosewill RK-9000RE #2 (Lubed, still in the box.  I am afraid to use it because it will break like the first one)

Offline litster

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1158 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 17:22:00 »
TotalChaos, OBVIOUSLY, this is not the keyboard you are looking for.  This keyboard is not designed for you.  So stop telling us how this keyboard doesn't work for you.  We all know that it doesn't work for you and you have special needs.  You can keeping typing your manifesto here in this thread till your hands die out and ErgoDox still wouldn't change into a keyboard that works for you and your PS/2-only hardware. 
« Last Edit: Sun, 13 January 2013, 17:23:56 by litster »

Offline OrangeJewce

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1159 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 17:24:16 »
I asked you nicely above to not do this here again and you punched me in the stomach instead.
Do u understand that you guys all type like 40x faster than me?

When I post a msg it will typically say something like "There have been 8 new posts" or whatever.  The big msg that you are complaining about the most I think took me like 2.4 hours iirc.

Just to be clear,
1. You are saying I am not allowed to answer other ppl's questions in this thread.
2. I am not allowed to request any improvements.

Is that correct?

I will try to follow your rules.

Peace out

You're being antagonistic at best right now Mr. TotalChaos. I strongly urge you to reconsider what other posters are saying:
1) Changing design for the keyboard isn't going to happen. This project is open source, if you want to build a different keyboard using this one, then you are more than welcome to do so.
2) As the design is final and the board is being produced, this thread is not the correct place for posting critiques. We have an entire forum for that, and are only requesting you not use this particular thread.
3) You haven't answered anyone's questions as far as I can tell, especially as to why you even need PS/2 support.

And to answer your points
1) You are welcome to answer other people's questions in this thread; not be argumentative or disjoint, which is what every post since the first has appeared to be from my perspective.
2) You are more than welcome to request improvements. But make a new thread to do so. This thread is all about the current eDox, not the next generation. You are being asked to respect that and not threadcrap.

Cheers,

IBM Model M 1390120, Otaku Unicomp+RGB, CM QFR Green, Ducky YOTD Red, SSK MKII,
ErgoDox Blue, ErgoDox White

Offline jabar

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1160 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 17:27:38 »
3) You haven't answered anyone's questions as far as I can tell, especially as to why you even need PS/2 support.
I'm pretty sure he made it clear he desires legacy support via PS/2.
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Offline TotalChaos

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1161 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 17:29:34 »
> Dude, you can like totally redefine the layer keys to be shift keys.

How do you know it actually works?  Have u tried it?  What if there is a bug in the controller software so that you can redefine any key you want except the layer keys?  That is exactly the kind of bug/limitation I would expect.

If I could redefine the layer keys to be elsewhere, which other keys would I destroy?  This is why a keyboard needs a few extra keys on it so you don't get jammed up just because you want some extra shift keys.

You see, switching to Ergodox is a risk.  EDIT: I meant a risk to _me_ because I need to shift with fingers other than my pinkies.  I didn't mean it is a risk to anybody else.  And I didn't mean "Risk" as in "Rosewill Risk" as in "complete failure" I just meant "it might not work out for _me_".

From looking at the code, as far as I can tell, they define every key function from a matrix, and then assign them to their proper positions. This means that every key is arbitrarily assigned, generally speaking it should mean that if it works at all, it will work other ways, too.
 The function key position is not hardcoded, because no key is hardcoded.
Ok that is good to know.  I am certain that if there are any bugs they will get fixed...

Quote
Also, why PS2?
You know perfectly good and well that Glod is going to ban me if I answer you so why are u still asking me ?

I could explain with other words/examples whatever but I can't.  Its against some rules or regulations or somesuch.

Quote
I don't think it has it now, but there is certainly a possibility of making this NKRO over USB, like what my soarer adapter does with my model F. I recognize it's good to have your preference, but I'm interested to know the reason.
Is the Teensy controller using USB2 or USB3?

If the controller is using USB1.1 as most do, then there is no 100% way of doing NKRO over USB.  It won't work.  It has never worked.  It might work on certain Operating Systems but then it will definitely not work on others.

You can't do NKRO over USB1.1 in a way that is universal.


Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
Rosewill RK-9000RE #2 (Lubed, still in the box.  I am afraid to use it because it will break like the first one)

Offline OrangeJewce

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1162 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 17:37:52 »
3) You haven't answered anyone's questions as far as I can tell, especially as to why you even need PS/2 support.
I'm pretty sure he made it clear he desires legacy support via PS/2.

We know what he wants... we don't know why. But thanks for your fantastically constructive post.

Cheers,
IBM Model M 1390120, Otaku Unicomp+RGB, CM QFR Green, Ducky YOTD Red, SSK MKII,
ErgoDox Blue, ErgoDox White

Offline jabar

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1163 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 17:41:31 »
We know what he wants... we don't know why. But thanks for your fantastically constructive post.
Cheers,
I do what I can. Thanks for crapping on a prospective buyer  :cool:
Leopold FC660C - Max Keyboard Nighthawk X8 - Ducky DK9008 Shine II 78 Edition - Noppoo Choc Mini - Cherry G80-2100HDD - Cherry G80-8113HDPUS - Plu-M87 - Leopold FC700R Ergo Clears - Deck Legend Frost 105 - IBM F PC Keyboard - IBM M 122 (Lexmark) - Apple Extended Keyboard II

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Offline AloisiusFauxly

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1164 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 17:42:40 »
Robots!

Quote from: TC
I have a gazillion computers and they all have PS/2 ports.  All my KVM switches have PS/2 ports.  They all work.  I have never had a PS/2 port fail yet.

If I take my USB 1.1 ergodox to the factory to use it on the robots, oh wait I CAN'T use it because it won't work on PS/2 so forget that idea.

Offline OrangeJewce

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1165 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 17:44:42 »

[stuff]

You can go ahead and Google the Teensy 2.0 controller and find the information you want about which USB protocols it supports.

Glod isn't a moderator or admin and has no Ban privileges.

Cheers,
IBM Model M 1390120, Otaku Unicomp+RGB, CM QFR Green, Ducky YOTD Red, SSK MKII,
ErgoDox Blue, ErgoDox White

Offline OrangeJewce

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1166 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 17:51:58 »
We know what he wants... we don't know why. But thanks for your fantastically constructive post.
Cheers,
I do what I can. Thanks for crapping on a prospective buyer  :cool:

You quote me, and then proceed to restate part of said quote and insinuate I didn't say something I, in fact, did.

You, Sir, began the mudslinging, and I was compelled to respond.

Cheers,
IBM Model M 1390120, Otaku Unicomp+RGB, CM QFR Green, Ducky YOTD Red, SSK MKII,
ErgoDox Blue, ErgoDox White

Offline Glod

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Re: Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1167 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 17:57:59 »
Glod isn't a moderator or admin and has no Ban privileges.

I hope it didn't come off that I was trying to be a moderator. As a fan of this project I was kindly informing TC that he had insulted people and asking to stop threadcrap and gave my argument.


Offline ic07

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1168 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 18:08:57 »
Looks like I missed most of a big argument o_o

@Glod
He was rather rude to me once, but he made a super nice apology for it, and I'm pretty sure he didn't mean it the way it sounded in the first place.  As for anyone else's feelings, I suppose it's not my business...  Still, if it helps: I don't get the impression he's trying to be especially antagonistic, he just doesn't seem to filter his phrasing as carefully as most.  He is from Texas... (lol sorry! I hope that's not waaay too inappropriate a joke.  I'm from SoCal :) for what it's worth, and I have a few really good friends in Texas, so ya).

And now I see antagonism towards him (not calling anyone out, just, in general)... which, as has been noted, it's *really* hard not to respond to.  But if we stop now, we might be good.

Also, I agree that we've gotten a bit OT, and I agree we should prolly stop that too.

@TC
About your offer: thanks again :) .  A lot can happen in a year, so we shall see.  If I do get around to PS/2 support, I'll do my best to look you up.  PS/2 support really *does* belong in the keyboard, and not in some adapter, now that I look at things more carefully.  But, etc., etc., it's just not there (yet?) :)

Edit (about being OT):
And, sorry everyone for my contribution to that :)
« Last Edit: Sun, 13 January 2013, 18:14:08 by ic07 »

Offline OrangeJewce

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1169 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 18:08:58 »
Glod isn't a moderator or admin and has no Ban privileges.

I hope it didn't come off that I was trying to be a moderator. As a fan of this project I was kindly informing TC that he had insulted people and asking to stop threadcrap and gave my argument.



I hear ya mate, just didn't want him to fear you.

Cheers,
IBM Model M 1390120, Otaku Unicomp+RGB, CM QFR Green, Ducky YOTD Red, SSK MKII,
ErgoDox Blue, ErgoDox White

Offline ic07

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1170 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 18:51:43 »
A couple quick responses to various things:
  • The Teensy 2.0 is USB 2.0 (which may not be obvious from the website, I only looked briefly; it's in the datasheet though)
  • The ErgoDox can use stabilizers, though (from experience) it's not at all bad without them.  If you want them, there's slots for this kind next to each of the 2x thumb keys (scroll to the bottom of the page; there's a few different pieces).

Offline bisl

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1171 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 20:00:48 »
I do what I can. Thanks for crapping on a prospective buyer  :cool:

I wouldn't go that far. He's been quite clear in declaring that ErgoDox doesn't work for him.

Offline alaricljs

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1172 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 20:20:15 »
And one last note:  The ErgoDox and any other keyboard not explicitly built to support PS/2 with the atmega32u4/32u2 and similar from the same family of chips will not ever support PS/2.  The entire line of chips has USB as part of it's design hard assigned to specific pins that can do nothing else.  In order to allow PS/2 someone would have to use general purpose IO pins and write PS/2 code for the AVR.  This would reduce the number of IO pins for the keyboard matrix, and would require that the keyboard have 2 separate IO connectors on it, one PS/2 one USB.

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Offline rknize

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1173 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 21:14:43 »
The controller inside of keyboards that can do dual USB and PS/2 have a special PHY that allows them to do this.  The Teensy just has a normal USB PHY.  So the only way to do it would be like alaric said.  Bit-banging PS/2 would probably work fine, but we'd need to the pins to do it.
Russ

Offline litster

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1174 on: Sun, 13 January 2013, 21:26:24 »
^

probably how OTD's Aikon controller does it.

Offline Dreadwyrm

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1175 on: Mon, 14 January 2013, 01:40:43 »
I'm interested as well, my only concern is the 4 normal sized thumb buttons, those seem a little bit hard to reach. Do you have to move your wrists to get to them? I've got medium-large sized hands btw.
« Last Edit: Mon, 14 January 2013, 04:55:21 by Dreadwyrm »

Das Model S Ultimate

Offline ic07

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1176 on: Mon, 14 January 2013, 04:56:46 »
Not the best pictures... but hopefully they can give you some idea :)







Offline Dreadwyrm

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1177 on: Mon, 14 January 2013, 05:02:31 »
Wow, thanks! It's good to see how it looks and positions under the fingers. :)

Das Model S Ultimate

Offline wasabah

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1178 on: Mon, 14 January 2013, 07:07:44 »
Big thanks from me too!! Really puts some perspective as to how big the keyboard is. :)
Now I'm worried though that the hand rest might be too small for my long hands... :S
ErgoDox Classic | Logitech G400 | Logitech Marble | Logitech M570 | Logitech M235 | Logitech M305

Offline wasabah

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1179 on: Mon, 14 January 2013, 07:32:46 »
Apparently Massdrop just launched a new site layout. No problem with that, but the editing system isn't online yet.. worst timing ever! -.-
ErgoDox Classic | Logitech G400 | Logitech Marble | Logitech M570 | Logitech M235 | Logitech M305

Offline L!athus

  • Posts: 13
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1180 on: Mon, 14 January 2013, 07:45:49 »
I have been contemplating whether having clear translucent keycaps would complement or be an overkill towards lister's clear acrylic case. Thx to ic07, I have a much clearer pic of it.  :)

Offline haskellelephant

  • Posts: 35
  • Location: Norway
  • haskell is everywhere! What are we going to do?
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1181 on: Mon, 14 January 2013, 08:28:35 »
How many of each type of keycap does the keyboard require? Is it  59 1x1, 12 x 1.5, and 4 numpad enter keys ? I need an excuse to buy more caps!

Offline L!athus

  • Posts: 13
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1182 on: Mon, 14 January 2013, 09:55:10 »
60 1x1, 12 1x1.5 and 4 1x2. The profile of num "+" would be more suited for the thumb keys unless you plan on inverting the orientation of the num enter key for comfort on your thumb.

Offline bisl

  • Posts: 212
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1183 on: Mon, 14 January 2013, 11:13:38 »
Just checking--ErgoDox won't support LEDs for backlighting, will it? As in the only switches that support the extra pins needed for the LEDs themselves are the three keys along the inner edge by the index finger? I'm just going by what's visible on photos of the PCBs.

Offline wiredPANDA

  • Posts: 348
  • Location: Louisiana
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1184 on: Mon, 14 January 2013, 11:16:10 »
I don't believe it does, bisl.
| HHKB Pro 2 | Leopold FC660C
| Poker.PANDAclears | ErgoDox (62g Black)

Offline litster

  • Posts: 2880
  • rare caps?! THAT'S A SMILIN
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1185 on: Mon, 14 January 2013, 12:02:54 »
no LED backlight support unless you want to hack it in yourself.

Offline bisl

  • Posts: 212
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1186 on: Mon, 14 January 2013, 13:02:47 »
no LED backlight support unless you want to hack it in yourself.

No sir, I don't! I'm quite prepared to take what's given to me in this case; I'm just too amateur to know whether it's simply BYO-LED without having to ask :)

Offline AloisiusFauxly

  • Posts: 32
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1187 on: Mon, 14 January 2013, 14:23:12 »
X-post from DT:

Just got a reply from Will @ MD when I asked about just a case or just the PCBs:

Quote from: Massdrop
Let me know exactly want then checkout as you would normally. Once you checkout and tell me, I can put a note on that transaction saying what you want and you'll be charged the right amount. The case is $80 by itself and the PCB is $44.

Offline Dreadwyrm

  • Posts: 69
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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1188 on: Mon, 14 January 2013, 16:45:20 »
I assume the board will take "normal" sized keycaps, but will the possible future GB's feature slightly angled rows? It would be logical to assume, that ergonomically speaking the keycaps should be looking more towards the middle, I don't know whether this is common practice here. My Das Ultimate has this feature, and it's really comfortable to type on. (please don't be harsh, I really don't know if all keyboards are like this or not)

Just an example pic:
« Last Edit: Mon, 14 January 2013, 16:48:52 by Dreadwyrm »

Das Model S Ultimate

Offline bisl

  • Posts: 212
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1189 on: Mon, 14 January 2013, 17:46:18 »
I assume the board will take "normal" sized keycaps, but will the possible future GB's feature slightly angled rows? It would be logical to assume, that ergonomically speaking the keycaps should be looking more towards the middle, I don't know whether this is common practice here. My Das Ultimate has this feature, and it's really comfortable to type on. (please don't be harsh, I really don't know if all keyboards are like this or not)

I'm pretty sure that you can use any keycaps made for Cherry MX Stems, which include all the types in your photo. There are plans to start up another Massdrop buy for keycaps, and these will come from Signature Plastics, almost certainly the DCS family, which have the characteristics you're talking about.

For reference:

Offline bpiphany

  • Posts: 1033
  • Location: Stockholm, Sweden
  • bpiph is a special type of crazy. //mkawa
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1190 on: Mon, 14 January 2013, 21:25:23 »
The only quirk is to find keys that will look good for the 1.50 high ones. DSA is the only family where that is a complete non-issue.

Offline AloisiusFauxly

  • Posts: 32
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1191 on: Mon, 14 January 2013, 23:11:42 »
Another benefit to the non-sculpted keys is with legends, one set covers multiple layouts.

I thought it would be weird with the DSAs, but I'm quite enjoying them.

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2247
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1192 on: Tue, 15 January 2013, 00:17:17 »
ic07 or anyone, has the option to reverse the direction of the diodes on the PCB been verified, to allow switches with built-in diodes to be used?
From the pictures it looks like these switches will be ok for the right hand side, but their diodes will be the wrong way around on the left hand side.
(when you look at these switches opened up, with the diode on the bottom as you look at it, the cathode arrow is pointing to the right).

Do I understand correctly that TEENSY__DRIVE__xxx only applies to the right PCB and MCP23018__DRIVE__xxx to the left PCB
and therefore that I need to set MCP23018__DRIVE_ROWS 1 / MCP23018__DRIVE_COLUMNS  0
but leave the other setting to its default (TEENSY__DRIVE_ROWS       0 / TEENSY__DRIVE_COLUMNS    1) in order to use these switches?

I noticed in the code comments (ergodox/options.h) that you don't have a switch to test, but you can actually simulate it by soldering a diode the other way around on the left PCB :-)

Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1193 on: Tue, 15 January 2013, 02:09:21 »
You're quite correct about the settings.

And... *sigh* I really should test... lol - I suppose I should have a while ago, but I didn't think of it, and it would be rather difficult at the moment.  Hopefully I don't have to eat my words, but if you look at the code (in src/keyboard/ergodox/controller/*.c) you'll notice that everything those four macros effects is fairly short, and very symmetrical.  I'd be really surprised if setting diode direction one way worked and setting it the other way didn't, for either hand.

That said, if changing that setting does break something (and you're sure you have the board together right - please be sure) then feel free to let me know in as many simultaneous ways as you wish, and I shall fix it ASAP.

Of course, there's a chance that another prototype tester has tried, and I just don't know about it.  If anyone has, please let us know :) .

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2247
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1194 on: Tue, 15 January 2013, 02:34:37 »
Well, if nobody has tried it, I guess I will, when I buy the kit that is... I'm the one who suggested to have the PCB support switches with built-in diodes :-)
Are the LED's affected by the diode setting in any way? Or would I always keep their cathodes going into the square solder point ?
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1195 on: Tue, 15 January 2013, 02:57:31 »
:)

The LEDs are not effected by that setting at all. In fact, flipping them wouldn't require any change to the firmware - it would be a (small) hardware mod.

Offline mikelanding

  • Posts: 84
  • Location: Thailand
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1196 on: Tue, 15 January 2013, 03:04:36 »
Look at the original concept photo from dox. It seem like they keycaps are DSA?

HHKB Type-S | Kinesis Advantage | Maltron 3D 2Hand | Ergodox (62g ErgoClear)

Offline AloisiusFauxly

  • Posts: 32
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1197 on: Tue, 15 January 2013, 04:00:37 »
IIRC, dox said that he went with the spherical caps just for the render. However, I've been typing on the DSA cap set for 4 weeks and it's been just fine.

Pictures of my Ergodox.

Offline TheProfosist

  • Posts: 3671
  • Location: Wisconsin, USA
  • Custom Layouts Only!
Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1198 on: Tue, 15 January 2013, 04:05:19 »
I will be starting a GB for assembling ErgoDox's later today so if you interested keep you eyes posted prices will be similar to my phantom GB.

Offline Glod

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Re: [Interest Check] ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #1199 on: Tue, 15 January 2013, 04:28:10 »
I will be starting a GB for assembling ErgoDox's later today so if you interested keep you eyes posted prices will be similar to my phantom GB.

you sure like to keep yourself busy don't ya?