Author Topic: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.  (Read 871356 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ksweber

  • Posts: 21
  • Location: Germany
    • AdNW
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #350 on: Sat, 28 January 2012, 14:17:56 »
Hi! I am also interested in getting one of this special designed keyboards.

My preference would be:
 * assembled
 * natural machined aluminum color with blanc white keys
 * brown Cherry

One question left to me:
In many ergonomic guides a negative slope of the keyboard is propose to minimize wrist bending. Negative slope--meaning that the keyboard angles downward so that the side closest to your body is higher than the side away from your body. The side picture in the first post shows a positive slope.

Please add me to the list.

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2245
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #351 on: Sat, 28 January 2012, 14:34:57 »
Quote from: ksweber;501686
In many ergonomic guides a negative slope of the keyboard is propose to minimize wrist bending. Negative slope--meaning that the keyboard angles downward so that the side closest to your body is higher than the side away from your body. The side picture in the first post shows a positive slope.

I agree, the keyboard should lay flat and have a low height as possible, and it would be up to the user to attach legs/supports and raise/tilt it any way they wish.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6282
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #352 on: Sat, 28 January 2012, 15:52:44 »
Quote from: bbbbqq;501340
Hey dox, can you tell me the measurement of the staggering ? ie: how much farther "north" is the W row is than the Q row, E row, etc
I can't speak for Dox, but I imagine it'd be like other matrix boards: where the spacing left/right is the same as up/down. If this is the case, then it'd be 0.75 inches between keys, and would work with any 1x cherry mx compatible keycap (see, if it's less than that, the keycaps would hit eachother, and if it's more, you'd have to move your fingers a lot more)

Offline oneproduct

  • Posts: 857
  • Location: Montreal, Canada
  • @Ubisoft
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #353 on: Sat, 28 January 2012, 21:10:11 »
He doesn't mean the space between keys in adjacent rows or within a given column, he means how it isn't a perfect grid and each column has a different y-offset to fit a hand, i.e. middle finger longer. :)
Layout: Colemak
Fastest typing speed: 131 WPM on typeracer, 136 WPM on 10fastfingers.
Daily driver: Filco Tenkeyless MX Brown with ergonomically weighted, lubed springs.
Ergo keyboards: Truly Ergonomic, Kinesis Advantage, Ergodox

Offline Architect

  • Posts: 254
  • TECK Lover
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #354 on: Sun, 29 January 2012, 08:59:36 »
Remove my name from the list, thanks. Good luck with it, should be a great keyboard.
TECK 209 Blank Keys; Leopold Number Pad; X-Keys Professional; X-Keys 84.

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6282
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #355 on: Sun, 29 January 2012, 12:27:16 »
I will, but I don't think you should let people in the ergo subforum get the better of you, emotionally. I don't see how removing your interest from here will help anyone/anything.

Offline jedcred

  • Posts: 13
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #356 on: Tue, 31 January 2012, 12:09:45 »
I'm interested in this design (or at least, my shoulders are).  I don't have a problem with assembly.
Keyboards:
Filco tenkeyless with Cherry Blues
IBM Model M \'93
Razer Blackwidow x 2 (because parts)
Goldtouch Adjustable
Logitech MX 5500

Offline gilgam

  • Posts: 298
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #357 on: Tue, 31 January 2012, 16:56:57 »
hello

i want one of this, but what about switches and diodes ?
The group buy for the Phantom keyboard and switches is ending and i think i'll order some as the prices are nice.
Realforce 105 FR, HHKB Pro 2 black, 1 Raptor K1 Black Cherry and 1 Raptor K1 Red Cherry , Compag MX 11800  tBrown Cherry, G80-3000 Clear Cherry , G80-1000 Blue Cherry / Ghetto red, Lexmark 1992 SSK Buckling spring, Unicomp 2011 Customizer 102 Buckling spring
and a few rubber dome/scissors keyboards from Apple/Logitech

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2245
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #358 on: Tue, 31 January 2012, 17:47:01 »
wasdkeyboards.com sells switches now, I bought and used some already.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Dox

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 298
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #359 on: Tue, 31 January 2012, 17:50:08 »
Quote from: gilgam;504655
hello

i want one of this, but what about switches and diodes ?
The group buy for the Phantom keyboard and switches is ending and i think i'll order some as the prices are nice.

Switched and diodes are the same as the Phantom ones. Standard cherry switches and 1n4148 diodes.
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2245
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #360 on: Tue, 31 January 2012, 17:56:56 »
Ah good to know about the diodes. Here, an amazon seller sells them for 1 cent each, so you can get 100 for $1 + $4.49 shipping = $5.49
http://www.amazon.com/Parts-Express-1N4148-Logic-Diode/dp/B0002KRC7C
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Dox

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 298
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #361 on: Tue, 31 January 2012, 18:02:44 »
I ordered over 1000 of them for my doxKB. The cost was something around 0.0015$ each.
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2245
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #362 on: Tue, 31 January 2012, 18:08:16 »
It would help if you mentioned where we can get them from at that price!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Dox

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 298
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #363 on: Tue, 31 January 2012, 18:27:48 »
Oops I put one extra "0" in there, it was 0.015$ each, your amazon link is better!
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline Parak

  • Posts: 532
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #364 on: Tue, 31 January 2012, 19:15:27 »
Quote from: sordna;504699
Ah good to know about the diodes. Here, an amazon seller sells them for 1 cent each, so you can get 100 for $1 + $4.49 shipping = $5.49
http://www.amazon.com/Parts-Express-1N4148-Logic-Diode/dp/B0002KRC7C

lolwut @ Technical Details :D

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6282
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #365 on: Tue, 31 January 2012, 23:07:25 »
Quote from: Parak;504756
lolwut @ Technical Details :D
Quote
Precision machined 6 cut RCA connector with split center pin
Available in versions to fit three different ranges of TV sizes
It IS parts express (sell expensive components for audio). I think they just accidentally pasted it in there.

Jedcred and gilgam, I've added you interest.

Offline sicyo

  • Posts: 6
  • Location: Atlanta, GA
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #366 on: Wed, 01 February 2012, 07:51:30 »
Where's this interest list being kept? I just want to make sure I'm on it.

Thanks

Offline heuristicist

  • Posts: 55
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #367 on: Wed, 01 February 2012, 13:29:54 »
Quote from: sicyo;505161
Where's this interest list being kept? I just want to make sure I'm on it.

Thanks

See the second post of this thread.

Offline sicyo

  • Posts: 6
  • Location: Atlanta, GA
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #368 on: Wed, 01 February 2012, 14:30:40 »
Hah, thanks. Can't believe I missed that.

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6282
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #369 on: Wed, 01 February 2012, 18:57:59 »
Quote from: sicyo;505480
Hah, thanks. Can't believe I missed that.
I had you down as #49

The reason I'm keeping it in post #2 is that I coincidentally was the first to post after DOX, and when I compiled the interest, I utilized the prime post real-estate.

Offline minnus

  • Posts: 23
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #370 on: Tue, 07 February 2012, 20:40:58 »
It seems that the forum has rolled back a bit and my interest post was lost. I am still interested. Is there any way for people with interest to contribute in any way?

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6282
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #371 on: Wed, 08 February 2012, 00:05:34 »
Quote from: minnus;508810
It seems that the forum has rolled back a bit and my interest post was lost. I am still interested. Is there any way for people with interest to contribute in any way?
I have you and Salash down on the list. I'll update the second post. good thing I keep a backup on my laptop :p

I dunno: I'm keeping track of interest, to help out with that detail. I know we're still looking for a decent connector between the halves (the bulky 3m Ribbon cable one I found looks good, but I'm thinking ribbon cables aren't ideal. HDMI has been suggested, but I really hate appropriating it to this use (It's "wrong", surface mount, dubious strain relief available, etc)), and other ideas have been proposed) If someone wants to browse mouser/digikey for better exterior connectors that are low profile enough to work, that'd help. Also, I think scouting around for a shop that'll be able to cut the casings would be useful. Hmm, maybe we should  publish a "roadmap" of all the work that's been done (design, etc) and that needs to be done (PCB, fab, etc), and people can search, and propose ideas.

That said, The order would be like 100+ sets of those 11 or so "plates" that screw together, which I think is a fairly substantial order.

Offline mtl

  • Posts: 180
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #372 on: Wed, 08 February 2012, 07:27:05 »
Quote from: dorkvader;508966
I know we're still looking for a decent connector between the halves (the bulky 3m Ribbon cable one I found looks good, but I'm thinking ribbon cables aren't ideal. HDMI has been suggested, but I really hate appropriating it to this use (It's "wrong", surface mount, dubious strain relief available, etc)), and other ideas have been proposed)
You could make each half a stand-alone keyboard. One half could also contain a USB hub for linking up the pair, so you only need one USB cable going to the host (PC, etc.)
MX13 SpaceSaver | Phantom | Tactoblack Filco -10 | Realforce 103U-UW | Variable Clicky Deck 82 | Deck Legend

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6282
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #373 on: Wed, 08 February 2012, 07:49:52 »
Quote from: mtl;509139
You could make each half a stand-alone keyboard. One half could also contain a USB hub for linking up the pair, so you only need one USB cable going to the host (PC, etc.)


The possibility of digital communication has been discussed. I think it's the best idea if anyone can find/write an implementation for it (Which is the hard part: that level of complexity adds a lot). USB would be a waste in this instance (It's not really means for inter-chip communications) maybe I2s would be better.

Offline alaricljs

  • I be WOT'ing all day...
  • ** Moderator Emeritus
  • Posts: 3715
  • Location: NE US
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #374 on: Wed, 08 February 2012, 08:53:31 »
If you're going with a dual controller design you might be able to cram PS/2 conversion into both halves and use PS/2 between the halves and then USB to the PC.  Halving conversion in both halves means being able to run the interconnect in either direction and USB from either side.  Might need a dip switch or some other method to tell each side its role.

This might even let you mirror image the PCB.
Filco w/ Imsto thick PBT
Ducky 1087XM PCB+Plate, w/ Matias "Quiet Click" spring-swapped w/ XM Greens

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6282
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #375 on: Wed, 08 February 2012, 20:25:48 »
Quote from: alaricljs;509164
This might even let you mirror image the PCB.
No: there are some practical reasons we can't mirror it: first off the switches wouldn't fit. (they are asymmetrical).

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2245
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #376 on: Wed, 08 February 2012, 20:28:04 »
You can still mirror it if you provision an extra solderable hole for each switch, which shouldn't increase the cost at all.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline litster

  • Posts: 2859
  • rare caps?! THAT'S A SMILIN
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #377 on: Wed, 08 February 2012, 20:29:14 »
Quote from: sordna;509687
You can still mirror it if you provision an extra solderable hole for each switch, which shouldn't increase the cost at all.

That's what PrinsValium did to Phantom's PCB to support so many different layouts with just one PCB.

Offline sicyo

  • Posts: 6
  • Location: Atlanta, GA
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #378 on: Thu, 09 February 2012, 07:51:31 »
I know a machine shop that might be able to do it, let me check with them. They also could handle tumbling and can out-source anodizing and nickel plating (one of the main reasons I'm interested)

Also, as far as the connector we should pick something that is easily available and doesn't cause a hassle to be replaced. Couldn't a nice braided USB cable suffice?

UPDATE:
Got in touch with them and they can give us a quote if we provide a standard blue print showing dimensions and tolerances. CAD works too.
« Last Edit: Thu, 09 February 2012, 14:50:36 by sicyo »

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6282
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #379 on: Thu, 09 February 2012, 18:04:06 »
Quote from: sicyo;510070
Also, as far as the connector we should pick something that is easily available and doesn't cause a hassle to be replaced. Couldn't a nice braided USB cable suffice?

A USB cable only provides 4 contacts, we need something like 14-20. Now, this would work out well if we had some chip on the "slave" 'board convert the keypress to something digital, but the current idea is to just transfer the matrix over the cable.

Edit: If anyone wants to implement this idea, I think a digital connection between boards is the best idea, but implementing it would be hard.

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2245
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #380 on: Thu, 09 February 2012, 18:06:36 »
My vote still goes for HDMI, due to enough conductors, small size, and very cheap & easy to find cables of varying lengths.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline ironman31

  • Posts: 834
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #381 on: Thu, 09 February 2012, 21:15:05 »
Quote from: sordna;510524
My vote still goes for HDMI, due to enough conductors, small size, and very cheap & easy to find cables of varying lengths.

My only concern about HDMI is the flexibility of the cable. I purchased one of the thinner ones from monoprice and they still feel as if they would be too stiff to use as a connector. I have had many hdmi ports on various devices wear out due to stiff cables putting too much strain on them.
Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/ATNoppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)



Pointing Devices:
Logitech G500, Evoluent VerticalMouse 3, Logitech G5, CST 2545W, Microsoft IntelliMouse Trackball, Logitech M570, Logitech MX revolution


Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6282
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #382 on: Thu, 09 February 2012, 23:12:13 »
I'm concerned about the surface mount (much less mechanically sound compared with through-hole) and the apparent lack of decent panel mount options for them. Not to mention the fact that it's the wrong protocol for the cable. We'd also (theoretically speaking ) owe the HDMI company money for each port on our device.

Offline alaricljs

  • I be WOT'ing all day...
  • ** Moderator Emeritus
  • Posts: 3715
  • Location: NE US
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #383 on: Fri, 10 February 2012, 08:13:11 »
You'd only owe them a licensing fee if you implemented HDMI on the port.  I'm wondering if some sadist wants to try implementing 1 half with shift registers and using serial over a small cable using RJ45s or the like.
Filco w/ Imsto thick PBT
Ducky 1087XM PCB+Plate, w/ Matias "Quiet Click" spring-swapped w/ XM Greens

Offline sicyo

  • Posts: 6
  • Location: Atlanta, GA
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #384 on: Fri, 10 February 2012, 08:58:28 »
Dorkvader - you noted scouting around for a shop. I guess you don't have access to a CAD or exact dimensions/tolerances? Or will I have to wait to hear from Dox?

Offline Parak

  • Posts: 532
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #385 on: Fri, 10 February 2012, 09:19:10 »
Quote from: dorkvader;510769
I'm concerned about the surface mount (much less mechanically sound compared with through-hole) and the apparent lack of decent panel mount options for them.

FWIW, a TH and panel mount connector is available here. The panel mount part of it is definitely too high, though.

Quote from: alaricljs;510938
You'd only owe them a licensing fee if you implemented HDMI on the port.  I'm wondering if some sadist wants to try implementing 1 half with shift registers and using serial over a small cable using RJ45s or the like.

SPI (4 wires) or I2C (2 wires) would only need an RJ11, but I think that even RJ11 is too high to fit. And yeah, implementing that type of protocol would be quite a substantial amount of work :(

Offline alaricljs

  • I be WOT'ing all day...
  • ** Moderator Emeritus
  • Posts: 3715
  • Location: NE US
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #386 on: Fri, 10 February 2012, 09:22:09 »
Needs more than just 2 or 4 wires unless you want to have some form of MCU on the slave side.  Clock, power, whatever else...  hell, need power especially if you have an MCU.
Filco w/ Imsto thick PBT
Ducky 1087XM PCB+Plate, w/ Matias "Quiet Click" spring-swapped w/ XM Greens

Offline kps

  • Posts: 410
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #387 on: Fri, 10 February 2012, 09:34:01 »
Quote from: Parak;510957
SPI (4 wires) or I2C (2 wires) would only need an RJ11, but I think that even RJ11 is too high to fit. And yeah, implementing that type of protocol would be quite a substantial amount of work :(

SPI is pretty much trivial if you are using something like a USB AVR (e.g. Teensy) as the main controller. An I/O expander like a 23S17 would do everything the slave side needs.
« Last Edit: Fri, 10 February 2012, 09:41:04 by kps »

Offline Parak

  • Posts: 532
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #388 on: Fri, 10 February 2012, 10:08:35 »
Heh, how about VHDCI? Complete overkill in terms of pins, rather expensive, but readily available and low profile.

Or TDP Triad. Header + Cable. The downside is that the header is SMD.

Offline kps

  • Posts: 410
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #389 on: Fri, 10 February 2012, 11:49:13 »
Or use an IC I/O expander (e.g. 23017) to get down to 4 conductors, and use 2.5mm audio connectors. Cheap, compact, and through-hole.

Offline Parak

  • Posts: 532
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #390 on: Fri, 10 February 2012, 12:10:21 »
Quote from: kps;511086
Or use an IC I/O expander (e.g. 23017) to get down to 4 conductors, and use 2.5mm audio connectors. Cheap, compact, and through-hole.

Hmm, that's a nice approach. SDA, SCL, Power, and Ground over the 4 conductors?

Would still need a willing sap^H^H^H volunteer to create some sample code, and breadboard test it with a small matrix, I suppose.

Offline warzer0

  • Posts: 7
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #391 on: Fri, 10 February 2012, 22:23:01 »
Got any idea of a ballpack price for this thing?

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6282
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #392 on: Sat, 11 February 2012, 10:48:54 »
Quote from: warzer0;511469
Got any idea of a ballpack price for this thing?

I added it up once, based on Dox's quotes for 5 cases, and it was under $400 (something like $367) not counting keycaps or teensy.

If we can get to 50 orders (up from 5), there's a chance the cases would be much cheaper, and the PCB's will probably be less than the $50/hand I estimated. Shopping around may also prove useful.

Offline ekw808

  • ** Moderator Emeritus
  • Posts: 1102
  • Location: The 3C Treehouse
  • Ekw
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #393 on: Tue, 14 February 2012, 10:23:07 »
The most I could possibly pay for this board would be 200 O_O even though it looks pretty amazing
[One Keyboard at a time]

My Heatware Please comment, and I will do the same =D 

Offline REVENGE

  • Posts: 568
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #394 on: Wed, 15 February 2012, 00:58:38 »
Quote from: ekw808;514166
The most I could possibly pay for this board would be 200 O_O even though it looks pretty amazing
Assembled? I imaging that's doable at the current rate for self-assembly, labor would probably add $50 - $100.
◕ ‿ ◕

Offline drojf

  • Posts: 3
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #395 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 01:22:35 »
You might find this diy keyboard build log relevant: The Humble Hacker Keyboard

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2245
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #396 on: Tue, 21 February 2012, 14:35:02 »
I just saw the KeyPoard which looks really awesome, complete with phantom cut-outs on the switch mounting holes so that mounted switches can be opened up for servicing. I think we should add those cut-outs to ErgoDox as well.

Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #397 on: Wed, 22 February 2012, 20:43:56 »
@dorkvader/dox: If the price can stay below $400 for *everything* (except assembly), I'm definitely interested.  If it can stay below $300, I'd like one.  If below $150-200, I think I might want two.. lol, or at least an extra case+PCB.  Assuming it can get done in the next few months so I can get it together and get used to it before school, and of course that no future design decisions make it not work for me (which I don't expect to be the case).  Created an account just so I could track this thread :) .

A few of the things that matter to me:
- The thumbs having a good amount of keys within easy reach (as in the current kinesis looking thumb group)
- The cord between the two being cheap, easy to get, and *small* (as is being discussed).  I've never tried, but it seems to me that anything thicker / less flexible than a typical usb cord would be a pain when the two halves of the keyboard were close together on a desk.  And aesthetically, a ribbon cable connector or even an ethernet connector (or a pair of them), would ruin it IMO.  2x2.5mm audio connectors (like kps suggested) would be pretty cool, if there's nothing better in a single similarly sized and shaped cable.

A few of the things that don't matter to me:
- Assembly service.  If it's going to be done by another member, and/or going to cost more than maybe $20, I may as well take the opportunity to learn :)
- Layout.  I'm planning to change it all anyway.
- Whether the parts all come in the same box, or whether we have to get them from different places.  As long as they're not way too hard to find/buy, and the total price can stay below my above limits.

Random preferences (if they make a difference here):
- I'm leaning towards cherry browns, after a bunch of reading.  I haven't found a place to try them, but they sound like what I want.
- Colored or clear keycaps.  I know these would be extra... but if they turn out not to be too much more, it'd be really cool.
- O-rings (the soft ones), probably.  I assume these would be extra too.
- For layout, I'll probably do something close to arensito, at least with the AltGr symbol layer.

Other thoughts:
- I'd prefer it not to be red.  Lol, though I guess I'd live if it were.
- Once it gets closer to being done, if I'm not the only one here who's a noob at all things hardware, maybe someone could post links to save us searching around for all the parts we'll have to get ourselves, how to put it together (or at least common pitfalls), how to reprogram/reflash the firmware for remapping (and other things?), and all that?  I understand it's DIY so I shan't complain, but it'd save me a bit of tangential effort.

Offline dorkvader

  • Posts: 6282
  • Location: Boston area
  • all about the "hack" in "geekhack"
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #398 on: Wed, 22 February 2012, 22:58:38 »
Quote from: ic07;522476
@dorkvader/dox: If the price can stay below $400 for *everything* (except assembly), I'm definitely interested.  If it can stay below $300, I'd like one.  If below $150-200, I think I might want two.. lol, or at least an extra case+PCB.  Assuming it can get done in the next few months so I can get it together and get used to it before school, and of course that no future design decisions make it not work for me (which I don't expect to be the case).  Created an account just so I could track this thread :) .

A few of the things that matter to me:
- The thumbs having a good amount of keys within easy reach (as in the current kinesis looking thumb group)
- The cord between the two being cheap, easy to get, and *small* (as is being discussed).  I've never tried, but it seems to me that anything thicker / less flexible than a typical usb cord would be a pain when the two halves of the keyboard were close together on a desk.  And aesthetically, a ribbon cable connector or even an ethernet connector (or a pair of them), would ruin it IMO.  2x2.5mm audio connectors (like kps suggested) would be pretty cool, if there's nothing better in a single similarly sized and shaped cable.

A few of the things that don't matter to me:
- Assembly service.  If it's going to be done by another member, and/or going to cost more than maybe $20, I may as well take the opportunity to learn :)
- Layout.  I'm planning to change it all anyway.
- Whether the parts all come in the same box, or whether we have to get them from different places.  As long as they're not way too hard to find/buy, and the total price can stay below my above limits.

Random preferences (if they make a difference here):
- I'm leaning towards cherry browns, after a bunch of reading.  I haven't found a place to try them, but they sound like what I want.
- Colored or clear keycaps.  I know these would be extra... but if they turn out not to be too much more, it'd be really cool.
- O-rings (the soft ones), probably.  I assume these would be extra too.
- For layout, I'll probably do something close to arensito, at least with the AltGr symbol layer.

Other thoughts:
- I'd prefer it not to be red.  Lol, though I guess I'd live if it were.
- Once it gets closer to being done, if I'm not the only one here who's a noob at all things hardware, maybe someone could post links to save us searching around for all the parts we'll have to get ourselves, how to put it together (or at least common pitfalls), how to reprogram/reflash the firmware for remapping (and other things?), and all that?  I understand it's DIY so I shan't complain, but it'd save me a bit of tangential effort.

Wow, welcome to Geekhack, that's a heck of a first post: Lots of good info here.

Firstly, I don't want to take any credit away from Dox. He's the designer. I'm just keeping track of interest, and answering easy questions.

Good point on the cable. Also note that very frequently, thinner cables will be able to suffer more bends before breaking: They have a longer service life in that respect, but are more fragile to tensile strain. I've seem some unwieldy USB cables before: One has full shielding with an aluminium wrap (I think it's from a LaCiE HDD)! Having TRRS connectors to carry power, Transmit signal, received signals, and ground would work, but at that point, we could totally use the ubiquitous USB connector. The hardest part is implementing a matrix to I2C or something, then having it decoded by a master teensy. Also note that it wolud have to be pretty high speed, or we wouldn't get NKRO on the slave half due to bandwidth limitations. At this point, the design of the cables also plays a large part, as crosstalk, and inductance degrade the highspeed signal. We would almost be better off at that point to go with a SMA connector (like for routers) or suchlike.

Hah, good point on the layout. One of the best features is the programmability of this: you can't just pick an arbitrary layout on just any keyboard, but with the Dox (or anything Teensy) you can.

Parts: I imagine there'll be a good BOM made up, where We'll distribute the plate/case and PCB, then have a link to where you can buy the rest. You could conceivably have it ordered in a few minutes, Still, if we're distributing the plates/case already, it might be a better idea to distribute the other components at the same time, for possible savings in bulk.

Keycaps: I never imagined keycaps to come with the base kit. Many GH'ers have extra sets, and they're pretty easy to get (WASDkeyboards, anyone?) elsewhere. I also really want clear keycaps to go over my cherry greens in the mail.

As far as colour, we might be able to work something out with the Machine shop to get it anodized different colours. Ofcourse it would be pretty easy to paint it yourself.

Finally: You should look at the phantom guide on the DT WIKI. This is almost the same project (only with the different physical aspect, integrated case, and possible complication of cables/connectors) and there's a lot of good info there. I imagine when it comes time, We'll update it with some ergoDOX specifics. I've always wanted to write up a proper manual in LaTeX for download/distribution.
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Phantom_Instruction

Anyway, I hope this helps. As always, it's up to DOX right now (as designer and de facto lead) but good ideas are always appreciated. It's good to get the problems sorted out before production.

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 190
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #399 on: Thu, 23 February 2012, 15:29:43 »
Thanks :)

Quote from: dorkvader;522656
Parts: I imagine there'll be a good BOM made up, where We'll distribute the plate/case and PCB, then have a link to where you can buy the rest. You could conceivably have it ordered in a few minutes, Still, if we're distributing the plates/case already, it might be a better idea to distribute the other components at the same time, for possible savings in bulk.


Sounds good to me.  Seems like this isn't the first time you guys have done this :)

Quote from: dorkvader;522656
Keycaps: I never imagined keycaps to come with the base kit. Many GH'ers have extra sets, and they're pretty easy to get (WASDkeyboards, anyone?) elsewhere. I also really want clear keycaps to go over my cherry greens in the mail.


Okay.  I do have to include keycaps in my price limit though, since I don't have any yet.. :/ .  I did look around on WASD yesterday.  I'll have to shop around some more later.

Quote from: dorkvader;522656
As far as colour, we might be able to work something out with the Machine shop to get it anodized different colours. Ofcourse it would be pretty easy to paint it yourself.


It would be awesome if the machine shop could do different colors, or just natural colored (like thirdkind wants).  I looked up how to paint over anodized aluminum today, and it doesn't look fun (to me).  But again, it won't kill my interest, even though it's aesthetically important to me.

Quote from: dorkvader;522656
Finally: You should look at the phantom guide on the DT WIKI. This is almost the same project (only with the different physical aspect, integrated case, and possible complication of cables/connectors) and there's a lot of good info there. I imagine when it comes time, We'll update it with some ergoDOX specifics. I've always wanted to write up a proper manual in LaTeX for download/distribution.
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Phantom_Instruction


Thanks!  I've only glanced at it for now, but I'll read it more thoroughly when the ergoDOX gets closer to shipping.