So why do people like winkeyless?

[oneproduct]

I'm using a winkeyless keyboard for the first time and I'm constantly annoyed by the absence of the windows key, both in windows and in linux. In windows 7 the windows key is great because you can press it and then just type in the search box and launch anything using your keyboard alone. Also you can launch things pinned to the start bar with win+# and have shortcuts to some basic things like win+R and win+P. In linux you can do the same win+# and you can basically remap it to do anything you want.

Without the windows button I have to keep using *gasp* my mouse! Are these winkeyless keyboards just for gamers who don't want to accidentally hit the windows key when they're playing? Even people not using windows must appreciate the usefulness of having another modifier key available.

[jdcarpe]

Because that's what the Koreans like. If you wanna be 1337, you have to seek the Korean custom keyboards. Hence all the winkeyless love.

[AKIMbO]

Because winkey is useless....ctrl + esc key is the win key on winkeyless boards. 

[WhiteFireDragon]

It's just korean mainstream, made popular by Cherry. Same with RGB modifiers, it gives that vintage-style look from older keyboards.

[jeroplane]

Also it means that original Cherry modifiers can be used instead of a Moogle Kit.

[oneproduct]

Because winkey is useless....ctrl + esc key is the win key on winkeyless boards. 

But you can't replace win+#, for example, with ctrl+esc+#, so it doesn't properly replace it.

I find it very hard to call it useless. There's at least a dozen shortcuts available to you using the windows key that you have to click around through a bunch of menus to get at otherwise. Also, you can always change it to do more. Having this empty space between Ctrl and Alt is just wasteful (on an SSK, though I know some don't have the empty space because of bigger mods + different bottom row arrangement).

Oh well, I guess it's just a form over function thing.

[jdcarpe]

It has more to do with being able to use Cherry 1.5 modifiers. I personally like those layouts (such as The Cheat, Phantom 150, etc.) that use a 1.5-1-1.5 layout, where there exists a winkey, but it's only a 1-unit key.

[oneproduct]

But you could always just use Cherry 1.25 mods, no? Or is it too hard to get double shot ones in center stem format?

[dirge]

1.25 mods are harder to get hold off.

[hashbaz]

I like the vintage look of 1.5 mods, especially when they are RGB'd.  Makes my keyboard stand out a little more.  The moogle-less Cherry set aspect is another plus, as is the lack of Windows branding.  I remap Caps Lock to Win when I need it.  Ironically I almost never use it on Windows (though I should learn the shortcuts), but it's a core part of a lot of tiling window managers under X.

[Hak Foo]

I think it was traditionally people would foul the windows key when trying to mash control or alt as part of games.

To me, the obvious answer was some sort of low-profile key for Windows, but nobody ever did this that I know of.

[daerid]

This isn't some "new" thing that people are just now discovering. Keyboards were winkeyless up until the mid/late 90's. Most vintage boards didn't have a Windows key or a context-menu (apps) key. Before the current Mechanical Keyboard "Renaissance" the majority of old mechanical keyboards were 101-key, so a lot of people got who love mech boards got into the 101 key layout.

Personally, I can't live without my windows and context keys (yes, I use the context menu key judiciously).

[SmallFry]

It has more to do with being able to use Cherry 1.5 modifiers. I personally like those layouts (such as The Cheat, Phantom 150, etc.) that use a 1.5-1-1.5 layout, where there exists a winkey, but it's only a 1-unit key.

Quite agree. Its how I'm building my Phantom.

[rootwyrm]

I dunno why you guys think 101 is the "old school" layout.
The Sun Type 4 has (going left to right, spacebar row) Caps, Alt, Meta, Space, Meta, Compose, AltGraph.
The IBM RS/6000 InfoWindow uses a 3270/5250 (F1-24, rule key, left deadkey, etcetera.)

Reason I don't like the Windows key is because it's just a bad design for fast typers who frequently use Ctrl or Alt modifiers. If you accidentally hit the Windows key midflight, yeah, bad things can and do happen. My preference is pretty much exactly as SteelSeries did on the 6GV2 and Thermaltake on the Meka G1; Fn/Layer Mod with no Windows key map on the left. Especially mapped to media controls or programmable layer. But that's just my preference.

[hashbaz]

Most of us don't have experience with old keyboards that have more than Ctrl and Alt.  Thus a lack of third or fourth mods is just as old-school as keyboards with Meta and friends.

[xsphat]

Because winkey is useless....ctrl + esc key is the win key on winkeyless boards. 

THANK YOU! I'm a recent convert from OSX to Win7 and I was wondering about that. The Model M moved off my desk partially for that.

But I would still miss Win+Tab ...

[rowdy]

What about Win-R?

Win-E?

Win-M?

[pitashen]

winkeyless is visually more pleasant IMO.

[rowdy]

Allows for a wider spacebar too.

I grew up with winkeyless (WKL?) keyboards, and now that I have become used to winkey keyboards seeing a WKL looks odd with the gap between Alt and Ctrl on each side.

[Hyde]

winkeyless is visually more pleasant IMO.

I also agree that it looks nicer somehow.  But I grew up with keyboards with window keys so I'm kind of used to it now, I don't particular mind it.

Though it is quicker to hit window key and type up the program you're looking for 

[precarious]

i absolutely love the look of winkeyless boards with the 7x space bar

i also absolutely could never use one because of the space bar positioning and the fact that i use the everliving piss out of the windows key and context menu key (high five to my other bro(s) in this thread)

win + d also if no one else mentioned that one ;0

[Sifo]

I remap windows to left control and control to capslock so I'm good on that... I never use menu key. But I don't own a winkeyless I have them both disabled anyway though

[0100010]

Grew up with winkeyless, and the boards I've used over the years that had them I just find get in my way.  WKL FTW!  YMMV.

[quadibloc2]

Well, I'm used to the original Model M. Having some old ones, I'd have to spend more money getting one with Windows keys from Unicomp.

More importantly, I'm not used to having to avoid the Windows keys when pressing Control or Alt, because I've been using computers before Windows 95 was a gleam in Bill Gates' eye. Hey, I've used computers since before Microsoft BASIC was a gleam in Bill Gates' eye.

But then, I hardly even use the Alt keys, let alone the Windows keys. If I need to do something other than type, I use the mouse.

[The_Beast]

I just like the look of it and I almost ever use the key anyways

[absyrd]

Clumsy people like winkeyless!!!11

[ShakeR]

With Windows 8 relying heavily on the Win Key, I would imagine this key will almost be required on PC compatible boards going forward.

[SmallFry]

Required, no. A PITA without, yes.

[firebt]

Personally, I like having the winkey, but on my Ducky I can flip a switch that turns off the Windows key for gaming, locating on the back of the board (discrete).  If you play HoN or Dota 2, you will probably use the Alt key for item use, for sure in HoN because that's how its default configured.  In this case, having a Winkey is detrimental because imagine ganking someone, returning back to base and trying to use your Tangos (Runes) and you click Winkey.  You have a couple of seconds before you get back and in that case you might have been killed by a hero chasing you or worse a creep wave that you weren't there to see.

Any games with Alt you need to either be able to disable Winkey or remove it completely.  I don't opt for removing it because I like to be able to control my whole computer using my keyboard, but it does have its perks to be able to disable.

[eon]

Although I find the look better without a win key, I like to have the key to make custom shortcuts. Also using gnome here, the win key is heavely used, so I don't think I could live without it...

[Clicky]

I just happen to like early Model M's...which don't have a winkey.  I remapped the winkey to caps lock though.  Since I never use the caps lock key it works perfectly.

[firebt]

I just happen to like early Model M's...which don't have a winkey.  I remapped the winkey to caps lock though.  Since I never use the caps lock key it works perfectly.

That's actually really smart.  Yeah, if you want, you can use AutoHotKey or the program that came with your keyboard to produce new short cuts or macros or anything you wish.  I think the winkeyless does look cool too. 

[vun]

I never got the winkeyless deal either apart from "all the expensive Korean boards don't have one, so you should think it's cool". I use the winkey a fair bit, it's very useful to have and I can see no gain in not having it, doesn't look all that good without it either. For those who tend to accidentally hit it; get a board with a lock, like the QFR or something, or just stop hitting it. I've never had a problem with accidentally hitting the winkey that I can remember in any game.
Or you could remove they keycaps so it looks like you're a really dedicated progamer and be super cool..

[rootwyrm]

I just happen to like early Model M's...which don't have a winkey.  I remapped the winkey to caps lock though.  Since I never use the caps lock key it works perfectly.

That's actually really smart.  Yeah, if you want, you can use AutoHotKey or the program that came with your keyboard to produce new short cuts or macros or anything you wish.  I think the winkeyless does look cool too. 

Holy crap, that -is- brilliant. (Sadly, I do use Caps Lock because of our SQL case conventions.)

[firebt]

I never got the winkeyless deal either apart from "all the expensive Korean boards don't have one, so you should think it's cool". I use the winkey a fair bit, it's very useful to have and I can see no gain in not having it, doesn't look all that good without it either. For those who tend to accidentally hit it; get a board with a lock, like the QFR or something, or just stop hitting it. I've never had a problem with accidentally hitting the winkey that I can remember in any game.
Or you could remove they keycaps so it looks like you're a really dedicated progamer and be super cool..

Lol don't get me wrong, I would choose a Winkeyed board anyday over a winkeyless, but I'm just saying Winkeyless doesn't look terrible or anything.  Mine can be disabled using a switch so I don't care either way but yeah. 

If you remove the Windows keycaps that would just look like you lost your keycap lol.

[vun]

I never got the winkeyless deal either apart from "all the expensive Korean boards don't have one, so you should think it's cool". I use the winkey a fair bit, it's very useful to have and I can see no gain in not having it, doesn't look all that good without it either. For those who tend to accidentally hit it; get a board with a lock, like the QFR or something, or just stop hitting it. I've never had a problem with accidentally hitting the winkey that I can remember in any game.
Or you could remove they keycaps so it looks like you're a really dedicated progamer and be super cool..

Lol don't get me wrong, I would choose a Winkeyed board anyday over a winkeyless, but I'm just saying Winkeyless doesn't look terrible or anything.  Mine can be disabled using a switch so I don't care either way but yeah. 

If you remove the Windows keycaps that would just look like you lost your keycap lol.

Oh, it doesn't look terrible, but it's not cool enough to make me drop the winkey.
And yeah, removing the caps doesn't look good, but I've seen a few people do that, and it is definitely an option because it works, it just looks a bit ghetto.

[tiarnachutch]

On my vintage keyboards, I just remap right alt to winkey. It is a huge help for those keystrokes.

[IvanIvanovich]

Which is why I came up with this

still have a win key, but not on the left where it annoys me as a gamer, and I get to use 1.5 mods from oldschool Cherry sets. Total win.

[Sifo]

..... genius. make pcb now pls

[IvanIvanovich]

komar already took care of it, it's the GH60

Oooooooooh post 3333!

[Sifo]

oh I don't like mini layouts I need my function keys for gaming

And milestone thread!

[hashbaz]

The Korean boards are winkeyless (and off-center-capslock'd) in order to utilize Cherry sets as-is.  It's not just some random thing that fanboy geekhackers are aping.

[Sifo]

Well it used to be that everyone wanted Moogle kits like about a year ago, and now that everyone has these Korean boards everyone wants tsangan kits.

[HybridCore]

I like the look because it just looks different. It's definitely nice to have the key at times so it's really fuctionality versus appearance. I need the key as I use it often and most of the keyboards I can afford have the key (no keyless. After all, the KMAC costs a lot).

[Hyde]

Well it used to be that everyone wanted Moogle kits like about a year ago, and now that everyone has these Korean boards everyone wants tsangan kits.

I've been hearing about moogle kit a lot but never figure out what it is.  This is my guess:

Moogle = 1.25 mod?
Tsangan = 1.5 mod?

Is this right?  Also why is it call Moogle and Tsangan?

[IvanIvanovich]

It's called that becuase that member made it happen first and it's really fun to use slang so no one outside the forum knows what the hell you're talking about.

[Sifo]

Yeah Moogle is so that people could use Cherry sets on their Filcos (so you'd need 1.25x mods, etc), and tsangan is so that you can use SP and other sets with vintage/Korean boards, (so you'd need 1.5x mods, etc).

Using inside slang ftw.

[tsangan]

caps lock <-> left ctrl swap
right alt = win
right ctrl = fn

best layout for myself, still have windows key in a winkeyless format in a regular winkey format I hit the windows key accidentally a lot so I much prefer it on the right side only

[firebt]

It's called that becuase that member made it happen first and it's really fun to use slang so no one outside the forum knows what the hell you're talking about.

hahah one of the perks of being active on forums

[Hyde]

hahah one of the perks of being active on forums

lol I guess I'm active but haven't been around for that long yet.  I started lurking during the "filco ping" and "omg filco linear-r limited edition" era, but joined after r00tw0rm or fall of ripster era lol.

That and I used to only read keyboard and mice forum, but ever since I start reading the group buy forum my wallet start to hate me.