Author Topic: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)  (Read 373505 times)

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Offline Defying

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #750 on: Thu, 21 November 2013, 21:59:02 »
Well I was able to rescue the packages from the post office today. They have been repackaged and will go out in the mail tomorrow.  :thumb:
awesome! :D thanks for all your effort into this, TFR.

Offline BunnyLake

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #751 on: Sun, 24 November 2013, 06:27:55 »
really hope i get mine soon

i cant wait
I'M IN THE PROCESS OF MOVING RIGHT NOW, WILL BE BACK AROUND SOON

Offline Defying

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #752 on: Mon, 25 November 2013, 16:27:55 »
:D

Thanks TFR, MOZ, regack, and others! <3
(also, I didn't buy the blue switches but they came with the ghpad?)

PCB pic:

Offline Defying

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #753 on: Mon, 25 November 2013, 18:31:04 »
So I was soldering on some of the components and I noticed this:

It seems baked onto the PCB... I've tried a lot of things to get it off (rubbing alcohol, cloth w/ water, flux, etc) and it's not coming off. I don't really care about the splatter, but it's covering R3 and I'm not sure if I should solder it on..

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #754 on: Mon, 25 November 2013, 18:39:53 »
So I was soldering on some of the components and I noticed this:
Show Image

It seems baked onto the PCB... I've tried a lot of things to get it off (rubbing alcohol, cloth w/ water, flux, etc) and it's not coming off. I don't really care about the splatter, but it's covering R3 and I'm not sure if I should solder it on..

Looks like some extra copper got baked into the PCB. Can you remove it with your soldering iron and some braid?
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Offline Defying

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #755 on: Mon, 25 November 2013, 18:44:45 »
So I was soldering on some of the components and I noticed this:
Show Image

It seems baked onto the PCB... I've tried a lot of things to get it off (rubbing alcohol, cloth w/ water, flux, etc) and it's not coming off. I don't really care about the splatter, but it's covering R3 and I'm not sure if I should solder it on..

Looks like some extra copper got baked into the PCB. Can you remove it with your soldering iron and some braid?
I'll try that here soon. :D

So far I've soldered on the microcontroller, USB port, C1 & C2. Tried soldering on the crystal but that was a fail.. might have to buy another crystal from digikey lol. I'm pretty sure I can do everything else, it's just the crystal that's difficult.

Offline regack

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #756 on: Mon, 25 November 2013, 18:50:35 »
So I was soldering on some of the components and I noticed this:
Show Image

It seems baked onto the PCB... I've tried a lot of things to get it off (rubbing alcohol, cloth w/ water, flux, etc) and it's not coming off. I don't really care about the splatter, but it's covering R3 and I'm not sure if I should solder it on..

Looks like some extra copper got baked into the PCB. Can you remove it with your soldering iron and some braid?
I'll try that here soon. :D

So far I've soldered on the microcontroller, USB port, C1 & C2. Tried soldering on the crystal but that was a fail.. might have to buy another crystal from digikey lol. I'm pretty sure I can do everything else, it's just the crystal that's difficult.

The diodes will be really annoying because they're too big for the pads.  I ended up getting one end on, then bridging to the other pad.  I have fixed the pads to match the SOD-123 appropriately in the next revision.

Also, if you didn't see it, the silkscreen is impossible to read in a couple of spots, so I marked them up in this post here
« Last Edit: Mon, 25 November 2013, 18:53:14 by regack »

Offline Defying

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #757 on: Mon, 25 November 2013, 19:20:50 »
So I was soldering on some of the components and I noticed this:
Show Image

It seems baked onto the PCB... I've tried a lot of things to get it off (rubbing alcohol, cloth w/ water, flux, etc) and it's not coming off. I don't really care about the splatter, but it's covering R3 and I'm not sure if I should solder it on..

Looks like some extra copper got baked into the PCB. Can you remove it with your soldering iron and some braid?
I'll try that here soon. :D

So far I've soldered on the microcontroller, USB port, C1 & C2. Tried soldering on the crystal but that was a fail.. might have to buy another crystal from digikey lol. I'm pretty sure I can do everything else, it's just the crystal that's difficult.

The diodes will be really annoying because they're too big for the pads.  I ended up getting one end on, then bridging to the other pad.  I have fixed the pads to match the SOD-123 appropriately in the next revision.

Also, if you didn't see it, the silkscreen is impossible to read in a couple of spots, so I marked them up in this post here
That sounds like fun. :D I think I managed to get a diode soldered up.. although I have no idea if it's even connected :\

Also, does anyone have any suggestions for soldering on the crystal without a hot air gun?

Offline regack

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #758 on: Mon, 25 November 2013, 20:20:20 »
Also, does anyone have any suggestions for soldering on the crystal without a hot air gun?

So I really really lightly tinned 2 of the pads on one side. On the other side they were a bit fuller.  On the full side I used a larger beveled tip to kind of get both the pads going at the same time, then blobbed it in there.  Once it was set on the one side, I dumped a lot of flux on the other side, then got the edge of each of the pads hot and let the solder kind of wick up in there.

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #759 on: Mon, 25 November 2013, 20:28:30 »
Also, does anyone have any suggestions for soldering on the crystal without a hot air gun?

Flux is your friend.

Offline Defying

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #760 on: Tue, 26 November 2013, 19:39:57 »
regack, can you post a picture of the back of your PCB? I got everything except the diodes, switches, and R4 soldered (I literally cannot find R4 anywhere on the PCB. Front or back.) and it keeps saying "USB Device Has Malfunctioned" when I plug it in.
« Last Edit: Tue, 26 November 2013, 19:46:58 by Defying »

Offline regack

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #761 on: Tue, 26 November 2013, 19:48:26 »
regack, can you post a picture of the back of your PCB? I got everything except the diodes, switches, and R4 soldered (I literally cannot find R4 anywhere on the PCB. Front or back.) and it keeps saying "USB Device Not Recognized" when I plug it in.

Oh, uhh, R4 is actually the through-hole resistor under the numlock (for the numlock LED)... that shouldn't have any effect on it recognizing the device.   I think you'll have to get FLIP installed before it will actually recognize it though... at least I had to do that on 3 computers, but they were all Win x64 machines.

Offline Defying

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #762 on: Tue, 26 November 2013, 19:51:30 »
regack, can you post a picture of the back of your PCB? I got everything except the diodes, switches, and R4 soldered (I literally cannot find R4 anywhere on the PCB. Front or back.) and it keeps saying "USB Device Not Recognized" when I plug it in.

Oh, uhh, R4 is actually the through-hole resistor under the numlock (for the numlock LED)... that shouldn't have any effect on it recognizing the device.   I think you'll have to get FLIP installed before it will actually recognize it though... at least I had to do that on 3 computers, but they were all Win x64 machines.
Erm.... I have an SMD R4 that came with my PCB, not a through-hole.

Also, I have FLIP installed on my Win8.1 x64 machine. Whenever I plug it in, it just goes "USB Device Not Recognized" and when I open up FLIP and try to connect to it, it just says "Could not open USB device" :(

Could incorrectly soldering the crystal on cause it to not be recognized? Not sure if it's soldered on properly..
« Last Edit: Tue, 26 November 2013, 19:53:58 by Defying »

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #763 on: Tue, 26 November 2013, 19:57:57 »
Did you install the driver?

The first time you use Flip, you have to go find the unrecognized USB device in device manager, then tell it to use the driver that is included in the flip installation.

At least that's what I had to do.

Offline Defying

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #764 on: Tue, 26 November 2013, 20:29:13 »
Did you install the driver?

The first time you use Flip, you have to go find the unrecognized USB device in device manager, then tell it to use the driver that is included in the flip installation.

At least that's what I had to do.
This is the error I get when I try to install the driver:


There is no device ID, it's just "USB\UNKNOWN".

Also, this is what it shows up as under Device Manager:
« Last Edit: Tue, 26 November 2013, 20:31:12 by Defying »

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #765 on: Tue, 26 November 2013, 21:01:42 »
Oh okay, then it isn't functioning correctly :(

Have you tried ohming out the resistors?

Offline Defying

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #766 on: Tue, 26 November 2013, 21:06:44 »
Oh okay, then it isn't functioning correctly :(

Have you tried ohming out the resistors?
I don't have a multimeter to do that :(
Is there any special orientation to the resistors?  Just trying to go over all the possibilities :\

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #767 on: Tue, 26 November 2013, 21:23:10 »
Oh okay, then it isn't functioning correctly :(

Have you tried ohming out the resistors?
I don't have a multimeter to do that :(
Is there any special orientation to the resistors?  Just trying to go over all the possibilities :\

No they are the same in either direction.  If I was in your situation, I'd start checking around with my multimeter.  Start with the pins on the ATmega.  Make sure they are all soldered and none are shorted together.

Offline regack

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #768 on: Tue, 26 November 2013, 23:06:16 »
The first time you use Flip, you have to go find the unrecognized USB device in device manager, then tell it to use the driver that is included in the flip installation.

At least that's what I had to do.

I had to do that too.  45 clicks to get to the 'Have Disk' button, then pick  [installdir]\Atmel\Flip 3.4.7\usb\ as the search location.  Windows found the right driver after that.

Offline Defying

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #769 on: Tue, 26 November 2013, 23:08:43 »
The first time you use Flip, you have to go find the unrecognized USB device in device manager, then tell it to use the driver that is included in the flip installation.

At least that's what I had to do.

I had to do that too.  45 clicks to get to the 'Have Disk' button, then pick  [installdir]\Atmel\Flip 3.4.7\usb\ as the search location.  Windows found the right driver after that.
Yeah, but there is no proper device ID so Windows keeps telling me that there's no driver for that .inf :(

Offline regack

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #770 on: Tue, 26 November 2013, 23:17:40 »
Yeah, but there is no proper device ID so Windows keeps telling me that there's no driver for that .inf :(

I have no idea what might cause that...


Offline metalliqaz

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #771 on: Tue, 26 November 2013, 23:19:56 »
"Device Descriptor Request Failed"

The AVR is drawing power but not properly responding on the data lines.

Offline Defying

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #772 on: Tue, 26 November 2013, 23:21:46 »
Yeah, but there is no proper device ID so Windows keeps telling me that there's no driver for that .inf :(

I have no idea what might cause that...
It's a hardware issue, tried it on multiple PC's and the same thing happens. Different USB cable too.

Offline Defying

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #773 on: Tue, 26 November 2013, 23:26:48 »
"Device Descriptor Request Failed"

The AVR is drawing power but not properly responding on the data lines.
Hmm, maybe there's touching solder on the USB connectors data lines? I checked so many times but I could have overlooked it

Offline Photekq

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #774 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 07:57:00 »
mine arrived today. thanks everyone who was involved!

Offline Photekq

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #775 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 08:26:22 »
it matters which way i solder on the diodes/resistors, right? if so, how do i know which way to put them on?

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #776 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 08:36:23 »
TFR don't forget about that PM I sent you!

Yup, yours is on my desk right now! Hopefully I'll have time to finish yours and mine GHpad this weekend.

Any progress?

Offline dragonxx21

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #777 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 11:30:39 »
it matters which way i solder on the diodes/resistors, right? if so, how do i know which way to put them on?
Resisters don't matter. As for diodes I believe there is a stripe or line which shows the cathode (?) end.
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Offline Defying

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #778 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 11:36:18 »
welp I broke my usb connector so I have to wait for a new one from digikey lol

Offline MOZ

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #779 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 11:45:37 »
it matters which way i solder on the diodes/resistors, right? if so, how do i know which way to put them on?

Resistors don't have polarity, so they can go anyway you want.

As for the diodes, the grey line on the diode goes on the side marked below, to identify the end, you need to look for the straight line on the silkscreen shown below:


Offline Photekq

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #780 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 13:06:17 »
thanks moz :thumb:

Offline Photekq

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #781 on: Sun, 01 December 2013, 12:59:57 »
regack could you maybe post a photo of how you bridged the diodes? i'm having some real trouble soldering them.

Offline regack

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #782 on: Sun, 01 December 2013, 13:10:09 »
regack could you maybe post a photo of how you bridged the diodes? i'm having some real trouble soldering them.

I don't know if I can get a good picture with the phonecam.  I'll try, but I won't be home for a bit.  Basically, for the first few I attached one side to the outer edge of the pad, then blobbed a bunch of solder from the other pad to the diode.  It didn't always work, and was frustrating.   For the remaining ones, I ended up using little ~2mm snips of wire (from LED legs) to bridge the gap.  That was much easier, but it certainly looks uglier.  I'll get try to get a photo when I get back.

Offline MOZ

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #783 on: Thu, 05 December 2013, 07:11:52 »
Got my GHPad PCB and electronics in the mail today. Unfortunately for me, exams have me tied up and I leave for vacation right after my exams, thus I don't think I'll be able to test this baby soon. However I do have a solution, that should best utilize the resources and effort spent on this project so far to test the unit. Can't disclose the scheme just yet.

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #784 on: Thu, 05 December 2013, 09:14:07 »
Got all the diodes soldered on. Was actually fine once I got the method down. I just have them mounted at an angle, using solder to bridge the raised leg to the pad.

Unfortunately can't take pictures as I've lost my camera.

Offline dragonxx21

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #785 on: Thu, 05 December 2013, 10:42:48 »
Got all the diodes soldered on. Was actually fine once I got the method down. I just have them mounted at an angle, using solder to bridge the raised leg to the pad.

Unfortunately can't take pictures as I've lost my camera.
Potato cam?
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Offline Photekq

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #786 on: Thu, 05 December 2013, 17:29:34 »
Got all the diodes soldered on. Was actually fine once I got the method down. I just have them mounted at an angle, using solder to bridge the raised leg to the pad.

Unfortunately can't take pictures as I've lost my camera.
Potato cam?
Will post photos tomorrow, as I've just remembered where my camera is. Unfortunately I won't be able to retrieve it until tomorrow. I literally have no other camera, not even a phone camera.

Offline whiskytango

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #787 on: Thu, 05 December 2013, 20:17:28 »
I am having a very difficult time with the diodes. Is there a different size I can order to fit the pads as they are? I'm a big noob when it comes to SMT stuff, and I can't quite figure out how to tell which one I need, so if someone could tell me which part numbers to order from mouser or digikey it would be helpful.

EDIT: What about these?

The data sheet on these suggest a center to center pad distance of 1.7mm. Using my calipers and measuring the pads we have on the proto PCB, this looks about right.
« Last Edit: Thu, 05 December 2013, 20:44:05 by whiskytango »
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Offline regack

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #788 on: Fri, 06 December 2013, 06:23:23 »
I am having a very difficult time with the diodes. Is there a different size I can order to fit the pads as they are? I'm a big noob when it comes to SMT stuff, and I can't quite figure out how to tell which one I need, so if someone could tell me which part numbers to order from mouser or digikey it would be helpful.

EDIT: What about these?

The data sheet on these suggest a center to center pad distance of 1.7mm. Using my calipers and measuring the pads we have on the proto PCB, this looks about right.

I checked against the prototype design and the SOD-523 package should fit in the pads that are on there.    The next board revision has been corrected for the SOD-123.

Offline whiskytango

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #789 on: Fri, 06 December 2013, 08:44:23 »
I am having a very difficult time with the diodes. Is there a different size I can order to fit the pads as they are? I'm a big noob when it comes to SMT stuff, and I can't quite figure out how to tell which one I need, so if someone could tell me which part numbers to order from mouser or digikey it would be helpful.

EDIT: What about these?

The data sheet on these suggest a center to center pad distance of 1.7mm. Using my calipers and measuring the pads we have on the proto PCB, this looks about right.

I checked against the prototype design and the SOD-523 package should fit in the pads that are on there.    The next board revision has been corrected for the SOD-123.

Ok, I just ordered 100 of these. I should have enough leftover to do 3 more PCBs, so if anyone hasn't done theirs yet and you want some of these extras, PM me.
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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #790 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 03:16:23 »
How I soldered the diodes (best pictures i could get given the light)


First time doing SMD (1.6D chisel tip)

Nixdorfs ready to go!


I think I've broken the USB. Where you solder on the five small pins, deep inside that recess underneath the connector itself, two of the pins are bridged with solder. I cannot get my iron in there (even with the needle tip) to remove the bridge. I'm not sure what to do about this.

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #791 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 09:30:56 »
You've been using too much solder.  It's a newbie mistake.  If you've bridged the pins, don't plug it in until you fix it.

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #792 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 10:16:53 »
Ok, I just ordered 100 of these. I should have enough leftover to do 3 more PCBs, so if anyone hasn't done theirs yet and you want some of these extras, PM me.

PM sent.

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #793 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 10:22:35 »
You've been using too much solder.  It's a newbie mistake.  If you've bridged the pins, don't plug it in until you fix it.
That's odd, because I had practically none whatsoever on my tip. I made sure to have as little as possible, and everything seemed to go absolutely fine.

And there's another problem. I plugged it in to test it, and since it came up with an error that made me realise the USB joints were bridged. Now windows won't give me an error or anything. I guess the question is.. what have I broken? :'(

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #794 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 10:35:16 »
You've been using too much solder.  It's a newbie mistake.  If you've bridged the pins, don't plug it in until you fix it.
That's odd, because I had practically none whatsoever on my tip. I made sure to have as little as possible, and everything seemed to go absolutely fine.

And there's another problem. I plugged it in to test it, and since it came up with an error that made me realise the USB joints were bridged. Now windows won't give me an error or anything. I guess the question is.. what have I broken? :'(

The "too much solder" comment was really inspired by your through-hole pictures.  If you are doing the SMD work with a small bead of solder on your tip then you are doing it right, but if you have enough to bridge the pins, then you are either using a tip that is too large or a bead that is too large.  Or, you possibly have really terrible aim, but you're young so I'm willing to bet your hands are much more steady than mine.

I've soldered many of those miniUSB jacks in, and you have to be very careful.  Sometimes I make a mess of it, but with the correct tools, you can usually bail yourself out.  (although I've never managed to bridge one of the pins)  For one thing, I always do a connectivity check with my multimeter after I finish soldering it.  You should also have the smallest tip available for your soldering station.  You should also have a flux pen and some very small desoldering braid.  If you don't have all of those things, you don't have the appropriate tools for this job.  In your situation, I would try two things, in this order: (1) Get some flux in there, clean off your tip, and reheat the solder that is bridging the pins.  It will often separate just by doing that.  Remember- clean tip!  (2) If that doesn't work, I'd get in there with the small desoldering braid.  That is fussy but it should work.  I don't remember what mine is, but perhaps 1mm or 2mm braid.  Pre-fluxed!

I wouldn't worry about Windows yet.  Fix the board then plug it in.  It will probably work.

Offline Photekq

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #795 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 10:43:33 »
I've got some flux, but no small braid. I was using the pointed tip that came with my 888D, by far the smallest I have access too. I think the flux application was a bit hit and miss, since the tip of this crappy flux pen has become all mushed and useless. I ended up applying the flux with a very small screwdriver. Maybe I should get a bonpen...

I will try and get my hands on some small braid and try and desolder it. The problem is that the bridge is right in that gap. I don't think I can even reach it with my iron tip.

And that throughhole in the photo looks as if there's too much solder, but in person the amount is fine. Odd :-\
« Last Edit: Sun, 08 December 2013, 10:45:26 by Photekq »

Offline dragonxx21

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #796 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 10:45:39 »
I've got some flux, but no small braid. I was using the pointed tip that came with my 888D, by far the smallest I have access too. I think the flux application was a bit hit and miss, since the tip of this crappy flux pen has become all mushed and useless. I ended up applying the flux with a very small screwdriver. Maybe I should get a bonpen...

I will try and get my hands on some small braid and try and desolder it. The problem is that the bridge is right in that gap. I don't think I can even reach it with my iron tip.
+1 bonpen. I have one sitting here doing nothing :D
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Offline metalliqaz

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #797 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 10:46:00 »
The nuclear option would be to try and desolder the whole thing, but if you can't even reach it with your tip, you don't have much chance

Offline Photekq

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #798 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 10:47:21 »
but if you can't even reach it with your tip, you don't have much chance
That's what I was thinking.. A hot air gun would be very handy for this. Maybe i'll see if I can find a better tip for the job.

Offline agodinhost

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #799 on: Sun, 08 December 2013, 13:20:21 »
but if you can't even reach it with your tip, you don't have much chance
That's what I was thinking.. A hot air gun would be very handy for this. Maybe i'll see if I can find a better tip for the job.
try the hot air gun first - it`s easier than you think.
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