stash of 15x model f 122key: Auction Time is Here !

[QuidNYC]

I would also be more than happy to buy one (since it's for a good cause)...

So yeah -- "dibs"

[jdcarpe]

I would also like to buy one of these

[The_Beast]

In case I wasn't clear or explicit earlier, I would be delighted to purchase the F122/APC.  That was my first Real Keyboard and I would be a happy camper to have it on (most of) my desk!

If "dibs" can be said, then I be sayin' "dibs" here!

Very best!

 - Ron | samwisekoi

Show Image

I think you're third after hal and me. That is if he's going my dibs

[TheProfosist]

what about me.... ?

[mashby]

Dibs?!?!? 

How about we settle this like adults via Rochambeau?  )

[samwisekoi]

I think you're third after hal and me. That is if he's going my dibs

Yes, but mine was the first "directed dibs".

Hopefully OP will toss some rules into the pond before Hal's avatar starts eating (more) people.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

This could be an F122/APL...

[Krogenar]

Formally: dibs.

[fohat.digs]

Whew!

I am glad I am not in this one.

Bidding blindly against the odd GHer, every few months or so, for a single copy, was one thing.

Pox needs to cut this off as soon as he hits his number, start a lottery, or he will have to endure a bidding war. I wish it were me, I need the money.

[QuidNYC]

I wish I live in Toronto..

not many people on here say that

First and last time 

I've actually always wanted to visit.  Perhaps not in February... but picking up a nice Model F would make a worthy excuse!

[Halverson]

Oh the excitement in here while I slept! I take back wanting two of these, since it seems everyone wants one!
But I would still love one with the orange legends, cracked or not.

[Wopian]

How much did they all cost? :0

[inteli722]

One of these would be nice...depending one the price )

[Krogenar]

I'm surprised how many people want one when AKIMbO could barely sell his decked out one a month or two ago.

I thought his was modded to a more ANSI layout, right? Enter key made horizontal? But it was not of the 122-Key SuperMacross variety shown here, right? Also, question: are the keys on these keyboards two-piece or one? I have a Model M 122-Key (love the layout) and the switches are two pieces, so, wondering if my extra caps would be compatible with the Model F version.

[TheProfosist]

just noticed these are ISO?

[inteli722]

just noticed these are ISO?

SAME HERE.

I can probably deal with ISO, it'll just take a bit of getting used to.

[kishy]

For the benefit of those not in IRC:

- All IBM 122s are "ISO" (although not quite, since this has implications about the key legends and functions which don't necessarily hold true on a 122)
- Particularly in the case of terminal Fs, the physical layout is rather simple to adjust as the entire assembly can be opened. You can make it as fANSIpants as you want.

[rknize]

You will find that all of the IBM terminal keyboards have this layout.  If you see one that looks like ANSI, it's probably because it was modded to be that way (as is the case with mine).

[TheProfosist]

can i get a a close of pic of just one of the keyboards to see the layout and start a planning?

[alaricljs]

3rd pic up from the bottom of the OP.

[TheProfosist]

3rd pic up from the bottom of the OP.

thanks, looks like im going to have my hands full...

[poxeclipse]

T

I'm surprised how many people want one when AKIMbO could barely sell his decked out one a month or two ago.

I thought his was modded to a more ANSI layout, right? Enter key made horizontal? But it was not of the 122-Key SuperMacross variety shown here, right? Also, question: are the keys on these keyboards two-piece or one? I have a Model M 122-Key (love the layout) and the switches are two pieces, so, wondering if my extra caps would be compatible with the Model F version.

The key caps are 2 pieces. This is not an ISO layout, this is what IBM thought in 1984 to be the best layout for them and for users. I used only ANSI keyboards, and switching to the 122-key model f, I thought that the vertical Enter key would be a problem. Not at all. I don't fell  the difference, so, I'm keeping the original layout of the board. Some changes could be done, with not much effort, in the layout. I prefer to keep the original keyboard as it was when was manufactured.

[poxeclipse]

just noticed these are ISO?

Th

How much did they all cost? :0

It's a nice story behind this find, but I will not disclose all the details. Basically, I asked only for two, and I ended up with fifteen. I was thinking to make them available to other interested people. I'm so glad that they ended up in my attic, instead of a garbage dump.

[poxeclipse]

Whew!

I am glad I am not in this one.

Bidding blindly against the odd GHer, every few months or so, for a single copy, was one thing.

Pox needs to cut this off as soon as he hits his number, start a lottery, or he will have to endure a bidding war. I wish it were me, I need the money.

To be honest, it's not about money. It's about something else, which I'm not clear now how to solve it: how to make all the parties involved in this find benefit from it ? If I sell them for $100 each, I don't get rich, if I give them for free, I don't get poor. That's why I asked for suggestions.
Where some see war, I see peace. One love, man.

[Halverson]

Whew!

I am glad I am not in this one.

Bidding blindly against the odd GHer, every few months or so, for a single copy, was one thing.

Pox needs to cut this off as soon as he hits his number, start a lottery, or he will have to endure a bidding war. I wish it were me, I need the money.

To be honest, it's not about money. It's about something else, which I'm not clear now how to solve it: how to make all the parties involved in this find benefit from it ? If I sell them for $100 each, I don't get rich, if I give them for free, I don't get poor. That's why I asked for suggestions.
Where some see war, I see peace. One love, man.

Sell them for whatever cost you got them for. But maybe add a $20 donation fee to GH, maybe like $10 per board for yourself for shipping time and prep? And then shipping cost as well.

Maybe something like that?

[poxeclipse]

I wish I live in Toronto..

not many people on here say that

First and last time 

I've actually always wanted to visit.  Perhaps not in February... but picking up a nice Model F would make a worthy excuse!

This would make it easy for me. You should come up here, at our meetup on Feb 21st.

[Halverson]

Oh and worst comes to worst, if you need help shipping these out, when I'm up this month I could bring them back here and send out. My post office already hates me.

[fohat.digs]

Regarding ISO vs ANSI - see Harry's Bolt Mod

My guide about bolt-modding, which I am maybe not so enthusiastic about recommending anymore, still has clear instructions about how to do the other stuff, too, particularly shuffling barrels and springs to achieve a near-ANSI layout.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37753.msg722184#msg722184

[rootwyrm]

Of note, which I'm sure Soarer knows but didn't go into, technically F13-F24 are specified as part of Set2 - specifically for 3270/5250. The problem is that it A) enlarges your table B) requires your BIOS to speak complete Set2 - which is rare C) requires your OS to speak complete Set2 which yeahno.

Also of note... these speak Set3 Sure, a large subset of the codes are the same as Set2, but that mapping makes the 10 keys at the left F1 to F10. See John Elliot's excellent reference - man, those pages saved me so much time!

Yupyup! There's actually a very limited subset of AMI and Phoenix that speak Set3, believe it or not, usually coupled with a very uncommon ITE used for some high end boards and certain Nuvoton models these days. Extremely hard to find and usually Set3 gets stripped out of BIOS, sadly.
Mostly I wish Microsoft would just frigging add F13-F24. Even when you have full Set2/Set3, Windows' keyboard interpreter ignores F13-F24.

[Wopian]

what exactly does that key in the center of the arrow keys do?

[poxeclipse]

fohat, what is the oldest you found ? I got one here from 30 May 1984.

[poxeclipse]

what exactly does that key in the center of the arrow keys do?

I don't know. To find out, you should use the keyboard on a terminal. Or use Soarer's analyzer, to see the signal sent by that key.
 It's on Deskthority.
With Soarer converter, you can map it to anything you want. In the legacy configuration, that key is mapped to Down arrow.

[samwisekoi]

Oh and worst comes to worst, if you need help shipping these out, when I'm up this month I could bring them back here and send out. My post office already hates me.

Actual LOL there.  Thank you!

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[fohat.digs]

fohat, what is the oldest you found ? I got one here from 30 May 1984.

I have 2 from August 1984, but I think that Dorkvader wins the prize with something like #300 from March 1984.

PS - the center arrow key was originally something like Japanese language, but I recommend setting it to another down arrow, just for consistency with standard ANSI

[AKIMbO]

fohat, what is the oldest you found ? I got one here from 30 May 1984.

I have 2 from August 1984, but I think that Dorkvader wins the prize with something like #300 from March 1984.

PS - the center arrow key was originally something like Japanese language, but I recommend setting it to another down arrow, just for consistency with standard ANSI

My F 122 has a birthdate of Apr 1984.


Also,

From iso-esque.....



To ansi... (not that hard, it just requires a few spare parts from a Model M)

[inteli722]

fohat, what is the oldest you found ? I got one here from 30 May 1984.

I have 2 from August 1984, but I think that Dorkvader wins the prize with something like #300 from March 1984.

PS - the center arrow key was originally something like Japanese language, but I recommend setting it to another down arrow, just for consistency with standard ANSI

My F 122 has a birthdate of Apr 1984.


Also,

From iso-esque.....

Show Image

To ansi... (not that hard, it just requires a few spare parts from a Model M)

Show Image

That is huge.

[fohat.digs]

Huge in weight as well as acreage.

I think that mine weighed in at about 8.2 pounds (3700 grams)!

[AKIMbO]

This thread made me bust out my F-122 and then promptly get yelled at by the GF for typing "on that loud ass mother(loving) keyboard while I'm trying to watch my show."  *whip cracks*

[Krogenar]

This thread made me bust out my F-122 and then promptly get yelled at by the GF for typing "on that loud ass mother(loving) keyboard while I'm trying to watch my show."  *whip cracks*

Akimbro ... You said earlier that converting ANSI like just required extra key caps. Boltmodding not required?

[alaricljs]

Boltmodding just changes how the primary components of the board are held together (matrix film, barrel plate, metal backing plate, ...)  so no, not necessary.

The circuit matrix was designed to support multiple layouts from the start and the barrel plate as well since it's a straight matrix grid (aside from the spacebar/mod row) of barrels.  The unused barrels in a wide (or tall) key are just used to help stabilize the key and have no spring/hammer to hit the contact on the matrix underneath.

edit: as an example the left shift always hits the left most matrix contact under the leftmost barrel.  A wide shift just covers up the next barrel to the right, a short one leaves it empty and sticking a complete spring/hammer/cap assembly there gives you a working switch.

[AKIMbO]

^what alaricjs said.

Bolt modding not required.  All you need is some spare keycaps...and perhaps some spare springs/hammers and barrels.

[rootwyrm]

what exactly does that key in the center of the arrow keys do?

I don't know. To find out, you should use the keyboard on a terminal. Or use Soarer's analyzer, to see the signal sent by that key.
 It's on Deskthority.
With Soarer converter, you can map it to anything you want. In the legacy configuration, that key is mapped to Down arrow.

I do. Center of the arrows performs two functions. Function A (No Modifier) is programmable scancode - there is no specific associated function. You have to configure the terminal to perform a related function. Function B (Ctrl modifier, as I recall) is "Up and Left" or "Diagonal Up-Left" depending who's description you prefer.
But WAIT! There's more!
See, that's only true on the F for PCs. The 3588 terminal (3270 basically) uses up arrow and down arrow as 'roll up' and 'roll down' (not to be confused with scroll,) with the center button as Rule/Pause. (Right Ctrl is Enter and ISO Enter is 'Field Exit'.) You see similar mapping on the 3151 M's.

[Wopian]

I must have a look what my keyboard I have stored at my granddads is, looks similar to this.

what exactly does that key in the center of the arrow keys do?

I don't know. To find out, you should use the keyboard on a terminal. Or use Soarer's analyzer, to see the signal sent by that key.
 It's on Deskthority.
With Soarer converter, you can map it to anything you want. In the legacy configuration, that key is mapped to Down arrow.

I do. Center of the arrows performs two functions. Function A (No Modifier) is programmable scancode - there is no specific associated function. You have to configure the terminal to perform a related function. Function B (Ctrl modifier, as I recall) is "Up and Left" or "Diagonal Up-Left" depending who's description you prefer.
But WAIT! There's more!
See, that's only true on the F for PCs. The 3588 terminal (3270 basically) uses up arrow and down arrow as 'roll up' and 'roll down' (not to be confused with scroll,) with the center button as Rule/Pause. (Right Ctrl is Enter and ISO Enter is 'Field Exit'.) You see similar mapping on the 3151 M's.

I see. Thanks.

[poxeclipse]

GEEKHACK TOWN PEOPLE !
There Will Be Blood ... blah, sorry: Auction !. I see interest and I see strength in you, one day you will be a Model F owner.
You'll decide the price. What I can manage is the shipping cost, which will be $40 for all international, for everybody, so our friends from Europe, Australia, or Africa, all the White people and Black people and Chinese people, have the same access as anybody else.
For Canada it's free shipping.
I don't know if it could be done in this thread. The administrator will tell us.
If not, I'll use the Thunderdome Auction House: ONE BOARD ENTER, ONE MAN LEAVES ! ( ... with the board, of course).

Suggestions are welcome, as usual.

[Alessandro]

I won't be competing because I'm not going to bother with international shipping, but this is going to be great to watch!

[fohat.digs]

The internal construction of the Model F and Model M are completely different, as you will see as soon as you open it up.

The Model M was not intended to be serviced, so with the bolt mod you are basically cutting it apart, and bolting your wreckage back together by an artificial method.

The Model F can be taken apart and re-assembled without damage, it just isn't easy. And it is harder on the big ones than the small ones.

That was the reason for my "Model F Bolt-Modding Guide" mentioned below, but, unlike the Model M, it is not necessary.

In fact, the more practice I get with the clamps, the easier the "sliding force fit" has become for me. The last one I did, I used the original tabs and added just 2 bolts (between the "8" and "F8" and between the Enter and arrow keys) where the plate flexes the most. I now recommend trying to do it the original way before drilling, and cutting the tabs only as a last resort.

Having said that, once the board is apart, you have a great deal of flexibility with the keys. If you do my near-ANSI mod, I believe that you end up with one barrel and spring left over.

If you decide to unveil the 3-4 "secret" keys, you will need a couple of extra barrels and springs. I have a few extras but don't ask me for more than a couple. Model Ms have different springs and all the barrels are integral in one sheet, so forget about M parts.

And, of course, you will need the keys and accessories (including the barrel "chimney" insert sleeves for stabilizer pegs) that you want to change out.

Maybe this will get somebody excited about making some Model M keycaps! I particularly want:

Windows
Mute
Pause

And you will realize that a full range of "media keys" would be great, now that you have those lonely orphaned keys just sitting there!

[samwisekoi]

Maybe this will get somebody excited about making some Model M keycaps! I particularly want:

Windows
Mute
Pause

And you will realize that a full range of "media keys" would be great, now that you have those lonely orphaned keys just sitting there!

Unicomp now has all the media keys from (i believe) the SSK.  I have Mute, VolUp and VolDn on my Model Ms now.


Potato Picture

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[samwisekoi]

GEEKHACK TOWN PEOPLE !
There Will Be Blood ... blah, sorry: Auction !. I see interest and I see strength in you, one day you will be a Model F owner.
You'll decide the price. What I can manage is the shipping cost, which will be $40 for all international, for everybody, so our friends from Europe, Australia, or Africa, all the white people and black people and Chinese people, have the same access as anybody else.
For Canada it's free shipping.
I don't know if it could be done in this thread. The administrator will tell us.
If not, I'll use the Thunderdome Auction House: ONE BOARD ENTER, ONE MAN LEAVE ! ( ... with the board, of course).

Suggestions are welcome, as usually.

Great!

Two things:

#1 You need to start a For Auction [FA] thread in the Marketplace.  Please read the TOS there and take a look at some of the past multi-item auction threads to see how it is done.  Please include rules for the auction and thread, including currency to be used and amount/percent (if any) that will be donated.  PM me or any moderator if you would like help with this.  Alessandro might be a source of advice, as would be other members.

#2  You specified shipping costs for Canada, Europe, Australia, and Africa.  Is the US "International"?

Thanks for doing this.  Let's hope there will be a good clean auction with lots of proceeds for Geekhack and you.

Very best,

 - Ron | samwisekoi

This could be an F122/APL

[fohat.digs]

Maybe this will get somebody excited about making some Model M keycaps! I particularly want:

Windows
Mute
Pause

And you will realize that a full range of "media keys" would be great, now that you have those lonely orphaned keys just sitting there!

Unicomp now has all the media keys from (i believe) the SSK.  I have Mute, VolUp and VolDn on my Model Ms now.

(Attachment Link)
Potato Picture

 - Ron | samwisekoi

Show Image

Those are not pretty ....

I suppose the Volume Up and Volume Down are OK, but are the dots coming out of the speaker supposed to represent "mute"?

Weird graphics, to me. Isn't it usually a speaker with a circle and slash through it?

I bought dark blue "M" and "P" and light blue up and down arrows, which looks pretty good.

I can't find that stuff on the Unicomp site.

[samwisekoi]

Those are not pretty ....

I suppose the Volume Up and Volume Down are OK, but are the dots coming out of the speaker supposed to represent "mute"?

Weird graphics, to me. Isn't it usually a speaker with a circle and slash through it?

I bought dark blue "M" and "P" and light blue up and down arrows, which looks pretty good.

I can't find that stuff on the Unicomp site.

They are not pretty, but that is a terrible photo.  They look fine in red.  And they are not on the site.  Do the customer service ticket thing.  I think I called and asked if they had them. I didn't specify if I did or didn't want Fn on the keys, so they sent both styles.  I'm happy to send you the ones with F10-F12.  I think I have Pebble and Red versions back at the office.  PM me your address in meatspace and they're yours.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[poxeclipse]

The internal construction of the Model F and Model M are completely different, as you will see as soon as you open it up.

The Model M was not intended to be serviced, so with the bolt mod you are basically cutting it apart, and bolting your wreckage back together by an artificial method.

The Model F can be taken apart and re-assembled without damage, it just isn't easy. And it is harder on the big ones than the small ones.

That was the reason for my "Model F Bolt-Modding Guide" mentioned below, but, unlike the Model M, it is not necessary.

In fact, the more practice I get with the clamps, the easier the "sliding force fit" has become for me. The last one I did, I used the original tabs and added just 1 bolt (above the Backspace) where the plate flexes the most. I now recommend trying to do it the original way before drilling, and cutting the tabs only as a last resort.

Having said that, once the board is apart, you have a great deal of flexibility with the keys. If you do my near-ANSI mod, I believe that you end up with one barrel and spring left over.

If you decide to unveil the 3-4 "secret" keys, you will need a couple of extra barrels and springs. I have a few extras but don't ask me for more than a couple. Model Ms have different springs and all the barrels are integral in one sheet, so forget about M parts.

And, of course, you will need the keys and accessories (including the barrel "chimney" insert sleeves for stabilizer pegs) that you want to change out.

Maybe this will get somebody excited about making some Model M keycaps! I particularly want:

Windows
Mute
Pause

And you will realize that a full range of "media keys" would be great, now that you have those lonely orphaned keys just sitting there!

.
clickeykeyboards have springs & hammers for model f, $1 for 8 of them.