Author Topic: [Updated] Wireless GH60  (Read 62589 times)

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Offline agodinhost

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #100 on: Tue, 12 March 2013, 12:17:42 »
I don't know about the exact case height but I think it will be harder to use these connectors in this position. We will have to use 2.54mm angle pins or only wire.

At the usb side the case is higher, there is more room for these pins and for our modules.

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Offline Strelok

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #101 on: Tue, 12 March 2013, 12:22:18 »
I don't know about the exact case height but I think it will be harder to use these connectors in this position. We will have to use 2.54mm angle pins or only wire.

At the usb side the case is higher, there is more room for these pins and for our modules.

Show Image


Yeah it looks like this is our best bet:


Offline agodinhost

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #102 on: Tue, 12 March 2013, 12:44:17 »
For our prototype I think it's good enough.
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #103 on: Tue, 12 March 2013, 14:35:33 »
This was just posted in the DIY resources thread:

Here is another great product: a Bluetooth keyboard adapter that turns a USB/PS2 keyboard into a Bluetooth keyboard. Just got mine. Works like a charm on my Model-M and iPad.

http://handheldsci.com/kb



Offline Strelok

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #104 on: Tue, 12 March 2013, 14:54:46 »
This was just posted in the DIY resources thread:

Here is another great product: a Bluetooth keyboard adapter that turns a USB/PS2 keyboard into a Bluetooth keyboard. Just got mine. Works like a charm on my Model-M and iPad.

http://handheldsci.com/kb



I think hasu already linked that. It's too bulky and obtrusive for my tastes, something that resides within the case is infinitely better in my opinion.

We could potentially reverse engineer it, but I don't know if it would be worth $70.

Offline agodinhost

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #105 on: Tue, 12 March 2013, 14:55:54 »
This was just posted in the DIY resources thread:
Yup, there is a bunch of adapters of this kind out there.
I would love to put my hands into one of these to see what it does, otherwise I would pass (US$ 60,00??? Camon!!! I'm no rich!!!)
Part of the fun is the creation process itself - no guts no glory right?
8-))

thanks jdcarpe
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Offline hasu

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #106 on: Tue, 12 March 2013, 20:35:14 »
LOL. I don't want to remind of my money and time spent for these things.

As for software serial I used it with WT12 at 38.4kbps with ATMega328P@12MHz.

BTW, Poker stock case profile. These values are not exact, just FYI.
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Offline Strelok

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #107 on: Wed, 13 March 2013, 00:02:52 »
LOL. I don't want to remind of my money and time spent for these things.

As for software serial I used it with WT12 at 38.4kbps with ATMega328P@12MHz.

BTW, Poker stock case profile. These values are not exact, just FYI.

If WhiteFireDragon's aluminium case is size we should have no problem fitting anything in there. It is the same shape, but he has weight slots on the inside.

Offline Matt3o

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #108 on: Wed, 13 March 2013, 03:49:00 »
Can't believe I missed this thread.

To avoid switching from BT to USB can't we just take power to charge the battery from the USB and keep using the BT for rx when the keyboard is wired?
« Last Edit: Wed, 13 March 2013, 04:02:04 by Matt3o »

Offline agodinhost

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #109 on: Wed, 13 March 2013, 09:04:30 »
To avoid switching from BT to USB can't we just take power to charge the battery from the USB and keep using the BT for rx when the keyboard is wired?
The USB will power the charger, the lipo will be connected into the charger, the "main board" will be connected into the charger output.
Take a look here.

We still didn't decided about how the expansion will work when connected into the USB.
IMHO would be better to work as we do today (normal USB events, Hasu firmware).
When disconnected is kinda obvious: bluetooth on.

Note that when running under bluetooth the keyboard will be limited to 6KRO (the HID report has a length size limit)
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
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Offline Matt3o

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #110 on: Wed, 13 March 2013, 09:10:32 »
well if the kb works undervolted it should be a lot easier

Offline agodinhost

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #111 on: Wed, 13 March 2013, 09:30:22 »
well if the kb works undervolted it should be a lot easier
What do you mean? I didn't get that ...
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Offline Matt3o

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #112 on: Wed, 13 March 2013, 09:35:43 »
I mean if we can run the cpu at 3.3v@8mhz

Offline agodinhost

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #113 on: Wed, 13 March 2013, 09:46:18 »
I mean if we can run the cpu at 3.3v@8mhz
Oic, true, it's our desire until so far.
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
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Offline Matt3o

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #114 on: Wed, 13 March 2013, 10:45:44 »
don't know if you are aware of the the arduino micro
It has the ATMega328P and it can also output 3v. might be useful at least for prototyping.

Offline Strelok

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #115 on: Wed, 13 March 2013, 10:51:05 »
don't know if you are aware of the the arduino micro
It has the ATMega328P and it can also output 3v. might be useful at least for prototyping.

We are aware, I have one. If I recall agodinhost doesn't have access to one because they're fairly new and not found locally near him yet.

Offline Matt3o

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #116 on: Wed, 13 March 2013, 11:05:34 »
can proxy if needed. anyway I believe mouser has them.

Offline agodinhost

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #117 on: Wed, 13 March 2013, 11:49:37 »
... If I recall agodinhost doesn't have access to one because they're fairly new and not found locally near him yet.
Yup, the closest seller is on ebay, somewhere out there.

can proxy if needed. anyway I believe mouser has them.
Mouser, Farnell, Digikey - all of then are way expensive to me because of the shipping price (no lesser than 40 bucks!).
I do have at home one Leonardo Pro and one Groovy (they made these ones before the "official" Leonardo and Micro).
I'm planning to get a few micros and it would help me a lot man, cause you know - we never know when we will burn something.

much much much obliged, thanks! 8-))
Would it be okay for you?
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
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Offline Matt3o

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #118 on: Wed, 13 March 2013, 12:06:30 »
the Arduino Store ships internationally at 10 I believe, check it out. Not that bad if you get at least 2 boards. Anyway if you need help catching them, just let me know.

Offline agodinhost

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #119 on: Wed, 13 March 2013, 12:41:43 »
It has the ATMega328P and it can also output 3v ...
Actually the Arduino Micro uses the ATMega32u4, the same uC used on Teensy 2.0.  :D

the Arduino Store ships internationally at 10 I believe, check it out. Not that bad if you get at least 2 boards. Anyway if you need help catching them, just let me know.
I'll, thanks man.
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
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Offline agodinhost

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #120 on: Fri, 22 March 2013, 19:35:51 »
Please, I'm looking for Komar's rev b files
They are not at github (komar's main url)

Anyone?
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Offline jdcarpe

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[Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #121 on: Fri, 22 March 2013, 23:35:03 »
He hasn't posted them yet.

Offline komar007

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #122 on: Sat, 23 March 2013, 03:08:05 »
Sorry, just pushed.
Please bear in mind this is not final and will change.
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Offline Matt3o

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #123 on: Sat, 23 March 2013, 03:38:10 »
just out of curiosity... why the USB to the top left? I always see the port in that position but wouldn't be better to place it in a centered position?

Offline mkawa

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #124 on: Sat, 23 March 2013, 08:37:59 »
compatibility with the easily available poker/pure case

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline agodinhost

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #125 on: Sat, 23 March 2013, 09:53:28 »
Sorry, just pushed.
Please bear in mind this is not final and will change.
Sure, and thanks Komar!  :D

compatibility with the easily available poker/pure case
I really don't like this position - center, IMHO, is better to position the keyboard anywhere is your computer ...

I saw somewhere in the GH forum that the poker case has one missing standoff too.

So, there is any chance to, someday, we get one GH 100% specific case? Our own case?
I think we used the poker case as "standard" only to take advantage of the pre-existing aluminum expensive cases, is that right?
« Last Edit: Sat, 23 March 2013, 10:17:35 by agodinhost »
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
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Offline Matt3o

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #126 on: Sat, 23 March 2013, 10:07:04 »
I'm having this CNC milled for a 65% design

16670-0

1 unit should be around 50. Hope to have it in my hands by the end of the month

Offline agodinhost

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #127 on: Sat, 23 March 2013, 10:26:26 »
I'm having this CNC milled for a 65% design ...
Gosh, I hate you!!!
I'm so envy, geeeeeee
I bet you are not married ...

Compact and clean, awesome design dude!
Could we get our hands at your cad files?
I'm not a CAD guy but I'm sure that someone at GH is able to get your design and change it to something specific for our desires (another topic - we will have a lot of ideas on it).
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
GH60 |GH60-Alps |GH60-BT |GHPad/GHPad Alps |GH60-Case |Alps TKL |EL Wire |OS Controller, Round 2 |My Custom Keyboard |WTT/WTB

Offline Matt3o

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #128 on: Sat, 23 March 2013, 11:21:36 »
well, actually I'm married :)

anyway the problem is not the design but finding a place to have it CNC'd (at a decent price)

As soon as I get prototypes I'll post some pictures, if you are willing to modify the PCB to meet this case design there's no problem for me to share the CAD sources.

Note that my kb design is 65% but it fits a 15x5 layout (so it should fit the GH60)
« Last Edit: Sat, 23 March 2013, 11:23:08 by Matt3o »

Offline Lugoues

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #129 on: Wed, 27 March 2013, 11:34:29 »
I'm having this CNC milled for a 65% design

(Attachment Link)

1 unit should be around 50. Hope to have it in my hands by the end of the month

Looks amazing! I wouldn't mind a Pure CNC case ^^

On-Topic though, I would be happy to drop a bit of cash to test a prototype of this. I don't know enough about the design aspect but I'd be happy to build and test it!

Offline agodinhost

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #130 on: Wed, 27 March 2013, 17:14:00 »
So, yesterday I was talking with Matt3o when the postman popped in at here bringing my loved bluetooth parts ...
You know, going back to the prototype.
I'll have some news, soon ...
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
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Offline Strelok

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #131 on: Wed, 27 March 2013, 17:29:29 »
So, yesterday I was talking with Matt3o when the postman popped in at here bringing my loved bluetooth parts ...
You know, going back to the prototype.
I'll have some news, soon ...

Awesome, we're moving right along.

Offline TheQsanity

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #132 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 00:12:13 »
Haven't had time to read all this yet but when I do, maybe I could help ;P
SmallFry! <3

Offline hankz

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #133 on: Tue, 02 April 2013, 01:01:57 »
well, actually I'm married :)

anyway the problem is not the design but finding a place to have it CNC'd (at a decent price)

As soon as I get prototypes I'll post some pictures, if you are willing to modify the PCB to meet this case design there's no problem for me to share the CAD sources.

Note that my kb design is 65% but it fits a 15x5 layout (so it should fit the GH60)
Hi

the GH60 is fit the case that you design?

and I use that to draw a 3D pictuer

the different thing is the USB position.
17572-017572-1
« Last Edit: Tue, 02 April 2013, 01:06:46 by hankz »

Offline agodinhost

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #134 on: Tue, 02 April 2013, 05:35:42 »
Back with some results and findings that I got into my prototype.

So I have bad and good news, let's start with the bad news and then we can plan our next move based on my results:

1) Hasu is right, the CSR Bluetooth board does not came in with HCI support in. I think it's why this board is so cheap, no firmware support at all.
2) CSR HAS one complete HID firmware but it came with the BlueLab 4.1 compiler, but this price is kinda offensive for a few of us.
3) Deam Camera wrote only what he needed for his Explorer Bot theses on his HIC, L2CAP, SDP layers. His HID firmware is not 100% ready for our application - we would have to take a peek into his code to see what we will have to write.

So, the GH60 Bluetooth CSR version will take a while, I'm not sure about how much time it will take.
Hasu seems to be the most HID/USB/C skilled guy between us, so Hasu = Master and Me = blaster (until so far).
Whom else would be able to work on this HID initiative? Would be good to have one idea of man power ...

At this point the RN-42 or Bluegiga seems to be the best option. We could work on a intermediate version with these modules just to release the GH60 Bluetooth ...

So?
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Offline mkawa

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #135 on: Tue, 02 April 2013, 06:16:09 »
soarer also knows USB HID protocol inside and out :)

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Offline Matt3o

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #136 on: Tue, 02 April 2013, 06:31:14 »
I have very very little electronics skill but I was able to connect a bluegiga (on HID by default) to an arduino and have it pair as a keyboard. Now from here to design the PCB there's an abyss...

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #137 on: Tue, 02 April 2013, 07:07:15 »
both the rn-42 and wt21 are pretty barebones modules, but the wt21 is actually significantly smaller (like 10mm shorter). it is, however, about 3$ more at the highest price tier. still, for this one chip we're looking at 20$, vs 20$ for all the passive and active components on the gh60 board :P

anyway, other than the size, the rn-42 looks better application-wise. both do fine with UART (the rn42 can also act as the USB host, but imo that's not the right way to go..), but the wt21 only speaks raw serial, and would rely on the avr to implement the bluetooth HID stack. the rn-42 has a bluetooth HID profile in firmware, and can speak HID via serial. the bluegiga wt12 implements bluetooth HID onboard, but is the same size as the rn-42 and is 10 bucks more. my vote is for the rn42

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Offline hasu

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #138 on: Tue, 02 April 2013, 09:20:19 »
WT21 is class 1 device which probably consumes more power than class 2. You'll want to use class 2 device for long battery life.
And WT21 doesn't seem to be supported by iWRAP firmware offering HID stack. WT12 is good option if you go with Bluegiga.

I found Roving new firmware update(6.15 3/26/2013) for RN42 in user manual. Sounds good!
But also I found this FAQ. Too bad :(  You need to find the module with latest firmware.
http://www.rovingnetworks.com/Current_Firmware
Quote
Q:  How do I upgrade the firmware?
A:  There is currently no way to upgrade Bluetooth firmware in the field.  Please contact your local sales office.
Meanwhile, you can upgrade WT12 yourself with Bluegiga tool. New iWRAP5 firmware is available from their support site. You need to register with decent email address to enter the site, they didn't accept free mail service address like gmail unfortunately. annoying :(
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Offline mbc

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AW: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #139 on: Tue, 02 April 2013, 10:42:01 »
To lazy to read through the thread. But very interested in this.
Would be great if it could remember several pairings and easily toggle between them

Offline agodinhost

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #140 on: Tue, 02 April 2013, 13:06:31 »
I have very very little electronics skill but I was able to connect a bluegiga (on HID by default) to an arduino and have it pair as a keyboard. Now from here to design the PCB there's an abyss...
I think it would require one level converter and one LDO (exact the same things required by the CSR module).

We will need one function to envelop our scan codes, I think it will be kinda similar of this piece of code:

Code: (cpp) [Select]
static void sendKeyState(){
   if(stateChanged){
      calcKeyCodes();
      byte hidReport[REPORT_LENGTH] = {0xFD,0x09,0x01,modifiers[0],0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00,0x00};
      for(int i = 0; i < keyCodeIndex; i++){
         hidReport[5 + i] = keyCodes[i];
      }
      for(int i = 0; i < REPORT_LENGTH; i++){
         Serial.write(hidReport[i]);
      }
      Serial.flush();
   }
}

I got this piece of code from Dirk Porsche blog, keyboard boot mode? He used this code into his Sparkfun BlueSmirf based keyboard (BlueSmirf is based on the RN-42 already mentioned here).

So Matt3o, these missing parts  (the level converter and LDO) are all in this BlueSmirf module and it's open source.

I'm still up to work into the CSR HID but, as I mentioned earlier, it will take more time than I expected.
Hasu mentioned that it would be a good challenge - and there is no Open Source HID stack out there at this moment (as far as I know) ...

hankz, awesome design man!

So:
+1 RN-42 (temporary and quick solution - for those who are in a hurry to get one GH60 wireless keyboard)
+1 to our own Open Source HID Stack
« Last Edit: Tue, 02 April 2013, 13:15:30 by agodinhost »
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
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Offline agodinhost

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #141 on: Tue, 02 April 2013, 13:11:05 »
Sorry, double post ...
« Last Edit: Tue, 02 April 2013, 13:14:48 by agodinhost »
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
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Offline Matt3o

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #142 on: Tue, 02 April 2013, 13:14:24 »
just to be clear. I'm using this


Offline agodinhost

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #143 on: Tue, 02 April 2013, 13:34:52 »
just to be clear. I'm using this ...
Ops, sorry - BlueGiga, we would need a similar "shield" to your module too.
« Last Edit: Tue, 02 April 2013, 13:36:30 by agodinhost »
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
GH60 |GH60-Alps |GH60-BT |GHPad/GHPad Alps |GH60-Case |Alps TKL |EL Wire |OS Controller, Round 2 |My Custom Keyboard |WTT/WTB

Offline Matt3o

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #144 on: Tue, 09 April 2013, 01:48:14 »
I've found this http://www.seeedstudio.com/wiki/Lipo_Rider_Pro to handle the power management thing. If I get it right it automatically switches from USB power to battery power (and even solar panels). The USB is pass through so you can also use it to program a teensy or an arduino.

It's a huge device but maybe something to start from. I ordered one that should arrive this week, it's relatively inexpensive.

Offline agodinhost

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #145 on: Tue, 09 April 2013, 08:17:31 »
I've found this http://www.seeedstudio.com/wiki/Lipo_Rider_Pro to handle the power management thing. If I get it right it automatically switches from USB power to battery power (and even solar panels). The USB is pass through so you can also use it to program a teensy or an arduino.

It's a huge device but maybe something to start from. I ordered one that should arrive this week, it's relatively inexpensive.
Should not be better to keep it small and cheap? I've already proposed one charger into my blog, what's the point in this one Matth3o? Pros and cons?
I thought and assumed that the power/charger were a closed subject.

Up to Friday I'll buy one RN-42 and one giga module. As soon as it arrives I will test the tmk iWrap support to see if it still works with the new giga modules. The hardware part is not an issue for both of these modules (it's kinda similar to what I've already proposed in the CSR version).

Guys, please, I'm on the same page?
« Last Edit: Tue, 09 April 2013, 08:23:17 by agodinhost »
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
GH60 |GH60-Alps |GH60-BT |GHPad/GHPad Alps |GH60-Case |Alps TKL |EL Wire |OS Controller, Round 2 |My Custom Keyboard |WTT/WTB

Offline Matt3o

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #146 on: Tue, 09 April 2013, 08:44:14 »
yours is definitely better, not trying to pollute your post just giving alternatives. (ps: mine is cheaper)

Offline agodinhost

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #147 on: Tue, 09 April 2013, 09:44:29 »
yours is definitely better, not trying to pollute your post just giving alternatives. (ps: mine is cheaper)
Sorry, not even cheaper!
 :D

I bought 10 charges on ebay by US$15,00 with shipping, the one that you did linked is US$9,50 without shipping (and only one piece).
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
GH60 |GH60-Alps |GH60-BT |GHPad/GHPad Alps |GH60-Case |Alps TKL |EL Wire |OS Controller, Round 2 |My Custom Keyboard |WTT/WTB

Offline Matt3o

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #148 on: Tue, 09 April 2013, 10:12:21 »
yours is definitely better, not trying to pollute your post just giving alternatives. (ps: mine is cheaper)
Sorry, not even cheaper!
 :D

I bought 10 charges on ebay by US$15,00 with shipping, the one that you did linked is US$9,50 without shipping (and only one piece).

China FTW! :)

how do you passthrough data to the USB (to program the arduino/teensy)?

Offline agodinhost

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Re: [Updated] Wireless GH60
« Reply #149 on: Tue, 09 April 2013, 12:05:13 »
how do you passthrough data to the USB (to program the arduino/teensy)?
When on 5v only two simple wires.
I do still need to finish the post where I was supposed to show this wiring but I'm still waiting for these modules.
As soon as they arrive I'll be able to post the wiring pictures and to test the 3,3v wiring before pushing to you guys.

Take a look at my USB Header ...
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
GH60 |GH60-Alps |GH60-BT |GHPad/GHPad Alps |GH60-Case |Alps TKL |EL Wire |OS Controller, Round 2 |My Custom Keyboard |WTT/WTB