Author Topic: ANSI size left shift for ISO layout  (Read 7391 times)

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Offline klanh

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ANSI size left shift for ISO layout
« on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 04:11:47 »
So the thing is I really like the "extended" left shift in ANSI but I also like the big enter in ISO. I know that using bigger shift in ISO would mean 1 less key in total but "<>|" is rather useless for me.

So does anyone know a place where such offcenter shift can be bought or if such keys are not made is there known modder here at forums who I could contact about making me one? I would use it in backlit keyboard so you know the deal.

Offline mauri

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Re: ANSI size left shift for ISO layout
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 04:17:46 »
Aren't there ansi boards with the asian really big enter? but dunno if there are any mx ones
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Offline MOZ

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Re: ANSI size left shift for ISO layout
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 04:31:33 »
So you just want a left shift keycap, 2.25u long with the stem at the location of a 1.25u key?

Offline damorgue

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Re: ANSI size left shift for ISO layout
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 04:59:46 »
No need to mod. What Cherry calls 'US international' has an ANSI left shift but an ISO enter.
An example would be the G80-8200LPDUS:


Offline naokira

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Re: ANSI size left shift for ISO layout
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 05:19:04 »
I feel you bro! I want this too but the one you were saying (off center shift) would kill the stem of the switch because its too long.

Fear not my dear sire, we can do this with GH60!
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Offline klanh

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Re: ANSI size left shift for ISO layout
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 07:20:25 »
So you just want a left shift keycap, 2.25u long with the stem at the location of a 1.25u key?

Assuming those numbers are some kind of measurement of length ( sorry I'm not familiar with mechanical keyboard terminology ) where 2.25u is length of ANSI shift and 1.25u is "standard key size" ( ie. "<" or "z" ) then yes that's what I'm thinking about.

Tho as naokira said there might be problem with too much strain on the single stem so dual stem might be better approach. Sorry for my ignorance but again assuming those are measurements of length that would mean the ANSI shift is 0.25u ( +gap between ) shorter than ISO shift+"<" which might make it look quite out of place.

Please bear in mind I do not own a mechanical keyboard and I'm attracted to them because of the customization aspect so I don't know what I wish/want is realisticly possible.

Offline damorgue

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Re: ANSI size left shift for ISO layout
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 07:34:01 »
u refers to a Unit by Cherry, which is 19.05mm. 2.25u is the same as 2.25*19.05mm

There are plenty of folks who mod their Caps Lock and more their stem a bit since they exist with center and off-center stems. I think off-center Caps Lock jams at times so I could imagine what that a large key might do. They even come with a stabilizer when the stem is located in the middle. You'll probably have a better result with a center stemmed ANSI Shift and an ISO Return instead.

Offline lcs

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Re: ANSI size left shift for ISO layout
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 07:35:52 »
No need to mod. What Cherry calls 'US international' has an ANSI left shift but an ISO enter.
An example would be the G80-8200LPDUS:
Show Image


why are there 3 censored keys :P

Offline damorgue

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Re: ANSI size left shift for ISO layout
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 07:38:36 »
No need to mod. What Cherry calls 'US international' has an ANSI left shift but an ISO enter.
An example would be the G80-8200LPDUS:
Show Image


why are there 3 censored keys :P

Because I tend to have my emails, phone numbers and stuff on them. Not that it really matters but I felt like removing them. The pic is quite old, some might have changed since then though.

Offline lcs

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Re: ANSI size left shift for ISO layout
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 07:52:13 »
No need to mod. What Cherry calls 'US international' has an ANSI left shift but an ISO enter.
An example would be the G80-8200LPDUS:
Show Image


why are there 3 censored keys :P

Because I tend to have my emails, phone numbers and stuff on them. Not that it really matters but I felt like removing them. The pic is quite old, some might have changed since then though.

I see. I just noticed the +-... symbols. Looks very useful :) Quite a beautiful board.

Offline damorgue

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Re: ANSI size left shift for ISO layout
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 07:57:34 »
The one reason why I didn't like it happens to be the very reason why OP might like it. It sort of has the required layout from the start, although perhaps a bit big. GH60 would be the smaller alternative to get this natively since I believe it also supports this combo.

I don't think OP will have find it easy to get a large shift work with only the stem from the small shift, and using two stems will be troublesome as it will activate one or both and the <>| key will have to be disconnected etc.

Offline klanh

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Re: ANSI size left shift for ISO layout
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 08:29:37 »
The one reason why I didn't like it happens to be the very reason why OP might like it. It sort of has the required layout from the start, although perhaps a bit big. GH60 would be the smaller alternative to get this natively since I believe it also supports this combo.

I don't think OP will have find it easy to get a large shift work with only the stem from the small shift, and using two stems will be troublesome as it will activate one or both and the <>| key will have to be disconnected etc.

The keyboard in your original photo is way too big for my taste. I'm going with TKL. The GH60 does sound interesting project, but I'd have to wait and see what the end product is like.

The problem I foresee in using 2 stems is purely physical, ie. if you press from 1 far end will the other side follow or get obstructed by the sligt angle difference. Disabling "<" is easy from a sotware standpoint so that's not a problem. Then again why not just bind shift funtionality to "<" as well just in case one or the other lags behind because of where/how you press the cap down.

"u refers to a Unit by Cherry, which is 19.05mm. 2.25u is the same as 2.25*19.05mm"

That sounds troublesome. A ~5mm cap is quite huge. Right shift on the other hand is 0.25u too long. Why no 2.5u caps?!
« Last Edit: Thu, 12 September 2013, 08:43:19 by klanh »

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: ANSI size left shift for ISO layout
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 08:36:59 »
The GH60 does sound interesting project, but I'd have to wait and see what the end product is like.

There's a few floating out there, check this out. And I've tried The_Beast's wood case with a GH60 Rev A PCB.
Please check out TactileZine.com!

Offline MOZ

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Re: ANSI size left shift for ISO layout
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 08:45:11 »
GH60 is going to be a successful product, given the time and work that has gone into it, that you can be sure of.

If you want a TKL, go for the Phantom PCB then, it would support the layout you want, however you would need a custom plate for it.

Maybe ask the_beast if he can hook you up with one.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: ANSI size left shift for ISO layout
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 08:47:18 »
If you want a TKL, go for the Phantom PCB then, it would support the layout you want, however you would need a custom plate for it.

Maybe ask the_beast if he can hook you up with one.

Check this out if you're interested in TKL plates.
Please check out TactileZine.com!

Offline MOZ

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Re: ANSI size left shift for ISO layout
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 08:58:41 »
Was just going to link him to that thread, thanks Cap'n, and the here is where to get the PCB: http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=536

Offline Findecanor

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Re: ANSI size left shift for ISO layout
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 09:28:55 »
Japanese JIS layout has a long left Shift and a vertical Enter key, but it also usually has a 1u Backspace, a smaller right Shift with an extra 1u key next to it and a few extra modifiers for Japanese on the bottom row next to a shorter Space Bar, often with the Alt and Win modifiers squished into smaller keys than otherwise.

Building a GH60 (60%) would be possible without any plate, as it supports PCB-mounted stabilisers.
The Phantom (tenkeyless) supports any combination of ANSI and ISO, windows keys or not on the PCB, but you would have to get a custom plate made. (BTW, the Phantom does not support JIS...)

Offline damorgue

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Re: ANSI size left shift for ISO layout
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 09:38:23 »
"u refers to a Unit by Cherry, which is 19.05mm. 2.25u is the same as 2.25*19.05mm"

That sounds troublesome. A ~5mm cap is quite huge. Right shift on the other hand is 0.25u too long. Why no 2.5u caps?!

No, a 5mm cap would be tiny and doesn't really exist. You are using the unit wrong. There are no cherry caps smaller than 1u, aka 19.05mm (if you measure the actual caps you will get a slightly lower measurement because of the gap).

The normal caps in the alpha (letter) cluster are 1u, and thus about 19.05mm wide. A cap which is 2u wide is thus approximately 38.1mm wide (give or take a mm for gaps).

Offline klanh

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Re: ANSI size left shift for ISO layout
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 10:37:51 »
"u refers to a Unit by Cherry, which is 19.05mm. 2.25u is the same as 2.25*19.05mm"

That sounds troublesome. A ~5mm cap is quite huge. Right shift on the other hand is 0.25u too long. Why no 2.5u caps?!

No, a 5mm cap would be tiny and doesn't really exist. You are using the unit wrong. There are no cherry caps smaller than 1u, aka 19.05mm (if you measure the actual caps you will get a slightly lower measurement because of the gap).

The normal caps in the alpha (letter) cluster are 1u, and thus about 19.05mm wide. A cap which is 2u wide is thus approximately 38.1mm wide (give or take a mm for gaps).

It's just typo between cap and gap, so there would be 5mm GAP between ANSI left shift and ISO "z". To be more precise it's 19.05mm*0.25+1mm(gap between iso shift & <)+1mm(gap between < & z) so roughly 6.5mm.

@CPT & MOZ, that Phantom PCB TKL looks wicked sick. Those 5 extra keys make the look nice and uniform. The thing is I don't have a solder and I have attention span of a monkey. Not to mention I really "need" backlights because I like to be in dark and adding backlights to custom builds seems quite the hassle.

Offline damorgue

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Re: ANSI size left shift for ISO layout
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 11:16:47 »
If you are afraid of soldering, don't be. The phantom has no SMD or other small components. You just have to solder a pre-built large controller, some switches and diodes. There are lso some resistors and LEDs which are optional. All parts are quite big and easy to solder.

I recon most you'll find in the classifieds are already built and most likely all ISO or all ANSI. Your two options are probably to get someone to build it for you, or built it yourself. There are folks who will do the soldering for you, but I suggest you try it.

Offline MOZ

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Re: ANSI size left shift for ISO layout
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 12 September 2013, 11:29:08 »
But he wants backlit.