Author Topic: must... resist... topre  (Read 42037 times)

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Offline goobus

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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #150 on: Tue, 22 October 2013, 13:42:37 »
Wow spicebar that mod sounds amazing! Could I PM you on how to do it myself? Or do I have to wait for your guide? :P

Also damn you guys...the HHKB calling has never been greater after reading this thread..should I go for a type S?? I have yet to try a 55g RF either...time to bring out the big bucks I guess!

Offline Michael

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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #151 on: Tue, 22 October 2013, 14:00:04 »
Wow spicebar that mod sounds amazing! Could I PM you on how to do it myself? Or do I have to wait for your guide? :p

Also damn you guys...the HHKB calling has never been greater after reading this thread..should I go for a type S?? I have yet to try a 55g RF either...time to bring out the big bucks I guess!


I would venture to say that if you don't mind a little modding to your keyboards, then go for the dental band silencing mod for the HHKB. It turned out really well. Shortens the throw slightly, but not
in a bad way. And also removes any rattle (looseness). The dental bands should cost you about 5 dollars, and will take about an hour or so to do the mod, saving you over 100 dollars.

Offline spiceBar

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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #152 on: Tue, 22 October 2013, 17:16:07 »
Wow spicebar that mod sounds amazing! Could I PM you on how to do it myself? Or do I have to wait for your guide? :P

Also damn you guys...the HHKB calling has never been greater after reading this thread..should I go for a type S?? I have yet to try a 55g RF either...time to bring out the big bucks I guess!

I have already posted a guide about silencing the Leopold FC660C. So you can already read this:
  http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49046.msg1056220#msg1056220

The internals are very similar to the HHKB.

I'll post the Realforce mod soon, but it's also very similar. The difference with the Realforce is that there seem to be less tolerance on the width of the landing pads, so I have actually ironed all the landing pads one by one to make them slimmer. The slimmed down landing pads are between 50% and 75% of their initial width. If you don't do this, you get a few stuck keys, so you have to open the keyboard again to fix it. It's a better bet to iron all the landing pads beforehand.

Strangely, I did not have to iron the landing pads for the FC660C, so maybe it is not needed for the HHKB either. But since I don't own one yet, I can't tell.

Silencing is not very difficult, but it's a lot of work. It takes approximately 4 hours if you want to do it completely (this includes filling the voids inside the keyboard and putting rubber foam feet). And you may get a stuck key, which is easy to fix but requires to open the keyboard again.

But the hard work you put in this is rewarded by the result: a solid and incredibly smooth and silent keyboard. I can't stop typing on it now! :)

Offline spiceBar

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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #153 on: Tue, 22 October 2013, 17:22:49 »
Excellent video, spiceBar. I think people underestimate the silencing mod until they do it themselves. I can never own a non-silenced Topre keyboard again because I've become aware how much better it sounds with the silencing mod.

Thanks! I am planning to post a detailed howto about the Realforce mod. After the mod the keyboard feels like it is only one piece. No plastic noise, no cracking or rattling, it feels so solid! I had already posted the howto for the FC660C, but the Realforce is a little different and I took more pictures this time.

I notice the server with the videos is down at this time, so for those who would like to hear the difference please retry later if you cannot access the videos right now.
On a side note how are is your Fc660C? Like the key printing wise?

The printings on the keys will not wear because I'm an AZERTY user. I thought I could adapt to QWERTY but I have given up after a few days, mainly because of the lack of accentuated characters that I have to use all the time. Composing them with several keystrokes breaks my flow.

So I have put stickers on the key and now my FC660C is ANSI FR (AZERTY).

You can actually see the stickers on the first video I have posted.

However the modifier keys are not covered by stickers and I see absolutely no wear on them so far.

Offline Polymer

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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #154 on: Tue, 22 October 2013, 20:18:48 »
Wow spicebar that mod sounds amazing! Could I PM you on how to do it myself? Or do I have to wait for your guide? :P

Also damn you guys...the HHKB calling has never been greater after reading this thread..should I go for a type S?? I have yet to try a 55g RF either...time to bring out the big bucks I guess!

This was one of those mods that has some good and bad things..the change in throw looks significant and the sound IMO, is missing some of the warmth....although it is always really hard to tell with mics...I like other things about it though...

Also, one problem when people do sound tests is they're testing the keys in an unrealistic way.  There are ways to maximize the sound on a normal Topre switch but only really odd henpecking will get you that.  A better way to test is just do normal typing..since that is what is going to be used anyways..


Offline spiceBar

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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #155 on: Tue, 22 October 2013, 21:18:07 »
Wow spicebar that mod sounds amazing! Could I PM you on how to do it myself? Or do I have to wait for your guide? :P

Also damn you guys...the HHKB calling has never been greater after reading this thread..should I go for a type S?? I have yet to try a 55g RF either...time to bring out the big bucks I guess!

This was one of those mods that has some good and bad things..the change in throw looks significant and the sound IMO, is missing some of the warmth....although it is always really hard to tell with mics...I like other things about it though...

Also, one problem when people do sound tests is they're testing the keys in an unrealistic way.  There are ways to maximize the sound on a normal Topre switch but only really odd henpecking will get you that.  A better way to test is just do normal typing..since that is what is going to be used anyways..

In the video I type in a normal way for a few seconds and I think this shows very well the sound difference.

The first few unrealistic ways to type are just to show the silencing in a very obvious way. From that you already get that there is a huge difference between the two keyboards (which are otherwise the same, their serial numbers are very close). Then I finish by typing "normally" and you can still hear this difference.

The change in key travel is about 0.5mm. You can feel it if you press a key slowly. When you type at normal speed, it's very hard to feel this difference. One thing it does is that the keys become more sensitive, and I can understand that some people will not like it.

I don't think there is anything warm in the sound of an unmodified Topre switch. The sound of plastic against plastic is what is suppressed, and if anything I think the silenced keyboard has a warmer, smoother sound. Maybe the warmth you are talking about was somehow in the resonance of the case, and if so you can just leave the voids unfilled. Or maybe it was in the low frequencies that produces the desk when it reacts to the shocks on the keyboard and in this case you can remove the rubber foam feet. It is rather easy to "tune" the sound of the keyboard.

But I prefer it as silent as possible.

Offline Cafeine

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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #156 on: Tue, 22 October 2013, 22:10:42 »
Excellent video, spiceBar. I think people underestimate the silencing mod until they do it themselves. I can never own a non-silenced Topre keyboard again because I've become aware how much better it sounds with the silencing mod.

Thanks! I am planning to post a detailed howto about the Realforce mod. After the mod the keyboard feels like it is only one piece. No plastic noise, no cracking or rattling, it feels so solid! I had already posted the howto for the FC660C, but the Realforce is a little different and I took more pictures this time.

I notice the server with the videos is down at this time, so for those who would like to hear the difference please retry later if you cannot access the videos right now.
On a side note how are is your Fc660C? Like the key printing wise?

The printings on the keys will not wear because I'm an AZERTY user. I thought I could adapt to QWERTY but I have given up after a few days, mainly because of the lack of accentuated characters that I have to use all the time. Composing them with several keystrokes breaks my flow.

So I have put stickers on the key and now my FC660C is ANSI FR (AZERTY).

You can actually see the stickers on the first video I have posted.

However the modifier keys are not covered by stickers and I see absolutely no wear on them so far.

Well, I'm an AZERTY user too (well, my keymap is a mix of what I need ;) ) but I can sadly report that the keys are fading fast. Same on the FC660M for the record. Leopold do use a crappy method on them. The GOOD news is I should be able to have a blank KB soon, and I would love too. Need to find a way to speed up / finish the job of my fingers.  8)

Anyway, that layout is still one of my fav and the FC660C sounds fantastic (I used or owned every topre board around) even with any mod. Mine do not sound exactly like the video btw, weird. On thing is clear, the Type-S of my friend will not have keycaps probs ! Blanks ftw! ;)
Own : HHKB Type-S | Leopold FC660C (x2 - 1st Gen & 2014 silenced) | RealForce 87U TKL (55g uniform) | RF 23U | Minila Air MX Blue
Sold : RealForce 88UB 45g | Leopold FC660M (MX Clear) | Filco MJ2 TKL (MX Brown) |  KeyCool 84 (MX Black) | CodeKeyboard TKL (MX Clear)

Offline Polymer

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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #157 on: Wed, 23 October 2013, 00:33:47 »
I don't think there is anything warm in the sound of an unmodified Topre switch. The sound of plastic against plastic is what is suppressed, and if anything I think the silenced keyboard has a warmer, smoother sound. Maybe the warmth you are talking about was somehow in the resonance of the case, and if so you can just leave the voids unfilled. Or maybe it was in the low frequencies that produces the desk when it reacts to the shocks on the keyboard and in this case you can remove the rubber foam feet. It is rather easy to "tune" the sound of the keyboard.

But I prefer it as silent as possible.

What is the plastic against plastic?  On the way up you mean?

I'm talking about on the way down..it doesn't quite sound as warm as a Type S...although some may prefer it that way (I'm not saying which is better, just what my observation, flawed or not, is). 

I do think it is interesting that it has made it more sensitive..I didn't think about that but it makes sense...not allowing it to go all the way up means it is closer to actuation....Have you seen any issues w/ it doing a "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" type thing people have with the variables because the 30g are so light?

Offline spiceBar

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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #158 on: Wed, 23 October 2013, 08:14:28 »
I don't think there is anything warm in the sound of an unmodified Topre switch. The sound of plastic against plastic is what is suppressed, and if anything I think the silenced keyboard has a warmer, smoother sound. Maybe the warmth you are talking about was somehow in the resonance of the case, and if so you can just leave the voids unfilled. Or maybe it was in the low frequencies that produces the desk when it reacts to the shocks on the keyboard and in this case you can remove the rubber foam feet. It is rather easy to "tune" the sound of the keyboard.

But I prefer it as silent as possible.

What is the plastic against plastic?  On the way up you mean?

I'm talking about on the way down..it doesn't quite sound as warm as a Type S...although some may prefer it that way (I'm not saying which is better, just what my observation, flawed or not, is). 

I do think it is interesting that it has made it more sensitive..I didn't think about that but it makes sense...not allowing it to go all the way up means it is closer to actuation....Have you seen any issues w/ it doing a "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" type thing people have with the variables because the 30g are so light?

Plastic against plastic is on the upstroke (the way up). I insert slimmed down landing pads on the stem (plunger) to almost eliminate this "click" noise.

On Cherry MX switches, the landing pads are used to dampen the downstroke, so I guess that's how my mod could be misunderstood.

The sound of the downstroke is not changed at all by the landing pads mod on Topre. However, filling the voids in the case and adding foam rubber feet probably changed this sound by eliminating the resonances in the case itself, and the low frequency resonance of the desk (yes, your desk participates in the sound of your keyboard).

If you just put landing pads and don't mod anything else, the sound of the downstroke is unchanged.

What the mod does is the same thing you do when you press a key and release your finger slowly so it does not make noise on the upstroke. Just that.

The Type-S Topre keyboards do not alter the sound of the downstroke either. As far as I can tell, they have a flat silicone ring on the stem, exactly where I put landing pads. What is silenced is always the upstroke.

There is no real need to silence the downstroke, as it is already very soft: of the downstroke the stem (plunger) presses on the rubber dome and so there is not hard shock because the top of the dome is rather thick.

Yes, I see issues with "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa", but I already had them before modding the board. Maybe the key is even more sensitive now, a little bit, but anyway on the Realforce you must have light fingers on the side keys. You can rest them on F and J without any problem however.

The issue I had after reassembling the keyboard was that I did not notice that one key was stuck. Before putting back all the screws, I just screw a few of them, I plug the keyboard and I test every key. I did not test well enough and I did not notice that the "2" key was stuck. It was not permanently stuck, but depending on how I pressed on the key sometimes it stayed activated. While fixing this, I noticed that the landing pad had not been slimmed down at all by the ironing process. Or maybe I just forgot to iron it. I replaced it with another one (I always do a few more), and that was it.

Offline spiceBar

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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #159 on: Wed, 23 October 2013, 08:34:36 »
Excellent video, spiceBar. I think people underestimate the silencing mod until they do it themselves. I can never own a non-silenced Topre keyboard again because I've become aware how much better it sounds with the silencing mod.

Thanks! I am planning to post a detailed howto about the Realforce mod. After the mod the keyboard feels like it is only one piece. No plastic noise, no cracking or rattling, it feels so solid! I had already posted the howto for the FC660C, but the Realforce is a little different and I took more pictures this time.

I notice the server with the videos is down at this time, so for those who would like to hear the difference please retry later if you cannot access the videos right now.
On a side note how are is your Fc660C? Like the key printing wise?

The printings on the keys will not wear because I'm an AZERTY user. I thought I could adapt to QWERTY but I have given up after a few days, mainly because of the lack of accentuated characters that I have to use all the time. Composing them with several keystrokes breaks my flow.

So I have put stickers on the key and now my FC660C is ANSI FR (AZERTY).

You can actually see the stickers on the first video I have posted.

However the modifier keys are not covered by stickers and I see absolutely no wear on them so far.

Well, I'm an AZERTY user too (well, my keymap is a mix of what I need ;) ) but I can sadly report that the keys are fading fast. Same on the FC660M for the record. Leopold do use a crappy method on them. The GOOD news is I should be able to have a blank KB soon, and I would love too. Need to find a way to speed up / finish the job of my fingers.  8)

Anyway, that layout is still one of my fav and the FC660C sounds fantastic (I used or owned every topre board around) even with any mod. Mine do not sound exactly like the video btw, weird. On thing is clear, the Type-S of my friend will not have keycaps probs ! Blanks ftw! ;)
Show Image


I have decided that AZERTY on ANSI layout is exactly what I like. I like the symmetry of the ANSI layout, and the short right Shift on ISO always bothered me (I use the right Shift a lot, for example to select text).

Settling on ANSI also gives me a much larger choice of keycaps. Actually with ISO you don't have any choice at all. ISO keycaps sets are so rare that in practice it's not an option.

On ISO, we have one more key than on ANSI. It turns out that on ANSI with the AZERTY layout the missing key is the one that does a totally stupid and useless "square of" (superscript 2). So the ANSI keyboard has a key less, but I do not miss that key at all.

The down side is that I need to put stickers on some keycaps to convert the keyboard from QWERTY to AZERTY, but I can live with that. I have found good quality vinyl stickers. They look very durable and to the touch they feel almost the same as the naked keycaps.

Some day I may go for a completely blank keyboard and the problem will be solved in the most elegant way.

Offline Air tree

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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #160 on: Wed, 23 October 2013, 08:55:50 »
Hmm i was just looking at the HHKB pro 2 and i just noticed there is not a backspace key to be seen. Could someone point it out to me?

I feel slightly stupid  :'(

EDIT: I just noticed it is under a fuction layer on the delete key..Odd, I'm wondering how that will fill with the amount i hit backspace to correct my obscene amount of typos or re thinking how i want to go about a sentence.
« Last Edit: Wed, 23 October 2013, 08:58:31 by Air tree »

Offline saturnotaku

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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #161 on: Wed, 23 October 2013, 09:00:32 »
EDIT: I just noticed it is under a fuction layer on the delete key..Odd, I'm wondering how that will fill with the amount i hit backspace to correct my obscene amount of typos or re thinking how i want to go about a sentence.

One of the DIP switches toggles that key between backspace and delete, so you can set it however you want.

Offline Polymer

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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #162 on: Wed, 23 October 2013, 09:06:51 »
Plastic against plastic is on the upstroke (the way up). I insert slimmed down landing pads on the stem (plunger) to almost eliminate this "click" noise.

On Cherry MX switches, the landing pads are used to dampen the downstroke, so I guess that's how my mod could be misunderstood.

Yeah..I was pretty sure you were talking upstroke since that is the only way to really silence it...

The sound of the downstroke is not changed at all by the landing pads mod on Topre. However, filling the voids in the case and adding foam rubber feet probably changed this sound by eliminating the resonances in the case itself, and the low frequency resonance of the desk (yes, your desk participates in the sound of your keyboard).

Yeah..I realize that part..but it effectively changes the sound on the downstroke as well...it sounds different to me anyways...I'm not saying the switch itself isolated from everything else is making a different sound..but the sound coming from the keyboard itself is different..just as the HHKB sounds different from a RF...

What the mod does is the same thing you do when you press a key and release your finger slowly so it does not make noise on the upstroke. Just that.

The Type-S Topre keyboards do not alter the sound of the downstroke either. As far as I can tell, they have a flat silicone ring on the stem, exactly where I put landing pads. What is silenced is always the upstroke.

Yes and no right..I mean, you've filled in the space there so it has changed some of the sound...I think that is my main point.

Also, the plunger for the Type-S is slightly different and accounts for the ring so it doesn't change the the travel.
 
Yes, I see issues with "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa", but I already had them before modding the board. Maybe the key is even more sensitive now, a little bit, but anyway on the Realforce you must have light fingers on the side keys. You can rest them on F and J without any problem however.
On the variable you mean?  Interesting mod either way..definitely the quietest mod out of all of them..and even quieter than the Type-S and Silent RF from what I can tell....and since that is your objective I think it worked out very well for you...

As I said, I think it made the keyboard seem really solid...It just seems like it is missing some of the thock...I guess because I use both a HHKB and RF and I see a difference between the two (as well as silent versions) that it seems like something is missing..but as you said, you really enjoy it that way and I'm sure there are tons of other people that really enjoy it that way...Or it could just be the sound from online..it is really hard to compare the two so it could just be what I'm hearing in person vs. what I hear on a vid...



Offline Polymer

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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #163 on: Wed, 23 October 2013, 09:09:48 »
Hmm i was just looking at the HHKB pro 2 and i just noticed there is not a backspace key to be seen. Could someone point it out to me?

I feel slightly stupid  :'(

EDIT: I just noticed it is under a fuction layer on the delete key..Odd, I'm wondering how that will fill with the amount i hit backspace to correct my obscene amount of typos or re thinking how i want to go about a sentence.

You can make it so the delete key is backspace...I think most people do that...It does take a bit of time getting used to the position but you'll eventually be able to switch back and forth no problem..

Oddly enough, I've made my RFs caplock ctrl but I still mess up when going back and forth..but when I'm using a HHKB it is natural to use the ctrl where the capslock is..weird huH?

Offline spiceBar

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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #164 on: Wed, 23 October 2013, 09:31:46 »
Plastic against plastic is on the upstroke (the way up). I insert slimmed down landing pads on the stem (plunger) to almost eliminate this "click" noise.

On Cherry MX switches, the landing pads are used to dampen the downstroke, so I guess that's how my mod could be misunderstood.

Yeah..I was pretty sure you were talking upstroke since that is the only way to really silence it...

The sound of the downstroke is not changed at all by the landing pads mod on Topre. However, filling the voids in the case and adding foam rubber feet probably changed this sound by eliminating the resonances in the case itself, and the low frequency resonance of the desk (yes, your desk participates in the sound of your keyboard).

Yeah..I realize that part..but it effectively changes the sound on the downstroke as well...it sounds different to me anyways...I'm not saying the switch itself isolated from everything else is making a different sound..but the sound coming from the keyboard itself is different..just as the HHKB sounds different from a RF...

What the mod does is the same thing you do when you press a key and release your finger slowly so it does not make noise on the upstroke. Just that.

The Type-S Topre keyboards do not alter the sound of the downstroke either. As far as I can tell, they have a flat silicone ring on the stem, exactly where I put landing pads. What is silenced is always the upstroke.

Yes and no right..I mean, you've filled in the space there so it has changed some of the sound...I think that is my main point.

Also, the plunger for the Type-S is slightly different and accounts for the ring so it doesn't change the the travel.
 
Yes, I see issues with "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa", but I already had them before modding the board. Maybe the key is even more sensitive now, a little bit, but anyway on the Realforce you must have light fingers on the side keys. You can rest them on F and J without any problem however.
On the variable you mean?  Interesting mod either way..definitely the quietest mod out of all of them..and even quieter than the Type-S and Silent RF from what I can tell....and since that is your objective I think it worked out very well for you...

As I said, I think it made the keyboard seem really solid...It just seems like it is missing some of the thock...I guess because I use both a HHKB and RF and I see a difference between the two (as well as silent versions) that it seems like something is missing..but as you said, you really enjoy it that way and I'm sure there are tons of other people that really enjoy it that way...Or it could just be the sound from online..it is really hard to compare the two so it could just be what I'm hearing in person vs. what I hear on a vid...

The presence of the landing pad inside the switch is negligible regarding the downstroke sound. It does not alter that sound at all.

I have put a fair amount of rubber foam inside the keyboard itself and THAT is changing the sound of the downstroke. Look at this:

40625-0

The white filling is a rather dense rubber foam (it's a shower mat). There are two layers of it in the top part of the case. At the bottom of the case there was not enough width to put some, so I ended up putting compressible black foam and some adhesive soft foam pads.

This amount of material inside the case definitely changes the sound of the downstroke. A lot of the keypress' shock wave is absorbed and the resonance is also completely different because the back of the keyboard is not free to vibrate anymore.

Imagine filling a guitar with similar material: naturally the guitar would not sound as "warn" anymore. You would actually barely hear it.

So don't look any further. The landing pads do not change the downstroke sound. The filling inside the case does.
« Last Edit: Wed, 23 October 2013, 09:38:33 by spiceBar »

Offline Air tree

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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #165 on: Wed, 23 October 2013, 09:40:58 »
Well.. That's it!

I'm going to order a HHKB soon, What colour should i order it in? White or black? And any key cap combos you guys want to see :D? Suggestions I NEED THEM

Offline Polymer

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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #166 on: Wed, 23 October 2013, 22:03:14 »
Imagine filling a guitar with similar material: naturally the guitar would not sound as "warn" anymore. You would actually barely hear it.

So don't look any further. The landing pads do not change the downstroke sound. The filling inside the case does.

Oh ok..I see..Thanks for sharing that..really quite interesting...

Offline rowdy

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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #167 on: Thu, 24 October 2013, 00:02:49 »
Once you get used to where HHKB backspace is, you will find yourself typing \\\\\\\\\\\ on standard layout keyboards all the time :))
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline Polymer

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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #168 on: Thu, 24 October 2013, 01:14:37 »
IMO, you'll eventually get used to going back and forth..at least, that's what happened with me..it was really difficult at first...I even considered getting rid of my HHKB specifically because it was too hard going back and forth....but eventually I got used to it and now it is seems really natural..although to be honest, I'm not sure why...

Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #169 on: Thu, 24 October 2013, 01:24:33 »
IMO, you'll eventually get used to going back and forth..at least, that's what happened with me..it was really difficult at first...I even considered getting rid of my HHKB specifically because it was too hard going back and forth....but eventually I got used to it and now it is seems really natural..although to be honest, I'm not sure why...

In the olden days the backspace used to be above Return and Ctrl used to be next to A.  This is HHKB layout.

More modern keyboards changed this layout and become commonplace.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline goobus

  • HHKB Elite
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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #170 on: Thu, 24 October 2013, 01:53:50 »
Should I get an HHKB or wait for RF 55g to be back in stock?  I'm quite interested in trying the layout but also want to try 55g switches. I had a RF 45g that I gave away cause I thought it was too mushy..

Offline Emospence

  • Posts: 316
  • Location: Singapore
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #171 on: Thu, 24 October 2013, 02:07:38 »
Should I get an HHKB or wait for RF 55g to be back in stock?  I'm quite interested in trying the layout but also want to try 55g switches. I had a RF 45g that I gave away cause I thought it was too mushy..

I would like to be your friend.

That said, I am in the same exact dilemma!
Keyboards: Topre Realforce 87UW 55g x 2
Mice: Zowie EC1 eVo CL x 2
Mousepads: Artisan Hien VE x 2, Razer Mantis Speed

Offline PadawanGeek

  • Posts: 709
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #172 on: Thu, 24 October 2013, 02:57:49 »
Well.. That's it!

I'm going to order a HHKB soon, What colour should i order it in? White or black? And any key cap combos you guys want to see :D? Suggestions I NEED THEM
It's down to persoanl preference, but for me, between the Charcoal grey and white, I like the white more.....

Offline Air tree

  • Better late than never ^-^
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  • Formerly not demik
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #173 on: Thu, 24 October 2013, 03:10:37 »
Well.. That's it!

I'm going to order a HHKB soon, What colour should i order it in? White or black? And any key cap combos you guys want to see :D? Suggestions I NEED THEM
It's down to persoanl preference, but for me, between the Charcoal grey and white, I like the white more.....

On another thought, How do you like your Realforce 55g? Do you like it more than your HHKB? Just wondering since everyone seems to be talking about the 55g.

Offline Polymer

  • Posts: 1587
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #174 on: Thu, 24 October 2013, 08:08:00 »
IMO, you'll eventually get used to going back and forth..at least, that's what happened with me..it was really difficult at first...I even considered getting rid of my HHKB specifically because it was too hard going back and forth....but eventually I got used to it and now it is seems really natural..although to be honest, I'm not sure why...

In the olden days the backspace used to be above Return and Ctrl used to be next to A.  This is HHKB layout.

More modern keyboards changed this layout and become commonplace.

I remember the CTRL being next to A but I don't remember the backspace ever being there...I think some of my old computers had the ISO type enter so early Apple, Trash 80, pre-mac, old IBM days...

Offline spiceBar

  • Posts: 998
    • ChessTiger.com
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #175 on: Thu, 24 October 2013, 08:42:11 »
IMO, you'll eventually get used to going back and forth..at least, that's what happened with me..it was really difficult at first...I even considered getting rid of my HHKB specifically because it was too hard going back and forth....but eventually I got used to it and now it is seems really natural..although to be honest, I'm not sure why...

In the olden days the backspace used to be above Return and Ctrl used to be next to A.  This is HHKB layout.

More modern keyboards changed this layout and become commonplace.

I remember the CTRL being next to A but I don't remember the backspace ever being there...I think some of my old computers had the ISO type enter so early Apple, Trash 80, pre-mac, old IBM days...

The TRS-80 had an horizontal large (2x) white Enter, like on the ANSI layout. The backspace was just above. It was a little arrow pointing to the left. At its right was a little arrow pointing to the right which actually did Tab by default. In games and editors, these keys where just directional arrows. The up and down arrows where located where we currently have CapsLock and Tab, and it actually made a lot of sense: when playing games, once mastered, this arrow layout was a killer. Both hands were working and you could do incredibly complex moves. A one handed arrow cluster does not allow that.

Offline Polymer

  • Posts: 1587
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #176 on: Thu, 24 October 2013, 09:06:13 »
IMO, you'll eventually get used to going back and forth..at least, that's what happened with me..it was really difficult at first...I even considered getting rid of my HHKB specifically because it was too hard going back and forth....but eventually I got used to it and now it is seems really natural..although to be honest, I'm not sure why...

In the olden days the backspace used to be above Return and Ctrl used to be next to A.  This is HHKB layout.

More modern keyboards changed this layout and become commonplace.

I remember the CTRL being next to A but I don't remember the backspace ever being there...I think some of my old computers had the ISO type enter so early Apple, Trash 80, pre-mac, old IBM days...

The TRS-80 had an horizontal large (2x) white Enter, like on the ANSI layout. The backspace was just above. It was a little arrow pointing to the left. At its right was a little arrow pointing to the right which actually did Tab by default. In games and editors, these keys where just directional arrows. The up and down arrows where located where we currently have CapsLock and Tab, and it actually made a lot of sense: when playing games, once mastered, this arrow layout was a killer. Both hands were working and you could do incredibly complex moves. A one handed arrow cluster does not allow that.

Yeap..not saying the TRS 80 was ISO..saying a lot of older keyboards were the double height enter key...but yeah, I didn't remember the arrow keys on the right above the enter key.

I'm not sure any of those layouts back then made any sense... slightly different layout for each computer...and pretty bad in comparison...

Offline Melvang

  • Exquisite Lord of Bumfluff
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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #177 on: Thu, 24 October 2013, 09:14:56 »
The one thing I am waiting on for my own buckling spring is for someone to figure out a somewhat cheap but very reliable method to custom membranes and putting BS switches in an ergo Dox  Problem is I would have to buy 2 left sides and one right.  Would have to set up the one left half as a game pad.
OG Kishsaver, Razer Orbweaver clears and reds with blue LEDs, and Razer Naga Epic.   "Great minds crawl in the same sewer"  Uncle Rich

Offline spiceBar

  • Posts: 998
    • ChessTiger.com
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #178 on: Thu, 24 October 2013, 10:20:48 »
IMO, you'll eventually get used to going back and forth..at least, that's what happened with me..it was really difficult at first...I even considered getting rid of my HHKB specifically because it was too hard going back and forth....but eventually I got used to it and now it is seems really natural..although to be honest, I'm not sure why...

In the olden days the backspace used to be above Return and Ctrl used to be next to A.  This is HHKB layout.

More modern keyboards changed this layout and become commonplace.

I remember the CTRL being next to A but I don't remember the backspace ever being there...I think some of my old computers had the ISO type enter so early Apple, Trash 80, pre-mac, old IBM days...

The TRS-80 had an horizontal large (2x) white Enter, like on the ANSI layout. The backspace was just above. It was a little arrow pointing to the left. At its right was a little arrow pointing to the right which actually did Tab by default. In games and editors, these keys where just directional arrows. The up and down arrows where located where we currently have CapsLock and Tab, and it actually made a lot of sense: when playing games, once mastered, this arrow layout was a killer. Both hands were working and you could do incredibly complex moves. A one handed arrow cluster does not allow that.

Yeap..not saying the TRS 80 was ISO..saying a lot of older keyboards were the double height enter key...but yeah, I didn't remember the arrow keys on the right above the enter key.

I'm not sure any of those layouts back then made any sense... slightly different layout for each computer...and pretty bad in comparison...

The PET had an horrible keyboard. The Apple II and the TRS-80 had decent ones.

At least in those days every personal computer had a mechanical keyboard. Then the ZX-80 started the downward spiral into the membrane nightmare.

I think the TRS-80 had linear ALPS, but I have not been able to confirm this. It was my first real computer. I remember the keys felt like Cherry MX blacks, or maybe reds. When you bottomed out hard, the plate (yes, it had a plate) did a lot of metallic noise. That keyboard took a lot of abuse but never ever missed any single keystroke.

Offline Cafeine

  • Posts: 107
  • Location: Paris / France
    • GeekZone
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #179 on: Thu, 24 October 2013, 15:51:43 »

The presence of the landing pad inside the switch is negligible regarding the downstroke sound. It does not alter that sound at all.

I have put a fair amount of rubber foam inside the keyboard itself and THAT is changing the sound of the downstroke. Look at this:

(Attachment Link)

The white filling is a rather dense rubber foam (it's a shower mat). There are two layers of it in the top part of the case. At the bottom of the case there was not enough width to put some, so I ended up putting compressible black foam and some adhesive soft foam pads.

This amount of material inside the case definitely changes the sound of the downstroke. A lot of the keypress' shock wave is absorbed and the resonance is also completely different because the back of the keyboard is not free to vibrate anymore.

Imagine filling a guitar with similar material: naturally the guitar would not sound as "warn" anymore. You would actually barely hear it.

So don't look any further. The landing pads do not change the downstroke sound. The filling inside the case does.

You're near Paris? Because I totally want to make you mod my 55g one day.  8)
Own : HHKB Type-S | Leopold FC660C (x2 - 1st Gen & 2014 silenced) | RealForce 87U TKL (55g uniform) | RF 23U | Minila Air MX Blue
Sold : RealForce 88UB 45g | Leopold FC660M (MX Clear) | Filco MJ2 TKL (MX Brown) |  KeyCool 84 (MX Black) | CodeKeyboard TKL (MX Clear)

Offline spiceBar

  • Posts: 998
    • ChessTiger.com
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #180 on: Thu, 24 October 2013, 19:36:35 »

The presence of the landing pad inside the switch is negligible regarding the downstroke sound. It does not alter that sound at all.

I have put a fair amount of rubber foam inside the keyboard itself and THAT is changing the sound of the downstroke. Look at this:

(Attachment Link)

The white filling is a rather dense rubber foam (it's a shower mat). There are two layers of it in the top part of the case. At the bottom of the case there was not enough width to put some, so I ended up putting compressible black foam and some adhesive soft foam pads.

This amount of material inside the case definitely changes the sound of the downstroke. A lot of the keypress' shock wave is absorbed and the resonance is also completely different because the back of the keyboard is not free to vibrate anymore.

Imagine filling a guitar with similar material: naturally the guitar would not sound as "warn" anymore. You would actually barely hear it.

So don't look any further. The landing pads do not change the downstroke sound. The filling inside the case does.

You're near Paris? Because I totally want to make you mod my 55g one day.  8)

I'm in France, but a little bit farther than you may guess. I'm in Guadeloupe! :)

But come on, the mod is not that hard. I need to find time to make a guide. Then just follow it. You'll see, the mod feels much better when you do it yourself! :)

Have a look at my FC660C silencing mod if you want to get an idea. And maybe you should order soft landing pads from EK right now (the black ones) so you are ready when I post my guide.

Offline Cafeine

  • Posts: 107
  • Location: Paris / France
    • GeekZone
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #181 on: Thu, 24 October 2013, 21:54:31 »
You lucky bastard :D  I'm often in La Reunion to see friends though and planning to move in Indonesia but it's NOVEMBER SOON, the dreaded month here in Paris.  -_-;

Well, you're right for the mod, I will do it myself. AS SOON AS YOU WRITE THE GUIDE. ;)  I "only" have a 88UB 45g FR atm, I'm "working" to get the 55g ANSI, need to wake up my proxy in Seoul to get it from Leopold. :x  I'm stupid so I'll also get the HHKB Type-S because, WHY NOT. And sell all the MX boards I will never touch again...
Own : HHKB Type-S | Leopold FC660C (x2 - 1st Gen & 2014 silenced) | RealForce 87U TKL (55g uniform) | RF 23U | Minila Air MX Blue
Sold : RealForce 88UB 45g | Leopold FC660M (MX Clear) | Filco MJ2 TKL (MX Brown) |  KeyCool 84 (MX Black) | CodeKeyboard TKL (MX Clear)

Offline goobus

  • HHKB Elite
  • Posts: 179
  • Location: Hong Kong
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #182 on: Thu, 24 October 2013, 23:02:20 »
You lucky bastard :D  I'm often in La Reunion to see friends though and planning to move in Indonesia but it's NOVEMBER SOON, the dreaded month here in Paris.  -_-;

Well, you're right for the mod, I will do it myself. AS SOON AS YOU WRITE THE GUIDE. ;)  I "only" have a 88UB 45g FR atm, I'm "working" to get the 55g ANSI, need to wake up my proxy in Seoul to get it from Leopold. :x  I'm stupid so I'll also get the HHKB Type-S because, WHY NOT. And sell all the MX boards I will never touch again...

Hahaha. Exactly what I was thinking. With a 55g RF and HHKB type S, I don't think I'll need any other topre boards...maybe except the FC660C... Let's not go there.  But then again, WHY NOT

Offline Emospence

  • Posts: 316
  • Location: Singapore
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #183 on: Fri, 25 October 2013, 01:29:30 »
Hahaha. Exactly what I was thinking. With a 55g RF and HHKB type S, I don't think I'll need any other topre boards...maybe except the FC660C... Let's not go there.  But then again, WHY NOT

Exactly what I was thinking. Although I'd prefer to have 2 of my favourite so I don't have to constantly adjust to a different layout..
Keyboards: Topre Realforce 87UW 55g x 2
Mice: Zowie EC1 eVo CL x 2
Mousepads: Artisan Hien VE x 2, Razer Mantis Speed

Offline esoomenona

  • Gnillort?
  • Posts: 5323
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #184 on: Fri, 25 October 2013, 09:53:35 »
I'm going to resist Topre now too, guys. It's the new cool thing to do.

Offline Moosecraft

  • HHKB Pro
  • Posts: 734
  • Location: Sweden
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #185 on: Fri, 25 October 2013, 11:08:59 »
I must be lame then since I just bought an HHKB  :'(
I am bigfatmc over at other places!

Offline Cafeine

  • Posts: 107
  • Location: Paris / France
    • GeekZone
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #186 on: Fri, 25 October 2013, 23:48:42 »
Hahaha. Exactly what I was thinking. With a 55g RF and HHKB type S, I don't think I'll need any other topre boards...maybe except the FC660C... Let's not go there.  But then again, WHY NOT

Exactly what I was thinking. Although I'd prefer to have 2 of my favourite so I don't have to constantly adjust to a different layout..

I had that thought but I'm using different models atm and adjusting is not that hard. 2 are always out (for my Gaming PC and for my Mac). But the truth is that I want to try the type-S AND the 55g to see if I fall in love with one, and get a second. :D  Almost did that for the 660C (love that board) but I need to check all the Topre. And I'll write reviews for work at the same time. #win :D
Own : HHKB Type-S | Leopold FC660C (x2 - 1st Gen & 2014 silenced) | RealForce 87U TKL (55g uniform) | RF 23U | Minila Air MX Blue
Sold : RealForce 88UB 45g | Leopold FC660M (MX Clear) | Filco MJ2 TKL (MX Brown) |  KeyCool 84 (MX Black) | CodeKeyboard TKL (MX Clear)

Offline tuxsavvy

  • Posts: 441
  • 白HHKBの魔法使い
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #187 on: Sat, 26 October 2013, 00:22:08 »
I must be lame then since I just bought an HHKB  :'(

I can't personally imagine buying HHKB would be lame, it all really boils down to one's preferences. Just because people are resisting to buy Apple products doesn't mean that if you bought a Apple product you are lame for instance. :p

Also if you're going that far by declaring lameness with HHKB, I must be extra lame for buying HHKB at the wrong time of the year:
- Where the prices are at its peak as Hasu pointed out before.
- Where I didn't realise there was a proxy service in which I could have saved almost $100 bucks but instead went through Ebay.
- Where Type-S costs a heck a lot more over d-i-y HHKB silencing. Instead I chose to just get Type-S.
- (Last but not least) Where the JP model (that I've already bought, just waiting for delivery) doesn't exactly comply with standard US keyboard layout. For example some of the character inputs such as tilde and that squigly (~) key are mapped in two different places as opposed to it being on a single key in standard US keyboard layout.

I'd have lots more reasons then if that were the case to be lame.  :))

To be frank, I sort of have to go against those resisting Topre. HHKB is somewhat an exception and besides the fact that HHKB carries a hefty price tag, you are sort of buying a keyboard that has a reputation to back.  ;D Never forget that! These days I see there's a fair few Cherry MX keyboards (60% of course) featuring very similar to the layout of that found on HHKB. Whilst they look similar they are not completely identical. Heck there's even that hyper fuse offering HHKB key legends for those whom are looking to pimp their Cherry MX out to look like they have HHKB. Do remember that you got _the_ original, the rest are imitations.  ;)

N.B.: No pun intended to Apple fans and/or Hyper Fuse fans, it just sounds like someone here needs to learn the significance of what HHKB really is. Oh yeah, also to those whom are trying to resist Topre. :p Resistance is futile! lol.
HHKB Pro JP Type-S | Northgate Omnikey 101 | APC/"Clicker" F-21 (GOG3YL) | Cherry G80-5000 HAMDE

僕の日本語が下手です。我的中文也一樣爛。

Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
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  • Missed another sale.
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #188 on: Sat, 26 October 2013, 01:46:41 »
I have Apple products and HHKB, in fact sometimes I use HHKB on Apple Mac.

What does that make me?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline goobus

  • HHKB Elite
  • Posts: 179
  • Location: Hong Kong
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #189 on: Sat, 26 October 2013, 03:40:06 »
Resistance is futile...I just got a silent 87u, a FC660C and HHKB type S. When the 55g is in stock again I will buy that and mod it into a silent 55g with sexy purple sliders.

Offline Cafeine

  • Posts: 107
  • Location: Paris / France
    • GeekZone
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #190 on: Sat, 26 October 2013, 06:57:04 »
Resistance is futile...I just got a silent 87u, a FC660C and HHKB type S. When the 55g is in stock again I will buy that and mod it into a silent 55g with sexy purple sliders.


Sir, I like your style.    8)
Own : HHKB Type-S | Leopold FC660C (x2 - 1st Gen & 2014 silenced) | RealForce 87U TKL (55g uniform) | RF 23U | Minila Air MX Blue
Sold : RealForce 88UB 45g | Leopold FC660M (MX Clear) | Filco MJ2 TKL (MX Brown) |  KeyCool 84 (MX Black) | CodeKeyboard TKL (MX Clear)

Offline terran5992

  • Posts: 1485
  • Location: Singapore
  • One With The Cup Rubber
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #191 on: Sat, 26 October 2013, 07:16:48 »
Resistance is futile...I just got a silent 87u, a FC660C and HHKB type S. When the 55g is in stock again I will buy that and mod it into a silent 55g with sexy purple sliders.

One does not simply buy a topre keyboard

Listokei Custom  |  HHKB Pro 2  |  Topre Realforce 103UBH  |  Armageddon MKA-3


Offline SpAmRaY

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  • because reasons.......
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #192 on: Sat, 26 October 2013, 07:38:22 »
Resistance is futile...I just got a silent 87u, a FC660C and HHKB type S. When the 55g is in stock again I will buy that and mod it into a silent 55g with sexy purple sliders.

One does not simply buy a topre keyboard

I simply bought 3 :P

Offline terran5992

  • Posts: 1485
  • Location: Singapore
  • One With The Cup Rubber
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #193 on: Sat, 26 October 2013, 08:44:18 »
Resistance is futile...I just got a silent 87u, a FC660C and HHKB type S. When the 55g is in stock again I will buy that and mod it into a silent 55g with sexy purple sliders.

One does not simply buy a topre keyboard

I simply bought 3 :P

Expect for SpamRay , he can buy whatever he wants XD   :cool: :cool: :cool:

Listokei Custom  |  HHKB Pro 2  |  Topre Realforce 103UBH  |  Armageddon MKA-3


Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
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  • Missed another sale.
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #194 on: Sat, 26 October 2013, 18:02:05 »
Resistance is futile...I just got a silent 87u, a FC660C and HHKB type S. When the 55g is in stock again I will buy that and mod it into a silent 55g with sexy purple sliders.

One does not simply buy a topre keyboard

One can simply buy a Topre keyboard, because afterwards one won't have any money left to do anything else.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline frvrngn

  • Posts: 113
  • Location: Upstate, SC
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #195 on: Sat, 26 October 2013, 19:22:04 »
I tried the Type Heaven so my initial outlay wasn't too painful. Unfortunately I really like the switch so I definitely see more Topre in my future! Already eyeing a HHKB to add soon.
Currently using: Cherry G80-1800 Ergo Clears, HHKB Pro 2, RF 87U Silent

Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
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Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #196 on: Sat, 26 October 2013, 20:17:16 »
I tried the Type Heaven so my initial outlay wasn't too painful. Unfortunately I really like the switch so I definitely see more Topre in my future! Already eyeing a HHKB to add soon.

I'm eying my HHKB which is sitting over in the corner whilst I give my other boards a workout for a little while.

HHKB is a really nice keyboard - you shouldn't have any regrets if you get one (apart, possibly, from the lack of dedicated arrow keys).
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline frvrngn

  • Posts: 113
  • Location: Upstate, SC
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #197 on: Sat, 26 October 2013, 21:36:54 »
The lack of arrow keys does worry me a bit, well more than a bit as I use them often in my daily work. It's a lot of money to just give it a shot but I'm really intrigued by the layout. If I can't use it for work it would be fine for home use.
Currently using: Cherry G80-1800 Ergo Clears, HHKB Pro 2, RF 87U Silent

Offline Sniping

  • Posts: 861
  • Location: California
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #198 on: Sat, 26 October 2013, 22:02:45 »
The lack of arrow keys does worry me a bit, well more than a bit as I use them often in my daily work. It's a lot of money to just give it a shot but I'm really intrigued by the layout. If I can't use it for work it would be fine for home use.

You should get the FC660C if you need the arrow cluster.

Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
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  • Posts: 21175
  • Location: melbourne.vic.au
  • Missed another sale.
Re: must... resist... topre
« Reply #199 on: Sat, 26 October 2013, 22:11:36 »
The lack of arrow keys does worry me a bit, well more than a bit as I use them often in my daily work. It's a lot of money to just give it a shot but I'm really intrigued by the layout. If I can't use it for work it would be fine for home use.

You should get the FC660C if you need the arrow cluster.

This.

Some people have reported getting used to the Fn+something to get arrow key functionality from the HHKB, but maybe because I switch between layouts too often I haven't gotten used to it yet.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ