must... resist... topre

[keymaster]

Dental mod master race.

Everyone with an unsilenced Topre keyboard should do it. The unpleasing, high-pitched plastic sound on the upstroke is the only thing that turned me off at the beginning. The dental mod fixed all that. Now it actually sounds and feels like a luxury keyboard.

[unicomp_uc]

I rarely bottom out on a 55g. It's why I stopped using 45g completely. Not sure if that's the issue you are having, or what switch weight you are using.


But 55g is heavy enough that I can type comfortably without bottoming out. Also, the dental band mod would pretty much make bottoming much less of an impact
due to the rubber rings padding the contact. Not that everyone wants to do that mod, but it's really nice.

Interesting. I've read the opposite concerning bottoming out with Topre. Since the actuation point is at the very top, the heavier the switch, the more difficult it would be to stop your momentum, thus resulting in bottoming out more often.

I've never used 55g (only hhkb's 45g and the variable weight Realforce), so I can't offer my own comparison.

[dustinhxc]

Dental mod master race.

Everyone with an unsilenced Topre keyboard should do it. The unpleasing, high-pitched plastic sound on the upstroke is the only thing that turned me off at the beginning. The dental mod fixed all that. Now it actually sounds and feels like a luxury keyboard.

I have dental bands coming in the mail right now!

[Polymer]

I rarely bottom out on a 55g. It's why I stopped using 45g completely. Not sure if that's the issue you are having, or what switch weight you are using.


But 55g is heavy enough that I can type comfortably without bottoming out. Also, the dental band mod would pretty much make bottoming much less of an impact
due to the rubber rings padding the contact. Not that everyone wants to do that mod, but it's really nice.

Interesting. I've read the opposite concerning bottoming out with Topre. Since the actuation point is at the very top, the heavier the switch, the more difficult it would be to stop your momentum, thus resulting in bottoming out more often.

I've never used 55g (only hhkb's 45g and the variable weight Realforce), so I can't offer my own comparison.

Yes, it is actually easier to not bottom out on lighter Topre IMO...eg.  30g Topre it is easy to not bottom out...55g I think is basically not possible...I think people feel like they're not bottoming out hard but they are bottoming out...it is really quite difficult not to. 

I thought all of the mods only helps on the upstroke not the downstroke?  The only thing it seems to do it shorten the travel which maybe gets close to the point where you're somewhat past some of the bump and you're that much closer to actuation so you can tap the key and it works?  Not sure as I haven't used a modded silent Topre only the Type-S...

[SpAmRaY]

Dental mod master race.

Everyone with an unsilenced Topre keyboard should do it. The unpleasing, high-pitched plastic sound on the upstroke is the only thing that turned me off at the beginning. The dental mod fixed all that. Now it actually sounds and feels like a luxury keyboard.

Did you ever get the other set of dental bands to compare?

[Michael]

I rarely bottom out on a 55g. It's why I stopped using 45g completely. Not sure if that's the issue you are having, or what switch weight you are using.


But 55g is heavy enough that I can type comfortably without bottoming out. Also, the dental band mod would pretty much make bottoming much less of an impact
due to the rubber rings padding the contact. Not that everyone wants to do that mod, but it's really nice.

Interesting. I've read the opposite concerning bottoming out with Topre. Since the actuation point is at the very top, the heavier the switch, the more difficult it would be to stop your momentum, thus resulting in bottoming out more often.

I've never used 55g (only hhkb's 45g and the variable weight Realforce), so I can't offer my own comparison.

Yes, it is actually easier to not bottom out on lighter Topre IMO...eg.  30g Topre it is easy to not bottom out...55g I think is basically not possible...I think people feel like they're not bottoming out hard but they are bottoming out...it is really quite difficult not to. 

I thought all of the mods only helps on the upstroke not the downstroke?  The only thing it seems to do it shorten the travel which maybe gets close to the point where you're somewhat past some of the bump and you're that much closer to actuation so you can tap the key and it works?  Not sure as I haven't used a modded silent Topre only the Type-S...

I think logically, the stiffer the rubber, the harder it would be to depress. So you get more resistance to pushing it down to the point of actuation. At least that is what it feels like to me. Because I may bottom out,
but it's hardly noticeable or painful. The dental bands do two things; shorten the throw, and pad the landing. So perhaps actuation may be happening earlier. Although I don't think that is the case. If I am not mistaken,
the actuation capacitance is a pre-determined distance, is it not?

[keymaster]

Dental mod master race.

Everyone with an unsilenced Topre keyboard should do it. The unpleasing, high-pitched plastic sound on the upstroke is the only thing that turned me off at the beginning. The dental mod fixed all that. Now it actually sounds and feels like a luxury keyboard.

Did you ever get the other set of dental bands to compare?

I got them in the mail yesterday. Now, I just need to find about 2 hours to sit down and do the swap. I'll post in the dental mod thread with the results.

[Belfong]

Bro caps, having not used a dental caps myself, I wonder if it has any effect on the sound? One of the attraction of the HHKB to me is the thock sound. If the dental caps is going to mute it, then it is pointless for me, no matter how it helps softening the blow.

[keymaster]

Bro caps, having not used a dental caps myself, I wonder if it has any effect on the sound? One of the attraction of the HHKB to me is the thock sound. If the dental caps is going to mute it, then it is pointless for me, no matter how it helps softening the blow.

This is a common question/assumption. The dental mod does NOT mute the 'thock sound'. The dental mod only mutes the high-pitched plastic sound on the UPSTROKE. Thus, a smooth, silent thock is all there is to hear.

[dustinhxc]

Bro caps, having not used a dental caps myself, I wonder if it has any effect on the sound? One of the attraction of the HHKB to me is the thock sound. If the dental caps is going to mute it, then it is pointless for me, no matter how it helps softening the blow.

This is a common question/assumption. The dental mod does NOT mute the 'thock sound'. The dental mod only mutes the high-pitched plastic sound on the UPSTROKE. Thus, a smooth, silent thock is all there is to hear.

That sounds great, cant wait to put mine on.

[Belfong]

W00t.. I'll have to get them. Any standard dental tabs will do, right?

[reziak]

Dental mod master race.

Everyone with an unsilenced Topre keyboard should do it. The unpleasing, high-pitched plastic sound on the upstroke is the only thing that turned me off at the beginning. The dental mod fixed all that. Now it actually sounds and feels like a luxury keyboard.

I'm glad to know that my keyboard isn't that only one that makes that high pitched plastic sound - Might give it a try!

[keymaster]

W00t.. I'll have to get them. Any standard dental tabs will do, right?

These are the ones that have been recommended. They are 'medium' and are what I currently have installed on my 55g. I'll be swapping them out with the 'light' ones to see if there's any noticeable difference.

[Polymer]

I think logically, the stiffer the rubber, the harder it would be to depress. So you get more resistance to pushing it down to the point of actuation. At least that is what it feels like to me. Because I may bottom out,
but it's hardly noticeable or painful. The dental bands do two things; shorten the throw, and pad the landing. So perhaps actuation may be happening earlier. Although I don't think that is the case. If I am not mistaken,
the actuation capacitance is a pre-determined distance, is it not?

The point of actuation is after the drop off so the stiffer the rubber, the more force you need to press it which means the drop off will feel a bit more dramatic, and you won't be able to stop yourself.  It isn't like clears where it suddenly ramps up near the end which can help you from bottoming out.  The force you need to overcome the bump is greater than anything after the dome collapses....30g which take barely any pressing at all, you can lightly push and it'll tip over the bump and actuate the switches. 

As far as the mod..Maybe I'm confusing the mod but the mods I've seen all go between the plunger and the TOP part of what holds the switch.  This means that the switch is already slightly depressed compared to stock..it means you're slightly closer to actuation than stock.  O-rings on MX impact the BOTTOM of the throw..so they shorten the throw but the actuation point compared to start is still the same...The mods on Topre are basically the reverse of an o-ring on a Cherry MX.  What I'm saying is that the mod might make it easier to not bottom as you might already be at or beyond the high point in the force curve (I don't know I haven't tried a modded one..only a real Type-S). 

[swill]

it seems that nobody here besides me has finger pain issues with topre?

When I bottom out on Topre it really hurts my hand. I don't really understand it.

I think this is what is happening to me too. I don't feel like it is the key press as much as the bottom out that causes the soreness.

[iri]

i use uniform 45g realforce. i do touch type (what difference does it make?).

on finger pain.
in my case it's not the bottoming out impact. it's too little springback force. after typing on topre for two weeks my hands were so bad i felt the same pain on reds and bs (those are the switches with weak springback too). to be honest, i even feel that strong bottoming out gives me some relief.
all this is weird as i've been using rubber domes extensively for years with no issues. maybe it's the actuation force that makes the difference? 45g topre is very light compared to other rubber domes (actually i feel it's a bit too light for me).

on shortening the travel: it's actually very easy to do on a realforce board. put something on board surface where keycap edges hit it. like here.

p.s. and someone not bottoming out on a 55g topre seems to be a truly unique person.

p.p.s. and i like the upstroke thock!

[Polymer]

I dunno, 45g Topre seems pretty comparable to a lot of rubber domes as far as necessary force and snap back..they actually seem a bit snappier to me but I guess everyone's experience will be different.

And I agree, 55g Topre and not bottoming out...it is hard to believe to be honest..

[iri]

i just compared my realforce to a logitech k200. the latter's keys are much harder to actuate.

[Belfong]

W00t.. I'll have to get them. Any standard dental tabs will do, right?

These are the ones that have been recommended. They are 'medium' and are what I currently have installed on my 55g. I'll be swapping them out with the 'light' ones to see if there's any noticeable difference.

Looking at this YouTube, I kinda like the sound BEFORE the dental mods.

[Michael]

I dunno, 45g Topre seems pretty comparable to a lot of rubber domes as far as necessary force and snap back..they actually seem a bit snappier to me but I guess everyone's experience will be different.

And I agree, 55g Topre and not bottoming out...it is hard to believe to be honest..

That may be so on an unmodified board, but I do understand when and if I am bottoming out. It may be the dental bands, but as I sit here and purposely bottom out, versus type normally, it's barely noticeable.
I can feel the collapse of the dome and know when it actuates, and it happens with barely a bit of pressure. So I would say maybe 3/4 of the way on the downward travel.


Really hard to explain, though. I definitely bottomed out (or at least felt it more) on the unmodified 55g.

[terran5992]

I dunno, 45g Topre seems pretty comparable to a lot of rubber domes as far as necessary force and snap back..they actually seem a bit snappier to me but I guess everyone's experience will be different.

And I agree, 55g Topre and not bottoming out...it is hard to believe to be honest..

That may be so on an unmodified board, but I do understand when and if I am bottoming out. It may be the dental bands, but as I sit here and purposely bottom out, versus type normally, it's barely noticeable.
I can feel the collapse of the dome and know when it actuates, and it happens with barely a bit of pressure. So I would say maybe 3/4 of the way on the downward travel.


Really hard to explain, though. I definitely bottomed out (or at least felt it more) on the unmodified 55g.

0.o How do you modify a topre?

[Air tree]

Dental mod master race.

Everyone with an unsilenced Topre keyboard should do it. The unpleasing, high-pitched plastic sound on the upstroke is the only thing that turned me off at the beginning. The dental mod fixed all that. Now it actually sounds and feels like a luxury keyboard.

If i do go with a 87u 55g over an ergodox i'm going to use the landing pad method, I like it a little bit more than the dental band mod.

[Polymer]

I dunno, 45g Topre seems pretty comparable to a lot of rubber domes as far as necessary force and snap back..they actually seem a bit snappier to me but I guess everyone's experience will be different.

And I agree, 55g Topre and not bottoming out...it is hard to believe to be honest..

That may be so on an unmodified board, but I do understand when and if I am bottoming out. It may be the dental bands, but as I sit here and purposely bottom out, versus type normally, it's barely noticeable.
I can feel the collapse of the dome and know when it actuates, and it happens with barely a bit of pressure. So I would say maybe 3/4 of the way on the downward travel.


Really hard to explain, though. I definitely bottomed out (or at least felt it more) on the unmodified 55g.

Yeap..I can see that being the case..with the modified you're already a good fraction on that bump...not sure how much of a difference in travel that it is making but yours it might be way down there already....

Unmodified it just seems really really difficult...unless you type really slow and w/ your finger pads rather than finger tips (which I've seen on a video by a keyboard enthusiast and it made me laugh). 

[Valis]

This is a common question/assumption. The dental mod does NOT mute the 'thock sound'. The dental mod only mutes the high-pitched plastic sound on the UPSTROKE. Thus, a smooth, silent thock is all there is to hear.

Do you know if this helps with the sound of the large keys? My caps lock, right shift, and backspace keys sound very different than the smaller keys; they have this sort of extra "springy" sound (possibly due to the light domes on 88UB variable on those keys, and the extra stabilizers). 

[iri]

i just made an insane topre mod, by the way. i disassembled the board, measured one conic spring height, took a mx red spring, cut it to the conic spring height, put it under the conic spring so it simply stands on the pcb and assembled the board back. all this under the "print screen" key. it works. now i have the first official capacitive mechanical cherrytopre board! feels like mx black lol

[SpAmRaY]

i just made an insane topre mod, by the way. i disassembled the board, measured one conic spring height, took a mx red spring, cut it to the conic spring height, put it under the conic spring so it simply stands on the pcb and assembled the board back. all this under the "print screen" key. it works. now i have the first official capacitive mechanical cherrytopre board! feels like mx black lol

[spiceBar]

Dental mod master race.

Everyone with an unsilenced Topre keyboard should do it. The unpleasing, high-pitched plastic sound on the upstroke is the only thing that turned me off at the beginning. The dental mod fixed all that. Now it actually sounds and feels like a luxury keyboard.

Exactly!!!
  http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49046.msg1056220#msg1056220

[keymaster]

This is a common question/assumption. The dental mod does NOT mute the 'thock sound'. The dental mod only mutes the high-pitched plastic sound on the UPSTROKE. Thus, a smooth, silent thock is all there is to hear.

Do you know if this helps with the sound of the large keys? My caps lock, right shift, and backspace keys sound very different than the smaller keys; they have this sort of extra "springy" sound (possibly due to the light domes on 88UB variable on those keys, and the extra stabilizers).

It helps a little, but that "springy" sound is from the rattle by the stabilizer. You'll have to lubricate the stabilizer where it meets the other parts of the keyboard.

[Valis]

It helps a little, but that "springy" sound is from the rattle by the stabilizer. You'll have to lubricate the stabilizer where it meets the other parts of the keyboard.

OK thanks, it's not a major annoyance, so I'll see when I'll get around to it.

[spiceBar]

W00t.. I'll have to get them. Any standard dental tabs will do, right?

These are the ones that have been recommended. They are 'medium' and are what I currently have installed on my 55g. I'll be swapping them out with the 'light' ones to see if there's any noticeable difference.

Looking at this YouTube, I kinda like the sound BEFORE the dental mods.

His silenced key is lousy I think. This YouTube video is definitely NOT a good example.

Look (and listen) at this, it's silenced using soft landing pads instead of rubber bands, but it's the same principle. The top two rows of the keyboard are silenced, the rest is not. You get "Thock" on bottoming out AND on the upstroke!
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/Silenced_FC660C.mp4

Silenced Realforce 87U (using landing pads) vs standard one. Identical models, one keyboard has the mod, the other one has not:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF87_silenced_before_after.mp4

[Mr. C]

This is a common question/assumption. The dental mod does NOT mute the 'thock sound'. The dental mod only mutes the high-pitched plastic sound on the UPSTROKE. Thus, a smooth, silent thock is all there is to hear.

Do you know if this helps with the sound of the large keys? My caps lock, right shift, and backspace keys sound very different than the smaller keys; they have this sort of extra "springy" sound (possibly due to the light domes on 88UB variable on those keys, and the extra stabilizers).

It helps a little, but that "springy" sound is from the rattle by the stabilizer. You'll have to lubricate the stabilizer where it meets the other parts of the keyboard.

That space bar pting is a major annoyance on my RealForce 87UB 45G. The space bar sounds horrible. I am going to lube the stabilizer and put either EK black soft-landing pads or dental bands on it.  I've ordered both. Now which gets rid of pting and leaves most of the thock? Where do I need to put them? I hope to get rid of the metallic clank of the space bar so I can enjoy the cloud of boobs.

My Leopold FC660C doesn't annoy me at all. Except for it's layout. I wish it were a TKL layout then I wouldn't have a RealForce.  ;-)

[spiceBar]

This is a common question/assumption. The dental mod does NOT mute the 'thock sound'. The dental mod only mutes the high-pitched plastic sound on the UPSTROKE. Thus, a smooth, silent thock is all there is to hear.

Do you know if this helps with the sound of the large keys? My caps lock, right shift, and backspace keys sound very different than the smaller keys; they have this sort of extra "springy" sound (possibly due to the light domes on 88UB variable on those keys, and the extra stabilizers).

It helps a little, but that "springy" sound is from the rattle by the stabilizer. You'll have to lubricate the stabilizer where it meets the other parts of the keyboard.

That space bar pting is a major annoyance on my RealForce 87UB 45G. The space bar sounds horrible. I am going to lube the stabilizer and put either EK black soft-landing pads or dental bands on it.  I've ordered both. Now which gets rid of pting and leaves most of the thock? Where do I need to put them? I hope to get rid of the metallic clank of the space bar so I can enjoy the cloud of boobs.

My Leopold FC660C doesn't annoy me at all. Except for it's layout. I wish it were a TKL layout then I wouldn't have a RealForce.  ;-)

The space bars on my Realforce are totally silent (I have three Realforce).

The silencing mod I describe here:
  http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49046.msg1056220#msg1056220
makes the space bar totally silent.

In this video:
  http://www.chesstiger.com/images/keyboards/RF87_silenced_before_after.mp4
you can hear the difference of a non-silenced Realforce and and a silenced one (guess which one has been silenced). You can also hear that the space bar does not make any noise on the silenced one, no matter how you press it.

The problem with silencing only the space bar is that you are going to disassemble the keyboard (many screws) just for one key. While you are at it, you should do the whole board.

[Air tree]

Has anyone heard a sound test of the HHKB with the Soft landing pad method? Since it's case mounted i would very much like to hear how it sounds with the mod compared to the type s or just the regular version.

Stock it sounds the best of all the topre keyboards to be honest.