How do you feel about auction threads?

[hashbaz]

Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.

What in the hell ... sorry who are you?  These are fighting words.

Unless you're intentionally trollceptioning, trolling by means of troll accusations.  In which case, bravo.

[IPT]

i said i don't agree with his actions, why wouldn't he be considered a troll if he's going to be blasting people in threads?
Is TP not trolling when he goes on his Ergodox rants?

I specifically said if he was going to act like that, i don't see how he's any better than those trolls.  Yeah his hearts in the right place, but the method of execution is wrong.

I like how its a gangup now because i disagree with his method, and somehow im trying to protect myself and my profits lol.

I don't really think TP is a troll.  He obviously is very passionate about eDox.  Nothing wrong with that.

i doubt he even owns one....people have asked him to show the eDox, i don't think he has.
Also he was bringing up the eDox in every thread lol.

[IPT]

Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.

What in the hell ... sorry who are you?  These are fighting words.

Unless you're intentionally trollceptioning, trolling by means of troll accusations.  In which case, bravo.

i dont get it, how are his claims that he will belittle and berate and keep posting in topics/classified threads/etc to break down the "Greedy seller" and make him/her feel guilty not bullying or trolling?
and im but a minor member of GH, not very vocal, but apparently touched a nerve?

*Edit*
To clarify, i know how much JD does for GH, more than me def.

I just view the way he said he'd go around to berate and belittle those who are profiteering and "greedy" as disruptive as TP, MW and Ripster when they go off on their tangents.  Apparently bringing up TP/MW/Ripsters = someone's a troll
Look at that, we know they're trolls and yet they're still (well minus ripster) in the community
I was saying his actions are as disruptive as those people.

I also said i would follow the rules of the forums.  I don't believe in harassing to make a point.  So i would view harassment even in classified about profiteering and what not as disruptive as TP going on and on about eDox or ripster back in the days posting a bunch of gifs.

[Melvang]

Alright guys this thread is going the wring direction very quickly.

[Pacifist]

Back on topic, if we let people post ebay auctions but explicitly say its their ebay auction, then people won't have purely GH auctions with all the problems.

There will still be auctions but different

[SpAmRaY]

Back on topic, if we let people post ebay auctions but explicitly say its their ebay auction, then people won't have purely GH auctions with all the problems.

There will still be auctions but different

Assuming GH bans on site auctions, just letting people post ebay auctions alone won't help anything.

[IPT]

Back on topic, if we let people post ebay auctions but explicitly say its their ebay auction, then people won't have purely GH auctions.

problem will still occur, there will be discussions about the ebay topics either in the thread or someone would make one in offtopic or what not.
I dunno, i'd go with a straight no auction policy similar to how EVGA/HForums/OCN does it.
Don't even link personal ebay links, if its like Buy.com or something dealing through ebay, sure put that in the great finds if its a good deal.
But personal ebay auctions?  i wouldn't even bring them up here.

*Edit*
Leaving work! going home, will check back to see how much more jimmies i rustled when I get home lol

[hashbaz]

I feel like moving auctions to ebay is important simply to help prevent abuse.  Even if that's all we did and prices/jimmies didn't change, I think it would be worthwhile.

[Melvang]

What about creating a sub forum in the classifieds thread for posting eBay auctions and just have all comments locked?  This with banning all local auctions I feel would be the best bet.  If we just straight ban auctions the ones that really want to do an auction to maximize profits will just go somewhere else.   If the comments are blocked for links to peoples personal auctions from eBay than we eliminate/greatly reduce the frequency of trolling/bullying people to reduce prices that others may not agree with.  If someone has an issue with a particular item they can send a pm via eBay. 

[SpAmRaY]

What about creating a sub forum in the classifieds thread for posting eBay auctions and just have all comments locked?  This with banning all local auctions I feel would be the best bet.  If we just straight ban auctions the ones that really want to do an auction to maximize profits will just go somewhere else.   If the comments are blocked for links to peoples personal auctions from eBay than we eliminate/greatly reduce the frequency of trolling/bullying people to reduce prices that others may not agree with.  If someone has an issue with a particular item they can send a pm via eBay. 

^^ This plus a subforum dedicated to clack trades/sales to keep them out of the regular classifieds.

[Melvang]

What about creating a sub forum in the classifieds thread for posting eBay auctions and just have all comments locked?  This with banning all local auctions I feel would be the best bet.  If we just straight ban auctions the ones that really want to do an auction to maximize profits will just go somewhere else.   If the comments are blocked for links to peoples personal auctions from eBay than we eliminate/greatly reduce the frequency of trolling/bullying people to reduce prices that others may not agree with.  If someone has an issue with a particular item they can send a pm via eBay. 

^^ This plus a subforum dedicated to clack trades/sales to keep them out of the regular classifieds.

I wouldn't be opposed to this either.

[SpAmRaY]

Any thoughts on changing access to selling/buying? Like being a member for so long plus post count and/or adding the requirement items have to be on hand to have a sell thread, plus having username/date/photo as part of any sale thread?

Might as well do it right.

[Pacifist]

That sounds good, removing GH auctions and letting people put ebay auctions in a special subforum where there are no comments. If someone has questions, PM or ebay questions would work.

There would be no threadcrap or b*tching. It won't diffuse high clack prices, but people selling clacks would go somewhere else to sell their clacks anyways, and I remember people linking ebay auctions before (not their own ones, and ended ones) of other people putting CCs on ebay to sell, so people will find a place to sell CCs and other stuff

[keymaster]

Can we hear a little from the moderators now? As some have already mentioned, I think that banning auctions alone won't solve much.

The buying/selling culture has to begin to change. If the moderators come to an agreement that overpricing items has overall negative effects on the community, then the moderators should do their part in socializing the community in a top-down fashion. Forum rules should indicate that conscious overpricing of items should be forbidden, or at the very least, looked down-upon and subject to criticism from the community.

[jinxedx84]

Can we hear a little from the moderators now? As some have already mentioned, I think that banning auctions alone won't solve much.

The buying/selling culture has to begin to change. If the moderators come to an agreement that overpricing items has overall negative effects on the community, then the moderators should do their part in socializing the community in a top-down fashion. Forum rules should indicate that conscious overpricing of items should be forbidden, or at the very least, looked down-upon and subject to criticism from the community.

You cannot limit over pricing. If someone want to get an astronomical price for their CC and another is willing to pay it who are we to stop them? I am by no mean condoning high prices and ridiculous auctions, just saying

[jdcarpe]

who are we to stop them?

Have you not been following the thread? We are the members of this forum! We will stop them! You have the power! Refuse to pay such ridiculous prices, for a start. Convince other to do the same.

[CPTBadAss]

Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.

i said i don't agree with his actions, why wouldn't he be considered a troll if he's going to be blasting people in threads?
Is TP not trolling when he goes on his Ergodox rants?

I like how its a gangup now because i disagree with his method, and somehow im trying to protect myself and my profits lol.

i dont get it, how are his claims that he will belittle and berate and keep posting in topics/classified threads/etc to break down the "Greedy seller" and make him/her feel guilty not bullying or trolling?
and im but a minor member of GH, not very vocal, but apparently touched a nerve?

*Edit*
To clarify, i know how much JD does for GH, more than me def.

I just view the way he said he'd go around to berate and belittle those who are profiteering and "greedy" as disruptive as TP, MW and Ripster when they go off on their tangents.  Apparently bringing up TP/MW/Ripsters = someone's a troll
Look at that, we know they're trolls and yet they're still (well minus ripster) in the community
I was saying his actions are as disruptive as those people.

I also said i would follow the rules of the forums.  I don't believe in harassing to make a point.  So i would view harassment even in classified about profiteering and what not as disruptive as TP going on and on about eDox or ripster back in the days posting a bunch of gifs.

I'm going to say this and move on. I said what I said because you couldn't hold an argument without resorting to name calling and a personal attacks. "YOU ARE" is saying something personal yes? Discussing methods with theoretical people and claiming things is not personal. Just because you disagree with him doesn't mean you get to make personal attacks. Has JD ever called you a name here? Don't think so.

And don't martyr yourself. It's just unbecoming. "I was ganged up on. I'm a minor GH member". Cut the ****. Argue and know that people are going to have differing opinions. That doesn't make them more right or wrong than you, just different.

[jinxedx84]

who are we to stop them?

Have you not been following the thread? We are the members of this forum! We will stop them! You have the power! Refuse to pay such ridiculous prices, for a start. Convince other to do the same.

You cant stop them? on this forum maybe...... but im pretty sure the majority of people on geekhack also browse /r/mechmarket,  So you can get them off this forum but the sale and auctions will not stop.

[Krogenar]

I feel like moving auctions to ebay is important simply to help prevent abuse.  Even if that's all we did and prices/jimmies didn't change, I think it would be worthwhile.

I agree.

[SpAmRaY]

but im pretty sure the majority of people on geekhack also browse /r/mechmarket,

I believe that is backwards....

[jinxedx84]

then your lying to yourself Esoomenona even posted a WTB on /r/mechmarket.
http://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/1pyvm5/wtb_mx_gumrot/

[SpAmRaY]

then your lying to yourself Esoomenona even posted a WTB on /r/mechmarket.
http://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/1pyvm5/wtb_mx_gumrot/

Hmm ok, sorry, I'd never even heard of that place until you mentioned it. My mistake.

[tjcaustin]

then your lying to yourself Esoomenona even posted a WTB on /r/mechmarket.
http://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/1pyvm5/wtb_mx_gumrot/

Wow, one person posted a WTB in both areas, that proves that most everyone looks at both!

Or not.  I mean, I could say no one does because I don't and have literally the same strength of argument you have.

[Tym]

Only ever been on reddit twice, layout confused me

[jinxedx84]

then your lying to yourself Esoomenona even posted a WTB on /r/mechmarket.
http://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/1pyvm5/wtb_mx_gumrot/

Wow, one person posted a WTB in both areas, that proves that most everyone looks at both!

Or not.  I mean, I could say no one does because I don't and have literally the same strength of argument you have.

Please understand what i meant. If i were in the market to by something collectible why would i not use any and all methods to get said item?

[jinxedx84]

I was merely using it as an examples.

[MKULTRA]

Can we hear a little from the moderators now? As some have already mentioned, I think that banning auctions alone won't solve much.

The buying/selling culture has to begin to change. If the moderators come to an agreement that overpricing items has overall negative effects on the community, then the moderators should do their part in socializing the community in a top-down fashion. Forum rules should indicate that conscious overpricing of items should be forbidden, or at the very least, looked down-upon and subject to criticism from the community.

You cannot limit over pricing. If someone want to get an astronomical price for their CC and another is willing to pay it who are we to stop them? I am by no mean condoning high prices and ridiculous auctions, just saying

So you want to give mod's the power to tell people "you cannot sell your item here, it is priced too high"

Nothing could go wrong with that!  iMav has stated before that staff should take a hands off approach to the classifieds.  I don't really oppose moving auctions to eBay, but I don't really think that it is necessary.

[jinxedx84]

Can we hear a little from the moderators now? As some have already mentioned, I think that banning auctions alone won't solve much.

The buying/selling culture has to begin to change. If the moderators come to an agreement that overpricing items has overall negative effects on the community, then the moderators should do their part in socializing the community in a top-down fashion. Forum rules should indicate that conscious overpricing of items should be forbidden, or at the very least, looked down-upon and subject to criticism from the community.

You cannot limit over pricing. If someone want to get an astronomical price for their CC and another is willing to pay it who are we to stop them? I am by no mean condoning high prices and ridiculous auctions, just saying

So you want to give mod's the power to tell people "you cannot sell your item here, it is priced too high"

Nothing could go wrong with that!  iMav has stated before that staff should take a hands off approach to the classifieds.  I don't really oppose moving auctions to eBay, but I don't really think that it is necessary.

No not at all, I think people should ask any price they want for their item. Whether or not people will purchase it for that price. I think people should be able to do so without people crapping all over their thread because they think the price is too high.

[Danule]

But you know what you paid for it, can that not be your guide?

That is the problem though for both the actual old/rare stuff and the CC's that most of this discussion is about

If I sell something which is in high demand or rare for zero profit, there is a very good chance that the person I sell it to will end up reselling it (publicly or privately) for much much more.

Example: Lets say I put up an ad to sell my OG TRI CC to the 1st person who pm's me for $50. There is a much smaller number of people on here who would actually keep and appreciate it vs. those that who would instantly flip it for a nice profit on their end. Lets say its a 20%/80% split there of types of members, and I doubt its even that many percentage wise that would be on the keeping it side. So if there is an 80% chance of me selling it to someone else who will flip it and make $200-$250 profit why in the heck would I want to-do that? It still sold for an outrageous price in the end and someone else made all the profit for being the fastest at pm'ing. So basically the same thing that happens after the EK sales, except its the original seller here losing out instead of CC on the profit

The point i'm trying to make is that its too risky and stupid for a seller to blindly give a deal to someone when more likely than not its just going to get flipped.  CC might not care seeing people profit from the luck of the EK/4grabs sale. But I sure as hell don't want someone to make huge profits from me being nice and selling at a reasonable price....

That's when you call them out for it and make them feel like crap for doing it. Let everyone know what type of person they are to do it. Make sure no one wants to deal with that person. I would rather be here with the 20%, to use your example, and the other 80% can go take a flying leap.

My thoughts exactly.

[IPT]

Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.

i said i don't agree with his actions, why wouldn't he be considered a troll if he's going to be blasting people in threads?
Is TP not trolling when he goes on his Ergodox rants?

I like how its a gangup now because i disagree with his method, and somehow im trying to protect myself and my profits lol.

i dont get it, how are his claims that he will belittle and berate and keep posting in topics/classified threads/etc to break down the "Greedy seller" and make him/her feel guilty not bullying or trolling?
and im but a minor member of GH, not very vocal, but apparently touched a nerve?

*Edit*
To clarify, i know how much JD does for GH, more than me def.

I just view the way he said he'd go around to berate and belittle those who are profiteering and "greedy" as disruptive as TP, MW and Ripster when they go off on their tangents.  Apparently bringing up TP/MW/Ripsters = someone's a troll
Look at that, we know they're trolls and yet they're still (well minus ripster) in the community
I was saying his actions are as disruptive as those people.

I also said i would follow the rules of the forums.  I don't believe in harassing to make a point.  So i would view harassment even in classified about profiteering and what not as disruptive as TP going on and on about eDox or ripster back in the days posting a bunch of gifs.

I'm going to say this and move on. I said what I said because you couldn't hold an argument without resorting to name calling and a personal attacks. "YOU ARE" is saying something personal yes? Discussing methods with theoretical people and claiming things is not personal. Just because you disagree with him doesn't mean you get to make personal attacks. Has JD ever called you a name here? Don't think so.

And don't martyr yourself. It's just unbecoming. "I was ganged up on. I'm a minor GH member". Cut the ****. Argue and know that people are going to have differing opinions. That doesn't make them more right or wrong than you, just different.

what was the personal attack?
Explain this to me.  we can discuss this in PM more, but i don't see the personal attack
IMO, i said the way he's on a crusade is as disruptive as the known trolls of GH.
So by mentioning that he's disruptive in my opinion means im resorting to a personal attack on him?
Get off that

And martyring myself?  Did you just read all the comments?  You guys were the ones who insinuated i called him a troll.
then saying I somehow lost an argument (there really wasn't any argument, it was me stating my opinion)?

And I was answering hashbaz's comment by being cheeky.  But its true, i only wrote one review for the site, i've sold a few things on the forum, and i normally just make small comments about threads that interest me.

My posts in this thread i would like to think are an informative opinion, i've stated multiple times i agree to move auctions off of GH.  But i mean if you guys want to center in on one aspect, whatever.

Moving on as its on page 11 of this thread, any opinions from the mod team exactly what to try to implement?  Or will we just keep repeating/rehashing the same opinions

[demik]

Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.

* jdcarpe ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED

damn it, beat me to it  ; ;

[TheFlyingRaccoon]

I feel like moving auctions to ebay is important simply to help prevent abuse.  Even if that's all we did and prices/jimmies didn't change, I think it would be worthwhile.

I agree.

I second this movement.

[jcrouse]

As you can imagine, I like the auctions.  In reality, they build excitement and community activity, like it or not. In all honesty, I am not a real active member and don't participate in the community aspect as much as many but I do try to support members and the forum. That said, just remember that there are many sides to view things from and many people come here for various reasons and enjoy diffetent things, not necessarily for the same reasons you may be here.

I have always been of the free enterprise view and anyone can do whatever they want with their items. In my opinion, it is not the activity, an auction, that divides the community, but in fact, it is the constant whining and butthurt. Maybe the whiners need removed. Think about it, if $20 items were auctioned for $1000 and there was no whining, jelousy, envy, butthurt, call it whay you want, but instead, joy for the new owner, would there be an issue? I am guessing not. I don't want to call people out and respect the views of others. There are many here against auctions and I will adk this, if I auction a $20 item for $1000 how does it honestly negatively effect you. It should have no effect on you, yourself. You are just tired of the *****ing. Maybe those individual need to grow up and reexamine their perspectivrs. If there was no *****ing there would be no problem.

John

[nubbinator]

If ClickClack himself was the one to auction them off, I would have no issue with it.  I think it's great when artists see returns on their work like that.

I have a huge problem though when people decide to exploit an artist's generosity.  When an artist decides to keep their prices lower and more accessible to people, it's great; however, when people decide to take that generosity and exploit it for their own financial gain, that's reprehensible.

Think back to the Tickle Me Elmo fiasco.  It was the toy to get for kids that year.  As such, it sold out.  There were people, however, who saw that it was the toy to get and bought the entire stock from stores, then turned around and sold them for massive markups.  I don't know anyone who wouldn't call them scumbags for doing that.

That's exactly what Clack auctions have turned into.  It's people who know that something is sought after and valued by people getting it cheap or at a decent price and turning around and selling it for a ridiculous amount.  Yes, it's not purely the fault of the sellers because there are people who will pay that much, but it is a problem nonetheless.

[Neebio]

I skimmed through a bit of the thread, and I thought I'd add my two cents.

There seems to be a whole lot of idealism going on here.  I think there are some who need to step back and think about things realistically.
There are people who want to buy and sell things related to keyboards (or just other cool stuff).  Sellers will want to make a reasonable return on the sale, and buyers will want to snag an item for the least amount they can.  New things in high demand are going to cost more, ie clacks.  This is supply and demand.  Clacks have a low supply pretty much all around, and since for whatever reason people seem to freaking love them, their demand is high.  Guess what happens to the price when you have low supply and high demand?  Price goes up.  Sure this isn't ideal, but it's reality.

Getting back to auctions, do they belong? Maybe.  I personally think auctions are a perfectly fine way to sell something.  It can benefit both the seller and buyer, for various reasons that have surely been outlined already.  I feel the only issue is the quality and setup of an auction, which is completely a result of the seller.  A good seller who sets up an auction with clearly defined rules and stays on top of the auction to handle it is fine by me.  A bad seller who sets up abusable or just plain bad rules for the auction is going to have a bad time.  Also, I think it should go without saying that if you don't like somebody's auction, don't bid.  It's that simple.  Along the same lines, somebody's auction thread is not the place to complain about the auction.

Having auctions on ebay is great, but I feel a primary reason that people want to hold auctions in threads here is visibility.  With an ebay auction, no thread is bumped, and chances are people will only see your auction once or twice, unless they're actively bidding in it.  Here, when a bid is made by way of a reply to a thread, it pops the visibility up to 11.  But of course this causes problems like forcing down other threads in the classifieds.  There is however an easy fix for this: Have an auctions subforum, separate from classifieds.

Good things can also be done with google forms, or maybe if some enterprising individual wants to set up a bidding service, we could see some really cool auctions.  Classical auctions have issues, like sniping (yes it's an issue in my opinion), so having a bidding system that can be configured to do interesting things could lead to some good auctions happening.  From my minecrafting days, I've seen a couple auction methods implemented on servers to buy in-game loot, each with its own positives and negatives.  I've seen, for instance, an auction system where you place hidden bids, and if you bid higher, you become the bid leader and the second highest bid is announced, but if you bid lower, you are informed that you are not the highest bidder.  However, the winner of the auction only pays an amount equal to the second highest bid.  The idea is that you bid the most you are willing to pay, and then any bid lower than yours will raise the amount you would pay if you won.

TL;DR: Auctions are cool and useful, but should probably have their own sub-forum.  Users should be able to leverage a variety of auctioning methods based on the auction they want to run. Ex: ebay, google forms silent auction, etc.  If you don't like somebody's auction, you don't have to bid.

[Polymer]

As you can imagine, I like the auctions.  In reality, they build excitement and community activity, like it or not. In all honesty, I am not a real active member and don't participate in the community aspect as much as many but I do try to support members and the forum. That said, just remember that there are many sides to view things from and many people come here for various reasons and enjoy diffetent things, not necessarily for the same reasons you may be here.

I have always been of the free enterprise view and anyone can do whatever they want with their items. In my opinion, it is not the activity, an auction, that divides the community, but in fact, it is the constant whining and butthurt. Maybe the whiners need removed. Think about it, if $20 items were auctioned for $1000 and there was no whining, jelousy, envy, butthurt, call it whay you want, but instead, joy for the new owner, would there be an issue? I am guessing not. I don't want to call people out and respect the views of others. There are many here against auctions and I will adk this, if I auction a $20 item for $1000 how does it honestly negatively effect you. It should have no effect on you, yourself. You are just tired of the *****ing. Maybe those individual need to grow up and reexamine their perspectivrs. If there was no *****ing there would be no problem.

John

This would be fine if the entity creating/selling the Clacks was selling them at whatever price they could get..completely free market..

But what we have here is someone that is keeping the prices low because he wants the community to share in the enjoyment.  Based on what they sell for here he could easily sell them for significantly more and people would still buy them.  He keeps prices low so the people that want to enjoy them can enjoy them without really hurting their wallet.

What ends up happening is people then end up making money off his back...You have people trying to buy them, not for their enjoyment, but so they can flip them immediately.  The intent of keeping the prices low so the community can enjoy them instead turns into people trying to get them to try to make money off of someone else's work.

I have no issues with sales, auctions, etc..per se...I think other than shill bidding, auctions aren't a big deal...but it is pretty sad to see people flip clacks right away...They've basically taken someone's goodwill and turned it on its head..it is going to happen in situations like this.  People aren't stupid, they'll buy a 100 dollar bill for 25 dollars...but at the same time, the community itself should not facilitate that behavior..take it somewhere else..

[Melvang]

As you can imagine, I like the auctions.  In reality, they build excitement and community activity, like it or not. In all honesty, I am not a real active member and don't participate in the community aspect as much as many but I do try to support members and the forum. That said, just remember that there are many sides to view things from and many people come here for various reasons and enjoy diffetent things, not necessarily for the same reasons you may be here.

I have always been of the free enterprise view and anyone can do whatever they want with their items. In my opinion, it is not the activity, an auction, that divides the community, but in fact, it is the constant whining and butthurt. Maybe the whiners need removed. Think about it, if $20 items were auctioned for $1000 and there was no whining, jelousy, envy, butthurt, call it whay you want, but instead, joy for the new owner, would there be an issue? I am guessing not. I don't want to call people out and respect the views of others. There are many here against auctions and I will adk this, if I auction a $20 item for $1000 how does it honestly negatively effect you. It should have no effect on you, yourself. You are just tired of the *****ing. Maybe those individual need to grow up and reexamine their perspectivrs. If there was no *****ing there would be no problem.

John

This would be fine if the entity selling the Clacks was selling them at whatever price they could get..completely free market..

But what we have here is someone that is keeping the prices low because he wants the community to share in the enjoyment.  Based on what they sell for here he could easily sell them for significantly more and people would still buy them.  He keeps prices low so the people that want to enjoy them can enjoy them without really hurting their wallet.

What ends up happening is people then end up making money off his back...You have people trying to buy them, not for their enjoyment, but so they can flip them immediately.  The intent of keeping the prices low so the community can enjoy them instead turns into people trying to get them to try to make money off of someone else's work.

I have no issues with sales, auctions, etc..per se...I think other than shill bidding, auctions aren't a big deal...but it is pretty sad to see people flip clacks right away...They've basically taken someone's goodwill and turned it on its head..it is going to happen in situations like this.  People aren't stupid, they'll buy a 100 dollar bill for 25 dollars...but at the same time, the community itself should not facilitate that behavior..take it somewhere else..

Noob question but what is "shill bidding"?

[nubbinator]

Fraudulent bids to artificially drive up the price.  Usually done with alt fraudulent alternative accounts or by friends and/or family.

While not quite shill bidding, Cactux's bidding in some recent auction threads could be considered shill bidding by some since he's only bidding to increase the sale price, not to try and win.

[catnipz0098]

I'm fine.

Its an honor system anyways.

[Neebio]

While not quite shill bidding, Cactux's bidding in some recent auction threads could be considered shill bidding by some since he's only bidding to increase the sale price, not to try and win.

There is nothing wrong with what he is doing for one important reason: if he ends up with the highest bid, he is obligated to pay that for the item.  If you notice him bidding on something he doesn't even want... let him win it.  He'll stop bidding on things he doesn't want pretty quickly if he starts winning them.  Then, if he wins the auctions and backs out since he didn't want the items in the first place, you have a basis to legitimately ignore him in any future auctions for failure to pay after winning.

[jcrouse]

But what we have here is someone that is keeping the prices low because he wants the community to share in the enjoyment.

The intent of keeping the prices low so the community can enjoy them instead turns into people trying to get them to try to make money off of someone else's work.

They've basically taken someone's goodwill and turned it on its head.

I am curious how you know the thoughts and intent of CC. Do not speak for someone else who has not voiced their opinion since this really exploded a year or so ago. While you may be 100% correct, It simply is not fair. (and don't paste the extremely generic comment cc made a long time ago that really does not address the issue)

John

[MOZ]

My ideas towards solutions:
1. All auctions elsewhere unless allowed by moderators (Those for community/charitable benefits)
2. Subforum for posting CC WTS/WTB
3. Subforum for posting auction great finds, posting replied locked.
4. All items posted for sale should have atleast one image showing clearly the product for sale, username, and date the item is posted on. Image has to be re-uploaded after one month if item is unsold.
5. All items for sale must have a listed price.
6. Template for putting up products, including fields such as name of product, date of purchase, location, listed price, reason for sale, product condition, shipping charges, mode of payment.
7. One other thing I have noted and seen less elsewhere is each user having a single sale thread and editing them. Most sites have classifieds threads product wise, once the item is sold, sold price is mentioned and thread locked. A CRON job moves all these closed threads to a "Closed Deals" subforum ever night or it is done automatically when the thread is closed. This tends to keep things organised and the replies in the thread are relevant to the currently sold product.

[Blazed]

But what we have here is someone that is keeping the prices low because he wants the community to share in the enjoyment.

The intent of keeping the prices low so the community can enjoy them instead turns into people trying to get them to try to make money off of someone else's work.

They've basically taken someone's goodwill and turned it on its head.

I am curious how you know the thoughts and intent of CC. Do not speak for someone else who has not voiced their opinion since this really exploded a year or so ago. While you may be 100% correct, It simply is not fair. (and don't paste the extremely generic comment cc made a long time ago that really does not address the issue)

John

What are you even talking about jcrouse? Sounds like you are getting mad at him for no reason, and your comments don't even match up with his.

If you want to blame anyone, blame yourself for starting this massive problem of people throwing their wallets at clacks.

[SpAmRaY]

As you can imagine, I like the auctions.  In reality, they build excitement and community activity, like it or not. In all honesty, I am not a real active member and don't participate in the community aspect as much as many but I do try to support members and the forum. That said, just remember that there are many sides to view things from and many people come here for various reasons and enjoy diffetent things, not necessarily for the same reasons you may be here.

I have always been of the free enterprise view and anyone can do whatever they want with their items. In my opinion, it is not the activity, an auction, that divides the community, but in fact, it is the constant whining and butthurt. Maybe the whiners need removed. Think about it, if $20 items were auctioned for $1000 and there was no whining, jelousy, envy, butthurt, call it whay you want, but instead, joy for the new owner, would there be an issue? I am guessing not. I don't want to call people out and respect the views of others. There are many here against auctions and I will adk this, if I auction a $20 item for $1000 how does it honestly negatively effect you. It should have no effect on you, yourself. You are just tired of the *****ing. Maybe those individual need to grow up and reexamine their perspectivrs. If there was no *****ing there would be no problem.

John

This would be fine if the entity selling the Clacks was selling them at whatever price they could get..completely free market..

But what we have here is someone that is keeping the prices low because he wants the community to share in the enjoyment.  Based on what they sell for here he could easily sell them for significantly more and people would still buy them.  He keeps prices low so the people that want to enjoy them can enjoy them without really hurting their wallet.

What ends up happening is people then end up making money off his back...You have people trying to buy them, not for their enjoyment, but so they can flip them immediately.  The intent of keeping the prices low so the community can enjoy them instead turns into people trying to get them to try to make money off of someone else's work.

I have no issues with sales, auctions, etc..per se...I think other than shill bidding, auctions aren't a big deal...but it is pretty sad to see people flip clacks right away...They've basically taken someone's goodwill and turned it on its head..it is going to happen in situations like this.  People aren't stupid, they'll buy a 100 dollar bill for 25 dollars...but at the same time, the community itself should not facilitate that behavior..take it somewhere else..

Noob question but what is "shill bidding"?

I'm not saying it was shill bidding but when I first saw it, it was the first thing that came to mind.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50101.msg1098837#msg1098837

Someone registered to bid and then disappears...seems fishy, I mean anyone could do that just because they wanted to troll an auction.

[Krogenar]

While not quite shill bidding, Cactux's bidding in some recent auction threads could be considered shill bidding by some since he's only bidding to increase the sale price, not to try and win.

There is nothing wrong with what he is doing for one important reason: if he ends up with the highest bid, he is obligated to pay that for the item.  If you notice him bidding on something he doesn't even want... let him win it.  He'll stop bidding on things he doesn't want pretty quickly if he starts winning them.  Then, if he wins the auctions and backs out since he didn't want the items in the first place, you have a basis to legitimately ignore him in any future auctions for failure to pay after winning.

Right, Cactux would "win" on an item he doesn't want, but since GH doesn't have the infrastructure (like an auction site) to enforce that negative outcome on him, who can really be sure? When fraud occurs at a site like eBay, eBay can handle the resolution. Sell broken items on eBay and get enough negative comments and you'll be done. Maybe items over a certain monetary value could be handled off-site. If you've got a $40 Model M to sell, name your price here and sell, but if you've got a high-ticket, rare, unique item that you expect to sell, take it to eBay? The problem with GH hosting auctions is that there's really no way to make sure people have skin in the game. For most auctions, people who want to bid are usually obligated to show how much money they've got in their pocket, and in some cases are required to leave a deposit -- which is forfeited in the event that they bid more than they can pay.

Auctions are too disruptive to the community it seems, so take it off-site where there can be more protection against fraud. People are still going to be upset by auctions, no matter where they are held, but at least there will be some consumer protection.

We should run a poll to determine what the community thinks of selling, auctions and the marketplace in general. CF should still have lotteries, but raise the prices. The "real" price of a clack is not the $40 price that CF asks for -- it's the $100+ prices that people are willing to pay. If CF will agree to run his lotteries at the real market price, then at least the extra money will be riding on CF's hip.

[jcrouse]

What are you even talking about jcrouse? Sounds like you are getting mad at him for no reason, and your comments don't even match up with his.

If you want to blame anyone, blame yourself for starting this massive problem of people throwing their wallets at clacks.

What? I stated that I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I respect that. What part of that do you not understand. I am in no way mad. We are openly discussing something here are there is certainly no reason to point blame, although you are emntitled to your opinions. If you did not understand my point you should read it again.

He stated why cc keeps his prices low and something else. I simply asked how he knows what the intent or reasons of another person are. That's all. This is exactly why I do not often comment, share my opinion or engage here. Because for some reason a lot of people have an inability to maturely and openly discuss items without resorting to blame or name calling. 

Lastly, I would think someone with 23 posts and a member for a little over half a year hardly knows the entire story of what has happened here the last 18 to 24 months.

John

[MKULTRA]

We should run a poll to determine what the community thinks of selling, auctions and the marketplace in general. CF should still have lotteries, but raise the prices. The "real" price of a clack is not the $40 price that CF asks for -- it's the $100+ prices that people are willing to pay. If CF will agree to run his lotteries at the real market price, then at least the extra money will be riding on CF's hip.

I don't really think it is right to try and tell CC how to set his own prices.  The whole point of the lottery is so you can feel awesome when you win a clack for so damn cheap.  He obviously has his motif's for setting the prices how he does, lets try not to drag him into this bull****.  He's just a guy who likes to create keys as a hobby.

[jcrouse]

Someone above mentioned moving auctions to ebay. Do we dtill allow sales? Or sales of everything except clacks? Msybe single out korean customs also. My point is that if allow any clack activity, sales, the issues will continue. If someone posts a clack for sale for $200 they eill get many pms offering 150 or 175 and if we make it trandparent like everything is the way to go then the envy, butthurt and negativity will all continue. As stated, the problem is not the auction or sale, but peoples reactions to it. Every single person that posts these types of comments adds to the problem. If clack auctions are moved to ebay they will still be discussed here and all the anger and butthurt will continue. Someone will still whine that the missed ount on the last X numbet of sales and a freakin 20 clack just sold on rbsy for 200. Am I wrong thinking that? Maybe we sensor and delete sny post that references clacks completely. Now, that may solve gthe problem. 

John

[jcrouse]

If CF will agree to run his lotteries at the real market price, then at least the extra money will be riding on CF's hip.

But people will still be angry they did not get one, can't afford it or dont have any. No?

[Krogenar]

We should run a poll to determine what the community thinks of selling, auctions and the marketplace in general. CF should still have lotteries, but raise the prices. The "real" price of a clack is not the $40 price that CF asks for -- it's the $100+ prices that people are willing to pay. If CF will agree to run his lotteries at the real market price, then at least the extra money will be riding on CF's hip.

I don't really think it is right to try and tell CC how to set his own prices.  The whole point of the lottery is so you can feel awesome when you win a clack for so damn cheap.  He obviously has his motif's for setting the prices how he does, lets try not to drag him into this bull****.  He's just a guy who likes to create keys as a hobby.

I'm not questioning his motives for offering clacks at an artificially low price -- but look at the upsetment it causes! People routinely call the $40 price the "regular" price, but the after lottery market says otherwise. I like the lotteries because they're exciting and fun -- but when people lose, they get upset, and their agita is so great, so powerful, so profound that we should do what is right: make sure no one gets a sweetheart deal on a clack anymore. CF was (and is) doing something cool, but since some upsetment has resulted, it should stop. It's the only moral thing to do.

No one can decide what price CF can sell his work except him, I'm just pointing out that the clack market is being distorted. The fact that the distortion is motivated by altruism and goodwill does not matter.

OR we just hug our more sensitive members and move on, and enjoy the lotteries and not look for people to blame when things don't go our way.