How do you feel about auction threads?

[Photoelectric]

or even $20 Beast switch tool (yes, really) should not be tolerated.

I agree with you on account of overpricing custom items by vendors themselves, but that's a different issue, which I'm aware of and is a sad one too.  Then overpricing on top of that.

[keymaster]

I don't disagree that the overpricing of Korean customs doesn't happen nearly as much as CCs. I was never trying to make that claim but rather state that it does happen. Because it does happen on occasion is still a problem.

If you're going to generalize like that, you need more solid examples and some statistics.  We can all agree about Clacks, because they are Always overpriced, regardless of auctions.  But you need to back yourself up when talking about other items.  A handful of occasions is not going to make your case, because there are so many sales going on on the Classifieds, 1% of sales is not a problem.  Those keycaps you linked in the last thread are a great example of something very overpriced because of an auction, however.

Lol, I'm not going to search dozens of pages looking for overpriced Korean customs. I've seen it happen and so have others -- it's no secret. While the obvious culprit of the need to get rid of auctions from this forum are CCs, any kind of overpriced item such as Korean customs or even $20 Beast switch tool (yes, really) should not be tolerated.

I'm done beating a dead horse with this.

tl;dr = Auctions cause overpriced items, mostly CCs but including Korean customs and other items.

$20 beast tools are overpriced? I mean if you got them for $14-16, shipping is ~$2 (bubble mailer usps first class) so your talking ~$17 if you've got a bubble mailer already....$3 too much profit??

It costs me more than $3 to drive to the post office.

It doesn't really matter that it's just a few bucks. It's the principle that counts, at least for me, because it is a bit insulting...especially when it was auctioned off.

[SpAmRaY]

I don't disagree that the overpricing of Korean customs doesn't happen nearly as much as CCs. I was never trying to make that claim but rather state that it does happen. Because it does happen on occasion is still a problem.

If you're going to generalize like that, you need more solid examples and some statistics.  We can all agree about Clacks, because they are Always overpriced, regardless of auctions.  But you need to back yourself up when talking about other items.  A handful of occasions is not going to make your case, because there are so many sales going on on the Classifieds, 1% of sales is not a problem.  Those keycaps you linked in the last thread are a great example of something very overpriced because of an auction, however.

Lol, I'm not going to search dozens of pages looking for overpriced Korean customs. I've seen it happen and so have others -- it's no secret. While the obvious culprit of the need to get rid of auctions from this forum are CCs, any kind of overpriced item such as Korean customs or even $20 Beast switch tool (yes, really) should not be tolerated.

I'm done beating a dead horse with this.

tl;dr = Auctions cause overpriced items, mostly CCs but including Korean customs and other items.

$20 beast tools are overpriced? I mean if you got them for $14-16, shipping is ~$2 (bubble mailer usps first class) so your talking ~$17 if you've got a bubble mailer already....$3 too much profit??

It costs me more than $3 to drive to the post office.

It doesn't really matter that it's just a few bucks. It's the principle that counts, at least for me, because it is a bit insulting...especially when it was auctioned off.

So if someone just put up a FS thread, beast switch tools $20 shipped! Would that be ok?

[nubbinator]

$20 beast tools are overpriced? I mean if you got them for $14-16, shipping is ~$2 (bubble mailer usps first class) so your talking ~$17 if you've got a bubble mailer already....$3 too much profit??

It costs me more than $3 to drive to the post office.

I sold mine for $15 shipped in a bubble mailer because I didn't like it.  And you can print your label at home and leave it in your mailbox, no need to take it to the post office.

To me, there's no excuse to sell something for more than you paid for it unless you're adding value to it, value that others can appreciate, not just something you did for yourself.  Not only that, but community is contingent upon people not seeing each other as ways to make a ton of money.  If I buy something for a friend because they asked or if I have something a friend wants to buy off of me, I sell it at cost or a slight loss.  Hell, sometimes I even give it away.  When one of my friends wants me to make them something, I charge them a lot less for it than I would a customer because I want them to have something nice that's affordable and I know they'll look out for me in the future.

Community is contingent upon good faith and auctions and profiteering (not making small profits) off of people on here is in bad faith and breaks down the community.

[Melvang]

$20 beast tools are overpriced? I mean if you got them for $14-16, shipping is ~$2 (bubble mailer usps first class) so your talking ~$17 if you've got a bubble mailer already....$3 too much profit??

It costs me more than $3 to drive to the post office.

I sold mine for $15 shipped in a bubble mailer because I didn't like it.  And you can print your label at home and leave it in your mailbox, no need to take it to the post office.

To me, there's no excuse to sell something for more than you paid for it unless you're adding value to it, value that others can appreciate, not just something you did for yourself.  Not only that, but community is contingent upon people not seeing each other as ways to make a ton of money.  If I buy something for a friend because they asked or if I have something a friend wants to buy off of me, I sell it at cost or a slight loss.  Hell, sometimes I even give it away.  When one of my friends wants me to make them something, I charge them a lot less for it than I would a customer because I want them to have something nice that's affordable and I know they'll look out for me in the future.

Community is contingent upon good faith and auctions and profiteering (not making small profits) off of people on here is in bad faith and breaks down the community.

This^^^

[SpAmRaY]

So everything should be sold for at least 10% off what it was purchased for?

I'm just trying to get a baseline here.

[nubbinator]

So everything should be sold for at least 10% off what it was purchased for?

I'm just trying to get a baseline here.

You don't need to sell for a loss and you can sell some things for a small profit. Who has ever looked down on someone selling off extras they bought in a GB for a small profit because they were helping it hit MOQ?  The problem is that there are people who expect the buyers to absorb the cost for every modification they did to make it something the seller liked better.  There are people who expect things to sell for 25-600% more than they paid for it and they think that it's okay and right to do so.  And there are people who think that the buyer should pay for the initial cost to the seller and shipping on top of that.  So you see stuff like a $15 Beast switch tool selling for more than the $15 it cost shipped because people want to take a $0 loss when they should be eating the initial shipping cost.  For example, if I bought a Model M for $40+ shipping, would it be right for me to sell it for $55 + shipping?

My point was more to keep prices reasonable. 

Auctions have a way of making prices unreasonable and ruining the sense of community.  Look at how much anger gets directed to people in auction threads, look how many people make it personal or bid just to drive up the price of an item so that their similar item doesn't depreciate.  Auctions are all about status, maintaining the value of items you have, and making a ton of money.  They have no place here, not if we want to continue calling ourselves a community. 

[keymaster]

I don't disagree that the overpricing of Korean customs doesn't happen nearly as much as CCs. I was never trying to make that claim but rather state that it does happen. Because it does happen on occasion is still a problem.

If you're going to generalize like that, you need more solid examples and some statistics.  We can all agree about Clacks, because they are Always overpriced, regardless of auctions.  But you need to back yourself up when talking about other items.  A handful of occasions is not going to make your case, because there are so many sales going on on the Classifieds, 1% of sales is not a problem.  Those keycaps you linked in the last thread are a great example of something very overpriced because of an auction, however.

Lol, I'm not going to search dozens of pages looking for overpriced Korean customs. I've seen it happen and so have others -- it's no secret. While the obvious culprit of the need to get rid of auctions from this forum are CCs, any kind of overpriced item such as Korean customs or even $20 Beast switch tool (yes, really) should not be tolerated.

I'm done beating a dead horse with this.

tl;dr = Auctions cause overpriced items, mostly CCs but including Korean customs and other items.

$20 beast tools are overpriced? I mean if you got them for $14-16, shipping is ~$2 (bubble mailer usps first class) so your talking ~$17 if you've got a bubble mailer already....$3 too much profit??

It costs me more than $3 to drive to the post office.

It doesn't really matter that it's just a few bucks. It's the principle that counts, at least for me, because it is a bit insulting...especially when it was auctioned off.

So if someone just put up a FS thread, beast switch tools $20 shipped! Would that be ok?

Why can't people just sell them for what they paid for shipped? Is it really that necessary to make a few dollars profit? That is the jist of my argument in this thread...people shouldn't immediately look to make as much money as possible off other members.

[Binge]

Uhhhh-- hey.  Getting REALLY far off topic.  I don't think it even proves a point now.

IF you're going to be an asshat and charge a ton for an item.. maybe equal to or higher than market value so be it....

But instigating fights/butthurt/flames/crapping on people's art work by auctioning items on a site that is not equipped to handle auctions is has nothing to do with the high cost of clacks.

Say you get a new clack and you say "I'm flipping this for $80 interested buyers only (no butthurt comments)" I see this as fair.  You're being a worm for flipping and screwing someone else out of the drawing but you are asking a value and I respect that.  This value is on the seller's head and not a product of fighting and inflation from the community full of people who sometimes have way too much to prove.

Yes- the buyer is setting the price, but inevitably this draws a line between the people with means and the people without.  It instigates a separation between users on the forums.  Even if CCs were marked at $300 to start this phenomena would not exist because the people without the means wouldn't have had a chance... they would know that.

You get into this bidding and it creates false hope, feelings of attachment, and even an over-extension of one's ability to afford the art.  It's a lot of negativity.  I welcome anyone to discuss if it is possible for people to ever be completely immune to the negative effects of feeling loss.  This loss is a burden to people.

An example, if you get a clack for $20... auction for starting at  $1-- you are asking for more but suggesting someone could afford it.  This is a lie.  The ones who have will win against the ones who do not by a large margin every time as long as CC retains popularity.

I believe it is important that his art retains value and remains recognized for what it is.  I really appreciate what it is CC accomplishes, and if this happened with anything I produced I would be conflicted.  It's not like I see the benefit of my hard work-- just recognition that for some moments I made something people covet.   That's a frightening thing to see your work do well and not do as well yourself.

In highschool an art teacher of mine bought a painting I made in class for $10.  She sold it for much more than that to an interested buyer.  She explained to me that she knew its value so she asked something much less for it so she could make money.  This taught me a lesson about how creating things is both a gratifying and potentially negative event.  From that I am fully aware of rights of ownership and the like, but if she had auctioned the piece and it done as well or better I'm pretty sure it would make me more upset.  My piece of art would have been fought over with money.  Something that had never even come into contact with the core shape or color of the work.

Excuse my sentiment.  Auctions on GH are poison when used the way I see a number of people use them.  Please regulate the auctions which occur on this site.  I don't want to see GH become like the mob and force a payout for auctions, but I also don't think people have the maturity/understanding to hold auctions without supervision.

[MKULTRA]

I don't disagree that the overpricing of Korean customs doesn't happen nearly as much as CCs. I was never trying to make that claim but rather state that it does happen. Because it does happen on occasion is still a problem.

If you're going to generalize like that, you need more solid examples and some statistics.  We can all agree about Clacks, because they are Always overpriced, regardless of auctions.  But you need to back yourself up when talking about other items.  A handful of occasions is not going to make your case, because there are so many sales going on on the Classifieds, 1% of sales is not a problem.  Those keycaps you linked in the last thread are a great example of something very overpriced because of an auction, however.

Lol, I'm not going to search dozens of pages looking for overpriced Korean customs. I've seen it happen and so have others -- it's no secret. While the obvious culprit of the need to get rid of auctions from this forum are CCs, any kind of overpriced item such as Korean customs or even $20 Beast switch tool (yes, really) should not be tolerated.

I'm done beating a dead horse with this.

tl;dr = Auctions cause overpriced items, mostly CCs but including Korean customs and other items.

$20 beast tools are overpriced? I mean if you got them for $14-16, shipping is ~$2 (bubble mailer usps first class) so your talking ~$17 if you've got a bubble mailer already....$3 too much profit??

It costs me more than $3 to drive to the post office.

It doesn't really matter that it's just a few bucks. It's the principle that counts, at least for me, because it is a bit insulting...especially when it was auctioned off.

So if someone just put up a FS thread, beast switch tools $20 shipped! Would that be ok?

Why can't people just sell them for what they paid for shipped? Is it really that necessary to make a few dollars profit? That is the jist of my argument in this thread...people shouldn't immediately look to make as much money as possible off other members.

Other people may have a different value for said item.  This is why today a Graphite set will fetch $150+  Just because it sold for $x amount in the group buy doesn't mean it is still worth that amount on the market.  Right now there are a lot fewer of them around and there are people who want them, which makes the value of the item increase.  At that point it only makes sense to let somebody pay whatever they feel the value of the item is.  If an item is worth $100 to person A and $150 to person B and the item is sold at a price of $80 to person A, is it fair that he got that item, since it was worth more to person B?  Especially since person B probably didn't have the chance to make an offer on the item since it got swiped up so fast.

[Krogenar]

So everything should be sold for at least 10% off what it was purchased for?

I'm just trying to get a baseline here.

You don't need to sell for a loss and you can sell some things for a small profit. Who has ever looked down on someone selling off extras they bought in a GB for a small profit because they were helping it hit MOQ?  The problem is that there are people who expect the buyers to absorb the cost for every modification they did to make it something the seller liked better.  There are people who expect things to sell for 25-600% more than they paid for it and they think that it's okay and right to do so.  And there are people who think that the buyer should pay for the initial cost to the seller and shipping on top of that.  So you see stuff like a $15 Beast switch tool selling for more than the $15 it cost shipped because people want to take a $0 loss when they should be eating the initial shipping cost.  For example, if I bought a Model M for $40+ shipping, would it be right for me to sell it for $55 + shipping?

My point was more to keep prices reasonable.

How specifically do we decide what is considered an unreasonable profit? 10%? 20%? You raise a valid point about selling GB extras purchased to make MOQ. So that would be an exception. Who would be in charge of deciding these guidelines? It seems to me that determining those rules, exceptions, and enforcing them would be really tedious and unlikely to work.

As for the Model M example, I would say sell it for $55 if it's worth that much to someone. If you're dealing with a knowledgeable buyer then they're not likely to buy it. Since no coercion is present (on either end of the transaction) then I would be okay with the sale.

Auctions have a way of making prices unreasonable and ruining the sense of community. Look at how much anger gets directed to people in auction threads, look how many people make it personal or bid just to drive up the price of an item so that their similar item doesn't depreciate.

I would describe that situation as fraudulent, and it's not something the forum software can handle. There's no legal way for GH to punish those people -- so maybe moving them off-site is a good move. eBay, or some other auction site will have the organization necessary to reduce the fraud. Ok, I'm convinced. If auctions upset that many people to that degree, prohibit them.

[keymaster]

Why can't people just sell them for what they paid for shipped? Is it really that necessary to make a few dollars profit? That is the jist of my argument in this thread...people shouldn't immediately look to make as much money as possible off other members.

Other people may have a different value for said item.  This is why today a Graphite set will fetch $150+  Just because it sold for $x amount in the group buy doesn't mean it is still worth that amount on the market.  Right now there are a lot fewer of them around and there are people who want them, which makes the value of the item increase.  At that point it only makes sense to let somebody pay whatever they feel the value of the item is.  If an item is worth $100 to person A and $150 to person B and the item is sold at a price of $80 to person A, is it fair that he got that item, since it was worth more to person B?  Especially since person B probably didn't have the chance to make an offer on the item since it got swiped up so fast.

Correct. Everyone here pretty much understand how the market economy works. What I'm saying is that it doesn't have to be like this on GH. If we are all keyboard enthusiasts here and share similar interests, why can't we be above the selfishness that exists in the outside world and price things fairly?

[Melvang]

I think it is time for a vote. 

1.  Allow auctions as it is now.
2.  No auctions on this site.
3.  Allow only zero profit auctions.

[SpAmRaY]

I think it is time for a vote. 

1.  Allow auctions as it is now.
2.  No auctions on this site.
3.  Allow only zero profit auctions.

^^ how do you determine if they are zero profit??

[Melvang]

Faith would be the only way really.

[MKULTRA]

Why can't people just sell them for what they paid for shipped? Is it really that necessary to make a few dollars profit? That is the jist of my argument in this thread...people shouldn't immediately look to make as much money as possible off other members.

Other people may have a different value for said item.  This is why today a Graphite set will fetch $150+  Just because it sold for $x amount in the group buy doesn't mean it is still worth that amount on the market.  Right now there are a lot fewer of them around and there are people who want them, which makes the value of the item increase.  At that point it only makes sense to let somebody pay whatever they feel the value of the item is.  If an item is worth $100 to person A and $150 to person B and the item is sold at a price of $80 to person A, is it fair that he got that item, since it was worth more to person B?  Especially since person B probably didn't have the chance to make an offer on the item since it got swiped up so fast.

Correct. Everyone here pretty much understand how the market economy works. What I'm saying is that it doesn't have to be like this on GH. If we are all keyboard enthusiasts here and share similar interests, why can't we be above the selfishness that exists in the outside world and price things fairly?

I explained in that post why it isn't selfish.  Thanks for reading.

[inlikeflynn]

How do you propose people sell items for which they don't know the real price such as a rare korean custom?  I don't want a bunch of TW threads again.

A post in this thread would probably be helpful to someone looking for a price estimate. Or ask around in the #geekhack IRC channel, as some of the people that hang around in there can provide good information.

have to disagree here. If you are asking about something generic like a poker or Filco or some SP caps or something like that, you'll get an ok answer.


But try asking about anything like some older keyboard that might be rare or 1 of a kind or uniquely modded one and you either won't even get a response or the response you do get is just completely wrong. Ever since SmallFry was taken from us, the information you get from this thread has gone way down hill.

[Krogenar]

I think it is time for a vote. 

1.  Allow auctions as it is now.
2.  No auctions on this site.
3.  Allow only zero profit auctions.

^^ how do you determine if they are zero profit??

Ray, you just keep hammering on this point -- how do we root out the evil profiteers from the people who are selling their keyboards in order to buy wheelchairs for handicapped orphans? There seems to be no good way. Fraud can be prevented, but apart from maintaining a database of sales, receipts, etc. -- there's no real way to do it. And people would just leave, and sell elsewhere. Which might actually be a good thing. I don't think so, but maybe.

[SpAmRaY]

I think it is time for a vote. 

1.  Allow auctions as it is now.
2.  No auctions on this site.
3.  Allow only zero profit auctions.

^^ how do you determine if they are zero profit??

Ray, you just keep hammering on this point -- how do we root out the evil profiteers from the people who are selling their keyboards to save handicapped orphans? There seems to be no good way. Fraud can be prevented, but apart from maintaining a database of sales, receipts, etc. -- there's no real way to do it.

^^ exactly! It can't be done! That's the point.

[jdcarpe]

But try asking about anything like some older keyboard that might be rare or 1 of a kind or uniquely modded one and you either won't even get a response or the response you do get is just completely wrong.

If it's something people aren't familiar with, or hasn't been sold in recent years, then no, that thread isn't going to help you much. But you know what you paid for it, can that not be your guide?

[jdcarpe]

I think it is time for a vote. 

1.  Allow auctions as it is now.
2.  No auctions on this site.
3.  Allow only zero profit auctions.

^^ how do you determine if they are zero profit??

Ray, you just keep hammering on this point -- how do we root out the evil profiteers from the people who are selling their keyboards to save handicapped orphans? There seems to be no good way. Fraud can be prevented, but apart from maintaining a database of sales, receipts, etc. -- there's no real way to do it.

^^ exactly! It can't be done! That's the point.

You make my point for me, sir. Since there is no way to determine if an auction is for-profit, or not-for-profit, they must all be assumed to be for maximum profit. And therefore must be disallowed on the forum.

[Krogenar]

I think it is time for a vote. 

1.  Allow auctions as it is now.
2.  No auctions on this site.
3.  Allow only zero profit auctions.

^^ how do you determine if they are zero profit??

Ray, you just keep hammering on this point -- how do we root out the evil profiteers from the people who are selling their keyboards to save handicapped orphans? There seems to be no good way. Fraud can be prevented, but apart from maintaining a database of sales, receipts, etc. -- there's no real way to do it.

^^ exactly! It can't be done! That's the point.

True, true, but we might decide to try anyway? 

[SpAmRaY]

I think it is time for a vote. 

1.  Allow auctions as it is now.
2.  No auctions on this site.
3.  Allow only zero profit auctions.

^^ how do you determine if they are zero profit??

Ray, you just keep hammering on this point -- how do we root out the evil profiteers from the people who are selling their keyboards to save handicapped orphans? There seems to be no good way. Fraud can be prevented, but apart from maintaining a database of sales, receipts, etc. -- there's no real way to do it.

^^ exactly! It can't be done! That's the point.

You make my point for me, sir. Since there is no way to determine if an auction is for-profit, or not-for-profit, they must all be assumed to be for maximum profit. And therefore must be disallowed on the forum.

So no auctions ok.

Just throwing this out there, say someone goes to their closest e-cycler and finds a dolch system in good condition, walking away with it for say $50, is it right to sell it for $175 in a sale?

[IPT]

$20 beast tools are overpriced? I mean if you got them for $14-16, shipping is ~$2 (bubble mailer usps first class) so your talking ~$17 if you've got a bubble mailer already....$3 too much profit??

It costs me more than $3 to drive to the post office.

I sold mine for $15 shipped in a bubble mailer because I didn't like it.  And you can print your label at home and leave it in your mailbox, no need to take it to the post office.

To me, there's no excuse to sell something for more than you paid for it unless you're adding value to it, value that others can appreciate, not just something you did for yourself.  Not only that, but community is contingent upon people not seeing each other as ways to make a ton of money.  If I buy something for a friend because they asked or if I have something a friend wants to buy off of me, I sell it at cost or a slight loss.  Hell, sometimes I even give it away.  When one of my friends wants me to make them something, I charge them a lot less for it than I would a customer because I want them to have something nice that's affordable and I know they'll look out for me in the future.

Community is contingent upon good faith and auctions and profiteering (not making small profits) off of people on here is in bad faith and breaks down the community.

just FYI you can't put it in your mailbox in all places
some odd reason (don't ask me why), some parts of NYC mail carriers don't take mail from your personal mailbox.
You have to either drop at post office, or in a post office box on the streets.
My apartment is one of them ironically.
This blew my mind from when I lived on Long Island at my parents house and just put the little flag up for the mailman to take my stuff.

I mean i guess logically it'll be a bit crazy to take everyone's mail in an apartment complex. especially when the mail carriers are on foot and not in cars/trucks.

So everything should be sold for at least 10% off what it was purchased for?

I'm just trying to get a baseline here.

You don't need to sell for a loss and you can sell some things for a small profit. Who has ever looked down on someone selling off extras they bought in a GB for a small profit because they were helping it hit MOQ?  The problem is that there are people who expect the buyers to absorb the cost for every modification they did to make it something the seller liked better.  There are people who expect things to sell for 25-600% more than they paid for it and they think that it's okay and right to do so.  And there are people who think that the buyer should pay for the initial cost to the seller and shipping on top of that.  So you see stuff like a $15 Beast switch tool selling for more than the $15 it cost shipped because people want to take a $0 loss when they should be eating the initial shipping cost.  For example, if I bought a Model M for $40+ shipping, would it be right for me to sell it for $55 + shipping?

My point was more to keep prices reasonable. 

Auctions have a way of making prices unreasonable and ruining the sense of community.  Look at how much anger gets directed to people in auction threads, look how many people make it personal or bid just to drive up the price of an item so that their similar item doesn't depreciate.  Auctions are all about status, maintaining the value of items you have, and making a ton of money.  They have no place here, not if we want to continue calling ourselves a community. 

Dunno if you were here for this, but people got upset with ragnarock when he was running GBs that ended up letting him get a small profit.
They assumed he should just organize and sort/ship all the stuff for no cost.

[jdcarpe]

Just throwing this out there, say someone goes to their closest e-cycler and finds a dolch system in good condition, walking away with it for say $50, is it right to sell it for $175 in a sale?

Only they would know how much they paid. And people generally only want them for the keyboard, so probably about $100 or so would be a more fair way to price it, I would say. It is then on their conscience to know that they just basically took $50 from a fellow forum member, for doing nothing but being lucky with a find, when they could have passed on that great deal to someone else, if the seller didn't want it.

[SpAmRaY]

Just throwing this out there, say someone goes to their closest e-cycler and finds a dolch system in good condition, walking away with it for say $50, is it right to sell it for $175 in a sale?

Only they would know how much they paid. And people generally only want them for the keyboard, so probably about $100 or so would be a more fair way to price it, I would say. It is then on their conscience to know that they just basically took $50 from a fellow forum member, for doing nothing but being lucky with a find, when they could have passed on that great deal to someone else, if the seller didn't want it.

So IF you knew about it would it be proper to say something in their FS thread??

[IPT]

Just throwing this out there, say someone goes to their closest e-cycler and finds a dolch system in good condition, walking away with it for say $50, is it right to sell it for $175 in a sale?

Only they would know how much they paid. And people generally only want them for the keyboard, so probably about $100 or so would be a more fair way to price it, I would say. It is then on their conscience to know that they just basically took $50 from a fellow forum member, for doing nothing but being lucky with a find, when they could have passed on that great deal to someone else, if the seller didn't want it.

but you'd have no objection to this as its a firm sale price right?
Besides the personal feelings of the person possibly gaining profit off of a member.

[jdcarpe]

Just throwing this out there, say someone goes to their closest e-cycler and finds a dolch system in good condition, walking away with it for say $50, is it right to sell it for $175 in a sale?

Only they would know how much they paid. And people generally only want them for the keyboard, so probably about $100 or so would be a more fair way to price it, I would say. It is then on their conscience to know that they just basically took $50 from a fellow forum member, for doing nothing but being lucky with a find, when they could have passed on that great deal to someone else, if the seller didn't want it.

So IF you knew about it would it be proper to say something in their FS thread??

I would.

[jdcarpe]

Just throwing this out there, say someone goes to their closest e-cycler and finds a dolch system in good condition, walking away with it for say $50, is it right to sell it for $175 in a sale?

Only they would know how much they paid. And people generally only want them for the keyboard, so probably about $100 or so would be a more fair way to price it, I would say. It is then on their conscience to know that they just basically took $50 from a fellow forum member, for doing nothing but being lucky with a find, when they could have passed on that great deal to someone else, if the seller didn't want it.

but you'd have no objection to this as its a firm sale price right?
Besides the personal feelings of the person possibly gaining profit off of a member.

I wouldn't know how much the seller paid for it, and $100 is a fair price for a Dolch keyboard. So no, I would have no reason for objection, if I didn't know how much the seller paid.

[MKULTRA]

Just throwing this out there, say someone goes to their closest e-cycler and finds a dolch system in good condition, walking away with it for say $50, is it right to sell it for $175 in a sale?

Only they would know how much they paid. And people generally only want them for the keyboard, so probably about $100 or so would be a more fair way to price it, I would say. It is then on their conscience to know that they just basically took $50 from a fellow forum member, for doing nothing but being lucky with a find, when they could have passed on that great deal to someone else, if the seller didn't want it.

So IF you knew about it would it be proper to say something in their FS thread??

I would.

Isn't that considered threadcrapping?  Take that stuff up with the seller over PM.

[jdcarpe]

Just throwing this out there, say someone goes to their closest e-cycler and finds a dolch system in good condition, walking away with it for say $50, is it right to sell it for $175 in a sale?

Only they would know how much they paid. And people generally only want them for the keyboard, so probably about $100 or so would be a more fair way to price it, I would say. It is then on their conscience to know that they just basically took $50 from a fellow forum member, for doing nothing but being lucky with a find, when they could have passed on that great deal to someone else, if the seller didn't want it.

So IF you knew about it would it be proper to say something in their FS thread??

I would.

Isn't that considered threadcrapping?  Take that stuff up with the seller over PM.

It has been considered that in the past. But I don't have a problem with it, and I don't think there should be a "no threadcrapping" rule. You can see my many posts about that previously.

[inlikeflynn]

But you know what you paid for it, can that not be your guide?

That is the problem though for both the actual old/rare stuff and the CC's that most of this discussion is about

If I sell something which is in high demand or rare for zero profit, there is a very good chance that the person I sell it to will end up reselling it (publicly or privately) for much much more.

Example: Lets say I put up an ad to sell my OG TRI CC to the 1st person who pm's me for $50. There is a much smaller number of people on here who would actually keep and appreciate it vs. those that who would instantly flip it for a nice profit on their end. Lets say its a 20%/80% split there of types of members, and I doubt its even that many percentage wise that would be on the keeping it side. So if there is an 80% chance of me selling it to someone else who will flip it and make $200-$250 profit why in the heck would I want to-do that? It still sold for an outrageous price in the end and someone else made all the profit for being the fastest at pm'ing. So basically the same thing that happens after the EK sales, except its the original seller here losing out instead of CC on the profit

The point i'm trying to make is that its too risky and stupid for a seller to blindly give a deal to someone when more likely than not its just going to get flipped.  CC might not care seeing people profit from the luck of the EK/4grabs sale. But I sure as hell don't want someone to make huge profits from me being nice and selling at a reasonable price....

[IPT]

Just throwing this out there, say someone goes to their closest e-cycler and finds a dolch system in good condition, walking away with it for say $50, is it right to sell it for $175 in a sale?

Only they would know how much they paid. And people generally only want them for the keyboard, so probably about $100 or so would be a more fair way to price it, I would say. It is then on their conscience to know that they just basically took $50 from a fellow forum member, for doing nothing but being lucky with a find, when they could have passed on that great deal to someone else, if the seller didn't want it.

So IF you knew about it would it be proper to say something in their FS thread??

see here's the thing, i wouldn't
but people here seem to think they have to be white knights and bring up posts.

For example, i will link one of my first classified threads:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=27058.msg509406#msg509406

I had just come back from taiwan and had bought a few keyboards back with me to the USA
This was when Filco MJ2 TKL Blues were not commonly available in the USA
I was also selling Filco Wrist rests and what not.

I was getting threadcrapped about how my keyboards are only $5.00 cheaper than amazon, why the heck would anyone buy from me instead of from keyboardco's amazon store

But here's the kicker:  Keyboardco's Amazon page was sold out of normal black TKL Filcos MX Blue
They only had i believe a Yellow Keycap version and the Camo.
And I think they had like MX Blacks.
Or they would link fullsize keyboards to me.

But people kept linking these products in my sell thread, after i continued to say its not the same item, stop threadcrapping.

Is that "educating" people?  Or is it just White-Knighting?

[keymaster]

I would much rather see people hording CCs and/or only trading them for CCs only than to see people sell them for $$$. I'm disgusted when I see people trading a CC for entire keyboards + cash on top of that.

[jdcarpe]

But you know what you paid for it, can that not be your guide?

That is the problem though for both the actual old/rare stuff and the CC's that most of this discussion is about

If I sell something which is in high demand or rare for zero profit, there is a very good chance that the person I sell it to will end up reselling it (publicly or privately) for much much more.

Example: Lets say I put up an ad to sell my OG TRI CC to the 1st person who pm's me for $50. There is a much smaller number of people on here who would actually keep and appreciate it vs. those that who would instantly flip it for a nice profit on their end. Lets say its a 20%/80% split there of types of members, and I doubt its even that many percentage wise that would be on the keeping it side. So if there is an 80% chance of me selling it to someone else who will flip it and make $200-$250 profit why in the heck would I want to-do that? It still sold for an outrageous price in the end and someone else made all the profit for being the fastest at pm'ing. So basically the same thing that happens after the EK sales, except its the original seller here losing out instead of CC on the profit

The point i'm trying to make is that its too risky and stupid for a seller to blindly give a deal to someone when more likely than not its just going to get flipped.  CC might not care seeing people profit from the luck of the EK/4grabs sale. But I sure as hell don't want someone to make huge profits from me being nice and selling at a reasonable price....

That's when you call them out for it and make them feel like crap for doing it. Let everyone know what type of person they are to do it. Make sure no one wants to deal with that person. I would rather be here with the 20%, to use your example, and the other 80% can go take a flying leap.

[SpAmRaY]

But you know what you paid for it, can that not be your guide?

That is the problem though for both the actual old/rare stuff and the CC's that most of this discussion is about

If I sell something which is in high demand or rare for zero profit, there is a very good chance that the person I sell it to will end up reselling it (publicly or privately) for much much more.

Example: Lets say I put up an ad to sell my OG TRI CC to the 1st person who pm's me for $50. There is a much smaller number of people on here who would actually keep and appreciate it vs. those that who would instantly flip it for a nice profit on their end. Lets say its a 20%/80% split there of types of members, and I doubt its even that many percentage wise that would be on the keeping it side. So if there is an 80% chance of me selling it to someone else who will flip it and make $200-$250 profit why in the heck would I want to-do that? It still sold for an outrageous price in the end and someone else made all the profit for being the fastest at pm'ing. So basically the same thing that happens after the EK sales, except its the original seller here losing out instead of CC on the profit

The point i'm trying to make is that its too risky and stupid for a seller to blindly give a deal to someone when more likely than not its just going to get flipped.  CC might not care seeing people profit from the luck of the EK/4grabs sale. But I sure as hell don't want someone to make huge profits from me being nice and selling at a reasonable price....

I have $50 in my paypal......and your paypal address...just sayin 

[MKULTRA]

I would much rather see people hording CCs and/or only trading them for CCs only than to see people sell them for $$$. I'm disgusted when I see people trading a CC for entire keyboards + cash on top of that.

Then having a clack would truly be some secret club, it would be impossible to get a clack unless you won one from the lotto, and some people *cough*noisyturtle*cough* clearly aren't very lucky with those.

[SpAmRaY]

I would much rather see people hording CCs and/or only trading them for CCs only than to see people sell them for $$$. I'm disgusted when I see people trading a CC for entire keyboards + cash on top of that.

Then having a clack would truly be some secret club, it would be impossible to get a clack unless you won one from the lotto, and some people *cough*noisyturtle*cough* clearly aren't very lucky with those.

I think noisy's luck turned around today, but it's pretty obvious there is/are already clack traders that only trade amongst themselves.

[inlikeflynn]

But you know what you paid for it, can that not be your guide?

That is the problem though for both the actual old/rare stuff and the CC's that most of this discussion is about

If I sell something which is in high demand or rare for zero profit, there is a very good chance that the person I sell it to will end up reselling it (publicly or privately) for much much more.

Example: Lets say I put up an ad to sell my OG TRI CC to the 1st person who pm's me for $50. There is a much smaller number of people on here who would actually keep and appreciate it vs. those that who would instantly flip it for a nice profit on their end. Lets say its a 20%/80% split there of types of members, and I doubt its even that many percentage wise that would be on the keeping it side. So if there is an 80% chance of me selling it to someone else who will flip it and make $200-$250 profit why in the heck would I want to-do that? It still sold for an outrageous price in the end and someone else made all the profit for being the fastest at pm'ing. So basically the same thing that happens after the EK sales, except its the original seller here losing out instead of CC on the profit

The point i'm trying to make is that its too risky and stupid for a seller to blindly give a deal to someone when more likely than not its just going to get flipped.  CC might not care seeing people profit from the luck of the EK/4grabs sale. But I sure as hell don't want someone to make huge profits from me being nice and selling at a reasonable price....

That's when you call them out for it and make them feel like crap for doing it. Let everyone know what type of person they are to do it. Make sure no one wants to deal with that person. I would rather be here with the 20%, to use your example, and the other 80% can go take a flying leap.

then its just more drama and butthurt on GH

My personal method to avoid this sort of problem by hand picking who I've sold/given CC's to so that it does go to the 20%. A little bit of time looking at peoples WTB threads and talking to people lets you find out a lot about them.  And so far i'm 10/10 that everyone still has theirs, or if they did get rid of it, it was for the same price.

I have $50 in my paypal......and your paypal address...just sayin 

you know I was going to use you in my example actually, to say the 1st person to PM who wasn't SpAmRaY who is always first 
I may or may not be serious about getting rid of the old OG TRI. All I do know is that someone got a nice Night Owl deal this week

[IPT]

But you know what you paid for it, can that not be your guide?

That is the problem though for both the actual old/rare stuff and the CC's that most of this discussion is about

If I sell something which is in high demand or rare for zero profit, there is a very good chance that the person I sell it to will end up reselling it (publicly or privately) for much much more.

Example: Lets say I put up an ad to sell my OG TRI CC to the 1st person who pm's me for $50. There is a much smaller number of people on here who would actually keep and appreciate it vs. those that who would instantly flip it for a nice profit on their end. Lets say its a 20%/80% split there of types of members, and I doubt its even that many percentage wise that would be on the keeping it side. So if there is an 80% chance of me selling it to someone else who will flip it and make $200-$250 profit why in the heck would I want to-do that? It still sold for an outrageous price in the end and someone else made all the profit for being the fastest at pm'ing. So basically the same thing that happens after the EK sales, except its the original seller here losing out instead of CC on the profit

The point i'm trying to make is that its too risky and stupid for a seller to blindly give a deal to someone when more likely than not its just going to get flipped.  CC might not care seeing people profit from the luck of the EK/4grabs sale. But I sure as hell don't want someone to make huge profits from me being nice and selling at a reasonable price....

That's when you call them out for it and make them feel like crap for doing it. Let everyone know what type of person they are to do it. Make sure no one wants to deal with that person. I would rather be here with the 20%, to use your example, and the other 80% can go take a flying leap.

And im sure this'll be great when you make JDHack
I understand your passion, but i don't agree with your method.
Unless a Mod or someone in power at GH tells me so, i would not adhere to any of your stance and would report your posts as harassment/trolling/threadcrapping.

[Melvang]

I think it is time for a vote. 

1.  Allow auctions as it is now.
2.  No auctions on this site.
3.  Allow only zero profit auctions.

^^ how do you determine if they are zero profit??

Ray, you just keep hammering on this point -- how do we root out the evil profiteers from the people who are selling their keyboards to save handicapped orphans? There seems to be no good way. Fraud can be prevented, but apart from maintaining a database of sales, receipts, etc. -- there's no real way to do it.

^^ exactly! It can't be done! That's the point.

You make my point for me, sir. Since there is no way to determine if an auction is for-profit, or not-for-profit, they must all be assumed to be for maximum profit. And therefore must be disallowed on the forum.

So no auctions ok.

Just throwing this out there, say someone goes to their closest e-cycler and finds a dolch system in good condition, walking away with it for say $50, is it right to sell it for $175 in a sale?

I did exactly this only it was 2 WYSE terminal boards with vintage blacks.  I auctioned them off all bids were public knowledge via posts in the thread.  My intention was to pay back some people that lost money on the switch test tour that CPTBadass was doing.  I got $105 for both boards total.  Shipped them both off and donated 135 to geekhack.  I paid $28 for the pair.  Therefore shipping was covered by me and I donated a bit more on top.  Does that make be a bad guy for conducting the auction and selling them for 4 times what I paid?  Mkawa can verify my donation as well.

[jdcarpe]

But you know what you paid for it, can that not be your guide?

That is the problem though for both the actual old/rare stuff and the CC's that most of this discussion is about

If I sell something which is in high demand or rare for zero profit, there is a very good chance that the person I sell it to will end up reselling it (publicly or privately) for much much more.

Example: Lets say I put up an ad to sell my OG TRI CC to the 1st person who pm's me for $50. There is a much smaller number of people on here who would actually keep and appreciate it vs. those that who would instantly flip it for a nice profit on their end. Lets say its a 20%/80% split there of types of members, and I doubt its even that many percentage wise that would be on the keeping it side. So if there is an 80% chance of me selling it to someone else who will flip it and make $200-$250 profit why in the heck would I want to-do that? It still sold for an outrageous price in the end and someone else made all the profit for being the fastest at pm'ing. So basically the same thing that happens after the EK sales, except its the original seller here losing out instead of CC on the profit

The point i'm trying to make is that its too risky and stupid for a seller to blindly give a deal to someone when more likely than not its just going to get flipped.  CC might not care seeing people profit from the luck of the EK/4grabs sale. But I sure as hell don't want someone to make huge profits from me being nice and selling at a reasonable price....

That's when you call them out for it and make them feel like crap for doing it. Let everyone know what type of person they are to do it. Make sure no one wants to deal with that person. I would rather be here with the 20%, to use your example, and the other 80% can go take a flying leap.

And im sure this'll be great when you make JDHack
I understand your passion, but i don't agree with your method.
Unless a Mod or someone in power at GH tells me so, i would not adhere to any of your stance and would report your posts as harassment/trolling/threadcrapping.

You don't have to agree with me. Just the acknowledgement that I'm right is enough.

[IPT]

But you know what you paid for it, can that not be your guide?

That is the problem though for both the actual old/rare stuff and the CC's that most of this discussion is about

If I sell something which is in high demand or rare for zero profit, there is a very good chance that the person I sell it to will end up reselling it (publicly or privately) for much much more.

Example: Lets say I put up an ad to sell my OG TRI CC to the 1st person who pm's me for $50. There is a much smaller number of people on here who would actually keep and appreciate it vs. those that who would instantly flip it for a nice profit on their end. Lets say its a 20%/80% split there of types of members, and I doubt its even that many percentage wise that would be on the keeping it side. So if there is an 80% chance of me selling it to someone else who will flip it and make $200-$250 profit why in the heck would I want to-do that? It still sold for an outrageous price in the end and someone else made all the profit for being the fastest at pm'ing. So basically the same thing that happens after the EK sales, except its the original seller here losing out instead of CC on the profit

The point i'm trying to make is that its too risky and stupid for a seller to blindly give a deal to someone when more likely than not its just going to get flipped.  CC might not care seeing people profit from the luck of the EK/4grabs sale. But I sure as hell don't want someone to make huge profits from me being nice and selling at a reasonable price....

That's when you call them out for it and make them feel like crap for doing it. Let everyone know what type of person they are to do it. Make sure no one wants to deal with that person. I would rather be here with the 20%, to use your example, and the other 80% can go take a flying leap.

And im sure this'll be great when you make JDHack
I understand your passion, but i don't agree with your method.
Unless a Mod or someone in power at GH tells me so, i would not adhere to any of your stance and would report your posts as harassment/trolling/threadcrapping.

You don't have to agree with me. Just the acknowledgement that I'm right is enough.

don't get it wrong, i said i understand the passion, i don't agree with it though.
I def don't agree with the method
when you're running the site, i'll follow the rules/instructions handed out by you.

Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.

[jdcarpe]

Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.

* jdcarpe ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED

[MKULTRA]

But you know what you paid for it, can that not be your guide?

That is the problem though for both the actual old/rare stuff and the CC's that most of this discussion is about

If I sell something which is in high demand or rare for zero profit, there is a very good chance that the person I sell it to will end up reselling it (publicly or privately) for much much more.

Example: Lets say I put up an ad to sell my OG TRI CC to the 1st person who pm's me for $50. There is a much smaller number of people on here who would actually keep and appreciate it vs. those that who would instantly flip it for a nice profit on their end. Lets say its a 20%/80% split there of types of members, and I doubt its even that many percentage wise that would be on the keeping it side. So if there is an 80% chance of me selling it to someone else who will flip it and make $200-$250 profit why in the heck would I want to-do that? It still sold for an outrageous price in the end and someone else made all the profit for being the fastest at pm'ing. So basically the same thing that happens after the EK sales, except its the original seller here losing out instead of CC on the profit

The point i'm trying to make is that its too risky and stupid for a seller to blindly give a deal to someone when more likely than not its just going to get flipped.  CC might not care seeing people profit from the luck of the EK/4grabs sale. But I sure as hell don't want someone to make huge profits from me being nice and selling at a reasonable price....

That's when you call them out for it and make them feel like crap for doing it. Let everyone know what type of person they are to do it. Make sure no one wants to deal with that person. I would rather be here with the 20%, to use your example, and the other 80% can go take a flying leap.

And im sure this'll be great when you make JDHack
I understand your passion, but i don't agree with your method.
Unless a Mod or someone in power at GH tells me so, i would not adhere to any of your stance and would report your posts as harassment/trolling/threadcrapping.

You don't have to agree with me. Just the acknowledgement that I'm right is enough.

don't get it wrong, i said i understand the passion, i don't agree with it though.
I def don't agree with the method
when you're running the site, i'll follow the rules/instructions handed out by you.

Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.

Okay that is pretty ****ing cold man.  Cheapshot.  Jd is a great guy, does a ton for the community.  Can't you just agree to disagree?

[CPTBadAss]

Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.

Hold on a second, someone disagrees with you and he's made out to be a troll? Interesting logic. I disagree with you. Call me a troll too.

[SpAmRaY]

Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.

Hold on a second, someone disagrees with you and he's made out to be a troll? Interesting logic. I disagree with you. Call me a troll too.

captain troll!!

[tjcaustin]

don't get it wrong, i said i understand the passion, i don't agree with it though.
I def don't agree with the method
when you're running the site, i'll follow the rules/instructions handed out by you.

Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.

Translated:

"You're trying to keep me from screwing the community over by improving overall consumer knowledge, therefore you're nothing but a troll in my twisted, self-interested mind"

The funny part is when you state you'll do what he suggests if he's in some sort of power position, like that should matter when we're talking the things we're talking about.

In the interest of humor:

Until then, you're as bad as TP, MW, and Ripster imo.

Hold on a second, someone disagrees with you and he's made out to be a troll? Interesting logic. I disagree with you. Call me a troll too.

captain troll!!

It's CptGoodTrl

[IPT]

i said i don't agree with his actions, why wouldn't he be considered a troll if he's going to be blasting people in threads?
Is TP not trolling when he goes on his Ergodox rants?

I specifically said if he was going to act like that, i don't see how he's any better than those trolls.  Yeah his hearts in the right place, but the method of execution is wrong.

I don't agree with one person going on a crusade on a forum.
I also don't believe in ganging up on people to guilt them into selling stuff at what a vocal minority perceives the sale cost to be.

I believe in following the rules laid out on the forums.
If im not agreeing on how the forum is run, i myself will choose not to participate in the forum or leave.
I don't try to have a revolution.

I like how its a gangup now because i disagree with his method, and somehow im trying to protect myself and my profits lol.

[MKULTRA]

i said i don't agree with his actions, why wouldn't he be considered a troll if he's going to be blasting people in threads?
Is TP not trolling when he goes on his Ergodox rants?

I specifically said if he was going to act like that, i don't see how he's any better than those trolls.  Yeah his hearts in the right place, but the method of execution is wrong.

I like how its a gangup now because i disagree with his method, and somehow im trying to protect myself and my profits lol.

I don't really think TP is a troll.  He obviously is very passionate about eDox.  Nothing wrong with that.