How should samwisekoi run his Group Buy?

[Elrick]

Samwisekoi,

This is a Key-set to be extremely proud of and you want to put them into the Group Buy section of Geekhack as soon as possible.

Don't let any feeble minded-tosser, convince you to remove this from the Geekhack Group Buys and put it into the private SP Vendor Forum section.

They do not own your design, Signature Plastics (wish it was GMK) should only be the manufacturer of this Key-set and nothing else.  Please see the logic of keeping your key-set here within the public forums for all to see and admire.

Don't let some private company control the sale and distribution of your Nuclear Data Keycaps.

[Matt3o]

I'll let samwisekoi answer to that, but if everything with Skull Squadron goes well I believe this will be most likely run by SP.

[Elrick]

I'll let samwisekoi answer to that, but if everything with Skull Squadron goes well I believe this will be most likely run by SP.

How unfortunate you seem to be the card carrying member for Signature Plastics.  Still BunnyLake is the truly independent individual left here on Geekhack and I'm glad he hasn't taken anything from SP in promoting them on a consistent basis.

Just hoping Sam remains an independent person here not swayed by anyone for purely selfish reasons.  After all what's the point of even having Geekhack Group Buys if it ONLY becomes a single selling point for Signature Plastics and nothing else?

[Krogenar]

I'll let samwisekoi answer to that, but if everything with Skull Squadron goes well I believe this will be most likely run by SP.

How unfortunate you seem to be the card carrying member for Signature Plastics.  Still BunnyLake is the truly independent individual left here on Geekhack and I'm glad he hasn't taken anything from SP in promoting them on a consistent basis.

Just hoping Sam remains an independent person here not swayed by anyone for purely selfish reasons.  After all what's the point of even having Geekhack Group Buys if it ONLY becomes a single selling point for Signature Plastics and nothing else?

Sam, I trust you, and I trust SP -- do what you think is in the best interests of getting this keyset into being -- your independent personhood be damned! I'm kidding of course, if an SP rep asks you to sign anything in blood, slaughter any rams, etc. in order to deliver more souls unto their dark dominion, go to legalzoom.com instead.

/sarcasm

Elrick, I like you -- you bring a lot of enthusiasm to GH, but -- why? Why the animosity towards SP? Also, it irks me that you're implying that Matt's an SP shill when you say: "How unfortunate you seem to be the card carrying member for Signature Plastics.  Still BunnyLake is the truly independent individual left here on Geekhack and I'm glad he hasn't taken anything from SP in promoting them on a consistent basis." Excuse my language, but that's a ****ty thing to say about a fellow forum member. Bunnylake is a great GB organizer, why drag him into something this ugly?

What's the source of your animosity towards SP?

Also, no support for a WOPR key, eh? It's the Matthew Broderick, thing, isn't it?

For the record, Sam and Matt are among the very best GB organizers on GH, and I trust their judgement. If you go with SP's groupbuy system, I'm all in, without reservation.

[Matt3o]

these are exactly the things that sadden me to the point of not willing to handle GBs anymore.

[stoic-lemon]

Selfish is not a word I would use to describe Matteo. You just took your usual trolling to whole new level.

[Krogenar]

these are exactly the things that sadden me to the point of not willing to handle GBs anymore.

These sort of antics should make you laugh, Matt -- they are laughable.

[StylinGreymon]

Can't let that sort of thing get you down, Matt3o.
I haven't been here for very long, but you bring a lot to the table.

It was DSA Retro that ignited my interest in keyboards in the first place, and I'd like to see you kicking out awesome stuff like that for a long time to come 
[/off-topic]

[Elrick]

Elrick, I like you -- you bring a lot of enthusiasm to GH, but -- why? Why the animosity towards SP? Also, it irks me that you're implying that Matt's an SP shill when you say: "How unfortunate you seem to be the card carrying member for Signature Plastics.  Still BunnyLake is the truly independent individual left here on Geekhack and I'm glad he hasn't taken anything from SP in promoting them on a consistent basis." Excuse my language, but that's a ****ty thing to say about a fellow forum member.

Umm I like you too but the issue here is

1) SP is fine as a private company that manufactures key-sets for everyone.

2) Geekhack was set up as place to share common interests that include keyboards and key-caps (amongst other things) with no influence from any particular vendor.

3) From this year alone 2014, I experienced this particular behaviour whereby Matt3o designs a key-set and it goes straight to SP vendor sale section almost immediately.  Hence it becomes their property and interest.  Where had the Group Buy gone?  Because it no longer is in the public forum anymore and it seems that now quite possibly most Group Buys will disappear from that section into only one area - SP Vendor Section.

4) If that is the result how can you not conclude that there has been some sort of collusion here because we are adults and not children to be treated with such contempt in trusting a single business entity to run all Group Buys and Distribution.  Hence no input from anyone else is allowed.  Usually in politics when someone participates in promoting a single business entity consistently, what would they be called by the media?  Besides why would being a paid representative be so negative in the eyes of Geekhack here? We already have some vendors willing to sell direct to us here already and they make clear who they represent.

5) I'm not naive to think that money can't buy everything and I don't blame anyone benefiting directly from this but lets make it clear, that this is not like the old days when people ran Group Buys for fun and only wanted fellow geekhackers to benefit.  But the loss of a Public Group Buy becomes another nail in the coffin of our heritage here.  Maybe in the future you'll just have the Interests Section and that's it, because the Public Group Buy will be deleted and replaced by Signature Plastics Vendor Section ONLY.

6) Maybe that's what the future Geekhack forum admins want (pure speculation here) to become a shop front for SP, if that's the case then let it be, who am I to stop that from ever happening.  But lets make this totally clear here if someone asks these questions like in the old days of Geekhack you'll be allowed to air it and have it discussed freely.  But now we have labelled certain entities as "Religious Icons" that should never be questioned or challenged in any way.  Maybe that's the US tradition now but here in convict town we still ask these questions no matter what the consequences shall be.

I usually don't care what others do but when a Group Buy is run you think that it would be performed as it has done for the past 3 to 4 years here.  Suddenly I see a change and that is what's unnerving me here.  I see these dots appearing and I'm joining the lines to create an awful picture of what's to come.......

[SpAmRaY]

I wonder if Elrick is the only one with misgivings: probably not. In order to avoid crapping the thread any more, why not create a topic somewhere and have it out? I think the discussion point is valid as long as people don't resort to name calling and accusations. This isn't really the place to start this though.

On topic: Do any of the members here have one of these terminals? I often see the same picture, but would like to see more detailed shots.

There is a thread for discussing SP group buys here? -> http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54941.0

[regack]

I find this to be an interesting discussion, primarily because I see this as removing a bottleneck and streamlining the process, and making it easier to bring ideas to market.

Let me add a bit of personal perspective: I don't want to ever run a group buy. 

I don't want the responsibility, or the hassle of bringing a product to market - even if it's not for profit and is done at-cost, that's still what a group buy is.   I don't have the time for it.   I don't quite understand how people manage to do it to begin with, but they do, and that's great.

Thing is, sometimes people have neat ideas, but don't have the time or willingness to do the other steps.   They could hand the idea off to someone else and let them run it, or let it just die. 

Matt3o (and Samwisekoi and others that helped) got the DSA retro out without problems (at least from my point of view), but that doesn't mean that either of them want to deal with the hassles involved again.   

In this case the someone that is taking on a lot of the responsibility and risk is not an individual but a company.   A company who makes keycaps.  A company that sorts keycaps.  A company that ships keycaps all over the world.  It's their business.  It's what they do.

They're now providing a slightly different model where more bespoke designs generated by individuals can be handled by them directly instead of through a third party. 

Seems to me this method eliminates a bunch of risk.  This might even reduce costs a bit.  I don't think there is enough information yet to draw a conclusion on that, but logically there should be some cost savings if items don't have to be shipped twice (once to the buy organizer/sorters then to purchasers).   

Is it that you don't like the idea of them selling bespoke designs created by individuals directly and that this should only happen when the creative individual takes on all of the responsibility and risk on their own?   

I can understand your reluctance given some of the growing pains they seem to have had with their software.  I chose to give it a try, make suggestions how they could improve, and try to help make it better.  Nothing is written that says this is the only way to go forward, but it does provide another avenue, and I think it's rather nice to have options.

OP, you are, of course, free to voice your opinion, but it seems that occasionally you stray into more personal territory rather than just stating your reasons why you think something is personally a bad idea.

for example:

I'll let samwisekoi answer to that, but if everything with Skull Squadron goes well I believe this will be most likely run by SP.

How unfortunate you seem to be the card carrying member for Signature Plastics.  Still BunnyLake is the truly independent individual left here on Geekhack and I'm glad he hasn't taken anything from SP in promoting them on a consistent basis.

Just hoping Sam remains an independent person here not swayed by anyone for purely selfish reasons.  After all what's the point of even having Geekhack Group Buys if it ONLY becomes a single selling point for Signature Plastics and nothing else?

You resort to calling Matt3o a 'card carrying member for Signature Plastics'...
You call out BunnyLake as being the only 'truly independent individual left'...
You suggest that samwisekoi would be 'selfish' for taking on the responsibility and time to run a group buy that he may have neither the desire or time for...

I would offer that you could just have easily said something more like this:

Matt3o, I do not agree with your decision to let Signature Plastics run the Skull Squadron group buy, but I particpated anyway because your design was so super-awesome extra great.  I wish you had chosen to run your buy in the more traditional manner, using that software interface you so beautifully crafted for DSA retro.

I feel that this new method of having Signature Plastics run the group buy takes away from the community aspects of the Group Buy process and furthermore moves the community into more consumer driven realm.  I, for one, do not like this change, and fear that eventually this might break apart and fracture the community further. 

I respectfully request that Samwisekoi consider these thoughts before deciding on a final course of action for how to proceed with this group buy.   I am willing to support the buy in any way I can to help keep this run in a more traditional manner.

Anyway, just my thoughts and opinions.  Also, my apologies for the wall of text.

[rowdy]

I'll just mention DSA Dolch.

If SP had been handling that from start to finish there would be a lot less woe and a lot more keycaps.

[Krogenar]

I think the title of this thread is sort of ridiculous -- like the argument itself. Who the hell are we to say how sam or matt, or anyone else should run their groupbuy? If you don't like how they're doing it, don't buy into it. There's a busybody quality to the discussion that feels out of place.

Samwisekoi should run his GB however the hell he feels.

As for the SP sponsored groupbuy, I think it's a great idea. I would hope that gb organizers would give SP's software a try as it eliminates a lot of the headaches attributed to a 'traditional' groupbuys:

1. Collection -- PayPal isn't going to raise red flags when a full-blown corporation collects payments.
2. Sorting -- protecting the mental state of organizers is important.
3. Shipping -- See 2.
4. Ordering -- realtime updates on tipping points and pricing.
5. Profit -- I know, I know, this is evil -- but not all creative people want to live in cardboard boxes on street corners, filtering grain alcohol through burnt pieces of toast in order to benefit the community.

And again, this is with SP, a company that's been very good to this community in the past. So let's stop treating them like EvilCo. Inc. As for profiting from a GB, I don't think it's a public evil. When organizers lose money by running a groupbuy, that is a public evil, because only the most altruistic people will continue to organize groupbuys under those conditions.

[Matt3o]

Krogenar, you are my new own personal Jesus Christ.

[Krogenar]

Krogenar, you are my new own personal Jesus Christ.

"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of hipster commie self-martyrs, I will fear no collectivist idiocy: for thou art with me; thy walls of argumentative text and thy support for free markets comfort me."

[bueller]

I think the title of this thread is sort of ridiculous -- like the argument itself. Who the hell are we to say how sam or matt, or anyone else should run their groupbuy? If you don't like how they're doing it, don't buy into it. There's a busybody quality to the discussion that feels out of place.

Samwisekoi should run his GB however the hell he feels.

As for the SP sponsored groupbuy, I think it's a great idea. I would hope that gb organizers would give SP's software a try as it eliminates a lot of the headaches attributed to a 'traditional' groupbuys:

1. Collection -- PayPal isn't going to raise red flags when a full-blown corporation collects payments.
2. Sorting -- protecting the mental state of organizers is important.
3. Shipping -- See 2.
4. Ordering -- realtime updates on tipping points and pricing.
5. Profit -- I know, I know, this is evil -- but not all creative people want to live in cardboard boxes on street corners, filtering grain alcohol through burnt pieces of toast in order to benefit the community.

And again, this is with SP, a company that's been very good to this community in the past. So let's stop treating them like EvilCo. Inc. As for profiting from a GB, I don't think it's a public evil. When organizers lose money by running a groupbuy, that is a public evil, because only the most altruistic people will continue to organize groupbuys under those conditions.

Krogenar, droppin knowledge.

[ApocalypseMaow]

I think the title of this thread is sort of ridiculous -- like the argument itself. Who the hell are we to say how sam or matt, or anyone else should run their groupbuy? If you don't like how they're doing it, don't buy into it. There's a busybody quality to the discussion that feels out of place.

Samwisekoi should run his GB however the hell he feels.

As for the SP sponsored groupbuy, I think it's a great idea. I would hope that gb organizers would give SP's software a try as it eliminates a lot of the headaches attributed to a 'traditional' groupbuys:

1. Collection -- PayPal isn't going to raise red flags when a full-blown corporation collects payments.
2. Sorting -- protecting the mental state of organizers is important.
3. Shipping -- See 2.
4. Ordering -- realtime updates on tipping points and pricing.
5. Profit -- I know, I know, this is evil -- but not all creative people want to live in cardboard boxes on street corners, filtering grain alcohol through burnt pieces of toast in order to benefit the community.

And again, this is with SP, a company that's been very good to this community in the past. So let's stop treating them like EvilCo. Inc. As for profiting from a GB, I don't think it's a public evil. When organizers lose money by running a groupbuy, that is a public evil, because only the most altruistic people will continue to organize groupbuys under those conditions.

/thread

[davkol]

I think the title of this thread is sort of ridiculous -- like the argument itself. Who the hell are we to say how sam or matt, or anyone else should run their groupbuy? If you don't like how they're doing it, don't buy into it. There's a busybody quality to the discussion that feels out of place.

Samwisekoi should run his GB however the hell he feels.

Well, yeah...

KrogenarPrime: Socialist in Disguise

I think several important questions have been raised, such as

• Is the SP's marketplace only a platform, or do they actually gain rights to subjects of the GBs?
• Personally, I'm not particularly impressed by SP's products, but there's a lack of competition currently (note that I'm not focusing on aesthetics in the first place). Doesn't moving GBs to SP limit future opportunities to use a different manufacturer?
• What chances are there that GH will turn into another head-fi.org, if people who run the forum get involved too closely in commercial vendors' activities?
• Communities are based on the concept of a web of trust; dealing directly with a commercial vendor essentially eliminates it though. Doesn't it hurt the community in the long run?

I don't know, nor have I made any significant research... I'd be glad, if I get directed to some material on the topic, provided it has been already covered.

[SpAmRaY]

I think the title of this thread is sort of ridiculous -- like the argument itself. Who the hell are we to say how sam or matt, or anyone else should run their groupbuy? If you don't like how they're doing it, don't buy into it. There's a busybody quality to the discussion that feels out of place.

Samwisekoi should run his GB however the hell he feels.

Well, yeah...

KrogenarPrime: Socialist in Disguise

I think several important questions have been raised, such as

• Is the SP's marketplace only a platform, or do they actually gain rights to subjects of the GBs?
• Personally, I'm not particularly impressed by SP's products, but there's a lack of competition currently (note that I'm not focusing on aesthetics in the first place). Doesn't moving GBs to SP limit future opportunities to use a different manufacturer?
• What chances are there that GH will turn into another head-fi.org, if people who run the forum get involved too closely in commercial vendors' activities?
• Communities are based on the concept of a web of trust; dealing directly with a commercial vendor essentially eliminates it though. Doesn't it hurt the community in the long run?

I don't know, nor have I made any significant research... I'd be glad, if I get directed to some material on the topic, provided it has been already covered.

Matt3o says SP does NOT get the 'rights' to the sets.

Nobody is moving group buys to SP, SP is just providing a front end for running them and also doing all the leg work of manufacturing, sorting, packing, billing and shipping. A geekhacker or anyone for that matter can design and advertise their set.

[Matt3o]

Matt3o says SP does NOT get the 'rights' to the sets.

since SP asked me permission to use one of my designs, I'm pretty sure about this.

[tjcaustin]

Matt3o says SP does NOT get the 'rights' to the sets.

since SP asked me permission to use one of my designs, I'm pretty sure about this.

And think of how many times you have to go hat in hand to OTD to get stepped caps locks, or 7bit for his mod legends or now GH for the cherry replica fonts...

I honestly think you've been dropped on your head, elrick.  Or you try too hard to be controversial with little actual forethought or reason behind it.

Biggest plus this brings?

You: "SP, I'm missing a thing (or my order was lost in the mail), please to be helping"
SP: "Replacement is on the way, many apologies about the inconvenience"

The old way for comparison

You: "GBO, I'm missing a thing (or my order was lost in the mail), please to be helping"
GBO: "I have to pay SP more money to get anything done because all the original money is gone.  Signed - Not Mr. Moneybags"

[Krogenar]

I think the title of this thread is sort of ridiculous -- like the argument itself. Who the hell are we to say how sam or matt, or anyone else should run their groupbuy? If you don't like how they're doing it, don't buy into it. There's a busybody quality to the discussion that feels out of place.

Samwisekoi should run his GB however the hell he feels.

Well, yeah...

Yeah, but ... how much social pressure can people try to level at Sam (and others) to go the 'traditional' GB route? That's what I wonder about. Sure, anyone can do whatever they want, but are some people going to try to impose a social cost? That's up to samwisekoi and others to decide.

KrogenarPrime: Socialist in Disguise

I gave someone something free just one time (in a moment of weakness) and so this is the title I get. I'm an avowed capitalist.

Communities are based on the concept of a web of trust; dealing directly with a commercial vendor essentially eliminates it though. Doesn't it hurt the community in the long run?

With respect, this reads as a non sequitur to me. We start with a community of hobbyists who trust one another, and then some members deal directly with a commercial vendor, and it's the equivalent of dropping a dog turd into the communal ice cream? Trust is vital to business interactions as well. The problem I see here is that some people regard corporations and the profit motive with at best a deep skepticism and at worst open hostility. Does every corporation treat its clients with respect and earn their trust? Nope. But most do -- those that lose that trust quickly fade away, as they should.

Signature Plastics, however, has a proven track record with this community and others -- they've earned the trust of some people around here, shouldn't that count for something? Also, the profit motive is fine with me because it's honest. I want new and awesome keycaps -- SP wants to keep their machinery and people in motion, and make a profit in the process. If we can both manage to meet the other's needs, there's no need for anyone to be an economic martyr.

The problem here is the attitude that people who want to make money (or not lose it) somehow contaminates the purity of the hobby. Well, to hell with that -- let's make some keycaps instead of being martyrs. Look at what their system could do -- anyone with a great idea for keycaps could get it out into the world with much less hassle. Because let's face it -- why does Sam, Matt, Bunnylake and others run their GBs? For the joy of sorting? Shipping? Packing? The death struggles with PayPal? No, they do it for the creative aspect of it -- that's my guess anyway, maybe some of them are closet masochists? SP's groupbuy system will free them from the drudgery so they can focus on the making.

I'm very excited about this development and hope it works. I wonder if GMK and other manufacturers will follow suit and field their own GB systems?

[DamienG]

Samwisekoi, Matt3o and indeed anyone else should be free to run their group-buys any way they want.

SP seem to be very proactive in offloading a lot of the work - in the DSA retro case they had put together the various sub-sets and now with the web site they've removed the final pick 'n pack and payment overhead too leaving creative people like these two to concentrate on great designs without the massive amount of extra work necessary to handle logistics.

"Just hoping Sam remains an independent person here not swayed by anyone for purely selfish reasons.  After all what's the point of even having Geekhack Group Buys if it ONLY becomes a single selling point for Signature Plastics and nothing else?"

I'd say the selfish reasons are expecting others to put much more effort into group-buys so you can presumably save some money.

The way capitalism works is that if somebody has a superior solution they often get a lions share of the market for a while. Others then see they need to up their game to compete and do so and the market stabilizes again. From what I understand right now GMK requires large MOQ's and don't offer any services to offload the logistics of organizing and shipping the production. They'd have to do better. Competition!

[)amien

[davkol]

Does every corporation treat its clients with respect and earn their trust? Nope. But most do -- those that lose that trust quickly fade away, as they should.

Oh, I guess you have ignored e.g. "leaders" in ICT (not to mention other industries/markets) for a while.

Signature Plastics, however, has a proven track record with this community and others -- they've earned the trust of some people around here, shouldn't that count for something? Also, the profit motive is fine with me because it's honest. I want new and awesome keycaps -- SP wants to keep their machinery and people in motion, and make a profit in the process. If we can both manage to meet the other's needs, there's no need for anyone to be an economic martyr.

And then there are people who miss something in that equation. That's all I wanted to point out.

[Krogenar]

Does every corporation treat its clients with respect and earn their trust? Nope. But most do -- those that lose that trust quickly fade away, as they should.

Oh, I guess you have ignored e.g. "leaders" in ICT (not to mention other industries/markets) for a while.

I acknowledged that the system is not perfect in the very statement you quoted. I don't think Signature Plastics quite compares to utility corporations, and large scale media companies forming monopolies. Is GMK going to buy SP, and form a super monopoly on plastic keycaps? Is that your fear?

Signature Plastics, however, has a proven track record with this community and others -- they've earned the trust of some people around here, shouldn't that count for something? Also, the profit motive is fine with me because it's honest. I want new and awesome keycaps -- SP wants to keep their machinery and people in motion, and make a profit in the process. If we can both manage to meet the other's needs, there's no need for anyone to be an economic martyr.

And then there are people who miss something in that equation. That's all I wanted to point out.

Right, they're socialists. A simple, honest transaction just isn't good enough for them -- there must be sacrifice ("I lost money on this GB.") or a declaration of social fidelity ("All proceeds will be donated to Geekhack.") or some such.  Well, the community is outgrowing this attitude. Soon, people with good ideas for keycaps won't have to pass your little trials and tests. They can just talk about their idea, garner support, and partner with a manufacturer and make it happen.

Without you.

Glorious.

[demik]

mmmm the smell of fox news in the afternoon

[Krogenar]

mmmm the smell of fox news in the afternoon

Smells likes victory, of common sense. 

[iri]

1. put krogenar on the ignore list
2. go to this thread
3. see other people talking to krogenar
4. click the "show me the post" links on krogenar's posts to the what it's about
5. continue ignoring krogenar

[Krogenar]

1. put krogenar on the ignore list
2. go to this thread
3. see other people talking to krogenar
4. click the "show me the post" links on krogenar's posts to the what it's about
5. continue ignoring krogenar

This warms my black, tarry capitalist heart. Thank you.

[stoic-lemon]

Whatever did he do to make you put him on your ignore list?

[Matt3o]

what were we talking about again?

[Krogenar]

--NUKED FROM ORBIT--

That's funny.

Got anything relevant to the thread to contribute besides a personal attack on me? Should GB organizers shun systems like SP's groupbuy system or embrace them? I've made my argument in favor of them, but all you can do is attack me personally. Demik drops a useless, nebulous comment about FoxNews ("We Report. You Decide.") and you point out that I'm on your ignore list. Why aren't you attacking the ideas that irk you, instead of the person or people who espouse them? My theory: your ideas are weak.

I'm taking everyone off my ignore list, as I end up just reading their posts anyway!

At least other people in your camp contributed something of value -- like the question of ownership of keycap designs. That was an important issue, and was resolved.

[stoic-lemon]

All I see is that it gives more people a chance to make their cool ideas a reality. Nothing wrong with people making money as long as nobody gets shafted and everyone gets what they want.

Unfortunately, some people may miss out on SP buys if they aren't on the Group Buys page, but it really is a tough call. I'll continue to take part in the buys if I like the caps; end of story.

[Tarzan]

1. put krogenar on the ignore list
2. go to this thread
3. see other people talking to krogenar
4. click the "show me the post" links on krogenar's posts to the what it's about
5. continue ignoring krogenar

Yep.  My experience exactly.

[mzero]

I believe this just another evolution, the GB process is more efficient. Other vendors can build their own platforms to make GB cheaper, safer, faster, low-risks, etc. As I do have an e-commerce background, when I saw SPs site I said this is great more people will come with new ideas and they don't will have to execute it, just start it!
Maybe the starter doesn't want to declare all money that receives from a GB, and to pay taxes, or to get stressed... This a painless process for the designer, if he/she gets some reward from the vendor, that's great! If a starter wants to make with old-fashion way, it's ok.
Be free to choose and let others to choose!

[pasph]

Maybe we just wait and see how Macross GB will go?

[digi]

[tbc]

any one made a 'jimmiesrustle' keyset yet? 13 characters for the number row + gorilla for backspace?

[MOZ]

I for one support this, there will be some hitches in the along the way, but when are there not, when you start something new.

SP has been great in accommodating our small runs, it isn't always about the money, but even for small sets, there is the hassle and all, and that is why GMK doesn't do anything less than 250 sets (Earlier 400). Besides, they work to create new legends, now working on DSA PBT as well a few members on the forum. GMK on the other hand refuses to even make new legends. Yes, GMK has better keycap quality, and I agree, but as far as community involvement/accommodation goes, they stand nowhere next to SP.

Having run a few GBs myself now, I can say for sure, that the hardest part is the offline logisitics, of sort and shipping, most cumbersome, boring and time consuming as hell, not to mention repetitive and frustrating. Now, SP is providing an opportunity to have a MD like structure, but customised for keycaps and without the 15% surcharge, and not to forget the many other benefits highlighted earlier in this thread.

Elrick is ofcourse entitled to have his opinion and so is anyone else, as far as I see it, it is the prerogative of the:
- Group boy organiser to choose how they want to distribute their product
- Buyer to choose if they want to buy the set or not

And noone else has a say in this except ofcourse the GH mods and the sense malice, then they can step in.

[iri]

--NUKED FROM ORBIT--
« Last Edit: 13-03-2014, 23:39:06 by hashbaz »

how i like this guess-which-your-random-post-was-modded on geekhack!

[hashbaz]

--NUKED FROM ORBIT--
« Last Edit: 13-03-2014, 23:39:06 by hashbaz »

how i like this guess-which-your-random-post-was-modded on geekhack!

I'm glad you enjoy it.

[iri]

well, i was aware of that moderation here is far from perfect.

[demik]

Fwiw i enjoyed the post iri

[Matt3o]

welcome back, I missed you

[Krogenar]

NUKED FROM ORBIT? 

I always pictured hashbaz at the very tip of the Washington Monument, just crammed in there with a scoped raygun, a listening device and a box of Wheat Thins.

[hashbaz]

Nukes are the only way to be sure.

[Novus]

I prefer the allied weather control device.

[davkol]

I prefer the psychic dominator.

[Lighthouse1]

I'll just mention DSA Dolch.

If SP had been handling that from start to finish there would be a lot less woe and a lot more keycaps.

Whatever the debate (and I don't think anyone can really much care how someone runs a GB except the person running it) I have to agree with this, I wish that GB had had someone better on it (though it's on my own head I bought into it).

I think people should run their GB's as they like, minimising the chance of loss to themselves as much as possible. Some of the GB's I have been in in my short time here are run as if it was a professional company doing it..so I can't see the harm in giving it to a professional to help with. Sorting those keys must drive people nuts for a start.

[naasfu]

I love wheat thins.

Oh, and I'm thankful for everyone dedicated enough to put in their time, sanity, and patience into organizing a group buy.