Author Topic: F1 2015  (Read 51288 times)

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Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #150 on: Thu, 23 April 2015, 04:13:50 »
It's not a rant it's a well reasoned and a bunch of good points.

But I think there needs to be a point at which technology doesn't drive the car. The problem with a lot of the advancements is that they took away much of the skill and ability of the drivers, look at the 90s when all the cars ran launch control, the start was a formality as the cars did all the work, the cars with the best systems had the best starts. The FIA has to balance technology with racing.

I don't really agree with electric motors not having a place in F1 or other motorsports, battery technology is very important to the future of almost all aspects of life in the present and future, weather that be cars or anything else. The technological drive for that technology is going on in WEC and F1 and I think it could and should make the cars faster and more fun to watch.

Imagine a higher revving more powerful engine like this;
feature=youtu.be

powering a car of half the weight!

Offline Oobly

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #151 on: Fri, 24 April 2015, 05:47:23 »
It's not a rant it's a well reasoned and a bunch of good points.

But I think there needs to be a point at which technology doesn't drive the car. The problem with a lot of the advancements is that they took away much of the skill and ability of the drivers, look at the 90s when all the cars ran launch control, the start was a formality as the cars did all the work, the cars with the best systems had the best starts. The FIA has to balance technology with racing.

I don't really agree with electric motors not having a place in F1 or other motorsports, battery technology is very important to the future of almost all aspects of life in the present and future, weather that be cars or anything else. The technological drive for that technology is going on in WEC and F1 and I think it could and should make the cars faster and more fun to watch.

Imagine a higher revving more powerful engine like this;
feature=youtu.be

powering a car of half the weight!

Whoa! That corner speed is pretty good :)

I agree, though. Launch control and the extreme traction control systems they were running were making the machine do too much work and not letting the driver do enough. That's boring, even in a road car.

Battery tech is useful, and improving it is fine, but I don't think the top motor sport classes are the place for it. Especially since it's not actually going to drive better battery development, IMHO. That's dependent on the guys in the research labs, figuring out different materials and methods at a nanoscale, not race engineers and I'm not sure throwing more money at them and putting on more pressure will result in breakthroughs coming much quicker. But I may be wrong. :)

Braking absorbs a lot of energy really quickly, so you need a system that can store energy rapidly and has a large capacity. With electricity you have supercapacitors that can store energy quicky, but can't hold that much and you have battery tech that can store a reasonable amount, but can't absorb it that quickly. Both are heavy, though.

I'm interested in pressurised air KERS. After all, you've already got a pretty good air pump as a main drive unit and the storage can be pretty light, although not that compact. Just have to use really good insulation so you don't lose too much pressurisation heat for when you want to use it again. Apparently Audi was working on a system in 2012 for their LMP cars, but they kept it pretty quiet.
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Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #152 on: Fri, 24 April 2015, 05:50:11 »
It's not a rant it's a well reasoned and a bunch of good points.

But I think there needs to be a point at which technology doesn't drive the car. The problem with a lot of the advancements is that they took away much of the skill and ability of the drivers, look at the 90s when all the cars ran launch control, the start was a formality as the cars did all the work, the cars with the best systems had the best starts. The FIA has to balance technology with racing.

I don't really agree with electric motors not having a place in F1 or other motorsports, battery technology is very important to the future of almost all aspects of life in the present and future, weather that be cars or anything else. The technological drive for that technology is going on in WEC and F1 and I think it could and should make the cars faster and more fun to watch.

Imagine a higher revving more powerful engine like this;
feature=youtu.be

powering a car of half the weight!

Whoa! That corner speed is pretty good :)

I agree, though. Launch control and the extreme traction control systems they were running were making the machine do too much work and not letting the driver do enough. That's boring, even in a road car.

Battery tech is useful, and improving it is fine, but I don't think the top motor sport classes are the place for it. Especially since it's not actually going to drive better battery development, IMHO. That's dependent on the guys in the research labs, figuring out different materials and methods at a nanoscale, not race engineers and I'm not sure throwing more money at them and putting on more pressure will result in breakthroughs coming much quicker. But I may be wrong. :)

Braking absorbs a lot of energy really quickly, so you need a system that can store energy rapidly and has a large capacity. With electricity you have supercapacitors that can store energy quicky, but can't hold that much and you have battery tech that can store a reasonable amount, but can't absorb it that quickly. Both are heavy, though.

I'm interested in pressurised air KERS. After all, you've already got a pretty good air pump as a main drive unit and the storage can be pretty light, although not that compact. Just have to use really good insulation so you don't lose too much pressurisation heat for when you want to use it again. Apparently Audi was working on a system in 2012 for their LMP cars, but they kept it pretty quiet.

It's all about balancing the high end super tech and the insane costs with it so that more teams are able to take part and compete. Though I do feel that cars need to be faster and that the jump from GP2 to F1 isn't big enough. The last thing we need is GP2 drivers coming to F1 drivers as test or reserve drivers saying; "well the apex speed is about the same, but the power is incredible" ...we want them saying "holy **** these cars are insane!"


And yeah, Monza without chicances and a WHOLE ****LOAD of downforce = hitting it at about 205mph and not lifting

Offline katushkin

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #153 on: Sat, 25 April 2015, 04:08:24 »
I think the BBC have the best part of the broadcasting deal this year. The only race i'm disappointed they don't have is the US GP. And Monza I guess. But their negotiators did a really great job.
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Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #154 on: Sat, 25 April 2015, 10:29:50 »
Sky coverage is better though, teds notebook is awesome

Offline Oobly

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #155 on: Tue, 28 April 2015, 05:44:35 »
I just wanted to make my point about energy densities of different storage mechanisms a bit clearer, for those who think batteries are still a decent form of energy storage for transportation or simply for those interested in seeing some simple calculations and my thoughts regarding it (and a little info about KERS). Off topic for the thread title, but this is the Off Topic section, right?  ;)

More
Specific energy (MJ/kg) of competing storage systems:
Supercapacitor: 0.018
Li-ion: 0.36->0.875
Methanol: 19.7
Petrol: 44.4
Diesel: 48

Of course an internal combustion engine (and associated gubbins' to make it work) is a fair chunk bigger and heavier than the power cables, ESC and electric motor needed for electric power AND the electric motor system is a LOT more efficient, so let's do another calculation:

A 200hp electric motor weighs roughly 40kg (expensive, but very light), let's be generous and say the cables and ESC weigh 3kg.
A 200hp IC engine weighs roughly 130kg (Ford Duratec) and let's add a radiator and fan of say 20kg = 150kg

So if you allow a relatively small 200kg for engine and fuel:

157kg battery = 57.6 to 140MJ
50kg petrol = 2220MJ

And taking efficiency into account:

140MJ @ 70% = 140*0.7= 98MJ
2220MJ @ 20% = 2220*0.2 = 444MJ

So the petrol system has more than 4x the amount of useful energy. Even if they manage to double battery energy density (and theoretical maximum energy density of nanoscale graphene and other "super-battery" technologies are way overstated and overhyped, with real improvements likely to be less than 50%), it's still not going to be anywhere near the liquid fuel numbers. It only gets worse for the electric system as you allow more weight. For example, at 250kg the petrol system has 7x the energy.

A hybrid has the weight of both systems and practically all the energy comes from the fuel, the only benefit is improved overall efficiency since you can run the engine at its most efficient speed at all times. The efficiency tests for cars are massively biased in favour of hybrids (and give useless figures), since they allow full batteries at the start of testing and empty at the end and ONLY measure fuel used.

So if we can make a smaller, lighter, more efficient IC engine across its entire rev range (which I believe is entirely possible, but not using reciprocating pistons, energy-sapping valves and materials that can't take the heat and need to be cooled. Standard piston engines are horrifically inefficient.) there simply is no place for electric motors and batteries in the drivetrain of a car (except as starter motors, but this may be redundant depending on the KERS system implemented, which brings me to my next point).

"But what about KERS?" I hear you ask. Batteries can't store the braking energy fast enough, so some braking energy still has to be thrown away as heat (by using normal brake discs). Supercapactors are not ready for use in cars, and even if they were, the amount of energy generated in braking a car from 60km/h to 0 (same as the energy required to accelerate it to that speed in the same time taken for braking) would require a VERY heavy supercapacitor and there is a fairly large leakage current which causes self-discharge, but then again, all KERS systems lose energy slowly with the vehicle not in motion. A hybrid system with a high charge rate Li-ion or LiFePO4 main storage and smallish supercapacitor will do a better job than just a Li-ion, but not a whole lot better, limited by the capacity of the supercapacitor and how quickly you can transfer the energy to the main battery.

Air can be compressed very rapidly and stored fairly easily in a lightweight high pressure system. It can also be used for starting the engine and as a stop / start system. If it's insulated well, the heat energy generated in compression remains present in the gas and be used when expanding it again for acceleration. You can also use it to run any pneumatic systems you happen to have in the vehicle. Simpler and lighter than electric or flywheel, but not so easy to design and implement, particularly the valve system and safety mechanisms. I'm hoping Audi continue development of compressed air KERS and introduce it in one of their future LMP cars.

I prefer a "pure" compressed air system to the Peugeot / Citroen liquid / gas system.
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Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #156 on: Tue, 28 April 2015, 06:04:01 »
feature=youtu.be

was the sound of that going over my head haha

Offline baldgye

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Offline Oobly

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #158 on: Wed, 29 April 2015, 08:33:49 »
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/williams-hybrid-tech-power-london-buses

Interesting. Thanks for the link.

Volvo have also been working on using flywheel KERS: http://www.topgear.com/uk/volvo/s60/road-test/s60-t5-kers

And of course the Porsche 918 has a flywheel KERS system co-developed with Williams :)

Kind of ironic that Williams use electric KERS in F1, though, due to packaging difficulties with the flywheel system.

I must applaud them for the way they're developing their technologies for other sectors. Of course it's part of their business model, but it's still nice to see.
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Offline Oobly

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #159 on: Wed, 29 April 2015, 08:36:48 »
And now that we have a little break between races, what's your favourite driving game?

I'm seriously considering getting Assetto Corsa. And perhaps an Oculus DK2... maybe. Already got a G25 :)

I play Forza 4 a lot on my XB360.
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Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #160 on: Wed, 29 April 2015, 08:52:28 »
Ok well this is something I'm pretty passionate about see. I also have tried to do my best and give most racing games a good crack (bar iRacing because I don't have a wheel).
For my money, without question, the best racing game on the market at the moment is Gran Turismo 6. It's the perfect balance between sim and arcade game. It has a career mode and challenges that are enjoyable and that allow you to build up a massive collection of cars. The improved physics and library of cars and tracks over GT5 is pretty big, and the special Senna content pack is brilliant. There is also a lot of totally free DLC still planned for GT6 along with a GPS mapping course maker.

I have Assetto Corsa and I've been playing around with it since early access and to be honest, it's a ****ing mess. The AI is all over the place, in a GT3 event I can after a single lap pull out a 10 second gap to the guy in p2 but in an open wheel GP2 car I'll fall 30+ seconds off the guy in last place.
On top of that the car selection and track selection is pretty slim and the menu's and career mode is a travesty. It's a mess and from the early access not much has changed, other than the pretty offensive and hella expensive DLC...

everything else including forza just seem like dull casual games :/

I'm waiting for project cars tho
« Last Edit: Wed, 29 April 2015, 08:56:55 by baldgye »

Offline evolveS

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #161 on: Wed, 29 April 2015, 13:30:53 »
I finally preordered Project Cars on Saturday, after being on the fence for many months. It'll be my first racing or sim game besides a demo of Trackmania long ago, I'm very excited.
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Offline Oobly

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #162 on: Thu, 30 April 2015, 01:56:06 »
I see. That's quite some experience. I'm a much more "casual" gamer. I just love to drive, and since my favourite driving car (modified classic mini) is in a different country (I moved to Finland from South Africa) I take what I can get from my PC and XBox.

... Gran Turismo 6. It's the perfect balance between sim and arcade game. ...

Hehe. That's how I feel about Forza 4 :) It has better physics (suspension and tires) than GT5, at least IMO. In the limited testing I did at  my friends place GT5 cars didn't feel right in the corners. Haven't tried any of the latest generation of console titles and won't be getting a XBone or PS4 any time soon, so Forza 4 and my PC are going to have to keep me satisfied.

I'm not so concerned about competetive play, as long as the cars feel right and there are some nice cars to drive, it's okay for me. I may have to give both Assetto Corsa and Project Cars a try.

I find it interesting how different people evaluate the graphics of these differently. I prefer the look of Assetto Corsa over Project Cars and think it looks more realistic, others say the opposite. I guess it has to do with the particular lighting / texture cues that you care about most. This is another thing I didn't like about GT5, the shadows / area lighting around and under the cars didn't look right and this broke the immersion for me.

If you or a friend happen to have Forza 4, I have discovered a fantastically fun (although sometimes frustrating) car to drive. Get a Renault 5 turbo and upgrade it to Class A... massive power in a mid engined, rear drive tiny, light hatchback. If you can stop the rear end from breaking free under power (although a lot of power slides are still mostly controllable) it's just a blast to drive. And the replays are often worth saving :D Managed to roll it once on a relatively straight, clear section of road ;)

Another favourite is the 1989 Toyota MR2 upgraded to Class A. Much more predictable and drivable, but can also get a bit lairy if you're not smooth. It's the one I drive for a tough class A race and it's important to win.
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Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #163 on: Thu, 30 April 2015, 02:05:50 »
I see. That's quite some experience. I'm a much more "casual" gamer. I just love to drive, and since my favourite driving car (modified classic mini) is in a different country (I moved to Finland from South Africa) I take what I can get from my PC and XBox.

... Gran Turismo 6. It's the perfect balance between sim and arcade game. ...

Hehe. That's how I feel about Forza 4 :) It has better physics (suspension and tires) than GT5, at least IMO. In the limited testing I did at  my friends place GT5 cars didn't feel right in the corners. Haven't tried any of the latest generation of console titles and won't be getting a XBone or PS4 any time soon, so Forza 4 and my PC are going to have to keep me satisfied.

I'm not so concerned about competetive play, as long as the cars feel right and there are some nice cars to drive, it's okay for me. I may have to give both Assetto Corsa and Project Cars a try.

I find it interesting how different people evaluate the graphics of these differently. I prefer the look of Assetto Corsa over Project Cars and think it looks more realistic, others say the opposite. I guess it has to do with the particular lighting / texture cues that you care about most. This is another thing I didn't like about GT5, the shadows / area lighting around and under the cars didn't look right and this broke the immersion for me.

If you or a friend happen to have Forza 4, I have discovered a fantastically fun (although sometimes frustrating) car to drive. Get a Renault 5 turbo and upgrade it to Class A... massive power in a mid engined, rear drive tiny, light hatchback. If you can stop the rear end from breaking free under power (although a lot of power slides are still mostly controllable) it's just a blast to drive. And the replays are often worth saving :D Managed to roll it once on a relatively straight, clear section of road ;)

Another favourite is the 1989 Toyota MR2 upgraded to Class A. Much more predictable and drivable, but can also get a bit lairy if you're not smooth. It's the one I drive for a tough class A race and it's important to win.

Forza 4 is the last one for 360? I got a 360 pretty much just a week or so before the xbox one was announced and got the newest Forza and played with that and really didn't like it.
It looked nice but the tracks were silly and the way the cars handled at speed seemed pretty silly, it was so difficult to actual race at high speed that I just got fed up and went back to GT5 where I find the cars to be more reliable in how they behave.

From a graphics and sound pov the GT series is pretty weak, but then its aims have always been to model the physics as best they can and graphics and sound take a back seat. I think the audio is a real problem with the GT series though.. playing Assetto Corsa I just like playing it to hear the cars and how they actually sound. I have no doubt that Project Cars will be a better game than AC though. AC is an unfinished mess of a game that you spend more time setting it up for things rather than actually playing.

If I where you I wouldn't waste your money on AC and save that money for Project Cars DLC lol

Offline Oobly

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #164 on: Thu, 30 April 2015, 08:29:21 »
I still think the suspension and tires react more realistically in Forza 4 than GT5.

An interesting poll: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/forza-4-vs-gt5-physics.275742/
Another interesting poll ;)   https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/forza-4-vs-gt5-physics-read-the-first-post-before-contributing.226995/

You can trail brake in GT5 more than should be realistically possible without losing traction (so you can drive more "aggressively" in GT without spinning out) and the suspension doesn't damp quickly enough. Getting a nudge has more effect in Forza, too, and the damage is realistic, mechanically, if not visually. You can really feel the effects of loading up the suspension in Forza (and getting the balance wrong when changing direction). I feel like GT5 is more arcady, despite the effort they say they take to make it realistic. And then there's the car choices. More European cars and less MX-5's ;) One is enough for me.

The upgrades and tuning also work very realistically in Forza and that's an aspect I enjoy, tweaking an almost perfect car into perfection. I just wish MS hadn't crippled / nerfed wheel support, so I can't use my G25 properly with Forza. I have an MS wheel, but it really sucks in comparison.

I kind of agree that pCars is a better game, but I think AC is a better simulator. Project Cars is made by the guys who made NFS Shift and Shift 2. Assetto Corsa is made by the guys who did netKar Pro and some other simulation titles with that engine. The track surfaces and cars are more detailed and the physics is better. From what I've been reading the audio isn't as good and the AI kind of sucks, though. I really prefer the visual style of AC and the physics is more important to me than many other aspects. For racing against the AI and more options than just driving a nice car around a nice track, I think Project Cars would be better. So it really is a bit of a toss up between them for me. I may just have to try both, but my gut is saying I'd prefer the actual driving experience with AC.


« Last Edit: Thu, 30 April 2015, 08:31:13 by Oobly »
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Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #165 on: Thu, 30 April 2015, 08:38:00 »
GT6 is better than both F4 and GT5 tho.. lol

ahh I made a mistake and put GT5 instead of GT6
« Last Edit: Thu, 30 April 2015, 08:39:59 by baldgye »

Offline Oobly

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #166 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 04:01:57 »
GT6 is better than both F4 and GT5 tho.. lol

ahh I made a mistake and put GT5 instead of GT6

Well.. except for the unrealistically grippy tires and the lack of lift-off oversteer and torque steer. ;)

Still, IMO the tire simulation of Forza is better (4 better than GT5, 5 better than GT6), which makes cornering more realistic, which is really the most important aspect to get right. Cornering just doesn't behave correctly in either GT to me. On the other hand, Forza 4 does have a little bit of extra slidiness that shouldn't be there at higher speeds or tricky situations, where a real car would either still grip or just let go. It's better in Forza 5 and GT6, though.

In the end it comes down to which one feels more like it should to you, and for me that's Forza.

I don't think either are anywhere near as good as Asetto Corsa would be with a 900 degree wheel, though. PC is always best for simulation.
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Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #167 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 04:20:53 »
Fair enough.
I don't like Forza at all and its physics seem to be far too arcadey for my liking.

Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #168 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 04:32:49 »
One thing that is worth mentioning tho, because gt is made by crazy people, the proper tire physics are only enabled or can only be enabled in online lobbies. Something I found out when practicing for my online endurance series.... Makes the cars behave a fair bit differently lol

Offline Dihedral

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #169 on: Mon, 04 May 2015, 05:32:24 »
And now that we have a little break between races, what's your favourite driving game?

I'm seriously considering getting Assetto Corsa. And perhaps an Oculus DK2... maybe. Already got a G25 :)

I play Forza 4 a lot on my XB360.

Only have F1 2014. Interested in AC though. Having a wheel makes it a lot more fun

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #170 on: Tue, 05 May 2015, 06:10:34 »
Anyone here see the 6 Hours @ Spa?



was a good race and it's awesome to see the power and speed of the LMP1 HY cars! And to give you an idea here is a GTPro car and an LMP1 HY car going up Eau Rouge;
https://twitter.com/TommyWTF1/status/594877567309602816

Offline katushkin

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #171 on: Tue, 05 May 2015, 10:06:47 »
Jesus, that is quick. They have different categories of cars in the same race don't they? Doesn't that get a bit dangerous?
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Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #172 on: Tue, 05 May 2015, 10:33:22 »
I had a massive post I just lost because chrome ****ing sucks....... but basically from what I understand there are 5 categories at the moment;
GT Am - Silver drivers in GT3/GTLE cars
GT Pro - Gold driver in GT3/GTLE cars
LMP2
LMP1
LMP1 HY - big boys (HY stands for hybrid)

And yeah, watching them race each other through traffic is epic and part of the appeal. Due to the drivers and the newer LMP1HY cars the 6hr races are closer to sprints than F1 races. But yeah, there can be big shunts;


both drivers walked away, how ever Ant did have to spend a few days in hospital due to back injuries.

Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #173 on: Tue, 05 May 2015, 10:36:44 »
The sister series in America has a similar style of set up, with Daytona Prototypes instead of Le Mans prototypes. But those are a lot more dangerous as the safety standards in the US are a lot lower.

Offline katushkin

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #174 on: Tue, 05 May 2015, 11:03:27 »
I had a massive post I just lost because chrome ****ing sucks....... but basically from what I understand there are 5 categories at the moment;
GT Am - Silver drivers in GT3/GTLE cars
GT Pro - Gold driver in GT3/GTLE cars
LMP2
LMP1
LMP1 HY - big boys (HY stands for hybrid)

And yeah, watching them race each other through traffic is epic and part of the appeal. Due to the drivers and the newer LMP1HY cars the 6hr races are closer to sprints than F1 races. But yeah, there can be big shunts;


both drivers walked away, how ever Ant did have to spend a few days in hospital due to back injuries.

Ouch, that one involving McNeish was brutal. Managed to get all those people behind the barrier with stuff as well. Yeesh. No mirrors on those Ferraris then? :P
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Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #175 on: Tue, 05 May 2015, 11:08:43 »
I had a massive post I just lost because chrome ****ing sucks....... but basically from what I understand there are 5 categories at the moment;
GT Am - Silver drivers in GT3/GTLE cars
GT Pro - Gold driver in GT3/GTLE cars
LMP2
LMP1
LMP1 HY - big boys (HY stands for hybrid)

And yeah, watching them race each other through traffic is epic and part of the appeal. Due to the drivers and the newer LMP1HY cars the 6hr races are closer to sprints than F1 races. But yeah, there can be big shunts;


both drivers walked away, how ever Ant did have to spend a few days in hospital due to back injuries.

Ouch, that one involving McNeish was brutal. Managed to get all those people behind the barrier with stuff as well. Yeesh. No mirrors on those Ferraris then? :P

Yeah idk why but the Ferrari's seem to have an issue at Le Mans for moving out of the way of the P1 cars... lol

Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #176 on: Wed, 06 May 2015, 06:23:50 »





McLaren Honda's new livery. Looks awesome
« Last Edit: Wed, 06 May 2015, 06:58:34 by baldgye »

Offline katushkin

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #177 on: Wed, 06 May 2015, 08:37:31 »
Oooooh, dat black is pretty sexy mayn.
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Offline Oobly

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #178 on: Wed, 06 May 2015, 14:40:07 »
Show Image

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McLaren Honda's new livery. Looks awesome

Veeery nice! Plus, there's this:

Pretty good packaging. I wonder if we'll start to see the McLaren performance start to inch closer to Mercedes in the next few races. I hope so.
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Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #179 on: Wed, 06 May 2015, 14:41:33 »
Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image


McLaren Honda's new livery. Looks awesome

Veeery nice! Plus, there's this:

Pretty good packaging. I wonder if we'll start to see the McLaren performance start to inch closer to Mercedes in the next few races. I hope so.

I think the best they will end the season is mid pack, with the Lotus... hearing from Mclaren that the aero isn't great isn't positive news when they are getting ontop of the engine lol

Offline katushkin

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #180 on: Wed, 06 May 2015, 14:48:32 »
Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image


McLaren Honda's new livery. Looks awesome

Veeery nice! Plus, there's this:

Pretty good packaging. I wonder if we'll start to see the McLaren performance start to inch closer to Mercedes in the next few races. I hope so.

I agree with baldgye. I think that's very optimistic, but I do think they will end up ahead of Torro Rosso and Sauber.
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Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #181 on: Wed, 06 May 2015, 14:49:19 »
Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image


McLaren Honda's new livery. Looks awesome

Veeery nice! Plus, there's this:

Pretty good packaging. I wonder if we'll start to see the McLaren performance start to inch closer to Mercedes in the next few races. I hope so.

I agree with baldgye. I think that's very optimistic, but I do think they will end up ahead of Torro Rosso and Sauber.

ahead of Torro Rosso, only when the Renault engine blows up :D

Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #182 on: Sat, 09 May 2015, 08:27:39 »
Fair play to Nico!

Tomorrows race should be epic!

Offline bazh

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #183 on: Sat, 09 May 2015, 08:29:36 »
I really hope Nico could win tomorrow :P
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Offline Dihedral

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #184 on: Sat, 09 May 2015, 08:32:58 »
Make your predictions!

I think Hamilton will pass nico on the first lap and sail off into the sunset but you never know.

Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #185 on: Sat, 09 May 2015, 09:58:46 »
Race predictions?
Ham
Ros
Vet
Rai

Alonso to get a point

Offline Lord of Narwhals

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #186 on: Sun, 10 May 2015, 08:38:40 »

That must have hurt.

This is the first time I'm watching F1 in like six years, I haven't seen a race since refueling was still a thing. It's good to see a Swedish driver competing, just a shame that he went from 9th place to 14th in a couple of laps.
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Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #187 on: Sun, 10 May 2015, 10:03:42 »
**** race.

Lewis kinda ****ed it up for everyone by bodging his start, then his team helped him out by giving him an awful stop.
DRS maked over-taking mostly a formality long as you had the right tires and engine.

Dull dull dull.

I feel bad that you chose this race to come back to f1 with, it's a terrible track. Monaco next up.... Yay.

Offline Oobly

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #188 on: Mon, 11 May 2015, 05:16:27 »
**** race.

Lewis kinda ****ed it up for everyone by bodging his start, then his team helped him out by giving him an awful stop.
DRS maked over-taking mostly a formality long as you had the right tires and engine.

Dull dull dull.

I feel bad that you chose this race to come back to f1 with, it's a terrible track. Monaco next up.... Yay.

Agreed, the top 4 finished in their starting positions, with no real excitement at any point.

Highlight of the race for me was the Bottas / Räikkönen battle for 4th in the last few laps of the race. You could see Räikkönen was driving on the edge of his tire's grip, fighting the wheel in almost every corner, whereas Bottas was just keeping cool, driving smoothly and not making any mistakes.

Poor Lotus jack man... saw he had an icepack on his groin after that incident. Ouch. I see Crash-jean is extending his ability, from team-mates, to other drivers and now to pedestrians. And of course Maldonado did his bit to keep his reputation alive, too.

When they had fuel stops it gave the teams much more scope for strategy, depending on how their cars handled when lighter / heavier, how they used their tires, how they're set up, etc. This is how Schumacher won a lot of his races, IMHO, simply strategy. Of course the car was also good, but strategy played more of a role than the differences in car performance. In fact you could compensate for the weaknesses of your car and play to the strengths with strategy, which minimised the effect of the differences between cars and in fact allowed for more variety in setup, etc, with teams putting more effort into one aspect over another where they saw they could improve their race with a new strategy. This fake tire stops thing (purposely crippled tires that can't last the whole race) is just not interesting, and certainly is not improving tire innovation.

In other words, Bernie Ecclestone and the FIA have crippled F1, making it irrelevant to the car industry, boring to all the target audience groups and stifling any useful innovation in the one area of motorsport that has the funds and brilliant engineers to do good research and development. Well done. I know, I know, I should simply enjoy watching the top drivers racing the top cars against each other, but there's really very little enjoyment left for me, sorry to say.
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Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #189 on: Mon, 11 May 2015, 05:40:53 »
Refueling was terribad, F1 in the early to mind 2000's was terrible. F1 is much MUCH better to watch these days than it was 10 years ago.

Spannish GP is bad, always has been always will be.

Offline Oobly

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #190 on: Mon, 11 May 2015, 07:28:51 »
Refueling was terribad, F1 in the early to mind 2000's was terrible. F1 is much MUCH better to watch these days than it was 10 years ago.

Spannish GP is bad, always has been always will be.

Really? Wouldn't you find it more interesting if some teams qualified with a light fuel load to get a better start position? We wouldn't see the same starting grid like we do practically every race nowadays. Like I said, there's not enough possibility for strategy in the current setup. You can't make up for a poor engine with better cornering, it's too deterministic. Best engine + decent aero = win. 2nd best engine + GREAT aero = lose. Car setup doesn't even enter the equation.

I would argue that Ferrari and Red Bull both have better aero packages than Mercedes, but it's their engines that are letting them down.

May I ask what the "terribad" part of refeuling was, in your opinion?
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Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #191 on: Mon, 11 May 2015, 07:39:49 »
Refueling was terribad, F1 in the early to mind 2000's was terrible. F1 is much MUCH better to watch these days than it was 10 years ago.

Spannish GP is bad, always has been always will be.

Really? Wouldn't you find it more interesting if some teams qualified with a light fuel load to get a better start position? We wouldn't see the same starting grid like we do practically every race nowadays. Like I said, there's not enough possibility for strategy in the current setup. You can't make up for a poor engine with better cornering, it's too deterministic. Best engine + decent aero = win. 2nd best engine + GREAT aero = lose. Car setup doesn't even enter the equation.

I would argue that Ferrari and Red Bull both have better aero packages than Mercedes, but it's their engines that are letting them down.

May I ask what the "terribad" part of refeuling was, in your opinion?

Refueling was bad because like you said, it was all strategy, no on track action. It made races a presession and dull to watch. Strategy is nice but it should be THE thing that wins races.
Quali was pretty dull and it didn't actually make it more interesting for the race, a bit like the idea with the tires and only the top 10 have to keep there quali tires on.
Removing refueling was the best thing the FIA/FOM have done in a long long time and the races that followed without it where much better than the ones that had refueling in. As someone who watched F1 all through the 2000's this is pretty clear.

Also if you look at the speed traps the Merc engine usually tops them, but Merc's work car is never top. They have the best aero package this season because the amount of aero and drag they are able to get while still being fast on the straights b/c of there engine.

Offline Oobly

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #192 on: Mon, 11 May 2015, 08:20:27 »
I beg to differ. There was lots of on-track action. With different stop strategies there was more overtaking, more leapfrogging, different car setups, etc. So you'd see a car better in corners fighting a car better on straights, you'd see a "slow" car overtaking a "fast" car due to lower fuel load.

It was more about the team than just having the fastest car, too. A good car combined with a good race engineer and a good driver and a good pit team, working consistently would win the season. Now you just need the best car (right now, just the best engine, because that compensates enough for other deficiencies) and the rest only needs to be adequate. It's boring to me.
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Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #194 on: Fri, 15 May 2015, 07:25:27 »
https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/599185537178603521

seems like the people in charge agree with you about refueling!

Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #195 on: Fri, 15 May 2015, 08:51:05 »

Offline katushkin

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #196 on: Mon, 18 May 2015, 02:56:13 »
So there is going to be an American team next year? Any ideas who's powertrain they will be running? I've heard they will be buying parts from Ferrari, but are they developing their own engine?

As for the refuelling, I'm pretty excited to see it again. I think combined with the new aero changes it will be quite cool, but it may only last a few years if it becomes too expensive.
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Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #197 on: Mon, 18 May 2015, 07:01:47 »
I was against it, after the news I wasn't sure if I was 'wrong' turns out, my original opinion was pretty valid; https://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/2015/05/15/another-fine-mess/


and yeah Hass F1 will use Ferrari bits for a year at least

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #198 on: Mon, 18 May 2015, 08:24:46 »

I saw this on the Formula 1 subreddit and it actually makes sense. I just hope that the refueling (if it makes a return) doesn't result in the track positions being too different from the actual positions.
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Offline baldgye

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Re: F1 2015
« Reply #199 on: Mon, 18 May 2015, 10:14:00 »
Problem is refuelling is the mega expensive way to bring back speed. The increase in costs for fuel rigs and then shipping all that extra weight around the world is massive.

I'm not a fan, I think the tires are mostly fine as they are, maybe being back the tire wars, maybe not. But increase the power and mechanical grip of the cars and force the aero off the front wing.