Author Topic: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)  (Read 298203 times)

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Offline catweewee

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1600 on: Mon, 04 December 2017, 23:11:06 »
So I've tried reflowing the solder points for LED #1 and still no luck. it only glows green so who do I contact about this?
Anyone have any luck who had faulty LEDs? This is super disappointing. I've soldered switches and inswitch LEDs but I'm not a professional.
Really wish I had the option of having one of the GB runners fix the PCB instead of sending it out to me partially functional.

Can you take a picture of it plugged it. Easier to tell that way

Offline demorior

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1601 on: Mon, 04 December 2017, 23:17:56 »
So I've tried reflowing the solder points for LED #1 and still no luck. it only glows green so who do I contact about this?
Anyone have any luck who had faulty LEDs? This is super disappointing. I've soldered switches and inswitch LEDs but I'm not a professional.
Really wish I had the option of having one of the GB runners fix the PCB instead of sending it out to me partially functional.

Can you take a picture of it plugged it. Easier to tell that way
this is what it looks like

Offline PancakeMSTR

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1602 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 00:38:21 »
**** Demorior....Looks like we're both similarly afflicted. I feel for you.

Look I'm gonna try fixing the PCB myself, if I have luck I'll get back to you with my results. Maybe even have you send the PCB to me and I'll do it for you pro bono, but I want to make sure I know what the fix is. Also pick yourself up some Sci Grip 4 (or something) polycarbonate/acrylic glue as a temporary measure to fill the cracks. Use a syringe to apply it, capillary action will take care of the rest. Will keep it in decent shape until a replacement arrives.
   

Offline foxlive

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1603 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 04:25:03 »
#crackgate  ;D

Online wtzll

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1604 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 06:11:54 »
#crackgate  ;D

Good thing I got that alu bottom :D
5975:JP

Offline Data

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1605 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 06:57:57 »
and holy ****, i just took a closer look at the poly bottom and mine is cracked too. have literally not touched this bolt at all...

Show Image


Show Image


As far as I can tell there are only 2 ways this can happen.
  • The parts are cleaned with a reactive solvent after machining.  This induces critical strain in the polymer that leads to stress fractures after a load is applied (by the screws).
  • The material is not polycarbonate.  It could be acrylic or some other brittle polymer.

PC is strong.  They use it in riot shields and motorcycle windscreens for ****'s sake.  It has great thermal properties and it's not going to crack by simply being installed in a thick metal case and shipped around the globe.  No way.  It was either mistreated at some point, or the manufacturer supplied an inferior material.

I haven't received mine yet so I have no way to tell.  From the literature I'm seeing there might be some simple ways to detect chemically-induced stress in polycarb.  Maybe we can find out on our own.

Offline foxlive

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1606 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 07:09:10 »

Offline catweewee

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1607 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 07:17:55 »
So I've tried reflowing the solder points for LED #1 and still no luck. it only glows green so who do I contact about this?
Anyone have any luck who had faulty LEDs? This is super disappointing. I've soldered switches and inswitch LEDs but I'm not a professional.
Really wish I had the option of having one of the GB runners fix the PCB instead of sending it out to me partially functional.

Can you take a picture of it plugged it. Easier to tell that way
this is what it looks like
Show Image



Alright, can you tell me what steps you took so I can try and figure what else I can do to help you.


Offline Traveler

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1608 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 08:20:57 »
Dang, another cracked polycarbonate bottom. Between this and the huge number of faulty PCBs I'm starting to get pretty worried about what shape my board is going to arrive in.

Offline pomk

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1609 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 09:02:08 »
and holy ****, i just took a closer look at the poly bottom and mine is cracked too. have literally not touched this bolt at all...

Show Image


Show Image


As far as I can tell there are only 2 ways this can happen.
  • The parts are cleaned with a reactive solvent after machining.  This induces critical strain in the polymer that leads to stress fractures after a load is applied (by the screws).
  • The material is not polycarbonate.  It could be acrylic or some other brittle polymer.

PC is strong.  They use it in riot shields and motorcycle windscreens for ****'s sake.  It has great thermal properties and it's not going to crack by simply being installed in a thick metal case and shipped around the globe.  No way.  It was either mistreated at some point, or the manufacturer supplied an inferior material.

I haven't received mine yet so I have no way to tell.  From the literature I'm seeing there might be some simple ways to detect chemically-induced stress in polycarb.  Maybe we can find out on our own.
While I agree that it _is_ strong, I highly doubt that it can be stretched, by pushing from the screw holes, even by a millimeter without cracking something. UPS guarantees a temperature range of -60 C to 70 C for air freight. In this temperature range the difference in sizing of steel and polycarbonate over 250 mm (approximate distance between the screw holes) is about two full millimeters.

Polycarbonate and steel are widely incompatible when it comes to thermal expansion, as polycarbonate has about six times higher expansion rate compared to steel.

As someone said before, this can be easily tested by stuffing one assembled bottom piece to a freezer and seeing what happens. If you think that it is too much, I would suggest checking the pricing of temperature controlled shipping.  :))

Online Helldrop

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1610 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 09:20:48 »
and holy ****, i just took a closer look at the poly bottom and mine is cracked too. have literally not touched this bolt at all...

Show Image


Show Image


Holy, thats too bad.

Even keyboards made of weaker acrylic hardly happen cracks. When it comes to solidity, I heard that polycarbonate is about 40 times stronger than acrylic. If these cracks continue to happen consistently, it must be a serious issue.

Offline Data

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1611 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 14:03:09 »
and holy ****, i just took a closer look at the poly bottom and mine is cracked too. have literally not touched this bolt at all...

Show Image


Show Image


As far as I can tell there are only 2 ways this can happen.
  • The parts are cleaned with a reactive solvent after machining.  This induces critical strain in the polymer that leads to stress fractures after a load is applied (by the screws).
  • The material is not polycarbonate.  It could be acrylic or some other brittle polymer.

PC is strong.  They use it in riot shields and motorcycle windscreens for ****'s sake.  It has great thermal properties and it's not going to crack by simply being installed in a thick metal case and shipped around the globe.  No way.  It was either mistreated at some point, or the manufacturer supplied an inferior material.

I haven't received mine yet so I have no way to tell.  From the literature I'm seeing there might be some simple ways to detect chemically-induced stress in polycarb.  Maybe we can find out on our own.
While I agree that it _is_ strong, I highly doubt that it can be stretched, by pushing from the screw holes, even by a millimeter without cracking something. UPS guarantees a temperature range of -60 C to 70 C for air freight. In this temperature range the difference in sizing of steel and polycarbonate over 250 mm (approximate distance between the screw holes) is about two full millimeters.

Polycarbonate and steel are widely incompatible when it comes to thermal expansion, as polycarbonate has about six times higher expansion rate compared to steel.

As someone said before, this can be easily tested by stuffing one assembled bottom piece to a freezer and seeing what happens. If you think that it is too much, I would suggest checking the pricing of temperature controlled shipping.  :))
The cases are aluminum.  I kind of doubt these keyboards are experiencing the full temperature range in transit, but it's interesting information anyway.  We should factor for air pressure differences while we're at it.   ;)

Offline danielucf

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1612 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 14:17:01 »
The cases are aluminum.  I kind of doubt these keyboards are experiencing the full temperature range in transit, but it's interesting information anyway.  We should factor for air pressure differences while we're at it.   ;)

Better add proximity to magnetic fields and radiation too, just in case.
VE.A 67g Zealios | GH60 MX Clears | KBT Pure MX Reds |

Offline Data

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1613 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 14:18:20 »
The cases are aluminum.  I kind of doubt these keyboards are experiencing the full temperature range in transit, but it's interesting information anyway.  We should factor for air pressure differences while we're at it.   ;)

Better add proximity to magnetic fields and radiation too, just in case.

OK, just to be safe, I'm writing an equation to account for gravity waves, dark matter, AND dark energy.

Offline danielucf

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1614 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 14:20:48 »
The cases are aluminum.  I kind of doubt these keyboards are experiencing the full temperature range in transit, but it's interesting information anyway.  We should factor for air pressure differences while we're at it.   ;)

Better add proximity to magnetic fields and radiation too, just in case.

OK, just to be safe, I'm writing an equation to account for gravity waves, dark matter, AND dark energy.

Plug everything into the PEBKAC equation too
VE.A 67g Zealios | GH60 MX Clears | KBT Pure MX Reds |

Offline pomk

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1615 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 16:51:13 »
and holy ****, i just took a closer look at the poly bottom and mine is cracked too. have literally not touched this bolt at all...

Show Image


Show Image


As far as I can tell there are only 2 ways this can happen.
  • The parts are cleaned with a reactive solvent after machining.  This induces critical strain in the polymer that leads to stress fractures after a load is applied (by the screws).
  • The material is not polycarbonate.  It could be acrylic or some other brittle polymer.

PC is strong.  They use it in riot shields and motorcycle windscreens for ****'s sake.  It has great thermal properties and it's not going to crack by simply being installed in a thick metal case and shipped around the globe.  No way.  It was either mistreated at some point, or the manufacturer supplied an inferior material.

I haven't received mine yet so I have no way to tell.  From the literature I'm seeing there might be some simple ways to detect chemically-induced stress in polycarb.  Maybe we can find out on our own.
While I agree that it _is_ strong, I highly doubt that it can be stretched, by pushing from the screw holes, even by a millimeter without cracking something. UPS guarantees a temperature range of -60 C to 70 C for air freight. In this temperature range the difference in sizing of steel and polycarbonate over 250 mm (approximate distance between the screw holes) is about two full millimeters.

Polycarbonate and steel are widely incompatible when it comes to thermal expansion, as polycarbonate has about six times higher expansion rate compared to steel.

As someone said before, this can be easily tested by stuffing one assembled bottom piece to a freezer and seeing what happens. If you think that it is too much, I would suggest checking the pricing of temperature controlled shipping.  :))
The cases are aluminum.  I kind of doubt these keyboards are experiencing the full temperature range in transit, but it's interesting information anyway.  We should factor for air pressure differences while we're at it.   ;)
The foot is steel.
The problem here is that the shipping company has to pay nothing if the problem is due to the temperature differences, as it is listed in the terms of service.

Offline Data

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1616 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 17:35:49 »
and holy ****, i just took a closer look at the poly bottom and mine is cracked too. have literally not touched this bolt at all...

Show Image


Show Image


As far as I can tell there are only 2 ways this can happen.
  • The parts are cleaned with a reactive solvent after machining.  This induces critical strain in the polymer that leads to stress fractures after a load is applied (by the screws).
  • The material is not polycarbonate.  It could be acrylic or some other brittle polymer.

PC is strong.  They use it in riot shields and motorcycle windscreens for ****'s sake.  It has great thermal properties and it's not going to crack by simply being installed in a thick metal case and shipped around the globe.  No way.  It was either mistreated at some point, or the manufacturer supplied an inferior material.

I haven't received mine yet so I have no way to tell.  From the literature I'm seeing there might be some simple ways to detect chemically-induced stress in polycarb.  Maybe we can find out on our own.
While I agree that it _is_ strong, I highly doubt that it can be stretched, by pushing from the screw holes, even by a millimeter without cracking something. UPS guarantees a temperature range of -60 C to 70 C for air freight. In this temperature range the difference in sizing of steel and polycarbonate over 250 mm (approximate distance between the screw holes) is about two full millimeters.

Polycarbonate and steel are widely incompatible when it comes to thermal expansion, as polycarbonate has about six times higher expansion rate compared to steel.

As someone said before, this can be easily tested by stuffing one assembled bottom piece to a freezer and seeing what happens. If you think that it is too much, I would suggest checking the pricing of temperature controlled shipping.  :))
The cases are aluminum.  I kind of doubt these keyboards are experiencing the full temperature range in transit, but it's interesting information anyway.  We should factor for air pressure differences while we're at it.   ;)
The foot is steel.
The problem here is that the shipping company has to pay nothing if the problem is due to the temperature differences, as it is listed in the terms of service.
I ran some very quick numbers with a more conservative temperature range (4.44 to 35.0C) and found a difference of only 0.4mm across the entire 250mm length; 0.1mm expansion for the PC and 0.5mm expansion for the steel.  I'm using linear temperature expansion coefficients of 0.000012 for steel and 0.0000675 for "standard" polycarbonate.  It's fall/winter across the Northern Hemisphere so I think this temperature range is probably more representative of the real world. 

Moreover, the photographic evidence suggests the stress occurs radially from the screw center and not from linear "stretching" along the length of the board/foot.  I'm not a materials scientist so you can take all this with a grain of salt, but I would expect a difference in thermal expansion to cause fractures in a linear pattern matching the "faces" of polycarb most closely aligned with the expanding metal -- fractures pointing out, away from the relative center.  We don't see that here.  If there's expansion relative to the foot then it's probably not an issue.

I'd like to suggest that, if there's thermal expansion at play here, perhaps it's between the screw and the screw hole.  Material expansion would naturally translate to the screw growing and the hole shrinking relative to each other.  If the PC bottoms were machined with very tight tolerance at the screw holes that could definitely be a problem, and could produce the pattern of cracking that we've seen so far.

Or it could even be some critical combination of over-tightening AND thermal expansion -- a "snug" screw head expanding down into the PC while the PC expands up into the fastener.   :confused:

But all this assumes the materials start life at the lowest temp and build up to the extreme highest temp at some unknown point in the journey.  We know that can't be the case -- they aren't manufactured and assembled in Antarctica.  So the baseline is really somewhere around 25-30C with only 10-20 differences in transit.  That should equate to negligible changes in thermal expansion AND contraction -- maybe half a millimeter both ways.  So I'm not really sure where we go from here.

Offline demorior

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1617 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 17:39:53 »
seems like long story short they should ship the parts disassembled as many manufacturers do

Offline Wilba

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1618 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 18:05:47 »
I ran some very quick numbers with a more conservative temperature range (4.44 to 35.0C) and found a difference of only 0.4mm across the entire 250mm length; 0.1mm expansion for the PC and 0.5mm expansion for the steel.  I'm using linear temperature expansion coefficients of 0.000012 for steel and 0.0000675 for "standard" polycarbonate.  It's fall/winter across the Northern Hemisphere so I think this temperature range is probably more representative of the real world. 

I think you got the numbers swapped, the PC expands more than the steel.

Moreover, the photographic evidence suggests the stress occurs radially from the screw center and not from linear "stretching" along the length of the board/foot.  I'm not a materials scientist so you can take all this with a grain of salt, but I would expect a difference in thermal expansion to cause fractures in a linear pattern matching the "faces" of polycarb most closely aligned with the expanding metal -- fractures pointing out, away from the relative center.  We don't see that here.  If there's expansion relative to the foot then it's probably not an issue.

Even more moreover, it's expanding/contracting relative to the center screw, so one would expect the center screw to not have any cracking, yet the pictures show the center screw having the worst cracking.

I'd like to suggest that, if there's thermal expansion at play here, perhaps it's between the screw and the screw hole.  Material expansion would naturally translate to the screw growing and the hole shrinking relative to each other.  If the PC bottoms were machined with very tight tolerance at the screw holes that could definitely be a problem, and could produce the pattern of cracking that we've seen so far.

Or it could even be some critical combination of over-tightening AND thermal expansion -- a "snug" screw head expanding down into the PC while the PC expands up into the fastener.   :confused:

However, the amount of expansion/contraction of the screw/screwhole is tiny. If we're talking about a 0.4mm difference over 250mm, the difference at 3mm (M3 screw/hole diameter) is proportionally smaller, so small that I think it falls well below the "bugger all" threshold.

Offline Data

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1619 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 18:57:36 »

I think you got the numbers swapped, the PC expands more than the steel.


Hah!  I totally did.  Thanks.

Offline PancakeMSTR

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1620 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 19:39:23 »
Remember that the keyboard would likely have been assembled warm, and then flown in a very cold airplane. Temperature difference between Malaysia and The northwest isn't what matters, it's the difference between Malaysia and air temperature at 30,000 feet. Unless the airplane cargo hold is heated and pressurized, which I imagine it isn't. Also was it flown or transported by ship? That makes a difference I think.

Then, two things happen: One, the polycarbonate hole shrinks against the threads and head. Meanwhile, the the polycarbonate pulls together against the two screws on the end. I'm not saying it's thermal expansion, but I still can believe it.

Anyway it's a moot point from the perspective of those of us who received defective products, we need parts replaced until we have in hand what we paid money for.
   

Offline Data

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1621 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 20:39:31 »
Remember that the keyboard would likely have been assembled warm, and then flown in a very cold airplane. Temperature difference between Malaysia and The northwest isn't what matters, it's the difference between Malaysia and air temperature at 30,000 feet. Unless the airplane cargo hold is heated and pressurized, which I imagine it isn't. Also was it flown or transported by ship? That makes a difference I think.

Then, two things happen: One, the polycarbonate hole shrinks against the threads and head. Meanwhile, the the polycarbonate pulls together against the two screws on the end. I'm not saying it's thermal expansion, but I still can believe it.

Anyway it's a moot point from the perspective of those of us who received defective products, we need parts replaced until we have in hand what we paid money for.

Two things.

1. Cold shrinks.  These boards are all being manufactured, tested, and assembled at some ambient ground-level temperature.  Maybe the factory and the anodizer's shop are a little warmer on average than juahenza's house, but they're in a pretty stable range.  The materials aren't being machined and drilled at some extreme hot or cold that would throw off their tolerances.  And anyway, if they experienced significant cold on the journey they would tend to shrink, not expand. 

2. Most of these boards aren't getting on a plane until they hit the destination country, and only when logistics dictate.  Yes, cargo aircraft are heated.  Most are kept above 40F and some are heated even more to accommodate "live" cargo.  Temperatures at 35,000 feet can reach -60F and that's bad for business.  Keeping cargo above freezing on a cross-country flight is not expensive.

Images from FedEx:


« Last Edit: Tue, 05 December 2017, 20:44:57 by Data »

Online wtzll

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1622 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 20:50:12 »
Man I should get some popcorn for this **** its getting crazy good. "Who cracked the polycarb? Stay tuned to find out!"
5975:JP

Offline PancakeMSTR

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1623 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 20:56:40 »
Data - my scenario involved the polycarbonate shrinking.

I never stated that the cracking was definitively a thermal effect. And given the information you just posted I'm not even sure if I consider that the likely culprit. Indeed, I really don't actually know what caused it. Can we even agree at this point that it's due to the polycarbonate being shipped with the foot attached? Maybe.

Again, though, it kinda doesn't matter. It didn't happen on the receiving end, i.e. as a function of customer error, so it happened, or whatever caused it  happened, while it was effectively in the care of the group buy leadership, and is thus their responsibility.

Speaking of whom, I'd like to hear from them at some point.
   

Offline amnesia0287

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1624 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 21:15:42 »
To whoever said the areas around the screws shouldn't be the coldest, you are wrong. Plastic is an insulator, metal is a thermal conductor. The plastic parts touching metal will always be the coldest/hottest points because the metal will pull the heat from the plastic. The center hole would be the most impacted as it is the furthest from any direct heat source. Basically the foot works like a heatsink. Now whether or not this is the problem remains to be seen, but it COULD be.

Other things to check:

If you install the left and right bolts, is the center hole correctly centered between the foot and the base?

Is there any sort of chemical on the screws? Lube, machine oil, etc?
Was the foot cleaned before being installed (for chemicals, as if for example there was still machine oil in one of the threads, that could cause issues)?
Are all the threads in the foot the same depth, could the center hole for example be slightly (less than 1mm) deeper and the screw head itself is cracking the plastic?
Are the holes milled to the same size?
Are the holes clean? Are there any burrs or anything else that could cause uneven force distribution?


Were the screw holes predrilled? (To avoid cracking polycarbonate, you normally drill out a smaller hole and then ream it out bigger so cut is clean):

http://www.ameriluxinternational.com/faq.php

Quote
Q. Can panels be nailed into place instead of screwing?
A. It is not recommended to nail sheets rather than screw.  Polycarbonate expands in hot weather and contracts in cold. Pre-drill and screw panels in place to allow for panel expansion and contraction with temperature changes.

Q. Is it necessary to pre-drill holes before installing polycarbonate sheets?
A. When it comes to the installation of polycarbonate sheets, pre-drilling is a must! Pre-drilling allows for the sheets to expand and contract due to changes in temperature. Failure to pre-drill can result in the sheet warping and/or cracking around the screw.

Offline yuktsi

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1625 on: Tue, 05 December 2017, 21:50:28 »
To whoever said the areas around the screws shouldn't be the coldest, you are wrong. Plastic is an insulator, metal is a thermal conductor. The plastic parts touching metal will always be the coldest/hottest points because the metal will pull the heat from the plastic. The center hole would be the most impacted as it is the furthest from any direct heat source. Basically the foot works like a heatsink. Now whether or not this is the problem remains to be seen, but it COULD be.

Other things to check:

If you install the left and right bolts, is the center hole correctly centered between the foot and the base?

Is there any sort of chemical on the screws? Lube, machine oil, etc?
Was the foot cleaned before being installed (for chemicals, as if for example there was still machine oil in one of the threads, that could cause issues)?
Are all the threads in the foot the same depth, could the center hole for example be slightly (less than 1mm) deeper and the screw head itself is cracking the plastic?
Are the holes milled to the same size?
Are the holes clean? Are there any burrs or anything else that could cause uneven force distribution?


Were the screw holes predrilled? (To avoid cracking polycarbonate, you normally drill out a smaller hole and then ream it out bigger so cut is clean):

http://www.ameriluxinternational.com/faq.php

Quote
Q. Can panels be nailed into place instead of screwing?
A. It is not recommended to nail sheets rather than screw.  Polycarbonate expands in hot weather and contracts in cold. Pre-drill and screw panels in place to allow for panel expansion and contraction with temperature changes.

Q. Is it necessary to pre-drill holes before installing polycarbonate sheets?
A. When it comes to the installation of polycarbonate sheets, pre-drilling is a must! Pre-drilling allows for the sheets to expand and contract due to changes in temperature. Failure to pre-drill can result in the sheet warping and/or cracking around the screw.
We will discuss with the manufacturer. By the way, Juahenza will put up a google sheet form at the 2nd post of this thread later for those have received cracked bottom.
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Offline eddible

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1626 on: Wed, 06 December 2017, 02:43:39 »
Do you have a rough ETA on the premium kits shipping out?

Offline Vigrith

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1627 on: Wed, 06 December 2017, 08:07:23 »
Do you have a rough ETA on the premium kits shipping out?

When I asked last page I was told they'd start shipping out not this week but the next.

Offline eddible

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1628 on: Wed, 06 December 2017, 08:30:56 »
Do you have a rough ETA on the premium kits shipping out?

When I asked last page I was told they'd start shipping out not this week but the next.

Ah thanks, must have missed that. Fingers crossed that's the case!

Offline Data

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1629 on: Wed, 06 December 2017, 09:01:19 »
We will discuss with the manufacturer. By the way, Juahenza will put up a google sheet form at the 2nd post of this thread later for those have received cracked bottom.

Thanks.  I don't know if any of this information is useful to you guys.  We're just entertaining ourselves trying to figure out the cause(s) of the cracking while we wait to hear from you.

Offline MaNiFeX

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Offline gutsack

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1631 on: Wed, 06 December 2017, 18:34:03 »
Saw some pictures of a black EXENT on Reddit today and it looked just as awful and smudgy as the dark gray did when I first brought that to attention (which, side note: If I had not asked why they looked so bad here in this thread, would this GB have just shipped awful dark grey cases to everyone? Seems like it.) Not holding out a lot of hope for good news on the dark gray case front.

Between the bad cases, the cracked poly carb, the silence... this has been an epic disaster.

When people first started complaining about all the big names attached to this and saying they should be held accountable... I was not really in agreement. But the deeper this disaster goes, the clearer it becomes to me that those well-known names were used to convince a lot of people to join an expensive buy which was being run by a crew not actually capable of delivering. I don't have past history with Juahenza but just from this GB alone it's starting to feel like this was a large promise that could not possibly have been fulfilled. If not that, then apparently literally everything went wrong and they can't fix it.

Either way, this has turned into quite a depressing situation.

Offline gnarlsagan

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1632 on: Wed, 06 December 2017, 19:03:55 »
Saw some pictures of a black EXENT on Reddit today and it looked just as awful and smudgy as the dark gray did when I first brought that to attention (which, side note: If I had not asked why they looked so bad here in this thread, would this GB have just shipped awful dark grey cases to everyone? Seems like it.) Not holding out a lot of hope for good news on the dark gray case front.

Between the bad cases, the cracked poly carb, the silence... this has been an epic disaster.

When people first started complaining about all the big names attached to this and saying they should be held accountable... I was not really in agreement. But the deeper this disaster goes, the clearer it becomes to me that those well-known names were used to convince a lot of people to join an expensive buy which was being run by a crew not actually capable of delivering. I don't have past history with Juahenza but just from this GB alone it's starting to feel like this was a large promise that could not possibly have been fulfilled. If not that, then apparently literally everything went wrong and they can't fix it.

Either way, this has turned into quite a depressing situation.

Just saw that one, and it did look smudged. I'd like to give the GB runners the benefit of the doubt, but that seems difficult to do while considering the facts of this buy.

While retaining full self-awareness and a strong desire to avoid being dramatic, I don't at this point find it overly dramatic to say that I no longer look forward to receiving the four boards I ordered, and am considering preemptively having the charges to my credit card reversed, unless the GB runners can come out and state unequivocally that any issues with remaining stock to be shipped will be fixed in their entirety before shipping.

If such a statement is not made with clarity and specifics in the next few days, it seems like self-infliction to simply wait for damaged boards to arrive, at which point I would be making it more difficult for myself to secure a credit card charge reversal. While this is definitely something I consider a last resort, and while I do wish the best for the GB runners, at some point self-preservation kicks in when it's becoming more and more clear that timeliness is being prioritized over quality, which is not acceptable in my humble view.

I don't want a broken product earlier; I'd like the advertised product when it is ready. Thanks for reading. 

Offline TerryMathews

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1633 on: Wed, 06 December 2017, 19:14:22 »
https://imgur.com/a/92obp

I'm going to PM Juahenza and Yuktsi but I thought I'd share pics of the issues with the EXENT I received today: 2 cracked weight holes and half the RGB LEDs not working - and I fully understand that could mean only 1 defective, but it could also mean all the unlit are defective. Won't know till I start reflowing/replacing.


Offline Traveler

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1634 on: Wed, 06 December 2017, 19:25:57 »
I no longer look forward to receiving the four boards I ordered,

Four boards; wow. I can't imagine having that much money tied up in this GB.

I'm really hoping the smudges in those Reddit pics are from finger grime. Because boy are they noticeable. That's the first time I've seen any imperfections on a black case.

Offline PancakeMSTR

  • Posts: 402
Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1635 on: Wed, 06 December 2017, 19:45:59 »
I no longer look forward to receiving the four boards I ordered,

Four boards; wow. I can't imagine having that much money tied up in this GB.

I'm really hoping the smudges in those Reddit pics are from finger grime. Because boy are they noticeable. That's the first time I've seen any imperfections on a black case.

They aren't. It was gone over earlier that the grey anodizing went bad and is, apparently, being redone.

More cracked cases. And still no information from Juahenza/Yuktsi. Things are basically in damage control mode at this point. And where is that google form from Juahenza? I don't see it yet.
   

Offline Gettys

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1636 on: Wed, 06 December 2017, 19:57:44 »
Saw some pictures of a black EXENT on Reddit today and it looked just as awful and smudgy as the dark gray did when I first brought that to attention (which, side note: If I had not asked why they looked so bad here in this thread, would this GB have just shipped awful dark grey cases to everyone? Seems like it.) Not holding out a lot of hope for good news on the dark gray case front.

Between the bad cases, the cracked poly carb, the silence... this has been an epic disaster.

When people first started complaining about all the big names attached to this and saying they should be held accountable... I was not really in agreement. But the deeper this disaster goes, the clearer it becomes to me that those well-known names were used to convince a lot of people to join an expensive buy which was being run by a crew not actually capable of delivering. I don't have past history with Juahenza but just from this GB alone it's starting to feel like this was a large promise that could not possibly have been fulfilled. If not that, then apparently literally everything went wrong and they can't fix it.

Either way, this has turned into quite a depressing situation.

Just saw that one, and it did look smudged. I'd like to give the GB runners the benefit of the doubt, but that seems difficult to do while considering the facts of this buy.

While retaining full self-awareness and a strong desire to avoid being dramatic, I don't at this point find it overly dramatic to say that I no longer look forward to receiving the four boards I ordered, and am considering preemptively having the charges to my credit card reversed, unless the GB runners can come out and state unequivocally that any issues with remaining stock to be shipped will be fixed in their entirety before shipping.

If such a statement is not made with clarity and specifics in the next few days, it seems like self-infliction to simply wait for damaged boards to arrive, at which point I would be making it more difficult for myself to secure a credit card charge reversal. While this is definitely something I consider a last resort, and while I do wish the best for the GB runners, at some point self-preservation kicks in when it's becoming more and more clear that timeliness is being prioritized over quality, which is not acceptable in my humble view.

I don't want a broken product earlier; I'd like the advertised product when it is ready. Thanks for reading.

That's how I've been feeling lately.  There is little joy left in this groupbuy for me.  No reports about the dark gray, cracked bottoms, and boards that fail to perform correctly.  And it seems like we get these very short, jaded versions of responses.  I've been in heavily delayed groupbuys, but none that delivered a damage product and just cut communication whenever they felt like it.

Offline yuktsi

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1637 on: Wed, 06 December 2017, 20:08:10 »
I have probably owned most of the Kustom ever made, I dare to say EXENT's anodizing is probably the best that I've seen. We have paid extra for the smooth satin kinda finishing. It is also more challenging for machining side as a very fine sandblasting doesn't cover machining lines very well. I understand that this may be the most expensive board some of you ever bought. But you are getting a lot more than what others paid for at the same price point. Stainless steel and polycarbonate is not something especially easy to deal with as compared material like aluminum. Then again, EXENT has the largest block of aluminum as compared to many. It's not easy to deal with such huge front surface area for handling and anodizing.

The issues with the poly-carbonate bottoms and PCB are rather unfortunate. Let's be fair, I am not saying that others did not, but we are taking all the responsibilities for the mishap. Not once that we blame the manufacturer or the shipping company, again, I am not implying that others did. Juahenza is the one who insisted on the very low markup in the beginning, and he is extremely apologetic that we need to be chipping in money now.

Btw, Juahenza has picked up most of the grey tops yesterday. I am not joining them today, but Cody or Juahenza will post some pic as they pack later.

I don't know what to say anymore.

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Offline TerryMathews

  • Posts: 498
Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1638 on: Wed, 06 December 2017, 20:28:45 »

...

I don't know what to say anymore.

While I appreciate your mea culpa, I'd much rather have:
1) An acknowledgment that defective parts will be replaced
2) Compensation for unshipped parts
3) A timetable on when issues will be fixed - that is realistic in length and can be achieved

While I can certainly acknowledge that replacing my PC bottom is less important than shipping the rest of the GB board, at the same time I am unwilling to wait another 9 months for replacement.

Offline PancakeMSTR

  • Posts: 402
Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1639 on: Wed, 06 December 2017, 22:50:09 »

...

I don't know what to say anymore.

While I appreciate your mea culpa, I'd much rather have:
1) An acknowledgment that defective parts will be replaced
2) Compensation for unshipped parts
3) A timetable on when issues will be fixed - that is realistic in length and can be achieved

While I can certainly acknowledge that replacing my PC bottom is less important than shipping the rest of the GB board, at the same time I am unwilling to wait another 9 months for replacement.

Just gonna quote this and post it because it identically reflects my feelings, except maybe that I consider replacing the broken/defective parts as important as shipping out the rest of the boards.
   

Offline codywanks

  • Posts: 197
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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1640 on: Thu, 07 December 2017, 00:10:52 »
Hey guys,

Short update from the packing facility. Here's a pic of the reworked Grey tops:



And here's another pic contrasting a Black top:



Here's some pics of the brass plates as well:

   

Will post pics of the 12deg feet and GMK set once I figure out which boxes they're in.

________


While I appreciate your mea culpa, I'd much rather have:
1) An acknowledgment that defective parts will be replaced
2) Compensation for unshipped parts
3) A timetable on when issues will be fixed - that is realistic in length and can be achieved

We are fiercely intent on ensuring that nobody receives defective parts (cracked poly/faulty PCBs) anymore. This means unpacking and disassembling whatever we put together in the month of November that did not get shipped yet. Whatever PCBs that need fixing will be fixed, and the feet will no longer be shipped attached to the bottoms. This is priority number one for now.

Due to the sheer load of this task (and its abortive nature), I'm not surprised that nobody gave a clear-cut response regarding defective parts yet, but the intention is to indeed have them replaced. It is still too early to give a timetable or estimate on when this will happen simply because we don't know how widespread the problem is, but an update will be given once things become clearer on our end.


...except maybe that I consider replacing the broken/defective parts as important as shipping out the rest of the boards.

To re-emphasize, the priority for now is to stop more defective kits from going out. We will talk replacements/new shipments later.


And it seems like we get these very short, jaded versions of responses.

Well...............

Offline amnesia0287

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1641 on: Thu, 07 December 2017, 00:15:32 »
Hey guys,

Short update from the packing facility. Here's a pic of the reworked Grey tops:

Show Image


And here's another pic contrasting a Black top:

Show Image


Here's some pics of the brass plates as well:

Show Image
   
Show Image


Will post pics of the 12deg feet and GMK set once I figure out which boxes they're in.

________


While I appreciate your mea culpa, I'd much rather have:
1) An acknowledgment that defective parts will be replaced
2) Compensation for unshipped parts
3) A timetable on when issues will be fixed - that is realistic in length and can be achieved

We are fiercely intent on ensuring that nobody receives defective parts (cracked poly/faulty PCBs) anymore. This means unpacking and disassembling whatever we put together in the month of November that did not get shipped yet. Whatever PCBs that need fixing will be fixed, and the feet will no longer be shipped attached to the bottoms. This is priority number one for now.

Due to the sheer load of this task (and its abortive nature), I'm not surprised that nobody gave a clear-cut response regarding defective parts yet, but the intention is to indeed have them replaced. It is still too early to give a timetable or estimate on when this will happen simply because we don't know how widespread the problem is, but an update will be given once things become clearer on our end.


...except maybe that I consider replacing the broken/defective parts as important as shipping out the rest of the boards.

To re-emphasize, the priority for now is to stop more defective kits from going out. We will talk replacements/new shipments later.


And it seems like we get these very short, jaded versions of responses.

Well...............

Thank you for the update. I for one think that was all anyone was really waiting to hear :D.

Offline gnarlsagan

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1642 on: Thu, 07 December 2017, 00:25:16 »
Awesome update. Thanks guys.

Offline PancakeMSTR

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1643 on: Thu, 07 December 2017, 00:30:30 »
Alright, well as long as you are (A) planning on replacing broken parts (e.g. cracked polycarbonate) and (B) doing it in a reasonable time frame  (I understand dealing with the issues is non-trivial) I'm happy. For those of us who received dysfunctional PCBs, what are your plans?
« Last Edit: Thu, 07 December 2017, 00:37:08 by PancakeMSTR »
   

Offline mike873

  • Posts: 38
Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1644 on: Thu, 07 December 2017, 03:07:24 »
Man, Im soooo jelly that I didnt order a brass plate.

Offline foxlive

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1645 on: Thu, 07 December 2017, 03:48:31 »
Thanks for the update!!

The gray top look awesome now! Issue can happen, and for me you are dealing with them as much as you can! I am also very happy to hear that you will fix the pcb before shipping. I am really hyped about this board and I cannot wait to feel it in my hands.

Also, just a little missing update: what about alu bottoms? Are they finished?

Thannnnks again!  :thumb:

Offline Data

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1646 on: Thu, 07 December 2017, 07:05:19 »
Gray tops are looking pretty good.  Thanks for sharing.

Offline Vigrith

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1647 on: Thu, 07 December 2017, 08:43:18 »
Great update. Thank you.

Offline Dylan

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1648 on: Thu, 07 December 2017, 11:34:07 »
Woo! Grey tops looks fantastic.  Glad they were given the second go around. Excited to eventually get my kit :)

Offline dubious

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Re: [GB]EXENT - 65% made by TARO (In production)
« Reply #1649 on: Thu, 07 December 2017, 16:27:14 »
It might just be the photo or the camera (or me) but some of those tops still look a little splotchy when you zoom in :/