Author Topic: [IC] XDA Oblique (Soon™)  (Read 43149 times)

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Online dr_derivative

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[IC] XDA Oblique (Soon™)
« on: Wed, 17 January 2018, 18:41:55 »
Latest update: new samples



XDA Oblique is a keyset inspired by the keycaps of the AEK, M0116, AEKII, and similar Apple keyboards. I initially designed this set in DSA profile, but some people suggested XDA would look better and in a poll XDA won 2:1 with nearly 70 votes.

The font used in this keyset is Oswald Light and is angled at 18°. This is a very close to Univers 57 Condensed Oblique, the font used on the AEK. I have modified/resized some of the symbols to match the AEK. The only characters that are significantly different are G, R, J, '&', @ and the lowercase g in page up/page down. Even Univers 57 isn't an exact match to the AEK's font though; it is slanted at a smaller angle and several of the symbols are different. The colour will be Pantone Cool Grey 2 U, which matches Apple's colour very well.

Renders


Super high-res 4k version


Super high-res 4k version


Super high-res 4k version


Super high-res 4k version (Imgur decided this one was just a little too big and converted it to a JPEG. Let me know if you want the original 4k PNG for whatever reason ;D )


Super high-res 4k version


Super high-res 4k version


Super high-res 4k version (Imgur decided this one was just a little too big and converted it to a JPEG. Let me know if you want the original 4k PNG for whatever reason ;D )


Super high-res 4k version (Imgur decided this one was just a little too big and converted it to a JPEG. Let me know if you want the original 4k PNG for whatever reason ;D )


Super high-res 4k version


Super high-res 4k version



Specs

This keyset will be made in XDA profile. XDA is a uniform profile similar to DSA but with a flatter, wider top surface.



The keys will be made of PBT with dye-sublimated legends. The grey keys will be a custom coloured PBT, while the accent keys will be dip-dyed.







Kit Layouts


















Unfortunately there are no 6u center-stem spacebars or convex 1u spacebar keys in XDA profile, so bad news for the HHKB and ortho users that requested them :(



Stats from the IC form
More
  • Total 272 responses (281 if you include multiple submissions)
  • 225 people left email addresses to be notified
Where people saw the IC:
  • 47% from /r/MechanicalKeyboards
  • 36% form Geekhack
  • 13% from /r/mechmarket
  • 3% from Deskthority
  • 0.7% misread the question and filled out their username in the 'other' field
  • 0.3% came from the MechKeys Discord
Text Mods vs. Icon Mods:
  • 22% want text mods
  • 29% prefer text mods, but like both
  • 21% prefer icon mods, but like both
  • 10% want icon mods
  • 18% want both
Normal Alphas vs. Katakana Alphas:
  • 50% want normal alphas
  • 25% want katakana alphas
  • 5% want both
  • 20% don't mind
Total number of kits people said they would buy:
  • 193 base alphas*
  • 122 katakana alphas*
  • 206 text mods*
  • 149 icon mods*
  • 183 accent kits†
  • 95 numpad kits
  • 212 compatibility kits
  • 131 spacebar kits
  • 67 homing kits
  • 149.5 forties/ortho kits‡ (Yes, someone actually said they wanted half a kit ??? )
  • 30 UK kits
  • 37 international kits
  • 201 novelty kits†
* Based on stats from before the base kit was split. Figures are based on the number of base kits people said they wanted combined with their preference for alphas/mods
† Number of people interested before these kits were actually created
‡ Total number before the 40%/ortho kit was split



Special thanks

Quaddepos has helped a huge amount with the development of this set. Pretty much everything since the end of January has been a group effort between us.
/u/mangoeatingkiwi helped a lot with the ortho kit. Since I'm not an ortho user this sped things up a lot ;D .
/u/twigcase from /r/VintageApple helped us match Apple's original grey colour. He also makes and sells some very cool paper iPhone cases on his website.
Thank you to everyone that gave feedback throughout the IC. Lots of the best ideas came from things that were suggested during the IC (XDA profile, the accent kit, Japanese sublegends, ...)



Contact me

If you want to contact me for whatever reason you can PM me on Geekhack (dr_derivative), Reddit (/u/dr_derivative), or Discord (dr_derivative#3618).



Support XDA Oblique

If you want to be notified when the groupbuy starts fill out this form. If you already left your email in the first IC form there is no need to fill out this one too.

Feel free to add the XDA Oblique banner to your signature if you want to:



Code: [Select]
[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=93586.0][img width=384 height=100]https://i.imgur.com/JfySR26.png[/img][/url]
« Last Edit: Mon, 04 June 2018, 12:10:02 by dr_derivative »

Offline xondat

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 17 January 2018, 18:46:26 »
Interested. Love the look of these sets.

Offline nickaster1

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 17 January 2018, 18:52:02 »
DSA Vintage?

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Offline hineybush

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 17 January 2018, 19:25:15 »
neat

Offline ShadeDream

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 17 January 2018, 19:34:43 »
The typeface used on the AEK was Univers 57 condensed oblique if you wanted to get an exact match. Not a big fan of DSA myself, but I've always preferred the older Apple legends over the standard PC ones.

Offline crtexcnndrm99

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 17 January 2018, 19:48:06 »
Always enjoyed the look of the AEK sets. Sounds good  :thumb:
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Online dr_derivative

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 17 January 2018, 19:51:40 »
The typeface used on the AEK was Univers 57 condensed oblique if you wanted to get an exact match. Not a big fan of DSA myself, but I've always preferred the older Apple legends over the standard PC ones.

I know, but that font costs money  :)) . Even if I paid the license for myself I'd probably run into trouble distributing keysets with the font.

I'm using Oswald Light in italic instead. It's really similar and it's under the SIL Open Font License, so AFAIK I can distribute it for free.

Online dr_derivative

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 17 January 2018, 19:54:15 »
Always enjoyed the look of the AEK sets. Sounds good  :thumb:
neat
Interested. Love the look of these sets.

Thank you  :thumb:

DSA Vintage?

Vintage makes me think of keyboards a lot older than the AEK  :)) . I'll add it to the suggestion list though.

Offline UsualSuspectXXX

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 17 January 2018, 20:16:22 »
Didn't think I'd like this from the title, but I kind of really want it!

Not a perfect match, but I think it'd look pretty good on the Modern M0110

Online Vigrith

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 17 January 2018, 20:23:04 »
Absolutely. Seems like you already know where to take this, just make sure coverage is good and you've got yourself a deal.

Offline ShadeDream

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 17 January 2018, 21:56:07 »
I know, but that font costs money  :)) . Even if I paid the license for myself I'd probably run into trouble distributing keysets with the font.

I'm using Oswald Light in italic instead. It's really similar and it's under the SIL Open Font License, so AFAIK I can distribute it for free.

Hmm good point... I would think the license would include the ability to sell your work utilizing the font but I'm not sure. Oswald looks pretty close though.

Offline xondat

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 17 January 2018, 22:04:47 »
The typeface used on the AEK was Univers 57 condensed oblique if you wanted to get an exact match. Not a big fan of DSA myself, but I've always preferred the older Apple legends over the standard PC ones.

I know, but that font costs money  :)) . Even if I paid the license for myself I'd probably run into trouble distributing keysets with the font.

I'm using Oswald Light in italic instead. It's really similar and it's under the SIL Open Font License, so AFAIK I can distribute it for free.

Please research everything fully (I'm sure you will). We don't want another MiTo situation where he steals graphics :))

Could you find out how much the licensing would cost? It will probably be quite a lot, but divided between the participants it might only be $2-5.

Offline azharkh

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 17 January 2018, 23:40:43 »
wow, surprisingly I'm really into this.

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Offline boxfrommoon

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 18 January 2018, 03:26:31 »
Finally! Please make this happen! In for at least 1 set — most likely more 👍

Offline dbone

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 18 January 2018, 04:37:21 »
Yes, please!

Offline R4WBIT

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 18 January 2018, 04:59:31 »
Wouldn't the XDA profile be better for a set like this? :)

Online dr_derivative

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 18 January 2018, 05:19:08 »
Please research everything fully (I'm sure you will). We don't want another MiTo situation where he steals graphics :))

Could you find out how much the licensing would cost? It will probably be quite a lot, but divided between the participants it might only be $2-5.

From Oswald's license: "The OFL allows the licensed fonts to be used, studied, modified and redistributed freely as long as they are not sold by themselves", so I'm pretty sure I'm not breaking any laws  :)) .

For Univers I'd have to email them to get an exact quote, since only licenses for electronic use are listed online. For an electronic publication it costs around $200, but since some characters (*,|,\,+,=,`) are not oblique I'd have to buy the oblique and non-oblique versions, and I don't think it's worth the extra cost. This project wasn't meant to be an exact replica of an AEK anyway, just to have a similar look.


 

Online dr_derivative

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 18 January 2018, 05:25:45 »
Wouldn't the XDA profile be better for a set like this? :)

XDA would look closer to the AEK because of the flatter and wider shape, but I think DSA would give the set its own unique look. I could change it though if enough people agree with you

Offline iFreilicht

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 18 January 2018, 06:16:55 »
Wouldn't the XDA profile be better for a set like this? :)

I certainly agree. The curvature of DSA caps doesn't suit the style you're going for here. You may also want to consider lead times, XDA can be manufactured quicker than DSA from what I've last heard. Certainly consider both options and weigh them.
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Online dr_derivative

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 18 January 2018, 07:00:45 »
Since a couple people have suggested XDA I've added a DSA vs XDA poll in the OP. If there's a draw I'll go with DSA since PMK are looking for designs and it seems like the easier option.

Also my friend suggested DSA Oblique as the name, so I've added that to the name suggestion list.

Offline koduh

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 18 January 2018, 08:00:36 »
I'd even say this would be great on Cherry profile as well as an ePBT set.

Online dr_derivative

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 18 January 2018, 09:22:50 »
I'd even say this would be great on Cherry profile as well as an ePBT set.

AFAIK ePBT doesn't do custom colours. Every set of theirs I've seen has the same two tone colour scheme.

Offline heavyheaded

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 18 January 2018, 09:53:44 »
The font on the caps is the only reason I've bothered building Alps boards from harvested AEKs. 100% will buy. Color should be more grey btw.

Online dr_derivative

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 18 January 2018, 10:16:43 »
The font on the caps is the only reason I've bothered building Alps boards from harvested AEKs. 100% will buy. Color should be more grey btw.

Thanks  :thumb: . Colour in the pics is WAT, because I didn't know wat to actually use. It's one of many thinks that needs to be changed before any potential GB.

Offline AuthenticDanger

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 18 January 2018, 10:46:55 »
I would buy this in an instant in DSA profile.

EDIT: This could also be done with alps stems since SP has DSA Alps molds...
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Offline elfick

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 18 January 2018, 13:00:00 »
DSA vs XDA is a hard call for me.
I prefer the shape of XDA but really dislike PBT (and I'm guessing I'm either the only one or one of a very few).
FWIW, PBT vs ABS for me isn't about the shine, it's all bout the feel.

If there were XDABS, the choice for me would be easy. :D

Online dr_derivative

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 18 January 2018, 13:39:09 »
I would buy this in an instant in DSA profile.

EDIT: This could also be done with alps stems since SP has DSA Alps molds...

I'm not sure how much demand there would be for Alps mount, considering the original is Alps and is fairly common.

DSA vs XDA is a hard call for me.
I prefer the shape of XDA but really dislike PBT (and I'm guessing I'm either the only one or one of a very few).
FWIW, PBT vs ABS for me isn't about the shine, it's all bout the feel.

If there were XDABS, the choice for me would be easy. :D

I prefer ABS too, but for this set creating new doubleshot moulds for the font would cost a fortune. So it will be PBT for both profiles, just choose whichever shape you prefer  ;D .

Online dr_derivative

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 18 January 2018, 13:44:57 »
I think DSA Oblique (or XDA Oblique) sounds pretty good, so unless there's lots of opposition I'm using that as the name.

I added a new 40% kit. I think it covers most layouts but let me know if you want anything changed.


Also, any interest in an orange spacebar kit to match the original?  :))
« Last Edit: Fri, 02 February 2018, 15:40:54 by dr_derivative »

Offline okaboni

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Re: [IC] DSA Oblique or XDA Oblique AEK-style keyset.
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 19 January 2018, 11:18:18 »
OMG this is exactly what I want! I'll be in for sure.   :))

I think XDA, which is more AEK-ish, is better.
The orange spacebar is interesting, but a (maybe textured) PBT keycap that looks like discolored ABS is somewhat odd...

Online dr_derivative

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Re: [IC] DSA Oblique or XDA Oblique AEK-style keyset.
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 19 January 2018, 11:26:18 »
OMG this is exactly what I want! I'll be in for sure.   :))

I think XDA, which is more AEK-ish, is better.
The orange spacebar is interesting, but a (maybe textured) PBT keycap that looks like discolored ABS is somewhat odd...

Thanks  :thumb: It look like we're going with XDA based on the poll so far, I'll leave it up for another day or two to give everyone a chance to vote.

And the orange spacebar kit was mainly a joke  :))

Offline hineybush

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Re: [IC] DSA Oblique or XDA Oblique AEK-style keyset.
« Reply #30 on: Fri, 19 January 2018, 11:44:38 »
DSA 2:1 ;)

SP's DSA dyesub is pretty quick too, not sure if there's many (or any) sets being run atm.

Offline nickaster1

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Re: [IC] DSA Oblique or XDA Oblique AEK-style keyset.
« Reply #31 on: Fri, 19 January 2018, 11:48:49 »
Ye for XDA here


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Online dr_derivative

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Re: [IC] DSA Oblique or XDA Oblique AEK-style keyset.
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 19 January 2018, 12:19:20 »
DSA 2:1 ;)

It's XDA 2:1, I think you're reading it upside down  ;)

SP's DSA dyesub is pretty quick too, not sure if there's many (or any) sets being run atm.

That's why I was planning to go with DSA, SP are even looking for sets to run through PMK. But at the moment it seems like more people want XDA

Offline dysphorical

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Re: [IC] DSA Oblique or XDA Oblique AEK-style keyset.
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 19 January 2018, 13:28:11 »
I would prefer XDA, but I will definitely be interested either way, and I understand why you want to go DSA. Count me in no matter what profile though  :thumb:

Online UberDrk

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Re: [IC] DSA Oblique or XDA Oblique AEK-style keyset.
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 19 January 2018, 13:38:39 »
Cool concept! An alphas kit with Japanese sublegends might be a nice addition as well

Offline dr-slump

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Re: [IC] DSA Oblique or XDA Oblique AEK-style keyset.
« Reply #35 on: Fri, 19 January 2018, 13:57:20 »
I'm in for either profile!   :thumb:
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Online dr_derivative

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Re: [IC] DSA Oblique or XDA Oblique AEK-style keyset.
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 19 January 2018, 17:24:46 »
Cool concept! An alphas kit with Japanese sublegends might be a nice addition as well


I was actually considering Japanese legends as well as icon mods like on European AEKs.



 There's a risk that if I add too many options we won't meet MOQ on any. I'll be sure to add it to the IC form though when I make one in a couple days ;)

Offline WarmCat

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Re: [IC] DSA Oblique or XDA Oblique AEK-style keyset.
« Reply #37 on: Fri, 19 January 2018, 19:11:02 »
Oh man this would be awesome if you get enough interest to run a gb. I would personally prefer XDA. Watching!

Offline nguyenhimself

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Re: [IC] DSA Oblique or XDA Oblique AEK-style keyset.
« Reply #38 on: Fri, 19 January 2018, 20:59:45 »
Oh yes please, this set would be amazing for all the Mac users here.
Though, as someone who just sold his DSA set for an EnjoyPBT one, I would prefer XDA.
Also, though I get why you name this set "Oblique", may I suggest using some Apple-related name instead? How about:

- DSA/XDA Command (as this is one of the few sets with the actual lettered Command key).
- DSA/XDA Vintage.
- DSA/XDA Appel (Apple in Dutch)
- DSA/XDA Changing the World  :D

                                   
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Online dr_derivative

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Re: [IC] DSA Oblique or XDA Oblique AEK-style keyset.
« Reply #39 on: Sat, 20 January 2018, 08:08:17 »
Oh yes please, this set would be amazing for all the Mac users here.
Though, as someone who just sold his DSA set for an EnjoyPBT one, I would prefer XDA.
Also, though I get why you name this set "Oblique", may I suggest using some Apple-related name instead? How about:

- DSA/XDA Command (as this is one of the few sets with the actual lettered Command key).
- DSA/XDA Vintage.
- DSA/XDA Appel (Apple in Dutch)
- DSA/XDA Changing the World  :D

I was trying to think of more Apple related name.
  • I was considering Command but I'm worried it will be confused with 23/88 Commando.
  • Vintage makes me think of beam springs and spherical keycaps way older than the AEK  :)). But it's a possibility.
  • Appel might sound too similar to Apple, and I'd rather not be on the receiving end of a lawsuit. I could do a different language like French 'Pomme'. The Irish 'Úll' could also work since I don't live too far from the Irish Alps factory where AEKs used to be made. But it's not a name many people would easily understand.
  • I actually really like 'Changing the World' :D.
In any case I want to hear other peoples' opinions and suggestions before I change the name (again).
« Last Edit: Sat, 20 January 2018, 09:48:16 by dr_derivative »

Offline ucyo

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Re: [IC] DSA Oblique or XDA Oblique AEK-style keyset.
« Reply #40 on: Sun, 21 January 2018, 07:19:48 »
I guess I found the first group buy I'm gonna participate. When can we actually expect the GB to start? it is  :thumb:

Offline Oblotzky

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Re: [IC] DSA Oblique or XDA Oblique AEK-style keyset.
« Reply #41 on: Sun, 21 January 2018, 08:04:03 »
Maybe an accent kit with the colors of the old Apple logo?

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Offline sleepybrett

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Re: [IC] DSA Oblique or XDA Oblique AEK-style keyset.
« Reply #42 on: Sun, 21 January 2018, 13:04:39 »
Maybe a couple of alternate capslock sized keys for control and function (the //gs shipped with control in that position, when the aek came out there was a bit of grumbling because they moved caps from a 1u in the bottom left corner to replace the capslock)

Online dr_derivative

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Re: [IC] XDA Oblique AEK-style keyset.
« Reply #43 on: Sun, 21 January 2018, 14:21:38 »
I guess I found the first group buy I'm gonna participate. When can we actually expect the GB to start? it is  :thumb:

No idea, we're still in the early stages of the IC and there's still a lot to do  :)) . And this is my first IC so I've no idea how long these things take.

Maybe an accent kit with the colors of the old Apple logo?

Definitely a possibility. I'll start a proper Google form to gauge interest soon, I'll make sure to add that.

Maybe a couple of alternate capslock sized keys for control and function (the //gs shipped with control in that position, when the aek came out there was a bit of grumbling because they moved caps from a 1u in the bottom left corner to replace the capslock)

There is already a 1.75u control in the base kit  ;)



The XDA/DSA poll has been pretty consistently showing a 2:1 lead for XDA and has nearly 70 votes, so I'm officially declaring XDA the winner. This complicates things a little since I was intending to run this through PMK and I don't have the time to run this GB myself.

I've updated the OP with some better drawings of the keyset, with several symbols moved/resized/modified to look more like the AEK than the previous KLE screenshots. I fixed one mistake I made in the UK kit, which was pretty stupid of me since it was originally created using a UK layout keyboard  :)). I also added 1.5u Option and 1u Command keys to the speciality kit for WKL users who prefer not having them swapped like on the AEK.

For now I'm keeping the name XDA Oblique, but I will put a name suggestion box in the IC form when I make one.

Offline Chromatrope

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Re: [IC] XDA Oblique AEK-style keyset.
« Reply #44 on: Sun, 21 January 2018, 14:23:21 »
Some form of rainbow novelty feels like a must
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Offline saucybulgogi

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Re: [IC] XDA Oblique AEK-style keyset.
« Reply #45 on: Sun, 21 January 2018, 16:09:41 »
Definitely interested in this set. Hope to see it come to a reality soon!


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Offline duxbridge

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Re: [IC] XDA Oblique AEK-style keyset.
« Reply #46 on: Sun, 21 January 2018, 16:56:24 »
Looks good! Looking forward to when to progresses to the GB stage!

Would you consider making this available in a lighter colour?

Offline Devkey

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Re: [IC] DSA AEK-style keyset
« Reply #47 on: Sun, 21 January 2018, 17:14:31 »
Didn't think I'd like this from the title, but I kind of really want it!

Not a perfect match, but I think it'd look pretty good on the Modern M0110

Agreed. Would be a great pairing

Online dr_derivative

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 191
  • Location: Cork, Ireland
  • Not a real doctor
Re: [IC] XDA Oblique AEK-style keyset.
« Reply #48 on: Sun, 21 January 2018, 17:17:32 »
Looks good! Looking forward to when to progresses to the GB stage!

Would you consider making this available in a lighter colour?

I'll try to match it as best I can to the original, which is a light grey (I believe Apple called the colour 'Platinum').



I've added an IC form, so if everyone who is interested could fill that out that'd be awesome  :thumb: .

I'll also post this IC on DT and reddit tomorrow, I'm too lazy to do it now
« Last Edit: Sun, 21 January 2018, 17:21:51 by dr_derivative »

Offline waqar

  • Posts: 48
  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: [IC] XDA Oblique AEK-style keyset (IC form added)
« Reply #49 on: Sun, 21 January 2018, 23:01:17 »
yes please