Author Topic: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80  (Read 23604 times)

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Offline meiosis

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #200 on: Thu, 13 December 2018, 17:30:51 »
I haven't either and I paid as soon as I got it

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk



I still haven't received my shipping notification. Should I be concerned?

Please PM me your order numbers.
I got mine this morning but thanks :) luckily DHL is so fast haha and I trust zfrontier so it was no worry

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

Current GBs:
Jane v2 - https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97552.0

Keyboards:
Razer Huntsman Elite

Online rope

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #201 on: Fri, 14 December 2018, 06:12:58 »
i've just got my shipping notification this morning as well!! nice, i'm very excited! :D

Online gutsack

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #202 on: Fri, 14 December 2018, 16:27:44 »
Mine arrived today, looks terrific. Will build it this weekend.

Offline MxBlue

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #203 on: Sun, 16 December 2018, 03:02:17 »
My kit arrived this morning, here's some pics I took of it. Blue / MAO White for reference.





More pics over here, including the brass weight: https://imgur.com/a/2C7wAqN
Worth noting that I also got an extra MAO white plate, universal layout (unlike the custom one I asked senter for).

Offline rmendis

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #204 on: Mon, 17 December 2018, 00:11:12 »
I paid for shipping a little late, because I missed the email initially. Any way of knowing when my order is shipping?

Online pixelpusher

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #205 on: Mon, 17 December 2018, 01:46:11 »
My kit arrived this morning, here's some pics I took of it. Blue / MAO White for reference.

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image


More pics over here, including the brass weight: https://imgur.com/a/2C7wAqN
Worth noting that I also got an extra MAO white plate, universal layout (unlike the custom one I asked senter for).

Grats on a beautiful board, man.  It's a looker.  What keycaps are you planning to put on it?
:)

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #206 on: Mon, 17 December 2018, 10:11:08 »
Big regrets for not getting in, these are najs.

Online RamenTechMech

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #207 on: Mon, 24 December 2018, 00:37:12 »
My kit arrived this morning, here's some pics I took of it. Blue / MAO White for reference.

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image


More pics over here, including the brass weight: https://imgur.com/a/2C7wAqN
Worth noting that I also got an extra MAO white plate, universal layout (unlike the custom one I asked senter for).
These pictures made me go in awe once I scrolled upon them. Absolutely gorgeous!! Take good care of her :D

Offline meiosis

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #208 on: Mon, 24 December 2018, 02:36:11 »
The blue and the leaf logo really work well together

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

Current GBs:
Jane v2 - https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97552.0

Keyboards:
Razer Huntsman Elite

Offline MxBlue

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #209 on: Wed, 26 December 2018, 16:09:00 »
Grats on a beautiful board, man.  It's a looker.  What keycaps are you planning to put on it?

Waiting on Modern Dolch to come in for it. Fixed plate really is the way to go.



Built it with a Skog PCB cause the one I got had issues out of the box, replacement coming in soon. Did not notice that the Skog PCB had flipped spacebar stabs, so my space is... a bit whack  :))
Will rebuild later haha.
« Last Edit: Wed, 26 December 2018, 16:13:04 by MxBlue »

Offline spyruf

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #210 on: Wed, 26 December 2018, 17:44:52 »
Grats on a beautiful board, man.  It's a looker.  What keycaps are you planning to put on it?

Waiting on Modern Dolch to come in for it. Fixed plate really is the way to go.

Show Image


Built it with a Skog PCB cause the one I got had issues out of the box, replacement coming in soon. Did not notice that the Skog PCB had flipped spacebar stabs, so my space is... a bit whack  :))
Will rebuild later haha.

Looks nice! Which way is the space bar wire supposed to go. I think I might have built mine wrong (used mill Max sockets tho so should be okay).

Offline MxBlue

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #211 on: Wed, 26 December 2018, 17:46:57 »
Looks nice! Which way is the space bar wire supposed to go. I think I might have built mine wrong (used mill Max sockets tho so should be okay).

This plate supports the wire going up for the spacebar. For reference, look at the other stab cutouts, the wire should have more room.

Offline Peppermint216

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #212 on: Thu, 27 December 2018, 04:48:15 »
Grats on a beautiful board, man.  It's a looker.  What keycaps are you planning to put on it?

Waiting on Modern Dolch to come in for it. Fixed plate really is the way to go.

Show Image


Built it with a Skog PCB cause the one I got had issues out of the box, replacement coming in soon. Did not notice that the Skog PCB had flipped spacebar stabs, so my space is... a bit whack  :))
Will rebuild later haha.

Pretty jealous of that fixed plate, had no idea fox labs offered customs, did it cost extra? Also the PCBs, because of alps support I had trouble with caps and left ctrl always enabled, turned out the solder had bled onto the alps pad.

Offline MxBlue

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #213 on: Thu, 27 December 2018, 04:52:26 »

Pretty jealous of that fixed plate, had no idea fox labs offered customs, did it cost extra? Also the PCBs, because of alps support I had trouble with caps and left ctrl always enabled, turned out the solder had bled onto the alps pad.

It was a request to senter, it did not cost me extra for this one.

I've heard about that issue, but in my case, the leaf pcb won't enumerate as USB, so it's a deeper fault than that. Gave it as thorough a diagnosis as my skills would allow, could not determine what exactly had failed.

Offline lolitslunchbox

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #214 on: Fri, 28 December 2018, 16:37:31 »
I can't seem to figure out why I can't get this key working on my PCB. Every other key registers fine, I ordered two PCB's and on both I can't get the key to register. I believe it should be a right Alt key? Maybe that key isn't supposed to work and my layout is wrong? I'm not sure.

The key in question is the one in-between the tweezers. The pad to the left registers as right alt. and the one to the right is windows key.


Offline MxBlue

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #215 on: Fri, 28 December 2018, 16:40:15 »
I can't seem to figure out why I can't get this key working on my PCB. Every other key registers fine, I ordered two PCB's and on both I can't get the key to register. I believe it should be a right Alt key? Maybe that key isn't supposed to work and my layout is wrong? I'm not sure.

The key in question is the one in-between the tweezers. The pad to the left registers as right alt. and the one to the right is windows key.

Show Image


Open up BootmapperClient, hit Download then Toggle Bootmapper. That key is default mapped as FN, so it doesnt send a keycode to the PC on its own. With Toggle Bootmapper on, try shorting it and you should hopefully see that it is indeed working.

Offline lolitslunchbox

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #216 on: Fri, 28 December 2018, 17:14:14 »
I can't seem to figure out why I can't get this key working on my PCB. Every other key registers fine, I ordered two PCB's and on both I can't get the key to register. I believe it should be a right Alt key? Maybe that key isn't supposed to work and my layout is wrong? I'm not sure.

The key in question is the one in-between the tweezers. The pad to the left registers as right alt. and the one to the right is windows key.

Show Image


Open up BootmapperClient, hit Download then Toggle Bootmapper. That key is default mapped as FN, so it doesnt send a keycode to the PC on its own. With Toggle Bootmapper on, try shorting it and you should hopefully see that it is indeed working.

Thank you so much! It works.

Offline lolitslunchbox

  • Posts: 5
Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #217 on: Fri, 28 December 2018, 21:13:19 »
Well I finished building my leaf80. Built with Zealios 78g and ocean dolch keys.
I love the leaf, super sturdy and beautiful case.






Offline spyruf

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #218 on: Sat, 29 December 2018, 00:01:53 »
Built my e-coat white with holy chickies x eBPT 9009.
Also used mill max sockets to make the board hotswappable.

The lighting makes the board look more cream but it is a true white in person.
I am very pleased with the quality and finish on the board.






Imgur Album: https://imgur.com/a/TqlBori
« Last Edit: Sat, 29 December 2018, 00:05:24 by spyruf »

Online gutsack

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #219 on: Sun, 30 December 2018, 17:16:59 »
Finally had a chance to build mine:

209716-0
209718-1209720-2

Went with Healios and SA Oblivion with Git Modifiers. Lightly lubed the Healios with TechKeys thin lube, Zeal screw-in stabs heavily lubed. Ended up putting foam in the case under the PCB to dampen a tiny metal twang, now itís silent as hell. Custom cable from Mechcables. Carbon SA caps on WASD, since this board will mostly be used for PC gaming. Built live on stream: https://karbonbased.io/builds/leaf-80

Really love this board.
« Last Edit: Sun, 30 December 2018, 17:23:01 by gutsack »

Online juaninamilli

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #220 on: Fri, 11 January 2019, 08:51:51 »
How does the cooler white board look with the warmer 9009 white, irl?
Built my e-coat white with holy chickies x eBPT 9009.
Also used mill max sockets to make the board hotswappable.

The lighting makes the board look more cream but it is a true white in person.
I am very pleased with the quality and finish on the board.

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image


Imgur Album: https://imgur.com/a/TqlBori

Offline spyruf

  • Posts: 32
  • Location: USA
Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #221 on: Sat, 12 January 2019, 03:42:47 »
How does the cooler white board look with the warmer 9009 white, irl?
Built my e-coat white with holy chickies x eBPT 9009.
Also used mill max sockets to make the board hotswappable.

The lighting makes the board look more cream but it is a true white in person.
I am very pleased with the quality and finish on the board.

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image


Imgur Album: https://imgur.com/a/TqlBori

It looks great, you canít really go wrong. Right now I switched to DSa Milkshake though.


https://imgur.com/a/1mrUfdk

Offline Audiobs

  • Posts: 39
Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #222 on: Sat, 12 January 2019, 20:09:40 »
Hey guys, has any of you received a defective PCB? Mine came with a dead 'right' arrow key and it looks like the diode was damaged or defective from manufacturing. When I contacted Senter, he said he would send me a diode to replace on my own. But those diodes are not 'through-hole' type and I don't believe they should be soldered/desoldered by hand. Any insight would be appreciated!

https://imgur.com/a/jJutj3n

Frankly, I am very disappointed with the entire experience. I didn't join the original GB, I bought the remaining stock from Senter when he posted them. The case arrived with a dent dead in the middle of the front side, a blemish on on the blue weight, and his response was that I was nick-picking and these are considered normal. He refunded $30 for the dent on the case, but said the blue weight looks fine to him. He said I should be able to fix the diode myself and told me not to bother him again. I guess this is the new normal for customer relationship. I want to say this is kinda a GB thing, but then I didn't join the GB. This was a direct purchase. Then again, why do we even call this a group buy?

In any case, not starting a spitting contest here, and I will not bother to respond to Senter either as he clearly has never had any intention to make things right from the start. I have been an audiophile trading gears online for the 20 years and I have seen all kinds of behaviors from sellers and buyers. I also learned not to get upset over stupidity. Just didn't expect it from a so-called 'manufacturer'.

Hopefully Senter would make things right for everyone from now on, if there is one thing to achieve with this writing.

Caveat Emptor as the forum said. :)

Offline MxBlue

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #223 on: Sat, 12 January 2019, 21:40:17 »
Hey guys, has any of you received a defective PCB? Mine came with a dead 'right' arrow key and it looks like the diode was damaged or defective from manufacturing. When I contacted Senter, he said he would send me a diode to replace on my own. But those diodes are not 'through-hole' type and I don't believe they should be soldered/desoldered by hand. Any insight would be appreciated!

https://imgur.com/a/jJutj3n

Frankly, I am very disappointed with the entire experience. I didn't join the original GB, I bought the remaining stock from Senter when he posted them. The case arrived with a dent dead in the middle of the front side, a blemish on on the blue weight, and his response was that I was nick-picking and these are considered normal. He refunded $30 for the dent on the case, but said the blue weight looks fine to him. He said I should be able to fix the diode myself and told me not to bother him again. I guess this is the new normal for customer relationship. I want to say this is kinda a GB thing, but then I didn't join the GB. This was a direct purchase. Then again, why do we even call this a group buy?

In any case, not starting a spitting contest here, and I will not bother to respond to Senter either as he clearly has never had any intention to make things right from the start. I have been an audiophile trading gears online for the 20 years and I have seen all kinds of behaviors from sellers and buyers. I also learned not to get upset over stupidity. Just didn't expect it from a so-called 'manufacturer'.

Hopefully Senter would make things right for everyone from now on, if there is one thing to achieve with this writing.

Caveat Emptor as the forum said. :)

It's a shame your PCB came with a defect, real unfortunate, but it would be a waste for both of you if you had to sent the PCB back and forth for repair. They can very easily be soldered and desoldered by hand though, so don't worry. The only extra tool you will need are a pair of tweezers, any old pair will do.

To desolder the diode, heat one pad while holding the diode with the tweezers and lift it up gently on that side, there shouldn't be much resistance. Next, heat up the other pad and do the same, this time lifting the whole diode hopefully. If it doesn't lift off the second time, keep repeating, alternating between sides until you get the whole diode off.

To solder the diode, make sure there's some solder on both of the pads first, adding a bit on otherwise. Then, using your tweezers, hold the diode in place on the PCB, ensuring the direction (position of the  line) is correct. While applying a light amount of downward force on the diode with your tweezers, heat up one pad and visually check that it is soldered down. Repeat to the other side and bam, you're done.

I have to agree with senter about your weight though, that pic makes it seem like an absolutely tiny nick in a weight. The cause is most likely due to a small bump or something, this anodizing is quite fragile and tends to get scratched quite easily, a trade-off for the gorgeous colours you can get out of it. The case is more visible, so I can understand your sentiment, good to see you got some compensation there.

Offline Audiobs

  • Posts: 39
Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #224 on: Sat, 12 January 2019, 23:41:06 »
Hey guys, has any of you received a defective PCB? Mine came with a dead 'right' arrow key and it looks like the diode was damaged or defective from manufacturing. When I contacted Senter, he said he would send me a diode to replace on my own. But those diodes are not 'through-hole' type and I don't believe they should be soldered/desoldered by hand. Any insight would be appreciated!

https://imgur.com/a/jJutj3n

Frankly, I am very disappointed with the entire experience. I didn't join the original GB, I bought the remaining stock from Senter when he posted them. The case arrived with a dent dead in the middle of the front side, a blemish on on the blue weight, and his response was that I was nick-picking and these are considered normal. He refunded $30 for the dent on the case, but said the blue weight looks fine to him. He said I should be able to fix the diode myself and told me not to bother him again. I guess this is the new normal for customer relationship. I want to say this is kinda a GB thing, but then I didn't join the GB. This was a direct purchase. Then again, why do we even call this a group buy?

In any case, not starting a spitting contest here, and I will not bother to respond to Senter either as he clearly has never had any intention to make things right from the start. I have been an audiophile trading gears online for the 20 years and I have seen all kinds of behaviors from sellers and buyers. I also learned not to get upset over stupidity. Just didn't expect it from a so-called 'manufacturer'.

Hopefully Senter would make things right for everyone from now on, if there is one thing to achieve with this writing.

Caveat Emptor as the forum said. :)

It's a shame your PCB came with a defect, real unfortunate, but it would be a waste for both of you if you had to sent the PCB back and forth for repair. They can very easily be soldered and desoldered by hand though, so don't worry. The only extra tool you will need are a pair of tweezers, any old pair will do.

To desolder the diode, heat one pad while holding the diode with the tweezers and lift it up gently on that side, there shouldn't be much resistance. Next, heat up the other pad and do the same, this time lifting the whole diode hopefully. If it doesn't lift off the second time, keep repeating, alternating between sides until you get the whole diode off.

To solder the diode, make sure there's some solder on both of the pads first, adding a bit on otherwise. Then, using your tweezers, hold the diode in place on the PCB, ensuring the direction (position of the  line) is correct. While applying a light amount of downward force on the diode with your tweezers, heat up one pad and visually check that it is soldered down. Repeat to the other side and bam, you're done.

I have to agree with senter about your weight though, that pic makes it seem like an absolutely tiny nick in a weight. The cause is most likely due to a small bump or something, this anodizing is quite fragile and tends to get scratched quite easily, a trade-off for the gorgeous colours you can get out of it. The case is more visible, so I can understand your sentiment, good to see you got some compensation there.

Thanks for your help MxBlue! I appreciate it. I too am sorry that this doesn't work out. It's a nice board but I don't need the aggravation and insults. I think people need to hold these so-called GB runners to a bit higher standard. It's not a good thing when your only choice is to accept a blemished item with a small compensation. Most reputable seller would have labelled this B-Stock. period. It's not up for debate.

This is not GB, this is selling direct with 100% payment upfront and delivery in 3-6 months, and the buyers bears all the risk. The only other thing that resembles a GB here is the 'doing you a favor' attitude.

Thanks again for your help! Glad you're happy with yours.

Offline senter

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #225 on: Mon, 14 January 2019, 19:00:06 »
Hey guys, has any of you received a defective PCB? Mine came with a dead 'right' arrow key and it looks like the diode was damaged or defective from manufacturing. When I contacted Senter, he said he would send me a diode to replace on my own. But those diodes are not 'through-hole' type and I don't believe they should be soldered/desoldered by hand. Any insight would be appreciated!

https://imgur.com/a/jJutj3n

Frankly, I am very disappointed with the entire experience. I didn't join the original GB, I bought the remaining stock from Senter when he posted them. The case arrived with a dent dead in the middle of the front side, a blemish on on the blue weight, and his response was that I was nick-picking and these are considered normal. He refunded $30 for the dent on the case, but said the blue weight looks fine to him. He said I should be able to fix the diode myself and told me not to bother him again. I guess this is the new normal for customer relationship. I want to say this is kinda a GB thing, but then I didn't join the GB. This was a direct purchase. Then again, why do we even call this a group buy?

In any case, not starting a spitting contest here, and I will not bother to respond to Senter either as he clearly has never had any intention to make things right from the start. I have been an audiophile trading gears online for the 20 years and I have seen all kinds of behaviors from sellers and buyers. I also learned not to get upset over stupidity. Just didn't expect it from a so-called 'manufacturer'.

Hopefully Senter would make things right for everyone from now on, if there is one thing to achieve with this writing.

Caveat Emptor as the forum said. :)

I'm sorry things ended up like this.

Firstly, how comes "he clearly has never had any intention to make things right from the start" ? There were three problems the first time you told me. 1) We have both agreed that was your typo and you blamed me wrongly. 2) I said I couldn't see it as a blemish on your weight. You didn't send me more clear photos to clarify. 3) There is one ding on your case that I can see. I refunded you $30 and you agreed with that.

The reason I mentioned "nick-picking" is that you were too wordy. I  can see the photos. It was not necessary that you explain how bad the ding is again and again. So I told you, I can't refund someone more just because he's nick-picking more, and I have my standard for compensation if an accident happens. You have sent me 24 messages from when you contacted me for purchasing until now. Actually, you are the one who sent me the most PMs in the past several years. While you are not satisfied with this purchase, I'm not pleased with you as well.

After the three problems solved, you contacted me again and said there is one more issue about the PCB. It's apparent that there one diode missing one your PCB. I'm pretty sure it should be there before shipping. I've told you I sent some new diodes to you for replacing. As MxBlue said, it's a waste to send the PCB back and forth. I also told you it takes 5 seconds to solder it if you know how to solder switches. The diode is missing so you don't even need to desolder the old one. Why you filed a chargeback on PayPal and complain here? Is it because I didn't send you a new PCB directly for one missing diode?

Offline senter

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #226 on: Mon, 14 January 2019, 19:11:50 »
Proof first 3 problems were solved:


The pic of the PCB (I have sent some new diodes for replacing in the last week):


Offline OracleKev

  • Posts: 228
Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #227 on: Mon, 14 January 2019, 20:13:03 »
Hey guys, has any of you received a defective PCB? Mine came with a dead 'right' arrow key and it looks like the diode was damaged or defective from manufacturing. When I contacted Senter, he said he would send me a diode to replace on my own. But those diodes are not 'through-hole' type and I don't believe they should be soldered/desoldered by hand. Any insight would be appreciated!

https://imgur.com/a/jJutj3n

Frankly, I am very disappointed with the entire experience. I didn't join the original GB, I bought the remaining stock from Senter when he posted them. The case arrived with a dent dead in the middle of the front side, a blemish on on the blue weight, and his response was that I was nick-picking and these are considered normal. He refunded $30 for the dent on the case, but said the blue weight looks fine to him. He said I should be able to fix the diode myself and told me not to bother him again. I guess this is the new normal for customer relationship. I want to say this is kinda a GB thing, but then I didn't join the GB. This was a direct purchase. Then again, why do we even call this a group buy?

In any case, not starting a spitting contest here, and I will not bother to respond to Senter either as he clearly has never had any intention to make things right from the start. I have been an audiophile trading gears online for the 20 years and I have seen all kinds of behaviors from sellers and buyers. I also learned not to get upset over stupidity. Just didn't expect it from a so-called 'manufacturer'.

Hopefully Senter would make things right for everyone from now on, if there is one thing to achieve with this writing.

Caveat Emptor as the forum said. :)

It's a shame your PCB came with a defect, real unfortunate, but it would be a waste for both of you if you had to sent the PCB back and forth for repair. They can very easily be soldered and desoldered by hand though, so don't worry. The only extra tool you will need are a pair of tweezers, any old pair will do.

To desolder the diode, heat one pad while holding the diode with the tweezers and lift it up gently on that side, there shouldn't be much resistance. Next, heat up the other pad and do the same, this time lifting the whole diode hopefully. If it doesn't lift off the second time, keep repeating, alternating between sides until you get the whole diode off.

To solder the diode, make sure there's some solder on both of the pads first, adding a bit on otherwise. Then, using your tweezers, hold the diode in place on the PCB, ensuring the direction (position of the  line) is correct. While applying a light amount of downward force on the diode with your tweezers, heat up one pad and visually check that it is soldered down. Repeat to the other side and bam, you're done.

I have to agree with senter about your weight though, that pic makes it seem like an absolutely tiny nick in a weight. The cause is most likely due to a small bump or something, this anodizing is quite fragile and tends to get scratched quite easily, a trade-off for the gorgeous colours you can get out of it. The case is more visible, so I can understand your sentiment, good to see you got some compensation there.

Thanks for your help MxBlue! I appreciate it. I too am sorry that this doesn't work out. It's a nice board but I don't need the aggravation and insults. I think people need to hold these so-called GB runners to a bit higher standard. It's not a good thing when your only choice is to accept a blemished item with a small compensation. Most reputable seller would have labelled this B-Stock. period. It's not up for debate.

This is not GB, this is selling direct with 100% payment upfront and delivery in 3-6 months, and the buyers bears all the risk. The only other thing that resembles a GB here is the 'doing you a favor' attitude.

Thanks again for your help! Glad you're happy with yours.

Hey, don't want to impose over your expectations, but IMHO they are too high.
Common quality standards is a small number of minor scratches and ano marks are not required to be serviced.
If quality expectation is comparable to what might be called 'flawless' finish, then yield could plummet and both GB runner and participants will run much higher cost and risks.

Offline Audiobs

  • Posts: 39
Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #228 on: Mon, 14 January 2019, 21:22:12 »
Senter, I am surprised to see you come out to defend not 1, but 3 issues in a single kit, as though this is solely my 'high' expectation. The mere idea that even 1 issue is passable is ludicrous. Whether the buyer accepts the defects is up to the buyer, but not to be a standard of delivering a finished product. You pride yourself with high quality but make an exception when it is not? I did pass on and accepted the defects albeit you only took responsibility for one, one that is dead in the middle in the front. I did it because there was no other option without returning the kit. I did it for simplicity sake.

The kit arrived during the holidays and I only tested the PCB after, and the picture clearly shows that the diode is damaged, not missing. In either case, why is it my fault that it is missing or damaged? Even now, you take absolutely no responsibility on why these defects were there in the first place. I didn't join the group buy, I bought this kit because you solicited to sell them. Why haven't you or your partner checked before selling them?

You have never been apologetic, not the slightest bit. You blame me for high standard, and somehow I didn't notice the damaged diode? As far as I can see, that was a bad diode soldered on the PCB from the start! And this is somehow my fault?

All my responses to you show that I have every intention to work this out and take the kits as it. But 3 issues in one order, and most importantly, your arrogant responses did it for me. Like you said, stop bothering me. The kit is going back to you and I want nothing to do with it.

For those who think this is acceptable and think that we should give GB runners a break, I think it's time to rethink what GB really is today. This is not what GB used to be, this is just selling direct masking as GB. It's keyboards after keyboards, GB after GB non-stop because this GB sale model is unbeatable. Where else can you ask people to put up with the production cost and profit upfront with no risk to themselves? I guess we need to be thankful that we actually receive the goods, sometimes?

I don't want this to be a spitting contest thus I never mentioned any detail and my Paypal action. I only thought that other members should be aware of the situation. Perhaps Senter would do better next time either with QC, or with treating the next customer who runs into issues.

Please know this - I wouldn't have bought this if I didn't like Senter's work. This is not a rejection of the design, it's a beautiful board. It's unfortunate that I won't have this or any future products under the circumstance.

I digress and won't add further.

Offline senter

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #229 on: Mon, 14 January 2019, 21:59:50 »
Senter, I am surprised to see you come out to defend not 1, but 3 issues in a single kit, as though this is solely my 'high' expectation. The mere idea that even 1 issue is passable is ludicrous. Whether the buyer accepts the defects is up to the buyer, but not to be a standard of delivering a finished product. You pride yourself with high quality but make an exception when it is not? I did pass on and accepted the defects albeit you only took responsibility for one, one that is dead in the middle in the front. I did it because there was no other option without returning the kit. I did it for simplicity sake.

The kit arrived during the holidays and I only tested the PCB after, and the picture clearly shows that the diode is damaged, not missing. In either case, why is it my fault that it is missing or damaged? Even now, you take absolutely no responsibility on why these defects were there in the first place. I didn't join the group buy, I bought this kit because you solicited to sell them. Why haven't you or your partner checked before selling them?

You have never been apologetic, not the slightest bit. You blame me for high standard, and somehow I didn't notice the damaged diode? As far as I can see, that was a bad diode soldered on the PCB from the start! And this is somehow my fault?

All my responses to you show that I have every intention to work this out and take the kits as it. But 3 issues in one order, and most importantly, your arrogant responses did it for me. Like you said, stop bothering me. The kit is going back to you and I want nothing to do with it.

For those who think this is acceptable and think that we should give GB runners a break, I think it's time to rethink what GB really is today. This is not what GB used to be, this is just selling direct masking as GB. It's keyboards after keyboards, GB after GB non-stop because this GB sale model is unbeatable. Where else can you ask people to put up with the production cost and profit upfront with no risk to themselves? I guess we need to be thankful that we actually receive the goods, sometimes?

I don't want this to be a spitting contest thus I never mentioned any detail and my Paypal action. I only thought that other members should be aware of the situation. Perhaps Senter would do better next time either with QC, or with treating the next customer who runs into issues.

Please know this - I wouldn't have bought this if I didn't like Senter's work. This is not a rejection of the design, it's a beautiful board. It's unfortunate that I won't have this or any future products under the circumstance.

I digress and won't add further.

Let me tell you several numbers. There were more than 150 kits sold. There were only 3 or 4 cases need after sale service including yours. All the others have been solved without any problems.

For the 3 issues you mentioned. One is not even visible in your photo. I doubted it and you didn't reply. One is a 1/32 inch long blemish that probably damaged in the shipping or just a oversight. The last one is a missing diode that you said it's there when you got it. So it's also damaged in the shipping.

I cannot guarantee flawless kits for everyone especially I didn't do the QC by myself. It's the same for all the future GBs. Accidents happen in almost EVERY GB. When there are issues, I try to solve it. I solved your first two problems and you agreed with it. Now what are you blaming me for?

Please don't lie. I never blamed you for anything. When you told me about diode. I said "let me send you some new diodes for replacing". I forget if I said sorry or not. Do I also need to beg you?

Regarding to the GB sale model. Everyone knows I was running GBs through zFrontier. You bought the leftover through PayPal invoice tho. Even it's through PayPal invoice, your money is protected by PayPal. And it's never true that I fulfill GB for 3-6 months. You know nothing about me. Now paypal has taken the money from my account because you filed a full price chargeback, even I've already sent you $30 for compensation and diodes. I got all your problems solved and you filed the full price chargeback and defame me here. Shame on you.

Offline nasp

  • Posts: 100
  • Location: USA
Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #230 on: Mon, 14 January 2019, 22:18:51 »
So the dude got a free board plus $30 over a little blemish and a damaged diode? And on top of that he comes on this forum to complain how Senter did him wrong? Entitlement much?

Offline packman86

  • Posts: 241
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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #231 on: Mon, 14 January 2019, 22:20:33 »
So the dude got a free board plus $30 over a little blemish and a damaged diode? And on top of that he comes on this forum to complain how Senter did him wrong? Entitlement much?

Ya I'd probably blacklist this dude from future GBs.
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Offline bciamny

  • Posts: 148
Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #232 on: Mon, 14 January 2019, 22:58:28 »
Senter, I am surprised to see you come out to defend not 1, but 3 issues in a single kit, as though this is solely my 'high' expectation. The mere idea that even 1 issue is passable is ludicrous. Whether the buyer accepts the defects is up to the buyer, but not to be a standard of delivering a finished product. You pride yourself with high quality but make an exception when it is not? I did pass on and accepted the defects albeit you only took responsibility for one, one that is dead in the middle in the front. I did it because there was no other option without returning the kit. I did it for simplicity sake.

The kit arrived during the holidays and I only tested the PCB after, and the picture clearly shows that the diode is damaged, not missing. In either case, why is it my fault that it is missing or damaged? Even now, you take absolutely no responsibility on why these defects were there in the first place. I didn't join the group buy, I bought this kit because you solicited to sell them. Why haven't you or your partner checked before selling them?

You have never been apologetic, not the slightest bit. You blame me for high standard, and somehow I didn't notice the damaged diode? As far as I can see, that was a bad diode soldered on the PCB from the start! And this is somehow my fault?

All my responses to you show that I have every intention to work this out and take the kits as it. But 3 issues in one order, and most importantly, your arrogant responses did it for me. Like you said, stop bothering me. The kit is going back to you and I want nothing to do with it.

For those who think this is acceptable and think that we should give GB runners a break, I think it's time to rethink what GB really is today. This is not what GB used to be, this is just selling direct masking as GB. It's keyboards after keyboards, GB after GB non-stop because this GB sale model is unbeatable. Where else can you ask people to put up with the production cost and profit upfront with no risk to themselves? I guess we need to be thankful that we actually receive the goods, sometimes?

I don't want this to be a spitting contest thus I never mentioned any detail and my Paypal action. I only thought that other members should be aware of the situation. Perhaps Senter would do better next time either with QC, or with treating the next customer who runs into issues.

Please know this - I wouldn't have bought this if I didn't like Senter's work. This is not a rejection of the design, it's a beautiful board. It's unfortunate that I won't have this or any future products under the circumstance.

I digress and won't add further.

i don't like commenting on issues between two individuals but the way you've come forward to present your thoughts on senter is unsettling. i'm going to avoid a point by point analysis of the logical errors and conclusory jumps you've made but i want to say a few things.

re: whether or not this is a gb, i think it pretty obviously is. a person is soliciting the public to determine the quantity and feasibility of producing an item. there isn't any guarantee that something by foxlabs is going to be made and this has been shown through a few group buys already performed/in the interest check phase by that group. i'm not sure what a group buy was to you in some undefined past but i don't see how this can reasonably be argued to not be a group buy. it seems like you're suggesting that a group buy done for some profit is not an actual group buy. i disagree with that idea, especially when it comes to manufacturing items that do not have 100% yield, require a sizable effort by the runner, and have serious cost implications because of the fact that the manufacturing yield is not 100%.

it seems to me you have this really high expectation of what the end product should be. admittedly, we are spending a good chunk of money on each of the keyboards that are bought through gbs on here and we should expect things to come close to what we envision when we decide to spend our money. however, that doesn't mean we can expect to treat each seller as if they are some large organization that can shift the costs of an unreasonably unhappy customer onto other customers and to other products over time in order to appease any small number of such customers. this line isn't to excuse total failures of gbs, just those that have minor hiccups like this gb with you.

i think once the pcb issue was identified and it was obvious that it would make little financial sense to swap pcbs, you and senter should've first considered a full refund of the entire kit for the sake of 'simplicity.' from what was presented, you seem to suggest that senter has been hostile to you re: and senter seems to think he has been neutral and adequately addressed your issues. i don't think it's unreasonable for senter to feel this way.

with the issues you've identified you seem to think that qc has failed here. re: the pcb, i think it's fair to see that issue overlooked by accident. it isn't the easiest thing to spot with an eye check. the only way to really ensure a 100% working pcb is to check each one before shipping, which would raise the price per board by some non-trivial amount just for that effort. whether or not that outlay by all the customers makes sense is something we can discuss at a different time but it isn't something i expected from this gb (or many others gbs) at the price we bought in for. for the case blemish, it seems to be pretty small and could've been overlooked as well. and since you bought this separate from the rest of the gb participants, that blemish could've been made at some later point after the initial qc was done for the boards by senter. it doesn't excuse the issue but a remedy was offered. i'm not going to say anything about the weight, lol.

in some ways, i've been repetitive to what senter has said but i just wanted to cast my lot with senter away from someone who has spent a lot of energy to publicly complain about him, without any good reason. from my experience in this gb and generally observing senter in this community, he has been a clear, effective, timely, and honest runner. i hope that this incident doesn't dissuade others from future foxlabs projects because i think that the group has put forward some cool and unique projects for the rest of us to enjoy.


Online dantambok

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #233 on: Tue, 15 January 2019, 00:55:23 »
What a prick

Offline Audiobs

  • Posts: 39
Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #234 on: Tue, 15 January 2019, 02:08:23 »
Wow, you guys are so quick to come to his defense and believe every word he said. The Paypal dispute is open and I am waiting for Papyal's instruction to return the item. Free board and $30? You wish it is that easy.

Senter, I have never accused you of anything other than facts, which you admitted. I have never accused you for intentionally pushing these last few leftover boards as A-Stock. You suggested you could send me a diode replacement, and I never heard from you for days. Then when I asked again, you said you already sent me a dinode, and 'What more do you want? Leave me alone!" First, I never agree to accepting responsibility to repair the PCB myself, because if it doesn't work, you will surely blame me for it. And even if so, do you have a tracking no. for those dinodes you've sent last week?

I was generalizing what GB is today, not addressing your particular delivery time, which I had no idea what it was. I never asked you to apologize and especially not beg for forgiveness! I was describing the situation and your behavior. What is this extreme talk with you?

So excuse my ignorance folks, I didn't know 2 blemishes and a defective PCB in a single keyboard is normal around here. Ban me or not, I volunteer not to be a sucker anymore.


« Last Edit: Tue, 15 January 2019, 02:19:56 by Audiobs »

Online Puddsy

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #235 on: Tue, 15 January 2019, 02:09:36 »
So the dude got a free board plus $30 over a little blemish and a damaged diode? And on top of that he comes on this forum to complain how Senter did him wrong? Entitlement much?

Ya I'd probably blacklist this dude from future GBs.

caveat emptor
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Offline meiosis

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #236 on: Tue, 15 January 2019, 15:49:43 »
Wow, you guys are so quick to come to his defense and believe every word he said. The Paypal dispute is open and I am waiting for Papyal's instruction to return the item. Free board and $30? You wish it is that easy.

Senter, I have never accused you of anything other than facts, which you admitted. I have never accused you for intentionally pushing these last few leftover boards as A-Stock. You suggested you could send me a diode replacement, and I never heard from you for days. Then when I asked again, you said you already sent me a dinode, and 'What more do you want? Leave me alone!" First, I never agree to accepting responsibility to repair the PCB myself, because if it doesn't work, you will surely blame me for it. And even if so, do you have a tracking no. for those dinodes you've sent last week?

I was generalizing what GB is today, not addressing your particular delivery time, which I had no idea what it was. I never asked you to apologize and especially not beg for forgiveness! I was describing the situation and your behavior. What is this extreme talk with you?

So excuse my ignorance folks, I didn't know 2 blemishes and a defective PCB in a single keyboard is normal around here. Ban me or not, I volunteer not to be a sucker anymore.
So are you going to return his $30? You still made a chargeback for the full amount

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Offline mdlt97

  • Posts: 69
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Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #237 on: Tue, 15 January 2019, 18:12:12 »
"I also learned not to get upset over stupidity."


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Offline fireworm

  • Posts: 181
Re: [GB] Fox Lab Leaf 80
« Reply #238 on: Tue, 15 January 2019, 18:57:32 »
I mean if people want to see what happens when things go REALLY bad: Look at the LUNAR GB B-stock here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ReQceA4zFuJMSFoHh3-3MYddA2rBdLCc

IMO the $30 refund is reasonable; it's not like the screws are misaligned and the anno is banded and case literally warped beyond repair...