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Offline bpiphany

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« Reply #150 on: Mon, 07 November 2011, 08:10:08 »
There needs to be some more resistors in my design. All transistor base connections will need one to control the base-emitter current. The transistor connecting the row-transistors to ground should probably be of darlington type.

I'm not completely sure how diodes work, but I think they will not lead any current at all if their forward voltage is not reached. This would do as a built in safety feature to make it impossible to drive more than one LED per column at time even if every row would be connected to ground. One row is at most 14 LEDs, 14 × 25mA is "only" 325mA. The diodes might be able to take short bursts of current higher than their specified continuous current rating. This should be clear from the LED datasheet in that case. I think this is probably an unnecessary risk though. That would require more interesting programming involving timer overflow interrupts to ensure no LEDs are burst fed for too long =) The output couldn't be increased by too much though because of the 500mA roof. I also don't know how much current that can be passed through the Teensy board itself. The ATmega is specified to be able to supply the 40mA/pin. The ground connections on the Teensy board would be subjected to ~400mA though. I don't know how thick those traces are. It would of course be possible to wire the USB ground directly onto the keyboard PCB as well.

My idea is to interleave the scans of the two matrices. First the LED matrix is scanned. This requires the B-port to be set as outputs. Then the key matrix is scanned, B-port as inputs with pull-up resistors.
During the LED scan the column pins control which LEDs get lit, and during the key scan they control which column to scan. Depending on the key scan frequency needed N LED scans could be done per key scan.



Important edit: OK, so there is an absolute maximum current of 200mA for the whole ATmega chip.. This can of course be solved by connecting each LED-matrix-column through a transistor drawing the current directly from the USB connection. =/ Or by ensuring that only half of the columns are driven at the same time.
« Last Edit: Mon, 07 November 2011, 08:27:06 by PrinsValium »

Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #151 on: Mon, 07 November 2011, 08:48:41 »
To answer the auto-router question... In my experience with KB PCBs, first-pass routing to all points should not take long at all.  The cleanup stage can take a few hours tho.  If your first pass is taking a long time then it's not going to happen.  Changing design rules (trace width, gap) to get it routed is my first step.  You can't go too small tho.  When I added SMT parts to a previously routed board it didn't work because the trace size was too big for the part.
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Offline bpiphany

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« Reply #152 on: Mon, 07 November 2011, 08:59:11 »
Yes, the freerouter can't handle if pins are too close together not allowing them to be connected without violating minimum distances. If that is the case it simply goes on trying forever. Sometimes it also gets stuck on something that is actually possible to solve. Then you can stop the autorouting and do that connection by hand, and restart the autorouting. This usually happens with the very last few connections. So usually optimization takes on after restarting.

Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #153 on: Mon, 07 November 2011, 23:39:22 »
Quote from: PrinsValium;447253
I'm not completely sure how diodes work, but I think they will not lead any current at all if their forward voltage is not reached.

LED's are tricky things. You should try hooking one up to a power supply sometime. I have an unregulated power supply with voltage adjustment (in the from of a panel-mounted variac). One day, I plugged a LED into it. I turned on the power supply, and slowly cranked up the voltage.

To my surprise, the voltage stayed almost completely constant. This is because the diode "forced" the circuit to operate at it's forward voltage. This meant that when I twisted the knob, instead of changing the voltage like it normally did, the power supply changed it's current into the LED. This was almost unmeasurable, as I was putting about 5-20 mA into it, and the gauge goes up to 10A.

Now, if you have a regulated power supply, then things can change. Depending on the type of regulation, a diode might not operate at all until it's voltage threshold is reached.

The standard LED driver that I've looked into is a constant current source. Since the LED is already a fixed voltage, a constant current will fix the power, brightness, etc. This is not always so simple, as the best way to make a constant current power supply seems to be making a constant voltage power supply, and running the output through a diode. So you could do that.

Perhaps a better way, and certainly one that is utilized more frequently by flashlight makers is to control the brightness by making a power supply capable of outputting the maximum current, then pulsing it (PWM). The "width" of the on/off square wave will determine the brightness. Make sure it's over 65 Hertz, or you'll see it flicker, especially at night. I was considering using a 555 timer (or similar) and fixing it at some arbitrarily high rate, then using that to flip a transistor, thereby flashing the light, but this doesn't work, as the frequency doesn't really matter that much, it's the "duty cycle" or "percentage of the time the square wave is high" that determines the brightness.

Of course this should be pretty easy to do with a microcontroller. You'd need just one pin to control the brightness, by running the signal through a transistor, which switches the power (current) from the LED powersupply (AKA 5V to 3.3V source, or otherwise current limited supply from USB power ) to the LED bank. Then, by switching the ground sinks, you can theoretically control the LED's individually as a matrix, though I don't know if there's enough pins for all that on the chip.

Quote from: PrinsValium;447253
This would do as a built in safety feature to make it impossible to drive more than one LED per column at time even if every row would be connected to ground. One row is at most 14 LEDs, 14 × 25mA is "only" 325mA. The diodes might be able to take short bursts of current higher than their specified continuous current rating.

They usually can. I'd recommend reading the unusually good datasheets that CREE puts out as a general guide. Also, if there's some sort of hesitating on the package, then it'll be better.

Quote from: PrinsValium;447253
This should be clear from the LED datasheet in that case.

Like I said: usually, but I've soon some poor LED datasheets. Some (most) are abysmal.
Quote from: PrinsValium;447253
I think this is probably an unnecessary risk though. That would require more interesting programming involving timer overflow interrupts to ensure no LEDs are burst fed for too long =) The output couldn't be increased by too much though because of the 500mA roof.

Are you suggesting that you set up a "flicker" like what I have suggested, but instead of having each LED be hot, then neutral, you switch power down the line (I like to think of those lights going around in a circle on movie display boards outside the theater.) Hmm, that could work well, though each line would only be hot for 100/(# of columns) %of the time, so you'd probably need much higher current (theoretically (# of columns) more) for each pulse to achieve the equivalent brightness. This should not be an issue for lower brightnesses, though.

Quote from: PrinsValium;447253
I also don't know how much current that can be passed through the Teensy board itself. The ATmega is specified to be able to supply the 40mA/pin. The ground connections on the Teensy board would be subjected to ~400mA though. I don't know how thick those traces are. It would of course be possible to wire the USB ground directly onto the keyboard PCB as well.

Ideally, I'd say you'd not be passing any appreciable current through the TEENSY, just using it to flip a transistor on and off for you. You colud power the LED's completely separately, and not even have to worry about the grounds, unless you want to also control each LED on/off with the teensy, but even then, 400 mA should be enough for that, as USB is only specc'd to 500 mA in the first place. Though maybe this is more a limitation of USB, not the teensy. Does the Teensy draw a max of 100 mA? If so, then this makes sense.

Quote from: PrinsValium;447253
My idea is to interleave the scans of the two matrices. First the LED matrix is scanned. This requires the B-port to be set as outputs. Then the key matrix is scanned, B-port as inputs with pull-up resistors.
During the LED scan the column pins control which LEDs get lit, and during the key scan they control which column to scan. Depending on the key scan frequency needed N LED scans could be done per key scan.

This is all microcontroller stuff, and I have more experience with analog stuff, so I really can't comment here.

Anyway, I'm off to bed now. I hope this made sense to at least someone. As always, I'm not a EE, so take with brick of salt.

Offline bpiphany

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« Reply #154 on: Tue, 08 November 2011, 01:16:52 »
[/QUOTE]
Quote from: dorkvader;447819
LED's are tricky things. [...]
The standard LED driver that I've looked into is a constant current source. Since the LED is already a fixed voltage, a constant current will fix the power, brightness, etc. This is not always so simple, as the best way to make a constant current power supply seems to be making a constant voltage power supply, and running the output through a diode. So you could do that.


I've been reading electronics-for-beginners-books the last couple of weeks, and when they are building a power supply this is the exact way they control the voltage. They use the reverse voltage of a zener diode though as this is more distinct I think.

Quote from: dorkvader;447819
Perhaps a better way, and certainly one that is utilized more frequently by flashlight makers is to control the brightness by making a power supply capable of outputting the maximum current, then pulsing it (PWM).


The ATmega chips have some pins with built in PWM. I've been using this to "dim" the diodes on my symmetric stagger boards. It took some head bashing to the ATmega data sheet (500 pages of EE stuff) but once I got the hang of it I was able to make it work at least.

Quote from: dorkvader;447819

Are you suggesting that you set up a "flicker" like what I have suggested, but instead of having each LED be hot, then neutral, you switch power down the line (I like to think of those lights going around in a circle on movie display boards outside the theater.) Hmm, that could work well, though each line would only be hot for 100/(# of columns) %of the time, so you'd probably need much higher current (theoretically (# of columns) more) for each pulse to achieve the equivalent brightness. This should not be an issue for lower brightnesses, though.


I was thinking of lighting up the rows one at a time. So a duty cycle of ~1/5 would be obtained. Have one pin for each of the columns to control which LEDs to light up. First set these pins to the desired pattern on the first row. Connect first row to ground for 1/5 cycle. Apply the desired pattern for the second row to the column pins. Connect second row to ground for 1/5 cycle, and so on...

I was told at a electronics forum that apparently you don't need to increase the intensity of the diode with the inverse of the duty cycle. Funky eye/brain features lowers this number significantly. Even though the total output of photons is lower, the eye/brain is fooled by the higher maximum intensity. The 7-segment displays I was asking about there are able to take about 3 times the continuous current at a 1/10 duty cycle and in 0.1ms bursts. This should add up to about the same perceived brightness.

I can see how it would probably be quite abysmal to have the firmware hang when driving some LEDs at 3 times their rated continuous current... So some care in the programming would be advisable =D Probably have timer controlled interrupts to ensure that no row is hot for too long. I haven't even started looking into interrupt programming though...

Quote from: dorkvader;447819
Of course this should be pretty easy to do with a microcontroller. You'd need just one pin to control the brightness, by running the signal through a transistor, which switches the power (current) from the LED powersupply (AKA 5V to 3.3V source, or otherwise current limited supply from USB power ) to the LED bank. Then, by switching the ground sinks, you can theoretically control the LED's individually as a matrix, though I don't know if there's enough pins for all that on the chip.


So that is 14 pins for the columns and 5 pins for the rows. Then I don't see any problem reusing the 5 row pins as input pins when reading the key matrix. So after cycling all LED rows, the row pins are set as input, and the column pins are pulled low one at a time the usual way. Now we have to be able to disconnect ground from the row transistors, so add another (beefier) transistor that connects them all to ground (takes one more pin to control).

Quote from: dorkvader;447819

Ideally, I'd say you'd not be passing any appreciable current through the TEENSY, just using it to flip a transistor on and off for you. You colud power the LED's completely separately, and not even have to worry about the grounds, unless you want to also control each LED on/off with the teensy, but even then, 400 mA should be enough for that, as USB is only specc'd to 500 mA in the first place. Though maybe this is more a limitation of USB, not the teensy. Does the Teensy draw a max of 100 mA? If so, then this makes sense.


No, I can hardly think it draws 100mA on it's own. I was only trying to say that 14×25mA would safely be below 500mA. This however still doesn't cut it =P I added an edit to my last post. The maximum total current rating of the ATmega is 200mA so pulling 14×25mA through it is probably a very bad idea. I thought it would be great to avoid the 14 extra transistors for supplying the columns directly from USB power but it is probably advisable to use them anyhow.

Quote from: dorkvader;447819
As always, I'm not a EE, so take with brick of salt.


Whoever said he was? =D

Offline bpiphany

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« Reply #155 on: Tue, 08 November 2011, 02:05:45 »
I think I might have figured out how f@#¤ing diodes do work... The voltage drop across the PN transition in the diode is a constant independent of the current through it (well actually it is an exponential relation I=ke^V, the diode is the expodweeb¹, and you'd have to consult the load line).  If the voltage V across a diode is greater than V_d (it's forward voltage) it can be seen as a voltage source (with zero resistance) of V_d in the reverse direction. So applying V>V_d across it will give rise to an infinite current through the diode, quickly killing it.. Connect a resistor in series with the diode and you have made yourself a voltage divider. The voltage across the resistor V_r is IR and across the diode it still is V_d. V=V_R+V_d=IR+V_d, I=(V-V_d)/R, R is used to control the current to the desired level.

Now, that made so much sense I might just as well call it a day and go back to sleep =D

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Offline ishtob

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« Reply #156 on: Thu, 10 November 2011, 14:15:24 »
ran into an issue with the LED, they are theright size, but the base of the LED is too wide for the switch's housing

anyone knows where to get a 3mm LED  that doesnt have that plastic lip at the base?
« Last Edit: Thu, 10 November 2011, 14:22:54 by ishtob »

Offline braaaiiins

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« Reply #157 on: Thu, 10 November 2011, 23:00:52 »
I hope one of you decides to play with RGB LEDs soon.

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #158 on: Thu, 10 November 2011, 23:04:12 »
Quote from: braaaiiins;449749
I hope one of you decides to play with RGB LEDs soon.
dont those have more than 2 leads?

Offline braaaiiins

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« Reply #159 on: Thu, 10 November 2011, 23:33:42 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;449751
dont those have more than 2 leads?

Yea, they have 4 total.

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« Reply #160 on: Thu, 10 November 2011, 23:35:48 »
Quote from: braaaiiins;449757
Yea, they have 4 total.
To my knowledge you can only fit a led with 2 leads into a cherry switch without modification of the switch casing.

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #161 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 00:50:38 »
aite, so some exact knife work did the trick, but i only did 5, it takes FOREVER!!

also remind me not to do another PCB during midterms :P there was so much mistake i'm pretty sure i've mastered the art of point-to-point soldering.... anyways, here's the result:


oh, and this is what i'm typing on at the moment.
no mre cutting needed on the case :D )

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #162 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 00:52:17 »
Nice so what kinks do we have to work out yet?

Also I think that I am going to do the Phantom build as well because 7bit's layout really peaked my interests.

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« Reply #163 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 01:15:03 »
so the few kinks I've fixed by cutting with xacto and point-point solder, I've also revised the PCB file as I correct each mistake.
There's also how the Teensy is mounted... I'm not too happy with it, I had to saw off half a mini usb connector and solder a tiny wire to each individual line then wire to the PCB... so it looks like this: it was darn difficult, anyone knows a better way?

notice gap next to the space bar swithc, I've moved the teensy on the revised layout over a bit more to allow that stupid little stub of a miniusb more room

i got so it should be 99% now (yea I've only been typing on this for about 30min so I may have still missed something.)

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #164 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 01:22:04 »
Ialso I assume by the first pic that the LEDs are working what method did you use to achieve this and stay below the max output by a single usb port?

also is this the most recent pcb?
« Last Edit: Fri, 11 November 2011, 01:25:00 by TheProfosist »

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #165 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 01:25:43 »
i a cutting the current by 50% of max, i've found a chart somewhere showing that lowering the current does not lower birghtness in a linear fashion, so it's still plenty bright at 5mA. running them all parallel should use about 300mA, I read somewhere tha tmost keyboard only draws a max of 250mA, so I'm hoping that teensy would be on the lower end of that, and fit the ~500mA

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #166 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 01:35:15 »
Alright, everything sounds good and together. Could post a up to date files and material needed? And if you have any recommended places please share them.

I plan to get stuff like the switches and the stabilizers from the groupbuy for the Phantom. I wonder if SP could do doubleshot keys that would work with backlighting, the cost might be killer though. As for the case, you used a poker case, what do you think the best option for that is?

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« Reply #167 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 02:19:25 »
I heard WASD is going to be stocking the stabilizers at the end of this year, I kinda want to pick up some and switch out the current one.

I'm going to double check the file again and get it posted sometimes this weekend. If someone is savey with solidworks or CAD stuff, feel free to make a plate for us... I'm terrible at autocad, the last model I made was made in meters instead of millimeters :P

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« Reply #168 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 02:25:58 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;449790
Also I think that I am going to do the Phantom build as well because 7bit's layout really peaked my interests.

yea I was looking at that project too, I'm considering getting one to replace my GF's ducky... but she's being really resistant about me spending more $$$ on keyboards and wants to stick to her ducky browns

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« Reply #169 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 02:36:14 »
Quote from: ishtob;449825
yea I was looking at that project too, I'm considering getting one to replace my GF's ducky... but she's being really resistant about me spending more $$$ on keyboards and wants to stick to her ducky browns
I really liked 7bits layout and had to take a crack at making a layout for it and I actually think the layout is better than the DOX one that I made.

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #170 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 02:47:52 »
erm... so odd thing, i never noticed that the teensy LED lights every time something is pressed, and since it is now the top side, you can see  it flash as you type....  its pretty cool actually

Offline bpiphany

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« Reply #171 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 04:18:21 »
Quote from: ishtob;449434
ran into an issue with the LED, they are theright size, but the base of the LED is too wide for the switch's housing

anyone knows where to get a 3mm LED  that doesnt have that plastic lip at the base?


Depending on how brittle the plastic is, use either a very sharp chisel (or knife) or just sand it off...

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #172 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 10:32:31 »
i used exacto knife to draw a line then use a plier to crack the section off

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #173 on: Sat, 12 November 2011, 23:27:00 »
Is it possibly to lock a function layer with the teensy (like toggling on and off)?

Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #174 on: Sun, 13 November 2011, 08:50:44 »
It's just a program, of course it's possible. The question is how easy is it to get that particular firmware modified for that behavior.
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« Reply #175 on: Sun, 13 November 2011, 14:04:19 »
Quote from: alaricljs;451105
It's just a program, of course it's possible. The question is how easy is it to get that particular firmware modified for that behavior.
Alright, well I will have to see once the firmware for the Phantom is made available then.

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« Reply #176 on: Mon, 14 November 2011, 09:57:58 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;447027
o nice, didnt look at it that way. Any ideas on the power consumption  of the LEDs? now were going to need ourselves some double shot backlight compatible keycaps.


going to try to make the LED into series of 2's to split the current.. we won't be able to drive any LED that requires more than 2.5V but it will significantly cut down the current usage for all the LED within the voltage range (msot are around 2.1-2.2V)

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« Reply #177 on: Mon, 14 November 2011, 16:02:36 »
Quote from: ishtob;451810
going to try to make the LED into series of 2's to split the current.. we won't be able to drive any LED that requires more than 2.5V but it will significantly cut down the current usage for all the LED within the voltage range (msot are around 2.1-2.2V)
have you found any LEDs that meet those specifications?

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« Reply #178 on: Mon, 14 November 2011, 16:13:39 »
no.. the 3mm fits, but have to be filed/trimmed before it would sit flush against the switch housing

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« Reply #179 on: Mon, 14 November 2011, 16:14:28 »
oh u mean the spec of what I'm making? yes, the orange LED i use are 2.2V, and i've been running thme at 6mA with reasonable (non-blinding, but bright enough to shine through) brightness

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« Reply #180 on: Mon, 14 November 2011, 16:25:19 »
I though white would look cool though orange would definitely be interesting.

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« Reply #181 on: Mon, 14 November 2011, 19:28:53 »
white would be cool, we just need to find ones that uses less than 2.5V and it will work wiht the new layout, oh here it is in the attachments

i worked out the issues with the prototype I bought, this one should be better, not saying its goin got be 100% mistakes free, since I learn from trial and error :P

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« Reply #182 on: Tue, 15 November 2011, 12:00:17 »
I am rather curious, what was wrong with having the LED's facing the other direction? Personally I would think if you have front printed keycaps then having the LED to the front could show through nicely, while if you have normal printed keycaps then having the LED to the back could be quite nice. I am only saying printed keycaps because I can not that the LED light would show through printed/engraved/lasered keycaps unless they were actually already semi-transparent themselves or had "windows" as some keycaps do like the leopold capslock for example.
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« Reply #183 on: Tue, 15 November 2011, 14:13:03 »
I tried both orientations before I decided this way, I have a set of the old filch set as you can tell from what I've posted, the white plastic used let's some light through(though only visible in a dark room) while the grey doesn't, it doesn't get captured well on camera :(

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« Reply #184 on: Wed, 16 November 2011, 01:20:45 »
getting back light keys for this is going to be pretty hard I might just skip that and get clears caps pertaining that they are labeled. Have we looked into a plate or case  for this pcb?

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« Reply #185 on: Wed, 16 November 2011, 11:56:22 »
the PCB works with the poker case, that's what I've been using... I'm still looking into having a plate fabricated to also fit in the poker

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« Reply #186 on: Wed, 16 November 2011, 18:39:39 »
Has there been much interest in attempting to achieve NKRO via PS/2? I know for most people that isn't a deal breaker, but it has come in handy more times than not and I really don't want to go back to those dark ages without it.

I am currently looking over the PCB for changing the layout slightly to use the original sized right shift key, although I do not know the exact position for the mount. It seems like every version of the PCB I have seen on here needed modification in some way, almost every time it seems like extra wires were necessary as opposed to completely PCB based connections. Is there any documentation on the PCB to teensy connections?
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Offline bloodygood

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« Reply #187 on: Wed, 16 November 2011, 18:53:41 »
Quote from: ripster;453596
I herd NKRO gaming on the Model F AT is making a comeback in some Hipster circles.

But other than that........................
I had a temp job a while back doing books to braille and for the software we were using it was actually essential to have nkro to type out the characters. I am sure there are more efficient methods out there but you try convincing a boss who is many levels above you to change their business ways.
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Looking for: IBM Model M SpaceSaver, HHKB Topre keychain. >> Feedback Thread

Offline Dox

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« Reply #188 on: Wed, 16 November 2011, 19:08:24 »
NKRO over USB is possible with the teensy. I'ts already available in hasu's code too!
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Offline bloodygood

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« Reply #189 on: Wed, 16 November 2011, 19:17:47 »
But is that NKRO only when in Windows like the Noppoo Choc Mini? Because I run Debian Gnu/Linux as my primary operating system,
Current collection: Filco Tenkeyless MX Brown, IBM Model M, Happy Hacking Keyboard Lite II, Dell AT101W.
Looking for: IBM Model M SpaceSaver, HHKB Topre keychain. >> Feedback Thread

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #190 on: Wed, 16 November 2011, 19:19:47 »
I get 6KRO on mac, im not sure about other platforms since mac is all I have at the moment

Offline N8N

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« Reply #191 on: Wed, 16 November 2011, 19:21:16 »
I dunno how the Choc Mini works, but the Choc Pro works just fine under Ubuntu.  The only weirdness is the Caps Lock LED which we've discussed before and actually appears to be a Linux issue rather than an issue with the keyboard; it would seem that the coders didn't allow for the possibility that more than one keyboard would be plugged in simultanously (I have a similar issue with any keyboard plugged into a laptop) It still will register more keys simultaneously than I have fingers :)

I'm happily typing this on a Choc Pro right now and just ignoring the damn LED.
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline Dox

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« Reply #192 on: Wed, 16 November 2011, 19:32:16 »
Quote from: ishtob;453629
I get 6KRO on mac, im not sure about other platforms since mac is all I have at the moment
You need to activate the NKRO feature in the code. I think it have been tested with Windows and Ubuntu, not sure about other distros and mac.
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Offline litster

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« Reply #193 on: Wed, 16 November 2011, 19:46:32 »
where can I find the Teensy sample code to enable NKRO over USB feature?  Thanks.

Offline Dox

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« Reply #194 on: Wed, 16 November 2011, 19:50:50 »
Quote from: litster;453661
where can I find the Teensy sample code to enable NKRO over USB feature?  Thanks.
You,can look into Hasu's GitHub repertory..

But tere is no sample code. I think that the big part of it is how you configure the USB reports.
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #195 on: Wed, 16 November 2011, 20:53:04 »
yea I just thought now that a normal right shift might be better the I can order http://tinyurl.com/3tdnuu7 and actually use the feature. yes I know that I am going to have to change my layout a bit but I think that the normal caps might trump that. (right now im thinking of right alt for the right FN key)

Offline bloodygood

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« Reply #196 on: Wed, 16 November 2011, 20:58:18 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;453688
yea I just thought now that a normal right shift might be better the I can order http://tinyurl.com/3tdnuu7 and actually use the feature. yes I know that I am going to have to change my layout a bit but I think that the normal caps might trump that. (right now im thinking of right alt for the right FN key)
My idea if you remember was replace the Menu key with the Fn key, and that actually works out very comfortably with pl;' for arrow keys. Try it out by placing your pinky on the menu key and reaching to the Fn layer I laid out. (I use thumb plus any finger for reaching top row comfortably)

Although for those that want options perhaps we could influence someone like WASD to get one of the short right shift keys and add it so his mold collection? I would think there wouldn't be any foul for him to make a mold of one of those and distribute keys for buyers like us. That way we could have fully customized keycaps for our new keyboard.
« Last Edit: Wed, 16 November 2011, 21:04:21 by bloodygood »
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Looking for: IBM Model M SpaceSaver, HHKB Topre keychain. >> Feedback Thread

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #197 on: Wed, 16 November 2011, 21:27:02 »
have just tried both Menu and Right Alt. Both are uncomfortable but Menu more so than right alt both are not optimal. I vote for a layer that locking right shift into being Fn with a layer as personally I dont use the key though it shouldnt be too hard to edit this to be any key you want on the right side thats why it will be it own layer. Also left Win would be the Fn layer as Left Ctrl is also uncomfortable. Standard the keyboard will have a standard layout but there will be a toggleable layer for a HHKB layout. Also the keyboard will have a standard backspace for compatibility of key caps and because my original design was designed to have a high adoption rate with new users. I will make the layout soon, right now I am working on updating my Phantom layout.

ishtob would you be willing to change up the pcb when you have time?

Also where can I source stabilizers? Because were having trouble with that in the Phantom groupbuy. I remember mention of diodes in the beginning, I understand what they are used for but where are they put?

As for the plate we still need one of those as well as some sort of backplate for those people who dont want to cannibalize a poker.

Offline bloodygood

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« Reply #198 on: Wed, 16 November 2011, 21:31:36 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;453700
have just tried both Menu and Right Alt. Both are uncomfortable but Menu more so than right alt both are not optimal. I vote for a layer that locking right shift into being Fn with a layer as personally I dont use the key though it shouldnt be too hard to edit this to be any key you want on the right side thats why it will be it own layer. Also left Win would be the Fn layer as Left Ctrl is also uncomfortable. Standard the keyboard will have a standard layout but there will be a toggleable layer for a HHKB layout. Also the keyboard will have a standard backspace for compatibility of key caps and because my original design was designed to have a high adoption rate with new users. I will make the layout soon, right now I am working on updating my Phantom layout.

ishtob would you be willing to change up the pcb when you have time?

Also where can I source stabilizers? Because were having trouble with that in the Phantom groupbuy. I remember mention of diodes in the beginning, I understand what they are used for but where are they put?

As for the plate we still need one of those as well as some sort of backplate for those people who dont want to cannibalize a poker.
I am pretty sure WASD said he would be receiving stabilizers very soon (costar and cherry I believe) In the mean time I think mouser has the Cherry ones if I am not mistaken.
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Looking for: IBM Model M SpaceSaver, HHKB Topre keychain. >> Feedback Thread

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #199 on: Wed, 16 November 2011, 21:51:11 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;453688
yea I just thought now that a normal right shift might be better the I can order http://tinyurl.com/3tdnuu7 and actually use the feature. yes I know that I am going to have to change my layout a bit but I think that the normal caps might trump that. (right now im thinking of right alt for the right FN key)

I can change the layout for you if that i what you want