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Offline Dox

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« Reply #400 on: Sun, 20 November 2011, 17:21:15 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;456339
Well have a plate though.
As I feared, judging by the construction of the case and the hole location, the plate wont make much difference in term of stiffness.
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #401 on: Sun, 20 November 2011, 17:25:14 »
Quote from: Dox;456346
As I feared, judging by the construction of the case and the hole location, the plate wont make much difference in term of stiffness.
Thats not good to hear. Well, I still want plate mounted switches and it will add some more weight to the keyboard.

Offline bloodygood

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« Reply #402 on: Sun, 20 November 2011, 17:31:50 »
Just the plate would probably be enough weight by itself. So perhaps it is time to start looking for a new case, or are some going to decide to do PCB mounted instead. I think it would be great to have a plate like in the original article
http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=19745&d=1309065940
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Offline Dox

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« Reply #403 on: Sun, 20 November 2011, 17:33:09 »
It might add a bit of stiffness but not as much as a standard plate mounted keyboard. As you said, it will add some weight and protect the PCB too.
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Offline bloodygood

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« Reply #404 on: Sun, 20 November 2011, 17:48:09 »
based on this. Would it be fair to use this method

row 1 - F0
row 2 - F1
row 3 - F4
row 4 - F5
row 5 - F6
This would keep all rows out of the way if the Teensy is on the back. And change the code to read in PF by number instead of PB by number.
Then all pins along the top could be used (except for GND) for tracing the columns in easier.
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Offline ishtob

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« Reply #405 on: Sun, 20 November 2011, 19:44:48 »
Quote from: Dox;456355
It might add a bit of stiffness but not as much as a standard plate mounted keyboard. As you said, it will add some weight and protect the PCB too.

if we can get titanium or carbon fiber plates, it might fix the flex

Offline BiNiaRiS

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« Reply #406 on: Sun, 20 November 2011, 22:02:54 »
how hard would it be to change this to be able to use an off-center caps, 1.5 control/alt keys, and a longer 7 unit spacebar?
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Offline tsangan

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« Reply #407 on: Sun, 20 November 2011, 22:39:23 »
Quote from: BiNiaRiS;456482
how hard would it be to change this to be able to use an off-center caps, 1.5 control/alt keys, and a longer 7 unit spacebar?
That would be pretty awesome you would get 1.5x control/alt keys + 7x space bar fit and 2 1x modifiers. I would definitely be down for that ;D
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Offline ishtob

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« Reply #408 on: Sun, 20 November 2011, 23:04:44 »
its not too hard, just need to measure things out

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #409 on: Sun, 20 November 2011, 23:28:38 »
Quote from: Dox;456355
It might add a bit of stiffness but not as much as a standard plate mounted keyboard. As you said, it will add some weight and protect the PCB too.
Sounds like more than enough benefit for me.

Offline bpiphany

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« Reply #410 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 00:07:06 »
Quote from: ishtob;456284
im running the LED's at 6mA, not 25mA

I was under the impression that LEDs really didn't like to be fed that far below their typical ratings. But it seems like I was just plain old wrong =P

Quote from: Dox;456346
As I feared, judging by the construction of the case and the hole location, the plate wont make much difference in term of stiffness.

Quote from: TheProfosist;456550
Sounds like more than enough benefit for me.

I actually think a plate will do a lot of difference, unlike that foam which I cant see how it would help at all... The plate and PCB form sort of a sandwich construction with the switches making up for the intermediate "honeycomb".

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #411 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 11:50:22 »
Quote from: PrinsValium;456569
I actually think a plate will do a lot of difference, unlike that foam which I cant see how it would help at all... The plate and PCB form sort of a sandwich construction with the switches making up for the intermediate "honeycomb".
I agree with that from my experience of taking my Rosewills apart.

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #412 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 12:19:16 »
ishtob hows the pcb coming along for my layout?

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #413 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 12:52:38 »
Im coming up with a prts list for my self right now and am going to try to track down what I need from as few places as possible.

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #414 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 12:56:01 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;455704
So the template is finished.

Show Image


is is this one?
there was like 5 different versions each with small differences

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #415 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 12:57:26 »
Quote from: ishtob;456807
is is this one?
there was like 5 different versions each with small differences
Sorry about thet. That is the template for WASD,  here is a better layout of the layers http://tinyurl.com/7zy8wzc

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #416 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 13:00:29 »
aite i'll get working on that later tonight, at school right now with a mac, so cant use the pcb design software

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #417 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 13:02:47 »
Quote from: ishtob;456811
aite i'll get working on that later tonight, at school right now with a mac, so cant use the pcb design software
Its cool once done i will be able to find out how many and what size resistors I need so I can find them and get them on my parts list. Were you able to get a LED into the toggle switch as my Fn 2 is going to use a toggle switch.

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #418 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 13:06:39 »
erm school been busy so u notice me being a little less active, i think I got the design needed for the LED to fit, I'll have to double check though... I might just make the entire mod row have that etra hole for toggle so others who wants to do the same will be able to get LED at any mod position they like

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #419 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 13:16:34 »
Anyone know where I can pick up the correct LEDs that meet our specifications. I tried looking on Online Components buy could really find a way to find a way to search by the specs of the LED.

Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #420 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 14:26:17 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;456819
Anyone know where I can pick up the correct LEDs that meet our specifications. I tried looking on Online Components buy could really find a way to find a way to search by the specs of the LED.

I have some experiance in this. But I've only ever ordered through my university tho, so I won't know about the ordering/shipping. But I've gotten things from them and they do bulk discounts.They should also have original component datasheets. If you need help picking components I may be of use. Otherwise, have a look at the following links.

http://www.rapidonline.com/
http://www.rs-online.com/index.html
http://www.farnell.com/
« Last Edit: Mon, 21 November 2011, 14:30:09 by hazeluff »
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #421 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 14:31:32 »
Quote from: ishtob;456817
erm school been busy so u notice me being a little less active, i think I got the design needed for the LED to fit, I'll have to double check though... I might just make the entire mod row have that etra hole for toggle so others who wants to do the same will be able to get LED at any mod position they like
Its cool I dont plan on ordering anything till I have a design and a source for everything and I definitely cannot order until WASD get the needed parts in. I am trying to get everything together just so that I know whats missing and to make it easier once I do order.

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #422 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 14:34:57 »
Quote from: hazeluff;456857
I have some experiance in this. But I've only ever ordered through my university tho, so I won't know about the ordering/shipping. But I've gotten things from them and they do bulk discounts.They should also have original component datasheets. If you need help picking components I may be of use. Otherwise, have a look at the following links.

http://www.rapidonline.com/
http://www.rs-online.com/index.html
http://www.farnell.com/
Yea, help would be appreciated. I just tried online components because that is where I will be getting the switches from if I cant get them from POS boards. And I have to order the toggle switch from there as I havnt seen it anywhere else. I am looking for red 3mm leds. I forgot the other specifications that ishtob mentioned.

Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #423 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 15:32:46 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;456864
Yea, help would be appreciated. I just tried online components because that is where I will be getting the switches from if I cant get them from POS boards. And I have to order the toggle switch from there as I havnt seen it anywhere else. I am looking for red 3mm leds. I forgot the other specifications that ishtob mentioned.

Your other specs should be:

Voltage and current ratings.

I'll have a look at the sites and pick some out for you in a bit.
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #424 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 15:43:03 »
Quote from: hazeluff;456912
Your other specs should be:

Voltage and current ratings.

I'll have a look at the sites and pick some out for you in a bit.
The voltage should be right around 2.5.

Offline Dox

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« Reply #425 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 16:14:06 »
Quote from: PrinsValium;456569
I actually think a plate will do a lot of difference, unlike that foam which I cant see how it would help at all... The plate and PCB form sort of a sandwich construction with the switches making up for the intermediate "honeycomb".
I didn't think about it that way but you are right, joining the PCB and the plates with the switches will add quite a bit of stiffness to the assembly!
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #426 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 16:15:18 »
Quote from: Dox;456946
I didn't think about it that way but you are right, joining the PCB and the plates with the switches will add quite a bit of stiffness to the assembly!
Do you still need the inside measurements of the poker case from ishtob?

Offline Dox

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« Reply #427 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 16:25:50 »
Yes, that would help to have the inside dimensions of the case to make sure I design it to go as close as possible to the case borders.
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #428 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 16:27:44 »
Quote from: Dox;456956
Yes, that would help to have the inside dimensions of the case to make sure I design it to go as close as possible to the case borders.
Any idea on the cost of a plate?

Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #429 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 16:48:04 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;456920
The voltage should be right around 2.5.

http://www.alliedelec.com is one thats hidden in some of the previous links. They seem to do US business but not sure about the costs of shipping.
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=3980207
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=5110712
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=4360224
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=6701058

Farnell is EU/Pacific based and charges 15gbp for shipping outside of EU. But they have an amazing search system.
I did my search using the folowing parameters
Voltage: up to 2.5V
Color: Red
Size: Up to 3mm and T-1 (standard that's 3mm large)


http://export.farnell.com/avago-technologies/hlmp301-f0000/led-3mm-gaasp-red/dp/1863178
http://export.farnell.com/multicomp/mc20449/led-t-1-red-20mcd-635nm/dp/1249909
http://export.farnell.com/vishay-semiconductor/tlhr4405/led-t-1-red-10mcd-625nm/dp/1020592
http://export.farnell.com/lumex/ssl-lx3044lid/led-3mm-red-30mcd-635nm/dp/2062532
http://export.farnell.com/kingbright/l-173id/led-tombstone-2-5-x-5-mm-red/dp/2001625
http://export.farnell.com/kingbright/l-934id/led-3mm-red/dp/1142517
http://export.farnell.com/kingbright/l-424idt/led-flat-top-3mm-he-red/dp/1142497 (Float top, if you're into that kinda thing)

As you can see there's alot of choices. No real need to pick very carefully among different products. They're all pretty much the same thing.
Things you may want to notice are:
Luminosity (Brightness, tho you'll find the "dimmer" ones are still bright enough)
Max/Typical Current (Higher means you can be a bit more careless in making sure the voltage supplied doesn't blow it up)
Max/Typical Voltage (Same goes here. I'll explain some issues at the end, cos this topic is a bit long)

Things you probably don't give a rat's ass or shouldn't
Wavelength (That pretty much defines color)
Viewing Angle (I believe it's the angle at which the brightness/intensity drops below 50%)

I don't think there's anything you need to be picky about when choosing them. So Basically anything you choose won't be an issue, you might just want to go for the cheapest.

As for picking your max/typical voltage. The most important thing to remember is that if the Bulb gets too much current/voltage, it will heat up to the temperature of the sun and DIE. So for those which can't tolerate up to 2.5V you'll have to put resistors in series to stop them from frying, even if it's not I would still suggest doing so, just to be safe.

I only know these sites for getting components (I'm in the UK and Uni orders from these). So if anyone knows any better place, that's probably better.
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #430 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 16:54:25 »
Quote from: hazeluff;456974
http://www.alliedelec.com is one thats hidden in some of the previous links. They seem to do US business but not sure about the costs of shipping.
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=3980207
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=5110712
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=4360224
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=6701058

Farnell is EU/Pacific based and charges 15gbp for shipping outside of EU. But they have an amazing search system.
I did my search using the folowing parameters
Voltage: up to 2.5V
Color: Red
Size: Up to 3mm and T-1 (standard that's 3mm large)


http://export.farnell.com/avago-technologies/hlmp301-f0000/led-3mm-gaasp-red/dp/1863178
http://export.farnell.com/multicomp/mc20449/led-t-1-red-20mcd-635nm/dp/1249909
http://export.farnell.com/vishay-semiconductor/tlhr4405/led-t-1-red-10mcd-625nm/dp/1020592
http://export.farnell.com/lumex/ssl-lx3044lid/led-3mm-red-30mcd-635nm/dp/2062532
http://export.farnell.com/kingbright/l-173id/led-tombstone-2-5-x-5-mm-red/dp/2001625
http://export.farnell.com/kingbright/l-934id/led-3mm-red/dp/1142517
http://export.farnell.com/kingbright/l-424idt/led-flat-top-3mm-he-red/dp/1142497 (Float top, if you're into that kinda thing)

As you can see there's alot of choices. No real need to pick very carefully among different products. They're all pretty much the same thing.
Things you may want to notice are:
Luminosity (Brightness, tho you'll find the "dimmer" ones are still bright enough)
Max/Typical Current (Higher means you can be a bit more careless in making sure the voltage supplied doesn't blow it up)
Max/Typical Voltage (Same goes here. I'll explain some issues at the end, cos this topic is a bit long)

Things you probably don't give a rat's ass or shouldn't
Wavelength (That pretty much defines color)
Viewing Angle (I believe it's the angle at which the brightness/intensity drops below 50%)

I don't think there's anything you need to be picky about when choosing them. So Basically anything you choose won't be an issue, you might just want to go for the cheapest.

As for picking your max/typical voltage. The most important thing to remember is that if the Bulb gets too much current/voltage, it will heat up to the temperature of the sun and DIE. So for those which can't tolerate up to 2.5V you'll have to put resistors in series to stop them from frying, even if it's not I would still suggest doing so, just to be safe.

I only know these sites for getting components (I'm in the UK and Uni orders from these). So if anyone knows any better place, that's probably better.
Which ones from alliedelec.com would you recommend? And why are the Dialight ones so much more expensive?

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #431 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 17:02:29 »
 Here it is, quick draft version, I havent double checked it yet.

hey profosist, If i post the draft version, would you be able to check for errors? I did a quick alteration to get your layout, but i need to run for a group project meeting, if not i'll take a look alot later tonight

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #432 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 17:04:02 »
prof dont forget when ur getting the LED to check its brightness, not all LED are made equal in its brightness, some can be dimmer but still consume the same amount of current

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #433 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 17:08:04 »
Quote from: ishtob;456982
Here it is, quick draft version, I havent double checked it yet.

hey profosist, If i post the draft version, would you be able to check for errors? I did a quick alteration to get your layout, but i need to run for a group project meeting, if not i'll take a look alot later tonight
I can try to check. What exactly do I need to check?

Quote from: ishtob;456983
prof dont forget when ur getting the LED to check its brightness, not all LED are made equal in its brightness, some can be dimmer but still consume the same amount of current
yes I think that hazeluff mentioned that.

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #434 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 17:12:18 »
see if the connection for the Left FN key and the 2 keys that replaced the backspace are connected right....
the Left FN is actually wired as the Function row of the 2nd column... because I didn't want to make too much modification to the wiring that are already good.. why fix something that isn't broke right? :)

Offline bloodygood

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« Reply #435 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 17:13:20 »
I think the toughest part is not getting everything wired to the Teensy, it is actually doing that and also getting the LEDs in correctly haha. Still making sure the Teensy is on the back though, what a interesting learning experience it has been so far.
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #436 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 17:18:19 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;456978
Which ones from alliedelec.com would you recommend? And why are the Dialight ones so much more expensive?
I think the lumex ones are actually 10mm leds T-3 so they wont work.
the dialight doesnt have much info and is super expensive compared the the others. if it was that much better I would consider it but there really arnt that many specs.
between the VCC and the Kingbright I think the VCC is better. Am I correct?

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« Reply #437 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 17:36:41 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;456992
I think the lumex ones are actually 10mm leds T-3 so they wont work.
the dialight doesnt have much info and is super expensive compared the the others. if it was that much better I would consider it but there really arnt that many specs.
between the VCC and the Kingbright I think the VCC is better. Am I correct?

You're right about the Lumix one. And yes the dialight one is very expensive for some reason.

I did the search again.

http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=4360222#tab=Specs

I'd recommend this one, If I were picking. Its bright and cheap and will run off low voltage. Getting brighter is better than getting dimmer, as if there is anything wrong you can just put in bigger resistors to dim it down. Low typical voltage gives you more room to play around with your circuit.
Almost all of the LEDs are 30mA (I saw like one 25mA one). Also, most of them are sub 2.5V meaning you'll need a resistor in there for all of them.

How many LEDs are you buying? I hope you're getting bulk amounts (as in lighting up your whole board). Because you might as well use eBay to pick up small amounts.
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #438 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 18:15:20 »
Quote from: hazeluff;457002
You're right about the Lumix one. And yes the dialight one is very expensive for some reason.

I did the search again.

http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=4360222#tab=Specs

I'd recommend this one, If I were picking. Its bright and cheap and will run off low voltage. Getting brighter is better than getting dimmer, as if there is anything wrong you can just put in bigger resistors to dim it down. Low typical voltage gives you more room to play around with your circuit.
Almost all of the LEDs are 30mA (I saw like one 25mA one). Also, most of them are sub 2.5V meaning you'll need a resistor in there for all of them.

How many LEDs are you buying? I hope you're getting bulk amounts (as in lighting up your whole board). Because you might as well use eBay to pick up small amounts.
Yea im buying enough for 2 keyboards do at least 130 do you think I should pick up some extras? Also how do if figure out what resistors I am going to need?

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« Reply #439 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 18:26:49 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;457014
Yea im buying enough for 2 keyboards do at least 130 do you think I should pick up some extras? Also how do if figure out what resistors I am going to need?

You will definitely need/want spares (incase you blow a few ; p, I've blown like 2-3 in a project using one...5V over a LED is not smart).

As for resistors, it depends on in what fashion you want to hook them up. I think it'd be most efficient in using one/one set of resistors in series with all/lots of LEDs in Parallel. It really depends on how much room you have in your board.

You can always do one resistor per LED (easy to do the maths or if you want to control each LED individually with circuitry).

If you put a ton of LEDs in parallel you may need a very small resistance for your resistors.

Lets just assume you are using you're 2.5V, and you are pulling 30mA.

For 1 resistor in series with 1 LED:

2.5 - 30m*Resistance = 1.85
Reistance ~= 22 ohm

For 1 resistor in series with n LEDs in parallel:

2.5 - 30m*n*Resistance = 1.85

Feel free to substitute 2.5 for 5v if you use power from your USB.
For the 2.5 V you can support like 20ish LEDs off a 1ohm resistor. (Simple resistor circuit).
For 5V you can do like 100 LEDs off a 1ohm resistor.

I'm not sure which one is the best way to do it. There may some pros and cons I'm not aware of when you hook up so many LEDs in parallel. But in the case of using less components you may not need many. If someone else with some good electronics knowledge will step in and comment on this, that'd be great.

Note: you can make resistance of <1ohm by putting resistors in parallel. e.g. placing 2 1ohm resistors in parallel creates a 0.5ohm equivalent resistor.

If you need to test brightness of the LEDs(for all we know it could be way too bright). You might just grab some extra resistors and hopefully can calibrate the brightness. Something cool you could do (but will cost just a bit more, is getting a potentiometer, so you can adjust brightness as you want,without soldering/adding extra resistors).


Quote
Background to this stuff (for if you want to learn some electronics):

Voltage = Current * Resistance (Voltage dropped across a component is equivalent to the current going through it multiplied by it's current)
Thats where we get
Vcc - IR = VLed (Kirchoffs voltage law)

We want the Resistor to drop the voltage to what the VLed should operate at optimally (1.85V @ 30mA).
Vcc is our power supply (2.5V/5V)
R is the resistance of the resistor in series.

For n LEDs in parallel:

The current from the resistor will be split/comes from all the LEDs (each 30mA). Therefore I can take I and multiply it by n to get the current through the resistor

Vcc - nIR = VLed.
« Last Edit: Mon, 21 November 2011, 19:09:06 by hazeluff »
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #440 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 19:37:13 »
Quote from: hazeluff;457021
You will definitely need/want spares (incase you blow a few ; p, I've blown like 2-3 in a project using one...5V over a LED is not smart).

As for resistors, it depends on in what fashion you want to hook them up. I think it'd be most efficient in using one/one set of resistors in series with all/lots of LEDs in Parallel. It really depends on how much room you have in your board.

You can always do one resistor per LED (easy to do the maths or if you want to control each LED individually with circuitry).

If you put a ton of LEDs in parallel you may need a very small resistance for your resistors.

Lets just assume you are using you're 2.5V, and you are pulling 30mA.

For 1 resistor in series with 1 LED:

2.5 - 30m*Resistance = 1.85
Reistance ~= 22 ohm

For 1 resistor in series with n LEDs in parallel:

2.5 - 30m*n*Resistance = 1.85

Feel free to substitute 2.5 for 5v if you use power from your USB.
For the 2.5 V you can support like 20ish LEDs off a 1ohm resistor. (Simple resistor circuit).
For 5V you can do like 100 LEDs off a 1ohm resistor.

I'm not sure which one is the best way to do it. There may some pros and cons I'm not aware of when you hook up so many LEDs in parallel. But in the case of using less components you may not need many. If someone else with some good electronics knowledge will step in and comment on this, that'd be great.

Note: you can make resistance of <1ohm by putting resistors in parallel. e.g. placing 2 1ohm resistors in parallel creates a 0.5ohm equivalent resistor.

If you need to test brightness of the LEDs(for all we know it could be way too bright). You might just grab some extra resistors and hopefully can calibrate the brightness. Something cool you could do (but will cost just a bit more, is getting a potentiometer, so you can adjust brightness as you want,without soldering/adding extra resistors).
There will mostly be 2 leds in a series the all in parallel but there will be i believe 1 alone since there is a odd number of switches.

Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #441 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 20:09:26 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;457074
There will mostly be 2 leds in a series the all in parallel but there will be i believe 1 alone since there is a odd number of switches.

Look at my uploaded picture (too lazy to type descriptions of circuits). I'd probably use Case 1 (I can't see the reason not to). The only thing will be that if the one resistor fails (very very very very very unlikely) then the whole thing will fail. But I'll assume replacing it won't be hard either. So in my opinion go for that.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 32615[/ATTACH]

If you do Case 1, the resistor R1 should be come out <1ohm but use a 1-2ohm (Don't want to blow out the LEDs, and probably you wont need 100% brightness). For the resistor with the single LED (R1(1)) use a >62ohm resistor.

If you do Case 2, the majority of resistors (R2) should be >43ohm and the single LED resistor (R2(1)) should be >105ohm.

If there are any questions please ask = ).
« Last Edit: Mon, 21 November 2011, 20:11:39 by hazeluff »
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Offline bpiphany

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« Reply #442 on: Tue, 22 November 2011, 00:01:36 »
What happens in case I if one of the LEDs fails? The current through the resistor falls and so does the voltage across it, increasing the voltage across the remaining parallel paths. In this case they are probably many enough to prevent a chain reaction of failing LEDs. Or am I just thinking this wrong?

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« Reply #443 on: Tue, 22 November 2011, 00:10:28 »
you would only get 1 other LED thats in series with the failed one potentially getting damaged, not the whole chain, it shouldnt affect the current draw on the others in the chain

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« Reply #444 on: Tue, 22 November 2011, 00:36:05 »
I am quite sure that in the case with only one resistor for all the LEDs there could be catastrophic failure. If one of the LEDs fails, that path becomes open. Since the voltage drop across the other paths of LEDs is kind of constant independent on current. The current that was initially divided over N paths is now divided over N-1 paths. In this case you will be under powering the LEDs to start with, and N-1~=N. So there would probably have to be multiple failed paths to trigger further smoke.

Well sure, if that resistor is more or less 0ohms to start with of course the voltage drop across it will still remain 0...

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« Reply #445 on: Tue, 22 November 2011, 06:01:30 »
Quote from: PrinsValium;457195
What happens in case I if one of the LEDs fails? The current through the resistor falls and so does the voltage across it, increasing the voltage across the remaining parallel paths. In this case they are probably many enough to prevent a chain reaction of failing LEDs. Or am I just thinking this wrong?

Only if we were running it at a marginally stable state. i.e. We made all the LEDs at it's Maximum Operating Voltage and used the smallest possible resistor.

Since I've suggested the use of a 1-2ohm (Larger than calculated) This drops the voltage lower that the Operating Voltage. It may not achieve maximum brightness, but in the case of one LED failing and causing the voltage across the others to increase, It will not bring the voltage over the Maximum Operating Voltage for all the other LEDs.

 Also as N is large, N-1 ~= N. As someone has stated earlier, making a very little change if one part fails.

The one concern will be testing it out initially, if tons of parts arn't hooked up correct when initially testing the circuit, then there is a chance of killing everything. (I would just test using a large resistor and then slowly decreasing the resistance).

Extras (Prob don't do this, It's just for the sake of engineering and solving the "Problem"): I believe you can put a safety mechanism by placing a resistor in parallel with the groups of LEDs. This introduces a bit of negative feedback, so that if one LED fails and the voltage increases. This resistor will draw a bit more current. Not sure if this will be efficient, as it draws extra current for no apparent reason. I'm also not sure from range of failure it can cover if any. As well as some maths will be needed to be done (and I can't be bothered right now).

Another way, is to have N+1 (+1 for the reference) transistors/MOSFETS in a current mirror configuration making them independent of each other (except for the reference). But you'd need N+1 transitors...

Quote from: ishtob;456285
i might be able to add a pot before the DIP switch to adjust the light level, but its going to be tough fitting that in the poker case... unless you guys dont mind it topside of the poker, under the caps lock

I happened to stumble on this old comment. It's totally viable in my opinion to have varying brightness. Just place the potentiometer in parallel with the resistor (case 1). You can get some pretty small potentiometers and have the nob sticking out on the side or something (You can get some nice covers for the knobs). Another way to do this is have a pulse width modulator to control the LED network (Maybe need a FET to drive the amount of current the LEDs are using). Basically it creates a square wave of different ON widths, that way the LED is ON and OFF for different amounts of time (fooling our eyes that it is different brightness).
« Last Edit: Tue, 22 November 2011, 06:21:41 by hazeluff »
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #446 on: Tue, 22 November 2011, 10:00:32 »
So now I think I need to know from ishtob how many of each resistor I need and it might be good to know how many diodes I need as well then I can start tracking things down.

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« Reply #447 on: Tue, 22 November 2011, 10:24:54 »
which LED were you planning on using?

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« Reply #448 on: Tue, 22 November 2011, 10:26:52 »
Quote from: ishtob;457417
which LED were you planning on using?
The one that hazeluff recommended http://tinyurl.com/bwtfu47

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« Reply #449 on: Tue, 22 November 2011, 10:32:33 »
oh those, I bought 200 of the orange/red version of that... i'll play around with it see what brightness works the 100ohm for the 2 series turned out to be too dark