Dox KB, Build your own!

[TheProfosist]

There are already holes in the PCB and holes in the plate, screw them in shallow and finish screwing them in once they are correctly aligned to the holes in the poker case.
Screw top of plate to standoff. insert all mx switches and solder them to pcb. finish screwing into case.
does that make sense?

How would youy screw the plate to a standoff they would be best hollow as screwing all the way through something just to get to something else is hard and point less though yes it would solve the problem that I listed.

[ishtob]

come on guys, think outside the box or rather.. the poker

[TheProfosist]

i think both of you are missed what i was trying to do

i'm not saying we stand off to the case, we are standing off the PCB on seperate holes, so we can still screw the keybaord on based on those PCB positions, it will be like:

Plate -> stand off on PCB ---THEN--- PCB +plate screwed into the board. so the assembly would already be solid freestanding, now we can just screw the whole thing in and not worry about placing standoffs and screws in without it falling out of place
here's a text diagram if you still don't get it:
plate ---==-----plate----------------------------==------<----usual spot for the screw
.............| <--- standoff + screwed to pcb......|  <--- screw to case
PCB-----------------------------------------------==-------------PCB
...........==<-- bolt for screw from plate........|  <--- screw to case (same screw as the above through PCB)
case----------------------------------------------== <-- bolt on the case

your saying have a plastic standoff and have a screw on the plate and one on the PCB that would work but where to find the standoffs?

[ishtob]

smallparts.com

[bloodygood]

We are all talking about the same kind of standoffs right..?
I was referring to these (obviously generic images, but the idea is the same)

but I get the feeling you were referring to these

[alaricljs]

Well the poker case is designed to be screwed into so you'd be modifying the case and removing the brass nutsert.  Does the case have feet?  You wouldn't be able to use a countersunk screw if there's no feet.

There is no way to do what's in your diagram, the same screw cannot be used to firmly secure the plate and the pcb unless the standoff is a simple unthreaded tube.

[TheProfosist]

smallparts.com

alright so whats the distance between the plate and PCB i know its a standard and what size screws are we going to use?

[bloodygood]

alright so whats the distance between the plate and PCB i know its a standard and what size screws are we going to use?

I get the feeling the standard size is based somewhere on this page
http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/key/mx.htm

[ishtob]

exact measurement between the bottom of the plate to the PCB should be 0.13435039 +/- 0.012 inches ... but i like metric so it's 3.4125mm +/- 0.3mm

[ishtob]

so my keyboard has PCB mounted switches that are also plate mounted... do you think that might effect the feel?

[TheProfosist]

smallparts.com

alright so whats the distance between the plate and PCB i know its a standard and what size screws are we going to use?

[ishtob]

dont know what to use there yet, but i do know the case's bolts take the metric size M2 screws

[TheProfosist]

I just got some more parts in for the switches and have started desoldering them from the pcbs they came on to make ergo clears. Hows the pcb design comming along? Should i start ordering things like the teensy so i will be ready to test the PCB?

[TheProfosist]

Well Ireceived my second poker case today along with some PCBs with switches on so I am good to go in both departments at least for the DOXs.

[ishtob]

cool, sorry i've been busy with family stuff for christmas season, ill get the PCB layout done soon.

[TheProfosist]

cool, sorry i've been busy with family stuff for christmas season, ill get the PCB layout done soon.

Alright sounds good I will need 2 in the end. how are we sitting on the plates once we finalize a design i will forward the design to the correct people to get it ordered. Also the min order for that is 2 of the same design so I am good since I need 2.

[Pyrolistical]

Hey, how thick of the sheet metal did are you using for the case design?  Looks like 1/8"?

I tried loading the eMachineShop file, but that failed in error.

[TheProfosist]

Hey, how thick of the sheet metal did are you using for the case design?  Looks like 1/8"?

I tried loading the eMachineShop file, but that failed in error.

You might want to PM DOX about that because with the current design we are using the case from a Poker.

[TheProfosist]

So where are we sitting after the holidays?

[TheProfosist]

I think I may want to make my DOX more like the 7bit Phantom the only adaptation left would be the short enter key which I think that I will go with if thats possible because then I dont have to worry about the transition at all also the arrow are then in a much more comfortable place.

[TheProfosist]

Started up a assembly service in my subforum if anyone is interested.

[ishtob]

anyone knows a PCB program that allow those overlapping holes, to allow the various placing of the switches?

at this point the person who wish to go with the alternate positions would be left to drill the holes themselves because expresspcb's software wont allow overlapping holes

[bpiphany]

anyone knows a PCB program that allow those overlapping holes, to allow the various placing of the switches?

at this point the person who wish to go with the alternate positions would be left to drill the holes themselves because expresspcb's software wont allow overlapping holes

There is no possibility to have oval/slot holes? Otherwise I think all the common gerber producing softwares are able to do oval/slot holes. I did this on the phantom PCB by calculating the width and position of the slot holes needed, and then added those holes while removing the ordinary ones at those footprints overlapping.

[alaricljs]

ExpressPCB is the Etcha-Sketch of PCB cad...

[ishtob]

hm.. an of them mac compatible?

i am using wine to run ExpressPCB and its few of the software that actually works in that virtual enviroment... is there some plugin I can use, since I have autoCAD and is competent with it

[bpiphany]

KiCAD is what I use, experimental on Mac it says... I ran parts of it (the windows version then of course) under wine to access the bitmap2footprint converter which is not available in the Linux version =P

[TheProfosist]

Here is my updated DOX layout. Sorry about changing it again but I wanted it to be as close to my 7bit Phantom layout as possible. It is now nearly 100% the same and wont be changing again.

[hazeluff]

Here is my updated DOX layout. Sorry about changing it again but I wanted it to be as close to my 7bit Phantom layout as possible. It is now nearly 100% the same and wont be changing again.

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You better not be changing it! jkjk.

= D

[TheProfosist]

You better not be changing it! jkjk.

= D

thanks again you all the help with the WASD template hopefully itll come to fruition on my DOX

[hazeluff]

thanks again you all the help with the WASD template hopefully itll come to fruition on my DOX

Now worries. ^_^

Also I've suddenly become really interested in getting a DOX/Phantom. Maybe after I graduate and have the time ><. Damn you geekhack, you have taken my soul and my money.

[ishtob]

Here is my updated DOX layout. Sorry about changing it again but I wanted it to be as close to my 7bit Phantom layout as possible. It is now nearly 100% the same and wont be changing again.

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i'll get working on this soon as i figure out a better PCB program :P

[TheProfosist]

i'll get working on this soon as i figure out a better PCB program

awesome thanks. Also I just though if something when a layer is toggled you cant access the default layer i think so that means that layer 2 is going to need to have all the functions that it hasnt changed of the default layer but thats something well have to figure out when the time comes.

Also where is hazus firmware for the DOX again im trying to find it to share with the Phantom project.

[bloodygood]

awesome thanks. Also I just though if something when a layer is toggled you cant access the default layer i think so that means that layer 2 is going to need to have all the functions that it hasnt changed of the default layer but thats something well have to figure out when the time comes.

Also where is hazus firmware for the DOX again im trying to find it to share with the Phantom project.

You changed your DOX layout in order to match the phantom layout? Why not just get 2 Phantoms then. I kind of thought the point of the DOX was to be more HHKB like. I am not trying to judge or anything like that, I am just saying it seemed a little strange to me to want to completely change from a DOX style to a Phantom.

I still like my layout I posted a while back but I will link back to it once ishtob has looked into the new PCB program. Glad to see this project is starting to get some push behind it again.

[ishtob]

i think what were trying to do now is to get every option into 1 design... its kinda setting me back cuz now i need to learn a new program.... KiCAD seems promising

[ishtob]

awesome thanks. Also I just though if something when a layer is toggled you cant access the default layer i think so that means that layer 2 is going to need to have all the functions that it hasnt changed of the default layer but thats something well have to figure out when the time comes.

Also where is hazus firmware for the DOX again im trying to find it to share with the Phantom project.

All i need to do is to copy the default layer to the toggled layer, then change the keys to the ones you want "toggled" and it will appear as if the default layer is still there, even though the whole board is now swapped out.

[bpiphany]

i think what were trying to do now is to get every option into 1 design... its kinda setting me back cuz now i need to learn a new program.... KiCAD seems promising

Read through my design guide. KiCAD is pretty simple to get the hang of. Just ask me if you run into problems.

[TheProfosist]

You changed your DOX layout in order to match the phantom layout? Why not just get 2 Phantoms then. I kind of thought the point of the DOX was to be more HHKB like. I am not trying to judge or anything like that, I am just saying it seemed a little strange to me to want to completely change from a DOX style to a Phantom.

I still like my layout I posted a while back but I will link back to it once ishtob has looked into the new PCB program. Glad to see this project is starting to get some push behind it again.

I wil be using my Phantom on my desk at home and the DOX on the go at school and with my laptop I do the same kthing with my 87UB 45g and my HHKB currently.
Well yes both have the layout based on my original DOX layout so their both HHKB like. Think of my Phantom as a HHKB with a number pad, I chaned the Phantom layout to my liking as well.

My DOX Layout | My Phantom Layout

i think what were trying to do now is to get every option into 1 design... its kinda setting me back cuz now i need to learn a new program.... KiCAD seems promising

I dont know if we really need to do that. I do know that I do need 2 PCBs that will work with my layout though. Yes, I heard thats what they used for the Phantom.

All i need to do is to copy the default layer to the toggled layer, then change the keys to the ones you want "toggled" and it will appear as if the default layer is still there, even though the whole board is now swapped out.

Sounds good glad the firware is sorta figured out now I need to find out if someone can do the same for my Phantom layout.

Read through my design guide. KiCAD is pretty simple to get the hang of. Just ask me if you run into problems.

Thanks for the offer to help, we can use it!

[bpiphany]

Here is the best scan I was able to get of the poker PCB. The components move the PCB out of focus, but it might still be good enough to at least confirm mounting hole locations from.

[TheProfosist]

Thanks should help those of use that dont have a poker.

[TheProfosist]

Looks like the Phantom Groupbuy is closing up, so lets try to get moving on the DOX if possible. I think I may have a place where we can get plates in my area im looking into it now with my Phantom plate file.

[mkawa]

would like to get a trackpoint into this project. how open are designers to keeping enough room open on the board/plate for adding a nubbin via daughterboard ? doing so would also probably require some extra design time for nailing trackpoint control and fitment down. willing to drive cad/controller development for this feature if people are open to it.

this would presumably be unicomp's version of the nub device, for those who care.

[TheProfosist]

would like to get a trackpoint into this project. how open are designers to keeping enough room open on the board/plate for adding a nubbin via daughterboard ? doing so would also probably require some extra design time for nailing trackpoint control and fitment down. willing to drive cad/controller development for this feature if people are open to it.

this would presumably be unicomp's version of the nub device, for those who care.

I like the idea but i would just like to get a dox in my hands before adding anything else to it.

[ishtob]

sorry for the delay.. classes' been pretty busy, and mid terms coming up, not sure when I'll have to time to work on the layouts

[hazeluff]

I wanna see this move forward = p. I've been here a couple months and not much has gone on ; p

[TheProfosist]

sorry for the delay.. classes' been pretty busy, and mid terms coming up, not sure when I'll have to time to work on the layouts

I was hoping to have this soon as the Phantom will soon be shipping. do you think anyone else would be able to take off from where you left off in your stead?

I wanna see this move forward = p. I've been here a couple months and not much has gone on ; p

yea we were moving really fast initially but I understand classes can be a *****.. would you have any knowledge in the art of routing PCBs?

[byFd]

i am more interested in this than the phantom
since i'm recently into the poker like layout

probably gonna need Mr Profosist to assemble it.

would it be able to somehow to a wireless mod/addon to it?
since i'm thinking that it would be a good use in the living room for my ps3 or maybe xbox or whatever console

[TheProfosist]

i am more interested in this than the phantom
since i'm recently into the poker like layout

probably gonna need Mr Profosist to assemble it.

would it be able to somehow to a wireless mod/addon to it?
since i'm thinking that it would be a good use in the living room for my ps3 or maybe xbox or whatever console

that can be arranged I do have an assembly thread http://tinyurl.com/7eyjsvw and if your interested please pm me so that we can arrange something.

I would like that mod as well but i think that we are better off developing the core of this keyboard first and starting up a separate project for making wireless adapter for keyboards controlled by teensy's.

[TheProfosist]

Wow we sure did lose alot of this thread didnt we. I there any way that we could build a mini Phantom. Something exactly like the Phantoms PCB but only the main cluster of keys?

[mkawa]

i think the question remains the same: where do the chips and wiring go without going SMD (or who will volunteer to design and help coordinate production if we do?)

[TheProfosist]

i think the question remains the same: where do the chips and wiring go without going SMD (or who will volunteer to design and help coordinate production if we do?)

Well the design that isotab had had the controller under the spacebar but this would only work if a spacebar was mandatory part of the design. you could fit one on the backside of the PCB if everyone had Plastic cases and was willing to modify them. I have never done SMD before I may very well be able to do it once I learn how and have the time the main constraint would then be time which I dont have much of.