[GB] SA Symbiosis R2 - Finished

[hhkbp2]

Buy on Kono Store

Interest Check

Design Concept:
Inspired by Lisp Machine and Space-Cadet Keyboard. It's a Space-Cadet theme SA keycap set.


Details
ABS double-shot MX-mount keyset of SA profile, made by Signature Plastics.
For prices and ETA of shipping info, refer to the Kono Store link.


Kits and Renders
All kits: Album
All renders on keyboards: Album


Vendors
NA: Kono Store link
EU: Mykeyboard link
Asia: Zfrontier link
China: Zfrontier link

[Signature]

Approved

[Captain Shwah]

Woot! Already joined

[Nigolski]

THE WAIT BEGINS

[_ODIN_]

wow didn’t know that there was an EU proxy. Sorry for the dumb question.

[enrique.aliaga]

Nice! What about South America customers? Don’t neglect us, please.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mkarlsson]

Nice! What about South America customers? Don’t neglect us, please.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ey Enrique, just wondering, what layout do you guys normarly use? ISO, ANSI? Maybe it depends on the country?

[gbchk]

I really don't understand the pricing on some of these kits. Cadet is $38.99 for 8 keys? Novelties is the same price yet has more keys, more colors, custom legends, etc. Dox kit is almost $100. What's the reasoning behind this?

[vilagefool]

hahaha, $210 for CADR?!?  Does that come with a backrub and kiss on the cheek from SP? 

For as much as I wanted a set, that doesn't feel like GB pricing but more like aftermarket markup....

[enrique.aliaga]

Nice! What about South America customers? Don’t neglect us, please.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ey Enrique, just wondering, what layout do you guys normarly use? ISO, ANSI? Maybe it depends on the country?

Hey!

Spanish-speaking countries such as mine (Peru) use “Spanish-Latin America” layout, which is ISO. Most South American countries except Brazil use this layout. Brazil, being a Portuguese-speaking country, uses a Portuguese variant of ISO.

I am personally a US ANSI user, though, given my background as a programmer and Vim lover. I find using US ANSI much more natural in my field of work. This is a great advantage as a keyboard enthusiast, since I have much greater selection of keyboards and keycaps to choose from.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hedgey]

I really don't understand the pricing on some of these kits. Cadet is $38.99 for 8 keys? Novelties is the same price yet has more keys, more colors, custom legends, etc. Dox kit is almost $100. What's the reasoning behind this?

Yeah I'm really curious on this too.  $75 for Mods seems really steep, and then you start looking at the pricing for other kits and it's even worse. 

From Input Club on Reddit:

"SP's quote for each keyset was higher than usual. We're pretty sure this is due to an increased QC reject rate from the set's complex legends. I just spoke with everyone on the team about Mod pricing and pushed for a change — we're dropping them to $69.99 and editing current orders to reflect the new price. CADR will go up sometime today as well."

So basically it looks like SP just figuring out they can charge more and no one will bat an eye.  I don't buy the QC rejection rate when the keys that make it to production aren't exactly perfect to begin with...

[Hedgey]

hahaha, $210 for CADR?!?  Does that come with a backrub and kiss on the cheek from SP? 

For as much as I wanted a set, that doesn't feel like GB pricing but more like aftermarket markup....

CADR comes out to the same price as Alphas, Mods, Numpad, and Extension Kits.  So while it's expensive, it's inline with the sculpted kits.

[hhkbp2]

Nice! What about South America customers? Don’t neglect us, please.

I don't want to neglect anyone. It's just I have no idea of South America proxy, and all the current proxies are introduced by Kono Store. Do you have recommendation? Maybe I could talk to Kono Store about this.

I really don't understand the pricing on some of these kits. Cadet is $38.99 for 8 keys? Novelties is the same price yet has more keys, more colors, custom legends, etc. Dox kit is almost $100. What's the reasoning behind this?

I think there is some mistake about the price of Cadet kit. I have told your question to them and they're working on an update for it. Really sorry about the confusion.

hahaha, $210 for CADR?!?  Does that come with a backrub and kiss on the cheek from SP? 

For as much as I wanted a set, that doesn't feel like GB pricing but more like aftermarket markup....

$210 is high for one kit. But $210 is not that high for a all-in-one kit like a aftermarket thing as you said. You will know that if you recently got quotes from SP for a similar all-in-one kit, or if you join the GB of SA Nautilus, SA Song earlier this year or know their pricing, especially when you consider the different MOQs for prices.

[hokie_programmer]

Looking to put this on a 96 key. Should I go with the CADR or alphas+modifiers+numpad+extension? What's the difference?

[Lisinge]

Looking to put this on a 96 key. Should I go with the CADR or alphas+modifiers+numpad+extension? What's the difference?

CADR is uniform R3. The separate sets are fully sculpted SA 1-1-2-3-4-3.

This means that all keycaps in the CADR set will have the same height and profile footprint which gives you greater flexibility to put the keycaps wherever you want on the keyboard.

[Taques]

Was originally gonna pick up CADR, but it is actually $6 more expensive than Alphas+Mods+Extensions+Numpad so I think I'll go sculpted. That will match the sculpt of the choices kits better, too. Love having the option of blue vs grey choices kits! I think I'll have to do both.

The pricing of the Cadet kit may not be a mistake, Kono noted that they already lowered the price of the kit to $39. Will regrettably have to pass on that one if it is accurate, especially when the Vim kit has more keys that require new legends and they are only $14.

[hhkbp2]

Was originally gonna pick up CADR, but it is actually $6 more expensive than Alphas+Mods+Extensions+Numpad so I think I'll go sculpted. That will match the sculpt of the choices kits better, too. Love having the option of blue vs grey choices kits! I think I'll have to do both.

The pricing of the Cadet kit may not be a mistake, Kono noted that they already lowered the price of the kit to $39. Will regrettably have to pass on that one if it is accurate, especially when the Vim kit has more keys that require new legends and they are only $14.

I guess it's just because the sculpted profile is more popular nowadays so Kono Store just prices the sculpted kits lower at higher MOQ. So in summary CADR is more expensive than the combination as you mentioned, even when the sculpted combination has more keys.

About the price for Cadet kit, really sorry if it stops you guys from placing the orders. Kono Store is still working on the update, and I suppose to be notified when it's done. I will let you know if I have further info on this.

[cijanzen]

I don’t know if this has been brought up but the spacekeys kit also seems really highly priced. I mean if that’s what they are then it is what it is and that’s fine, but could you double check the pricing on that kit as well?

[mimalik]

I don’t know if this has been brought up but the spacekeys kit also seems really highly priced. I mean if that’s what they are then it is what it is and that’s fine, but could you double check the pricing on that kit as well?

Seems to be high compared to blue/grey choices, I want to get both blue and yellow spacebar kits, but it will be cheaper to go with b/g choices.

Please have the price checked for spacebars as well.

Also if we purchase a set/kit now and later price gets reduced later, how will it affected already placed order.

[superdoedoe]

Waiting for Zfrontier

[digid3ar]

sorry if this question looks a little silly, would be a bad idea to use blue choices kit like modifiers in a lets split build? is the profile in r1 and r4 so different?

[sevenseacat]

I'll also buy from Zfrontier when that proxy is added 👍

[Mearaz]

I will wait for Zfrontier too.

But why is the space keys $53.99? That's more expensive than the alphas!

[indiceiris]

you should get dailyclack.com to proxy for australia

[ihalatch]

you should get dailyclack.com to proxy for australia

+1

[superdoedoe]

you should get dailyclack.com to proxy for australia

+1

+2

[gunchi]

you should get dailyclack.com to proxy for australia

+1

+2

+3

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[sevenseacat]

you should get dailyclack.com to proxy for australia

+1

+2

+3

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

hey yeah I'd prefer them to Zfrontier!

I mean

+4

[adamcobabe]

Anybody interested in a 60% only kit? I'm trying to get a few sets of the F1-F12 keys and so I'll have to buy multiple mods sets and won't need the other keys. We can arrange some sort of split.

[otanishock]

Are we gonna have different price tiers for different MOQs? Or is it just one fix price regardless?

[hervuli]

In for CADR, the price is high but not unreasonable - but spacekeys is a different story. That's gotta be a mistake at $54, right? The exact same spacekeys kit in SA Oblivion was $25 without any MOQ price drops.

[FearsomeCubedWarrior]

~

[Windeh]

Would also like to know what the MOQs for each kits are, and how are they handled if not reached.

Great work on the set by the way! 

[Ensaum]

In for CADR, the price is high but not unreasonable - but spacekeys is a different story. That's gotta be a mistake at $54, right? The exact same spacekeys kit in SA Oblivion was $25 without any MOQ price drops.

Yeah, Cadet is ridiculous too. There's no way those two kits are priced correctly. I'd actually like to get cadet, but now for $40. I'm waiting to join until it gets fixed or at least confirmed that's it's just grossly overpriced.

[DocNoc]

In for CADR, the price is high but not unreasonable - but spacekeys is a different story. That's gotta be a mistake at $54, right? The exact same spacekeys kit in SA Oblivion was $25 without any MOQ price drops.

Yeah, Cadet is ridiculous too. There's no way those two kits are priced correctly. I'd actually like to get cadet, but now for $40. I'm waiting to join until it gets fixed or at least confirmed that's it's just grossly overpriced.

Yeah i'm holding off on ordering Cadet in the hopes that it is just a mistake...

I was wondering if it would be at all possible to get a render of the base kit/mods with the yellow spacebar thrown in there alongside yellow enter and escape key. Im kinda sad/surprised that there wasn't already a render that threw it in there because IMO the yellow enter/escape look great.

[mimalik]

In for CADR, the price is high but not unreasonable - but spacekeys is a different story. That's gotta be a mistake at $54, right? The exact same spacekeys kit in SA Oblivion was $25 without any MOQ price drops.

Yeah, Cadet is ridiculous too. There's no way those two kits are priced correctly. I'd actually like to get cadet, but now for $40. I'm waiting to join until it gets fixed or at least confirmed that's it's just grossly overpriced.

Yeah i'm holding off on ordering Cadet in the hopes that it is just a mistake...

I was wondering if it would be at all possible to get a render of the base kit/mods with the yellow spacebar thrown in there alongside yellow enter and escape key. Im kinda sad/surprised that there wasn't already a render that threw it in there because IMO the yellow enter/escape look great.

+1 for yellow  spacebar renders, if possible on full size kb plz.

[crykn]

Now I've never been a part of a group buy before, but the price for the modifiers and the extension seem to very high for a group buy. Is there a reason for this or am I just being unreasonable?

[mimalik]

Now I've never been a part of a group buy before, but the price for the modifiers and the extension seem to very high for a group buy. Is there a reason for this or am I just being unreasonable?

Actually alphas + mods+ numpad is very reasonable if not below some of the other SA drops lately.  If anything considering how in demand this color scheme is, I will say its cheaper than I was expecting. I purchased GMK Space Cadet and will also get SA version, its one of those iconic sets that everyone should have both of em.

Some kits prices may appear more than usual, but I understand Kono may be in process of updating the price.
Overall very affordable kit, but wont mind any further price drops.

[hhkbp2]

Talked to Kono Store about your guys' feedbacks, and got confirmation that all prices are updated to be correct now.

I will try to answer questions you raised.

Nice! What about South America customers? Don’t neglect us, please.

you should get dailyclack.com to proxy for australia

+1

+2

+3

I'm afraid we are not going to have more proxies for this GB. It requires a lot to trust and to work with a proxy for such a long time group buy. Kono Store works with current proxies for a long time and they manage to run many GBs. It's not a good practice to involve some new proxy for this GB for now.

Are we gonna have different price tiers for different MOQs? Or is it just one fix price regardless?

We will not have different price drops. It's too hard to perform price drops since we have 20+ kits and three different vendors/proxies. Once we add proxies we lose flexibility. So it works in a way that each kit has an estimated MOQ, based on popularity. Some kit has a lower price at higher MOQ, while some other kit has a higher price at lower MOQ.

I don’t know if this has been brought up but the spacekeys kit also seems really highly priced. I mean if that’s what they are then it is what it is and that’s fine, but could you double check the pricing on that kit as well?

I will wait for Zfrontier too.

But why is the space keys $53.99? That's more expensive than the alphas!

In for CADR, the price is high but not unreasonable - but spacekeys is a different story. That's gotta be a mistake at $54, right? The exact same spacekeys kit in SA Oblivion was $25 without any MOQ price drops.

Yeah, Cadet is ridiculous too. There's no way those two kits are priced correctly. I'd actually like to get cadet, but now for $40. I'm waiting to join until it gets fixed or at least confirmed that's it's just grossly overpriced.

I got confirmation from Kono Store that all current prices are correct. The Cadet kit's price is a bit high because it's priced at lower MOQ while Novelties kit's price is at higher MOQ. In the end you will see the same prices for both. The Spacekeys kit's price is high because it has 3u keys and it has lower MOQ for pricing.

It's not just that simple to count the number of keys in a kit and sum their prices to get the final kit's price. The popularity and sold number should be considered too. It's counterintuitive at the first look.

Waiting for Zfrontier

Kono Store had sent the info of this GB to Zfrontier and Mykeyboard. It will be online soon.

[cijanzen]

Thank you for the confirmation. I understand it’s definitely not always about the amount of keys offered but which keys, your clarification makes total sense!

[crykn]

Now I've never been a part of a group buy before, but the price for the modifiers and the extension seem to very high for a group buy. Is there a reason for this or am I just being unreasonable?

Actually alphas + mods+ numpad is very reasonable if not below some of the other SA drops lately.  If anything considering how in demand this color scheme is, I will say its cheaper than I was expecting. I purchased GMK Space Cadet and will also get SA version, its one of those iconic sets that everyone should have both of em.

Some kits prices may appear more than usual, but I understand Kono may be in process of updating the price.
Overall very affordable kit, but wont mind any further price drops.

Good to know. I was hoping to get enough for a 75% keyboard, unfortunately the extension kit is pretty expensive for what few keys I need.

[hhkbp2]

Looks like fix price to me.

Just to be sure: if some set won't meet MOQ, will we be able to choose other sets instead or will be refunded right away?

I'm in for alphas and considering 40s as well, but 40s are known to miss MOQ.

Would also like to know what the MOQs for each kits are, and how are they handled if not reached.

Great work on the set by the way! 

Thanks for your support! If the sold number of a kit is too far from the lowest MOQ, Kono Store will cancel the kit and do the refund. And they will make sure you have a time frame to change to your order if you like. Later Kono Store will put some statements about this on the product page.
 

[vodan]

We will not have different price drops. It's too hard to perform price drops since we have 20+ kits and three different vendors/proxies. Once we add proxies we lose flexibility. So it works in a way that each kit has an estimated MOQ, based on popularity. Some kit has a lower price at higher MOQ, while some other kit has a higher price at lower MOQ.

i'm guessing that's why the ergo kit is almost $100...
definitely getting the alphas and ortho but now may have to reconsider ergo
but thank you so much for making this happen!

[Taques]

I got confirmation from Kono Store that all current prices are correct. The Cadet kit's price is a bit high because it's priced at lower MOQ while Novelties kit's price is at higher MOQ. In the end you will see the same prices for both. The Spacekeys kit's price is high because it has 3u keys and it has lower MOQ for pricing.

It's not just that simple to count the number of keys in a kit and sum their prices to get the final kit's price. The popularity and sold number should be considered too. It's counterintuitive at the first look.

Thank you for confirming with Kono and clarification on the pricing Hope this GB is a huge success for all the work you put into it!

In for Alphas/Mods/Extension/Numpad/Blue Choices/Grey Choices for sure, potentially blue spacebars, too.

[hervuli]

In for CADR, the price is high but not unreasonable - but spacekeys is a different story. That's gotta be a mistake at $54, right? The exact same spacekeys kit in SA Oblivion was $25 without any MOQ price drops.

Yeah, Cadet is ridiculous too. There's no way those two kits are priced correctly. I'd actually like to get cadet, but now for $40. I'm waiting to join until it gets fixed or at least confirmed that's it's just grossly overpriced.

I got confirmation from Kono Store that all current prices are correct. The Cadet kit's price is a bit high because it's priced at lower MOQ while Novelties kit's price is at higher MOQ. In the end you will see the same prices for both. The Spacekeys kit's price is high because it has 3u keys and it has lower MOQ for pricing.

It's not just that simple to count the number of keys in a kit and sum their prices to get the final kit's price. The popularity and sold number should be considered too. It's counterintuitive at the first look.

Spacekeys is crazy no matter what, SA Carbon R2 spacekeys kit has the exact same keys, including 3u keys, as well as custom colors, and was $30 without any MOQ price drops. Obviously it's hard to compare this with Carbon because of the latter's popularity, but $54 is so far off base it's a joke.

OK I'll stop whining now, I'm buying into other kits regardless, but I don't see how the price of this particular kit is justifiable.

[Ensaum]

Oh well, I guess I'll have to pass on Cadet then. Rub out sounds kinda dirty anyways

[hhkbp2]

sorry if this question looks a little silly, would be a bad idea to use blue choices kit like modifiers in a lets split build? is the profile in r1 and r4 so different?

The profile from R1 to R4 varies. I guess it will be a good match to have Ortho kit for lets split keyboard since it's ortholinear. Choices kit has Roman numerals and thumbs/hands for these 1u keys, I guess you needs to have one Blue Choices kit for half of the keyboard and some legends on modifier keys would be duplicated. It would be fine as long as you feel ok about it.

[mimalik]

I am really digging this yellow color, should ve asked for 2nd mod set or alpha in same during IC phase. Someone should design a SA set with this yellow(YBP) as full mod set and a suitable alpha contrast.

[hhkbp2]

In for CADR, the price is high but not unreasonable - but spacekeys is a different story. That's gotta be a mistake at $54, right? The exact same spacekeys kit in SA Oblivion was $25 without any MOQ price drops.

Yeah, Cadet is ridiculous too. There's no way those two kits are priced correctly. I'd actually like to get cadet, but now for $40. I'm waiting to join until it gets fixed or at least confirmed that's it's just grossly overpriced.

Yeah i'm holding off on ordering Cadet in the hopes that it is just a mistake...

I was wondering if it would be at all possible to get a render of the base kit/mods with the yellow spacebar thrown in there alongside yellow enter and escape key. Im kinda sad/surprised that there wasn't already a render that threw it in there because IMO the yellow enter/escape look great.

+1 for yellow  spacebar renders, if possible on full size kb plz.

As for the yellow spacebar, sorry we don't have any render available for you now. My friends have taken many pictures of the SA keysets in the same color theme with yellow spacebars but I could not find one with 104 keyboard. And just got this:



It's SA Cain and Banana novelties.

I am really digging this yellow color, should ve asked for 2nd mod set or alpha in same during IC phase. Someone should design a SA set with this yellow(YBP) as full mod set and a suitable alpha contrast.

It's out of the topic of this thread, but I should let you know that my friend FF is planning to run a SA keyset later with mainly YBP and WCK in contract for alphas/modifiers. The keyset is called SA Banana.

[mimalik]

Thanks a ton, love that banana split, looking fwd to that set as well. But for now, going with alpha, mods, numpad, blue+yellow spacebars. Greatly appreciate your efforts to bring this live and to respond to our inputs in timely manner.