Author Topic: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard  (Read 8827 times)

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Offline Abec13

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[IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 20:23:32 »
Don't you love 40-50% boards? There's something about them. They can be practical but I don't need that justification behind everything I buy. I like them because they're small--cute. They feel nice in the handle too, when you're shuffinling your tiny board around all the newfound deskroom from downsizing.

They make good shelf object too. Got a small shelf? Man, are these things perfect for it when they're not in use and still enough room for that 7th Pop! figure.


Here, today, I am interest checking for one of those. It goes by the name of 45-ATS.
Let's get into that name.


Currently, I run a JD45. It's nice. Really nice:

Clacky ✓
Smol ✓
Shiny ✓
Cute ✓
Compatible with most 40s kits ✓
Has the one key between L and Enter to put quotes on ✓
question mark is in the right spot (put it on tap for right shift)✓

On the other hand here's what's missing:

Arrow keys ◊
Dynamic style◊
Top Mount ◊

The minivan is one of the few keyboards that went as far as to fit arrow keys onto such a small layout but at a cost. With the arrow key layout the question mark must be moved over or to another layout. This makes it hard to transfer that muscle memory over to something like a work keyboard, or a laptop keyboard. The nice thing about 45s is that most all punctuation can be on the top layer.

As for "dynamic style," think HHKB, think Compact 1800. Technically, the full 60% board and 96key style boards, respectively, are more practical than their counterpart. The full 60 fills in space with more keys, and the 96 key does the same thing while occupying less space. So then why resort to the alternatives? Plain and simple: they look better. The silhouette of a HHKB and 1800 layout are very attractive (to me) as opposed to the alternative. Like the layout or not, the HHKB is very attractive so the reason for adding the arrows and "macro keys" to this board is not only for the sake of functionality. It's also in the name of fashion.

And lastly, of course, we all love top mount. I feel I don't really need to explain that point.

So wrapping together some of my favorite features of my boards, I bring you the 45-"And Then Some"

216945-0216947-1
216951-2216949-3

Currently Supported Layouts:

217269-4

Where it's at in the design process?
As of 4/25 I am done with the semester and will have more time to work on this. I have started the PCB design which, once completed, will finalize the case design.

What's been decided?

  • There will likely be no full brass/poly version of this board unless it somehow becomes super popular.

  • There will be no RGB on this board. We're keeping it clean.

  • I know I want a brass plate option, multiple finishes.

  • 6 Degree typing angle.

  • Top Mount, 3-piece.

  • QMK-- I can't imagine making a keyboard for this hobby and in this size that isn't QMK. Don't worry friends. :)

What's under consideration still?

  • Split space sizing options--thinking something closer to the minivan.
    The proportions of the 225-275 layout can be a little unsightly and smaller space bars will be nicer for some that like to run no stabilizers.

  • Brass weight--but I would prefer for this to be something that is more affordable.

  • Matching 4x4 macropad to buy when this drops or save it for later. It will be called the ATSM. I will let you guess what that means.

  • Hotswap PCB: with nothing but a few bottom row layout options this is under consideration for offering a hotswap PCB option.

  • Additional plate material options.

  • Jazzing up the bottom case a little more.

  • Ortho PCB and Plate option: I was recently approached with the idea of offering an ortho option for the board as it would occupy the same footprint.
    This would involve offering a whole other PCB or meshing it similarly to how the mechmini did as well as offering an additional plate.
    218003-5
    218626-6

  • LED indicator holes between the alphas and the 3-button cluster or just keeping it clean.

    216955-7
    Just an idea I mocked up quickly to show the concept




What colors did you have in mind?

The classic Silver-Black-Grey to keep it simple for anyone looking for neutral colors.
In addition to that I want at least one less common color (namely navy blue, but other options will be on vote).
Now this doesn't mean it will be limited to one extra color; being new to group buys I'm not sure of the ups and downs that come from requesting so many colors for a buy of such small quantity. I will do my best!

Google Form IC:
https://forms.gle/xnLMZ8Kjmp8M46Mz7


Thanks for reading this far. Huge thanks to The Lazy Designers, Funderburker, Oldcat, and Holtenc for guiding me and answering my pestering questions!

Also shout out to nat for letting me bother her with design options this whole time.





« Last Edit: Sat, 04 May 2019, 23:42:20 by Abec13 »
KBD19X | JD45

Offline Abec13

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 20:24:12 »
Reserve
KBD19X | JD45

Offline MikeTheTiger

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 20:31:10 »
Oh yeah!!
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Offline fcoury

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 20:32:54 »
I want it right now. Most exciting project I've seen in a while!

Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 20:36:31 »
I like the idea of the indicator lights in between, really helps set a personality for the board, especially with basic colors. IE green LEDs to go with terminal, or a nice 3 color with beige. Plus, what's not to love about artisan slots on a board :raughs:

Offline InvidiousIgnoramus

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 20:37:54 »
Honestly, I'd prefer it had one more column. having a single column on a layer annoys me more than being forced to have several like with typical ~40%
Still, very nice!
I long for the day when I find a beamspring. (At a not insane price)

Offline Macmutant

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 20:43:34 »
I love the layout. Offer a hot swap option and Via Configurator support, and I'm good to go. Navy blue would be a great color option, and I know you're a fan of the nice dark red, as I am. Nice job on the preliminary design, sir!

Online Minterly

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 20:45:11 »
Brass Brass Brass Brass!

Offline PaultheSloth

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 20:45:36 »
Hit me up  :) :)
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Online badchad

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 20:47:58 »
Digging it! I might like this more than the TMO 50
BAD

Offline tex_live_utility

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 20:48:25 »
Great design!

One comment, it looks like your plate mounting positions will result in a very rigid plate feel, which could defeat the purpose of top mount unless you go with brass (which is super rigid anyway) or something like PC or PBT (which is flexy no matter how you mount it).

I'm specifically looking at the mounting tab directly between the spacebar switch cutouts, and the two tabs very close together in the bottom right corner, although those are probably OK because they're under the arrow keys.

The way I see it, a plate can flex in two principal directions: "hotdog" (the front and back fold up to meet each other) and "hamburger" (the left and right fold up to meet each other). Since plates are generally mounted on the front and back, you generally don't have any "hamburger" flex, and any that arises is probably undesirable edge flex, unless the plate is a really flexible material like polycarbonate. So what you have left is "hotdog" flex, which in theory should be pretty consistent across the row, especially on the home row. My fear is that adding tabs on the sides of the plate (instead of just front/back) will impede this "hotdog" flex and defeat the purpose of top-mounting. OIf course, any flex will be less accentuated in a 40% than in a bigger keyboard (and again it probably doesn't matter at all with brass).

On the flipside, having mounting tabs on the edge could reduce resonant metallic sounds from the plate by preventing it from vibrating as freely.

Obviously this is quite a bit of speculation, but IMO it's worth thinking about. Hopefully there will be a prototype made (maybe 3d printed + cheap alu plate?) so this can be refined before the GB.

Edit: w/ respect to the options in IC poll, I would much, much prefer a "budget" all-aluminum, no-weight design. If the Brutal60 can be $200, this can be $150 +extra for brass plate and +extra for fancy case material like polycarbonate or all-brass. I really don't like the value of being premium for premium's sake. If the brass weight really adds something to the design, then include it. If not, then it's just as much of an afterthought as some kind of half-baked gasket mount. FR4 is also a very nice cheap plate option; you can still fancy it up by putting (lead-free) plating around the switch cutouts like in the No1.

Also a half-plate option could be very interesting here.
« Last Edit: Tue, 09 April 2019, 20:56:25 by tex_live_utility »

Offline byoliven

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 20:49:50 »
Dark Purple or White in color plz

Online William_S_Jones

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 20:55:00 »
Reserved


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Offline holtenc

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 21:00:52 »
This is awesome.

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Offline PyroL

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 21:02:24 »
😍😍😍

Offline trabbit

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 21:03:23 »
Wow, this is a well designed 45% keeb.

Offline lordgiblite

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 21:16:07 »
This is nearly identical to a project I've been procrastinating on since January  :)) :))

This is super clean. I love it!



Offline 6FeaT

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 21:20:05 »
Wow I really REALLY like this!

Completed the IC form, but I would love a PC (or other plastic) plate option. Maybe even a brass or alu half plate if no plastic

Offline UsualSuspectXXX

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 21:25:17 »
As long as it supports qmk, I'm in

Offline 6FeaT

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 21:34:11 »

Offline donut_sauce

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 21:44:34 »

Online the_high_5

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 22:10:01 »
This is a super clean design with a neat layout. Colour me interested!

Offline factoryofidols

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 09 April 2019, 23:16:26 »
I think I would like to see it with one more column but overall I love it. I don't care about PC or Brass versions at all, but a Brass weight would be cool.

LED indicator lights above the arrow keys would be sweet as well.

Looking forward to see how this progresses.

Offline jortzii

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 10 April 2019, 00:24:20 »
So glad to see this making it to the IC stage!

Indicator lights would be awesome, in terms of the mounting points, that might be something lit to look into.

Iím not a big fan of the split space being asymmetric, I think a 2.25u and 2.75u side by side looks strange. Iím not sure how much it goes against the design philosophy or how it will effect the PCB layout, but what about making the split space be 2x 2u keys? Add an additional 1u to the right side, and then it gets some nice balance (imo). Alternatively, make it 2x 2.25u keys for split, and have 3x 1.25 on either side.

Offline ItsAllen

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 10 April 2019, 00:29:16 »
Loving all of this. Could care less about a brass weight. Brass plate would be nice. LEDs are a super nice touch. PC would be nice since itís afforable, at least I think so.

Offline tex_live_utility

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 10 April 2019, 00:30:09 »
One more "feature request" from me -- maybe offer 2.75/2.25 split space in addition to 2.25/2.75. That will make the spacebar split centered under B between F and J.

Offline funderburker

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 10 April 2019, 01:11:09 »
Great job man, renders are damn fine. Rooting for this! :thumb:

Digging it! I might like this more than the TMO 50

Banned from R2 when that happens. :p You're now a "badbadchad" in my book.
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Offline Jonathan0903

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 10 April 2019, 04:37:57 »
Looks great! I'd be in for the macropad option as well, since design suites like Maya and Illustrator eat macros for breakfast <3


Offline Bleddyn

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 10 April 2019, 06:19:21 »
Glad to see more small projects in the works. Will be keeping an eye on this.

Offline Vigrith

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 10 April 2019, 08:28:06 »
Aesthetically this looks incredible.

Offline vicissitude

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 10 April 2019, 08:49:23 »
Nice design.  :thumb:
I like it.

Offline BserLarry

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 10 April 2019, 10:22:53 »
Please include split space Hot swap please! Saves a lot of work from soldering =P

Online badchad

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 10 April 2019, 11:52:27 »
Great job man, renders are damn fine. Rooting for this! :thumb:

Digging it! I might like this more than the TMO 50

Banned from R2 when that happens. :p You're now a "badbadchad" in my book.


You know, I just realized you could get a polycarb bottom TMO and now I'm on The Hunt for one.


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BAD

Offline Xynerorias

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 10 April 2019, 12:26:01 »
I'm a fan of 1800 and 40s so this is kinda the dream board for me. Reminds me of TMO50. All in no matter the price! :thumb:

Online nasp

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 10 April 2019, 13:54:59 »
You got me hooked just reading through description alone. Then I saw the layout, damn!!!  :thumb:

Online omgkittiesyay

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 10 April 2019, 16:25:31 »
Love the proposed layout and really hope the matching numpad makes it.

Offline thornkin

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #36 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 01:40:12 »
I like it.  I thought the minivan might be my only 40%, but this could change my mind.

What happened to the question mark though?

The "Layout options" layout is very different, at least in terms of keys, than the keyboards you show.  For example, the key to the right of L changes.

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Online Astrasa

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #37 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 01:53:11 »
This looks really promising and love the addition for arrow keys on a 40, just what I need! Hoping poly gets enough movement that it will be considered for an option
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Offline rope

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 20:30:40 »
looks veryyy nice, please gib

Offline Abec13

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 21:20:40 »
I like it.  I thought the minivan might be my only 40%, but this could change my mind.

What happened to the question mark though?

The "Layout options" layout is very different, at least in terms of keys, than the keyboards you show.  For example, the key to the right of L changes.

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Well really, it will be QMK, every key can be whatever you want it to be when you program it. It seems many people like colons where they belong. i, on the other hand, like quotations there because it's used more frequently.
KBD19X | JD45

Online nasp

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #40 on: Thu, 11 April 2019, 21:38:40 »

Well really, it will be QMK, every key can be whatever you want it to be when you program it. It seems many people like colons where they belong. i, on the other hand, like quotations there because it's used more frequently.

217084-0

Offline adotm

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #41 on: Fri, 12 April 2019, 12:11:48 »
Any chance of doing a wireless Bluetooth version? I'd love this for my HTPC!

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Offline TuCZnak

  • Posts: 136
Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #42 on: Sat, 13 April 2019, 09:25:50 »
One more column wouldn't really hurt that much, and it saves tons of hassle with designing layers. Other than that not a fan of premium addons for premium's sake and overkill pricing, so KISS and I'm in ;-)
MOQ means Minimum Order Quantity. You either reach it or you don't, there's no "pushing for higher MOQ", just pushing for more orders.

Offline Abec13

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #43 on: Sun, 14 April 2019, 16:49:39 »
One more column wouldn't really hurt that much, and it saves tons of hassle with designing layers. Other than that not a fan of premium addons for premium's sake and overkill pricing, so KISS and I'm in ;-)

In my opinion I think that two columns to the right is branching too close to the mini 1800 that you should see and IC for here from a friend of the 40s discord. I think with layering 1 row is the correct choice for both aesthetic and practical purposes.

Any chance of doing a wireless Bluetooth version? I'd love this for my HTPC!

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I don't think so. I'll be designing the PCB and I just don't think I'm at that level yet. This is, after all, my first board project. I can't say it won't happen for sure but I would not place any bets on it.
KBD19X | JD45

Offline TuCZnak

  • Posts: 136
Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #44 on: Mon, 15 April 2019, 00:27:42 »
One more column wouldn't really hurt that much, and it saves tons of hassle with designing layers. Other than that not a fan of premium addons for premium's sake and overkill pricing, so KISS and I'm in ;-)

In my opinion I think that two columns to the right is branching too close to the mini 1800 that you should see and IC for here from a friend of the 40s discord. I think with layering 1 row is the correct choice for both aesthetic and practical purposes.

Oh, you misunderstood. I didn't mean making the 3-key block on the right 6-key, I meant adding one column to the alpha block. That way, you don't have to omit anything while mapping basic characters...
MOQ means Minimum Order Quantity. You either reach it or you don't, there's no "pushing for higher MOQ", just pushing for more orders.

Offline Abec13

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #45 on: Mon, 15 April 2019, 08:54:38 »
One more column wouldn't really hurt that much, and it saves tons of hassle with designing layers. Other than that not a fan of premium addons for premium's sake and overkill pricing, so KISS and I'm in ;-)

In my opinion I think that two columns to the right is branching too close to the mini 1800 that you should see and IC for here from a friend of the 40s discord. I think with layering 1 row is the correct choice for both aesthetic and practical purposes.

Oh, you misunderstood. I didn't mean making the 3-key block on the right 6-key, I meant adding one column to the alpha block. That way, you don't have to omit anything while mapping basic characters...

I understand what you're saying, now.

I considered this when I was mapping this together. I think that moving into that area, that's too many keys. With DSA (or any uniform profile) allowing any key placement I think 45s go really far considering how much some people get done with 40s. A 50, I think, is too oblong. Width wise, the TMO50 occupies as much space as a THE50 not accounting for the bezel yet incorporates almost an entire numberpad because the THE50 uses a 40-base.

Just my take on it.  :D

Additional note: this 45-style makes it so that there are just enough keys between tab and enter for 0, 1-9 too. Also intentional.
« Last Edit: Mon, 15 April 2019, 08:58:11 by Abec13 »
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Offline amaddo

  • Posts: 42
Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #46 on: Mon, 15 April 2019, 09:28:21 »
This keyboard is very beautiful.
I am fascinated by this keyboard now.
It is also wonderful to be compatible with QMK, I already imagine the key map in my head!!!
I think good for LED indicators.

Offline Kuervo

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #47 on: Fri, 19 April 2019, 15:12:11 »
I love this, I'd be in if it got to the GB stage

Online nasp

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #48 on: Sun, 28 April 2019, 00:36:26 »
Love the idea of the ortholinear layout! If you add that as an option I'll def. be in  :thumb:

Offline D0oms_Ninth_Cat

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Re: [IC] 45-ATS Keyboard
« Reply #49 on: Mon, 29 April 2019, 15:48:19 »
Love the idea of the ortholinear layout! If you add that as an option I'll def. be in  :thumb:
+1 make the ortho PCB happen!