Author Topic: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations  (Read 8532 times)

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Offline abrahamstechnology

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[IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« on: Fri, 01 November 2019, 16:56:10 »
NO MX STEMS STOP ASKING
I will do an Orange recreation down the road if the blues work out!
I am running this interest check to see how much demand there would be for new Alps SKCM Blue re-creation switches. These switches would be copied as accurately as possible from original Blue Alps parts including the switchplate and special click leaf. I have talked with several switch manufacturers that would be willing to undertake the project, however, it will be an expensive project, so I need to see how much demand there would be before I can continue.

https://forms.gle/yTruRbAyMXFCQywB9
« Last Edit: Sun, 03 November 2019, 21:19:20 by abrahamstechnology »

Offline Kevadu

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 01 November 2019, 17:01:11 »
If you can pull it off then that sounds amazing.  But that's going to be a pretty challenging project...


Offline senter

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 01 November 2019, 17:03:07 »
I'm interested.

Offline Gert Fischer

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 01 November 2019, 17:20:19 »
I think a lot of people would be interested, biggest problem is you don't know yet how these switches will turn out. Might be perfect or might be like Mathias.

Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 01 November 2019, 17:21:45 »
Would you be remaking the slider or just doing the other parts of the switch (bottom and top housings, click leaf and switch plate)?

Offline Nigolski

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 01 November 2019, 17:24:43 »
nice
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Offline Mcnos

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 01 November 2019, 17:39:08 »
Are you limited to only Blue Alps?

Also yes, interested.

Offline catamscott

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 01 November 2019, 17:41:18 »
if the switches can be copied well enough then i think the amount of interest in them will be incredible. i personally am all for this idea

Offline Rayndalf

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 01 November 2019, 17:49:38 »
Great idea. A version with MX style stems would be really neat too. 2020 will be the year of the Alps

Offline ab042896

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 01 November 2019, 17:55:19 »
I have never bothered with Alps due to the headache of sourcing, this looks interesting to those who have never hopped on the Alps train! Good luck  :D

Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 01 November 2019, 17:56:07 »
Great idea. A version with MX style stems would be really neat too. 2020 will be the year of the Alps

Having developed just that myself last year I don't see it being an option here given mx caps crush click leafs. Especially if the goal is to exactly replicate the sound and feel.

Edit: Just to correct how people read this, click leafs get crushed if you don't have a protector on the slider like I had on the nexus sliders, they do not crush over time. The downside to the protectors is they reduce the travel of the click leaves so the sound isn't exactly the same. So for perfect sound, you would need to remove the protector which would then cause them to crush the leaves, that was what I was meaning, not that they crush over time like some interpreted.
« Last Edit: Sat, 02 November 2019, 11:47:36 by BlindAssassin111 »

Online fabryrock

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 01 November 2019, 17:57:09 »
is the project trying to make the switches compatible with mx style keycaps?

Offline abrahamstechnology

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 01 November 2019, 19:18:18 »
To all those asking, they won't have Cherry stems, they don't work. with the geometries of the Alps style switches.

I want to do a near-perfect drop-in replica of SKCMAG. Also it is legal since the patent expired.

Offline icecake

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 01 November 2019, 19:51:20 »
let's make this happen hope to get alps switches!!!

Offline Fnzzy

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 01 November 2019, 19:52:46 »
Not interested in clicky switches but if Blue makes a comeback others could, too. I'll try to support this.
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Offline Loligagger

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 01 November 2019, 20:05:34 »
If an exact replica can really be done then I'm interested.

Offline J3ff_Leopard

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 01 November 2019, 20:09:00 »
This is a monumental undertaking. Filled out the form. Very interested in other switch options as well, specifically tactiles.
I just realized how to put stuff here.

Offline poodude

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 01 November 2019, 20:23:42 »
I've thought about doing this to. Wouldn't it be much cheaper to just replicate the internals? There are tons of cheap white alps boards etc to pull housings from.

Offline adxlk

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 01 November 2019, 21:09:46 »
Wouldn't it be better to ask for feedback on what Alps switch rather than just blue. I think it will probably help you get more interests since I don't think everyone is going to use it
I don't know if that makes sense but basically, it would be nice to find a fan favorite then start off that

Offline 0Name

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 02 November 2019, 00:10:08 »
SKCM Blue Alps with MX stem -> Instant endgame.

Offline moh18one

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 02 November 2019, 09:31:20 »
Why not a copy of the SMK Cherry mount but with different caracteristics?

https://deskthority.net/wiki/SMK_Cherry_MX_mount

I don't see any reason to use alps stem when most keysets are made for cherry mx switches..
« Last Edit: Sat, 02 November 2019, 09:35:45 by moh18one »

Offline gbchk

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 02 November 2019, 11:52:06 »
Super interested, especially if this can be expanded to other Alps variants.

Offline badboy731

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 02 November 2019, 14:16:18 »
Been diving more into alps and this looks very promising. Best of luck

Offline TheAutoManCan

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 02 November 2019, 16:35:41 »
Why not a copy of the SMK Cherry mount but with different caracteristics?

https://deskthority.net/wiki/SMK_Cherry_MX_mount

I don't see any reason to use alps stem when most keysets are made for cherry mx switches..
Some people value typing feel over keycap aesthetics. Changing the stem design to MX may very well affect the overall feel of the switch and would ruin the entire point of recreating SKCM Blues.

Offline moh18one

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 02 November 2019, 22:54:37 »
Why not a copy of the SMK Cherry mount but with different caracteristics?

https://deskthority.net/wiki/SMK_Cherry_MX_mount

I don't see any reason to use alps stem when most keysets are made for cherry mx switches..
Some people value typing feel over keycap aesthetics. Changing the stem design to MX may very well affect the overall feel of the switch and would ruin the entire point of recreating SKCM Blues.

That's why SMK cherry mount exists,right? plus those switches are loved by people who tried them. Patents have expired for them too so OP could recreate a switches based on their design. A switch shouldn't be created just for those who love ALPS but newbies in this hobby should be considered here as well.

Offline gbchk

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 02 November 2019, 23:04:06 »
Why not a copy of the SMK Cherry mount but with different caracteristics?

https://deskthority.net/wiki/SMK_Cherry_MX_mount

I don't see any reason to use alps stem when most keysets are made for cherry mx switches..
Some people value typing feel over keycap aesthetics. Changing the stem design to MX may very well affect the overall feel of the switch and would ruin the entire point of recreating SKCM Blues.

That's why SMK cherry mount exists,right? plus those switches are loved by people who tried them. Patents have expired for them too so OP could recreate a switches based on their design. A switch shouldn't be created just for those who love ALPS but newbies in this hobby should be considered here as well.

Lol what? SMK 2nd gen are a very far cry from blue Alps in terms of sound, feel, and construction. You can also readily buy them NOS, so I don't understand why you would expect OP to recreate them for some reason. You clearly value keycap options over switch feel, which is cool, but this isn't about that.

Offline Mcnos

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 02 November 2019, 23:25:44 »
Why not a copy of the SMK Cherry mount but with different caracteristics?

https://deskthority.net/wiki/SMK_Cherry_MX_mount

I don't see any reason to use alps stem when most keysets are made for cherry mx switches..
Some people value typing feel over keycap aesthetics. Changing the stem design to MX may very well affect the overall feel of the switch and would ruin the entire point of recreating SKCM Blues.

That's why SMK cherry mount exists,right? plus those switches are loved by people who tried them. Patents have expired for them too so OP could recreate a switches based on their design. A switch shouldn't be created just for those who love ALPS but newbies in this hobby should be considered here as well.

Lol what? SMK 2nd gen are a very far cry from blue Alps in terms of sound, feel, and construction. You can also readily buy them NOS, so I don't understand why you would expect OP to recreate them for some reason. You clearly value keycap options over switch feel, which is cool, but this isn't about that.

Are you referring to buying SMK switches NOS or Blue Alps NOS?

Hopefully not the latter, you're looking at 200+ for a set of them.

Offline gbchk

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #27 on: Sat, 02 November 2019, 23:46:47 »
SMK of course. You can get them on Taobao or Aliexpress for less than 50 cents a piece.

Offline mode

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 03 November 2019, 08:24:36 »
Yup, I'd buy a few hundred switches.

I'd also be even more interested in an SKCM orange repro.

I'd be fine with ALPS mount, it'd encourage more keycap group buys to happen. If there's enough interest maybe work with the nexus slider guy as an optional configuration. The sliders in modified alps top housings worked well, just it's a one-way mod.

Just be utterly uncompromising on recreating the switches as faithfully as possible.

Offline Vigrith

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #29 on: Sun, 03 November 2019, 09:07:02 »
Good luck. But yes.

Offline loud_asian

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 03 November 2019, 13:28:49 »
I filled out the form, but like others have said I'd love to see reproductions of tactile switches.

Offline RaySasQuach

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 03 November 2019, 13:31:42 »
I would definitely would love to see an Amber repro and a Brown repro as well since those ARE my favorite Alps switches. But I'd be stoked for blues as well!


Offline jrs

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 03 November 2019, 16:08:35 »
I'd be the most interested in a reproduction of brown alps.

Offline ilikerustoo

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 03 November 2019, 16:53:02 »
I'm in

Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #34 on: Sun, 03 November 2019, 19:30:33 »
I'd be the most interested in a reproduction of brown alps.

The issue with this is you actually have to do a separate top housing for brown alps as they are different from every other pine alps switch top housing...supporting both on the same top housing leads to clicky switch issues (what lead to the double click for the nexus v1 housings).

Offline jagger27

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 04 November 2019, 02:26:35 »
Submitted. Makes me want to make a QMK AEK replacement PCB.

Offline ThereminGoat

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #36 on: Mon, 04 November 2019, 08:03:13 »
See, my biggest question and concern with this is who is doing the manufacturing? While, as a collector, I can always appreciate new switches and clones of stuff, it isn't much of an argument to point out the Hua-Jie AKCN2 and AKDN2's that were run in a GB by you quite awhile were you were of horrendous quality.

I'd love to step up and be impressed, and if these go live I'll certainly pick up a few to pique my interest, but I'd have serious misgivings if Hua-Jie is the manufacturer of these.

Offline abrahamstechnology

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #37 on: Mon, 04 November 2019, 11:33:24 »
See, my biggest question and concern with this is who is doing the manufacturing? While, as a collector, I can always appreciate new switches and clones of stuff, it isn't much of an argument to point out the Hua-Jie AKCN2 and AKDN2's that were run in a GB by you quite awhile were you were of horrendous quality.

I'd love to step up and be impressed, and if these go live I'll certainly pick up a few to pique my interest, but I'd have serious misgivings if Hua-Jie is the manufacturer of these.

Don't know why people hated those so much but I'm using a different manufacturer along with completely new tooling built from the ground up.

Offline ThereminGoat

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #38 on: Mon, 04 November 2019, 13:31:57 »
See, my biggest question and concern with this is who is doing the manufacturing? While, as a collector, I can always appreciate new switches and clones of stuff, it isn't much of an argument to point out the Hua-Jie AKCN2 and AKDN2's that were run in a GB by you quite awhile were you were of horrendous quality.

I'd love to step up and be impressed, and if these go live I'll certainly pick up a few to pique my interest, but I'd have serious misgivings if Hua-Jie is the manufacturer of these.

Don't know why people hated those so much but I'm using a different manufacturer along with completely new tooling built from the ground up.

The long and short of it is that they wobble. And I don't mean like standard MX wobble, I mean Earthquake proofed building swaying on a 6 on the Richter scale.

All hyperbolics aside, I urge you to look at the photo on telcontar.net, where Daniel Beardsmore keeps his collection - https://telcontar.net/KBK/SwitchCollection/switch.php?id=43.

You can physically see the massive gap between the top housing and the stem. It's one thing if tolerances may be slightly off, but I can see the horrid tolerances between the top housing and the stem from a picture online. While many people didn't pick these up, and the only people I am aware who have ones are switch collectors, it is pretty hard to like when you can see from a photograph the poor quality of the build.
« Last Edit: Mon, 04 November 2019, 13:39:27 by ThereminGoat »

Offline gbchk

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #39 on: Sun, 24 November 2019, 11:49:48 »
Any updates on the project?

Offline macclack

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #40 on: Mon, 25 November 2019, 22:52:58 »
Ill be following this closely

Offline nickaster1

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #41 on: Wed, 04 December 2019, 01:01:19 »
How about the lube situation? Apart from the OG housing, I don't think no one ever figured out the OG lube

Offline mode

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #42 on: Thu, 05 December 2019, 04:19:10 »
Submitted. Makes me want to make a QMK AEK replacement PCB.

I'd be in for this especially if it had ISO support and fit the AEKI, I prefer that chassis to AEKII. I'd be happy to do the CAD for the plate too.

Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #43 on: Sun, 08 December 2019, 10:33:21 »
OMG I NEED THIS SOOOO BADLYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!

Offline SpringWind

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #44 on: Wed, 11 December 2019, 09:52:53 »
I hope this project will success.
I'm interested in Alps switches but don't want restoring or scrapping vintage keyboards.
If we can buy stable Blue Alps at a down-to-earth price without such process, it's so great!

Offline mode

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #45 on: Sun, 22 December 2019, 04:16:04 »
As much as I want the full expression of this project, have you considered doing part of it for an initial test run?

Recreated switch top housings and sliders would rejuvenate worn switches, alps switches tend to wear out and feel **** before the switch plate dies and I certainly have a lot of worn blues and oranges which would benefit a lot from new top housings and sliders.

This is an ambitious project and I'd hate for the first attempt at doing the whole switch to be not quite right, and then there never be an improved round 2.

Offline macclack

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #46 on: Mon, 06 January 2020, 12:22:23 »
I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile to reach out the factory that produces Matias' switches and see if they'd be willing to take something like this on.

Offline Praetoricus

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #47 on: Mon, 06 January 2020, 19:17:21 »
It's been apparently discussed that Matias is not willing to do OG Alps switches, they were given many chances. So regarding the OP here, did he disappear already? Did we hear back any updates regarding ALPS Recreation since November? I hope this project didnt end this soon.

Offline 3ambutter

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #48 on: Mon, 06 January 2020, 19:20:19 »
Interested

Offline 5alt5haker

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #49 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 08:17:53 »
Very interested. Would be my first alps switch

Offline macclack

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #50 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 15:28:10 »
Interested

Point of clarification:
Does Matias produce the switches themselves (vertical) or do they have a supplier? In the case that they source their switches from a factory maybe it would be possible to go factory-direct and see if the factory would be willing to attempt complicated Alps.

Offline hiddensong

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #51 on: Sat, 18 January 2020, 20:07:57 »
Curious how the IC is going after 2-3 months. Hopefully a gazillion responses in the 500+ at $2 each pool so this gets done! Lolz. Seriously though....hows it going?

Offline TheAutoManCan

  • Posts: 60
Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #52 on: Sat, 18 January 2020, 23:38:16 »
Interested

Point of clarification:
Does Matias produce the switches themselves (vertical) or do they have a supplier? In the case that they source their switches from a factory maybe it would be possible to go factory-direct and see if the factory would be willing to attempt complicated Alps.
Gaote provides final assembly of Matias switches.

Offline TurboTombo

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #53 on: Mon, 27 January 2020, 06:28:31 »
I would gladly get my hands on these!!

Offline Cods

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #54 on: Fri, 07 February 2020, 15:57:33 »
Interested! Filled out the form. Cheers.
Model M Industrial, SSK, Unicomp 104, Code TKL MX Green, FC660M MX Green + Clear + White + Grey, FC660C Topre 45g, MagicForce 68 USB and Bluetooth, Whitefox... wait, I think I need an intervention.
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Offline Maledicted

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #55 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 12:25:26 »
If you pull this off, it could change the direction of every aspect of the enthusiast keyboard market entirely, overnight. People make a big deal out of MX-compatible stems, but if there were newly-manufactured complicated Alps clones of the same quality as the originals, Cherry MX stems themselves could go extinct within a decade. Alps caps would take over the market, so would PCB designs.

If you build it, they will come.

I finally signed up, just now. Good luck to you, and godspeed.

Offline Zeelobby

  • Posts: 424
Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #56 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 12:33:28 »
Lol. Let's be honest here. If this works out, there will most likely end up just being two camps of fans. Just like linear vs tactile or wkl vs hhkb vs STD or iso vs ansi

Offline Maledicted

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #57 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 13:13:09 »
Lol. Let's be honest here. If this works out, there will most likely end up just being two camps of fans. Just like linear vs tactile or wkl vs hhkb vs STD or iso vs ansi

Alps vs ... what? Topre? Maybe? It would be a small subsection. Is there anything else that has a somewhat significant following that offers something unique that Alps switches can't do better?

Offline 5alt5haker

  • Posts: 3
Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #58 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 13:21:55 »
If you pull this off, it could change the direction of every aspect of the enthusiast keyboard market entirely, overnight. People make a big deal out of MX-compatible stems, but if there were newly-manufactured complicated Alps clones of the same quality as the originals, Cherry MX stems themselves could go extinct within a decade. Alps caps would take over the market, so would PCB designs.

If you build it, they will come.

I finally signed up, just now. Good luck to you, and godspeed.
even though I believe that this would be a game changer, I still think that people would gravitate towards mx switches because it would be too much of a hassle to switch to a new type of switch

Offline Zeelobby

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #59 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 13:26:39 »
Lol. Let's be honest here. If this works out, there will most likely end up just being two camps of fans. Just like linear vs tactile or wkl vs hhkb vs STD or iso vs ansi

Alps vs ... what? Topre? Maybe? It would be a small subsection. Is there anything else that has a somewhat significant following that offers something unique that Alps switches can't do better?
I mean it's all subjective man. Lol. Sure I've used some alps switches that felt amazing, but I've really likes some MX switches too. I've also used some similarly colored Alps switches that felt like garbage. Then there's price, availability, variety, quality of clones, what would be legacy mx cap sets, etc. A complicated Alps switch is going to be more expensive for a long time, especially with the complexity of the switch. Personally I don't enjoy topre switches, but just because I don't, I don't assume everyone else doesn't, and that they won't exist in 10 years.
« Last Edit: Wed, 12 February 2020, 13:29:37 by Zeelobby »

Offline Maledicted

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #60 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 14:00:35 »
even though I believe that this would be a game changer, I still think that people would gravitate towards mx switches because it would be too much of a hassle to switch to a new type of switch

I have desoldered every switch, and swapped them to box thick clicks, on 5 keyboards now, and those are just my modern stand-in for Alps SKCM. They'll just have to feel them to believe.

I mean it's all subjective man. Lol. Sure I've used some alps switches that felt amazing, but I've really likes some MX switches too. I've also used some similarly colored Alps switches that felt like garbage. Then there's price, availability, variety, quality of clones, what would be legacy mx cap sets, etc. A complicated Alps switch is going to be more expensive for a long time, especially with the complexity of the switch. Personally I don't enjoy topre switches, but just because I don't, I don't assume everyone else doesn't, and that they won't exist in 10 years.

I've never tried Topre, and I don't particularly care to, though I would love to if a board happened to be around to feel. I actually was suggesting Topre as one of the switches that would maybe survive the new switch order, since Topre is a whole different animal entirely. It doesn't really compete with Cherry MX, and compatibles, anyway. I love box jades and navies. I would still drop them like a bad habit for new production SKCM blues. I think that would be the case for most people who like clicky switches, and
I don't think it would take much to win over the linear and tactile crowd either once those who haven't tried Alps don't have to try to scavenge recycling facilities and weed through Ebay listings of boards that look like they were dredged out of a lake with descriptions like, "Rare, great condition. Clickety clack keyboard." just to experience them.

They do get scratchy too easily compared to the usual MX or clone, due to dust/dirt. If the board doesn't look fairly clean, many of the switches may already need an overhaul, if they're not already too far gone. We're enthusiasts though. If you take care of them, they take care of you.
« Last Edit: Wed, 12 February 2020, 14:07:03 by Maledicted »

Offline Zeelobby

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #61 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 15:34:02 »
I mean I get it. But there's no way MX switches would just disappear. Look how many brands and types of products are supported that are just objectively inferior. And again, price. MX will always be cheaper than Alps. And people will use them just because of that. I'm not saying having Alps back would be bad. It'd be amazing. But there's still definitely market room for mx switches, PCBs and keycaps. I do think Alps feel better, but it's also a ton of hype. I have mx boards now that I wouldn't bother putting Alps on if I could. They feel great the way they are haha.

Don't get me wrong. I really hope this happens. But it's a little early to ring the death bell of cherry switches.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #62 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 15:40:43 »
I mean I get it. But there's no way MX switches would just disappear. Look how many brands and types of products are supported that are just objectively inferior. And again, price. MX will always be cheaper than Alps. And people will use them just because of that. I'm not saying having Alps back would be bad. It'd be amazing. But there's still definitely market room for mx switches, PCBs and keycaps. I do think Alps feel better, but it's also a ton of hype. I have mx boards now that I wouldn't bother putting Alps on if I could. They feel great the way they are haha.

Don't get me wrong. I really hope this happens. But it's a little early to ring the death bell of cherry switches.

That's why I gave them 10 years. I don't think that Alps would cost significantly more than Cherry MX, even initially, with enough support from the community. Kailh is selling box switches for very reasonable prices, and those are a completely different design instead of a straight-up clone, they're not alone either.

I don't honestly know that I would keep any of my Cherry compatible boards, over time, if I had the option of brand new Alps switches/boards.

Offline Zeelobby

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #63 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 16:22:12 »
I mean I get it. But there's no way MX switches would just disappear. Look how many brands and types of products are supported that are just objectively inferior. And again, price. MX will always be cheaper than Alps. And people will use them just because of that. I'm not saying having Alps back would be bad. It'd be amazing. But there's still definitely market room for mx switches, PCBs and keycaps. I do think Alps feel better, but it's also a ton of hype. I have mx boards now that I wouldn't bother putting Alps on if I could. They feel great the way they are haha.

Don't get me wrong. I really hope this happens. But it's a little early to ring the death bell of cherry switches.

That's why I gave them 10 years. I don't think that Alps would cost significantly more than Cherry MX, even initially, with enough support from the community. Kailh is selling box switches for very reasonable prices, and those are a completely different design instead of a straight-up clone, they're not alone either.

I don't honestly know that I would keep any of my Cherry compatible boards, over time, if I had the option of brand new Alps switches/boards.
But some complex Alps switches have 11 individual parts. That's still twice the number boxes have. Now I feel like we've thrown logic out the window. These are gonna be pricey for a while.

And we're also completely ignoring the gaming keyboard market (who outnumber us significantly) who companies will gladly sell cheaper mx switches to forever. Sure their $500 pro keyboard will have the new Alps.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #64 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 16:57:01 »
I mean I get it. But there's no way MX switches would just disappear. Look how many brands and types of products are supported that are just objectively inferior. And again, price. MX will always be cheaper than Alps. And people will use them just because of that. I'm not saying having Alps back would be bad. It'd be amazing. But there's still definitely market room for mx switches, PCBs and keycaps. I do think Alps feel better, but it's also a ton of hype. I have mx boards now that I wouldn't bother putting Alps on if I could. They feel great the way they are haha.

Don't get me wrong. I really hope this happens. But it's a little early to ring the death bell of cherry switches.

That's why I gave them 10 years. I don't think that Alps would cost significantly more than Cherry MX, even initially, with enough support from the community. Kailh is selling box switches for very reasonable prices, and those are a completely different design instead of a straight-up clone, they're not alone either.

I don't honestly know that I would keep any of my Cherry compatible boards, over time, if I had the option of brand new Alps switches/boards.
But some complex Alps switches have 11 individual parts. That's still twice the number boxes have. Now I feel like we've thrown logic out the window. These are gonna be pricey for a while.

And we're also completely ignoring the gaming keyboard market (who outnumber us significantly) who companies will gladly sell cheaper mx switches to forever. Sure their $500 pro keyboard will have the new Alps.

What is your idea of pricey? We're talking about plastic and tiny bits of folded/stamped metal. $500 pro keyboard? lol. Why?

I haven't ignored the gaming keyboard market, especially since many of the cool new contactless switches have been breaking out directly into that market. For many, that's also what starts them on their path to where we are. I don't know that we would even be talking about resurrecting Alps switches if not for the resurgence of mechanical keyboards into the mainstream, spearheaded by the PC gaming market. We are entering a keyboard renaissance, the lack of which being what allowed Cherry to corner the market.

Offline Zeelobby

  • Posts: 424
Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #65 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 17:42:09 »
I mean I get it. But there's no way MX switches would just disappear. Look how many brands and types of products are supported that are just objectively inferior. And again, price. MX will always be cheaper than Alps. And people will use them just because of that. I'm not saying having Alps back would be bad. It'd be amazing. But there's still definitely market room for mx switches, PCBs and keycaps. I do think Alps feel better, but it's also a ton of hype. I have mx boards now that I wouldn't bother putting Alps on if I could. They feel great the way they are haha.

Don't get me wrong. I really hope this happens. But it's a little early to ring the death bell of cherry switches.

That's why I gave them 10 years. I don't think that Alps would cost significantly more than Cherry MX, even initially, with enough support from the community. Kailh is selling box switches for very reasonable prices, and those are a completely different design instead of a straight-up clone, they're not alone either.

I don't honestly know that I would keep any of my Cherry compatible boards, over time, if I had the option of brand new Alps switches/boards.
But some complex Alps switches have 11 individual parts. That's still twice the number boxes have. Now I feel like we've thrown logic out the window. These are gonna be pricey for a while.

And we're also completely ignoring the gaming keyboard market (who outnumber us significantly) who companies will gladly sell cheaper mx switches to forever. Sure their $500 pro keyboard will have the new Alps.

What is your idea of pricey? We're talking about plastic and tiny bits of folded/stamped metal. $500 pro keyboard? lol. Why?

I haven't ignored the gaming keyboard market, especially since many of the cool new contactless switches have been breaking out directly into that market. For many, that's also what starts them on their path to where we are. I don't know that we would even be talking about resurrecting Alps switches if not for the resurgence of mechanical keyboards into the mainstream, spearheaded by the PC gaming market. We are entering a keyboard renaissance, the lack of which being what allowed Cherry to corner the market.
Cause why not. They're "miracle" switches. The $500 was just including the gaming market markup. And Alps switches will easily start at at least 4x the cost of a basic cherry switch. And at least twice as expensive as a novelty mx switch.

Clearly your just an optimistic person. Just don't be shocked if mx is still around in 10 years. Lol. I'd love to be wrong.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #66 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 18:34:12 »
I mean I get it. But there's no way MX switches would just disappear. Look how many brands and types of products are supported that are just objectively inferior. And again, price. MX will always be cheaper than Alps. And people will use them just because of that. I'm not saying having Alps back would be bad. It'd be amazing. But there's still definitely market room for mx switches, PCBs and keycaps. I do think Alps feel better, but it's also a ton of hype. I have mx boards now that I wouldn't bother putting Alps on if I could. They feel great the way they are haha.

Don't get me wrong. I really hope this happens. But it's a little early to ring the death bell of cherry switches.

That's why I gave them 10 years. I don't think that Alps would cost significantly more than Cherry MX, even initially, with enough support from the community. Kailh is selling box switches for very reasonable prices, and those are a completely different design instead of a straight-up clone, they're not alone either.

I don't honestly know that I would keep any of my Cherry compatible boards, over time, if I had the option of brand new Alps switches/boards.
But some complex Alps switches have 11 individual parts. That's still twice the number boxes have. Now I feel like we've thrown logic out the window. These are gonna be pricey for a while.

And we're also completely ignoring the gaming keyboard market (who outnumber us significantly) who companies will gladly sell cheaper mx switches to forever. Sure their $500 pro keyboard will have the new Alps.

What is your idea of pricey? We're talking about plastic and tiny bits of folded/stamped metal. $500 pro keyboard? lol. Why?

I haven't ignored the gaming keyboard market, especially since many of the cool new contactless switches have been breaking out directly into that market. For many, that's also what starts them on their path to where we are. I don't know that we would even be talking about resurrecting Alps switches if not for the resurgence of mechanical keyboards into the mainstream, spearheaded by the PC gaming market. We are entering a keyboard renaissance, the lack of which being what allowed Cherry to corner the market.
Cause why not. They're "miracle" switches. The $500 was just including the gaming market markup. And Alps switches will easily start at at least 4x the cost of a basic cherry switch. And at least twice as expensive as a novelty mx switch.

Clearly your just an optimistic person. Just don't be shocked if mx is still around in 10 years. Lol. I'd love to be wrong.

Nobody would pay $500. I wouldn't even pay that. You can get a new production Model F in a brick of a zinc chassis for $400. Why would it conceivably cost 4x as much as Cherry MX? Box switches already cost less than Cherry.

I'm not an optimistic person at all. In general, I would consider myself a pessimist, if anything. I just think the difference in feel is enough to change the entire market once Alps switches get wider exposure.

Offline Zeelobby

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #67 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 19:23:42 »
I mean I didn't pull 4x out of my hat for no reason. It's simply logical that a switch with 4x more pieces is going to be 4x more expensive. Probably should be more considering the complexity of the design and the amount of development and tweaking that will be needed to get it to be equal to the previous ones. Will they be cheaper in 10 years, sure. Are they going to cost the same as MX Cherry Blues on the day of release, rofl, hell no.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #68 on: Thu, 13 February 2020, 12:47:55 »
I mean I didn't pull 4x out of my hat for no reason. It's simply logical that a switch with 4x more pieces is going to be 4x more expensive. Probably should be more considering the complexity of the design and the amount of development and tweaking that will be needed to get it to be equal to the previous ones. Will they be cheaper in 10 years, sure. Are they going to cost the same as MX Cherry Blues on the day of release, rofl, hell no.

I would think they would be at least as cheap as Cherry blues, since huge portions of the cost are going to a well-established, bloated corporation focused primarily on revenue numbers, and which can set whatever price they like and get it, since they have a monopoly in the industrial and retail keyboard markets.

The only real point you have is dialing them in to perfectly replicate the originals. which is a problem modern switches obviously don't have. The only reason parts numbers should make any major difference is if Alps switches were significantly more time consuming/difficult to assemble than Cherry, when it comes to labor costs, unless the magical mystery Alps lube turns out to be some kind unobtainable precious element turned to a powder. We're talking about paper thin stamped metal, and plastic.

Adjusted for inflation, Ellipse is selling zinc chassis Model Fs for half of what IBM was selling them for, with low-quality pot metal cases to boot.

Even if it costs a little more than Cherry, it wouldn't make much difference. There's no rational reason for it to cost significantly more, especially when you can still just find authentic boards to harvest them from (although that's heresy in my book) for less than that.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #69 on: Thu, 13 February 2020, 13:47:27 »
Will they be ruined if I sneeze too near to them like the real thing?

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #70 on: Thu, 13 February 2020, 13:48:42 »
But in all seriousness, I'd try them if they do happen  :thumb:

Offline mountainblocks

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #71 on: Thu, 13 February 2020, 14:00:17 »
What we really need are new varieties of Alps stem keycaps. Until that happens, I can't see there being much of a market for recreated switches.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #72 on: Thu, 13 February 2020, 14:01:47 »
What we really need are new varieties of Alps stem keycaps. Until that happens, I can't see there being much of a market for recreated switches.

Agreed tbh. Thin, weird layout, yellowing, or ugly all seem to be something associated with most alps caps.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #73 on: Thu, 13 February 2020, 20:45:26 »
Will they be ruined if I sneeze too near to them like the real thing?

Probably. Wear your Coronavirus mask when in the same room as it and store the board in a vacuum bag when not in use.

It does seriously make me wonder if I should bother using my one good DC-2014 at work, but it should be good if I cover it when not in use.

What we really need are new varieties of Alps stem keycaps. Until that happens, I can't see there being much of a market for recreated switches.

I have at least 2, maybe 3, retro boards that are prime for a switch swap so that I don't have to bother trying to clean them (and I would rather have blues than yellows or greens anyway).

You've got a bit of a chicken and an egg problem there otherwise. You can't expect manufacturers to make caps for stems that are all but extinct outside of the Matias niche, because as such, there's not a huge demand. People with vintage boards already have caps for them. In my mind, we need the switches, and interest in them, before we get caps. Best case scenario is coordinated/simultaneous development and release.

Offline Ruediger87

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #74 on: Sat, 15 February 2020, 13:23:06 »
This would be amazing if it happens! It would be interesting to see if you could actually manage to copy everything exactly the same as the Alps' design - I have a feeling that this would be immensely hard. Either way, I just filled up the interest form and have got my fingers crossed. Alps are amazing.