graphics cards

[gr1m]

Okay first of all, you need to learn manners and stop criticizing products when someone says it works well for them. Just because YOU think it's bad or not "the best", doesn't mean you have to enforce it.

BECAUSE the product works well for whomever is using it, they can say it's excellent as it gets the job done well.

Is this about your G70 thread? When you got called out for calling it an excellent CRT when in fact, according to the specifications and common opinion, it's a piece of ****?

If something works it doesn't make it excellent. Not at all. You need to learn that "This thing works" is different from "This thing works exceptionally". I've had many products that work. My Pentium 4 worked and it was a piece of ****. Onboard sound works and it sounds like ****. Semprons work and they're pieces of ****; far from excellent. You know what, I can go to Walmart right now and buy an electric guitar for like $30 bucks. It will work. Excellent guitar? Not by a long shot.

If you want to call a power supply excellent, you should have the numbers on your side, which in this case, they are not. On top of that, it was purchased on Ebay, open box; if that isn't enough to earn it the shoddy moniker, this should do it: IT'S OWN INCLUDED MODULAR CABLES DID NOT FIT INTO THE POWER SUPPLY and had to be modified by chimera15.

Definitions of excellent on the Web:

very good;of the highest quality; "made an excellent speech"; "the school has excellent teachers"; "a first-class mind"
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

[chimera15]

One of my issues with amd, is that every amd I've ever used has had a different feel of the way programs open, and the desktop in general, even my turion x2 ultra laptops, and I don't like it, like more jarring or something, I don't know, maybe it's just me impressing my opinions of amd on the machine or something. lol

[EverythingIBM]

Is this about your G70 thread? When you got called out for calling it an excellent CRT when in fact, according to the specifications and common opinion, it's a piece of ****?

If something works it doesn't make it excellent. Not at all. You need to learn that "This thing works" is different from "This thing works exceptionally". I've had many products that work. My Pentium 4 worked and it was a piece of ****. Onboard sound works and it sounds like ****. Semprons work and they're pieces of ****; far from excellent. You know what, I can go to Walmart right now and buy an electric guitar for like $30 bucks. It will work. Excellent guitar? Not by a long shot.

If you want to call a power supply excellent, you should have the numbers on your side, which in this case, they are not. On top of that, it was purchased on Ebay, open box; if that isn't enough to earn it the shoddy moniker, this should do it: IT'S OWN INCLUDED MODULAR CABLES DID NOT FIT INTO THE POWER SUPPLY and had to be modified by chimera15.

You're angry kid.

No, chimera is satisfied with the product. You're vehemently trying to say it's of poor quality. Your opinion is void if the product IS indeed working to satisfaction.

It doesn't matter if he has to do a few things here and they're, it's working. I had to cut some plastic tabs off of fan connectors. Some manufacturers just make things differently.

[chimera15]

Is this about your G70 thread? When you got called out for calling it an excellent CRT when in fact, according to the specifications and common opinion, it's a piece of ****?

If something works it doesn't make it excellent. Not at all. You need to learn that "This thing works" is different from "This thing works exceptionally". I've had many products that work. My Pentium 4 worked and it was a piece of ****. Onboard sound works and it sounds like ****. Semprons work and they're pieces of ****; far from excellent. You know what, I can go to Walmart right now and buy an electric guitar for like $30 bucks. It will work. Excellent guitar? Not by a long shot.

If you want to call a power supply excellent, you should have the numbers on your side, which in this case, they are not. On top of that, it was purchased on Ebay, open box; if that isn't enough to earn it the shoddy moniker, this should do it: IT'S OWN INCLUDED MODULAR CABLES DID NOT FIT INTO THE POWER SUPPLY and had to be modified by chimera15.

The numbers and reviews do support it being an excellent power supply for its class.  And it wasn't a big modifications.  You probably wouldn't even notice it if you didn't know I'd done it.  It was probably a result of the seller putting cables for a different supply in with it or something, not the manufacturer.

[gr1m]

One of my issues with amd, is that every amd I've ever used has had a different feel of the way programs open, and the desktop in general, even my turion x2 ultra laptops, and I don't like it, like more jarring or something, I don't know, maybe it's just me impressing my opinions of amd on the machine or something. lol

Most probably. I haven't noticed regular operation differences between Intel and AMD rigs. Especially no jarring.

You're angry kid.

No, chimera is satisfied with the product. You're vehemently trying to say it's of poor quality. Your opinion is void if the product IS indeed working to satisfaction.

It doesn't matter if he has to do a few things here and they're, it's working. I had to cut some plastic tabs off of fan connectors. Some manufacturers just make things differently.

Give it time, he hasn't used it 24/7 yet. Bad PSUs aren't supposed to die on the first day. That would just make them broken PSUs and not bad PSUs. How am I being vehement? The word "shoddy" does not really have strong emotional connotations.

Also, it was the power supply's own included cables that didn't fit into the power supply. I mean, sure, some manufacturers make things differently but even two parts of the same product?

[EverythingIBM]

One of my issues with amd, is that every amd I've ever used has had a different feel of the way programs open, and the desktop in general, even my turion x2 ultra laptops, and I don't like it, like more jarring or something, I don't know, maybe it's just me impressing my opinions of amd on the machine or something. lol

AMD just isn't as mainstream. The slower low-end semprons ran like mud... I was laughing at my friend's laptop when he had it and attempted to run "mummy maze" -- took 10 minutes to open (after that though, he's not getting AMD again I guess).

Intel seems to work better for me, AMD *did* have advantages in the past, but like everything, when the technology catches up, the companies that hastily rushed higher-end products eventually go into debt (3dfx *cough*).

[EverythingIBM]

Give it time, he hasn't used it 24/7 yet. Bad PSUs aren't supposed to die on the first day. That would just make them broken PSUs and not bad PSUs. How am I being vehement? The word "shoddy" does not really have strong emotional connotations.

Also, it was the power supply's own included cables that didn't fit into the power supply. I mean, sure, some manufacturers make things differently but even two parts of the same product?

The PSU will work fine. It won't die suddenly.

[ch_123]

AMD just isn't as mainstream.

Most big name computer companies use them. That works for me.

The slower low-end semprons ran like mud...

Were you comparing them with the contemporary Celeron? Were you sure that the CPU was to blame and not a poorly installed/maintained OS installation? I suspect a lot of variables were not accounted for in this assessment.

You're angry kid.

Says the guy who claims to shout at Macs in computer stores.

[gr1m]

The numbers and reviews do support it being an excellent power supply for its class.  And it wasn't a big modifications.  You probably wouldn't even notice it if you didn't know I'd done it.  It was probably a result of the seller putting cables for a different supply in with it or something, not the manufacturer.

I wouldn't have noticed it no. But the fact remains you bought something that didn't work out of the box and you had to modify it. Do you really want to trust something like that with delivering power to your components?

Numbers? Phaedrus is the self-proclaimed numbers king and he sure as hell doesn't think the numbers support it being an excellent power supply. Reviews? They mean a product works. Nothing more.

Yeah. I'm all for liking things which aren't necessarily good (hell, I like my 286, and it isn't even a 'good' 286). The thing is, if you like inferior things, you need to admit they are inferior, otherwise you look like a jackass.

"I really like ______ despite it being technically inferior to such things as ______, _______ or _____. For me, ______ attribute is more important than _______ overall presentation" is generally a good form to follow when bragging about liking not-the-best things.

PSUs, no exception. Buy a reputable brand at an appropriate price, NEW, or face the risk of destroying your stuff. I'm running a pretty questionable unit in my desktop (it's a Thermaltake, but not a particularly good one) and I understand the risks involved. I simply don't have the cash to go buying a PSU that costs more than $40. Sooner or later I'll end up with a good one, but until such a time, it's a gamble every time I flip the back switch on and press that power button.

The fact in this case is that power supplies all tend to appear to work alike when they're new, even trashy ones. The difference is in how they die and how long it takes to die. These things aren't known until the death occurs.

Listen to this man.

[chimera15]

Most probably. I haven't noticed regular operation differences between Intel and AMD rigs. Especially no jarring.



Give it time, he hasn't used it 24/7 yet. Bad PSUs aren't supposed to die on the first day. That would just make them broken PSUs and not bad PSUs. How am I being vehement? The word "shoddy" does not really have strong emotional connotations.

Also, it was the power supply's own included cables that didn't fit into the power supply. I mean, sure, some manufacturers make things differently but even two parts of the same product?

It wasn't like it was a quality issue that I had to repair. The plugs on the cables were clearly differently shaped.  Like triangular shapes where square should be and such, and tabs that were larger than they should be.  I'm pretty sure the cables were for a different although perhaps similar supply, as they were very close.  I just had to trim down some of the shapes here and there.

I thought for a while I was doing something wrong, like had the wrong plug that went into the hole or something, but triple checked it, with a multimeter as well.  None of the connectors on a single line would fit the holes, so it had to be wrong connectors.

[whininggit]

One of my issues with amd, is that every amd I've ever used has had a different feel of the way programs open, and the desktop in general, even my turion x2 ultra laptops, and I don't like it, like more jarring or something, I don't know, maybe it's just me impressing my opinions of amd on the machine or something. lol

It might not be the CPU causing this. I'm not entirely sure I know what you're talking about but I think I might - slow/jerky screen redraw although everything else is running smoothly?

Current ATI graphics card employ some very aggressive power saving techniques and leads to horrendous screen redraw speeds, to the point that a moderately complex page in Firefox can be seen redrawing with the naked eye, and opening large windows occurs in several stages from top to bottom (not as bad as when using the failsafe VGA driver, but not as quick as it should be). I considered replacing my Radeon HD 3650 with an equivalent nVidia card, but settled on overriding the PowerPlay clock speeds to something more sensible (300MHz idle vs 110MHz).

[ch_123]

One of my issues with amd, is that every amd I've ever used has had a different feel of the way programs open, and the desktop in general, even my turion x2 ultra laptops, and I don't like it, like more jarring or something, I don't know, maybe it's just me impressing my opinions of amd on the machine or something. lol

Wait, I'm lost. Are we talking about CPUs or electric garage doors here?

[chimera15]

Wait, I'm lost. Are we talking about CPUs or electric garage doors here?

Amd garage door openers clearly open differently from intel. lol

[instantkamera]

It wasn't like it was a quality issue that I had to repair. The plugs on the cables were clearly differently shaped.  Like triangular shapes where square should be and such, and tabs that were larger than they should be.  I'm pretty sure the cables were for a different although perhaps similar supply, as they were very close.  I just had to trim down some of the shapes here and there.

I thought for a while I was doing something wrong, like had the wrong plug that went into the hole or something, but triple checked it, with a multimeter as well.  None of the connectors on a single line would fit the holes, so it had to be wrong connectors.

ok seriously, how did I over-look this? That sounds ****ing SKETCH-EYE!

Forget the power supply quality question for a second, how do you nonchalantly continue to be like:

"Yeah, ebay rocks for buying hundreds of dollars worth of computer equipment. Sure, I might have to whittle something new out of the garbage they send me, but I'll do anything to save a buck or two."

[chimera15]

ok seriously, how did I over-look this? That sounds ****ing SKETCH-EYE!

Forget the power supply quality question for a second, how do you nonchalantly continue to be like:

"Yeah, ebay rocks for buying hundreds of dollars worth of computer equipment. Sure, I might have to whittle something new out of the garbage they send me, but I'll do anything to save a buck or two."

I think getting something for 1/3 the cost is worth a little whittling time.  Sides I was a professional whittler, so it's no big deal to me.

[instantkamera]

If something works it doesn't make it excellent. Not at all. You need to learn that "This thing works" is different from "This thing works exceptionally".

Totally reminds me of a newer Louis CK routine (which I am unable to find in video or transcribed verbatim anywhere ATM) where he shares his disapproval at the overuse of "top-shelf" adjectives, like "hilarious" when something is nowhere near hilarious.

Funny guy.

[ch_123]

I think getting something for 1/3 the cost is worth a little whittling time.  Sides I was a professional whittler, so it's no big deal to me.

"This Chongchongic PSU has a retail value of $100, but order now with your credit card on this exclusive offer and get it for only $32.95!"

[D-EJ915]

you should have bought this

[instantkamera]

I swear I have that issue somewhere... actually I think they got tossed when I moved provinces. But I still have all my MaxCDs

[instantkamera]

lol @ s3. I had a savage 4 (diamond card) as well as the ever-popular s3 trio (in a VLB card i think)

[instantkamera]

so only the top three are still biz (g400 was matrox, I BELIEVE, and they are technically still in business). I miss having all that choice (even if it was pretty superficial). I guess thats why the GPU makers now have to make 400 versions of their own products. illusion of "Choice".

[instantkamera]

HFS!! s3 still making their own GPUs?

http://www.s3graphics.com/en/products/class3.aspx?productId=19

that thing probably sucks, I see VIAs logo on that website. That company also owns cyrix, talk about a bowl of taiwanese suck.

but they distribute *nix drivers. good for them.

[Phaedrus2129]

Nvidia: still in business
ATI: owned by AMD
3DFX: out of business, employees went to Nvidia
S3: very small-time 2D/basic 3D, not a true going concern
Matrox: out of business

[hyperlinked]

Show Image

Bungholio combined with phallic object... just wrong.

[instantkamera]

Nvidia: still in business
ATI: owned by AMD
3DFX: out of business, employees went to Nvidia
S3: very small-time 2D/basic 3D, not a true going concern
Matrox: out of business

actually (having lived in Mtl) I know for a fact Matrox is NOT out of business. I knew about the rest, save for the surprising status of S3.

[gr1m]

actually (having lived in Mtl) I know for a fact Matrox is NOT out of business. I knew about the rest, save for the surprising status of S3.

When I read that, I thought automatically of the random Maxtor products I see sometimes in Futureshops but that's probably not what you meant is it? Do they have an office here?

random maxtor futureshop product

[instantkamera]

When I read that, I thought automatically of the random Maxtor products I see sometimes in Futureshops but that's probably not what you meant is it? Do they have an office here?

random maxtor futureshop product

not MAXTOR, MATROX

is you dyslexic, foo?

[instantkamera]

and yes, Matrox is a Canadian company, founded and based in Quebec:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1055+boul+Saint-Regis+,+Dorval,+QC,+H9P2T4&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=1055+St+Regis+Blvd,+Dorval,+Communaut%C3%A9-Urbaine-de-Montr%C3%A9al,+Quebec&ll=45.491006,-73.767292&spn=0.011733,0.01929&z=16&layer=c&cbll=45.490924,-73.767123&panoid=ZZzdbwdM8f67eotqq4SgYQ&cbp=12,45.27,,0,-1.01

right la, 'sti.

[D-EJ915]

I think someone is dyslexic lol

[D-EJ915]

these cards are almost as long as that

[gr1m]

Oh shi-

Gimme a braek, it's 12 MA.

[instantkamera]

these cards are almost as long as that

Show Image

Those ARE huge, what are they? I would guess voodoos in SLI(scan line interleave, not the newfangled SLI), but I can see DVI interfaces, which I dont think they had, plus I dont see the bridge connector thingy that connects the two. Do tell.

[instantkamera]

3dLabs?

[Phaedrus2129]

Nvidia SLI = 3DFX SLI with different name. Remember, all the 3DFX folks went to Nvidia when they shut down. Nvidia just changed the words behind the acronym to avoid copyright infringement while keeping the meaning clear. The new wording doesn't even make sense, "scaled link interface"? That doesn't mean anything, whereas "scan line interleave" is a perfectly sensible technical term.

[instantkamera]

Nvidia SLI = 3DFX SLI with different name. Remember, all the 3DFX folks went to Nvidia when they shut down. Nvidia just changed the words behind the acronym to avoid copyright infringement while keeping the meaning clear. The new wording doesn't even make sense, "scaled link interface"? That doesn't mean anything, whereas "scan line interleave" is a perfectly sensible technical term.

Yeah I was just trying not to get trolled by crazies on the forum crying foul: "they didn't have SLI back then" or something to that effect.

Why do I have the sneaking suspicion that I failed?

Edit:

It is SCALABLE Link Interface, by the way. Which, while it doesn't quite sum up the theory of how the technology is supposed to work, it does DESCRIBE the technology as it IS scalable as well as beings a "link-interface" for the cards.

[Phaedrus2129]

Yeah, but how vague is that? You have a link interface. Ok. And it's scalable. Ok. SO what's it a link interface for? Why should I care?

[microsoft windows]

Those ARE huge, what are they? I would guess voodoos in SLI(scan line interleave, not the newfangled SLI), but I can see DVI interfaces, which I dont think they had, plus I dont see the bridge connector thingy that connects the two. Do tell.

They're nothing compared to MY voodoo card (It's one of the first ones; a real footlong!).

[audioave10]

Back when video cards were very small, I saw one of those Voodoo cards and thought "perfect name".

[instantkamera]

They're nothing compared to MY voodoo card (It's one of the first ones; a real footlong!).

arent the latest (voodoo5) cards the longest of the 3dfx card? Sorry, everything you have IS awesome.

[instantkamera]

Yeah, but how vague is that? You have a link interface. Ok. And it's scalable. Ok. SO what's it a link interface for? Why should I care?

You say that like you have NO context at all for the term SLI.

Some would say that it is a sign of the times. Computer manufacturers try to obscure more of the technical details to the consumer, or certainly don't go out of their way to inform.

The reality is likely this:

SLI was an acronym that NV wanted to use for nostalgia - they knew gamers from the voodoo days would recognize the acronym, and that it denoted technology they were likely SOMEWHAT familiar with (parallel processing for their 3d graphic rendering).

However, despite your contention that this is the same technology, it really ISN'T (I must admit I am not that savvy when it comes to gaming, so graphics cards are not my thing. I did some research).

For one thing, Nvidia has Split Frame Rendering. SFR IS similar to Scan Line Interleaving, but works in a more intelligent and dynamic fashion based on frame composition. IF this was the only algorithm they used, I could see them keeping the OG "SLI". However, they also have Alternate Frame Rendering (AFR) which does exactly what you would guess, as well as SLI Anti Aliasing (AA).

Thus, to use SLI as an acronym for "Scan Line Interleav[ing]" would be factually inaccurate, so they made something that (sorta) fit.

souce:wikipedia, of course.

[microsoft windows]

arent the latest (voodoo5) cards the longest of the 3dfx card? Sorry, everything you have IS awesome.

I don't know. I know my old I3D Voodoo is almost a foot long. It just barely fits in my full tower Gateway2000. Who knows, though. Maybe those Voodoo5 ones are even bigger...

[Phaedrus2129]

Almost a foot? My Sapphire 4870 is 11.5", and that's considered just on the long side of average. Look at the 5970s.

[microsoft windows]

I didn't measure it exactly. But it's one of these:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7b/IntergraphVoodooRush.jpg

It's pretty big.

[EverythingIBM]

Almost a foot? My Sapphire 4870 is 11.5", and that's considered just on the long side of average. Look at the 5970s.

I think that's longer than my stupid quadro fx 3400. Anything longer than a quadro and it might clash into the P4 heatsink lol.

[chimera15]

They used to have combo cards that were fairly common that took up the entire case as well, back in the early days, that did like 5 things that were previously on separate cards.

[microsoft windows]

I remember those!


I got one of those Quadro's lying around. I use my GeForce 5200 that I picked out of a busted computer a few years ago for its VGA port. It's a decent card.

[EverythingIBM]

I remember those!


I got one of those Quadro's lying around. I use my GeForce 5200 that I picked out of a busted computer a few years ago for its VGA port. It's a decent card.

The problem is all of my monitors are VGA only. I doubt DVI would really enhance the picture anyhow, but Nvidia could have at least had the courtesy to add a VGA port. My DVI to VGA cable (that I use) only supports 60 Hz, opposed to my adapter + VGA cable which supports 75 Hz.

Why do I even bother. I'm going to get a good ATI card that has VGA one of these days.

[microsoft windows]

My Geforce FX 55200's got both a VGA and DVI in it. My IBM P275 monitor can also handle both analogue and digital input (It's got a switch on the front to switch between them). I use the analogue input (although I oughta consider DVI since it's running at a high resolution).

VGA cable only supporting 75Hz? That's something I've never heard of. You oughta take a good look and see if Windows is recognizing the monitor right.

[D-EJ915]

Those ARE huge, what are they? I would guess voodoos in SLI(scan line interleave, not the newfangled SLI), but I can see DVI interfaces, which I dont think they had, plus I dont see the bridge connector thingy that connects the two. Do tell.

HP FX10 one of the fastest cards around when it was released.  After that they went with an external solution the Diamond FireGL2.  SGI and Sun had some huge ones in their deskside systems, the XVR-4000 being an example which is the same size as the CPU board.

[ch_123]

The problem is all of my monitors are VGA only. I doubt DVI would really enhance the picture anyhow, but Nvidia could have at least had the courtesy to add a VGA port. My DVI to VGA cable (that I use) only supports 60 Hz, opposed to my adapter + VGA cable which supports 75 Hz.

Why do I even bother. I'm going to get a good ATI card that has VGA one of these days.

On a lot of flatscreen monitors, the difference between VGA and DVI is quite profound. Older Dell LCDs in particular would have lots of blur in the centre of the screen when using VGA, but would be perfectly sharp under DVI.