graphics cards

[Phaedrus2129]

I smelled one days ago. I mainly hang out in this thread to talk around him.

[instantkamera]

 I just have never considered building an amd desktop for like 10-15 years.  

Seriously, you are basing your judgement of AMD on 15 year old data? Sheeeeit, you might as well be talking about cyrix here...

[gr1m]

Also, go to the same review:

Far Cry 2:
http://hardware-infos.com/tests.php?test=64&seite=7
Same ****.

GRAW:
http://hardware-infos.com/tests.php?test=64&seite=8
Same ****.

What's a "typical" game for you? One where Intel beats AMD?

[gr1m]

No, but given I saw no parts list there of the units they were testing, I'm not sure it was a fair comparison.  Is there a list of what they were testing exactly?  Even the motherboard cpu combination can have big effects on performance, within brands, let alone amd vs intel.  Even from chip to chip with intel, you'll get different results, and different level of overclock capability.  One way or another it'll be unfair.

Do you have an inability to go to different pages in reviews? And possible right click on the page and click translate?

http://hardware-infos.com/tests.php?test=64&seite=3

[ch_123]

I smelled one days ago. I mainly hang out in this thread to talk around him.

I chime in when interesting questions are raised. But yeah, most of this looks like bull****.

[gr1m]

Why do I always fall for these and actually waste time looking for legit benchmarks and ****

[chimera15]

I chime in when interesting questions are raised. But yeah, most of this looks like bull****.

It is bs, cause a bunch of amd fanboys decided to troll my post on graphics cards.  Next we'll hear from the mac enthusiasts telling me I should just buy a mac.

[Phaedrus2129]

No, but given I saw no parts list there of the units they were testing, I'm not sure it was a fair comparison.  Is there a list of what they were testing exactly? Even the motherboard cpu combination can have big effects on performance, within brands, let alone amd vs intel.  Even from chip to chip with intel, you'll get different results, and different level of overclock capability.  One way or another it'll be unfair.  It even matters little things like what system, or even what programs are installed on the system, you'll get different results for the benchmarks.  So it's very difficult to get fair comparisons, you need a large sample size.

That being the point.

It's hardly unfair if you keep the GPU, HDD, RAM, etc. the same and only change the mobo and CPU and compare motherboards or motherboard/CPU pairs of comparable cost.

[Phaedrus2129]

It is bs, cause a bunch of amd fanboys decided to troll my post on graphics cards.

Classy. Yeah, I think this thread is over.

[ch_123]

It is bs, cause a bunch of amd fanboys decided to troll my post on graphics cards.  Next we'll hear from the mac enthusiasts telling me I should just buy a mac.

You should. They're shiny and so easy to use.

Have good PSUs too.

[chimera15]

Seriously, you are basing your judgement of AMD on 15 year old data? Sheeeeit, you might as well be talking about cyrix here...

Yes, because I decided back then that amd's suck, and stopped being interested in building them.  As I said it may not be true now, but I have no interest in switching to them, especially since I haven't been able to find any significantly cheaper than the Intel parts I've looked at.

[instantkamera]

I made up my mind a long time ago that instead of learning ANYTHING, I'm simply going to pretend I know everything. That way, instead of having to actually acquire information and process it, I can allow my brain to atrophy until I eventually can't remember to breath. Basically, what I believe is totally true, because I say it is. BTW, the world is most definitely flat.

awesome.

[gr1m]

You should. They're shiny and so easy to use.

Have good PSUs too.

And video cards. I heard Macs now support 4870s. For $400. Should outperform 9800GTs and GTX 260s.

[Phaedrus2129]

Come over to the Big Rig thread, it's a better party. Chimera isn't invited due to low intelligence.

[instantkamera]

It is bs, cause a bunch of amd fanboys decided to troll my post on graphics cards.  Next we'll hear from the mac enthusiasts telling me I should just buy a mac.

Actually, to be fair, a bunch of pro-good-PSU(or anti-bad-PSU) fanboys decided to troll your post on graphics cards.

I think it is relevant to point out that no one HAS recommended a Mac, despite the fact that you have placed yourself squarely within their targeted user-base. This would lend credence to our suggestions to anyone willing to listen ...

[chimera15]

awesome.

Yeah, and when you buy a car, be sure to do all the research on Yugo's too.  In my mind AMD should have died a long time ago.

[gr1m]

Come over to the Big Rig thread, it's a better party. Chimera isn't invited due to low intelligence.

Enterprise just deleted it (from vent).

[ch_123]

Actually, to be fair, a bunch of pro-good-PSU(or anti-bad-PSU) fanboys decided to troll your post on graphics cards.

Anti-bad PSU fanboys? That's like - "Those car safety people are seatbelt fanboys".

[chimera15]

Actually, to be fair, a bunch of pro-good-PSU(or anti-bad-PSU) fanboys decided to troll your post on graphics cards.

I think it is relevant to point out that no one HAS recommended a Mac, despite the fact that you have placed yourself squarely within their targeted user-base. This would lend credence to our suggestions to anyone willing to listen ...

So because I don't want to know every component of a psu, that I can buy for $50, I'm a Mac user? lol Or can't afford some massive graphics card, and don't want to buy an Amd?  AMD users are closer to mac users than I am.

[instantkamera]

Anti-bad PSU fanboys? That's like - "Those car safety people are seatbelt fanboys".

I think your ****ty PSU blew-out your sarcasm detector.

[instantkamera]

AMD users are closer to mac users than I am.

You don't say.

[chimera15]

Anti-bad PSU fanboys? That's like - "Those car safety people are seatbelt fanboys".

Those PSU fanboys are more like, people who want to pay 20k for an engine in their car that can make it go 200mph, but never drive more than 60mph.

Personally, I'll pay $1000 for an engine that will go 200mph, as I did, and laugh as I pass them on the road.

[ch_123]

Yeah. That's a pretty bad problem on this system. Should use the one I have with the Corsair PSU...

So because I don't want to know every component of a psu, that I can buy for $50, I'm a Mac user? lol Or can't afford some massive graphics card, and don't want to buy an Amd? AMD users are closer to mac users than I am.

Is Chimera a sock puppet account for MW?

[gr1m]

AMD users are closer to mac users than I am.

AMD user posts in this thread have been tests and benchmarks. Your posts in this thread have been "AMD sucked 15 years ago I ain't gwain' buy sheeyit, Intel dun treat me right well". Tell me which one is more fanboyish?

Those PSU fanboys are more like, people who want to pay 20k for an engine in their car that can make it go 200mph, but never drive more than 60mph.

Personally, I'll pay $1000 for an engine that will go 200mph, as I did, and laugh as I pass them on the road.

NO! See, PSU fanboys are more like people who want to pay more for a component of the engine that does not affect performance but affects quality drastically. People who want to pay 20k for an engine in their car that can make it go 200MPH but never drive more than 60MPH are PEOPLE WHO BUY i7 PROCESSORS FOR GAMING COMPUTERS. Trippin' over your own analogies.

[instantkamera]

Having a quality psu is more like, people who want to pay 20k for an engine in their car that can make it go 200mph, but never drive more than 60mph.

Personally, I'll pay $1000 for an engine that will go 200mph, as I did, and laugh as I pass them on the road.

Using the term QUALITY followed by an analogy of QUANTITY makes you look like a biter. Just sayin'.

[chimera15]

AMD user posts in this thread have been tests and benchmarks. Your posts in this thread have been "AMD sucked 15 years ago I ain't gwain' buy sheeyit, Intel dun treat me right well". Tell me which one is more fanboyish?

I've at least used, serviced, and built both.   I didn't like them.  I gave them a try, and they sucked.  I'm supposed to try them again, why?  Cause some anonymous people on the net said they've changed, and showed me a benchmark that has no details?

[ch_123]

Actually, everyone on this thread is just a sock puppet account for me, and I own AMD. It is my corporate vision that marketing be psychologically oppressive and distinctly personal. Think Big Brother, except with CPUs.

[gr1m]

I've at least used, serviced, and built both.   I didn't like them.  I gave them a try, and they sucked.  I'm supposed to try them again, why?  Cause some anonymous people on the net said they've changed, and showed me a benchmark that has no details?

Anonymous people who, by your own admission, know more about computers than you. Yes you are.

[chimera15]

Anonymous people who, by your own admission, know more about computers than you. Yes you are.

I think most of them know a lot more than me in theory, but most of them lack real world experience.  The lack of theory knowledge on my part is temporary until I have time to come back up to speed.

[gr1m]

I think most of them know a lot more than me in theory, but most of them lack real world experience.

I've used Phenom II and you haven't. How's that for lack of real world experience? Or is real world experience in your books defined as "good experience with Intel, bad with AMD, everyone else be trollin' and dun' goofed". Or is experience with processors 15 years ago a requirement to build gaming computers in 2010?

[chimera15]

I've used Phenom II and you haven't. How's that for lack of real world experience? Or is real world experience in your books defined as "good experience with Intel, bad with AMD, everyone else be trollin' and dun' goofed". Or is experience with processors 15 years ago a requirement to build gaming computers in 2010?

Have you used/built an i7?  Have you built an amd?

As far as building a computer today, vs 15 years ago, unless everything I've been looking at is different, computers have been pretty much the same in parts since like 1984, and when I built my first at clone in 1987.

[gr1m]

Two. One for a guy who does 3D work and encodes media, and another for a guy who does a lot of burning/ripping for piracy purposes. If you pull the "I don't believe you" card I can get proof in a few days. The media encoding guy has a GTX 260 and his gaming performance cannot compare to my computer's because I have a much more powerful GPU. The other has a 512mb 4870, another relative featherweight compared to my 990MHz core 4890 and my computer consistently gets higher frames (4870 512mb and GTX 260 though are too weak compared to 4890s, but that should give you an idea of how important GPUs are for gaming rigs).

[chimera15]

Two. One for a guy who does 3D work and encodes media, and another for a guy who does a lot of burning/ripping for piracy purposes. If you pull the "I don't believe you" card I can get proof in a few days. The media encoding guy has a GTX 260 and his gaming performance cannot compare to my computer's because I have a much more powerful GPU. The other has a 512mb 4870, another relative featherweight compared to my 990MHz core 4890 and my computer consistently gets higher frames (4870 512mb and GTX 260 though are too weak compared to 4890s, but that should give you an idea of how important GPUs are for gaming rigs).

So I do a lot of that too. Would you say that they are better for those purposes?

Obviously I know how important gpus are for gaming purposes.  The problem I've had is with people using gaming benchmarks when comparing cpus.  If they had equal gpus, which would win?

[gr1m]

Oh, and both spent well over $300 for a motherboard and cooling. One has a P6T and a D14 for 4GHz and the other has an EVGA E758. Initially bought a D14 based on my advice but didn't listen to my advice for the motherboard, so apparently D14s don't fit on E758s and he had to buy a Megahalems.

Yes. There is no question than an i7 hands down destroys any Phenom II when it comes to encoding and other heavily CPU-dependent stuff.

[gr1m]

Obviously I know how important gpus are for gaming purposes.  The problem I've had is with people using gaming benchmarks when comparing cpus.  If they had equal gpus, which would win?

The German review used equal GPUs. The point of the reviews I linked were to show this:

- With the same GPUs, there is no difference in CPU platform
- With the money you save with a cheaper CPU platform, you can get a better GPU
- Your cheap-CPU+expensive-GPU system now performs the same as the expensive-CPU+expensive-GPU platform, and performs better than the expensive-CPU+cheap-GPU platform in games

The GTX 260 guy is the perfect example. The poor bugger can't play BC2 smoothly. Shoulda' bought a Phenom II and a 5850. So what if your project takes an extra 20 minutes to complete.

[ch_123]

I remember the days when Intel or AMD releasing a new generation of chip actually counted for ****. Nowadays, there's only very certain things that benefit from faster CPUs, and unless you're gaming, the wait times on other CPU related things can be solved by the user going off to get a coffee.

Or at least that's how I see it...

[gr1m]

I remember the days when Intel or AMD releasing a new generation of chip actually counted for ****. Nowadays, there's only very certain things that benefit from faster CPUs, and unless you're gaming, the wait times on other CPU related things can be solved by the user going off to get a coffee.

Or at least that's how I see it...

What gets me these days is the widespread misuse of the word "multitasking". Watching Youtube while typing up an essay in Word and listening to music is not multitasking. Well, it is, but it's not the type of multitasking that requires people to buy 6-core processors or i7s with hyperthreading. An Atom can multitask those things.

What you really need i7s and 6-cores for are megatasking, i.e. doing multiple pieces of important, intensive **** at once. I can't name a thing because I don't really do important **** on my computers. Maybe like encoding two videos, ripping a CD and compiling a program at the same time while playing GTAIV on your second monitor. IDK.

[instantkamera]

What gets me these days is the widespread misuse of the word "multitasking". Watching Youtube while typing up an essay in Word and listening to music is not multitasking. Well, it is, but it's not the type of multitasking that requires people to buy 6-core processors or i7s with hyperthreading. An Atom can multitask those things.

What you really need i7s and 6-cores for are megatasking, i.e. doing multiple pieces of important, intensive **** at once. I can't name a thing because I don't really do important **** on my computers. Maybe like encoding two videos, ripping a CD and compiling a program at the same time while playing GTAIV on your second monitor. IDK.

(batch) photo processing, compiling software and heavy VM usage are up my alley.

[D-EJ915]

I've had tons of hard drives fail on me over the years and take sometimes years of work with them.  I've never had a psu fail and take any components with it, in 30 years of using, building, and maintaining other people's computers as well.

you never stop to think your **** power supplies kill your components and caused your amd processor issues?  I guess people without brains can't think so nevermind...

[hyperlinked]

the wait times on other CPU related things can be solved by the user going off to get a coffee.

Does this mean my next computer will come with a complimentary coffee card or year's supply of my favorite roast?

[chimera15]

The German review used equal GPUs. The point of the reviews I linked were to show this:

- With the same GPUs, there is no difference in CPU platform
- With the money you save with a cheaper CPU platform, you can get a better GPU
- Your cheap-CPU+expensive-GPU system now performs the same as the expensive-CPU+expensive-GPU platform, and performs better than the expensive-CPU+cheap-GPU platform in games

The GTX 260 guy is the perfect example. The poor bugger can't play BC2 smoothly. Shoulda' bought a Phenom II and a 5850. So what if your project takes an extra 20 minutes to complete.

Well that's interesting.  He can't play bc2 smoothly even with that rig?  Hmm....

[ch_123]

Does this mean my next computer will come with a complimentary coffee card or year's supply of my favorite roast?

If you have a Pentium 4 machine, your computer is the coffee machine.

Predictable Pentium 4 joke is predictable, I know.

[instantkamera]

If you have a Pentium 4 machine, your computer is the coffee machine.

I was going to say, I still have my old athlon tbird 1.4Ghz somewhere. Im sure I could mate a lian-li with a rancillio silvia and use the CPU as the boiler.

[gr1m]

Not at 2048x1152 with full AA and AF. GTX 260s aren't good cards by any current standards and those settings are just too high. I don't fancy my 4890s chances with it either but a 4890 does actually get scarily close to GTX 285 performance when everything is turned up at 2560x1600 in Crysis so who knows.

I was going to say, I still have my old athlon tbird 1.4Ghz somewhere. Im sure I could mate a lian-li with a rancillio silvia and use the CPU as the boiler.

That would probably be an eerily effective way of dissipating it's heat at the same time.

[chimera15]

Not at 2048x1152 with full AA and AF. GTX 260s aren't good cards by any current standards and those settings are just too high. I don't fancy my 4890s chances with it either but a 4890 does actually get scarily close to GTX 285 performance when everything is turned up at 2560x1600 in Crysis so who knows.



That would probably be an eerily effective way of dissipating it's heat at the same time.

Hmm, where do 4890s fall then? You think they're better than 260's? Cause it looks like I can get them for about 260 prices, around $110-120.  gtx285s are around $200 still.

[ch_123]

4890 competes with the GTX 275. GTX 260 is comparable with a low end 4870 IIRC.

[chimera15]

4890 competes with the GTX 275. GTX 260 is comparable with a low end 4870 IIRC.

So better right? lol

[gr1m]

A 4890 for $110 is a great idea. They're better than 5770s and [too] close to 5830s*.

*referring to the 5830's criticism of being too close to a 4890

[Phaedrus2129]

The 4890 beats the 5830 by a small margin.

I'd say the GTX260 and Radeon 4870 are still high end cards, just not if you want to play on 1920x1200 or up. The only game I can't max with my 4870 at 1680x1050 is Crysis.

[gr1m]

The 4890 beats the 5830 by a small margin.

I'd say the GTX260 and Radeon 4870 are still high end cards, just not if you want to play on 1920x1200 or up. The only game I can't max with my 4870 at 1680x1050 is Crysis.

No way? And the thing cost me $187 more than a year ago. God bless it's soul.