Author Topic: Spray Lubing switches - A guide  (Read 4633 times)

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Offline Leslieann

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Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« on: Sun, 23 August 2020, 06:46:01 »
Someone made a comment we need to make one of these so here it is.
If a mod could sticky this that would be great as we have had a few mentions of it lately.


DO NOT SPRAY LUBE SWITCHES.
Don't try brushing the stem from the outside with grease or oil either.



We do not care that some Youtuber showed it was okay, DO NOT DO IT.
Sprays are for use in places you can flush out contaminants and leave a lubricating coating like exposed hinges on a door or a bicycle chain. There is no way to flush contaminants from a switch. Plus, all that solvent, which is atomized more than the lube, may have just destroyed any lube in places you can't reach and is now breaking down and will further contaminate the switch as it does so. So while it may seem great now, it may be a whole lot worse in a few hours, days or weeks from now or it may be fine (much less likely).

As for brushing the stem from the outside with grease or oil, while this looks like an easy way to do it you have no idea what's on that stem or around the hole it passes through. What's the difference between this and taking it apart if you're lubing the same part? When you disassemble and lube you are brushing on lube and carrying away contaminants (switches are often new and clean as well), you also direct how much and where it goes (IMPORTANT!). By lubing outside in you are purposely pushing things in, you have no idea what else is being carried in (brush bits, dirt from the housing, etc..) and you have no way to direct where it goes once inside or how much, you are literally just shoving everything in and hoping.

Keep in mind I said may, it may be fine, but you're playing with fire. If you can afford to replace it or don't mind the cleanup, do what you want, just don't do this if you aren't prepared for the consequences. In most cases, most switches today are pretty good from the factory, lube doesn't instantly make a switch good or better. While there are some that benefit greatly others are just a waste of time and money to lube, you may want to ask before you bother. Personally, I think lubing stabs is far more universally satisfying than lubed switches but some switches do need lube.



What to do if you did this?
Unfortunately you don't have much in the way of options.
If it works, leave it. There's no guarantee it will work, fail or go bad, only odds. If it's working fine for now, leave it, just be aware it may come back to haunt you at some point.

If it does go bad, what are your options?
You can try an ultra sonic cleaner (if you have Monterey switches this is your only option), but at best you return to what it was when you bought it so it's a gamble, and since odds are you don't have one, especially one large enough, you could just apply that towards a new board.

To really fix this, you will need to open the switches (the very thing you tried to avoid), once open you will need to use contact cleaner on the contact leaf inside, something like Deoxit D5 would probably work (beware this is nasty stuff), be sure to douse every switch's internals good. Then clean the stem, spring and top housing with an ultra sonic cleaner, or a tooth brush and either warm soapy water (as hot as you can handle) or (preferably) some citrus cleaner (Goo Gone works), rinse, then either let it sit for a few days to air dry (one day will not be enough unless it's VERY hot and dry) or dunk them in isopropyl alcohol to displace the water then let them sit for a few hours. Now you can start lubing them the right way before reassembling. Then you get to hope nothing was damaged or else you did all this for nothing.

In other words, just replace it.
Seriously, even with hot swap this is easily 5+ hours of rather tedious work to do right plus drying time and you still need lube, contact cleaner and preferably something like Goo Gone. If you have to desolder this is an entire weekend worth of work plus some supplies for that. Call it an expensive lesson, but don't throw this out just yet, you can use this to learn to solder/desolder so you can get something even nicer or just install different switches.
« Last Edit: Wed, 02 September 2020, 22:28:34 by Leslieann »
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/hand milled Vortex case, custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, sound dampened,  Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs | GMMK TKL | Magicforce 68 | YMDK75 | KBT Race S L.E. | Das Pro (Costar model) | GH60 | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline _PixelNinja

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 23 August 2020, 08:25:32 »
#NoSpray

Offline jamster

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 23 August 2020, 08:31:50 »
I'm sure this will save people pain, time and money.

Though I do wonder... how many people are going to read this, then say to themselves "nah, I am sure those experts on YouTube must know what they are talking about" and go ahead anyway.


Offline ddrfraser1

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 23 August 2020, 08:45:21 »
Glad I asked  ;D

Plus, I think I figured out a way to open my Montereys anyway.

Offline Rob27shred

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 23 August 2020, 08:47:14 »
250167-0

Offline Sup

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 23 August 2020, 09:06:55 »
Can a mod pin this  :)
current
Filco Zero -  NOS Yellow Alps | Canoe R1 Gateron Red | AEK II JP Cream dampend |Filco Majestouch 2 Tex case Gateron Yellow | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev AO Serial 000171 | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev A1s|DZ60 OG Panda's with Fei spring and stem. | Sentraq S65_Plus OG Invyr Panda's | A17 Gateron Black TX 65G 3204 | Lubrigrante Wildcard Cherry MX silent blacks 3204 58.5G Springs | Rukia Everglide Tourmaline Blue 58.5G Springs | MGA Standard Greetech brown |
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Offline powwu

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 23 August 2020, 09:42:20 »
So true. I see people ruining their boards on the daily, hopefully this will help put a stop to it.

Offline Sup

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 00:41:37 »
Bump to get attention from moderators day 1  :)
current
Filco Zero -  NOS Yellow Alps | Canoe R1 Gateron Red | AEK II JP Cream dampend |Filco Majestouch 2 Tex case Gateron Yellow | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev AO Serial 000171 | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev A1s|DZ60 OG Panda's with Fei spring and stem. | Sentraq S65_Plus OG Invyr Panda's | A17 Gateron Black TX 65G 3204 | Lubrigrante Wildcard Cherry MX silent blacks 3204 58.5G Springs | Rukia Everglide Tourmaline Blue 58.5G Springs | MGA Standard Greetech brown |
Coming soon
Rest in peace Billy Herrington(William Glen Harold Herrington) 1969-2018
Rest in peace Byron Daniel 1989-2020

Offline Drakenocas

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 01:26:48 »
Yeah, I saw that video of that guy spraying lubing, a pretty well viewed enthusiast on YouTube, as well. Not huge,but they get a few thousand views on each video, and I was thinking to myself that too many people are:

1. Going to ruin their PCBs.
2. Destroy other property
3. Give themself cancer. 

Perhaps they deserve it if they're dumb enough to try spray lubing. 

I really wish the dude would remove that video, for real.  He may be able to do it and be happy with it, but I don't feel like most others will be happy with the results.   You have to be responsible for what you put out.

Offline envyy24

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 09:56:19 »
Thank you for saying what I wanted to say for a long time.

Offline ddrfraser1

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 10:18:25 »
Yeah, I saw that video of that guy spraying lubing, a pretty well viewed enthusiast on YouTube, as well. Not huge,but they get a few thousand views on each video, and I was thinking to myself that too many people are:

1. Going to ruin their PCBs.
2. Destroy other property
3. Give themself cancer. 

Perhaps they deserve it if they're dumb enough to try spray lubing. 

I really wish the dude would remove that video, for real.  He may be able to do it and be happy with it, but I don't feel like most others will be happy with the results.   You have to be responsible for what you put out.

I've been lubing switches the proper way for years but whenever I see a video with someone trying something new and it works well for them, I think, 'Hey, that's pretty cool, I want to try that.' But yeah, I wondered what this would do to my switches and boards. I knew if I asked Leslie I'd get a straight answer.  :eek: :thumb:

Offline Hipyo

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 19:13:08 »
I really have not seen any evidence of spray lubing in particular ruining boards and switches when done correctly, especially to the extent to which this post makes it seem. But if there is evidence that it does more harm than good I would be open to it. I would argue that any form of modding could ruin a part if done wrong, and that is not a reason to tell everyone to avoid it.
 
So while it may seem great now, it may be a whole lot worse in a few hours, days or weeks from now.
From what I have seen, and from the main person doing spray lubing who did research on it (:3ildcat on youtube) there are not any crazy long term effects to doing this process. I personally put out a video on spray lubing and have had only positive experiences with it. This does not mean it is totally harmless, so I did not recommend it in my video rather I just documented the process. However, I do think that if someone is adequately informed and uses the proper protective mask and gloves they should not feel discouraged. It has been proven to make switches feel and sound better for very little effort and that is its selling point. Obviously hand lubing is a superior process, but for some its okay that they might not want to take that route.   

Edit: I have since dabbled more with spray lubing and admit defeat.. the doing the wrong thing but getting the right results part applies here. Don't spray lube.
« Last Edit: Thu, 29 October 2020, 18:45:35 by Hipyo »

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 21:34:51 »
I really have not seen any evidence of spray lubing in particular ruining boards and switches when done correctly
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=107654.0

You're spraying blindly, how exactly is there a right and wrong way. Do you honestly think you aiming it at the side of the slider is stopping it from going anywhere else inside the switch?  You're delusional.


Yes, spray lube is lube and may be safe when used properly, the problem is and will remain that you have no idea what lube is in there. Is that solvent compatible? You have no idea. If you use a compatible lube/solvent, yes, all is well. Ever see what happens when it's not? It doesn't matter on a chain or hinge, you wash it all away with solvent, and if you miss any, you get it next time. You can't do that on a switch, the fact that it takes "1-3 days" for the solvent to evaporate tells you how sealed the mechanism is, if the solvent takes that long there's no chance of washing anything away.



I would argue that any form of modding could ruin a part if done wrong, and that is not a reason to tell everyone to avoid it.
You can damage a trace desoldering a switch, certain medications have side effects, however both were being done/used in the proper way.

In both cases the potential for issues outweighs the benefits.
In the case of spray lubing, you're simply HOPING it makes things better without knowing if it will help even if it works the way it should (not all switches benefit from lube).

From what I have seen, and from the main person doing spray lubing who did research on it (:3ildcat on youtube) there are not any crazy long term effects to doing this process. I personally put out a video on spray lubing and have had only positive experiences with it.

So all this is based on yours and a single youtuber's anecdotal evidence, that's not research it's "research".

"It worked for me so you must have done something wrong" is the rallying card for anyone who doesn't properly understand what they're doing. Even when you do something wrong you can still get a positive result, it doesn't make it right. Did either of you even bother to open a switch, let alone many and look at what happens? I'm going to guess no.

I'm not trying to trash you but you need to understand this is not right, any of it.
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/hand milled Vortex case, custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, sound dampened,  Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs | GMMK TKL | Magicforce 68 | YMDK75 | KBT Race S L.E. | Das Pro (Costar model) | GH60 | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline Hipyo

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 24 August 2020, 22:04:13 »
Edit: I have since dabbled more with spray lubing and admit defeat.. the doing the wrong thing but getting the right results part applies here. Don't spray lube.
« Last Edit: Thu, 29 October 2020, 18:45:50 by Hipyo »

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 00:04:16 »
That post you linked does not include spray lubing anywhere in it so I'm not sure what exactly you meant by linking it, there really is not much out there on spray lubing going wrong.
It wasn't spray lube but similar principle, the person lubed from the outside with no idea what was happening inside.


I think your hard-line no spray lubing approach is elitist and taking a more nuanced look at it might help the community explore more ways of enjoying the hobby in the ways that they prefer.   
This has nothing to do with being elitist it's about keeping people from making what could be a costly mistake. You want lower barriers of entry, great (!) but destroying someones board isn't going to help with that.

I'm pulling from decades of evidence based standardized lubrication practices. Not just keyboards, everything. Do you think we just decided on a brush and lube because it was convenient?

You're using anecdotal evidence and your "current pool" is but a teeny tiny sample. You have no research, few samples and goes against all standardized lubrication practices. And yes, I looked at that PDF you linked, it says nothing about compatibility with other lubricants only plastics and rubbers. The website says compatible with most but they also expect the solvent to wash everything away leaving a clean surface and then evaporate (quickly!), neither of which is happening inside a switch.

It's possible to do everything wrong and still get a positive result, that doesn't make it right or predictive of future outcomes.
« Last Edit: Tue, 25 August 2020, 01:58:47 by Leslieann »
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/hand milled Vortex case, custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, sound dampened,  Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs | GMMK TKL | Magicforce 68 | YMDK75 | KBT Race S L.E. | Das Pro (Costar model) | GH60 | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline jamster

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 00:35:31 »
@Hipyo I don't have the patience that Leslieanne has, so I will leave it at this:

What you decry as 'elitist' seems more a complaint that someone with vastly more experience in electronics does not agree with the assertions if someone with vastly... less experience. Citing some YouTuber who had a paid interest in clicks as an appeal to authority is a well known argument fallacy, so well know that it's got its own name in rhetoric. Very few of the more experienced people on GH agree that YouTube is a reliable authority, and reasons for this were already given in the link to the brush lube thread.

From what I have read of your posts, you simply don't understand what you're writing about. Totally random interjections about masks and gloves, along with the 'proper procedure'? Masks and gloves are not relevant when using these aerosol cans (eyewear might be prudent however), and there is no 'proper procedure' defined anywhere.

You need to be able to back up your arguments properly, beyond 'random popular guy on YouTube says so' and address the substantive points made by others. Otherwise cries of 'elitist' is nothing more than a petulant demand for respect or recognition.
« Last Edit: Tue, 25 August 2020, 00:46:34 by jamster »

Offline Sup

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 01:05:04 »
New people just like to follow what ever new youtuber pops up and does some "life" hacks for views. Guess what he doesn't care what happens to your board so long he gets the views and ad revenue he/she is content. I can't blame the new people since when they search up lubing you get as 3 and 4th result of "HOW TO LUBE YOUR SWITCHES WITH OUT DESOLDERING".

It may work but it may also leave wrong side effects of dust/dirt debree rubbing inside the switch after the lube has evaporated then the bad stuff will happen like getting a scratchy feeling.

I guess informing people of right ways to lube and how to fix the issue is seen as elitisms. I guess the old enthusiast only care about long term feel of our keyboards?
« Last Edit: Tue, 25 August 2020, 01:12:50 by Sup »
current
Filco Zero -  NOS Yellow Alps | Canoe R1 Gateron Red | AEK II JP Cream dampend |Filco Majestouch 2 Tex case Gateron Yellow | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev AO Serial 000171 | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev A1s|DZ60 OG Panda's with Fei spring and stem. | Sentraq S65_Plus OG Invyr Panda's | A17 Gateron Black TX 65G 3204 | Lubrigrante Wildcard Cherry MX silent blacks 3204 58.5G Springs | Rukia Everglide Tourmaline Blue 58.5G Springs | MGA Standard Greetech brown |
Coming soon
Rest in peace Billy Herrington(William Glen Harold Herrington) 1969-2018
Rest in peace Byron Daniel 1989-2020

Offline Hipyo

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 01:45:51 »
Edit: I have since dabbled more with spray lubing and admit defeat.. the doing the wrong thing but getting the right results part applies here. Don't spray lube.
« Last Edit: Thu, 29 October 2020, 18:46:07 by Hipyo »

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 03:09:37 »
I know you guys have significantly more experience, all I am saying is your claims that they ruin switches consistently are completely baseless so acting as if it is ruining peoples keyboards is bogus. Sure it might happen, but it is not as if it is an instant death sentence for your board.
I never said it would 100% ruin the board.

Please see the last line of my last post:
It's possible to do everything wrong and still get a positive result, that doesn't make it right or predictive of future outcomes.

On the topic of it might leave residue that leaves it feeling worse, I would love the evidence for that as well! The solvent does not need to flush anything out if there is nothing that needs to be flushed out in the first place right?
You are aware the factory puts some lube in switches right and that solvent is there to break down contaminants and old lubricant so it can be flushed out? Where is all of that going to go? It's not going to evaporate with the solvent.

Dust and debree will get in your switch if you lubed it by hand as well.
You're right,
Dust and debris can get in when you hand lube but by using a brush you remove and push things into places that don't matter. Instead of being in the slider it may get clumped with a bit of extra lube on the underside of the stem where it becomes harmless (which by the way is also part of a lubricants job during application). Where did it wind up when you spray lubed, the contacts?

Also there is no facts or evidence that it would ruin your board long term, other than a feeling based on experience?
Ignore experience at your own peril.

If someone is enjoying themselves in a hobby we should not gate-keep them. I am not claiming elitism because someone disagrees with my opinion, which I am open to changing if presented with some real facts. I am claiming elitism because of the stance being taken that something is instantly bad because it isn't the standardized practice.
No one is gatekeeping, I didn't come over and rip the can from your hand, you're just angry because someone told you "NO."
« Last Edit: Tue, 25 August 2020, 03:11:15 by Leslieann »
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/hand milled Vortex case, custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, sound dampened,  Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs | GMMK TKL | Magicforce 68 | YMDK75 | KBT Race S L.E. | Das Pro (Costar model) | GH60 | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline jamster

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 04:02:47 »
The inability to identify nuance in this thread is mindblowing. All because people didn't welcome another Youtube video about a quick and dirty keyboard 'life hack' with open arms.

Offline envyy24

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 06:08:13 »
Since when recommending good practice gate keeping? In fact it is not only good but the best practice so far, any one offering you spray lubing service???

Offline ddrfraser1

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 08:22:58 »
The inability to identify nuance in this thread is mindblowing. All because people didn't welcome another Youtube video about a quick and dirty keyboard 'life hack' with open arms.

Well more it came about because people saw the video and started asking if this was a good idea. Iíve got some switches and boards that are damn near impossible to get apart so I wondered if this could be a good solution. The steel series apex pro is one I canít figure out how to open. Monterey switches are others that are difficult but not impossible. I would never consider spray lubing ordinary switches and I certainly wonít try it on the difficult to open switches either.

However, after reading the hilarious reactions to this thread, all I want to do is get out my discarded cherry switches and spray lube Ďem just so I can confirm Ďoh yeah, it totally ruins themí

A point on the youtuber. Pretty sure he says in the video that these are just crappy switches on a crappy board and he is just experimenting ie, he doesnít recommend it. I think thatís great. We need more experimentation. We learn as much or more from what doesnít work.

Another point, he also introduced me to a method of applying dielectric grease to stabs with a dental pick/brush thing. Again, this is an intentional short cut on a cheap board and heís not really promoting it as an alternative to properly lubing stabs. However, again, this was the perfect thing for me to try on my stubborn, apparently unopenable steel series apex pro. Link to results:


Iíll probably do it to another board that I built years ago before I learned about lubing stabs as I canít be bothered to desolder the whole thing.

Offline jamster

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 08:52:26 »
The inability to identify nuance in this thread is mindblowing. All because people didn't welcome another Youtube video about a quick and dirty keyboard 'life hack' with open arms.

Well more it came about because people saw the video and started asking if this was a good idea. Iíve got some switches and boards that are damn near impossible to get apart so I wondered if this could be a good solution. The steel series apex pro is one I canít figure out how to open. Monterey switches are others that are difficult but not impossible. I would never consider spray lubing ordinary switches and I certainly wonít try it on the difficult to open switches either.

However, after reading the hilarious reactions to this thread, all I want to do is get out my discarded cherry switches and spray lube Ďem just so I can confirm Ďoh yeah, it totally ruins themí

A point on the youtuber. Pretty sure he says in the video that these are just crappy switches on a crappy board and he is just experimenting ie, he doesnít recommend it. I think thatís great. We need more experimentation. We learn as much or more from what doesnít work.

Another point, he also introduced me to a method of applying dielectric grease to stabs with a dental pick/brush thing. Again, this is an intentional short cut on a cheap board and heís not really promoting it as an alternative to properly lubing stabs. However, again, this was the perfect thing for me to try on my stubborn, apparently unopenable steel series apex pro. Link to results:


Iíll probably do it to another board that I built years ago before I learned about lubing stabs as I canít be bothered to desolder the whole thing.

I don't think that anyone has reasonably said "OMG you will totally 100% roooon ur switches," it's more like "this is really not a good idea if you value your board, because you can't control it, you are likely to screw things up long term, and if you do, it's a total write off." Most boards are not suddenly 'made' through lubrication. It's a mild improvement with a finite lifespan- it's not like lube stays in place for decades, it just rubs away eventually. The risk/reward is really questionable.

If I had a board I didn't care about, I'd be willing to give it a shot too just to see what happened. I would fully expect it to feel better (well, smoother, I would not have high hopes for tactility, which is something I value a lot). But I also wouldn't insist 'gatekeeper elitest because you don't agree with me.'

I agree that experimentation is good. But so is reasoning, and an understanding of the principles involved. Basic things like knowing what a solvent actually is, and what it's going to do to existing lubrication is, are also pretty key. Latching onto external authority over an an effort to understand (in this case very, very simple) principles is never a good thing.


Another point, he also introduced me to a method of applying dielectric grease to stabs with a dental pick/brush thing. Again, this is an intentional short cut on a cheap board and heís not really promoting it as an alternative to properly lubing stabs. However, again, this was the perfect thing for me to try on my stubborn, apparently unopenable steel series apex pro. Link to results:

That was an 8 second video, was it what you meant to post? It only showed him pressing some keys.

I've always lubed stabs the lazy way- just take the keys off and use a syringe to jam some grease in there. Stabs are not at all delicate like switch internals so I am not worried about extremely tight tolerances or foreign materials (grease doesn't flow like lube). And if I apply too much, it's pretty easy to clean out.
« Last Edit: Tue, 25 August 2020, 08:55:25 by jamster »

Offline ddrfraser1

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 09:24:07 »
That was an 8 second video, was it what you meant to post? It only showed him pressing some keys.

That was me. Just showing the results.

As far as lubing stabs, I like to grease the sliders with teflon grease, bandaid mod the plate, and clip the feet. These things are worth additional effort.
« Last Edit: Tue, 25 August 2020, 09:25:44 by ddrfraser1 »

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 21:33:33 »
Well more it came about because people saw the video and started asking if this was a good idea.

We had one person try shoving lube down the sides, someone linked a video, two people asked if it was safe and then I got private messages asking about it as well.

That may not seem like a lot but it all happened in only about 2 weeks.
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/hand milled Vortex case, custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, sound dampened,  Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs | GMMK TKL | Magicforce 68 | YMDK75 | KBT Race S L.E. | Das Pro (Costar model) | GH60 | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 22:09:33 »
I don't think that anyone has reasonably said "OMG you will totally 100% roooon ur switches," it's more like "this is really not a good idea if you value your board, because you can't control it, you are likely to screw things up long term, and if you do, it's a total write off."
This is the problem, it's a gamble and a one way trip.

Risk and experimentation is fine, but who's most likely to do this? It's not someone like me, it's most likely someone young, probably spent their allowance or birthday money on it and looking for a cheap and easy way to do this.

I would also expect someone to show something more than just "it worked for me" before spreading it around.



If I had a board I didn't care about, I'd be willing to give it a shot too just to see what happened. I would fully expect it to feel better (well, smoother, I would not have high hopes for tactility, which is something I value a lot).

I agree that experimentation is good. But so is reasoning, and an understanding of the principles involved. 
I'm all for experimentation (Jailhouse Blues?).

Why use a whole board?
All anyone needs to do is to grab a spare switch, spray it, then open it up and take a look inside, it wont change the contamination aspect (which is the bigger issue and more difficult to see) but you could as least verify the lube went where it should and maybe where the solvent went. As far as I can tell none of these guys have even done that, which to me is the most basic "research", I really was hoping one of them would do this and yet none did which tells me exactly how interested they are in "research" and just want to do it the easy way.


I also would have done that before YOLO'ing an entire board and posting it online.
This also hints at where their priorities lie.
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/hand milled Vortex case, custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, sound dampened,  Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs | GMMK TKL | Magicforce 68 | YMDK75 | KBT Race S L.E. | Das Pro (Costar model) | GH60 | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline Drakenocas

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 22:41:02 »
I really have not seen any evidence of spray lubing in particular ruining boards and switches when done correctly, especially to the extent to which this post makes it seem. But if there is evidence that it does more harm than good I would be open to it. I would argue that any form of modding could ruin a part if done wrong, and that is not a reason to tell everyone to avoid it.
 
So while it may seem great now, it may be a whole lot worse in a few hours, days or weeks from now.
From what I have seen, and from the main person doing spray lubing who did research on it (:3ildcat on youtube) there are not any crazy long term effects to doing this process. I personally put out a video on spray lubing and have had only positive experiences with it. This does not mean it is totally harmless, so I did not recommend it in my video rather I just documented the process. However, I do think that if someone is adequately informed and uses the proper protective mask and gloves they should not feel discouraged. It has been proven to make switches feel and sound better for very little effort and that is its selling point. Obviously hand lubing is a superior process, but for some its okay that they might not want to take that route.

To be fair, I don't worry about you guys that have a good idea of what you're doing.  You're all adults and can do whatever you like.  However, I worry about the younger people, who don't have a clue.  Some of them are adults too.  My kid actually showed me the :3ildcat video, and asked if we could do it with his Ducky.  Of course, it just didn't look like a good idea to me, but he's impatiently waiting on me to desolder and stick the lubed reds back in and resolder (time, if we only had more time).  What I fear is that if I hadn't had talked to him about it, he would have just done it in the floor in his bedroom without two thoughts, probably ruining my flooring. He is 17, so safety and technical cleanliness aren't top priorities at this stage in life. 

Is spray lubing for me, no.  I don't want to tell anyone what they can't do, though I don't think it should be done, but I think it should only be fair that if you're doing something like spray lubing and show it off to the world on a social media platform, then you should explain responsibly that it should be done outside, with some protective gear (eye goggles and a cheap painter's mask), and point out what materials to use to clean the PCB afterwards, or to a link on cleaning PCBs.   

Offline baysic

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 25 August 2020, 23:57:07 »
Any recommendation on plate mount soldered in keyboard? Like filco for example soldered in and switch top is not openable too.
How do I make my cherry red slippery smooth. lol.

Offline Sup

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 26 August 2020, 11:10:32 »
Any recommendation on plate mount soldered in keyboard? Like filco for example soldered in and switch top is not openable too.
How do I make my cherry red slippery smooth. lol.

Just keep typing on it aka breaking them in and they will become smooth over time. Or desolder and open the switches and lube the friction points.
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Offline ddrfraser1

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 02 September 2020, 09:03:12 »
Looks like he's doubling down.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 02 September 2020, 22:31:26 »
Did some minor reformating, corrected some errors, it's a little less harsh.

I still do not recommend doing this at all.
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/hand milled Vortex case, custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, sound dampened,  Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs | GMMK TKL | Magicforce 68 | YMDK75 | KBT Race S L.E. | Das Pro (Costar model) | GH60 | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #31 on: Sat, 05 September 2020, 13:46:15 »
Ok,  come on. It will only take like 2 hours to do the whole thing.   (desolder and lube)
Unless you're severely  time strapped, it's not even that hard.
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #32 on: Sat, 05 September 2020, 22:03:41 »
Under 2 hours for a switch swap using a desoldering gun, sure, I can see that.

Under 2 hours (for a noob) to desolder with a $30 iron and some cheap braid, opening every switch and scrubbing out the silicone lube, drying, re-lubing, reassembling then re-soldering. Not on your life.


Anyone with the equipment to do this quick probably isn't going to spray lube and you're not the person this post is aimed at. Also, have you not seen the posts about people messing up installing switches? it happens all the time and that's the easy part.
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/hand milled Vortex case, custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, sound dampened,  Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs | GMMK TKL | Magicforce 68 | YMDK75 | KBT Race S L.E. | Das Pro (Costar model) | GH60 | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline jamster

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 06 September 2020, 02:22:42 »
Ok,  come on. It will only take like 2 hours to do the whole thing.   (desolder and lube)
Unless you're severely  time strapped, it's not even that hard.

No freaking way.

Do you think that people who are thinking "hey jamming a spray nozzle into my keyboard is a good idea because YouTube" own quality soldering stations and mechanised desoldering guns? And have experience using them?

I've tried to desolder a board using wick and a manual pump. I'm done two boards that way and I'm never doing that again. My time is far more valuable than that.
« Last Edit: Sun, 06 September 2020, 02:26:21 by jamster »

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #34 on: Sun, 06 September 2020, 03:11:52 »
By the way, something I don't think people understand, Silicone is a MOTHER to remove.

It repels water and soap, citrus will help but it's not going to dissolve it and wash it away, it more or less allows you to scrub it away is all. Have fun scrubbing it from the springs and stems and all those little nooks and crannies. It's fantastic stuff when it's someplace you want it, it's HORRIBLE when it's someplace you don't.
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/hand milled Vortex case, custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, sound dampened,  Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs | GMMK TKL | Magicforce 68 | YMDK75 | KBT Race S L.E. | Das Pro (Costar model) | GH60 | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline Sup

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 07 September 2020, 07:07:11 »
Ok,  come on. It will only take like 2 hours to do the whole thing.   (desolder and lube)
Unless you're severely  time strapped, it's not even that hard.

No freaking way.

Do you think that people who are thinking "hey jamming a spray nozzle into my keyboard is a good idea because YouTube" own quality soldering stations and mechanised desoldering guns? And have experience using them?

I've tried to desolder a board using wick and a manual pump. I'm done two boards that way and I'm never doing that again. My time is far more valuable than that.

Depends on what solder pump though. With the Engineer SS-02 one pump for one solder best solder pump i have ever gotten can desolder under 1 hour watching videos or something and chill out.
current
Filco Zero -  NOS Yellow Alps | Canoe R1 Gateron Red | AEK II JP Cream dampend |Filco Majestouch 2 Tex case Gateron Yellow | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev AO Serial 000171 | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev A1s|DZ60 OG Panda's with Fei spring and stem. | Sentraq S65_Plus OG Invyr Panda's | A17 Gateron Black TX 65G 3204 | Lubrigrante Wildcard Cherry MX silent blacks 3204 58.5G Springs | Rukia Everglide Tourmaline Blue 58.5G Springs | MGA Standard Greetech brown |
Coming soon
Rest in peace Billy Herrington(William Glen Harold Herrington) 1969-2018
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Offline JianYang

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #36 on: Mon, 07 September 2020, 07:42:54 »
I read the title and thought - must be a ****post, there is no way. Then I saw the author and thought, okay, maybe I'm missing something...

Thanks for the entertainment!

Offline Darthbaggins

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Re: Spray Lubing switches - A guide
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 07 October 2020, 14:59:18 »
I know of one Youtuber who has done this and I know he's added to use spray at your own risk and that there is a chance of damaging something - they also note opening and manually lubing the switch properly is the best and safest way to do it.   Most of the boards I've seen him spray lube are cheap enough to warrant the science project. 
I'm still for learning to solder and de-solder, they are great things to learn and not really difficult to do so - also in some cases therapeutic.  Also taking apart a switch can teach you alot of it's inner workings so you can understand it more. 
Why take a "short cut" that could kill your $100+ board over spending the time and research on learning to do it right the first time - I hate having to go back a re-do a job/project and want to get it right the first time and be done with it.  You have people with far more experience and have gone before you and learned this, might want to listen to them - I know I do.