Author Topic: Razer Mechanical? (Read 246446 times)

Arc'xer · « **Reply #450 on:** Mon, 27 September 2010, 01:14:34 »

Quote from: v193r;227159

why did razer choose cherry blues? they said they did a test and conclude its the best gaming switch. its far from wat ive heard. i can imagine a black widow at lan. expect some one to get stabbed. i find the click to be annoying. plus when ur gaming with headphones you dont heard much of wat is outside so wat is the point.

Quote from: Arc'xer;214706

Blues can work for gaming though the action is noticeably delayed if your used to other switches like brown or linear. But they work, the biggest problem is the noise is unnerving for gaming in a need quiet to listen to enemies around or music. For typing it's fine and enjoyable but that individualistic click, click, click does become annoying with the irregularity of key actions during gaming.

But I think the blues have that "Fun Factor". Although it does make it like "Oh mechanical = old = noisy, double-edged saying". I still think people would prefer it as a first buy or as well let's see if it really is THAT different from a run of the mill membrane dome. So in a way the blues do put out an impression of difference.

But then that just raises a question if razer is selling the blues to build up interest. And later sell other switches and maybe go so far as to say these are superior to blues and this and that and basically resell the same boards with different switches to the same who bought the blues thinking this new switch makes them better.

Not saying it won't, blues can be annoying but seems very, VERY strange they would choose the blues. If they spent THAT many years researching then they obviously weren't looking too well into it.

Edit: It could also be that maybe razer is trying to get into a mass market sell i.e. try and reach media users and business as silly as it sounds. Because they did add a lot of macro features from reading on the keyboard. So maybe they are on an underlying "gaming", they are also marketing to other markets to expand sales with the blues. Or for those who want a flashy looking keyboard despite not gaming or anything.

This is my best guess as to why. But really no one knows but whoever came up with the decision to use them.

What's more puzzling is Razer using NMB "Space Invader" switches as the diagram for their show case. That's even more strange than cherry mx blues, honestly. Blues aren't horrible, many have put in their own personal story on them but NMBs are a in a completely other category when it comes to switches.

Moogle Stiltzkin · « **Reply #451 on:** Mon, 27 September 2010, 01:40:40 »

i've read that cherry blues have mix reviews by gamers. Some are fine with it, and some just hate it :X

Anyway the true worth of the keyboard may be the flexibility of setting up macros. To bad it's not fully NKRO :/ as a gaming keyboard they should take that more seriously.

The easy method to enable/disable the windows key i find is genius. Yeah sure you can pluck out the windows key, but it will look ugly. Also a pain opening up the keyboard and putting on the key lock.

Aesthetically from the screenshots it looks nice.

But durability ? how long will those keys last after wear and tear gaming hard on it, and those lights ?

washuai · « **Reply #452 on:** Mon, 27 September 2010, 01:59:00 »

Durability - the legends will go, but the keys will still work longer, than other Razer boards, as long as people are bathing them in liquids. The lights, probably just as long as other Razer backlit boards. One wouldn't expect them to change their LED supplier.
The real question is whether folks will understand getting their board serviced (new key set, legend stickers, switch replacement, etc.), rather than buy a new one, when something happens, to get the most out of their investment in a mechanical board.

elbowglue · « **Reply #453 on:** Mon, 27 September 2010, 02:52:23 »

Thanks for the awesome review tofurkeymeister.

Quote from: Tofurkeymeister;227115

Despite apperaing to be cherry blue switches,when I used the Rip-O-Meter tool, I got a measurement of 60g (12 nickels) on the "F" key, "[" key, and the spacebar! This is intriguing, given that the cherry blue switch is designed to actuate at 50g.

I don't think cherry blues actually actuate at 50grams, I have found them to actuate between 55-60grams according to my ripometer testing:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=8779&highlight=cherry+green+grams&page=4

laden3 · « **Reply #454 on:** Mon, 27 September 2010, 03:07:58 »

Quote from: Arc'xer;227162

This is my best guess as to why. But really no one knows but whoever came up with the decision to use them.

What's more puzzling is Razer using NMB "Space Invader" switches as the diagram for their show case. That's even more strange than cherry mx blues, honestly. Blues aren't horrible, many have put in their own personal story on them but NMBs are a in a completely other category when it comes to switches.

Because one of the Razer guys googled "mechanical keyboard", clicked on the first link, scrolled to the "mechanical switch" section and "Ahh! thats the diagram we want."

Findecanor · « **Reply #455 on:** Mon, 27 September 2010, 05:03:41 »

Quote from: a_fluffy_kitten;227125

lol

I LOL:ed too.

Or could the Razer be a collectors item down the road? ... ha!

Senor_Cartmenez · « **Reply #456 on:** Mon, 27 September 2010, 07:56:50 »

Quote from: a_fluffy_kitten;227125

lol

I guess that's so when you hand the keyboard down to your grandchildren they know it's not one of those cheap imitation Razers.

nice one fluffy stick it to the man

NewbieOneKenobi · « **Reply #457 on:** Mon, 27 September 2010, 10:35:44 »

Quote from: Tofurkeymeister;227115

Overall, I have to say that the Razer BlackWidow is a high quality, extremely functional product, especially given the $80 asking price. The apparent pad printing process raises concerns about the durability of the lettering, but at a price of $80 I would be hard beat to find a higher quality product. The Razer BlackWidow is definately worth a look for those looking to enter the mechanical keyboard game.

What about typing on it, considering it's a blue switch keyboard? How does typing feel and, more importantly, work out?

Tofurkeymeister · « **Reply #458 on:** Mon, 27 September 2010, 15:21:50 »

Quote

ASX (diagonal move and comms)
WDE (diagonal move and open door)
SDC (diagonal move and try to crouch)
WAQ (diagonal move and toss grenade)
CTRL-AQ (crawling and toss grenade)
ESDF variations with other keys (for ESDF players)
ARROW KEY cluster and a bunch of other keys (for you lefties)
CAPSLOCK-LSHIFT-S If you using the Capslock for CTRL this particular key combo can be a pain while doing some general software. Interestingly enough this key combo PASSES on Unicomp Spacesavers. Don’t assume the behavior of all 2KRO keyboards are the same. In this case Unicomp must use a different matrix to pick up the Windows keys and so it fails WAX, a combo that passes in the IBM Model M.

All work except CTRL-AQ.

2 key rollover on the arrow keys.

Space bar doesn't effect rollover much when compared to without spacebar.

And... well, I can't test everything. It has better n-key than a typical keyboard, but it is definitely not n-key and optimization is pretty much limited to the WASD and equivalent clusters, excluding the arrow keys.

Here are some vids, sorry for the low quality, crappy point and shoot:

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Also, typing is what I guess you would expect from a cherry blue, in my opinion it would make a better typing than gaming keyboard.

Finally, I suppose that it is laser engraved, especially when I look at it under magnification.

vicariouscheese · « **Reply #459 on:** Mon, 27 September 2010, 15:39:19 »

i really wanted a filco tenkeyless otaku with brown switches... but given the pricing of this board and the current unavailability of said filco at elitekeyboards....

i never thought id see the day where a razer keyboard was worth the money :O ive liked and used razer keyboards before, but i always knew i was paying a crapload for the logo

Ekaros · « **Reply #460 on:** Mon, 27 September 2010, 16:50:34 »

Yep, a premium priced product with "premium" parts, but then they let it down... I kinda expected those KROs, but not that bad...

a_fluffy_kitten · « **Reply #461 on:** Mon, 27 September 2010, 16:53:42 »

Quote from: ripster;227360

It's really too bad Razer didn't put the $1 of diodes into the the $129 version

What's a Certificate of Authenticity worth these days?

laden3 · « **Reply #462 on:** Tue, 28 September 2010, 20:12:23 »

Quote from: ripster;227873

She looks bored on those rubber domes and is thinking to herself, "When is that nerd at the end getting off the Black Widow?"
Show Image

Flat, probably a he.

Tofurkeymeister · « **Reply #463 on:** Wed, 29 September 2010, 13:03:19 »

Quote from: ripster;227402

It doesn't look bad to me at all.

Yet some people on OCN still hate on it because its a Razer. Sure, it's not the BEST MECHANICAL KEYBOARD EVER, but it isn't BAD. One might be better off getting the Rosewill mechanical, but the BlackWidow is still pretty decent for the price.

didjamatic · « **Reply #464 on:** Wed, 29 September 2010, 13:57:52 »

This has prob been discussed, don't flame me if it has but are the keys double shot black/translucent or do they use the sticker type system that Deck uses for their keys?

Tofurkeymeister · « **Reply #465 on:** Wed, 29 September 2010, 14:13:58 »

Quote from: didjamatic;228115

This has prob been discussed, don't flame me if it has but are the keys double shot black/translucent or do they use the sticker type system that Deck uses for their keys?

Laser etched it seems:

I think the process involves etching into the plastic, then laying paint in the depression. Or something like that. It is more durable than pad printing, but not as beast as double-shot keys.

SirClickAlot · « **Reply #466 on:** Thu, 30 September 2010, 12:50:49 »

My Review

SirClickAlot · « **Reply #467 on:** Thu, 30 September 2010, 13:36:01 »

Quote from: ripster;228454

Where did you buy it?
Show Image

I bought it at razerzone.

By the way : it was pure agony to replace that spacebar.....

Regards.

didjamatic · « **Reply #468 on:** Thu, 30 September 2010, 14:10:27 »

Thanks for the info on keys, next time I'll RTFW.

Even though I touch type I like the idea of backlit keyboards - or even LED switches with regular caps so you just get light from beneath the caps.

mrblond · « **Reply #469 on:** Thu, 30 September 2010, 14:28:56 »

Has this board been released? I see that its still listed as pre order.

mrblond · « **Reply #470 on:** Thu, 30 September 2010, 15:18:08 »

Everyone hates us

well, bugger all. If it was available i would order one from Razer but i am thinking I will wait until Amazon gets them that way i have a easy return if its rubbish.

mrblond · « **Reply #471 on:** Fri, 01 October 2010, 19:47:52 »

Nice! im still waffling between getting this or a deck. The deck boards just seem much better built and the razers are so hit or miss quality wise

WhiteRice · « **Reply #472 on:** Fri, 01 October 2010, 22:59:43 »

Wow, that's pretty good...

MissileMike · « **Reply #473 on:** Sat, 02 October 2010, 09:29:49 »

That sure was fast. Personally, I'd much rather have the Rosewill filco clone that newegg is selling. Supposedly will be the same price on Oct 11.

ch_123 · « **Reply #474 on:** Sat, 02 October 2010, 09:35:45 »

Quote from: Tofurkeymeister;228125

I think the process involves etching into the plastic, then laying paint in the depression. Or something like that. It is more durable than pad printing, but not as beast as double-shot keys.

Very much depends on how well it is done. The lasered keys on the Das are quite well known for wearing off quite quickly with certain people.

Moogle Stiltzkin · « **Reply #475 on:** Sat, 02 October 2010, 18:41:32 »

Quote from: mrblond;228825

Nice! im still waffling between getting this or a deck. The deck boards just seem much better built and the razers are so hit or miss quality wise

Oddly the deck and razer keyboard say their professional gaming keyboards, yet they don't do full NKRO.

The Deck does, however the oddity about it is that you only get full NKRO using the native PS2. the native USB using a USB to PS2 adapter won't work, yet Filco Majest touch and Cherry g80-3494 can ....

Ekaros · « **Reply #476 on:** Sun, 03 October 2010, 04:35:37 »

Quote from: ripster;229150

Not a biggy. The Deck USB's 6KRO is fine. Really. I'm sure of it. Positive.
Show Image

The Razer 2KRO you might want to wait on a bit for further testing if you are really concerned. Cheap bastards should have added the $1 worth of diodes to a $130 model though.

On both models. On other hand then they couldn't hit X9.90, hmm why not then go for x4.99... My main issue is those guys being cheap on this one. They advertise premium switches and such, but then do let downs like this...

Boozebeard · « **Reply #477 on:** Sun, 03 October 2010, 06:17:39 »

Can someone just give me a quick overview of this board and whether it would be a good purchase for a gamer who has never used a mechanical board before?

I appreciate all this information is probably in the thread but I really don't want to trawl through the 40 pages

wtf no nkey? >:C

ironman31 · « **Reply #478 on:** Sun, 03 October 2010, 19:54:45 »

Don't even bother getting the Black Widdow. Keep buying Filco.

At least that's what the pro Starcraft II players are using

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=157888

I started a thread in the off topic section about it

Tofurkeymeister · « **Reply #479 on:** Sun, 03 October 2010, 20:23:47 »

Quote from: ironman31;229415

Don't even bother getting the Black Widdow. Keep buying Filco.

...unless you don't want to blow $120 on a keyboard where the only real benefit is NKRO. Oh, and a shiny Filco badge.

P.S. But if you want cherry brown, the Filco is the only logical choice.

P.P.S. And of course, Filco's are high quality. I am simply trying to say that while they are likely worth it, not everyone wants to spend $120 on a keyboard when they can get a decently high quality BlackWidow for a much lower price.

ironman31 · « **Reply #480 on:** Sun, 03 October 2010, 21:21:18 »

lol, wasn't trying to put down the Black Widdow. Just lightly making fun of the hype in finding "the best gaming keyboard".. since there really isn't one, it's all in preference.

Tofurkeymeister · « **Reply #481 on:** Sun, 03 October 2010, 21:41:38 »

Quote from: ironman31;229439

lol, wasn't trying to put down the Black Widdow. Just lightly making fun of the hype in finding "the best gaming keyboard".. since there really isn't one, it's all in preference.

Yeah, that's true.

Arc'xer · « **Reply #482 on:** Sun, 03 October 2010, 22:12:25 »

Quote from: ironman31;229415

Don't even bother getting the Black Widdow. Keep buying Filco.

At least that's what the pro Starcraft II players are using

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=157888

I started a thread in the off topic section about it

After skimming through that I have no idea why those posts are even bothered to be posted majority of the people in there are gonna be shocked at the prices and stuck in a state of disbelief and wonder what is the point. Seems like every few posts a person pops up and is like WTF.

It's funny, that guy who won the tournament didn't have a Topre. Because then people would really be ****ting themselves at the price and wonder why. Or better yet a HHKB, that keyboard always seems to make people go WTF.

And as for the whole NKRO thing, it's not about hitting every goddamn key. It's about having a redundant system to allow the keyboard to ignore various key issues anywhere along the board.

If people are buying a keyboard at EKB and are paying THAT much does it really kill you just to pay an extra 20 dollars. I mean if you buy a keyboard this expensive you'd expect your monies worth, right?

Do people really find it that bad they have to debate the issue, if someone buys a keyboard from Razer with anti-ghosting only to find out it's optimized to WASD cluster only that's acceptable, but 20 dollars worth of diodes is not?

Tofurkeymeister · « **Reply #483 on:** Sun, 03 October 2010, 22:53:36 »

Quote from: Arc'xer;229450

After skimming through that I have no idea why those posts are even bothered to be posted majority of the people in there are gonna be shocked at the prices and stuck in a state of disbelief and wonder what is the point. Seems like every few posts a person pops up and is like WTF.

It's funny, that guy who won the tournament didn't have a Topre. Because then people would really be ****ting themselves at the price and wonder why. Or better yet a HHKB, that keyboard always seems to make people go WTF.

And as for the whole NKRO thing, it's not about hitting every goddamn key. It's about having a redundant system to allow the keyboard to ignore various key issues anywhere along the board.

If people are buying a keyboard at EKB and are paying THAT much does it really kill you just to pay an extra 20 dollars. I mean if you buy a keyboard this expensive you'd expect your monies worth, right?

Do people really find it that bad they have to debate the issue, if someone buys a keyboard from Razer with anti-ghosting only to find out it's optimized to WASD cluster only that's acceptable, but 20 dollars worth of diodes is not?

A filco is $40 more than the $80 Razer. Also, most people won't care about NKRO (the sad truth), and those that do can just get a Filco. Everyone's happy.

Arc'xer · « **Reply #484 on:** Mon, 04 October 2010, 00:17:18 »

Quote from: Tofurkeymeister;229460

A filco is $40 more than the $80 Razer. Also, most people won't care about NKRO (the sad truth), and those that do can just get a Filco. Everyone's happy.

Damn that's right 40, misjudged the situation on those thinking of specifically the Filco.

That's true but I can't help but think that there is a bit of a disservice towards gaming from Razer for not including NKRO. Maybe for some it's a non-issue but it shouldn't really an issue of whether it happens, it's an issue of never happening.

Senor_Cartmenez · « **Reply #485 on:** Mon, 04 October 2010, 04:16:04 »

Quote from: ironman31;229415

Don't even bother getting the Black Widdow. Keep buying Filco.

At least that's what the pro Starcraft II players are using

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=157888

I started a thread in the off topic section about it

If you scroll down a bit in the thread, a guy is asking "what kind of apple does he use?"

I lol'd

ironman31 · « **Reply #486 on:** Mon, 04 October 2010, 10:47:58 »

I don't know if anyone really watches starcraft tournaments, but he RAPED in those Finals matches.

Senor_Cartmenez · « **Reply #487 on:** Mon, 04 October 2010, 11:00:54 »

I'd watch way more tournaments if they were casted properly.

I have stumbled over HD Starcraft and that dude casts man. Others just don't compare, they are either boring or annoying (like husky).

Shame that guy doesn't cast finals series...

zefrer · « **Reply #488 on:** Mon, 04 October 2010, 11:40:17 »

Quote from: Senor_Cartmenez;229584

I'd watch way more tournaments if they were casted properly.

I have stumbled over HD Starcraft and that dude casts man. Others just don't compare, they are either boring or annoying (like husky).

Shame that guy doesn't cast finals series...

Small correction, is not _allowed_ to cast finals series

AFAIK, finals series in Korea are not casted in english at all, the corporation running them does not allow anyone to cast their matches except themselves.

Fwiffo · « **Reply #489 on:** Mon, 04 October 2010, 13:41:05 »

Quote from: zefrer;229601

Small correction, is not _allowed_ to cast finals series AFAIK, finals series in Korea are not casted in english at all, the corporation running them does not allow anyone to cast their matches except themselves.

Actually, it was cast in English as well. The casters were Tasteless and Artosis, who are both much better players and casters than HD or Husky.

mrblond · « **Reply #490 on:** Mon, 04 October 2010, 14:21:47 »

Quote from: ripster;229615

So.....

Anybody ordered a Razer yet?

I am still on the fence. The Filco has everything I want as far as a keyboard except its not back lit. I am not much of a touch typist and I need to see meh keys! The razer has so much needless crap on it like the extra keys. It just makes it take up more space on my already cluttered desk.

mrblond · « **Reply #491 on:** Mon, 04 October 2010, 14:39:21 »

Oh, and it needs 2 2.0 USB ports so i can use a fancy night light like that one

ironman31 · « **Reply #492 on:** Mon, 04 October 2010, 14:53:10 »

Quote from: Senor_Cartmenez;229584

I'd watch way more tournaments if they were casted properly.

I have stumbled over HD Starcraft and that dude casts man. Others just don't compare, they are either boring or annoying (like husky).

Shame that guy doesn't cast finals series...

Day 9 isn't too shabby

MyNameIsDan · « **Reply #493 on:** Mon, 04 October 2010, 23:34:23 »

Quote from: Senor_Cartmenez;229584

I'd watch way more tournaments if they were casted properly.

I have stumbled over HD Starcraft and that dude casts man. Others just don't compare, they are either boring or annoying (like husky).

Shame that guy doesn't cast finals series...

I used to like HD when I first ran into sc2 casting... but as I played the beta myself and matured in my sc2 experience, i started to realize how subpar HD really is. He's a fun person to listen in on but he isn't very knowledgeable compared to others.

my cup of tea is day9. that man is the funniest caster ever and has quite the qualification for his knowledge in game and casting.

Senor_Cartmenez · « **Reply #494 on:** Tue, 05 October 2010, 05:14:33 »

If you want to learn stuff, then Day9 is the way to go, true. He is also funny and all.

But for entertainment purposes I definitely prefer HD... Honestly with this guy you could make a show on TV and people would watch, I feel.

Day 9 is sweet too but not quite the crowd pleaser

Senor_Cartmenez · « **Reply #495 on:** Tue, 05 October 2010, 05:19:12 »

Quote from: Fwiffo;229645

Actually, it was cast in English as well. The casters were Tasteless and Artosis, who are both much better players and casters than HD or Husky.

Much better players, yes, much better casters? Up for debate I say...

Oh and as "luck" has it, yesterday I checked HD's site and he casted the first semi final series of a recend TL tournament. Lalush vs. Agh was the series. he will cast the second semi finals (probably today) followed by the finals.

That he didn't cast the whole tournament makes me think that he really only likes to cast really good games.... Would love to have a whole tournament once in a while, too. No matter how crappy the game.

On a sidenote: HD drinks too much Sunny D, that stuff tastes like molten plastic with nuclear orange flavor...

ironman31 · « **Reply #496 on:** Tue, 05 October 2010, 08:34:58 »

I guess I'll have to listen to HD sometime

zefrer · « **Reply #497 on:** Tue, 05 October 2010, 08:49:04 »

Quote from: Fwiffo;229645

Actually, it was cast in English as well. The casters were Tasteless and Artosis, who are both much better players and casters than HD or Husky.

I stand corrected

I seem to remember several casters mentioning that Kespa would not allow english shoutcasts of their matches, maybe that was in earlier tournaments or something.

washuai · « **Reply #498 on:** Tue, 05 October 2010, 09:42:04 »

@MrBlond If the Deck & Razer have too much bezel for you and you have to have backlit, etc., why not look into getting an xarmor u9bl? That wrist rest detaches. Their board was out before razers and hopefully they'll be out before razer with their brown variant. All though, they aren't as easy to obtain, unfortunately. Still, way easier than some of the asian keyboards.

mrblond · « **Reply #499 on:** Tue, 05 October 2010, 13:09:58 »

Yeah, I have looked at those too. they seem like they are about the same as the Razer as well as the same price. I am starting to lean towards the Filco but again, I may just wait till Deck gets more of the keyboards with the cherry clears in them in stock and that sounds like it will be mid December.

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Author Topic: Razer Mechanical? (Read 246446 times)