Author Topic: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount | GB Nov 7th  (Read 44794 times)

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Offline r00dy

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[IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount | GB Nov 7th
« on: Tue, 08 March 2022, 16:43:02 »
January - 60% O Ring Mount


by r00dy and jr2417.

Discord

IC Form

Alexotos VOD summary:


NearLucid Short Overview:


Here is a soundtest of the second version in aluminum with 6 plates for comparison:


Here is a soundtest of the first prototype:



Introduction

We originally designed the January to test some aesthetic choices, most notably the gentle side sweep (inspired by the Dalco 959 Mini) with a rounded front and back, for another board we were working on. After producing some renders and ordering a prototype, we noticed that there was considerable interest in our server and we wanted to officially gauge interest.


Design

We've become fans of o-ring mounted boards as of late, most notably the Bakeneko, Tenshi, and Moontower. As with most o-ring mounted boards, the January is compatible with a variety of o-rings and the H60 PCB.


Pricing

Base Kit: $270 will include:

  • January Case (frosted pc or anodized aluminum)
  • Copper Weight
  • Aluminum Plate
  • O-Ring
  • Screws

Please note that the base kit will not include a pcb but January compatible pcbs will be sold separately. For those of you wondering why we decided to exclude the pcb from the base kit, the decision came down to the availability of aftermarket pcbs and other O-ring builds. The January is compatible with the H60 pcb and we feel that there are enough people with spare pcbs or O-ring mount builds to justify leaving the pcb out of the base kit. This allows us to provide the January at a lower price to those who have compatible pcbs while also providing January compatible pcbs (as extra add ons) to those who don't have one. The pcb price is TBD.


Groupbuy and Timeline Information
  • Vendors
    • US: KeebsForAll
    • Canada: TBA
    • EU: Candykeys
    • Asia: TBA
    • Oceania: SwitchKeys
The remaining info regarding the GB time and qty are TBA.

Third Revision

Here are some of the pictures from our final prototyping round of the unbuilt boards so you can see the internals, color samples, and weights. The number designation was specific to the private run and any weights without the "January" engraving were produced as one-offs.

Steel Blue (Anodized Aluminum)

291011-0

290680-1

Crimson (Anodized Aluminum)

291009-2

290678-3

Smoked Polycarbonate

290682-4

Frosted Polycarbonate

290684-5

Second Revision

286282-6

286280-7

First Revision

283464-8

283466-9

ChangeLog
  • First to Second Proto
    • Change feet (circular style)
    • Adjust weight shape and thickness
    • Make screws internal
    • Move posts
Case Specifications
  • Typing Angle: 6 degrees
  • Mounting Style: O-Ring
  • Case Material and Color: Frosted Polycarbonate
  • Plate Options: 1.5 mm Aluminum
  • PCB Options: Hotswap, Soldering
  • Weight Material and Finish: Sandblasted Copper
Layout Options
  • Normal and Stepped Caps Lock
  • Normal and Split Backspace
  • Full and Split Right Shift
  • Bottom Row: 1.25u 1.25u 1.25u 6.25u 1.25u 1.25u 1.25u 1.25u
  • Bottom Row: 1.5u 1u 1.5u 7u 1.5u 1u 1.5u

Acknowledgments

We'd like to thank kitkat for the weight font along with BirgusLatro, Meepergon, and adii for their advice.
[/list]
« Last Edit: Tue, 01 November 2022, 23:51:03 by r00dy »

Offline r00dy

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 08 March 2022, 16:43:31 »
More pictures of the v2 prototype in polycarbonate:

286284-0

286286-1

286288-2

286154-3

286156-4

286158-5

Pictures of the v1 prototype with the old feet for context. Please bear in mind that the feet have changed (see second prototype for the new feet).

286140-6

286142-7
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 September 2022, 11:46:37 by r00dy »

Offline pngu

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 08 March 2022, 16:46:01 »
Is this the first GB to have a 2 month delay before even starting?

Offline James_fourth

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 08 March 2022, 16:51:42 »
Such a solid thock from that case. Im not ready to hop on another group buy, but this looks like a really nice board.
« Last Edit: Wed, 09 March 2022, 18:49:21 by James_fourth »

Offline less_blank

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 08 March 2022, 16:57:33 »
Looks quite nice overall but man those feet just look way too big and kinda take over the whole bottom when the focus should be on the copper weight. Would definitely prefer much smaller, possibly clear feet.

Offline .jan

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 08 March 2022, 17:00:59 »
january for jan

Offline Rafa_n

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 08 March 2022, 17:11:07 »
please consider EU vendor

Offline shima

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 08 March 2022, 17:27:13 »
big ****in feet :blank:


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Offline gotgoodiez

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 08 March 2022, 17:56:43 »
Nice looking board and I don't mind the bring your own PCB approach but probably better to have one anyway. Also sad to see you want to hide the screws, I personally like them and if anything make it flush with the weight. GLWIC!

Offline audax989

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 08 March 2022, 18:25:05 »
why are the feet so big? anyways goodluck with gb!

Offline Baka Bot

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 08 March 2022, 18:52:50 »
But wait its March?!?!?!

Offline tarokeebs

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 08 March 2022, 18:57:36 »
Looks quite nice overall but man those feet just look way too big and kinda take over the whole bottom when the focus should be on the copper weight. Would definitely prefer much smaller, possibly clear feet.

have to agree
      

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Offline ankit

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 08 March 2022, 19:05:10 »
Are there helicoils for the weight and daughter-board screws?

Offline janekeebs

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 08 March 2022, 21:03:34 »
Sounds and looks amazing, how much flex is there in the board?

Offline hali

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 08 March 2022, 21:18:21 »
as someone with a name permanently attached to a backplate bakeneko i wanna echo everyone else's comments about the bottom and the feet

Offline tuesdaygloom

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 08 March 2022, 22:37:14 »
The board looks really pretty, but I also think the feet look a bit odd. I think it's how the weight is cutout to separate it with the feet that makes me think it's a bit weird?

Offline TheIcyKoala

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 09 March 2022, 00:45:14 »
Big fan of PC 60 percents! You mentioned you used a bakeneko pcb? Would that be the cannonkeys version? I am curious because that would mean this is compatible with all unikorn compatible pcbs  :thumb:

Offline croatoanlp

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 09 March 2022, 00:55:34 »
please consider EU vendor
+1
I would also prefer smaller feet

Offline the flying penguin

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 09 March 2022, 00:58:18 »
you know what they say about people boards with big feet

Offline Stilou Studio

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 09 March 2022, 02:14:14 »
Looks super nice although I would personally prefer small circular feet.

Offline elongatedmusk

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 09 March 2022, 03:46:03 »
I'm a sucker for o ring board

but yes, please consider smaller feet since it looks kinda out of place imo, or at least give an option to choose :thumb:

Offline r00dy

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 09 March 2022, 11:45:41 »
Big fan of PC 60 percents! You mentioned you used a bakeneko pcb? Would that be the cannonkeys version? I am curious because that would mean this is compatible with all unikorn compatible pcbs  :thumb:

Yes.

Update: No longer feasible with the redesign but it is compatible with the H60.

Are there helicoils for the weight and daughter-board screws?

There are inserts in all of the screw holes.

Sounds and looks amazing, how much flex is there in the board?

There's a quick flex demo at the end of the video in the main post. The flex is dependent on both plate material and the gasket shore but I personally lean towards 30A gaskets for a bouncier configuration. You should be able to use any standard 60% plate and o-ring to suit your typing preference.

please consider EU vendor

Vendor selection is dependent on interest so we'll address that when we get there. As of right now, interest outside the US appears to be quite low.

We were aware that the feet might be controversial and we've decided to switch over to the feet we used in the Vega Wrist Rest. These feet are circular but flat on the bottom unlike your typical bumpons. I'll adjust the weight accordingly for the second prototype. Here is a picture of how they look on the vega wrist rest:

283532-0
« Last Edit: Mon, 23 May 2022, 21:16:21 by r00dy »

Offline less_blank

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 09 March 2022, 13:07:31 »
New feet are definitely better. Still prefer clear ones for a clear board personally but would be easy enough to pick some up and swap them out myself at that size.

Offline LONGZILLA

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 09 March 2022, 13:08:07 »
hype 🔥

Offline stomaha

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 09 March 2022, 13:58:37 »
This is perfect. All the boards I buy have stupid little feet. This is the Shaq of 60s.

Offline unusuaL_

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 10 March 2022, 13:43:24 »
thickfeet
Currently typing on: imaginary tkl proto, hhkb

Offline lakdsjfhklasdjfh

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 10 March 2022, 15:34:48 »
looks amazing and love the idea but i feel the 60% market is a bit flooded at the moment and those feet...
maybe consider using some smaller feet that stand out less to make the weight the star of the board and not the feet
simp for smooth linears and mid strength tactiles, currently looking for a good 1800 layout board

Offline Rpmorrison10

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #27 on: Sat, 12 March 2022, 10:25:12 »
I like the weight and foot design.

Is there a reason behind the name January?

Offline AeternusCo

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #28 on: Sat, 12 March 2022, 10:48:37 »
PC and Copper are like an aesthetics cheat code. Might be nice if the feet were clear instead of black, they're rather glaring on the pc.

Offline r00dy

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 23 March 2022, 09:52:28 »
Addressing some more questions and suggestions in the IC for visibility:

1. HHKB or WKL? We won't be offering WKL or HHKB. It complicates the O-ring drop in design and we're trying to limit the number of SKUs after our experience with the Paragon.
2. Layouts and Plate Materials? I've listed the current layouts that are supported by the plate. We're not sure about supporting layouts outside what's listed but we may consider adding support based on the IC at a later point. We're exploring half-plate options and different plate materials.
3. I don't like the weight design or screw placement. The screws and positioning are changing. The weight shape is changing but the engraving is final.
4. Vendors and Pricing? We're still unsure of the interest so it's hard for us to get a price estimate since the quantity is undetermined and we don't want to give an incorrect price estimate either. Vendors are predicated upon regional interest so we're still waiting to see how the IC fairs in that regard.
5. I don't like the feet. I've seen a lot of suggestions regarding the feet (some people seem to want clear 3M bumpons). We feel like clear 3M bumpons look like an afterthought on most boards while also cheapening the look. I understand that most boards use clear bumpons and I also understand if this decision is a dealbreaker for people but we don't want to sacrifice our vision for the board. We're exploring an aluminum option in the second iteration so if visible feet are a concern for you, perhaps the aluminum variant may be more up your alley. We are, however, changing the shape of the feet to the circular ones used in the vega wrist rest. The weight will change accordingly to match the new feet profile.
« Last Edit: Wed, 23 March 2022, 12:32:24 by r00dy »

Offline brantaniguchi

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 23 March 2022, 11:10:50 »
What's the front height?

Offline CookieFlow

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 23 March 2022, 12:16:43 »
The main thing I don't understand about the weight/feet situation is what prevents the weight from being just a rectangle without cutouts and have the feet  "above" and "under" the weight?

There appears to be enough room on the top and bottom to put the feets (if its too close to the edge, they can always be reduce in size a little bit), so I am not sure the need for cutouts on the weight?
It makes the machining more complicated, it removes some mass (which on a PC board it can generally always use some more weight) and aesthetically it seems a bit controversial.

But maybe that's addressed in the new "weight shape"
« Last Edit: Wed, 23 March 2022, 12:20:40 by CookieFlow »
       

Offline less_blank

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 23 March 2022, 13:11:53 »
The main thing I don't understand about the weight/feet situation is what prevents the weight from being just a rectangle without cutouts and have the feet  "above" and "under" the weight?

There appears to be enough room on the top and bottom to put the feets (if its too close to the edge, they can always be reduce in size a little bit), so I am not sure the need for cutouts on the weight?
It makes the machining more complicated, it removes some mass (which on a PC board it can generally always use some more weight) and aesthetically it seems a bit controversial.

But maybe that's addressed in the new "weight shape"
It's the size of the feet that is controversial, not the shape of the weight. It's an aesthetic choice though, I imagine the new cut outs will be smaller and more rounded to match the new feet.

Offline Arithmetics

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 23 March 2022, 14:52:24 »
do the screws need to stick out from the weight?

Offline r00dy

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 23 March 2022, 21:07:25 »
The main thing I don't understand about the weight/feet situation is what prevents the weight from being just a rectangle without cutouts and have the feet  "above" and "under" the weight?

There appears to be enough room on the top and bottom to put the feets (if its too close to the edge, they can always be reduce in size a little bit), so I am not sure the need for cutouts on the weight?
It makes the machining more complicated, it removes some mass (which on a PC board it can generally always use some more weight) and aesthetically it seems a bit controversial.

But maybe that's addressed in the new "weight shape"

Aesthetics. We like the idea of "framing" the weight but yes, I've expanded the weight as well in this revision.

do the screws need to stick out from the weight?

In the main post there is a section "Changes to Address Issues with the First Prototype". Under that, one of the two changes says "Recess screws fully". It was an issue with the first prototype that has already been addressed since the original IC post.

What's the front height?

It's currently 19.15 mm but I'm still revising the second design so it could come down a bit. I've designed a wrist rest to complement the side profile but I would still like it to be usable without a wrist rest.

Offline VaporKeebs

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #35 on: Thu, 24 March 2022, 20:01:38 »
I think I'll bow out of this one. Good luck with the GB.
« Last Edit: Thu, 24 March 2022, 22:10:24 by VaporKeebs »
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Offline infinitum

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 07:39:19 »
looks absolutely sick!


Offline r00dy

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #37 on: Tue, 26 April 2022, 09:01:34 »
Here is a pic of the unfinished alu prototype (please note that it still needs to be sandblasted and anodized). The weight and feet have been redesigned and the screws are concealed internally. The pc prototype is also underway and we're hoping that both prototypes can ship to us in a week or so.

285494-0

Offline Nonnegaard

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 05 May 2022, 04:07:19 »
i mean, i know this is going to sound a little.. idk, but i actually preferred the oval feel. here's my idea: make the feet as long as they once were, but thinner and slimmer. it looks too generic now, tenshi, hoshizora, unikorn, jane, etc.
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Offline aa212121

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 05 May 2022, 11:30:09 »
Edited-nice feet
« Last Edit: Thu, 05 May 2022, 11:32:16 by aa212121 »

Offline stomaha

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #40 on: Thu, 05 May 2022, 17:44:21 »
good feet

Offline SDKCAMPING

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #41 on: Thu, 05 May 2022, 19:07:04 »
I have to agree, while i did not like the big and long feet, I am a little worn out from seeing so many boards with this same weight design now that people are modding bakenekos
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Offline r00dy

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #42 on: Thu, 05 May 2022, 20:46:07 »
i mean, i know this is going to sound a little.. idk, but i actually preferred the oval feel. here's my idea: make the feet as long as they once were, but thinner and slimmer. it looks too generic now, tenshi, hoshizora, unikorn, jane, etc.

The only option here would be SKUF feet but I'm not a huge fan of the shape. In my opinion, all of the aformentioned boards have similar side profiles and the January brings something refreshing to the table with a relatively unique shape and side profile.

An overwhelming majority of people requested that we change the feet to circular bumpons. We're using feet from the vega wrist rest (that are cylindrical instead of the typical bumpon shape). These feet have the advantage of being circular and unobtrusive (we've found a transparent option for the vocal critics) which is what people seem to want while also differentiating themselves from your run-of-the-mill cheap bumpons. Here is an example of the transparent vega wrist rest feet on an acrylic wrist rest:

285941-0

I have to agree, while i did not like the big and long feet, I am a little worn out from seeing so many boards with this same weight design now that people are modding bakenekos

The redesigned weight differentiates itself by having concealed screws and being fully flush with the bottom of the case (this is not necessarily the case with some of the comparisons the January has been receiving). I'm worn out from having to defend the feet of a board (that are invisible when seated on the desk), especially after making changes due to popular demand. I have the polycarbonate prototype (with the big feet) in front of me and the feet are not visible when seated on the desk. I have never seen people make such a big deal about the feet of the keyboard and I say this as someone who peruses geekhack daily. I understand that the original feet we used were rather unorthodox but we have listened and made changes to the feet, only to receive criticism about the feet again.

I'm truly exasperated because we tried our best to improve how we handled IC's after the Paragon. We ordered a prototype first, recorded a soundtest, and avoided renders entirely by only using prototype pictures. This isn't some low effort IC where I modified an existing file in 20 minutes and my partner and I have spent well over 2k in prototyping (with the new protos included), only to see our entire IC get pulled apart in both directions by a debate on feet. People didn't like the feet so we changed it to what they wanted. We even ordered an aluminum prototype after people requested it in addition to the second polycarbonate prototype that has shipped. We're willing to put in the time and money to produce something that people want but harping on the feet after we've made a change that was overwhelmingly favored is something I find incredibly frustrating given the fact that we clearly cannot please everyone. If you don't like the revisions we've made to the feet and the weight, please feel free to buy another board or design your own.

Offline Xherion

  • Posts: 47
Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #43 on: Thu, 05 May 2022, 21:16:41 »
Actually this is one of the few boards that the designer really spent a lot of effort and out-of-pocket money to do prototyping at the very early stage.

To me, harping on the feet design is a bit....uhm....petty I would say. There are a lot of other higher priorities in the design aspects than the mere feet.

I would rather the designer to spend more time perfecting the other parts of the design like top/side view, sound profile, screw placements, etc, which r00dy has already done / going to do with the next proto.

Offline LaminarDesigns

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #44 on: Fri, 06 May 2022, 17:14:15 »
IMO the feet look humongous, other than that great work!

Offline Peachmuffin

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #45 on: Fri, 06 May 2022, 22:59:02 »
For maximum aesthetics, just make it with no feet.
Curve the bottom a bit, so when you put the keyboard on a mat, it doesn't slide around.
With all these keyboards being so damn heavy, who needs feet.

Offline jimmy buckets

  • Posts: 1
Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #46 on: Sat, 07 May 2022, 00:25:38 »
For maximum aesthetics, just make it with no feet.
Curve the bottom a bit, so when you put the keyboard on a mat, it doesn't slide around.
With all these keyboards being so damn heavy, who needs feet.

This might be one of the dumber takes I've seen in this hobby. Hope you're good with scratching up the bottom of your board lol I'll stick to the rubber feet. Besides, I've noticed plenty of "heavy" boards sliding around on a deskmat, so the rubber feet are definitely functional.

Offline TheNeonKnight

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #47 on: Mon, 09 May 2022, 17:33:12 »
I need one for Alps, make it so!

Offline r00dy

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #48 on: Tue, 10 May 2022, 18:56:46 »
I need one for Alps, make it so!

We're actually looking into this and I hope we can make it happen.

The rev2 prototype (in pc) has arrived. I've updated the changelog, main post, and first comment with the appropriate pictures and text to highlight the changes. If you want clear feet, you can buy them here but please note that the board was not explicitly designed to pair with the clear feet. Design decisions regarding the feet are nonnegotiable from here on out.

We're currently waiting on the aluminum prototype (currently in the anodizing stage). The order for the aluminum prototype includes a variety of plates including pc, pom, fr4, pp, and cf in addition to the original aluminum plate. Once we receive the aluminum prototype and plates, we'll record some new soundtests and determine the next steps.

Offline irithyll

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Re: [IC] January - 60% O-Ring Mount
« Reply #49 on: Tue, 10 May 2022, 19:02:46 »
I need one for Alps, make it so!

We're actually looking into this and I hope we can make it happen.

The rev2 prototype (in pc) has arrived. I've updated the changelog, main post, and first comment with the appropriate pictures and text to highlight the changes. If you want clear feet, you can buy them here but please note that the board was not explicitly designed to pair with the clear feet. Design decisions regarding the feet are nonnegotiable from here on out.

We're currently waiting on the aluminum prototype (currently in the anodizing stage). The order for the aluminum prototype includes a variety of plates including pc, pom, fr4, pp, and cf in addition to the original aluminum plate. Once we receive the aluminum prototype and plates, we'll record some new soundtests and determine the next steps.

Definitely interested in this board. Never quite got into 60% personally, but I actually really like the design of this one (+ my birthday is in January). Hopefully the alu proto also looks great and maybe a soundtest for that as well? I really appreciate all the efforts going into prototyping before the gb and hopefully everything turns out well! :D