Author Topic: Phantom Custom Keyboard Group Buy (CLOSED)  (Read 351031 times)

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Offline Razer1987

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« Reply #550 on: Wed, 07 December 2011, 01:21:10 »
Quote from: litster;465590
I might have solved the thickness problem.  If you can't make a slope, make steps instead.  This case is going to be junked and I will have to make a new one.  This one has so many test holes in it, but it is a worthy prototype.

(Attachment Link) 34174[/ATTACH]
(Attachment Link) 34175[/ATTACH]


did you build it with hand and electric tools or do you have your own little cnc?

Offline litster

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« Reply #551 on: Wed, 07 December 2011, 01:23:15 »
It was built by hand, QCAD, and a laser cutter.

Offline digitalleftovers

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« Reply #552 on: Wed, 07 December 2011, 01:44:27 »
So you have your 'own little laser cutter.'  Thats pretty awesome.  The case looks REALLY good.  The shadow looks like there is rubber foot or something in the very back?
Keyboards:
Filco 104 MX Brown (Otaku) - FKBN104M/NPEK 黒い空
Ducky TKL MX Brown/Blue 80% (White) - 1087-F 白の空
KBC Poker MX Red with PBT Key Caps - PFCN6000


"Consumers use touch screens.  Producers use keyboards."

Offline litster

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« Reply #553 on: Wed, 07 December 2011, 02:31:11 »
I don't have a personal laser cutter.  I do have access to one.  I have rubber feet under the case, but I think what you see is the hex nut at the back.  I still need to make a few changes, but the overal shape looks to be very close to final.  Ordering the exact screws with the exact length is going to be interesting, especially because these acrylic pieces' thinkness varies quite a bit.  A 3/8" is more like 5/16".

I think next test case I build will be in color acrylic.  Clear looks a little "dirty" when I have to glue a few parts together.

Offline digitalleftovers

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« Reply #554 on: Wed, 07 December 2011, 03:09:48 »
Colored? Interesting.  I don't know what colors acrylic comes in, but I just looked some up.  I was just imagining what tinted plastic might look like if I painted the inside of it silver... hmmm.
Keyboards:
Filco 104 MX Brown (Otaku) - FKBN104M/NPEK 黒い空
Ducky TKL MX Brown/Blue 80% (White) - 1087-F 白の空
KBC Poker MX Red with PBT Key Caps - PFCN6000


"Consumers use touch screens.  Producers use keyboards."

Offline kaiserreich

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« Reply #555 on: Wed, 07 December 2011, 03:59:32 »
Quote from: litster;465637
I don't have a personal laser cutter.  I do have access to one.  I have rubber feet under the case, but I think what you see is the hex nut at the back.  I still need to make a few changes, but the overal shape looks to be very close to final.  Ordering the exact screws with the exact length is going to be interesting, especially because these acrylic pieces' thinkness varies quite a bit.  A 3/8" is more like 5/16".

I think next test case I build will be in color acrylic.  Clear looks a little "dirty" when I have to glue a few parts together.

Opaque acrylics will be good to hide those dirty parts

Will you be using this?
« Last Edit: Wed, 07 December 2011, 04:19:11 by kaiserreich »

Offline Findecanor

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« Reply #556 on: Wed, 07 December 2011, 05:44:12 »
Quote from: litster;465590
I might have solved the thickness problem.  If you can't make a slope, make steps instead.  This case is going to be junked and I will have to make a new one.  This one has so many test holes in it, but it is a worthy prototype.

(Attachment Link) 34174[/ATTACH]
(Attachment Link) 34175[/ATTACH]
I think that the bottom steps on the back should not extend all the way to the left and right, if that is possible. It would look better if they started a cm or so underneath the large bottom.
🍉

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #557 on: Wed, 07 December 2011, 10:08:41 »
yea, make it just the middle part of the bottom so it gives an illusion of the keyboard is floating :D

like that pic you posted

Offline litster

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« Reply #558 on: Wed, 07 December 2011, 10:52:54 »
Quote from: kaiserreich;465657
Opaque acrylics will be good to hide those dirty parts

Will you be using this?


I will take a look what colors they have.  Will try opaque.  Brown with yellow middle layer?  Blue with white middle layer?  But I don't think it would be possible to make custom color cases later for people.  Heck, I don't even know right now how to make a bunch of these clear acrylic.  It takes about 30 minutes to cut all all the pieces.  I will have to find a company to cut them in bulk.  

Quote from: Findecanor;465670
I think that the bottom steps on the back should not extend all the way to the left and right, if that is possible. It would look better if they started a cm or so underneath the large bottom.


Quote from: ishtob;465789
yea, make it just the middle part of the bottom so it gives an illusion of the keyboard is floating :D

like that pic you posted


Good idea!  I will give that a try.  The bottom half is to make room for the Filco connector or Phantom's Teensy controller.  Making it narrower will not make use of the rigidness of the outside frame.  Let me think about that.

Offline kaiserreich

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« Reply #559 on: Wed, 07 December 2011, 10:55:00 »
Quote from: litster;465836
I will take a look what colors they have.  Will try opaque.  Brown with yellow middle layer?  Blue with white middle layer?  But I don't think it would be possible to make custom color cases later for people.  Heck, I don't even know right now how to make a bunch of these clear acrylic.  It takes about 30 minutes to cut all all the pieces.  I will have to find a company to cut them in bulk.  

Start a poll, get the most and 2nd most popular color.
Then, do not change your mind no matter what, if it ever gets mass produced.

Offline litster

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« Reply #560 on: Wed, 07 December 2011, 15:58:34 »
I don't think I can shorten the bottom steps.  The case would not be sturdy enough.  In fact I need to add a screw on each side to hold the upper part and the lower step together.

BTW, I got these screws and nuts:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#91249a123/=f9i240
http://www.mcmaster.com/#91249a119/=f9i2e1
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/117/3183/=f9i2gw

Offline Razer1987

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« Reply #561 on: Wed, 07 December 2011, 16:10:13 »
and do you have any idea where we can find the beautifull little feet from Korean cases? I've never seen stuff like that in France…

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #562 on: Wed, 07 December 2011, 16:29:54 »
I know everyone is into the custom acrylic case at the moment but has anyone measured their filco to see how it compares to the PLU measurements that were posted?

Offline digitalleftovers

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« Reply #563 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 01:51:10 »
Quote from: Razer1987;466038
and do you have any idea where we can find the beautifull little feet from Korean cases? I've never seen stuff like that in France…


I saw some photos of those being made somewhere, so I'm almost certain they were milled along with the keyboards.
Keyboards:
Filco 104 MX Brown (Otaku) - FKBN104M/NPEK 黒い空
Ducky TKL MX Brown/Blue 80% (White) - 1087-F 白の空
KBC Poker MX Red with PBT Key Caps - PFCN6000


"Consumers use touch screens.  Producers use keyboards."

Offline litster

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« Reply #564 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 02:46:15 »
Any suggestions for female mini USB connector / cable that can be attached (glued or screwed) to the inside of the acrylic keyboard?

Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #565 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 06:37:27 »
Anyone know a source for PCB-mounted Cherry MX Green switches?

Offline Tarkoon

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« Reply #566 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 08:01:34 »
Quote from: litster;466378
Any suggestions for female mini USB connector / cable that can be attached (glued or screwed) to the inside of the acrylic keyboard?

I thought about buying an active USB hub with all ports at one side and put its PCB into the phantom.
But I am still searching for a cheap and small version.
Just as example for the positioning of the ports: (this one has to many ports / is too big and is too expensive)
http://www.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=158910
One of the ports would be connected internally to the teensy.
This way you would have a detachable cable and a USB hub (if you want with own power supply, but also possible without)

Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #567 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 08:18:08 »
This is the one I got:  http://www.amazon.com/4-Port-Slim-USB-Hub/dp/B0042YW2EM/ref=sr_1_33?ie=UTF8&qid=1323353739&sr=8-33   ordered through Amazon from CTC-global (they're the cheaper price).

The short cable it came with is flaky, the hub itself works fine.  I've already cut one port off the board in preparation for sticking it in my KB.  It's nicely compact.  Having a mini USB B port may or may not be a plus to you.

Oh yeah... and if you mean powered when you say active, this one is not.
Filco w/ Imsto thick PBT
Ducky 1087XM PCB+Plate, w/ Matias "Quiet Click" spring-swapped w/ XM Greens

Offline Tarkoon

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« Reply #568 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 08:23:46 »
Powered is not necessary, but why not if I could find a fitting one.
If not I wold try find a good unpowered one.
More important would be the layout of the ports.
How do you plan to place the hub you posted?

Offline Tarkoon

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« Reply #569 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 08:32:41 »
This one looks great:
http://www.reichelt.de/?ACTION=3;ARTICLE=75010;GROUPID=4831;PROVID=4;&utm_source=Preisvergleich&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=preissuchmaschine-guenstiger.de
With another two ports pointing to the back side. One of these would be perfekt for the internal connection to the teensy!
I would absolutely prefer a solution with USB hub over a simple mini USB connector!
« Last Edit: Thu, 08 December 2011, 09:17:12 by Tarkoon »

Offline digitalleftovers

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« Reply #570 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 16:29:23 »
Quote from: keyboardlover;466398
Anyone know a source for PCB-mounted Cherry MX Green switches?

Any idea what the MOQ would be to get some from cherry?
Keyboards:
Filco 104 MX Brown (Otaku) - FKBN104M/NPEK 黒い空
Ducky TKL MX Brown/Blue 80% (White) - 1087-F 白の空
KBC Poker MX Red with PBT Key Caps - PFCN6000


"Consumers use touch screens.  Producers use keyboards."

Offline litster

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« Reply #571 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 18:05:08 »
Quote from: digitalleftovers;466697
Any idea what the MOQ would be to get some from cherry?

1000 switch per color minimum.

Offline digitalleftovers

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« Reply #572 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 18:57:08 »
Quote from: litster;466733
1000 switch per color minimum.

Hmm... Greens probably won't be that popular...

I had a thought of doing the letter/number keys with blues, and all of the mods and F keys in greens.
Keyboards:
Filco 104 MX Brown (Otaku) - FKBN104M/NPEK 黒い空
Ducky TKL MX Brown/Blue 80% (White) - 1087-F 白の空
KBC Poker MX Red with PBT Key Caps - PFCN6000


"Consumers use touch screens.  Producers use keyboards."

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #573 on: Fri, 09 December 2011, 04:26:08 »
Quote from: dux;464152
Plu Dimensions:
size of PCB 122 * 345 mm , one or 2 mm more would not be a problem
size of plate 128 * 349 mm, the 128 should be rather precise cut

distance between:
ESC and F1: 38 mm
F9 to Pause/Break : 119 mm
ESC and Pause/Break : 328.5 mm
Pause/Break and Right Arrow: 104 mm
Distance between all the holes on the PCB for the supporting posts on the bottom of the keyboard case

I measuerd all holes from the middle of the hole.
All upper holes have the distance of 22.5mm from the upper edge of the PCB.
The distances of the upper 3 holes from left (CapsLock side) to the right side are:
left edge to 1st hole: 56mm, 1st hole to 2nd hole: 115.5mm, 2nd hole to the 3rd hole: 115.5mm, 3rd hole to the right edge: 58.5mm.

Lower right (CapsLock Side) hole: 13mm to the bottom edge, 58.5mm to the right edge.
Lower left hole: 36mm to the left edge, 37.5mm to the bottom edge.

(Attachment Link) 33926[/ATTACH]


Anyone who has a filco mind taking it apart and comparing measurements?

Offline litster

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« Reply #574 on: Sat, 10 December 2011, 03:46:13 »
First test plate is in.  Notice I use a Cherry off-center capslock.  I don't have any plate-mount stabilizer.  I may need to butcher a Wyse keyboard to get a couple of plate-mounted Cherry stabilizers.  To late tonight (this morning?).  I will put it inside my acrylic case or a Filco case tomorrow.




Offline litster

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« Reply #575 on: Sat, 10 December 2011, 12:46:37 »
I posted this over at DT with regard to the case, but it should be posted here as well:

Those screen shots were old. I will have to make newer ones. I also removed the Phantom text because that increases laser time. The new design has 6 layers, and requires gluing. I also have a shop close to me that could to this. I am just waiting until I have a release-candidate design before I move forward with a shop.

In any case (no pun intended), I think I will wait for a little bit before continuing. It is close to the holidays and I won't be around as much. I am on vacation for the rest of the year start now . The case design now is based on Filco. With Phantom, the top layer will change. I think it is better to finalize the design using the actually Phantom design, and not make it compatible with Filco. Doing so I will have to make compromises. I can always make a couple of small changes and cut for Filco, if people want a Filco acrylic case.

Although the case design seems to work, we need more testing. For example, make sure the typing feel is solid, not wobbly, the keyboard innards doesn't move around inside the case, or the case is actually not too flexible and is supportive of the PCB and the plate. All the things people complain about Filco/Ducky/Leopold etc, will apply to my case. To ensure the case design actually works well, I will need to make a couple extra prototypes and need volunteers to test it for me, in DIY construction of the case and usage testing. Haven't figured out how to do it yet because it is expensive and time consuming to make 2 one-off cases.

I don't think it is a good idea to wait for the case. We need to close out the group buy with the plates, PCBs, switches, stabilizers, diodes and such. We can get everything done put together, modify the firmware, and then deal with the case later.

This is going to be a year-long project. Exciting!

Offline whiskerBox

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« Reply #576 on: Sat, 10 December 2011, 17:01:14 »
Hmmm no Filco compatibility :( well I guess I will have to order phantom parts then because I need a acrylic case
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #577 on: Sat, 10 December 2011, 21:57:34 »
Yes the case should acrylic case should be done separately as this was originally designed for a Filco case. The PLU looks close also and we now have measurements, now if we could get comparison measurements of a Filco.

Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #578 on: Sat, 10 December 2011, 23:06:08 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;468074
Yes the case should acrylic case should be done separately as this was originally designed for a Filco case. The PLU looks close also and we now have measurements, now if we could get comparison measurements of a Filco.
You know, if we added one more hole, and routed the traces a little differently around it, we could probably add CMstorm compatibility...

But I'm all set on a custom case anyway, so it's really a non-issue.

Offline litster

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« Reply #579 on: Sat, 10 December 2011, 23:44:22 »
Quote from: dux;464152
Plu Dimensions:
size of PCB 122 * 345 mm , one or 2 mm more would not be a problem
size of plate 128 * 349 mm, the 128 should be rather precise cut

distance between:
ESC and F1: 38 mm
F9 to Pause/Break : 119 mm
ESC and Pause/Break : 328.5 mm
Pause/Break and Right Arrow: 104 mm
Distance between all the holes on the PCB for the supporting posts on the bottom of the keyboard case

I measuerd all holes from the middle of the hole.
All upper holes have the distance of 22.5mm from the upper edge of the PCB.
The distances of the upper 3 holes from left (CapsLock side) to the right side are:
left edge to 1st hole: 56mm, 1st hole to 2nd hole: 115.5mm, 2nd hole to the 3rd hole: 115.5mm, 3rd hole to the right edge: 58.5mm.

Lower right (CapsLock Side) hole: 13mm to the bottom edge, 58.5mm to the right edge.
Lower left hole: 36mm to the left edge, 37.5mm to the bottom edge.

(Attachment Link) 33926[/ATTACH]

Thanks for the measurements.  They match Filco's.

And thanks for the gentle reminder, TheProfosist.  :-)

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #580 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 00:32:24 »
Quote from: litster;468107
Thanks for the measurements.  They match Filco's.

And thanks for the gentle reminder, TheProfosist.  :-)
Thanks much now i can get me some PLUs cheap case if you ask me.

Offline litster

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« Reply #581 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 00:40:54 »
Whoa!





Sunken screws and nuts.  But screws are too long.  Where can I get custom length screws?

Any the case is not easy to put together.  Very time consuming.
« Last Edit: Sun, 11 December 2011, 00:43:19 by litster »

Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #582 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 01:06:45 »
You can get screws that are "too long" and cut them down pretty easily. You also may be able to get them in the proper length for our application.

Looks good, though. I assume the black plastic is glued on?

Offline kaiserreich

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« Reply #583 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 01:19:31 »
Looks like a Korean A87 wannabe. heh

Offline litster

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« Reply #584 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 01:21:43 »
Hehe, I looked at a lot of pictures on kbdmania.net.  I borrowed a lot of ideas from them.

Offline digitalleftovers

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« Reply #585 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 04:08:45 »
WOW...
DO WANT.
Any updates on switch availability?
Keyboards:
Filco 104 MX Brown (Otaku) - FKBN104M/NPEK 黒い空
Ducky TKL MX Brown/Blue 80% (White) - 1087-F 白の空
KBC Poker MX Red with PBT Key Caps - PFCN6000


"Consumers use touch screens.  Producers use keyboards."

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #586 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 04:16:04 »
Quote from: digitalleftovers;468164
WOW...
DO WANT.
Any updates on switch availability?
WASD will have switches starting later this month at the same price as mouser or lower if you  cant get the switch you want through the group buy.

Offline litster

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« Reply #587 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 11:26:38 »
I can cut screws.  But a lot of people can't or don't have the tools to do so.  That's why I want to order custom length screws.  Maybe use acron nuts instead...  What makes it worse is the acrylic thinkness is always a little thinner than it is listed.  So if total thickness is 1 inch, it ended up as 15/16 or something like that.

As nice as this one looks, I think I will need to go back to non-sunken screws and may be use acron nuts, unless you guys don't mind gluing a layers together yourselves and cutting your own screws.  Actually you might need to cut your own screws either way.  Or, I will have to design the case based on popular screw lengths (3/4 inch, 1 inch, 1 1/4inch).

The case looks better in picture then in person though.  May be because I made it, I see flaws everywhere... :(

Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #588 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 14:21:21 »
litster, it might be more work for you, but you could cut the screws, and ship them out with the plates (and maybe charge a fee for you time), that way he people who don't have hacksaws, etc. can just order custom-cut screws from you with their order.

Although, finding a supplier of custom-length screws would probably be the best idea in that case, as they surely can do it for a better price.

Looking around online, I notice that there appear to be lots of custom screw places. I'm sure we'd meet the MOQ for at least one of them.

Offline trax

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« Reply #589 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 15:22:32 »
Just wondering, can't you 'insert' the screws from the back side of the kboard so you don't seem them?
Switches tried so far
Cherry MX Red Blue Black Clear
ALPS White Black (fake)Blue
Montereys
ACER
White Black
Futaba
Buckling Sprin

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #590 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 15:36:16 »
that requires tapping the top cover, which may cost more than just doing the way lister has it, plus it gives the phantom a more industrial look

Offline litster

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« Reply #591 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 15:36:55 »
Cutting 10-12 screws for a prototype, I can do.  Citing that many screws by myself for each keyboard case I might built for a group buy?  I have better things to spend my time on :-)

I will search around on how much it might be to get some custom screws.  Investigating and learning how to build this thing is fun.

Offline litster

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« Reply #592 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 15:40:33 »
I bought a 4-40 tapper.  It works, most of the time, with acrylic.  For the occasions that it doesn't, you are screwed, so to speak ;-)

My first clear acrylic case bares the tapper scares.

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #593 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 20:26:00 »
did you use lube for the tap? it makes much cleaner taps with lube

Offline litster

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« Reply #594 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 21:46:35 »
No, I didn't.  What kind of lube?  I think tap would work for the most part in my new design, except the rear part where I need to screw 3 layers together.  Lining holes and threads across 3 layers will be hard, and a lot of holes the tap.  Screw up one and the case is flawed.

Offline Skoobs

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« Reply #595 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 00:54:09 »
i would rather see the screws on the top. i would love some big, industrial, steampunk style hex nuts on top or something

Offline dorkvader

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Phantom Custom Keyboard Group Buy (CLOSED)
« Reply #596 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 01:39:08 »
Quote from: Skoobs;468673
i would rather see the screws on the top. i would love some big, industrial, steampunk style hex nuts on top or something

Yep! I'm a fan of good-looking HEX nuts, and bolts, like what you see on a lot of DIY enclosures. (I like the ones that come with the aptly named "box esclosures" b2-080 that I have for my AMB gamm2 DAC: Here's a pic from head case.
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g156/Asrale/NorCal%202009/ncr09_01.jpg

Offline whiskerBox

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Phantom Custom Keyboard Group Buy (CLOSED)
« Reply #597 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 01:39:27 »
I know this is probably putting the cart before the horse, but check these out.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 34640[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 34642[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 34643[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 34644[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 34645[/ATTACH]

There are so many custom colors and different sizes at this site

This other website has some interesting ones as well

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 34647[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 34648[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 34649[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 34650[/ATTACH]
Source

This might just add a little cherry on the top of an awesome case. If I had to have bolts in the case I would want ones like these.
« Last Edit: Mon, 12 December 2011, 01:52:18 by whiskerBox »
"I'm on a mission to bring down GH's anarchy of moderators" -RIPSTER jr.

Offline litster

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Phantom Custom Keyboard Group Buy (CLOSED)
« Reply #598 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 01:53:12 »
Quote from: whiskerBox;468690
I know this is probably putting the cart before the horse, but check these out.

(Attachment Link) 34640[/ATTACH] (Attachment Link) 34642[/ATTACH] (Attachment Link) 34643[/ATTACH] (Attachment Link) 34644[/ATTACH] (Attachment Link) 34645[/ATTACH]

There are so many custom colors and different sizes at this site

That is sweet!  Thanks for the link whiskerBox!  Have you bought from this site?  I was just looking at mcmaster.com and couldn't find machine screws with perfect length, and then I realized that matric may have more options.  Let me see what Fastener Express has in length.  The colored nylon lock nuts would be perfect if I can find the right length.  If I can, exposed bolts and nuts would be best because no glue would be required.

Offline whiskerBox

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Phantom Custom Keyboard Group Buy (CLOSED)
« Reply #599 on: Mon, 12 December 2011, 02:08:41 »
I haven't bought from them, but they look nice! If no gluing was required then one could be able to switch out different colored layers if they had multiple pieces thus offering more customization. This project is sick and I really cant wait to get my hands on one of these cases. There are also so many options for USB cables and different color wraps that we should probably expect ripster to come spam his McKey effect thread lol.
"I'm on a mission to bring down GH's anarchy of moderators" -RIPSTER jr.