Adopt a Keycap Legend with Cherry Replica Font! (Cherry font, not some other font)

[hashbaz]

We will also probably want to iterate on some of the legends.

Something I just realized: we will have no way of knowing how good the legends turn out without doing a simultaneous key set group buy (Dolch, I suppose).  Getting prototype keys made is extra above and beyond just the cost of cutting the SVGs.

[hashbaz]

Hell, how much would we have to all pitch in to get NEW !@#$ing MOLDS made, with thick sidewalls, and sprue marks on the BACKSIDE??   (and maybe even a non DCS profile, unless that has become the standard by now)

We've been talking about this for pages now.  It is ridiculously expensive and difficult to make entirely new molds.  It won't happen.

[litster]

We will also probably want to iterate on some of the legends.

Something I just realized: we will have no way of knowing how good the legends turn out without doing a simultaneous key set group buy (Dolch, I suppose).  Getting prototype keys made is extra above and beyond just the cost of cutting the SVGs.

If there is money left from the adoption, we can roll that into making prototype.  If there is not enough left over, then the Dolch replica group buy will need to absorb some of that.

BUT... if we have left over to cover all of that, how about we use the money to make new molds for thicker keys?  How about that?  Huh?  Huh?

[hashbaz]

If there is money left from the adoption, we can roll that into making prototype.  If there is not enough left over, then the Dolch replica group buy will need to absorb some of that.

BUT... if we have left over to cover all of that, how about we use the money to make new molds for thicker keys?  How about that?  Huh?  Huh?

Hey, good idea -- how much could it be, right?  I'll ask Melissa! :doh:

[ReAzem]

I got an idea!

Let's use the extra money to get Melissa a plaque!

I agree with that

[litster]

Why would you want to give her a plague?

[litster]

Speaking of people backing out, the last high bidder just backed out.  it is back to $105.  No more NY Giants.  What was that $105 bidder again?  Please don't make me go back 20 pages to find it on this slow ass server!

[ReAzem]

Because:

Geekhackers,

Melissa from SP does a lot for our community.  It wouldn't take very many of us chipping in to get her a really nice thank-you gift.

[litster]

and mmmty just adopted numpad 0.

[hazeluff]

Speaking of people backing out, the last high bidder just backed out.  it is back to $105.  No more NY Giants.  What was that $105 bidder again?  Please don't make me go back 20 pages to find it on this slow ass server!

RCT?

[litster]

Because:

Oh, plaque, not plague.  That would be mean.

[ReAzem]

Oh, plaque, not plague.  That would be mean.

Show Image

haha didnt notice he said plague

[litster]

remaining orphans:

Numpad 4   
Numpad 6   
Numpad 8   
Numpad 9   
Numpad -   
Numpad /   
Numpad Enter   

Let me know if I missed your adoption applications.

[litster]

Oh, plaque, not plague.  That would be mean.

Show Image

He didn't.  I did.  My stupid joke failed.

[ReAzem]

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 44029[/ATTACH]

[Vornath]

remaining orphans:

Numpad 4   
Numpad 6   
Numpad 8   
Numpad 9   
Numpad -   
Numpad /   
Numpad Enter   

Let me know if I missed your adoption applications.

Wasn't Numpad Enter adopted in post #222?

[captain]

I call bull****.  I'll explain later.

[dorkvader]

and mmmty just adopted numpad 0.

I'll "adopt" the

Numpad 0
Numpad Enter

If that's okay.

----



First the CMstorm pictures, and now this. Don't forget about me, litster!

[hashbaz]

I have to call bull**** on this. For every shot there has to be a mold. So why would it cost any more to make the mold for the cap vs. a mold for the legend???  A CNC mill could make both in two sheets of metal each. Something is fishy with this. :-/

And I in turn call bull**** on you.  I don't think any of us have any real idea how their machinery works or what's involved in making new molds vs. new legends.  It's all idle speculation.

[litster]

I have to call bull**** on this. For every shot there has to be a mold. So why would it cost any more to make the mold for the cap vs. a mold for the legend???  A CNC mill could make both in two sheets of metal each. Something is fishy with this. :-/

You should call Melissa tomorrow to confirm the cost and start another adoption drive.  I bet you will raise more money.

[litster]

----



First the CMstorm pictures, and now this. Don't forget about me, litster!

D'oh!  I wasn't sure if you are fully committed from what you said.  Are you?

I'll "adopt" the

Numpad 0
Numpad Enter

If that's okay.

This is all contingent on my liking what we eventually settle on in terms of the font, though.

Hum, how would that work?  We are going for a font legend that is as close to Cherry as possible, like what we have done with moogle kits.  Is that not what you like?

Yep, that'd be great. I'm very easy to please, but if we end up abandoning the cherry font replica in lieu of comic sans or "space toaster" (My favourite font when I was 7)... Well, I can't sign my name to such an atrocity.

I have no problem with paying for SP to have a better font. I'm not a rabid cherry fanboy. Cherry's font is great, but I'd also be okay with one of many other, more modern fonts. But if we decide to go with a not-cherry font that's really ugly, I'm not going for it.

Sorry, I reread my post, and I realized I sounded like one of those really picky people. I'm not.
---

I replaced the top case in someone's Macbook pro TWICE (under warranty) last week because their up arrow key looked a little crooked. It worked just fine, but was a little visually off. That guy measured it when he picked it up. I'm not like that at all.

[agor]

Ripster really pisses me off in this thread

[litster]

But if you did, you can say "who's your daddy?"

[captain]

We've been talking about this for pages now.  It is ridiculously expensive and difficult to make entirely new molds.  It won't happen.

Who told you that?  The rep. for the company that effectively has the monopoly on doubleshot keycaps for the world?

Does it really behoove her to do anything for us that isn't insanely profitable for Signature Plastics?  

For every shot there has to be a mold. So why would it cost any more to make the mold for the cap vs. a mold for the legend???  A CNC mill could make both in two sheets of metal each. Something is fishy with this. :-/  Very fishy.  

Just a miniscule web searching turns up an entire double shot injection molding machine for $20-$50k shipped FOB from China:

http://cn-only.en.alibaba.com/product/51519280-50336657/PS120_Double_Shot_Injection_Molding_Machine.html

Molds cost $1500-$20k+ made by:
http://epsilonindustries.com/services/injection-mold-fabrication/

But we are talking about keycaps.  Simple (relatively).  So I would assume that they'd be on the lower end of that range (maybe a bad assumption?)

Anyway,  just taking hearsay from the mouth of the horse that needs you to feed it isn't really the wisest choice... and the numbers I found in <5min of searching indicate that we should be able to go into keycap manufacturing business for a total equipment investment of $22k-$70k.  :-D   (Of course, there are other costs involved, but my point here is: there is a company listed above that will make custom molds with $20k+ as the top of their range.

Someone in Germany should just go steal the old Cherry molds!  Now THERE's an idea!  ;-)

[litster]

Srsly, you should call Melissa tomorrow.  And then when she tells you how much it would cost, you should call bull**** on her.  Tell that to her face if you are on skype with web cam on.  And then ask her does it really behoove her to do anything for us that isn't insanely profitable for Signature Plastics?

And then give her a plague.  

And then you start a new keycap manufacturing business.  We promise we will start sending all our keycaps orders to you, because you would not make it insanely profitable.

Tell us if she really is a mermaid.  Maybe that's why she is fishy.

[hashbaz]

Who told you that?  The rep. for the company that effectively has the monopoly on doubleshot keycaps for the world?

Does it really behoove her to do anything for us that isn't insanely profitable for Signature Plastics?

Yes, and no.  Melissa is who we deal with.  Are you saying we should demand lower prices for new molds?  How will you convince her?

For every shot there has to be a mold. So why would it cost any more to make the mold for the cap vs. a mold for the legend???  A CNC mill could make both in two sheets of metal each. Something is fishy with this. :-/  Very fishy.  

They already have the master molds for their profiles.  They copy those molds with new legends cut into the top.  You are talking about making entirely new master molds.  Two totally different things.

Just a miniscule web searching turns up an entire double shot injection molding machine for $20-$50k shipped FOB from China:

http://cn-only.en.alibaba.com/product/51519280-50336657/PS120_Double_Shot_Injection_Molding_Machine.html

Molds cost $1500-$20k+ made by:
http://epsilonindustries.com/services/injection-mold-fabrication/

$1500 x 11 width+row combinations = $16,500.  We are currently raising money at $10-$20 per legend x 87 legends for a total of $1740.  An order of magnitude less.

But we are talking about keycaps.  Simple (relatively).  So I would assume that they'd be on the lower end of that range (maybe a bad assumption?)

Anyway,  just taking hearsay from the mouth of the horse that needs you to feed it isn't really the wisest choice... and the numbers I found in <5min of searching indicate that we should be able to go into keycap manufacturing business for a total equipment investment of $22k-$70k.  :-D   (Of course, there are other costs involved, but my point here is: there is a company listed above that will make custom molds with $20k+ as the top of their range.

Your own research indicates that even just the equipment and/or molds are out of our price range.  QED.

[mkawa]

hey remember when i told the thick keycap whiners to take it elsewhere? here's me doing it again. ಠ_ಠ

[litster]

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 44050[/ATTACH]

[captain]

BTW, are we going to use Gill Sans as our font?

Because Gill died in 1940, in most parts of the world the typeface became part of the public domain in 2010. In countries where typefaces are not copyrightable (like in the USA) this is not important but in other parts of the world this makes it possible to freely use the original design for any purposes, including creating digitised versions of the typeface. New digitized versions based on the original design may or may not have copyright protection (depending on the given country's view on creative works, and whether they consider visually exact lookalikes "creative" or not), often possessing their own copyright terms.
The name "Gill Sans" is trademarked (No. 1340167 in the USA and No. 0950970 internationally, filed in 1983 by Monotype Corporation) and may not be used to describe the font created.  -- wikipedia

But "Geekhack Vintage Cherry" is not trademarked!  yet.  ;-)

[captain]

Has anyone adopted  and ⌘ yet?

[litster]

[video=vimeo;36788443]http://vimeo.com/36788443[/video]

[hazeluff]

BTW, are we going to use Gill Sans as our font?

Because Gill died in 1940, in most parts of the world the typeface became part of the public domain in 2010. In countries where typefaces are not copyrightable (like in the USA) this is not important but in other parts of the world this makes it possible to freely use the original design for any purposes, including creating digitised versions of the typeface. New digitized versions based on the original design may or may not have copyright protection (depending on the given country's view on creative works, and whether they consider visually exact lookalikes "creative" or not), often possessing their own copyright terms.
The name "Gill Sans" is trademarked (No. 1340167 in the USA and No. 0950970 internationally, filed in 1983 by Monotype Corporation) and may not be used to describe the font created.  -- wikipedia

But "Geekhack Vintage Cherry" is not trademarked!  yet.  ;-)

No we are not using gill sans.

Im not one to get pissed easily at people who threadcrap. But the guys who want thick caps dkbt have to agree with w/e we are saying about their costs etc. But we're here about replicating this font. So if you want thicker key please take it elsewhere. Its not hard to hit the new thread key.

[captain]

We got the message.  makawa's LOD was sufficient.  You don't need a piledriver, even though you'd like a purple one.  ;-P

I didn't think discussing the font was off limits too!  That's absolutely apropos.  What's wrong with Gill Sans?  I like VAG too, but it's probably in copyright in some countries we'd want to sell to... on the other hand, since SP is in USA, I guess we don't need to worry about copyrights!

How did "don't" turn into "dkbt"  Is the BBS broken, or your keyboard?

[hazeluff]

We got the message.  makawa's LOD was sufficient.  You don't need a piledriver, even though you'd like a purple one.  ;-P

I didn't think discussing the font was off limits too!  That's absolutely apropos.  What's wrong with Gill Sans?  I like VAG too, but it's probably in copyright in some countries we'd want to sell to... on the other hand, since SP is in USA, I guess we don't need to worry about copyrights!

How did "don't" turn into "dkbt"  Is the BBS broken, or your keyboard?

Sorry it was two things in one post. Font is obviously still relevent to this thread.

Gill and VAG are close, but aren't as close as we can get it to the cherry font. Also since we have the choice of making the legends and alligning ourselves we might as well. We also need to redesign some of the fonts since they werent designed taking into fact it has to be a single width.

And about my typing: its just me waking up. I was lying on my side typing on my phone.

Yeah I was also a bit groggy and in general bad mood when i wrote that. Sleepyness is the number one thing that makes me a bad person to be dealing with. Also this coursework im doing is getting me down. Bad mood plus seeing the same thing over and over = slightly annoyed me.

[dorkvader]

D'oh!  I wasn't sure if you are fully committed from what you said.  Are you?

Yes, sorry about that. I'm committed, I just wanted to make sure some things were hashed out.
Think of it this way: I like the cherry font, and am committed to getting it made through SP. I don't like other, uglier, fonts (like space toaster), so if we change the font to that I'll pull out.

That's just covering myself, so that no-one's surprised if I pull out if some unexpected and unfortunate design decisions are made.

[hazeluff]

I woke up this morning and realized that if Germans Adopted ME  then Germany would be my Fatherland.
[video=youtube;s2IaFaJrmno]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2IaFaJrmno[/video]

 Ich Bin Uber Alles Nummer Einz!

Ja wohl.

Meine Schlange is sehr lang. Und Ripster ist ein Kartoffeln.

Bitte Schon.

[turbocharged]

Ja wohl.

Meine Schlange is sehr lang. Und Ripster ist ein Kartoffeln.

Bitte Schon.

lol...I'm not very good at speaking german, but that's pretty funny..had to look up Kartoffeln though.

[mkawa]

i would be very happy if someone adopted a ⌘ modifier key

[sth]

i would be very happy if someone adopted a ⌘ modifier key

I might be interested in that as well.. depending on the cost. Not sure if 1.25 is going to cost more than the 2 keys I already claimed.
Also they would have to have MUCH smaller legends than the ROUND3 command keys I have. The st-john's arms legends are comically large.

[captain]

I woke up this morning and realized that if Germans Adopted ME  then Germany would be my Fatherland.
[video=youtube;s2IaFaJrmno]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2IaFaJrmno[/video]

 Ich Bin Uber Alles Nummer Einz!

[video=youtube:6WujNMG-xiI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WujNMG-xiI[/video]

[rknize]

Who wants to hear about the history of Vag rounded in my subforum?  ItlnStln does.

However since it is the Apple Keyboard Font I have a feeling it won't fly with the Geekhack Windows/Linux crowd.

These really are like commercials.

[litster]

If people want to adopt the apple keycap legend, I can add them to the third column.

[captain]

Who wants to hear about the history of Vag rounded in my subforum?  ItlnStln does.

However since it is the Apple Keyboard Font I have a feeling it won't fly with the Geekhack Windows/Linux crowd.

It was developed for VW.  It's a great font.  I see why Apple chose it.  In fact, it is top of my list for Geekhack Cherry Killer 2012, but the wankers [strike]over t[/strike]*here just want to copy Cherry, not innovate. I am on the verge of setting up my painting studio again, and just hand painting my own damn keycaps!

But why do you deliberately set people up to rebel?  Why not write: However, since Apple has some of the best Industrial designers in the world, and they chose it, we might want to consider copying them, instead of Cherry, particularly since we will not even be trying to change the SP profile of GCK2012.

* I thought I was in ripster's Lick My Typeface forum.  ;-P

[captain]

To paraphrase the late Patrick Swayze: Nobody puts typeface in the corner!!  Please, can we have BIG, centered, fonts for GeekHack Cherry Killer 2012?

Futura is the RADICAL Anti-Nazi font.
(Attachment Link) 44101[/ATTACH]

But too difficult to reproduce using Signature Plastics cutters.

And some would accuse me of being a Filco Fanboi.
(Attachment Link) 44100[/ATTACH]

At some point too it IS copyrighted and licensed.

Melissa might ask.

I don't think it is too difficult to reproduce.  You KNOW SP's procedure, right?  It's in ripster's Lick My Font Baby forum.

Also, unless I am horribly misinformed, fonts are not copyrightable in the USA, which is where SP exists.  We should not have to worry AT ALL about copyrights on fonts, only on trademarked images, alas.

Here, let's all get informed:

http://www.howdesign.com/design-business/business-issues/fontpiracy/

So, I believe I just proved ripster... wait for it.... WRONG!  ;-P
Typefaces cannot be copyrighted.  They can be licensed, and I would suggest that we offer to pay the designer of whatever typeface we choose a reasonable fee.  Unless it's Adobe, and then screw them.  (sorry, going off track)

Getting back on track, here are some questions we need to answer:

1) Do we just want to copy Cherry's old font, so that we can put it on keys that do not match the Cherry profile, so we can sort of make Frankenstein keyboards out of old Cherry keys and new SP keys?

2) Do we want to INNOVATE, and create the best damn looking keycaps the world has ever seen, and maybe some day work toward putting our GCK2012 font on some nice thick PBT keycaps?

PS: let me preempt the PBT double-shot naysayers.  As far as I can tell there is no REAL reason that a plastics manufacturer cannot do double-shot PBT.  Just because they do not currently do it, or one of them refuses to do it , does not mean it cannot be done, and done well.  Hell, while we're at it, we should look into other plastics too.  ABS and PBT and POM are not, by far, the only plastics in the game.  In fact, new plastics are being developed every year!  Someone with more intimate petrochemical knowledge than I should be researching and reporting on this for us.

[guilleguillaume]

Why don't you open your own thread about keycap legends?

This one is for CHERRY keycap legend.

[litster]

Sorry, mmmty, I added dorkvader back to numpad 0 and numpad Enter.  Would you please picture a different key to adopt?  List updated.  Thanks.

[captain]

Why don't you open your own thread about keycap legends?

This one is for CHERRY keycap legend.

Ah. Well, that's one French Spanish? vote for

1) Do we just want to copy Cherry's old font, so that we can put it on keys that do not match the Cherry profile, so we can sort of make Frankenstein keyboards out of old Cherry keys and new SP keys?

Is that how the Big Three here feel?  If so, gg is right, and I will cease with the "off topic" commentary. If, however, the goal is to create the best keycap font possible, I'll stick around.

Do votes from countries whose copyright laws would kill this project count?  ;-)

[hashbaz]

1) Do we just want to copy Cherry's old font, so that we can put it on keys that do not match the Cherry profile, so we can sort of make Frankenstein keyboards out of old Cherry keys and new SP keys?

2) Do we want to INNOVATE, and create the best damn looking keycaps the world has ever seen, and maybe some day work toward putting our GCK2012 font on some nice thick PBT keycaps?

Copying Futura is no more innovative than copying Cherry's font.  And right now we want to copy Cherry's font -- this project was spawned directly out of the Dolch replica group buy.  If we're successful, then there's no reason we can't do Futura or some other truly innovative thing in six months or a year.

PS: let me preempt the PBT double-shot naysayers.  As far as I can tell there is no REAL reason that a plastics manufacturer cannot do double-shot PBT.  Just because they do not currently do it, or one of them refuses to do it , does not mean it cannot be done, and done well.  Hell, while we're at it, we should look into other plastics too.  ABS and PBT and POM are not, by far, the only plastics in the game.  In fact, new plastics are being developed every year!  Someone with more intimate petrochemical knowledge than I should be researching and reporting on this for us.

Then find someone to do it, and report back.  You will make a lot of us very happy.  Saying "I see no reason why X" isn't the same thing as making X happen.

1) Do we just want to copy Cherry's old font, so that we can put it on keys that do not match the Cherry profile, so we can sort of make Frankenstein keyboards out of old Cherry keys and new SP keys?

Again, yes that is what we want to do.  We already have moogle kits.  If we do the entire key set we won't have to do frankenboards anymore.

Is that how the Big Three here feel?  If so, gg is right, and I will cease with the "off topic" commentary. If, however, the goal is to create the best keycap font possible, I'll stick around.

I'm pretty sure it's just you and ripster campaigning for a different font.

[Zehkul]

frankenboards

LOL!

(Yeah, I’m Bavarian)

[demik]

So copying cherry font  is not innovation but copying another font is? You got some explaining to do captain.