Author Topic: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.  (Read 181515 times)

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Offline bpiphany

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #100 on: Tue, 04 September 2012, 03:10:57 »
Open the keyboard, unplug the old controller from the socket, plug this new one in, close it back up, and THEN play. :P

There is no soldering required?

I said I would do the soldering, wasn't counting on quite this many... But no, there will be no soldering unless you really want to =D Let's just say I won't be finishing them in one day.
« Last Edit: Tue, 04 September 2012, 03:14:27 by bpiphany »

Offline Surreal Killa

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #101 on: Tue, 04 September 2012, 04:25:23 »
Okay. Well if there's no soldering I'm down to buy one. How much?
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Offline modulor

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #102 on: Tue, 04 September 2012, 09:06:35 »
I might just have to get a Filco or 2 just to do this.

That's my plan :)
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Offline fruktstund

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #103 on: Tue, 04 September 2012, 09:18:33 »
I didn't think I was interested until just now, when I happened to realize I'm sick of software remapping my caps lock to control. :)

So, I'm in for one!
I'll also talk to all Filco possessing friends I have and see if they're also interested, even though I doubt they are.  :))

Offline bnp70kr

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #104 on: Tue, 04 September 2012, 10:37:56 »
Very intersting.
I'm in for one!

Offline Matt3o

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #105 on: Tue, 04 September 2012, 11:37:48 »
I wanted to sell my filco... but now I'm really tempted to get this board instead. this forum kills my wallet...

Offline harrison

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #106 on: Tue, 04 September 2012, 13:23:43 »
if there's an option to do the soldering myself (reduced or not, doesn't matter) i'd be all for it.  i like getting my hands dirty.
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Offline Surreal Killa

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #107 on: Tue, 04 September 2012, 13:30:52 »
I hate soldering. I always destroy my stuff. :(
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Offline bpiphany

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #108 on: Tue, 04 September 2012, 13:49:39 »
Okay. Well if there's no soldering I'm down to buy one. How much?

I think the $20 price tag is still reasonable (+shipping). I'm sure there will be a few returns or forwards from people not getting it to work properly, and a few odd ones just screwing me over or something. So yes, there is a small safety margin in that price, but I won't be able to afford more than a few hick-ups. I will add your name to the interest list for now.

if there's an option to do the soldering myself (reduced or not, doesn't matter) i'd be all for it.  i like getting my hands dirty.

Good spirit =D I could send you everything un-soldered, surely at a somewhat reduced price (free shipping perhaps). If you do the soldering yourself you also cannot blame me for screwing it up, which I don't mind at all. This is also a safe way to make sure your shipment will be in the first batch *hint, hint*.

Offline Appeac

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #109 on: Tue, 04 September 2012, 14:04:26 »
Not sure where else to ask this...

I am interested in replicating a hardware version of this software http://www.onehandkeyboard.org/download/
Specifically, when the spacebar is held down, it reveals a second layer under the left hand side which mirrors the right hand keys onto it. This is all fine and dandy, but the method it actually sends a "space" keypress is by timing out. If the space is held for more than 2 seconds or so, it will send the space code. Is this doable on this board?
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Offline alaricljs

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #110 on: Tue, 04 September 2012, 14:44:33 »
I believe Hasu's firmware has very similar facility with layer switches also being real key presses under certain circumstances.
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Offline Appeac

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #111 on: Tue, 04 September 2012, 14:55:12 »
I believe Hasu's firmware has very similar facility with layer switches also being real key presses under certain circumstances.

Thanks. I'll look more into it. If not, I'll have to break out the dremel and add another thumb button.
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Offline alaricljs

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #112 on: Tue, 04 September 2012, 14:57:54 »
It does, but somewhat differently. Link to source layer.c
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Offline nebo

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #113 on: Tue, 04 September 2012, 15:34:28 »
Are there already any decent firmwares out that could be linked in this thread? I'm interested but not sure what is already out that I could mess with.

Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #114 on: Tue, 04 September 2012, 15:43:03 »
I'd like to solder everything on myself as well.

Offline bpiphany

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #115 on: Tue, 04 September 2012, 16:09:00 »
Are there already any decent firmwares out that could be linked in this thread? I'm interested but not sure what is already out that I could mess with.

There is Hasu's code which I haven't really looked at.
The code for the ErgoDox by ic07 that is also pretty advanced.
And there is the very simple Teensy keyboard code that I have written =)

I'd like to solder everything on myself as well.

Noted =)

Offline Game Theory

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #116 on: Tue, 04 September 2012, 21:09:44 »
I am in for 1.  (maybe 2)
... he's just a poor kid from the stupid ages.
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Offline Surreal Killa

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #117 on: Tue, 04 September 2012, 22:32:25 »
Yes, I am interested. :)
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Offline DarkShot

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #118 on: Tue, 04 September 2012, 23:38:22 »
After some thought, I'm down for one!

I don't program though, so it'll be a learning experience to figure out how to get stuff going the way I want!
  Rest well Nate

Offline daerid

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #119 on: Wed, 05 September 2012, 11:25:04 »
I'm in for one for sure, and if these are compatible with the Quickfire Rapid, I'm in for 3.

Offline alaricljs

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #120 on: Wed, 05 September 2012, 11:43:12 »
No QF Rapid, they made the connection to the main board 2 double-row headers instead of 2 single row headers.  grrrrr
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Offline nebo

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #121 on: Wed, 05 September 2012, 12:02:44 »
Yeah I'm for sure in for one. Could give my board different language layers.

Offline bpiphany

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #122 on: Wed, 05 September 2012, 14:17:13 »
I'm in for one for sure, and if these are compatible with the Quickfire Rapid, I'm in for 3.
No QF Rapid, they made the connection to the main board 2 double-row headers instead of 2 single row headers.  grrrrr
Sorry 'bout that...

Yeah I'm for sure in for one. Could give my board different language layers.
This may not be as easy as you might be thinking, unfortunately =P You are still tied down by the language map the OS is set to. The keyboard has nothing to do with how the OS decides to interpret key presses. If your OS for example is set to a US layout you will have a hard time getting for example Ωn and the such. Those were actually all available in my Swedish layout. So if you can find one where all characters you are interested are at least hidden away on some layer already you could probably get it to work. Hacking your own layout on the OS side may be an easier way in this case. Or a combo of a custom language layout and a programmable controller of course ;D

Offline nebo

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #123 on: Wed, 05 September 2012, 14:21:12 »
Yeah I'm for sure in for one. Could give my board different language layers.
This may not be as easy as you might be thinking, unfortunately =P You are still tied down by the language map the OS is set to. The keyboard has nothing to do with how the OS decides to interpret key presses. If your OS for example is set to a US layout you will have a hard time getting for example Ωn and the such. Those were actually all available in my Swedish layout. So if you can find one where all characters you are interested are at least hidden away on some layer already you could probably get it to work. Hacking your own layout on the OS side may be an easier way in this case. Or a combo of a custom language layout and a programmable controller of course ;D
Meh, I program for a living and though I've never done keyboard firmware I don't think it'll be that hard. Make two layouts and put them on separate layers. Have a keypress like shift+menu swap the layout. I mean, Korean keyboards have that by default, shouldn't be that hard.

Offline alaricljs

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #124 on: Wed, 05 September 2012, 14:23:14 »
Macro keys that send alt codes?
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Offline bpiphany

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #125 on: Wed, 05 September 2012, 14:29:58 »
Meh, I program for a living and though I've never done keyboard firmware I don't think it'll be that hard. Make two layouts and put them on separate layers. Have a keypress like shift+menu swap the layout. I mean, Korean keyboards have that by default, shouldn't be that hard.

=D You sure have a good start having programming skills. All I am saying is that pure key remapping is a lot more powerful on the OS side. I kinda sorta know how to create custom layout charts in Ubuntu. It's excessively messy =P I have no idea about Windows or OSX.

The controller is in some regards better off for creating macros I think. This can of course also be done with AutoHotkey and the likes. I never used any of those though.

If you can somehow send a macro from the keyboard to change layout on the OS side that would probably be a possible way of solving the problem even without adding any extra layers on the keyboard.

Offline dorkvader

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #126 on: Wed, 05 September 2012, 21:44:25 »
Macro keys that send alt codes?
Alt codes are for windows users :p
---
Bpiphany: Have you thought about a CMstorm GB after this one? I can get some good measurements to see if that chip will fit with that extra row of pins. There are some other options of course.

Offline nebo

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #127 on: Thu, 06 September 2012, 16:01:34 »
Macro keys that send alt codes?
Easier just to send 0xf2 scancode. I don't ever use the menu key, I'll just map that to it.

EDIT - I guess Windows is capable of doing that with the default keyboard language as Korean and using the right alt key. Guess I have to hunt down an alt sized keycap with 한/영 on it instead. :)
« Last Edit: Thu, 06 September 2012, 16:46:53 by nebo »

Offline bpiphany

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #128 on: Thu, 06 September 2012, 17:13:19 »
Bpiphany: Have you thought about a CMstorm GB after this one? I can get some good measurements to see if that chip will fit with that extra row of pins. There are some other options of course.

It's probably the same size, exact same controller, same row/column setup, same everything, just the header pins a bit different.. A standard spacing though.

The problem is that it is already a bit tight to fit the ATmega32u4 chip anywhere on the daughter board. That extra row of pins is going to make matters worse. And I don't own a CMstorm to test anything out on...


The news for today is that I got both a brand spanking new tenkeyless in good working condition to test the controllers on. And I received a shipment from DigiKey with 25 sets of ATmegas and multiplexers, as well as resistors and capacitors in huge amounts. Full rolls of 0603-components are not that expensive... $7.50 for 5000 resistors. There is just no way I am going to use up the 22Ω ones during my lifetime =D 10kΩ probably goes a bit quicker.

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #129 on: Thu, 06 September 2012, 20:26:58 »
I think its safe to say that interest exceeded your expectations.  Is there any chance of a price break?

Also, those SMD leads are awfully small.  How on earth do you guys plan on soldering those by hand?

Offline alaricljs

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #130 on: Thu, 06 September 2012, 20:38:57 »
It's actually not that hard.  I did it after watching 2 vids on youtube  :)
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Offline DarkShot

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #131 on: Thu, 06 September 2012, 20:45:20 »
It's actually not that hard.  I did it after watching 2 vids on youtube  :)

This.

Once you know how to do it and also have the proper equipment it's a cakewalk.
  Rest well Nate

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #132 on: Thu, 06 September 2012, 20:54:22 »
You must have steadier hands than me.  I've made a mess of leads larger than that plenty of times.

Offline alaricljs

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #133 on: Thu, 06 September 2012, 20:56:51 »
Proper tools is all you need... you should not be holding your arms up when soldering.  The heel of your hand should be resting on something while you work the solder and iron just like a pencil.
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Offline Surreal Killa

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #134 on: Fri, 07 September 2012, 00:04:30 »
I've never had great penmanship. That's why I like keyboards! Seriously though, people think my handwriting is that of a child's (typically age 5). My soldering iron is big and fat and I do hold it up, probably why I always wreck things. Also, my hands quiver when I concentrate. When I make a cup of coffee, half usually ends up on the floor by the time I get to the couch. It's sad. :'(
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Offline alaricljs

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #135 on: Fri, 07 September 2012, 00:25:58 »
Hmmm, I don't drink caffeine but my penmanship is non-existent.  People ask me if I'm a doctor when I sign for credit payments.  A big soldering iron can make things difficult.  At the very least try resting your forearms or elbows.
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Offline Surreal Killa

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #136 on: Fri, 07 September 2012, 00:33:29 »
What model of soldering iron do you use? Mine's actually a 6-in-1 gas torch, apparently. Dremel 2000 VersaTip Gas Torch. Mostly I use it for melting things, haha.
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Offline alaricljs

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #137 on: Fri, 07 September 2012, 00:39:31 »
JFC... I have a Weller WLC100 that I am pondering replacing with something a bit more modern.  The Weller has issues retaining the tip and is a little slow to heat and the temp adjustment is brain-dead.
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Offline bpiphany

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #138 on: Fri, 07 September 2012, 01:43:53 »
I think its safe to say that interest exceeded your expectations.  Is there any chance of a price break?
I was counting a bit low to start with, but yes parts will be a bit cheaper in these amounts. No one has actually paid yet though, and it remains to be seen how many comes through on that part. I will probably order ~100 PCBs. They are one of the more expensive parts of this build. I got all the tiny bits in huge amounts by now, and I think I will order the larger components for 25 units at a time. That way I can build and ship completed units spreading the spending and receiving of money a bit =)

Solder ten or even twenty units I would probably have done just for the fun of it. But I think the appeal is going to be pretty much gone by the eightieth one =P Also I didn't know about all the pull-down resistors when I got myself into this... Pretty much doubled the components.

I was planning on using left over cardboard and a bunch of tape for packaging. That would have worked for twenty units perhaps. Now I have already ordered bubble mailers, address stickers, anti-static bags and such. They are not expensive either, but all small stuff adds up. Solder and flux, and the list goes on. Counting my time, I'm going to work below minimum wage for sure. I don't mind doing the fun part for free. (The fun part is going to turn a chore after a while though.)

I already promised a reduced price for un-soldered units, so you may consider that ;)

Also, those SMD leads are awfully small.  How on earth do you guys plan on soldering those by hand?
The 0603 footprint, or 1208 in "metric" is just that 1.2x0.8 mm. They are the hardest part. Not so much because of they are hard soldering, more because they disappear if you look away for a second =P The TQFP package is 0.8 mm pitch, and that is wide and nice to solder. The SOIC is 1.27 mm pitch and just a breeze =D It takes some care lining them up but after that it is quick to hit all the pads.

As other people have said already. It's all about equipment, hand support, and patience. And flux, flux is your friend =) I also need to figure out a good way to clean all the boards afterwards. Perhaps my mom has some nice ultrasonic cleaner at work...

JFC... I have a Weller WLC100 that I am pondering replacing with something a bit more modern.  The Weller has issues retaining the tip and is a little slow to heat and the temp adjustment is brain-dead.
I was considering this unit when I bought my soldering station. I looks spiffy =)
http://se.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Apex-Tool-Group-Formerly-Cooper-Tools/WSM1/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt%252biMJH3c40u4FNIuihPETkmwHJ24%252bzVfc%3d
It is a little cheaper than the one I finally got (this station but the WMRP pen)
http://se.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Apex-Tool-Group-Formerly-Cooper-Tools/WD1001/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt%252biMJH3c40u3QdK2QEJSNOCMFkybXQJ00%3d
But I got that on a discount. I could probably have gotten their newer model for almost the same price if I had bothered to fix the 120/240V mains problem. Not sure I wanted to go there though..
http://se.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Apex-Tool-Group-Formerly-Cooper-Tools/WX1012/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMt%252biMJH3c40u4FNIuihPETklmKNJCCLGU0%3d

I really like my station. The cord is very thin and flexible, and the tips are extremely fast to swap. I have the 1.2 mm chisel tip it came with, and got a 0.8 mm and a 2 mm chisel tip extra to have a good span of tip widths.




Yesterday I added the software routine for jumping to the bootloader as well. That was pretty easy actually =) I bricked a chip in the process though =P I think it may actually be salvaged with the correct programmer. I set some fuses to an undefined state... Never copy paste from the Internet x_x

I also tried out the Windows FLIP bootloading tool from Atmel. It worked pretty smooth after I finally managed to install it properly.
« Last Edit: Fri, 07 September 2012, 10:16:16 by bpiphany »

Offline Surreal Killa

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #139 on: Fri, 07 September 2012, 05:14:40 »
Where's the link to pay?
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Offline metalliqaz

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #140 on: Fri, 07 September 2012, 06:35:56 »

Offline bpiphany

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #141 on: Fri, 07 September 2012, 06:46:00 »
Tada, I'm typing on the new Tenkeyless I picked up at the post office yesterday. The controller socket is hooked up through wires to a breadboard sitting next to it =D Unfortunately I don't have a camera here, but it looks a bit funky. I haven't hooked up the LEDs yet, just a few more minutes I hope...

I will start gathering money at the pace I finish mounting components. I will probably PM each and everyone asking to mail me a order confirmation and address info and so on. A mail conversation will be a lot easier to follow.


Edit: The controller in this new Filco is actually marked "FKB 87888991 DB V4.0". It seems identical though, both in function, components and visible traces. The old controller works equally well plugged into the new motherboard. And the motherboards both have the same "CST-F87/88/89/91-MB V1.1" marking

Edit: Both LEDs are working just fine =D
« Last Edit: Fri, 07 September 2012, 06:57:06 by bpiphany »

Offline alaricljs

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #142 on: Fri, 07 September 2012, 11:25:38 »
Given CM's recent change to not slathering logos all over their boards I foresee an increased interest in getting this same treatment for the QF Rapid.
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Offline oneproduct

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #143 on: Fri, 07 September 2012, 12:41:17 »
I would be interested in one.
Layout: Colemak
Fastest typing speed: 131 WPM on typeracer, 136 WPM on 10fastfingers.
Daily driver: Filco Tenkeyless MX Brown with ergonomically weighted, lubed springs.
Ergo keyboards: Truly Ergonomic, Kinesis Advantage, Ergodox

Offline Feints

  • Posts: 11
  • Location: America
Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #144 on: Sat, 08 September 2012, 13:33:09 »
I'm interested but since I'm new to this fourm and don't really understand how these group buys work, can you explain to me how the ordering goes?

How do we send our money I mean.

Offline bpiphany

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #145 on: Sat, 08 September 2012, 13:57:30 »
I will order components and build a number at a time. When I have completed units to sell I will ask for money. Building them all is going to take a while. Paypal is probably the most reasonable payment option for non-EU citizens. I think there are no transaction fees for inter-EU bank transactions, but I am not completely sure. Paypal transaction fees are ~3-5% depending on which country you send me money from, plus $0.30. I'll add you to the interest list.

I'm going to order the PCBs on Monday. They will take ~14 days to arrive here and then I will start soldering, programming, and testing...

Offline Feints

  • Posts: 11
  • Location: America
Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #146 on: Sat, 08 September 2012, 14:01:02 »
Okay, sounds great, thanks for the information!

Offline dorkvader

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #147 on: Sat, 08 September 2012, 20:43:54 »
I will order components and build a number at a time. When I have completed units to sell I will ask for money. Building them all is going to take a while. Paypal is probably the most reasonable payment option for non-EU citizens. I think there are no transaction fees for inter-EU bank transactions, but I am not completely sure. Paypal transaction fees are ~3-5% depending on which country you send me money from, plus $0.30. I'll add you to the interest list.

I'm going to order the PCBs on Monday. They will take ~14 days to arrive here and then I will start soldering, programming, and testing...
So, you are not only designing and making these yourself, you are also testing them before sending them out, and you're not asking for a dime until they're ready, and not only that, but you're charging a really inexpensive rate?

You, sir, are a hero of altruism.

Offline alaricljs

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #148 on: Sat, 08 September 2012, 20:44:49 »
I'd swing by and spring for dinner some time but that's a hell of a trip  ;)
Filco w/ Imsto thick PBT
Ducky 1087XM PCB+Plate, w/ Matias "Quiet Click" spring-swapped w/ XM Greens

Offline bpiphany

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #149 on: Sun, 09 September 2012, 03:27:34 »
You are very kind guys =) I think the testing is going to be very quick. I'll just pop the new controller into a board, use that Aqua KeyTest, see that all keys register. Probably do some quick jabbing to see if any seem to behave strange. Soldering is going to be the time consuming part. There is a small margin to keep me out of trouble, but I'm working very cheap =D Even if I just took off with the potential 100 x $20 that would be a pretty lousy salary...
« Last Edit: Sun, 09 September 2012, 04:32:26 by bpiphany »