Author Topic: [GB] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller - All gone, that's it folks.  (Read 187500 times)

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Online skriefal

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #50 on: Tue, 28 August 2012, 23:13:58 »
See Reply # 9 in this thread...

Offline mickd

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #51 on: Tue, 28 August 2012, 23:50:44 »
Sounds great! Interested in one :)

Offline bpiphany

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #52 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 01:39:15 »
Hey, this should also work on a CM Storm Quickfire Rapid (really fast, gogogo, super speed) model.
The mounting pins would need to be identical. And the matrix would need to be very close to identical for it to work at all. If that is not the case there is still the option to build a cruder version, using just a regular Teensy plus some multiplexing component to expand the number of IO lines. It will be more or less exactly the same thing.

You know, it's been so long since I had my Filco apart that I don't recall what it looks like... I'm ASSuming that the controller for a std. ANSI 104-key board is completely different and therefore I have no use for this controller?
No, the full size boards have another daughter board. It uses the same controller but is totally different. Actually harder to fit an ATmega onto I think. Unfortunate since I am a full size proponent myself..

I'm a little confused on how this works.  How is the reprogramming done?  [Yes, I've searched and haven't found much.]  Is a firmware rebuild and reload required?  I'm a software developer and don't mind tweaking and rebuilding firmware... just like to know what's involved before I commit.

Definitely interested in at least one unit if the programming/load process isn't too difficult.
You will need to have a hex-file, a compiled firmware, that is loaded to the chip through an interfacing software on your computer. With the Teensy this is done with their own TeensyLoader. With the stock Atmel or open source LUFA bootloader there are different programs. I've tried the Linux ones and got that working just fine. I still need to try on Windows, but that should be no problem either.

There are several other keyboard codes written for the Teensy controller. They should all be pretty easily adopted to run on this. The basic idea of a keyboard firmware is:
  • Read all keys
  • Decide if anything changed, not only chattering (debouncing)
  • Decide what keyboard presses to send to the computer.
To do step one the controller needs to know which pins are connected to what in the keyboard matrix, a grid of keys and diodes. All Cherry switch matrices are basically the same. So the big difference between different keyboards is just defining which pins to send probing signals on, and which to scan to read pressed keys. This should be quite straight forward to change since it should be a separate section of the code in a good software design. This should also only need to be done once for each firmware code.

Step three really is where the magic of using a programmable controller comes in. "Ah, so Scroll Lock is pressed. Then I will send these other key presses as numpad keys instead of their usual identities.", or in whatever way you can think of (down to what is possible to do purely programming wise, and that is a lot).

I will load some basic firmware onto the controller before shipping. Probably just something that mimics the original controller.

you think you can get it down to 20$ stuffed/unit?
I want to get one or two.  Is $20 including components or just the PCB?
This is nothing like ordering a mega large keyboard PCB. It is ~ 2.2" x 1.3", they are super cheap =D I still sort of haven't factored in shipping from China, but with these amounts that should divide down to manageable amounts. The ATmega is the only expensive component at ~$6
« Last Edit: Wed, 29 August 2012, 01:45:21 by bpiphany »

Offline damorgue

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #53 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 01:43:13 »
Hey Bphiphany, I never got an answer in the DT thread, how much memory is available on the teensy for macros and such? After the firmware is loaded, approximately how much is left I guess would be the relevant question. As far as I know, all Cherry programmable ones are limited to about 16 characters.

Offline bpiphany

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #54 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 01:51:55 »
Hey Bphiphany, I never got an answer in the DT thread, how much memory is available on the teensy for macros and such? After the firmware is loaded, approximately how much is left I guess would be the relevant question. As far as I know, all Cherry programmable ones are limited to about 16 characters.
Sorry, didn't catch that =) There is 32kB of flash memory on the chip. The non-Teensy bootloaders take 4kB of that, and then the actual code takes some. The current Phantom code is ~9kB with a single layer. That would leave almost 20kB for other layers and macros, and the actual code to implement the functionality. There is also 1kB of EEPROM memory available for the controller to use. I haven't messed around with the EEPROM myself though. This is the part of the memory that can actually be modified at runtime, the flash memory is only written during flashing the chip. There is also 2.5kB of SRAM for the actual running program to use.
« Last Edit: Wed, 29 August 2012, 01:54:15 by bpiphany »

Offline damorgue

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #55 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 01:54:40 »
Large strings then :)

I suppose if someone makes a more advance debouncing code, or code for layers or other functions that code might take up some considerable space too, but at least there is still a lot of memory left. Nice that it is shared too. Cherry have implemented a restriction on a "per key" basis. You can have 16 characters on every key, but if you only have one key with a macro it won't go above 16 characters. each switch has its allocated space.
« Last Edit: Thu, 06 September 2012, 15:09:35 by damorgue »

Offline bpiphany

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #56 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 02:05:04 »
Debouncing is actually not a huge thing =) The Phantom firmware has a proper algorithm for it already. (As well as other codes written by competent people like HaSu, Soarer, and others I believe...)

Offline damorgue

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #57 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 02:13:19 »
I expect that a lot of code will be added in the future as people realize that it can do anything. Are there any unused pins on the teensy, for instance the analogue input that can measure the voltage? One could make all kinds of shenanigan with it. Attach a photo resistor and use the value to adjust the brightness of the LEDs, a potentiometer to adjust the voltage on analogue in and use that value to adjust the brightness, or a thermistor which would be weird etc. I expect the amount of somewhat useless functions to grow a lot in the future when people realize the capabilities and more people start writing their code, especially when people start to receive their parts.

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #58 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 04:09:28 »
I expect that a lot of code will be added in the future as people realize that it can do anything. Are there any unused pins on the teensy, for instance the analogue input that can measure the voltage? One could make all kinds of shenanigan with it. Attach a photo resistor and use the value to adjust the brightness of the LEDs, a potentiometer to adjust the voltage on analogue in and use that value to adjust the brightness, or a thermistor which would be weird etc. I expect the amount of somewhat useless functions to grow a lot in the future when people realize the capabilities and more people start writing their code, especially when people start to receive their parts.
not to be a downer but i hoped that would happen with the phantom and it really hasnt the only real progress made was the hacked in layer support.

Offline damorgue

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #59 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 04:57:01 »
People haven't really gotten theirs yet, at least not in Europe. The ones who have gotten theirs in the US have barely had any time to get them together. I will surely play around a bit when I get one.

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #60 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 04:59:46 »
I was hopeing someone would port hazu's firmware as it got everything were looking for and more. Though the only thing i need yet for my layout is media keys and mouse buttons.

Offline bpiphany

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #61 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 05:51:55 »
I expect that a lot of code will be added in the future as people realize that it can do anything. Are there any unused pins on the teensy, for instance the analogue input that can measure the voltage? One could make all kinds of shenanigan with it. Attach a photo resistor and use the value to adjust the brightness of the LEDs, a potentiometer to adjust the voltage on analogue in and use that value to adjust the brightness, or a thermistor which would be weird etc. I expect the amount of somewhat useless functions to grow a lot in the future when people realize the capabilities and more people start writing their code, especially when people start to receive their parts.

My hope as well is that people will start making their own codes/contributing to existing codes.

It is not a Teensy. There are 2 (3 stretching it) free IO pins on the controller. None of them are connected to an ADC, and they will be tricky to connect to since you would need to solder wires directly to the legs of the chip...

Offline damorgue

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #62 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 06:09:43 »
Ah, I am still in phantom-thoughts I guess. It uses a teensy which comes with ADC on one pin from the factory, right?

Offline bpiphany

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #63 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 06:18:31 »
Ah, I am still in phantom-thoughts I guess. It uses a teensy which comes with ADC on one pin from the factory, right?

The Teensy (ATmega32u4) actually has 12 ADC pins. The Phantom design uses every last pin on the Teensy. The Teensy itself has the HWB pin bound to ground, which is required to enter the bootloader at reset. (I actually set this design up the same way.) That pin works as a regular IO pin though if you would want to hack into it =) This makes entering the bootloader a bit trickier...

Offline tjweir

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #64 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 08:35:55 »
Ok, looks like I'll have to dust off my Filcos.

I'm in for two please.

Offline litster

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #65 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 16:55:17 »
Please up my IC to 4 please :)

Offline Appeac

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #66 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 16:59:11 »
I would definitely be interested in one.
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Offline N8N

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #67 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 18:46:38 »

It is not a Teensy. There are 2 (3 stretching it) free IO pins on the controller. None of them are connected to an ADC, and they will be tricky to connect to since you would need to solder wires directly to the legs of the chip...

Couldn't you connect those pins to traces on the PCB that "go nowhere" but to holes in the PCB?  Or is the design locked in already?  Just a thought...
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Offline hasu

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #68 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 20:50:28 »
Very impressive!
I think this will get very strong demand here in Japan if Filco users in Japan find this thread.

The Teensy itself has the HWB pin bound to ground, which is required to enter the bootloader at reset. (I actually set this design up the same way.) That pin works as a regular IO pin though if you would want to hack into it =) This makes entering the bootloader a bit trickier...

Actually, how does the bootloader come up? By pushing a button on the controller board like Teensy?
Or there is any trick in your custom LUFA bootloader?
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Offline nolliepoper

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #69 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 22:49:45 »
I am interested.
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Offline dorkvader

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #70 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 23:24:42 »
Hey, this should also work on a CM Storm Quickfire Rapid (really fast, gogogo, super speed) model.
The mounting pins would need to be identical. And the matrix would need to be very close to identical for it to work at all. If that is not the case there is still the option to build a cruder version, using just a regular Teensy plus some multiplexing component to expand the number of IO lines. It will be more or less exactly the same thing.
Here's a picture of my CMstorm controller.

As you can see, it's pretty similar in size/shape to filco. I still don't know about the matrix, though, I can to look into it (if you want to try to include Cmstorm support)
http://i.imm.io/CxMs.jpeg
http://i.imm.io/CxMx.jpeg

Offline litster

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #71 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 00:05:50 »
Filco gen2 controller

2999-0

Offline bpiphany

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #72 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 02:17:29 »
Couldn't you connect those pins to traces on the PCB that "go nowhere" but to holes in the PCB?  Or is the design locked in already?  Just a thought...

Well, Personally I don't really see the point =P And I already took advantage of the fact that they aren't connected to the PCB, drawing traces there. It wouldn't be impossible of course, but they are also the ones that were in the more awkward places to start with...

Very impressive!
I think this will get very strong demand here in Japan if Filco users in Japan find this thread.

Actually, how does the bootloader come up? By pushing a button on the controller board like Teensy?
Or there is any trick in your custom LUFA bootloader?

Thanks =) It isn't that very advanced.. Yes, you still need to short the reset pin to gnd somehow to jump to the bootloader hardware style. The reset and gnd pads on the ISP connector are right next to each other though, so that shouldn't be too hard. That of course requires having the case open. A software jump instruction would be good to have included in the software. I have also been thinking about adding the possibility to attach a reed switch. I have done this on some other keyboards using Teensys. It is quite nifty to just pass a magnet over the correct spot on the case =D

Let's not tell the Japanese until I'm outsourcing the soldering to someone else...

Filco gen2 controller

Thanks =)

Offline bpiphany

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #73 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 02:48:06 »
Here's a picture of my CMstorm controller.

As you can see, it's pretty similar in size/shape to filco. I still don't know about the matrix, though, I can to look into it (if you want to try to include Cmstorm support)
http://i.imm.io/CxMs.jpeg
http://i.imm.io/CxMx.jpeg

That is like a perfect copy of the Filco except they had to go and make the interfacing connectors different. Couldn't they just have made a proper rip-off  =P I think it will be hard to fit the controller between the pins and the other edge of the PCB like I did. Perhaps there can be another CMstorm controller in the future if there is enough interest...

Offline Glissant

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #74 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 03:18:12 »
I'm interested in two of these.

Offline alaricljs

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #75 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 09:49:26 »
Damn those ODM unique design requirements.
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Offline priyadi

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #76 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 22:03:53 »
Interested in one.
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Offline dorkvader

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #77 on: Fri, 31 August 2012, 00:48:07 »
Here's a picture of my CMstorm controller.

As you can see, it's pretty similar in size/shape to filco. I still don't know about the matrix, though, I can to look into it (if you want to try to include Cmstorm support)
http://i.imm.io/CxMs.jpeg
http://i.imm.io/CxMx.jpeg

That is like a perfect copy of the Filco except they had to go and make the interfacing connectors different. Couldn't they just have made a proper rip-off  =P I think it will be hard to fit the controller between the pins and the other edge of the PCB like I did. Perhaps there can be another CMstorm controller in the future if there is enough interest...
Darn, they got to ruin our fun again! I guess I'll have to just print my own or something. Chalk up another tiny difference.

Offline Tenkey

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #78 on: Fri, 31 August 2012, 01:38:28 »
Put me down for two of these

Offline modulor

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #79 on: Fri, 31 August 2012, 08:14:45 »
Interested in one
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Offline harrison

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #80 on: Fri, 31 August 2012, 08:26:09 »
absolutely in for 1, possibly 2 depending on the price.
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Offline Nunez

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #81 on: Sat, 01 September 2012, 04:08:19 »
In for 2!
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Offline bpiphany

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #82 on: Sat, 01 September 2012, 04:29:59 »
I already posted about it on deskthority, but I ran in to a small obstacle when I wired everything up on a breadboard to try it out. The diodes on the main PCB are reversed to what I first thought. This isn't complete disaster or anything, I just need to use pull-down resistor instead of pull-up resistors on the controller input pins. There are built in pull-up resistors, but pull-down resistors I need to add myself. They are very cheap, but it is going to take some extra time soldering all 18 of them =P I also had to go past the electronics store to get some "active high" BCD converters instead of the active low I had at home.

The bottom line is, everything seem to be working fine at the moment. No need to worry =) I also ordered a new tenkeyless to be able to test the design out more porperly. My only tenkeyless is completely de-soldered and a bit flimsy to work with... It's nice to see the big interest, already looking forward to the full week of soldering little resistors... =D

Offline Autolyze

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #83 on: Sat, 01 September 2012, 13:12:45 »
I'm in for at least two!

Offline litster

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #84 on: Sat, 01 September 2012, 17:34:30 »
bpiphany, how much more would it be if we pay for SMD soldering at the factory?

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #85 on: Sat, 01 September 2012, 17:52:55 »
At that price, I may as well.  I love to hack on that kind of stuff.  Put me down.

Offline cix

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #86 on: Sat, 01 September 2012, 23:12:12 »
Color me interested

Offline DarkShot

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #87 on: Sun, 02 September 2012, 01:32:17 »
How difficult would it be to program in something like a function layer?

I'm seriously considering getting one of these, even if I don't have a Filco at the moment.
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Offline bpiphany

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #88 on: Sun, 02 September 2012, 02:10:44 »
bpiphany, how much more would it be if we pay for SMD soldering at the factory?

I have no idea, and I have no idea on how to do it either really =) I guess you need to specify the orientation of components and probably some other things as well. And I don't know who to ask to start with..

How difficult would it be to program in something like a function layer?

I'm seriously considering getting one of these, even if I don't have a Filco at the moment.

That is quite easy, and there already are firmwares around which are capable of layers. Hasu's tmk_keyboard does, but I have not looked at that much myself. The ErgoDox firmware has layers as well, that one I know very little of as well and it is probably not as well tested as Hasu's. If I understood correctly it will be capable of doing all sort of custom stuff. The Phantom firmware does not have layer support as of now, but that I can easily add myself =D

Offline strider_ani

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #89 on: Sun, 02 September 2012, 11:48:24 »
Would shipping to Australia be a problem? I'll pay the extra shipping costs.
If not, then put me down for one :)

Offline bpiphany

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #90 on: Sun, 02 September 2012, 12:56:31 »
Would shipping to Australia be a problem? I'll pay the extra shipping costs.
If not, then put me down for one :)

From Sweden all non-European destinations are the same price. It may be possible to get them below  $4, the next weight limit is $8 (USD).

Offline BossBorot

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #91 on: Sun, 02 September 2012, 17:49:18 »
in for three

Offline jcrouse

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #92 on: Sun, 02 September 2012, 18:37:58 »
In for 2 please.

Offline Djuzuh

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #93 on: Sun, 02 September 2012, 18:47:02 »
In for 1 !

Offline tipo33

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #94 on: Mon, 03 September 2012, 11:03:51 »
With this new controler,  would we be able to replace one of the switches with an MX Lock?  Or does the Filco PCB prevent this?
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Offline alaricljs

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #95 on: Mon, 03 September 2012, 11:12:46 »
What the firmware does is entirely up to you, the only difference in an MXLock is that it has some mechanics that keeps the key pressed for you.  How you make the firmware respond to that is entirely up to you.

The main keyboard PCB is just traces, diodes and switches (and 2 LEDs) in a matrix optimized for the Holtek controller.  The atmega can deal with any matrix layout, not needing modifiers on separate traces to deal with NKRO.
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Offline TheProfosist

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #96 on: Mon, 03 September 2012, 11:13:10 »
I might just have to get a Filco or 2 just to do this.

Offline tipo33

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Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #97 on: Mon, 03 September 2012, 11:17:25 »
What the firmware does is entirely up to you, the only difference in an MXLock is that it has some mechanics that keeps the key pressed for you.  How you make the firmware respond to that is entirely up to you.

The main keyboard PCB is just traces, diodes and switches (and 2 LEDs) in a matrix optimized for the Holtek controller.  The atmega can deal with any matrix layout, not needing modifiers on separate traces to deal with NKRO.
  Great!  Thank you.
KM4COL    R.I.P.  SmallFry

Offline 4LI4Z

  • Posts: 123
  • Location: 127.0.0.1
Re: [Interest Check] Filco tenkeyless custom ATmega32u4 controller.
« Reply #98 on: Mon, 03 September 2012, 15:55:39 »
In for 1 please.
BLING BLING GOLD SPRING

ErgoClear Filco MJT2 TKL || Apple EK II || Hall Effect Keypad || Cherry G81 HAD || IBM M SSK

Offline Surreal Killa

  • Posts: 27
  • Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
I'm interested.
« Reply #99 on: Tue, 04 September 2012, 02:04:55 »
Open the keyboard, unplug the old controller from the socket, plug this new one in, close it back up, and THEN play. :P

There is no soldering required?
You're not hardcore! (No, you're not hardcore)
Unless you live hardcore! (Unless you live hardcore)
But the legend of the rent was way hardcore!