Author Topic: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)  (Read 2669496 times)

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Offline ShangWang

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16800 on: Thu, 21 October 2021, 10:45:37 »
How do you remove plate mounted costar stabilizers? I tried removing them from the top, pulling them forward, upward, and backward and they don't budge. Do I have to desolder all my switches to get to the backplate to remove them?

My keyboard:

https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/C1fnGA6NDES.pdf
https://www.hyperxgaming.com/us/keyboards/alloy-fps-pro-mechanical-gaming-keyboard


Offline user 18

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16801 on: Thu, 21 October 2021, 12:59:25 »
How do you remove plate mounted costar stabilizers? I tried removing them from the top, pulling them forward, upward, and backward and they don't budge. Do I have to desolder all my switches to get to the backplate to remove them?

My keyboard:

https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/C1fnGA6NDES.pdf
https://www.hyperxgaming.com/us/keyboards/alloy-fps-pro-mechanical-gaming-keyboard

I don't see an actual picture of the stabilizers on either of those pages -- are you able to take a photo of your stabilizer for reference? Upon some googling, it seems that different SKUs of the HyperX Alloy apparently use different kinds of stabilizers.
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Offline ShangWang

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16802 on: Thu, 21 October 2021, 13:02:17 »
How do you remove plate mounted costar stabilizers? I tried removing them from the top, pulling them forward, upward, and backward and they don't budge. Do I have to desolder all my switches to get to the backplate to remove them?

My keyboard:

https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/C1fnGA6NDES.pdf
https://www.hyperxgaming.com/us/keyboards/alloy-fps-pro-mechanical-gaming-keyboard

I don't see an actual picture of the stabilizers on either of those pages -- are you able to take a photo of your stabilizer for reference? Upon some googling, it seems that different SKUs of the HyperX Alloy apparently use different kinds of stabilizers.
Sorry, here: https://prnt.sc/1wzl9ra

Offline user 18

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16803 on: Thu, 21 October 2021, 13:15:23 »
How do you remove plate mounted costar stabilizers? I tried removing them from the top, pulling them forward, upward, and backward and they don't budge. Do I have to desolder all my switches to get to the backplate to remove them?

My keyboard:

https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/C1fnGA6NDES.pdf
https://www.hyperxgaming.com/us/keyboards/alloy-fps-pro-mechanical-gaming-keyboard

I don't see an actual picture of the stabilizers on either of those pages -- are you able to take a photo of your stabilizer for reference? Upon some googling, it seems that different SKUs of the HyperX Alloy apparently use different kinds of stabilizers.
Sorry, here: https://prnt.sc/1wzl9ra

Okay, those definitely look like costar stabs to me. It looks like that stabilizer is installed upside-down, so the easiest way to get it out will be to push sideways to the right (towards the x/c or m/n keys) on the spike at the left side of your picture (at the bottom of the spacebar). By pushing in that direction, the clip should pop out and rotate itself upward on its own. If that's not working, I'm not sure what else to suggest. It's possible that there's some adhesive or an extra bit of plastic on this design as compared to my much older board with costar stabs, which means the technique I'm used to won't work here. Maybe someone else has experience with this particular board and can chime in.

E: this thread suggests that the HyperX Alloy doesn't use standard costar stabilizers
« Last Edit: Thu, 21 October 2021, 13:17:30 by user 18 »
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Offline ShangWang

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16804 on: Thu, 21 October 2021, 13:23:35 »
How do you remove plate mounted costar stabilizers? I tried removing them from the top, pulling them forward, upward, and backward and they don't budge. Do I have to desolder all my switches to get to the backplate to remove them?

My keyboard:

https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/C1fnGA6NDES.pdf
https://www.hyperxgaming.com/us/keyboards/alloy-fps-pro-mechanical-gaming-keyboard

I don't see an actual picture of the stabilizers on either of those pages -- are you able to take a photo of your stabilizer for reference? Upon some googling, it seems that different SKUs of the HyperX Alloy apparently use different kinds of stabilizers.
Sorry, here: https://prnt.sc/1wzl9ra

Okay, those definitely look like costar stabs to me. It looks like that stabilizer is installed upside-down, so the easiest way to get it out will be to push sideways to the right (towards the x/c or m/n keys) on the spike at the left side of your picture (at the bottom of the spacebar). By pushing in that direction, the clip should pop out and rotate itself upward on its own. If that's not working, I'm not sure what else to suggest. It's possible that there's some adhesive or an extra bit of plastic on this design as compared to my much older board with costar stabs, which means the technique I'm used to won't work here. Maybe someone else has experience with this particular board and can chime in.

E: this thread suggests that the HyperX Alloy doesn't use standard costar stabilizers
So you mean push forward from where I would be facing here?  https://prnt.sc/1wznne4
Also I don't believe they are "upside down," I'm not sure what that means. This is how the stabilizers came in and the spacebar works perfectly fine, I'm just wondering how to remove some so I can re-insert them because some are a bit wobbly.

Better picture of my stabilizer: https://prnt.sc/1wzppsn

Edit: Sorry I just noticed the thread, yes. The hyperx alloy is the exact stabilizers I have, I watched that video too and it doesn't look like you can remove them from the top.
This video at the 5:01 timestamp shows how to remove cherry stabilizers by "pinching" them off from the PCB, but mine are plate mounted and are costars so they're not well known if they are removed that way or not.

« Last Edit: Thu, 21 October 2021, 13:39:29 by ShangWang »

Offline user 18

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16805 on: Thu, 21 October 2021, 13:39:13 »
So you mean push forward from where I would be facing here?  https://prnt.sc/1wznne4
Also I don't believe they are "upside down," I'm not sure what that means. This is how the stabilizers came in and the spacebar works perfectly fine, I'm just wondering how to remove some so I can re-insert them because some are a bit wobbly.

By 'upside-down', I just mean that the wire is at the top of the key, rather than at the bottom. It's not a problem, and won't affect the functioning, it's just the less-common way for that style of stabilizer to be designed. The switch for your spacebar is also 'upside-down' -- the LED is at the top of the switch, and the text is below the stem. None of this is an issue, it just means your keyboard was designed a bit differently from other keyboards.

Reinserting the stabilizers won't necessarily fix any wobble -- because the key inserts aren't attached to the stabilizer at all, and just ride along the wire in a groove, there's some inherent play in the design, which is necessary for the inserts to move without grinding or binding. If the plate-mounted parts in your image don't move significantly when you're poking at them to try and remove them, they're likely not the source of any wobble you're experiencing.

I've attached an image with the correct areas and directions to push. I've indicated both in the image, but you should be able to pop them out one at a time.
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Offline ShangWang

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16806 on: Thu, 21 October 2021, 13:48:43 »

By 'upside-down', I just mean that the wire is at the top of the key, rather than at the bottom. It's not a problem, and won't affect the functioning, it's just the less-common way for that style of stabilizer to be designed. The switch for your spacebar is also 'upside-down' -- the LED is at the top of the switch, and the text is below the stem. None of this is an issue, it just means your keyboard was designed a bit differently from other keyboards.

Reinserting the stabilizers won't necessarily fix any wobble -- because the key inserts aren't attached to the stabilizer at all, and just ride along the wire in a groove, there's some inherent play in the design, which is necessary for the inserts to move without grinding or binding. If the plate-mounted parts in your image don't move significantly when you're poking at them to try and remove them, they're likely not the source of any wobble you're experiencing.

I've attached an image with the correct areas and directions to push. I've indicated both in the image, but you should be able to pop them out one at a time.
Your method worked! Thank you so much :)

Offline user 18

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16807 on: Thu, 21 October 2021, 13:56:15 »

By 'upside-down', I just mean that the wire is at the top of the key, rather than at the bottom. It's not a problem, and won't affect the functioning, it's just the less-common way for that style of stabilizer to be designed. The switch for your spacebar is also 'upside-down' -- the LED is at the top of the switch, and the text is below the stem. None of this is an issue, it just means your keyboard was designed a bit differently from other keyboards.

Reinserting the stabilizers won't necessarily fix any wobble -- because the key inserts aren't attached to the stabilizer at all, and just ride along the wire in a groove, there's some inherent play in the design, which is necessary for the inserts to move without grinding or binding. If the plate-mounted parts in your image don't move significantly when you're poking at them to try and remove them, they're likely not the source of any wobble you're experiencing.

I've attached an image with the correct areas and directions to push. I've indicated both in the image, but you should be able to pop them out one at a time.
Your method worked! Thank you so much :)

Glad to hear that's done it! Hopefully you're able to mitigate some of the wobble you're experiencing  :thumb:
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Offline ShangWang

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16808 on: Thu, 21 October 2021, 13:57:33 »
So you mean push forward from where I would be facing here?  https://prnt.sc/1wznne4
Also I don't believe they are "upside down," I'm not sure what that means. This is how the stabilizers came in and the spacebar works perfectly fine, I'm just wondering how to remove some so I can re-insert them because some are a bit wobbly.

By 'upside-down', I just mean that the wire is at the top of the key, rather than at the bottom. It's not a problem, and won't affect the functioning, it's just the less-common way for that style of stabilizer to be designed. The switch for your spacebar is also 'upside-down' -- the LED is at the top of the switch, and the text is below the stem. None of this is an issue, it just means your keyboard was designed a bit differently from other keyboards.

Reinserting the stabilizers won't necessarily fix any wobble -- because the key inserts aren't attached to the stabilizer at all, and just ride along the wire in a groove, there's some inherent play in the design, which is necessary for the inserts to move without grinding or binding. If the plate-mounted parts in your image don't move significantly when you're poking at them to try and remove them, they're likely not the source of any wobble you're experiencing.

I've attached an image with the correct areas and directions to push. I've indicated both in the image, but you should be able to pop them out one at a time.
Unfortunately as you said the wobble isn't fixed by reinserting the stabilizers, they aren't the real issue I have, I was just aware they aren't "fixed" in. Is there any way to fix this wobble in any case?

Offline user 18

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16809 on: Thu, 21 October 2021, 14:24:17 »
So you mean push forward from where I would be facing here?  https://prnt.sc/1wznne4
Also I don't believe they are "upside down," I'm not sure what that means. This is how the stabilizers came in and the spacebar works perfectly fine, I'm just wondering how to remove some so I can re-insert them because some are a bit wobbly.

By 'upside-down', I just mean that the wire is at the top of the key, rather than at the bottom. It's not a problem, and won't affect the functioning, it's just the less-common way for that style of stabilizer to be designed. The switch for your spacebar is also 'upside-down' -- the LED is at the top of the switch, and the text is below the stem. None of this is an issue, it just means your keyboard was designed a bit differently from other keyboards.

Reinserting the stabilizers won't necessarily fix any wobble -- because the key inserts aren't attached to the stabilizer at all, and just ride along the wire in a groove, there's some inherent play in the design, which is necessary for the inserts to move without grinding or binding. If the plate-mounted parts in your image don't move significantly when you're poking at them to try and remove them, they're likely not the source of any wobble you're experiencing.

I've attached an image with the correct areas and directions to push. I've indicated both in the image, but you should be able to pop them out one at a time.
Unfortunately as you said the wobble isn't fixed by reinserting the stabilizers, they aren't the real issue I have, I was just aware they aren't "fixed" in. Is there any way to fix this wobble in any case?

I've encountered two types of wobble with costar stabs:

1) 'side-to-side', where the cap seems to rotate a bit. This is actually inherent to all keys, where they have a couple of degrees of rotation around the switch, but it's more evident in the longer stabilized keys, where the edge of the key moves more for the same rotation angle. Cherry stabilizers help mitigate this a bit, because they have less freedom of movement at the stabilizer. Unfortunately, it's very difficult to retrofit Cherry stabs into a Costar board, since they need larger cutouts in the plate. Personally, I've just learned to live with it, and I don't really notice any impact while typing.

2) 'up-and-down', where pressing on one side of the key doesn't depress the entire key evenly. Instead, the side you press goes down, and the opposite side tilts up. This is the more difficult thing to deal with when typing, because it can lead to missed keystrokes. Usually, this is caused by the stabilizer inserts fitting too losely in the stem of the keycap. The fit can be improved by cutting a small square of thin plastic (e.g. scotch tape, ziplock bag), and putting this square over the insert before putting the insert in the keycap. By adding this little bit of extra material, you get a better friction fit between the two pieces, and it's less likely to pop out.

If you're also experiencing rattling or noises, you may be able to improve this by lubricating your stabilizers. I've never bothered to do this, so I'll let someone with more experience provide guidance on that.
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Offline ShangWang

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16810 on: Thu, 21 October 2021, 14:41:04 »

I've encountered two types of wobble with costar stabs:

1) 'side-to-side', where the cap seems to rotate a bit. This is actually inherent to all keys, where they have a couple of degrees of rotation around the switch, but it's more evident in the longer stabilized keys, where the edge of the key moves more for the same rotation angle. Cherry stabilizers help mitigate this a bit, because they have less freedom of movement at the stabilizer. Unfortunately, it's very difficult to retrofit Cherry stabs into a Costar board, since they need larger cutouts in the plate. Personally, I've just learned to live with it, and I don't really notice any impact while typing.

2) 'up-and-down', where pressing on one side of the key doesn't depress the entire key evenly. Instead, the side you press goes down, and the opposite side tilts up. This is the more difficult thing to deal with when typing, because it can lead to missed keystrokes. Usually, this is caused by the stabilizer inserts fitting too losely in the stem of the keycap. The fit can be improved by cutting a small square of thin plastic (e.g. scotch tape, ziplock bag), and putting this square over the insert before putting the insert in the keycap. By adding this little bit of extra material, you get a better friction fit between the two pieces, and it's less likely to pop out.

If you're also experiencing rattling or noises, you may be able to improve this by lubricating your stabilizers. I've never bothered to do this, so I'll let someone with more experience provide guidance on that.
Thank you for the explanation, I've checked myself and I do not suffer from either issue. It just seems the way the keyboard is made. One stab on my spacebar was just wobbly itself but doesn't cause issues, just a bit annoying to see.

What I can likely do to make it sound better is add foam to make the keyboard sound less hollow, but it's not something I want to do right now so maybe in the future to test it.

Another thing is lubing the switches themselves, since I hear a metal ping noise from my spacebar more often than other switches so it likely needs some lube but I would have to desolder my plate mounted switches to properly lube them and I have to buy it first.

What I have done is buy some cheap dielectric grease to lube the stabilizers which I did a few days ago, it made almost no difference because my stabilizers did not "rattle."

Thank you again for the help, please let me know if you have any advice for sound dampening/lubing plate mounted switches :)

Offline ShangWang

  • Posts: 25
Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16811 on: Thu, 21 October 2021, 15:22:07 »

I've encountered two types of wobble with costar stabs:

1) 'side-to-side', where the cap seems to rotate a bit. This is actually inherent to all keys, where they have a couple of degrees of rotation around the switch, but it's more evident in the longer stabilized keys, where the edge of the key moves more for the same rotation angle. Cherry stabilizers help mitigate this a bit, because they have less freedom of movement at the stabilizer. Unfortunately, it's very difficult to retrofit Cherry stabs into a Costar board, since they need larger cutouts in the plate. Personally, I've just learned to live with it, and I don't really notice any impact while typing.

2) 'up-and-down', where pressing on one side of the key doesn't depress the entire key evenly. Instead, the side you press goes down, and the opposite side tilts up. This is the more difficult thing to deal with when typing, because it can lead to missed keystrokes. Usually, this is caused by the stabilizer inserts fitting too losely in the stem of the keycap. The fit can be improved by cutting a small square of thin plastic (e.g. scotch tape, ziplock bag), and putting this square over the insert before putting the insert in the keycap. By adding this little bit of extra material, you get a better friction fit between the two pieces, and it's less likely to pop out.

If you're also experiencing rattling or noises, you may be able to improve this by lubricating your stabilizers. I've never bothered to do this, so I'll let someone with more experience provide guidance on that.
One more thing if you don't mind:

All my other stabilizer keys make more of a "clack" sound when pressed, while my right shift bar makes  a more damp "thocc" sound.
I checked under each stabilizer, they are all properly and evenly lubed, it's just the right shift bar sounds slightly better than all the rest. Switches didn't feel very different either.
Thoughts on why this is?
EDIT: Sorry link didn't work now it does:
Video: https://imgur.com/a/tayio15
« Last Edit: Fri, 22 October 2021, 10:11:37 by ShangWang »

Offline Volny

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16812 on: Fri, 22 October 2021, 00:45:02 »
What is the lightest switch (ignoring springs for the moment) that you know of? Yes, most of the weight will come from the spring, but housing, stem, and leaf also come into play. I've compared a bunch of different linear switches using the same 45g spring, and Gateron Silent Clears were the lightest I've found so far. Anyone know of anything even lighter?

My use case for these is for POS (Point of Sale) style 2u keycaps that are mounted on 2 adjacent switches (which effectively doubles the spring weight, making even light switches feel heavy).

Offline user 18

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16813 on: Fri, 22 October 2021, 11:52:44 »
One more thing if you don't mind:

All my other stabilizer keys make more of a "clack" sound when pressed, while my right shift bar makes  a more damp "thocc" sound.
I checked under each stabilizer, they are all properly and evenly lubed, it's just the right shift bar sounds slightly better than all the rest. Switches didn't feel very different either.
Thoughts on why this is?
EDIT: Sorry link didn't work now it does:
Video: https://imgur.com/a/tayio15

Personally, I don't hear much of a difference between the right shift and anything else. If you're hearing a difference, it may just be down to differences in manufacturing tolerances for the keycap and inserts which slightly changes which parts touch when the cap bottoms out.

What is the lightest switch (ignoring springs for the moment) that you know of? Yes, most of the weight will come from the spring, but housing, stem, and leaf also come into play. I've compared a bunch of different linear switches using the same 45g spring, and Gateron Silent Clears were the lightest I've found so far. Anyone know of anything even lighter?

My use case for these is for POS (Point of Sale) style 2u keycaps that are mounted on 2 adjacent switches (which effectively doubles the spring weight, making even light switches feel heavy).

In general, linear switches will have less resistance than tactile or clicky designs, but I'm guessing you know that already if you're testing linears. I'm not aware of any significant differences in design, and would guess that the differences you're observing are more likely to be from variation within the manufacturing tolerances than a systematic difference between the different switch designs.
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Offline ShangWang

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16814 on: Fri, 22 October 2021, 11:55:20 »

Personally, I don't hear much of a difference between the right shift and anything else. If you're hearing a difference, it may just be down to differences in manufacturing tolerances for the keycap and inserts which slightly changes which parts touch when the cap bottoms out.


I think it's because the right shift key inserts are kind of "half-way" inserted but I can't push it any further. The keycap is also slightly longer than all the other keycaps so maybe that has some play into how it sounds compared to others, but other than that maybe how it was manufactured yeah.

Offline user 18

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16815 on: Fri, 22 October 2021, 12:00:03 »

Personally, I don't hear much of a difference between the right shift and anything else. If you're hearing a difference, it may just be down to differences in manufacturing tolerances for the keycap and inserts which slightly changes which parts touch when the cap bottoms out.


I think it's because the right shift key inserts are kind of "half-way" inserted but I can't push it any further. The keycap is also slightly longer than all the other keycaps so maybe that has some play into how it sounds compared to others, but other than that maybe how it was manufactured yeah.

That could definitely be the cause. If you prefer that sound, you could play around with adding some spacer material to see if you can get the same effect on some other keys.

I think I recall reading a long time ago about someone 3D printing inserts that they found to be better in some way than the standard ones, but I don't remember any of the details. If you have access to a 3D printer and want to go down a bit of a rabbit hole, that's maybe something to consider.
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Offline ShangWang

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16816 on: Fri, 22 October 2021, 12:01:58 »

That could definitely be the cause. If you prefer that sound, you could play around with adding some spacer material to see if you can get the same effect on some other keys.

I think I recall reading a long time ago about someone 3D printing inserts that they found to be better in some way than the standard ones, but I don't remember any of the details. If you have access to a 3D printer and want to go down a bit of a rabbit hole, that's maybe something to consider.

Thanks, I don't think it's worth going there and I don't have a 3D printer, I kind of like the sound but the only thing that bothers me is sounds better than all my other keys haha.
I don't use the key at all anyway so it's not a big deal, thanks again for the help.

Offline Volny

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16817 on: Sat, 23 October 2021, 19:52:34 »

What is the lightest switch (ignoring springs for the moment) that you know of? Yes, most of the weight will come from the spring, but housing, stem, and leaf also come into play. I've compared a bunch of different linear switches using the same 45g spring, and Gateron Silent Clears were the lightest I've found so far. Anyone know of anything even lighter?

My use case for these is for POS (Point of Sale) style 2u keycaps that are mounted on 2 adjacent switches (which effectively doubles the spring weight, making even light switches feel heavy).

... I'm not aware of any significant differences in design, and would guess that the differences you're observing are more likely to be from variation within the manufacturing tolerances than a systematic difference between the different switch designs.

I imagine there could be a few relevant factors, at least theoretically. For example, housing material or leaf design. Also leaf material: a leaf made from a thinner or flimsier metal would probably provide less resistance. Perhaps this is why I've found the gateron to be the lightest, since gateron switches IMO usually feel a bit cheaply made.

The thing that has puzzled me is that the gateron silent clear, which has consistently been the lightest in my tests, has also been one of the scratchiest, which I would have thought would make it feel heavier. Hmm, maybe I can try combining a gateron leaf with a smooth UHMWPE housing...

Offline user 18

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16818 on: Mon, 25 October 2021, 01:18:07 »
I imagine there could be a few relevant factors, at least theoretically. For example, housing material or leaf design. Also leaf material: a leaf made from a thinner or flimsier metal would probably provide less resistance.

Yes, but I'm not aware of any such purposeful differences existing within a particular manufacturer's switches, and I'd expect if there were purposeful differences, there would be some marketing copy about just how fantastic those differences are  :)) . For housings, for example, there will be variations between moulds, batches of plastic, etc., and these variations may be greater for a manufacturer with less stringent quality control standards. I'd be happy to be proven wrong on this point!

When you're testing the gateron silent clears, are all your test switches bought at the same time, from the same retailer, or have you bought switches over a period of time, from different retailers? If, say, you just bought a single 10-pack, it's entirely possible that the particular batch you got is closer to out-of-spec than the other switches you've tried in a way that happens to be favourable for your application.

This may be related to one of the reasons 'vintage' MX Blacks were so sought after -- the older switches had smooth sliders, while the newer switches used a different material, and were considerably more scratchy. More recently, there's been another retooling, and apparently the modern MX blacks are a bit better. But these transitions weren't like flipping a switch, they took place over time, and various supply chains and parts of the world got the new stuff to consumers at different times, over a course of years.

Quote
The thing that has puzzled me is that the gateron silent clear, which has consistently been the lightest in my tests, has also been one of the scratchiest, which I would have thought would make it feel heavier. Hmm, maybe I can try combining a gateron leaf with a smooth UHMWPE housing...

The sense of touch is very...sensitive -- for lack of a better word. The amount of extra friction from the scratchy feeling is likely negligible on the scales you're measuring (grams of force -- centinewtons), but you can feel the consequences. How are you measuring how heavy a particular switch is?

You could maybe get beneficial results by lubing the contact points of your slider/housing -- if properly done, this could further reduce friction, as well as helping the scratchy feeling.
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Offline Volny

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16819 on: Mon, 25 October 2021, 08:19:32 »
I imagine there could be a few relevant factors, at least theoretically. For example, housing material or leaf design. Also leaf material: a leaf made from a thinner or flimsier metal would probably provide less resistance.

Yes, but I'm not aware of any such purposeful differences existing within a particular manufacturer's switches, and I'd expect if there were purposeful differences, there would be some marketing copy about just how fantastic those differences are  :)) .

Why would there be any? Ultra light frankenswitches like what I'm talking about are an utter irrelevance to 99% of the marketplace. My use case (POS mount 2u keycaps that require 2 switches per keycap, to be used in a regular keyboard, not a POS system) is niche to the point of being basically an outlier.

On the contrary. Since my previous post, I've taken a few leaves out of various switches, and they appear to have confirmed my original suspicion: gateron silent clears are lighter simply because they're cheap and crappy. The leaves seem to be thinner and flimsier than other brands' leaves. This works in my favour in this instance, but it's hardly something Gateron should be boasting about in their ads ;)

Offline ShangWang

  • Posts: 25
Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16820 on: Tue, 09 November 2021, 10:24:18 »
Is it bad to have dielectric grease on the bottom of your costar stabilizers? Will it do nothing or does it affect the sound if a thin layer is there?

If any dielectric grease seeped under to the PCB, would that cause any damage? If I used a paper towel to wipe off the dielectric grease and it scratched the surface, would that also be an issue or is it all cosmetic? When and where would scratches on a PCB be an issue?

PCB: https://imgur.com/a/zmuq77u
Stabilizer: https://imgur.com/fwnrcBV

Offline user 18

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16821 on: Thu, 11 November 2021, 12:14:53 »
Is it bad to have dielectric grease on the bottom of your costar stabilizers? Will it do nothing or does it affect the sound if a thin layer is there?

If any dielectric grease seeped under to the PCB, would that cause any damage? If I used a paper towel to wipe off the dielectric grease and it scratched the surface, would that also be an issue or is it all cosmetic? When and where would scratches on a PCB be an issue?

PCB: https://imgur.com/a/zmuq77u
Stabilizer: https://imgur.com/fwnrcBV

I can't speak from experience to how it would affect the sound. I wouldn't expect there to be a major difference if it's really just a thin layer -- I don't believe the stabilizer inserts bottom out during normal use.

Dielectric grease is nonconductive, so it shouldn't lead to any shorting or undesirable behaviour if it's in contact with the PCB. I believe it's also used to protect electrical contacts against corrosion, so it shouldn't cause any long-term issues if it's touching PCB traces or contacts.

Scratches to a PCB can cause issues when they sever an electrical connection, or significantly reduce its cross-sectional area (i.e. cut almost all the way through), particularly for a trace that carries a reasonable amount of power -- which you usually won't find in a keyboard. Your photo is a bit blurry, but I don't see any obvious signs of damage there. I wouldn't expect the mild abrasive of a paper towel to cause significant damage anyway, unless you applied a lot of pressure when wiping up the grease, or have a particularly fragile PCB.
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Offline ShangWang

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16822 on: Thu, 11 November 2021, 12:17:11 »
Sounds good, thanks! I haven't actually touched the PCB, I was just wondering in the future if I ever get the grease on there and I could clean it off.

Offline user 18

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16823 on: Thu, 11 November 2021, 12:20:00 »
Sounds good, thanks! I haven't actually touched the PCB, I was just wondering in the future if I ever get the grease on there and I could clean it off.

I'd recommend a Q-tip or similar cotton swab, if you're trying to clean something through a small gap like that. Bit easier to control than a paper towel, in my experience.
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Offline ShangWang

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16824 on: Thu, 11 November 2021, 12:22:06 »

I'd recommend a Q-tip or similar cotton swab, if you're trying to clean something through a small gap like that. Bit easier to control than a paper towel, in my experience.

Thanks, Q-tips in your opinion don't have much of an issue with leaving cotton pieces behind? Would you dip it in 99% isopropyl alcohol or is 70% fine on PCB?

Offline user 18

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16825 on: Thu, 11 November 2021, 12:31:40 »

I'd recommend a Q-tip or similar cotton swab, if you're trying to clean something through a small gap like that. Bit easier to control than a paper towel, in my experience.

Thanks, Q-tips in your opinion don't have much of an issue with leaving cotton pieces behind? Would you dip it in 99% isopropyl alcohol or is 70% fine on PCB?

I wouldn't start off dipping it in anything if I was trying to use it to wipe up grease. My understanding is that higher alcohol % is safer for electronics, and iFixit agrees: https://www.ifixit.com/News/36877/ask-ifixit-everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-isopropyl-alcohol

Both paper towel and cotton swabs have the potential to leave behind lint. I'm not concerned about a little bit of nonconductive debris, since dust and such will accumulate anyway, unless you're cleaning your board very frequently. In my experience, good-quality swabs leave behind little lint, particularly if you're not applying strong pressure, but a good-quality paper towel will leave less lint than a poor-quality swab.
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Offline ShangWang

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16826 on: Thu, 11 November 2021, 12:36:13 »
Makes sense, I'll probably start dipping to clean the residue leftover after wiping.

Offline ShangWang

  • Posts: 25
Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16827 on: Thu, 18 November 2021, 15:30:33 »
I have the HyperX Alloy FPS Pro.

I accidently got some dead skin in the circuit board through the tiny gaps in the switches, is this an issue? I was trying to blow away some particles and maybe it went inside but I'm not sure.

If it did go inside, is it possible for any issues to occur, and if not is it not worth the hassle to clean? My keyboard is plate mounted so it would take a lot of work.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/hyperx-alloy-fps-rgb-pb-keycaps/5.html

Also sorry if this should be obvious can anyone else confirm that there is a hidden screw on EACH upper rubber foot of the keyboard indicated in the site in the 2nd picture? I only see an image for one corner and I'm not sure if there's one on the other corner.

This video shows only the right rubber pad is removed, not the other one:
« Last Edit: Thu, 18 November 2021, 15:35:30 by ShangWang »

Offline jimbalaja

  • Posts: 1
Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16828 on: Sat, 20 November 2021, 10:48:23 »
I've been wanting to get a proper board now for a while. I've experimented enough on my sk-61 on lubing stabs and switches and all the mods I could find on the internet. But at the end of the day it's an sk-61. I can only take it to such an extent. So I'm ready to move on to something that's actually good. But I'm a little lost and I'm not sure what to buy. This is the list of things I'm looking for:

- General budget of $300 so probably a barebones of less or equal to $200
- TKL / 75% / 65%
- Hotswap
- Southfacing RGB
- Screw in stabs
- Aluminum case
- Gasket mount would be cool
- polycarbonate or brass plate would also be cool.

I already have my switches picked out, probably alpacas. I'm gonna get durok stabs and Krytox. Haven't decided on the keycaps yet but probably pbt, idk if I have the budget for gmk.

I've looked at the GMMK Pro and Keychron q1. I like the Q1 the best out of all I've seen but it's out of stock right now and I have until January to make this build.

Are there any other options that you guys can tell me about?



Offline MIGHTY CHICKEN

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16829 on: Sat, 20 November 2021, 11:23:47 »
I've been wanting to get a proper board now for a while. I've experimented enough on my sk-61 on lubing stabs and switches and all the mods I could find on the internet. But at the end of the day it's an sk-61. I can only take it to such an extent. So I'm ready to move on to something that's actually good. But I'm a little lost and I'm not sure what to buy. This is the list of things I'm looking for:

- General budget of $300 so probably a barebones of less or equal to $200
- TKL / 75% / 65%
- Hotswap
- Southfacing RGB
- Screw in stabs
- Aluminum case
- Gasket mount would be cool
- polycarbonate or brass plate would also be cool.

I already have my switches picked out, probably alpacas. I'm gonna get durok stabs and Krytox. Haven't decided on the keycaps yet but probably pbt, idk if I have the budget for gmk.

I've looked at the GMMK Pro and Keychron q1. I like the Q1 the best out of all I've seen but it's out of stock right now and I have until January to make this build.

Are there any other options that you guys can tell me about?
Sounds like those are all your options, RGB and hotswap pretty much rules out most everything else.

Offline ShangWang

  • Posts: 25
Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16830 on: Mon, 22 November 2021, 15:58:59 »
I noticed that nearly all cherry/switch stabilizers require a PCB cut out under the spacebar for the wires to be inserted, but regular costars do not.

PCB https://imgur.com/a/udH1ywn

No PCB https://imgur.com/a/1cvYnct

Does EVERY keyboard with switch stabilizers need this cut out? Are there keyboards out there that are able to insert the wire without the need for this cut out, and if not why?
Would this cut out serve issues with dust/grease/grime getting into the PCB and causing issues?

Offline TonyLuczka

  • Posts: 1
Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16831 on: Wed, 24 November 2021, 12:43:14 »
Is it necessary to lubricate my ink blacks? I was wondering if lube could make a more thocky keyboard. If so, how much more? Would it be best to get ink black or silent ink black?

Offline ShangWang

  • Posts: 25
Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16832 on: Sat, 27 November 2021, 19:02:18 »
I have the HyperX Alloy FPS Pro. It has a braided wire that can plug in and out of the keyboard.

Sometimes when I lift up my keyboard/flip it in a different orientation it turns off for an instant and then immediately turns back on with the windows unplug and plug sound. For the most part the USB is snug between my laptop and the keyboard.

Is this normal, and if not what kind of issue might this imply? Is it ok as long the keyboard works perfectly fine when sitting normally?

Offline ShangWang

  • Posts: 25
Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16833 on: Sat, 27 November 2021, 19:39:25 »
Will a keyboard work fine regardless of how bent the wire is? For example the cable running from the keyboard is pushed against a surface and is slightly bent with little space to "move."

Would a keyboard work fine this way, or would doing this break the cable somehow, and if so in what way? What gets damaged and won't make connectivity work when a wire is bent/stressed?

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16834 on: Sun, 28 November 2021, 12:45:00 »
A single bend in a cable is not a problem, if you keep bending and straightening it the wires inside will snap and the connection will be lost.

As to the plugging and unplugging it that sounds like the cable fits in a USB port on the board?  If so you're putting too much pressure on it (maybe the cable is heavy) if you do this too much the port will break and you'll have to take the keyboard apart and replace the port.
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Offline ShangWang

  • Posts: 25
Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16835 on: Sun, 28 November 2021, 12:48:33 »
A single bend in a cable is not a problem, if you keep bending and straightening it the wires inside will snap and the connection will be lost.

As to the plugging and unplugging it that sounds like the cable fits in a USB port on the board?  If so you're putting too much pressure on it (maybe the cable is heavy) if you do this too much the port will break and you'll have to take the keyboard apart and replace the port.

I see, thanks. I'm thinking maybe the wires in the cable are not fully reinforced and may just not conduct electricity as well if moved. I don't put any pressure on the cable, I just lift my keyboard up and it briefly disconnects SOMETIMES.

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16836 on: Sun, 28 November 2021, 12:51:38 »
Definitely sounds like a weak port (assuming the cable is not fixed)  If it is you could open the keyboard up and add some epoxy to hold the port in place, or maybe buy a right angle adaptor and glue it to the back of the board?
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Offline ShangWang

  • Posts: 25
Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16837 on: Sun, 28 November 2021, 13:09:14 »
Assuming the port is weak is probably the case, the cable is able to wobble up and down a bit if I push up or down on it, but it's still securely plugged in at least.

I don't think it's worth the trouble, as long as this is a common case with keyboards and can be ignored if the keyboard functions fine normally.

Offline user 18

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16838 on: Thu, 02 December 2021, 16:00:41 »
I have the HyperX Alloy FPS Pro.

I accidently got some dead skin in the circuit board through the tiny gaps in the switches, is this an issue? I was trying to blow away some particles and maybe it went inside but I'm not sure.

If it did go inside, is it possible for any issues to occur, and if not is it not worth the hassle to clean? My keyboard is plate mounted so it would take a lot of work.


If the board is still functioning normally, probably not worth taking it apart. To get in between the plate and PCB would likely require desoldering, and there's always a risk of lifting pads, etc. when you do that.

Bits of dead skin is a component of regular dust, I wouldn't be too worried about that.

I noticed that nearly all cherry/switch stabilizers require a PCB cut out under the spacebar for the wires to be inserted, but regular costars do not.

PCB https://imgur.com/a/udH1ywn

No PCB https://imgur.com/a/1cvYnct

Does EVERY keyboard with switch stabilizers need this cut out? Are there keyboards out there that are able to insert the wire without the need for this cut out, and if not why?
Would this cut out serve issues with dust/grease/grime getting into the PCB and causing issues?

I don't think that's a mandatory cutout for PCB mount Cherry stabilizers. I have one of these that I'm 90% sure I used PCB mount Cherrys for. It did complicate assembly a bit, since the stabilizers had to be added before the first switch. I'd be surprised if any commercial boards would make that tradeoff.

What issues are you experiencing with dust/grease/grime? Unless you're in a very dirty environment with a lot of conductive dust, I wouldn't expect to see any functional issues.
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Offline ShangWang

  • Posts: 25
Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16839 on: Thu, 02 December 2021, 16:24:37 »

What issues are you experiencing with dust/grease/grime? Unless you're in a very dirty environment with a lot of conductive dust, I wouldn't expect to see any functional issues.
No issues, just curious thank you!

Offline dankthropod

  • Formerly wariomale
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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16840 on: Thu, 09 December 2021, 06:25:01 »
If I where to buy an IBM model M, how will I be able to use it in my daily driver machine? Are there any open source drivers for linux?
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16841 on: Thu, 09 December 2021, 09:54:41 »
You shouldn't need any "drivers" - it is and has been the standard keyboard for decades.

You will probably need to adapt the PS/2 cable (aka mini-DIN6) to USB, unless you are buying a Unicomp Model M which can be bought with native USB.
Catherine Glenn Foster, president and CEO of Americans United for Life, explains that these abortions become “bodies that are thrown away in medical waste bins,” and then she reveals something that no one in Washington, DC knew: Washington’s electrical grid is partially dependent on abortions. What, you say? Here’s Foster to explain that fetuses, “in places like Washington, DC, are burned to power the lights of the city’s homes and streets.”
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Offline dankthropod

  • Formerly wariomale
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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16842 on: Fri, 10 December 2021, 03:25:22 »
Thank you!
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AUDIO: beyers dt 880 pros with a k3 DAC. Really want to get my hands on some sennies hurr durr six hungos

Offline blahsd

  • Posts: 1
Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16843 on: Mon, 13 December 2021, 09:21:34 »
Are you aware of any 60% case which is layered aluminum and plastic (acrylic / pbt / doesn't matter)?

I'm looking for parts for a 60% super portable keyboard which must have Bluetooth. I have seen a few cases (such as this: https://kprepublic.com/products/anodized-aluminium-3-layers-acclive-angle-case-for-custom-mechanical-keyboard-black-siver-grey-colorway-for-gh60-xd60-xd64) made of aluminum with an acrylic layer for underglow diffusion purposes. I would figure that this would be useful to improve BT connectivity, although the one I linked seems very small to make a concrete difference.

I would be very happy with: aluminum/plastic layers, aluminum frame and plastic bottom-plate, aluminum front and plastic insert in the back or on the sides, or any combination of the above. In short, anything that looks good and gives a nice aesthetic / feel to the keyboard, while letting the signal through.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Offline Leopard223

  • Posts: 219
Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16844 on: Sat, 18 December 2021, 18:08:37 »
Are you aware of any 60% case which is layered aluminum and plastic (acrylic / pbt / doesn't matter)?

I'm looking for parts for a 60% super portable keyboard which must have Bluetooth. I have seen a few cases (such as this: https://kprepublic.com/products/anodized-aluminium-3-layers-acclive-angle-case-for-custom-mechanical-keyboard-black-siver-grey-colorway-for-gh60-xd60-xd64) made of aluminum with an acrylic layer for underglow diffusion purposes. I would figure that this would be useful to improve BT connectivity, although the one I linked seems very small to make a concrete difference.

I would be very happy with: aluminum/plastic layers, aluminum frame and plastic bottom-plate, aluminum front and plastic insert in the back or on the sides, or any combination of the above. In short, anything that looks good and gives a nice aesthetic / feel to the keyboard, while letting the signal through.

Thanks in advance for any advice!
Not idea about Alu and BT connectivity, but you said you want it super portable and must have BT, an alu case will be quite heavy to walk around it.
If you're okay with a cheap 65% with a plastic case you can take a look at the tester 68, I havn't used it and it's quite new so I have no idea about reliability.

It's dirt cheap, super basic 65% with the common poker type of plastic case design, hot swap, no RGB, and has BT connectivity, actually BT connectivity is the only connection is has, no USB port.
I personally find that okay as it runs on 2 aaa batteries, so you always take 2 spare with you when the 80h acclaimed battery life runs out.

Offline DrowningRice

  • Posts: 1
Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16845 on: Sun, 26 December 2021, 12:29:05 »
Where can I buy mechanical switch stems? I could find springs on Ali Express, but I can't seem to find stems on its own (excluding the DROP ones which suck).

Offline Leopard223

  • Posts: 219
Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16846 on: Sun, 26 December 2021, 17:31:34 »
Where can I buy mechanical switch stems? I could find springs on Ali Express, but I can't seem to find stems on its own (excluding the DROP ones which suck).
Not sure what stems are you looking for, and I'm not sure how important is the stem but at this point your cheapest option would be getting a Gateron pack from AliExpress, it's as cheap as it gets.

Offline Beebal

  • Posts: 1
Gummy O-Ring Mount
« Reply #16847 on: Mon, 27 December 2021, 09:51:39 »
What size and hardness o-ring should I get if I am aiming to utilize the gummy o-ring mount / friction fit, and will I need to buy new clip-in stabilisers? The keyboard I am getting for it is the KBD67 Lite, and it is 65% with 2.25u left shift, and the stabilisers that come with it are screw-in.

Offline dboy

  • Posts: 1
Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #16848 on: Tue, 04 January 2022, 05:12:36 »
Hello!

I am new to mechanical keyboards so be kind...  :)
I have a KBParadise V60 with Gateron Mini switches.
Does anyone know if I can open the case, desolder the old switches and fit a new switch-setup in there? For example Kailh, MX or similar.

Offline Leopard223

  • Posts: 219
Re: Gummy O-Ring Mount
« Reply #16849 on: Tue, 04 January 2022, 17:26:45 »
What size and hardness o-ring should I get if I am aiming to utilize the gummy o-ring mount / friction fit, and will I need to buy new clip-in stabilisers? The keyboard I am getting for it is the KBD67 Lite, and it is 65% with 2.25u left shift, and the stabilisers that come with it are screw-in.
How do you plan to implement the o-ring? I own the KBD67 lite and I don't think it will work due to the case design, looking at renders also doesn't show any promise.
Do you have examples?