Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)

[CPTBadAss]

Having the option to remap a second or third layer key assignments is not the same as having full keyboard programability. The confusion comes from manufacturers that use the term programmable keyboard to describe a keyboard featuring layer remapping capabilities. A programmable keyboard allows the user to define all key assignments with no restrictions.

That's a great way to put it. Thanks

[tofgerl]

I don't think Vortex are saying the Pok3r is programmable? They talk about "increased programmability" and I would agree with that statement, but what I would REALLY call it is "remappable with macro functions".

For example, no matter what I do, I can't get a pok3r to send a Mac media key code. That's a simple edit in TMK. (And then a far from simple compilation and uploading, but if you're going to make your own keyboard, those are the breaks

[element72]

Having the option to remap a second or third layer key assignments is not the same as having full keyboard programability. The confusion comes from manufacturers that use the term programmable keyboard to describe a keyboard featuring layer remapping capabilities. A programmable keyboard allows the user to define all key assignments with no restrictions.

Very nice explanation. I'm looking at the pok3r manual to see how I can make the arrow keys like the pure pro and my brain is farting because I'm looking at the DIP switch functions and I'm still very new to this. Is it possible? I want the left, down, and right arrow keys on either of the 4 right-side keys of the spacebar. Also if you look at the very bottom of the manual it has a feature for arrow keys kinda like how I wanted. Is that extra feature a toggle or do I have to hold r_alt + spacebar ?

Edit: I am really trying to understand what exceptions there are to remapping the keys. It seems to me that the r_ctrl  is something you can't change because it is used to enter and exit programming mode.

[CPTBadAss]

Very nice explanation. I'm looking at the pok3r manual to see how I can make the arrow keys like the pure pro and my brain is farting because I'm looking at the DIP switch functions and I'm still very new to this. Is it possible? I want the left, down, and right arrow keys on either of the 4 right-side keys of the spacebar. Also if you look at the very bottom of the manual it has a feature for arrow keys kinda like how I wanted. Is that extra feature a toggle or do I have to hold r_alt + spacebar ?

Edit: I am really trying to understand what exceptions there are to remapping the keys. It seems to me that the r_ctrl  is something you can't change because it is used to enter and exit programming mode.

It's a momentary thing. So you'd have to hit function + layer 2 key. Anything not on the main layer will be like that unless there's a way to toggle on the secondary layer and stay there always. Think about how a laptop's layers work. When you have an up and down arrow that also doubles up as like brightness adjustment.

[tofgerl]

If you switch layers, it won't change back uness you manually do so. No matter what. Take out the cable, dismount the board and put it back together again. It will stay there.

[Blaise170]

Since the site was reverted it looks like my question was deleted so I'll ask again: Does anyone know what profile this keycap is?

[ideus]

Since the site was reverted it looks like my question was deleted so I'll ask again: Does anyone know what profile this keycap is?

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You should have some known key-caps besides it to compare, without that reference it is very hard to tell. With that warning, it looks like a top row (function row) or row 1 in DCS, OEM or Cherry.

[CPTBadAss]

Since the site was reverted it looks like my question was deleted so I'll ask again: Does anyone know what profile this keycap is?

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Maybe the KT profile from SP? If not, maybe this thread helps

[Blaise170]

Maybe the KT profile from SP? If not, maybe this thread helps

That looks like it might be it. It came from an editing board and I've never seen the flat backside before. The keycaps are doubleshot and they look just like SP caps.

You should have some known key-caps besides it to compare, without that reference it is very hard to tell. With that warning, it looks like a top row (function row) or row 1 in DCS, OEM or Cherry.

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Sorry, I don't even really know what profile the rest of my keyboards have. It is R4, from the top of a video editing board.

[E3E]

What's the opinion on Vintage MX Blues/Whites compared to their modern counterparts? I know that the oldest blues apparently lacked dye and thus were translucent.  I'm trying to figure out whether I want to use my linear Zealios as is for my next Octagon, or throw in some vintage clear stems, or some vintage white stems.  I want the switches to be completely colorless.

From my experience with vintage clears and blacks, there is more of a smoothness, though whether that's from being worn in or not, I can't say.

[ctm]

Is there a way to determined the year of manufacture of a Kinesis board? I got one with serial number 30127CMD. Curious about when this board was made.

[Blaise170]

What's the opinion on Vintage MX Blues/Whites compared to their modern counterparts? I know that the oldest blues apparently lacked dye and thus were translucent.  I'm trying to figure out whether I want to use my linear Zealios as is for my next Octagon, or throw in some vintage clear stems, or some vintage white stems.  I want the switches to be completely colorless.

From my experience with vintage clears and blacks, there is more of a smoothness, though whether that's from being worn in or not, I can't say.

Vintage blues don't really feel too different to me. They might feel a wee bit smoother but that's probably just from the wear and not a difference in the mold. I could be wrong about this but I don't think Blues were ever clear. I do have a vintage white switch with a translucent slider though and it feels almost linear even with the bump and click. I moved the stem into a modern blue switch bottom and it has a nice smooth click. Good luck finding any vintage white stems though, they are as rare as Blue Alps if not rarer. Indeed, I've never seen a full board with vintage whites. You might look at buying some Gateron stems since they are translucent.

[E3E]

What's the opinion on Vintage MX Blues/Whites compared to their modern counterparts? I know that the oldest blues apparently lacked dye and thus were translucent.  I'm trying to figure out whether I want to use my linear Zealios as is for my next Octagon, or throw in some vintage clear stems, or some vintage white stems.  I want the switches to be completely colorless.

From my experience with vintage clears and blacks, there is more of a smoothness, though whether that's from being worn in or not, I can't say.

Vintage blues don't really feel too different to me. They might feel a wee bit smoother but that's probably just from the wear and not a difference in the mold. I could be wrong about this but I don't think Blues were ever clear. I do have a vintage white switch with a translucent slider though and it feels almost linear even with the bump and click. I moved the stem into a modern blue switch bottom and it has a nice smooth click. Good luck finding any vintage white stems though, they are as rare as Blue Alps if not rarer. Indeed, I've never seen a full board with vintage whites. You might look at buying some Gateron stems since they are translucent.

I've got a good source on a board with these babies in them, so I think I might just buy that   I love linear switches, so the way you describe them sounds quite nice. The linear Zealios have translucent stems as well, which is a huge reason I picked them.

[CPTBadAss]

Is there a way to determined the year of manufacture of a Kinesis board? I got one with serial number 30127CMD. Curious about when this board was made.

Mr Kinesis himself (Input Nirvana) says that it's late 90's vintage. But to get a more accurate date of manufacture, you'll have to contact Kinesis themselves. The contact is techsupport@kinesis.com

[ctm]

Is there a way to determined the year of manufacture of a Kinesis board? I got one with serial number 30127CMD. Curious about when this board was made.

Mr Kinesis himself (Input Nirvana) says that it's late 90's vintage. But to get a more accurate date of manufacture, you'll have to contact Kinesis themselves.

Thanks a lot!

[davkol]

What's the opinion on Vintage MX Blues/Whites compared to their modern counterparts?

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72626.0

[Hzza]

Probably pushing the simple part a little but thought I'd try here first...

I've got a plate from a Dell AT102w that I want to use with my Alps64; if I wanted to mod the bottom row to be winkeyless could I just remove the vertical parts of the plate in between the switches like they do on universal Cherry plates or would this affect the switches stability?

[CPTBadAss]

Probably pushing the simple part a little but thought I'd try here first...

I've got a plate from a Dell AT102w that I want to use with my Alps64; if I wanted to mod the bottom row to be winkeyless could I just remove the vertical parts of the plate in between the switches like they do on universal Cherry plates or would this affect the switches stability?
(Attachment Link)

I'm actually not sure. In theory it sounds fine but I'm not 100% on how the Alps switches mount.

[Hzza]

That's what I was thinking...maybe I'll try it by splitting the backspace and then try it on the bottom row if it works OK. I'll keep you posted .

[jdcarpe]

That's what I was thinking...maybe I'll try it by splitting the backspace and then try it on the bottom row if it works OK. I'll keep you posted .

The problem you're going to have, even if the swtiches clip into the plate (which I think they will), is that the spacebar switch position for the 7u spacebar is different from the 6.25u position. You're going to need new stabilizer holes in the plate.

[Hzza]

Oh balls, I never even thought of that...thanks JD.

[E3E]

Probably pushing the simple part a little but thought I'd try here first...

I've got a plate from a Dell AT102w that I want to use with my Alps64; if I wanted to mod the bottom row to be winkeyless could I just remove the vertical parts of the plate in between the switches like they do on universal Cherry plates or would this affect the switches stability?
(Attachment Link)

I use universal plates for two Alps builds of mine. It won't affect anything in practical experience unless you forcibly push forward against a key (Alps like to rock ). Overall, I think the difference is pretty negligible and I'm happy with the stability! YMMV.

Testing it now.  ...Even pushing forward barely does much compared to a switch that is securely "land locked" by a plate. I'd say go for it.

EDIT: Er, like JD said, stabilizing might be an issue. For my builds, I used alps keys that had cherry stab mounts and used PCB-mounted cherry stabilizers. If you could find a way to create stab positions in the plate for 6.25u 7u, then you should be alright.

[Hzza]

Ah cool, good to know it works in theory. I've got a spare plate so I'll give it a go and try and figure out something for the spacebar stabs.

[ideus]

Does someone know which set is this one? and if there is something similar that is comercially available in double shot? In particular I am interested in that caps lock style with 1.5u step.

[E3E]

Does someone know which set is this one? and if there is something similar that is comercially available in double shot? In particular I am interested in that caps lock style with 1.5u step.

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That's an Alps keyset, ideus. Those are caps from the SGI Granite. I call that style of stepping "Alps stepped," since it is different from Cherry's kind of stepping and is only seen on OEM Alps boards. You won't see Cherry-stepped caps on any Alps boards and vise versa, as far as I know.

The Duck Mini allowed either Alps or Cherry MX.

[Vozella]

Does making a custom keyboard with plate mounted switches and no PCB still require soldering?

[jdcarpe]

Does making a custom keyboard with plate mounted switches and no PCB still require soldering?

Of course! In fact, it requires an amount of soldering and a technique that some would consider difficult and/or tedious.

Soldering switches to a PCB is far and away the easier route.

[Vozella]

Does making a custom keyboard with plate mounted switches and no PCB still require soldering?

Of course! In fact, it requires an amount of soldering and a technique that some would consider difficult and/or tedious.

Soldering switches to a PCB is far and away the easier route.

Are there any videos instructing how to do it? I have trouble learning how to do something when I can't see it visually. WhiteFireDragon only has videos of PCB keyboards.

[Roibhilin]

Is the meta key on the HHKB useless if I use windows and don't program?

[HoffmanMyster]

Is the meta key on the HHKB useless if I use windows and don't program?

If you set it to "Windows Mode" (SW1 ON, SW2 OFF - IIRC) then the meta key will act as the Windows Key. 

[alienman82]

removed.

[trenzafeeds]

Can one retrobrite Cherry doubleshots?

I believe yes

[jdcarpe]

Can one retrobrite Cherry doubleshots?

Yes, one can retrobrite any ABS.

[alienman82]

removed.

[Vozella]

Does making a custom keyboard with plate mounted switches and no PCB still require soldering?

Of course! In fact, it requires an amount of soldering and a technique that some would consider difficult and/or tedious.

Soldering switches to a PCB is far and away the easier route.

Are there any videos instructing how to do it? I have trouble learning how to do something when I can't see it visually. WhiteFireDragon only has videos of PCB keyboards.

Are there none?

[tofgerl]

Not on youtube that I've seen, but I've got this bookmarked: http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/brownfox-step-by-step-t6050.html
I ended up buying Satan GH60s at 30 bucks each, and I'm very glad I did. I would have spent a weekend being frustrated and getting my fingers burned otherwise.

[CPTBadAss]

Does making a custom keyboard with plate mounted switches and no PCB still require soldering?

Of course! In fact, it requires an amount of soldering and a technique that some would consider difficult and/or tedious.

Soldering switches to a PCB is far and away the easier route.

Are there any videos instructing how to do it? I have trouble learning how to do something when I can't see it visually. WhiteFireDragon only has videos of PCB keyboards.

Are there none?

Not on youtube that I've seen, but I've got this bookmarked: http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/brownfox-step-by-step-t6050.html

Yup, That's what I'd use to learn how to handwire boards. Also this thread.

[Vozella]

Not on youtube that I've seen, but I've got this bookmarked: http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/brownfox-step-by-step-t6050.html
I ended up buying Satan GH60s at 30 bucks each, and I'm very glad I did. I would have spent a weekend being frustrated and getting my fingers burned otherwise.

What is Satan GH60? I can't find any information on it.

[chiptea]

Hi, I've got a quick question.

I found a pretty good deal on some model Ms, but I've got an issue with them. On the top right of the boards, there are some numbers and letters engraved into the plastic. They are not too deep, so I was wondering if there was a way of filling the marks with some kind of putty, sanding it a little to match the texture, and dab some paint on it? Maybe someone has done something like this? Any help is appreciated!

[fohat.digs]

Hi, I've got a quick question.

I found a pretty good deal on some model Ms, but I've got an issue with them. On the top right of the boards, there are some numbers and letters engraved into the plastic. They are not too deep, so I was wondering if there was a way of filling the marks with some kind of putty, sanding it a little to match the texture, and dab some paint on it? Maybe someone has done something like this? Any help is appreciated!

My advice is: "Don't try to put lipstick on a pig."

If you are selling them, discount the price by $5 and let the buyers make their best try at it.

If I had one, depending, my first thought would be to glue something over it. I have a "Geekhack" plastic badge-type label, and a larger metal "Impala" badge that I have been wondering what to do with.

If you are determined to do something yourself, less is always better than more.

[Blaise170]

You might consider some silicone too.

[E3E]

Hi, I've got a quick question.

I found a pretty good deal on some model Ms, but I've got an issue with them. On the top right of the boards, there are some numbers and letters engraved into the plastic. They are not too deep, so I was wondering if there was a way of filling the marks with some kind of putty, sanding it a little to match the texture, and dab some paint on it? Maybe someone has done something like this? Any help is appreciated!

Sanding it isn't going to match any speckled texture if that's what the Model M has. While restoring my FAME keyboard, the texture got sanded off thanks to trying to remove a stain that went deeper into the plastic than I had realized. In order to restore the texture to the board, I sanded off all the original texture and using some matte clear coat (Eastwood 2K urethane aerosol), and it worked really well (idea came from perusing Photoelectric's painting thread). I've heard that a light sandblasting can give plastic texture again too.
 
Caveat here is that the FAME didn't have heavy texturing on it like some boards I've seen where they practically look like they have tiny scales, so it didn't take much. I don't know how the Model M's texture is. You could try filling it in with an epoxy putty, or plast-aid, but you're looking into far more work than you realize if you want to try and blend it in and paint and retexture it. Especially if this is just to resell.

I'd say be straight up with your customers and just sell what you have. If this was for a personal restoration project, I'd be all for it, but if this is just for profit, er... People do bump up prices heavily for restored boards.

[chiptea]

Thanks for the advice guys. I guess I should have specified: I don't think removing the etchings on an SSK is putting lipstick on a pig  It sounded like I had regular old model Ms now that I look back. Sorry for the confusion.
They aren't too deep, so I think I could do an ok job with some putty and paint. I dug around and found a bad photo of the damage: http://i.imgur.com/3jMi8Pu.png
It doesn't appear to be too deep, or too wide. Still a bit on the edge, but I'm getting a pretty good deal on them. My thoughts are that with a little work it could turn out looking almost as good as new.

Edit: A bit more info... I'm getting two; one for personal use, and one to sell. I'd like to restore them fully (bolt mod, possible usb mod, and fix the etching problem). I'll be selling the one at a reasonable price, as I got a good deal, and I don't want to charge an insane amount. I was thinking $250 USD if it ends up looking good. That's fine for a bolt/usb modded SSK, right? I would rather like to take care of the problem than sticking something over it. Bringing them back to their former glory would be worth the time for me. Let me know what you guys think!

[fohat.digs]

People do bump up  *asking*  prices heavily for restored boards.

And rarely get them.

[E3E]

People do bump up  *asking*  prices heavily for restored boards.

And rarely get them.

Seeing yellowed old logo salmon Alps Dell AT101s go for around $150 and blue alps Omnikeys go for somewhere above $100 and below $200 (the last guy tried to sell for $290, as delusional as he was), Acer KB101As sell for 100-150, all of the above being yellowed and not in "like-new" condition.... Well, I can imagine some people do pay a bit more for restored boards.

Don't restored models often sell on the ClickyKeyboards site and the site of that one guy who restores and repairs Northgates?

[jdcarpe]

Thanks for the advice guys. I guess I should have specified: I don't think removing the etchings on an SSK is putting lipstick on a pig  It sounded like I had regular old model Ms now that I look back. Sorry for the confusion.
They aren't too deep, so I think I could do an ok job with some putty and paint. I dug around and found a bad photo of the damage: http://i.imgur.com/3jMi8Pu.png
It doesn't appear to be too deep, or too wide. Still a bit on the edge, but I'm getting a pretty good deal on them. My thoughts are that with a little work it could turn out looking almost as good as new.

Edit: A bit more info... I'm getting two; one for personal use, and one to sell. I'd like to restore them fully (bolt mod, possible usb mod, and fix the etching problem). I'll be selling the one at a reasonable price, as I got a good deal, and I don't want to charge an insane amount. I was thinking $250 USD if it ends up looking good. That's fine for a bolt/usb modded SSK, right? I would rather like to take care of the problem than sticking something over it. Bringing them back to their former glory would be worth the time for me. Let me know what you guys think!

As somewhat of a collector myself, I'd prefer to have the keyboard in pure stock condition, no bolt mod, no USB, no cosmetic refinishing. If I wanted to do anything to it, I'd prefer to be the one to make that decision. You would probably reduce the value, rather than increase it, by messing with them.

If you want to try something on yours first, maybe hit it with a Mr Clean Magic Eraser first, and see how that works.

[chiptea]

Allright, I might go ahead and do that. What do you think they'd be worth stock, considering that they have those markings that you saw in the above picture? I'd like to see if It's worth buying.

[jdcarpe]

I'm not 100% sure, as I haven't been following the market lately. You might ask in the Price Check thread.

[fohat.digs]

Seeing yellowed old logo salmon Alps Dell AT101s go for around $150 and blue alps Omnikeys go for somewhere above $100 and below $200

I would think that a blue Alps Northgate would be worth a good deal more than an salmon Alps Dell, but I am not really in the market any more.

But I think that you should take jdcarpe's advice: sell it as-is.

Although a certain person might well pay another person $100 to do a restoration job, you should not assume that a restoration job, in and of itself, would raise the market value by $100.

[E3E]

Seeing yellowed old logo salmon Alps Dell AT101s go for around $150 and blue alps Omnikeys go for somewhere above $100 and below $200

I would think that a blue Alps Northgate would be worth a good deal more than an salmon Alps Dell, but I am not really in the market any more.

But I think that you should take jdcarpe's advice: sell it as-is.

Although a certain person might well pay another person $100 to do a restoration job, you should not assume that a restoration job, in and of itself, would raise the market value by $100.

I do agree with all your points here, fohat (I always read your name as foghat, lol  ).

Like JD, I'd also rather buy a yellowed or otherwise disheveled keyboard so I can restore it myself. That alone increases personal value due to the investment and effort made in bringing the board back to a nice condition.  Restored boards do tend to get listed for a bit more than unrestored, and while I find that to be pretty justified thanks to the work put in... for anyone who can do it themselves, that's usually work that wasn't asked for, haha.

Here's some crazy examples: I thought this was a salmon alps, but it was actually a black alps model AT101 that sold for $150.   
 
Meanwhile, we have a likely blue alps Northgate Omnikey 102 that went for $100.   
 
In the end, I think its hard to set prices on things as they vary so much. I've seen AT101s go for around $150, but there was another recently that went for $100 that was salmon alps and I got mine for $29.99 before shipping. There was that guy who set another 102 Omnikey at $290 BIN but ended up taking a best offer (the price of which is anyone's guess). I think the prices for a lot of these boards are overblown though.