The Living Soldering Thread

[ApocalypseMaow]

Dudes! I just ordered a Aoyue 937+, so stoked.

[kaiserreich]

I'm having a problem desoldering Cherry MX plate mount switches.  It seems that when they soldered the board (Poker 2), the solder went very high up on the pins.  I'm using the Radio Shack desoldering iron with bulb now and it can't seem to melt the solder high up on the pins.  Also, it takes quite a bit of force to push the desoldered switches out.  Is this normal?

Is your iron hot enough to melt Pb-free solder?

[PointyFox]

I'm having a problem desoldering Cherry MX plate mount switches.  It seems that when they soldered the board (Poker 2), the solder went very high up on the pins.  I'm using the Radio Shack desoldering iron with bulb now and it can't seem to melt the solder high up on the pins.  Also, it takes quite a bit of force to push the desoldered switches out.  Is this normal?

Is your iron hot enough to melt Pb-free solder?

Yes.

Also, I just bought a Hakko 808 kit from eBay.  I hope it works

[TheSoulhunter]

I'm having a problem desoldering Cherry MX plate mount switches.  It seems that when they soldered the board (Poker 2), the solder went very high up on the pins.  I'm using the Radio Shack desoldering iron with bulb now and it can't seem to melt the solder high up on the pins.  Also, it takes quite a bit of force to push the desoldered switches out.  Is this normal?

Is your iron hot enough to melt Pb-free solder?

Yes.

Also, I just bought a Hakko 808 kit from eBay.  I hope it works

Good decision...
If it takes "quite a bit of force" to push the switches out that probably means some solder was left -> Risk of ripping a solder pad off -> B0rked PCB

[JonasDK]

I'm on the lookout for a cheap station, and i can't get my hands on the recommended ones. I did some digging and found some, but i don't know if they're any good. Do anyone know something about this and this station?

[vun]

I'm on the lookout for a cheap station, and i can't get my hands on the recommended ones. I did some digging and found some, but i don't know if they're any good. Do anyone know something about this and this station?

They look like WLC-100 clones, I'd recommend taking a look at this. It's the one I have, I haven't used it all that much but it's been brilliant so far, and I have a friend who does a bunch of small electronics soldering with his. Bit more pricey than the ones you linked, but worth it I'd say.

[JonasDK]

They look like WLC-100 clones, I'd recommend taking a look at this. It's the one I have, I haven't used it all that much but it's been brilliant so far, and I have a friend who does a bunch of small electronics soldering with his. Bit more pricey than the ones you linked, but worth it I'd say.

It's about 5 times more expensive than the other ones  !

[yasuo]

what name of this tool, it seems for desoldering

That owned lowpoly

[gnubag]

what name of this tool, it seems for desoldering

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That owned lowpoly

it is not for desoldering. it is for compressed air.

[TheSoulhunter]

what name of this tool, it seems for desoldering

Show Image

That owned lowpoly

That's what I use to clean my clothes after work...

[rarar]

Gonna get into soldering soon just need to save for a while to be able to get the stuff I need to solder properly

[HoffmanMyster]

Gonna get into soldering soon just need to save for a while to be able to get the stuff I need to solder properly

You can do quality soldering with the cheap tools, it's just a bit harder and maybe time consuming to get it just right.  It might be beneficial to get some experience on the cheaper tools.

What I mean is, you've already got an iron, so you can "get into it" right now. 

[jdcarpe]

And if you learn how to solder well with a cheap iron, imagine how much easier it will be when you get proper equipment!

[MJ45]

Gonna get into soldering soon just need to save for a while to be able to get the stuff I need to solder properly

Practice on some old electronic stuff (everybody's got some) that you wont worry about ruining. Watch some how to videos, WFD has some good ones. Good tools help but developing you skills is most important, and that takes practice.

[vun]

Gonna get into soldering soon just need to save for a while to be able to get the stuff I need to solder properly

Practice on some old electronic stuff (everybody's got some) that you wont worry about ruining. Watch some how to videos, WFD has some good ones. Good tools help but developing you skills is most important, and that takes practice.

I found the EEVBlog videos to be incredibly helpful for learning the basics of soldering, although his videos are aimed at aspiring engineers so just keep in mind that you can get away with cheaper soldering gear for basic soldering.

[PointyFox]

what name of this tool, it seems for desoldering

 )

[gnubag]

what name of this tool, it seems for desoldering

Show Image

 :))

it works, trust me.

[rarar]

Gonna get into soldering soon just need to save for a while to be able to get the stuff I need to solder properly

Practice on some old electronic stuff (everybody's got some) that you wont worry about ruining. Watch some how to videos, WFD has some good ones. Good tools help but developing you skills is most important, and that takes practice.

I found the EEVBlog videos to be incredibly helpful for learning the basics of soldering, although his videos are aimed at aspiring engineers so just keep in mind that you can get away with cheaper soldering gear for basic soldering.

I've watched his part 1 and 2 on soldering, its quite helpful

[MOZ]

And if you learn how to solder well with a cheap iron, imagine how much easier it will be when you get proper equipment!

I know a bunch of labour guys working at my uncle's electronics factory and they all use $3 cheap irons, and they use it like pros, I can only imagine what they would do with proper equipment, wield it like a sword.

[PointyFox]

And if you learn how to solder well with a cheap iron, imagine how much easier it will be when you get proper equipment!

I know a bunch of labour guys working at my uncle's electronics factory and they all use $3 cheap irons, and they use it like pros, I can only imagine what they would do with proper equipment, wield it like a sword.

They'd break it.

[MOZ]

And if you learn how to solder well with a cheap iron, imagine how much easier it will be when you get proper equipment!

I know a bunch of labour guys working at my uncle's electronics factory and they all use $3 cheap irons, and they use it like pros, I can only imagine what they would do with proper equipment, wield it like a sword.

They'd break it.

Hahahahaha

[yasuo]

what name of this tool, it seems for desoldering

Show Image

 :))

:)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
The Living Joke Thread it seems  ^-^

[SpAmRaY]

what name of this tool, it seems for desoldering

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 :))

That's what you use to pop the switches out of the plate. ;)

[PointyFox]

what name of this tool, it seems for desoldering

Show Image

 :))

That's what you use to pop the switches out of the plate. ;)

Looks a lot easier than using this to pop them out:

 ^-^

[hasu]

 How do you apply flux to PCB pad? With syringe, brush or pen? Post pic of your equipment and your experience!

I had used this brush with risk of spill out of bottle flux, but I'm happy with BON pen now

[PointyFox]

Got the Hakko 808 desoldering gun.  It made short work of everything.  Still had to press a bit to get the switches to pop out though, but nothing was too stubborn.  It did however lift a pad off the board :C , but at least it was a double sided board. 

Does anyone know how to fix the pad? 

[mkawa]

How do you apply flux to PCB pad? With syringe, brush or pen? Post pic of your equipment and your experience!

I had used this brush with risk of spill out of bottle flux, but I'm happy with BON pen now

Show Image

i use a small luer lock squeeze bottle with a 27ga needle. even then, if i just heat up the needle a little with the iron, the flux will flow to the point where i just kind of direct the flow and it covers everything i point the needle at. this is with MG Chem rosin flux. I buy big bulk bottles of the stuff and then fill my applicator bottle with the needle. this is also for thru-hole components. i think a fine brush or just plain old solder paste would be better if i were doing smt

[mashby]

Does anyone know how to fix the pad?

I did the same thing on one of my Poker's, so I'm curious of how people have fixed this in the past as well.

[WhiteFireDragon]

Got the Hakko 808 desoldering gun.  It made short work of everything.  Still had to press a bit to get the switches to pop out though, but nothing was too stubborn.  It did however lift a pad off the board :C , but at least it was a double sided board. 

Does anyone know how to fix the pad? 

If you lifted the pad, that means you either applied too much heat, pressure, left it on too long, or combinations of all 3. Pads/traces have some kind of glue or adhesive, every time you solder or desolder will weaken the adhesive. If it's already lifted and NOT double sided, then you'll have to bridge the connection with a circuit trace pen or with a small wire.

[mkawa]

and circuit trace pens are a HUGE PITA

[hasu]

i use a small luer lock squeeze bottle with a 27ga needle. even then, if i just heat up the needle a little with the iron, the flux will flow to the point where i just kind of direct the flow and it covers everything i point the needle at. this is with MG Chem rosin flux. I buy big bulk bottles of the stuff and then fill my applicator bottle with the needle. this is also for thru-hole components. i think a fine brush or just plain old solder paste would be better if i were doing smt

Squeeze bottle with needle sounds better to handle than syringe. I didn't see people using it around here yet. I'll try to find and get it later. Thanks.

[mashby]

Below is a closeup shot of the pad that I pulled off of my Poker. The keys that are affected are the  - [ and '


Pulled A Pad by cpkey, on Flickr

Looking at the bottom of the PCB I see that there is a trace connecting them all together, but my best guess is that what I need to bridge is the pad between the "0" and the "-". At least that what it looks like if I look at an undamaged PCB.


What It Should Look Like by cpkey, on Flickr

Am I on the right track?

[gnubag]

Below is a closeup shot of the pad that I pulled off of my Poker. The keys that are affected are the  - [ and '

Show Image

Pulled A Pad by cpkey, on Flickr

Looking at the bottom of the PCB I see that there is a trace connecting them all together, but my best guess is that what I need to bridge is the pad between the "0" and the "-". At least that what it looks like if I look at an undamaged PCB.

Show Image

What It Should Look Like by cpkey, on Flickr

Am I on the right track?

yes.
if you still doubt yourself you can plug the keyboard in and test it with a paperclip or something as a bridge.

[mashby]

yes.
if you still doubt yourself you can plug the keyboard in and test it with a paperclip or something as a bridge.

Thanks gnubag.

So I'm guessing I need to solder a wire to the respective pin on each switch. Or at least to the pin on the missing pad and then I could solder the wire to the pad on the undamaged switch?

[jdcarpe]

yes.
if you still doubt yourself you can plug the keyboard in and test it with a paperclip or something as a bridge.

Thanks gnubag.

So I'm guessing I need to solder a wire to the respective pin on each switch. Or at least to the pin on the missing pad and then I could solder the wire to the pad on the undamaged switch?

Correct.

Did you pull up the trace? The Poker PCB is double sided, right? Shouldn't it be okay if the other side pad is still there?

[mkawa]

yah isn't that an unnecessary pad?

[mashby]

yah isn't that an unnecessary pad?

You tell me.

Those three keys don't work and that's the only thing I've seen that could be causing it. Diodes check out, switches are good. 

[MOZ]

Haven't seen a Poker PCB up close, however if there are tracks joining on the side you lifted the pad, then it won't work.

As for those asking about flux, I use good old solder paste, applied using a toothbrush and once everything is done, I brush the pCB clean with some unleaded clean petrol.

[hasu]

mashby,
From poker's matrix, - , 0, p, [, ; and ' should be connected each other and share same colum line. Check connectivity and find bad trace with multimeter.

I hope this helps you somewhat.

Code: [Select]

Poker Mod Resource
==================
2013/01/02

Key Matrix pins
---------------
These key events are observed with xev command on Xorg/Linux.
PCB says "Fn Keyboard Rev 1.2". Column pins are active low and Row pins are input with pull-up.

    R\C|7       8       9       10      15      16      23      24      25      26      27      28      36
    ---+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    3  |z       x       c       v       m       ,       .       (P6)    Fn      (9)     (8)     (?)     RCtrl
    4  |(*1)    (*2)    (*3)    b       n       (X)     App     (P7)    (1)     (PgUp)  /       (RAlt)  (4)
    5  |`       (F1)    (F2)    5       6       =       (F8)    (P4)    (6)     (PgDn)  -       (?)     LCtrl
    6  |1       2       3       4       7       8       9       (Left)  (X)     (X)     0       (*4)    (F5)
    43 |q       w       e       r       u       i       o       (Right) (X)     (5)     p       (SclLk) (Pause)
    44 |Tab     (CapLk) (F3)    t       y       ]       (F7)    LShift  (3)     LWin    [       (?)     (7)
    45 |a       s       d       f       j       k       l       RShift  Rwin    (4)     ;       (?)     (6)
    46 |(Esc)   (,)     (F4)    g       h       (F6)    (X)     (Down)  (2)     (0)     '       LAlt    (5)
    ( ): not real keys
    (X): no key event
    (?): unclear(media key?)
    *1: Muhenkan
    *2: Henkan-Mode
    *3: Hiragana-katakana
    *4: ScreenShot event?


LED pins and resistors
----------------------
Esc:            13(active low), R15(1.5KOhm)
CapsLock:       17(active low), R8(1.5KOhm)
Spc, Arrows:    14(active low), R13(1.5KOhm) for 4 LEDs


DIP switche pins
----------------
Turning switch on makes line pull down to ground.
SW1:            47(input with pull-up)
SW2:            30(input with pull-up)
SW3:            1(input with pull-up)
SW4:            2(input with pull-up)

EDIT: fixed at matrix(4,27)

[mkawa]

yah isn't that an unnecessary pad?

You tell me.

Those three keys don't work and that's the only thing I've seen that could be causing it. Diodes check out, switches are good. 

pic of back of board tehre?

[hasu]

pic of back of board tehre?

I just got home and took a pic, this is backside of my Poker PCB.
It seems there is bad connection between 0 and - key on mashby's Poker. It should be patched with short wire there.


EDIT: I was confused and missed context of conversation. Ignore me.
SW99 pad was clearly damaged and lost conection between SW99(-) and SW113(0). I missed completely.

[mashby]

pic of back of board tehre?

I linked to it in my earlier post, but here's a photo of the bottom of the PCB


Another Closeup by cpkey, on Flickr

It seems there is bad connection between 0 and - key on mashby's Poker. It should be patched with short wire there.

EDIT: I was confused and missed context of conversation. Ignore me.
SW99 pad was clearly damaged and lost conection between SW99(-) and SW113(0). I missed completely.

Thanks hash, that was my guess, but it's good to hear it confirmed from others smarter than me. I'll play with it this weekend and see if a jumper does the trick.

[mkawa]

see that dark joint on the plus where you stripped the pad on the other side? that's a classic cold joint. it has microfractures in it that prevent it from conducting properly. reflow it.

[MOZ]

He striped the pad on the -, and the problem is the joint between - and 0 has been destroyed, as the pad on the front of the PCB was connecting the - and the 0.

[mkawa]

yah i see it now. that's a completely ridiculous design. but ok whatever. i would actually dig into the top layer to expose some copper and then use either a gigantic glob of solder or some conductive epoxy to bridge between the pin/pad that still exists and the trace that should just be attached to it with a via.

[rarar]

BTW, does anyone in the MN area have a hakko 888 I could borrow for a day or two so I could try it out before buying?

[HoffmanMyster]

BTW, does anyone in the MN area have a hakko 888 I could borrow for a day or two so I could try it out before buying?

Rarar: I will be in mpls is a week and I will have a 888D.  PM me if you're interested in trying it. 

[rarar]

BTW, does anyone in the MN area have a hakko 888 I could borrow for a day or two so I could try it out before buying?

Rarar: I will be in mpls is a week and I will have a 888D.  PM me if you're interested in trying it. 

OHBOYOHBOYOHBOY

[MOZ]

yah i see it now. that's a completely ridiculous design. but ok whatever. i would actually dig into the top layer to expose some copper and then use either a gigantic glob of solder or some conductive epoxy to bridge between the pin/pad that still exists and the trace that should just be attached to it with a via.

Yeah, just expose some copper on that trace (Be very careful) and use a large blob of solder, or better would be to use a bridge. I made a small mistake with my ErgoDox TRRS connector and then used an LED leg to create a quickfix. I'll post picture later.

[mkawa]

conductive epoxy = ye olde jb weld btw