Author Topic: 60% boards - what's the attraction?  (Read 87061 times)

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Offline mashby

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #150 on: Tue, 12 November 2013, 11:03:57 »
Well, I don't want to compete with the community here.  I want to help support it, and perhaps introduce some new designs which had not been considered before.  I think what we have is clearly better than the Poker, HHKB, and FC660.  :)

That sounds very exciting. I can't wait to see what you guys come out with.

I know most of the discussion has been how it relates to using using mechanical keyboards with laptops and being mobile. I think 60% are popular for travel, but I would argue that they are equally popular for looks as well. Those favoring a more minimal style that was introduced with the Apple BT keyboard that comes standard with all iMacs for example.

Personally, I'm more in the minimalistic camp and don't travel with a mechanical because I use a laptop. However, should I ever switch to an iPad, that would be a different story. I would more than likely use my iPad much like wife does. She uses the Apple BT keyboard with her iPad all the time.

With the mobile space in focus, then one of the key deciding factors would be wireless. No one wants to have to lug around a cable or have to buy the camera connection kit if they don't have to. The mobile space is ripe for a quality travel keyboard like you're hinting at. :thumb:

As for me personally, I have found that I really enjoy having a 60% in a heavy aluminum case. This is probably the exact opposite of where you're going and I don't think that I'm the target demographic, so consider these thoughts heavily salted.  ;)  I just found it interesting how much I preferred the solid typing experience of using a Poker X in the Hammer 60% case after typing on a Poker X in the MKC 60% for the past two days. The feel is remarkably different and as an early adopter/enthusiast, I'm also someone that would pay extra for said heavy aluminum case.

If you guys deliver a kick ass travel keyboard, I think you'll have a winner on your hands. And who knows, there might be an aftermarket for 3rd party cases and the like for those of us outliers.  :cool:

Offline rowdy

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #151 on: Tue, 12 November 2013, 18:23:59 »
60% boards - what's the attraction?

This.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Belfong

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60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #152 on: Tue, 12 November 2013, 18:25:53 »
((Accidental post from hand phone))
« Last Edit: Tue, 12 November 2013, 18:29:16 by Belfong »
 

Offline rowdy

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #153 on: Tue, 12 November 2013, 18:31:46 »
((Accidental post from hand phone))

Sometimes those are the most interesting ;)
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline C5Allroad

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #154 on: Tue, 12 November 2013, 20:12:59 »
For me anyway.
Having your arms closer together.
Being able to take it places easier. To take my shine 3 to someones house I throw into it's box and go. But it's too big. Imagine a tiny board that fits in almost any bag.  :D

Offline SUPER432

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #155 on: Wed, 13 November 2013, 02:24:13 »
Personally:

Closer distance to the mouse - it's the same concept as tenkeyless but pushed further.
They look cool, though this is just my opinion of aesthetics.
A lot of keys removed aren't used all that often - most of the F-keys. I do miss dedicated Page Up/Down in apps where I can't substitute something else.
If you use Vim then you don't need no stinkin' arrow keys  :D

Offline xandr

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #156 on: Wed, 13 November 2013, 02:36:57 »
[...] You also sacrifice PgUp, PgDn, Home, and End. [...]

I'm a little surprised to see this from someone whose primary product is a Mac keyboard. When was the last time you actually used those keys on a Mac?

Even when coding (obj-c, php, lua, html, css, js) I'm not using those keys ever. Ctrl+A/Ctrl+E is available in any application on Mac OS and I find those to be way more accessible while typing than Home/End. Since the Emacs cursor movement key bindings (Ctrl+P/Ctrl+F/Ctrl+N/Ctrl+B for Up/Right/Down/Left) are available everywhere as well the cursor keys aren't missing either.

Combine that with the fact that the the F-keys are used rarely to never on Mac OS either, a 60% - at least for me - happens to be just perfect on a Mac.

Well of course the added desk space and the shorter distance between keyboard and mouse for the right hand are huge perks as well.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #157 on: Wed, 13 November 2013, 03:40:42 »
[...] You also sacrifice PgUp, PgDn, Home, and End. [...]

I'm a little surprised to see this from someone whose primary product is a Mac keyboard. When was the last time you actually used those keys on a Mac?

Even when coding (obj-c, php, lua, html, css, js) I'm not using those keys ever. Ctrl+A/Ctrl+E is available in any application on Mac OS and I find those to be way more accessible while typing than Home/End. Since the Emacs cursor movement key bindings (Ctrl+P/Ctrl+F/Ctrl+N/Ctrl+B for Up/Right/Down/Left) are available everywhere as well the cursor keys aren't missing either.

Combine that with the fact that the the F-keys are used rarely to never on Mac OS either, a 60% - at least for me - happens to be just perfect on a Mac.

Well of course the added desk space and the shorter distance between keyboard and mouse for the right hand are huge perks as well.

For me Home, End, Pg Up and Pg Down work differently on Mac to Windows.  I do not tend to use them much, if at all, on Mac, mainly because they work slightly differently.

Function keys - what about Expose?  And games (should you happen to play games on a Mac, which I do)?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline spiceBar

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #158 on: Wed, 13 November 2013, 09:01:58 »
[...] You also sacrifice PgUp, PgDn, Home, and End. [...]

I'm a little surprised to see this from someone whose primary product is a Mac keyboard. When was the last time you actually used those keys on a Mac?

Even when coding (obj-c, php, lua, html, css, js) I'm not using those keys ever. Ctrl+A/Ctrl+E is available in any application on Mac OS and I find those to be way more accessible while typing than Home/End. Since the Emacs cursor movement key bindings (Ctrl+P/Ctrl+F/Ctrl+N/Ctrl+B for Up/Right/Down/Left) are available everywhere as well the cursor keys aren't missing either.

Combine that with the fact that the the F-keys are used rarely to never on Mac OS either, a 60% - at least for me - happens to be just perfect on a Mac.

Well of course the added desk space and the shorter distance between keyboard and mouse for the right hand are huge perks as well.

For me Home, End, Pg Up and Pg Down work differently on Mac to Windows.  I do not tend to use them much, if at all, on Mac, mainly because they work slightly differently.

Function keys - what about Expose?  And games (should you happen to play games on a Mac, which I do)?

The Mac does not make good use of Home/End/PgUp/PgDn, but they are not lost.

I have reprogrammed all the navigation keys on my Macs to work exactly like on Windows or Linux.

So it does not matter on which system I am, the navigation keys work the same for me.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #159 on: Wed, 13 November 2013, 09:50:08 »
Just wanted to re-emphasize that I would very much like a Matias 60% board.

2014: Year of the Alps/Matias/Alps derivatives. Calling it now.

Offline theMANtonio

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #160 on: Wed, 13 November 2013, 10:02:02 »
Personally:

Closer distance to the mouse - it's the same concept as tenkeyless but pushed further.
They look cool, though this is just my opinion of aesthetics.
A lot of keys removed aren't used all that often - most of the F-keys. I do miss dedicated Page Up/Down in apps where I can't substitute something else.
If you use Vim then you don't need no stinkin' arrow keys  :D

I agree with this. But I don't actually miss Page Up/Down since I usually scroll with my mouse or trackpad. I do sometimes miss dedicated arrows.

I have a RF 87U at work and a HHKB at home so I have to re-adjust every night. Not a big deal though.

Offline Matias

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #161 on: Wed, 13 November 2013, 12:07:36 »
I guess this space will get more interesting once you post up some sketches or something hehe. After playing around with the minds of 60% of enthusiasts.  ;D

Sorry to be so cryptic, but it takes time to develop a new product, so I don't want to reveal all until we're closer to the release date.

Having said that, I'm glad I posted here.  This thread has been extremely helpful to my understanding of 60% users.  I don't think it's an understatement to say that our 60% board would likely not have seen the light of day without the insight gained from GH.



The Minila has imo the same issue as the Pure Pro, all 75% boards, the FC660M and others: the lack of replacement keycaps. For a lot of us this hobby is a lot about modding and when you have a hard time making it look the way you want it to look that is a turnoff. This is probably also the reason why the Poker is so popular, it is very customizable and uses standard keycap sizes.

Also, this has been the obstacle for all Alps-based projects to date, unfortunately.

... an obstacle I hope to eliminate in the coming months.



I know most of the discussion has been how it relates to using using mechanical keyboards with laptops and being mobile. I think 60% are popular for travel, but I would argue that they are equally popular for looks as well. Those favoring a more minimal style that was introduced with the Apple BT keyboard that comes standard with all iMacs for example.

I've also come to realize that I don't need the function keys as much as I thought I did.

I mostly use them for media controls and showing/hiding Dashboard — all functions which can be done just as easily via a well designed Fn layer.



As for me personally, I have found that I really enjoy having a 60% in a heavy aluminum case. This is probably the exact opposite of where you're going and I don't think that I'm the target demographic, so consider these thoughts heavily salted.  ;)  I just found it interesting how much I preferred the solid typing experience of using a Poker X in the Hammer 60% case after typing on a Poker X in the MKC 60% for the past two days. The feel is remarkably different and as an early adopter/enthusiast, I'm also someone that would pay extra for said heavy aluminum case.

If you guys deliver a kick ass travel keyboard, I think you'll have a winner on your hands. And who knows, there might be an aftermarket for 3rd party cases and the like for those of us outliers.  :cool:

Yes, if it's popular enough, you may just get your aluminum case.  I'll be releasing the mechanical specs of the PCB, to help facilitate that happening.



60% boards - what's the attraction?

This.

That's actually the seed that led to my considering this project.



[...] You also sacrifice PgUp, PgDn, Home, and End. [...]

I'm a little surprised to see this from someone whose primary product is a Mac keyboard. When was the last time you actually used those keys on a Mac?

I use them frequently — especially PgUp & PgDn.

I do a lot of reading.  Those keys get a lot of heavy use navigating pages and tabs (Ctrl-PgUp/Dn).



Just wanted to re-emphasize that I would very much like a Matias 60% board.

2014: Year of the Alps/Matias/Alps derivatives. Calling it now.

 :cool:


« Last Edit: Wed, 13 November 2013, 12:10:37 by Matias »

Offline mashby

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #162 on: Wed, 13 November 2013, 16:17:50 »
I only have one thing to say to you sir…



Offline Matias

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #163 on: Wed, 13 November 2013, 21:23:20 »
I only have one thing to say to you sir…


Show Image


Wow, I'm speechless...  :)


Offline tuxsavvy

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #164 on: Wed, 13 November 2013, 22:43:08 »
I guess this space will get more interesting once you post up some sketches or something hehe. After playing around with the minds of 60% of enthusiasts.  ;D

Sorry to be so cryptic, but it takes time to develop a new product, so I don't want to reveal all until we're closer to the release date.

Having said that, I'm glad I posted here.  This thread has been extremely helpful to my understanding of 60% users.  I don't think it's an understatement to say that our 60% board would likely not have seen the light of day without the insight gained from GH.

Ahh well in that case I'll try and keep watch of this space then. I know prototyping can take up time and all but maybe some possible mock up images might  be nice. Not that I'm forcing you to release one or whatever, just it would be interesting to see from the accumulation of what inputs you have received and what you have decided to put in charge. Having said that I am not some sort of keyboard "paparazzi"  :p just curious. In either case I shall await for more details of the final product.

I guess I would like to thank you also for hearing from us and taking in the inputs we are providing. I just don't think there are that many manufacturers out there that would poll in an open forum where there's loads of enthusiasts are let alone to think that they would be moved if a few people decide to email the manufacturer directly to voice their concerns and all. There is certainly lots of keyboard innovations going on with each company trying this and that to maintain their appeal to their clientele but I don't think there is one company that would take all the inputs of others whom uses varied brands of hardware to come up with. Something that I guess would seem as "magic bullet" with a keyboard incorporating most if not all the features found on other keyboards. This is why I presumed it would be a game changer within the scene (at least for 60% wise).
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Offline Linkbane

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #165 on: Wed, 13 November 2013, 22:44:08 »
I only have one thing to say to you sir…


Show Image


Wow, I'm speechless...  :)

I guess I'm severely late to the party, but is making a matrix layout a possibility? I'm rather interested in trying Matias switches, but unless I could justify it ergonomically as they probably wouldn't replace my other boards, I probably couldn't get them.

Thanks, Matias.
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Offline Oobly

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #166 on: Thu, 14 November 2013, 01:36:53 »
I only have one thing to say to you sir…


Show Image


Wow, I'm speechless...  :)

I guess I'm severely late to the party, but is making a matrix layout a possibility? I'm rather interested in trying Matias switches, but unless I could justify it ergonomically as they probably wouldn't replace my other boards, I probably couldn't get them.

Thanks, Matias.

http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=52

 :D

Of course you still have to make the actual keyboard, but...
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline Linkbane

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #167 on: Thu, 14 November 2013, 01:43:36 »
I only have one thing to say to you sir…


Show Image


Wow, I'm speechless...  :)

I guess I'm severely late to the party, but is making a matrix layout a possibility? I'm rather interested in trying Matias switches, but unless I could justify it ergonomically as they probably wouldn't replace my other boards, I probably couldn't get them.

Thanks, Matias.

http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=52

 :D

Of course you still have to make the actual keyboard, but...

Before clicking on the link: !!
After:  Grr.
I just don't think that a matrix-style PCB has been created yet.

EDIT: Smilies just don't want to show.
« Last Edit: Thu, 14 November 2013, 10:56:34 by Linkbane »
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Offline terran5992

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #168 on: Thu, 14 November 2013, 02:27:17 »
I only have one thing to say to you sir…


Show Image


Wow, I'm speechless...  :)

I guess I'm severely late to the party, but is making a matrix layout a possibility? I'm rather interested in trying Matias switches, but unless I could justify it ergonomically as they probably wouldn't replace my other boards, I probably couldn't get them.

Thanks, Matias.

http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=52

 :D

Of course you still have to make the actual keyboard, but...

Before clicking on the link:  :D
After:  :rolleyes:
I just don't think that a matrix-style PCB has been created yet.

Really? I thought that it had already been invented

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Offline Oobly

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #169 on: Thu, 14 November 2013, 03:03:48 »
I only have one thing to say to you sir…


Show Image


Wow, I'm speechless...  :)

I guess I'm severely late to the party, but is making a matrix layout a possibility? I'm rather interested in trying Matias switches, but unless I could justify it ergonomically as they probably wouldn't replace my other boards, I probably couldn't get them.

Thanks, Matias.

http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=52

 :D

Of course you still have to make the actual keyboard, but...

Before clicking on the link:  :D
After:  :rolleyes:
I just don't think that a matrix-style PCB has been created yet.

Sorry to take this off-topic, Matias..

You can have a 3mm acrylic sheet laser cut with switch holes and wire it up by hand. It's a lot of work, but less work than designing and having a PCB made. It could actually look pretty awesome if you use clear acrylic and clear Matias switches  :D

Acrylic can also be bent by using heat, specifically if you use a wire heater to heat just a thin line you can bend it neatly. Depending on your skill, you could make an awesome custom board. Can put all the features you want from your "ultimate" keyboard in it and the cost isn't prohibitive.

I am interested to try the Matias switches, too, so I may get some from MK for one of my next builds. The price is good.

Back on topic: Will the keyboard layout be able to be flashed to the keyboard controller or will it use a single set layout and require software to change layouts?
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline Linkbane

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #170 on: Thu, 14 November 2013, 10:57:16 »
Whoa, I didn't know about that. Knowledge to learn, thanks Oobly!
Quickfire TK MX Blue Corsair K60 MX Red Ducky Shine 3 Yellow TKL MX Blue Leopold FC660C
Current best: 162 wpm.

Offline frvrngn

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #171 on: Thu, 14 November 2013, 12:52:45 »
I would definitely purchase a 60% Matias board.  I like my Quiet Pro quite a bit but would love a more compact version and for some reason the Pro Mini just doesnt speak to me.
Currently using: Cherry G80-1800 Ergo Clears, HHKB Pro 2, RF 87U Silent

Offline daerid

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #172 on: Thu, 14 November 2013, 14:24:59 »
I'm still holding out for Cherry pinout compatible Matias switches. Matias/Alps switches in my ErgoDoxen? YES PLEASE

Offline Calyx

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #173 on: Thu, 14 November 2013, 14:44:08 »
Setup: Microdox (Workman-P) & Tilted Msft Trackball Explorer

Offline Matias

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #174 on: Fri, 15 November 2013, 08:27:10 »
I guess this space will get more interesting once you post up some sketches or something hehe. After playing around with the minds of 60% of enthusiasts.  ;D

Sorry to be so cryptic, but it takes time to develop a new product, so I don't want to reveal all until we're closer to the release date.

Having said that, I'm glad I posted here.  This thread has been extremely helpful to my understanding of 60% users.  I don't think it's an understatement to say that our 60% board would likely not have seen the light of day without the insight gained from GH.

Ahh well in that case I'll try and keep watch of this space then. I know prototyping can take up time and all but maybe some possible mock up images might  be nice. Not that I'm forcing you to release one or whatever, just it would be interesting to see from the accumulation of what inputs you have received and what you have decided to put in charge. Having said that I am not some sort of keyboard "paparazzi"  :p just curious. In either case I shall await for more details of the final product.


We normally do new product releases every January -- only 2 months away, which is not enough time.  The following January is more than a year away, which is too long to wait IMO.

If we setup a group buy, I think I'd be prepared to post drawings and details early -- perhaps even do something with the GH60 folks.  Somebody from the GH60 group can PM me if interested.



I guess I would like to thank you also for hearing from us and taking in the inputs we are providing. I just don't think there are that many manufacturers out there that would poll in an open forum where there's loads of enthusiasts are let alone to think that they would be moved if a few people decide to email the manufacturer directly to voice their concerns and all. There is certainly lots of keyboard innovations going on with each company trying this and that to maintain their appeal to their clientele but I don't think there is one company that would take all the inputs of others whom uses varied brands of hardware to come up with. Something that I guess would seem as "magic bullet" with a keyboard incorporating most if not all the features found on other keyboards. This is why I presumed it would be a game changer within the scene (at least for 60% wise).


Well, I can't promise that we'll do everything that was suggested, but I've read every comment, and seriously considered every suggestion.

If enough people want something more than what we've come up with, they can certainly build on what we did.  We'll be making components and specs available, so it will be easy for anyone wanting to start a project to get access to the parts they need, without overly severe MOQs.



Sorry to take this off-topic, Matias..

You can have a 3mm acrylic sheet laser cut with switch holes and wire it up by hand. It's a lot of work, but less work than designing and having a PCB made. It could actually look pretty awesome if you use clear acrylic and clear Matias switches  :D

Acrylic can also be bent by using heat, specifically if you use a wire heater to heat just a thin line you can bend it neatly. Depending on your skill, you could make an awesome custom board. Can put all the features you want from your "ultimate" keyboard in it and the cost isn't prohibitive.

I am interested to try the Matias switches, too, so I may get some from MK for one of my next builds. The price is good.


Sounds cool.  Post pictures if you build it.



Back on topic: Will the keyboard layout be able to be flashed to the keyboard controller or will it use a single set layout and require software to change layouts?


The latter.  Macro software is a more appropriate way to handle this IMO.

That said, if someone wants to roll their own based on the Teensy, have at it.



I guess I'm severely late to the party, but is making a matrix layout a possibility? I'm rather interested in trying Matias switches, but unless I could justify it ergonomically as they probably wouldn't replace my other boards, I probably couldn't get them.


An ErgoDox would be the way to go.  With any luck, they'll support our switches soon.

« Last Edit: Fri, 15 November 2013, 08:31:58 by Matias »

Offline Oobly

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #175 on: Fri, 15 November 2013, 08:42:22 »
So the board will be Teensy 2.0 code compatible? That would be good enough for me :D

An ErgoDox would be the way to go.  With any luck, they'll support our switches soon.

Actually, I think it may be worth getting hold of AcidFire to get his thoughts on adding Matias compatibility to his Nexus project. It's like ErgoDox, but with separate thumb areas that can be angled.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline Doppelganger

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #176 on: Fri, 15 November 2013, 16:23:43 »
Personally, I don't see the attraction at all. I want and use a full 100% keyboard! I use the num pad on the right for calculating stuff, and all of the other keys and functions like print screen. I guess its different strokes for different folks, but I have absolutely no interest in anything less than a full board  :thumb:
- There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want

Offline Linkbane

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #177 on: Fri, 15 November 2013, 16:26:03 »
Personally, I don't see the attraction at all. I want and use a full 100% keyboard! I use the num pad on the right for calculating stuff, and all of the other keys and functions like print screen. I guess its different strokes for different folks, but I have absolutely no interest in anything less than a full board  :thumb:

Good for you. Now please don't comment in a thread if you have nothing constructive to say.
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Current best: 162 wpm.

Offline Doppelganger

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #178 on: Fri, 15 November 2013, 16:27:45 »
Personally, I don't see the attraction at all. I want and use a full 100% keyboard! I use the num pad on the right for calculating stuff, and all of the other keys and functions like print screen. I guess its different strokes for different folks, but I have absolutely no interest in anything less than a full board  :thumb:

Good for you. Now please don't comment in a thread if you have nothing constructive to say.

umm wow, who pushed your buttons? If you don't agree with the viewpoint, its not "constructive"? I was responding to the OP's post with an honest opinion and different viewpoint. If you don't like others opinions, you probably shouldn't be on a forum.
« Last Edit: Fri, 15 November 2013, 16:41:05 by Doppelganger »
- There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want

Offline mashby

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #179 on: Fri, 15 November 2013, 16:42:25 »
Let's not derail this thread too much shall we.

There's been a lot of great discussion here. Yes Doppelgänger's post wasn't very constructive, but it was a contrary opinion, so let's just leave it at that. Shall we?

Offline SUPER432

  • Posts: 58
Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #180 on: Fri, 15 November 2013, 21:33:49 »
With the tiny boards there are also inevitable key re-arrangements that people may or may not like.

Personally I've taken to remapping esc to tilde and backspace to pipe like the HHKB on my other keyboards - it's ever so slightly closer and I use those two keys a lot more than the ones swapped out.

Offline Matias

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Matias 60% keyboard -- it's on!
« Reply #181 on: Sat, 16 November 2013, 15:10:20 »
Okay, just want to let everybody know that we're going ahead with this.   :cool:

It will be done as a Group Buy, with some different colour options for case and/or keycaps.  Let me know what you guys want on that front.

Time permitting, we'll start work on the case design next month, and will likely post the Interest Check in mid- to late January.


Offline AKmalamute

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #182 on: Sat, 16 November 2013, 15:13:26 »
Excellent timing! I should have recovered enough from the last wallet hack! Count me in.

uhm ... I'm partial to dark pastels, green / blue, maybe an orange legend or possibly blood orange aluminum cases. Not saying I can swing anodized aluminum but if you're askin' ...

HHKB-lite2, Dvorak user

Offline Matias

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #183 on: Sat, 16 November 2013, 15:19:40 »
Excellent timing! I should have recovered enough from the last wallet hack! Count me in.

uhm ... I'm partial to dark pastels, green / blue, maybe an orange legend or possibly blood orange aluminum cases. Not saying I can swing anodized aluminum but if you're askin' ...

Oh, I should add, that in terms of colours, if possible, post photos of what you like.

Pantone colour numbers are fine too.  :)


Offline catbuster

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #184 on: Sat, 16 November 2013, 15:20:40 »
More 60% keyboards  :cool:
Poker 2 (black) 60% mx red

Offline AKmalamute

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #185 on: Sat, 16 November 2013, 16:17:08 »
Oh, I should add, that in terms of colours, if possible, post photos of what you like.

Pantone colour numbers are fine too.  :)

Well, here is a 40% layout I was playing with in colors that come close to what I was thinking of.

Also good was the CalmDepths GB, and I recently saw a keyboard (in the "mega sale" classifieds ad) decked out in what I think was called 'raindrop' that was also in the right ballpark.

edit: also kinda liked CCnG but I've only seen it in passing, even in this forum.

Colors that stand out. Then you just need to make a Sixty case that stands out and you'll be on fire.

In the business-lingo sense, not the literal fire-mage-set-me-on-fire sense. Hafta clarify because for November I'm writing a novel with an over eager firemage.
« Last Edit: Sat, 16 November 2013, 16:23:22 by AKmalamute »

HHKB-lite2, Dvorak user

Offline davkol

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #186 on: Sat, 16 November 2013, 16:25:14 »
Red Alert!

Offline Belfong

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #187 on: Sat, 16 November 2013, 17:54:38 »
I'm in! January is a good timing too!

Colour will be Bondi Blue! /just kidding.
 

Offline BlackWidowMan777

  • Posts: 207
Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #188 on: Mon, 18 November 2013, 05:42:59 »
Excellent timing! I should have recovered enough from the last wallet hack! Count me in.

uhm ... I'm partial to dark pastels, green / blue, maybe an orange legend or possibly blood orange aluminum cases. Not saying I can swing anodized aluminum but if you're askin' ...

Oh, I should add, that in terms of colours, if possible, post photos of what you like.

Pantone colour numbers are fine too.  :)

I really like this colour  :)

http://dangwang.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/img_0560.jpg

Offline BlueBär

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #189 on: Mon, 18 November 2013, 07:13:22 »
Hmm maybe maroon or some dark brown. Brown should work very well with black keycaps.

Offline Belfong

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #190 on: Mon, 18 November 2013, 09:06:06 »
I don't have any color preference but then wouldn't mind a white in the spirit of an Apple keyboard.

Recently a GH member, sprit from Korea, took the Apple keyboard keys and made his own 60%. This brought back good nostalgic memories and if Matias 60% is the same, it would bd really great! I don't know if there's any copyright (with Apple) but I doubt it.
 

Offline Air tree

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #191 on: Mon, 18 November 2013, 09:23:18 »
I don't have any color preference but then wouldn't mind a white in the spirit of an Apple keyboard.

Recently a GH member, sprit from Korea, took the Apple keyboard keys and made his own 60%. This brought back good nostalgic memories and if Matias 60% is the same, it would bd really great! I don't know if there's any copyright (with Apple) but I doubt it.
Show Image


Woah! That's really nice looking!

And that font is Really Unique.
« Last Edit: Mon, 18 November 2013, 10:11:23 by Air tree »

Offline frvrngn

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #192 on: Mon, 18 November 2013, 09:57:06 »
I don't have any color preference but then wouldn't mind a white in the spirit of an Apple keyboard.

Recently a GH member, sprit from Korea, took the Apple keyboard keys and made his own 60%. This brought back good nostalgic memories and if Matias 60% is the same, it would bd really great! I don't know if there's any copyright (with Apple) but I doubt it.
Show Image


Make this and I am 110% in!
Currently using: Cherry G80-1800 Ergo Clears, HHKB Pro 2, RF 87U Silent

Offline mashby

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #193 on: Mon, 18 November 2013, 10:16:29 »
Woah! What keyboard is that, The poker 2?

And that font is Really Unique.

It's actually a cut-down Apple keyboard, but I forget which one. I don't know if it actually works, but I think it's a GREAT look.

FWIW there are no 60% keyboards that have the Apple formatted key caps. So when the time comes, having the option to choose a Windows style, or a Mac style when unboxing the keyboard would be very, very awesome.

::: Windows Keys :::
   - Backspace
   - Enter
   - Windows
   - Alt

::: Mac Keys :::
   - Delete
   - Return
   - Command
   - Option

Just a thought.

Offline Linkbane

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #194 on: Mon, 18 November 2013, 11:14:07 »
I don't have any color preference but then wouldn't mind a white in the spirit of an Apple keyboard.

Recently a GH member, sprit from Korea, took the Apple keyboard keys and made his own 60%. This brought back good nostalgic memories and if Matias 60% is the same, it would bd really great! I don't know if there's any copyright (with Apple) but I doubt it.
Show Image


It looks good layout-wise, but a lot of the keys look rather misaligned, probably because of the cutting down, like the return, pipe, and left command, but also the 'N' and 'G' keys.
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Offline Matias

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #195 on: Mon, 18 November 2013, 11:28:48 »
I don't have any color preference but then wouldn't mind a white in the spirit of an Apple keyboard.

Recently a GH member, sprit from Korea, took the Apple keyboard keys and made his own 60%. This brought back good nostalgic memories and if Matias 60% is the same, it would bd really great! I don't know if there's any copyright (with Apple) but I doubt it.
Show Image



Actually, we do have the font artwork for that layout.  We used to use it.  I always liked it, but when Apple moved on from it, we were forced to as well.  Might be interesting to have it available again.  :)

« Last Edit: Mon, 18 November 2013, 11:32:18 by Matias »

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Matias 60% keyboard -- it's on!
« Reply #196 on: Mon, 18 November 2013, 11:30:00 »
Okay, just want to let everybody know that we're going ahead with this.   :cool:

It will be done as a Group Buy, with some different colour options for case and/or keycaps.  Let me know what you guys want on that front.

Time permitting, we'll start work on the case design next month, and will likely post the Interest Check in mid- to late January.

Wait wait, 60% Alps right Matias??

Offline Matias

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #197 on: Mon, 18 November 2013, 11:31:37 »
Woah! What keyboard is that, The poker 2?

And that font is Really Unique.

It's actually a cut-down Apple keyboard, but I forget which one. I don't know if it actually works, but I think it's a GREAT look.

FWIW there are no 60% keyboards that have the Apple formatted key caps. So when the time comes, having the option to choose a Windows style, or a Mac style when unboxing the keyboard would be very, very awesome.

::: Windows Keys :::
   - Backspace
   - Enter
   - Windows
   - Alt

::: Mac Keys :::
   - Delete
   - Return
   - Command
   - Option

Just a thought.


Is there any consensus for the default font on PC keyboards?


Offline jdcarpe

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #198 on: Mon, 18 November 2013, 11:31:44 »
Okay, just want to let everybody know that we're going ahead with this.   :cool:

It will be done as a Group Buy, with some different colour options for case and/or keycaps.  Let me know what you guys want on that front.

Time permitting, we'll start work on the case design next month, and will likely post the Interest Check in mid- to late January.

Wait wait, 60% Alps right Matias??

Yes, yes...60% Alps keyboard with keycaps! And Apple font! :D
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: 60% boards - what's the attraction?
« Reply #199 on: Mon, 18 November 2013, 11:33:24 »
Yes, yes...60% Alps keyboard with keycaps! And Apple font! :D

* CPTBadAss is so excited, he just can't hide it!!

SOMEONE POST A HAPPY DANCE GIF. I'M BAD AT GIFS