Author Topic: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions  (Read 644838 times)

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Offline mkkeyboardvigilante

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4650 on: Fri, 13 December 2019, 11:59:15 »
I get notifications about the replies that I get to posts in these threads, and I had no idea that one opinion would lead to that. Lol.

Here's another one now that I'm at it.

On Topre, I thought I'd like the heavier switches more, and I do for the most part, but in all my time that I've used any of my Topre boards, my go-to has always been the variable weight board I have even though I kept having thoughts about selling it over and over. 

I guess maybe it's also because I feel that heavier switches have their own place depending on what you feel like doing for that day. I'm more of a touch typist, but I am flexible with the keyboards I can use and keycaps as long as they are good quality PBT.

Somehow, I can still get a lot of tactility and not sacrifice typing speed and still comes in handy at night when I don't wanna wake everyone up in the apartment complex.

To be fair, on all the keyboards I have, I can type up to 105-110 WPM on my best days and on average 90-97 when I'm being more careful.
Current driver: HHKB Pro 2 (BKE Ultra Lights), Wooting One w/ Flaretech Red switches and HyperX PBT keycaps.

Other keyboards I own and like: Realforce 87U Variable Weight, Realforce 87U 55g, Niz Plum, Magicforce 108 Gateron Reds w/ O-Rings.

Other keyboards I have: Magicforce 68 Cherry MX Brown, Havit Low-Profile Kailh Blue, Logitech K740,
Yeah, it's a loooooooooooot of keyboards. :P

Offline mode

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4651 on: Fri, 13 December 2019, 18:04:38 »
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4652 on: Fri, 13 December 2019, 20:55:39 »
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
Alps were a huge letdown for me


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Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4653 on: Fri, 13 December 2019, 22:03:32 »
Depends which ones you've tried, and your previous experience with switches.

Offline rxc92

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4654 on: Sat, 14 December 2019, 00:48:38 »
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
 
 
From what I've heard, it's very hard to beat ALPS for clicky switches. Were you using clicky or linear? 

Quote from: DALExSNAIL link=topic=65341.msg2843902#msg2843902 date=1576292139
Alps were a huge letdown for me
[/quote
 

The most useful reply, posting the exact opposite of someone else's opinion.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4655 on: Sat, 14 December 2019, 00:57:09 »
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
 
 
From what I've heard, it's very hard to beat ALPS for clicky switches. Were you using clicky or linear? 

Alps were a huge letdown for me


The most useful reply, posting the exact opposite of someone else's opinion.

It's an opinion thread, so of course! I've used NoS creams and whites, and recently have tried Matias quiet clicks and their silent linears. Just not a fan of the sound, or the feel of any I've tried. They had a pretty big hype around them, so my expectations were high, hence the let down.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4656 on: Sat, 14 December 2019, 01:06:58 »
Depends which ones you've tried, and your previous experience with switches.

I've tried:
MX Silent reds
MX Reds
MX Browns
Vint blacks
Nixies
Vint Browns
MX Blues
MX Clears
Ergo clears
Most all gaterons at some point
Zealios, gen/run 2 and like 4 I think?
MX greens
Newest iterations of MX blacks that had the retooling
Buckling spring
Topre Variable/45g/55g
Obviously rubber domes

Alps I've had:
NoS whites
NoS Creams
Matias Quiet Clicks
Matias Linears

Not claiming they are bad, because they aren't, but alps heads talk about ALPS like they're the second coming of jesus, so the letdown happened.

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4657 on: Sat, 14 December 2019, 02:13:23 »
There's not much point in alps unless they're complicated pine alps, not bamboo or simplified, and they're in good condition.

I have some pine boards and a matias, they're ok, but they have flaws compared to my filco, I can understand why you'd prefer the filco for those. Just not my better condition pine alps boards.


From what I've heard, it's very hard to beat ALPS for clicky switches. Were you using clicky or linear? 

I have SKCM orange, salmon and blue boards and my preference is in that order. I'm not interested in linear switches.
« Last Edit: Sat, 14 December 2019, 02:15:00 by mode »

Offline rxc92

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4658 on: Sat, 14 December 2019, 03:26:18 »
I have SKCM orange, salmon and blue boards and my preference is in that order. I'm not interested in linear switches.
   

Didn't ask what you were interested in, I asked what you were using. Good to know though.

Offline mode

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4659 on: Sat, 14 December 2019, 04:07:23 »
I have SKCM orange, salmon and blue boards and my preference is in that order. I'm not interested in linear switches.
   

Didn't ask what you were interested in, I asked what you were using. Good to know though.

This is a forum, people say things that they're not explicitly asked. Can we lose the attitude?

Offline fxm.eee

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4660 on: Sat, 14 December 2019, 04:55:06 »
I don't like RGB for gaming Keebs.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4661 on: Sat, 14 December 2019, 08:44:14 »
I have SKCM orange, salmon and blue boards and my preference is in that order. I'm not interested in linear switches.
   

Didn't ask what you were interested in, I asked what you were using. Good to know though.

This is a forum, people say things that they're not explicitly asked. Can we lose the attitude?

Have you read any of his other posts?

Offline Sintpinty

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4662 on: Sun, 15 December 2019, 07:53:38 »
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
Alps were a huge letdown for me


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linears are just.. bad. I prefer MX Browns over reds

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4663 on: Mon, 16 December 2019, 13:49:47 »

So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
Alps were a huge letdown for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

linears are just.. bad. I prefer MX Browns over reds

If they were lubed browns, maybe. I hate how scratchy they are, and I hate the weighting even more. You can't even put your fingers on it before they actuate. Also, they hurt my fingers with the harshness of the bottom out. I guess this is a popular opinion, though :)

My unpopular opinion: Heavy tactile > medium tactile. Sure, they tire out your hands, but ARE THOSE THINGS TACTILE or WHAT????  :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4664 on: Mon, 16 December 2019, 15:05:13 »
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
Alps were a huge letdown for me


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linears are just.. not my thing. I prefer MX Browns over reds

ftfy :)

Offline mode

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4665 on: Sat, 04 January 2020, 11:55:27 »
I don't care about stabiliser rattle.

I only recently tried lubing my costar stabs, can't say I could be bothered to do it again.

Offline Rob27shred

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4666 on: Sat, 04 January 2020, 14:35:33 »
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
Alps were a huge letdown for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

linears are just.. not my thing. I prefer MX Browns over reds

ftfy :)

LOL, so true though. Sintpinty will learn with time like we all did. I was of the same opinion that linears were just boring & not for me for the longest time until recently I gave them another shot & am really liking them now. Tastes change over time & everybodies preferences will be different.

Offline mkkeyboardvigilante

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4667 on: Sat, 04 January 2020, 15:07:36 »
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
Alps were a huge letdown for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

linears are just.. not my thing. I prefer MX Browns over reds

ftfy :)

LOL, so true though. Sintpinty will learn with time like we all did. I was of the same opinion that linears were just boring & not for me for the longest time until recently I gave them another shot & am really liking them now. Tastes change over time & everybodies preferences will be different.
Very interesting that you're saying this because that has been a similar experience I've had. Sometimes, I sort of regret not getting one of those clickier, more tactile boards, and then other days, I come to really appreciate linears more and more despite how I feel sometimes I still tend to make more typos here and there on them. It just depends on what I'm in the mood to type on and stuff, but I really do like that sort of sound that comes out of many of the linear switches out there combined with the right kinds of keycaps. It's a dream to type on then.
Current driver: HHKB Pro 2 (BKE Ultra Lights), Wooting One w/ Flaretech Red switches and HyperX PBT keycaps.

Other keyboards I own and like: Realforce 87U Variable Weight, Realforce 87U 55g, Niz Plum, Magicforce 108 Gateron Reds w/ O-Rings.

Other keyboards I have: Magicforce 68 Cherry MX Brown, Havit Low-Profile Kailh Blue, Logitech K740,
Yeah, it's a loooooooooooot of keyboards. :P

Offline Sintpinty

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4668 on: Sat, 04 January 2020, 20:02:47 »
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
Alps were a huge letdown for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

linears are just.. not my thing. I prefer MX Browns over reds

ftfy :)

LOL, so true though. Sintpinty will learn with time like we all did. I was of the same opinion that linears were just boring & not for me for the longest time until recently I gave them another shot & am really liking them now. Tastes change over time & everybodies preferences will be different.

Will hate linears

Offline jacethesaltsculptor

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4669 on: Sat, 04 January 2020, 20:12:43 »
Truthfully my tastes have commonalities, but who knows, perhaps in time I'll find a linear switch I'll like, though that certainly hasn't happened yet.

Tactility with no click also still gets no clicks from me.

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Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4670 on: Sun, 05 January 2020, 02:47:59 »
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
Alps were a huge letdown for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

linears are just.. not my thing. I prefer MX Browns over reds

ftfy :)

LOL, so true though. Sintpinty will learn with time like we all did. I was of the same opinion that linears were just boring & not for me for the longest time until recently I gave them another shot & am really liking them now. Tastes change over time & everybodies preferences will be different.

Will hate linears

What did he mean by this :thinking: :spink:

Offline Sintpinty

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4671 on: Mon, 06 January 2020, 06:07:17 »
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
Alps were a huge letdown for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

linears are just.. not my thing. I prefer MX Browns over reds

ftfy :)

LOL, so true though. Sintpinty will learn with time like we all did. I was of the same opinion that linears were just boring & not for me for the longest time until recently I gave them another shot & am really liking them now. Tastes change over time & everybodies preferences will be different.

Will hate linears

What did he mean by this :thinking: :spink:

I will always hate linears 🤷🏻‍♀️

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4672 on: Mon, 06 January 2020, 06:07:57 »
So what's supposedly so good about Filcos?

I have no idea, I had a filco, then I tried an ALPS board, now the filco is dead to me.
Alps were a huge letdown for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

linears are just.. not my thing. I prefer MX Browns over reds

ftfy :)

LOL, so true though. Sintpinty will learn with time like we all did. I was of the same opinion that linears were just boring & not for me for the longest time until recently I gave them another shot & am really liking them now. Tastes change over time & everybodies preferences will be different.

Will hate linears

What did he mean by this :thinking: :spink:

I will always hate linears
Can't see the future, lad.


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Offline snozberries

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4673 on: Mon, 06 January 2020, 09:20:03 »
I hate dislike the layout on HHKB. Love how they type, but man...could not do it.
« Last Edit: Mon, 06 January 2020, 09:59:54 by snozberries »

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4674 on: Mon, 06 January 2020, 09:21:17 »
I hate the layout on HHKB. Love how they type, but man...could not do it.

How much time have you spent with it?

Offline snozberries

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4675 on: Mon, 06 January 2020, 09:50:16 »
I hate the layout on HHKB. Love how they type, but man...could not do it.

How much time have you spent with it?

Hate was probably a bit strong...but I gave it a chance for a couple months. I'm sure I could learn to love it, but I want to go back to a FC660C. Need to post more so I can get in the classifieds.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4676 on: Mon, 06 January 2020, 11:48:29 »
I hate the layout on HHKB. Love how they type, but man...could not do it.

How much time have you spent with it?

Hate was probably a bit strong...but I gave it a chance for a couple months. I'm sure I could learn to love it, but I want to go back to a FC660C. Need to post more so I can get in the classifieds.

I mean that's fair. It's a polarizing layout, just wanted to check if it was a week or something haha.

Offline mkkeyboardvigilante

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4677 on: Mon, 06 January 2020, 17:29:15 »
Yeah it took me a while to get used to it, but once I really got the hang of using the Fn key, especially on OS X, it seemed more intuitive there for me.
Current driver: HHKB Pro 2 (BKE Ultra Lights), Wooting One w/ Flaretech Red switches and HyperX PBT keycaps.

Other keyboards I own and like: Realforce 87U Variable Weight, Realforce 87U 55g, Niz Plum, Magicforce 108 Gateron Reds w/ O-Rings.

Other keyboards I have: Magicforce 68 Cherry MX Brown, Havit Low-Profile Kailh Blue, Logitech K740,
Yeah, it's a loooooooooooot of keyboards. :P

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4678 on: Mon, 06 January 2020, 19:24:01 »
Yeah it took me a while to get used to it, but once I really got the hang of using the Fn key, especially on OS X, it seemed more intuitive there for me.

The Fn placement on HHKB is brilliant imho. It was almost second nature for my pinky before I even got used to the layout.

Offline yicaoyimu

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4679 on: Mon, 06 January 2020, 19:27:39 »
Cherry switches are actually pretty good. It's reasonably priced and doesn't have any quality issues (at least I haven't heard any). What other good linear options are there other than vintage black? Gateron inks have loose leaf. Gateron don't fit 7035 mill-max socket unless you rotate the socket to a specific angle. Good Geteron linears are all too expensive. Cherry is still a good choice for high end build.
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Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4680 on: Mon, 06 January 2020, 19:32:41 »
Cherry switches are actually pretty good. It's reasonably priced and doesn't have any quality issues (at least I haven't heard any). What other good linear options are there other than vintage black? Gateron inks have loose leaf. Gateron don't fit 7035 mill-max socket unless you rotate the socket to a specific angle. Good Geteron linears are all too expensive. Cherry is still a good choice for high end build.

OG Gateron stems in old stock cherry housing a have had the best results for me sound and feel wise for linear. Those old milky gats that needed films to secure the top the right way.

Can still find those a good bit cheaper than new cherry.

Although, camping ebay for a decent condition 1800 board with hella shiny caps, and super worn in stems is more fun.


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Offline actualglacier

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4681 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 03:36:28 »
oh boy I've got some spicy ones today.

- Most people who bash MX browns are newbies who buy into the trend that more tactile = better.

- Alps tactiles are alright at best. They are, for the most part, fatiguing and incredibly overrated, and there's nothing wrong with the way MX based switches generate tactility.
« Last Edit: Tue, 07 January 2020, 03:48:42 by notglacier »
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Offline vegs

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4682 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 03:40:23 »
- Most people who bash MX browns are newbies who buy into the trend that more tactile = better.
Only good switches are $5/ea frankenswitches /s

100% agree, people bash browns because they are videly available, cheap switches - and a lot of "newbies" have these in their beginner boards. Still a great switch.
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Offline chyros

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4683 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 06:56:32 »
oh boy I've got some spicy ones today.

- Most people who bash MX browns are newbies who buy into the trend that more tactile = better.
I'd say the exact opposite :p . The only people who like MX browns are newbies who haven't tried anything better :p .
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Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4684 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 10:36:51 »
oh boy I've got some spicy ones today.

- Most people who bash MX browns are newbies who buy into the trend that more tactile = better.
I'd say the exact opposite :p . The only people who like MX browns are newbies who haven't tried anything better :p .

I'm definitely with Chyros on that one. I have been using mechanicals for years. I can't say that I have tried a ton of switch types, but I haven't encountered anything as bad as Cherry MX Brown (yet, I know they exist). It is difficult to discern any bump at all, and most of that bump is just increased scratchiness. My tactile alps experience is limited to a few test presses on an old recycling save board or two, and the experience was incomparably better. Tactile Kailh Box switches don't seem fantastic, but at least they're not scratchy, and there's definitely a discernible bump. I'm far from a tactile lover though.

I wonder if those who don't like clicky alps had really, really dirty boards. I replaced my model F AT at work with a Leading Edge DC-2014 once I tried the switches.

Cherry switches are actually pretty good. It's reasonably priced and doesn't have any quality issues (at least I haven't heard any). What other good linear options are there other than vintage black? Gateron inks have loose leaf. Gateron don't fit 7035 mill-max socket unless you rotate the socket to a specific angle. Good Geteron linears are all too expensive. Cherry is still a good choice for high end build.

I haven't put them in a board, but the Kailh Box linears seem pretty nice to me. I hear good things about Kailh Cream as well. Cherry MX Red is good enough for me, for gaming purposes.

My unpopular opinions:

"Vintage" Cherry MX is no better (in aggregate) than any other Cherry MX, other than maybe just the fact that they're more likely to basically be polished by years of heavy use. Maybe I'll be swayed on this some day, but I find it unlikely.

Cherry MX, in general, is the Honda Civic/Toyota Camry of mechanical keyboards today. They're not fantastic, but they're in no way substandard in any categories other than subjective feel/sound preference (that even goes for browns).

(This one might start a lynch mob) The IBM Model M is an inherently stupid and fragile design (plastic rivets) that doesn't seem to feel much better to me than average, at its best, and worse than Cherry MX at its worst. Before you come to burn down my house, I absolutely love the model F.

Windows keys (when running Windows) are almost indispensable when it comes to convenience and time savings, and buttons that disable them when gaming are completely unnecessary. I've never accidentally hit the Windows key before.

Corsair (at least the K65 and K70 variant boards) makes robust, aesthetically-pleasing keyboards, in spite of their non-standard key caps (And maybe some batches of poorly made caps? All of mine have held up for years worth of heavy use.)

There may be more. I can't think of them at the moment.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4685 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 10:52:58 »
IMO the distaste from MX Browns is more due to an expectation that doesn't fit the switch. It isn't meant to be very tactile, it's meant to be barely noticeable really. When you have good typing posture and are a light typist, anything too overly tactile become fatiguing. Over the years I've learned to type faster and improve my form, and as that has changed I've started to type lighter and lighter. Well worn in browns, or tuned/lubed browns have become a great middle ground for me, because I prefer tactile, but topre and clears are fatiguing for my fingers now.

It makes sense that Chyros would dislike them, as he's a fairly heavy handed typist, with a unique form. This falls in line with his preference towards alps as well, since for the most part alps, in my experience, are much stiffer switches than cherry.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4686 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 11:07:02 »
I'm using some box navies for typing at home, but I still don't mind using even Cherry MX Red. Browns just feel terrible to me, and aren't tactile enough to be worth being tactile at all in light of this. I certainly haven't tried lubed ones though.

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4687 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 11:34:52 »
I'm using some box navies for typing at home, but I still don't mind using even Cherry MX Red. Browns just feel terrible to me, and aren't tactile enough to be worth being tactile at all in light of this. I certainly haven't tried lubed ones though.

Again, they're only really meant to be barely noticeably tactile, since they were originally designed as an "ergo" option.  Lubing them or just wearing them in for a few months makes them much nicer to use though.

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4688 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 11:54:51 »
IMO the distaste from MX Browns is more due to an expectation that doesn't fit the switch. It isn't meant to be very tactile, it's meant to be barely noticeable really. When you have good typing posture and are a light typist, anything too overly tactile become fatiguing. Over the years I've learned to type faster and improve my form, and as that has changed I've started to type lighter and lighter. Well worn in browns, or tuned/lubed browns have become a great middle ground for me, because I prefer tactile, but topre and clears are fatiguing for my fingers now.

It makes sense that Chyros would dislike them, as he's a fairly heavy handed typist, with a unique form. This falls in line with his preference towards alps as well, since for the most part alps, in my experience, are much stiffer switches than cherry.

Bad condition alps feel stiffer than cherry, good oranges and blues feel mid way between browns and clears and are utterly non-fatiguing to type on. Iíve typed for 8+ hours a day on salmon alps for quite some time and Iím in no way a heavy handed typist.

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4689 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 11:57:39 »
Layout standards are a Good Thing. Alternate layouts are an unnecessary blight on the custom keycap landscape.

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4690 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 12:04:51 »
IMO the distaste from MX Browns is more due to an expectation that doesn't fit the switch. It isn't meant to be very tactile, it's meant to be barely noticeable really. When you have good typing posture and are a light typist, anything too overly tactile become fatiguing. Over the years I've learned to type faster and improve my form, and as that has changed I've started to type lighter and lighter. Well worn in browns, or tuned/lubed browns have become a great middle ground for me, because I prefer tactile, but topre and clears are fatiguing for my fingers now.

It makes sense that Chyros would dislike them, as he's a fairly heavy handed typist, with a unique form. This falls in line with his preference towards alps as well, since for the most part alps, in my experience, are much stiffer switches than cherry.

Bad condition alps feel stiffer than cherry, good oranges and blues feel mid way between browns and clears and are utterly non-fatiguing to type on. Iíve typed for 8+ hours a day on salmon alps for quite some time and Iím in no way a heavy handed typist.

I agree with this entirely. Blue alps feel much lighter than your average heavy switch.

I understand all of that, I just know that there are other minimally tactile switches available that aren't scratchy from the factory. You do you though, it is all subjective. I'm a clicky guy.

I also agree with sticking to keyboard layouts. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. In the 80s, yes, not anymore.

I wouldn't mind maybe trying to use browns until they wear in if that would actually make them feel better. I got a used Rosewill board with them for very, very cheap mostly just to be able to try the switch type. I think most of the caps are shiny from wear, so you would think that would mean that they're worn in, but maybe not.

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4691 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 12:05:16 »
IMO the distaste from MX Browns is more due to an expectation that doesn't fit the switch. It isn't meant to be very tactile, it's meant to be barely noticeable really. When you have good typing posture and are a light typist, anything too overly tactile become fatiguing. Over the years I've learned to type faster and improve my form, and as that has changed I've started to type lighter and lighter. Well worn in browns, or tuned/lubed browns have become a great middle ground for me, because I prefer tactile, but topre and clears are fatiguing for my fingers now.

It makes sense that Chyros would dislike them, as he's a fairly heavy handed typist, with a unique form. This falls in line with his preference towards alps as well, since for the most part alps, in my experience, are much stiffer switches than cherry.

Bad condition alps feel stiffer than cherry, good oranges and blues feel mid way between browns and clears and are utterly non-fatiguing to type on. Iíve typed for 8+ hours a day on salmon alps for quite some time and Iím in no way a heavy handed typist.

I agree with this entirely. Blue alps feel much lighter than your average heavy switch.

I understand all of that, I just know that there are other minimally tactile switches available that aren't scratchy from the factory. You do you though, it is all subjective. I'm a clicky guy.

I also agree with sticking to keyboard layouts. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. In the 80s, yes, not anymore.

I wouldn't mind maybe trying to use browns until they wear in if that would actually make them feel better. I got a used Rosewill board with them for very, very cheap mostly just to be able to try the switch type. I think most of the caps are shiny from wear, so you would think that would mean that they're worn in, but maybe not.

If alps feel more lighter than a heavy switch thats really cool! i might try that out

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4692 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 12:10:17 »
I'm using some box navies for typing at home, but I still don't mind using even Cherry MX Red. Browns just feel terrible to me, and aren't tactile enough to be worth being tactile at all in light of this. I certainly haven't tried lubed ones though.

Again, they're only really meant to be barely noticeably tactile, since they were originally designed as an "ergo" option.  Lubing them or just wearing them in for a few months makes them much nicer to use though.

Exactly this. A lot of people seem to miss the point of MX browns. They aren't meant to be the most tactile thing in the world nor the smoothest (blame cherry molds for that), but properly tuned/lubed they're some of the nicest switch for typists with good form.

I understanding disliking MX browns if you've tried all the popular switches plus their tuned/lubed counterparts, at that point it's just personal preference. It is, however, a bit sad to see people bash brown switches just because they're readily available and not as tactile as some other existing switches (and somehow, making them bad? lol).
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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4693 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 12:38:46 »
I'm using some box navies for typing at home, but I still don't mind using even Cherry MX Red. Browns just feel terrible to me, and aren't tactile enough to be worth being tactile at all in light of this. I certainly haven't tried lubed ones though.

Again, they're only really meant to be barely noticeably tactile, since they were originally designed as an "ergo" option.  Lubing them or just wearing them in for a few months makes them much nicer to use though.

Exactly this. A lot of people seem to miss the point of MX browns. They aren't meant to be the most tactile thing in the world nor the smoothest (blame cherry molds for that), but properly tuned/lubed they're some of the nicest switch for typists with good form.

I understanding disliking MX browns if you've tried all the popular switches plus their tuned/lubed counterparts, at that point it's just personal preference. It is, however, a bit sad to see people bash brown switches just because they're readily available and not as tactile as some other existing switches (and somehow, making them bad? lol).
I genuinely know linear switches that are more tactile than MX Brown.
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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4694 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 12:41:29 »
IMO the distaste from MX Browns is more due to an expectation that doesn't fit the switch. It isn't meant to be very tactile, it's meant to be barely noticeable really. When you have good typing posture and are a light typist, anything too overly tactile become fatiguing. Over the years I've learned to type faster and improve my form, and as that has changed I've started to type lighter and lighter. Well worn in browns, or tuned/lubed browns have become a great middle ground for me, because I prefer tactile, but topre and clears are fatiguing for my fingers now.

It makes sense that Chyros would dislike them, as he's a fairly heavy handed typist, with a unique form. This falls in line with his preference towards alps as well, since for the most part alps, in my experience, are much stiffer switches than cherry.

Bad condition alps feel stiffer than cherry, good oranges and blues feel mid way between browns and clears and are utterly non-fatiguing to type on. Iíve typed for 8+ hours a day on salmon alps for quite some time and Iím in no way a heavy handed typist.

I've tried NOS alps (sealed in original packaging board with whites) as well as very clean used alps in the past, all very stiff for me personally. Maybe if I somehow won the lottery necessary to be graced with an alps switch that was acceptable to "the enlightened" here I'd like them. I understand that Matias isn't super well regarded in the alps world, but even their "super light" linears feel stiffer than reds, which are what I assume to be the MX comparison.

How fatiguing a switch is, is very dependent on the user though. The design of alps tactile switches is inherently fatiguing for someone like me, in a very similar way that rubberdomes/topre are.
« Last Edit: Tue, 07 January 2020, 12:47:14 by DALExSNAIL »

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4695 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 12:43:20 »
I'm using some box navies for typing at home, but I still don't mind using even Cherry MX Red. Browns just feel terrible to me, and aren't tactile enough to be worth being tactile at all in light of this. I certainly haven't tried lubed ones though.

Again, they're only really meant to be barely noticeably tactile, since they were originally designed as an "ergo" option.  Lubing them or just wearing them in for a few months makes them much nicer to use though.

Exactly this. A lot of people seem to miss the point of MX browns. They aren't meant to be the most tactile thing in the world nor the smoothest (blame cherry molds for that), but properly tuned/lubed they're some of the nicest switch for typists with good form.

I understanding disliking MX browns if you've tried all the popular switches plus their tuned/lubed counterparts, at that point it's just personal preference. It is, however, a bit sad to see people bash brown switches just because they're readily available and not as tactile as some other existing switches (and somehow, making them bad? lol).
I genuinely know linear switches that are more tactile than MX Brown.

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4696 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 12:45:22 »
IMO the distaste from MX Browns is more due to an expectation that doesn't fit the switch. It isn't meant to be very tactile, it's meant to be barely noticeable really. When you have good typing posture and are a light typist, anything too overly tactile become fatiguing. Over the years I've learned to type faster and improve my form, and as that has changed I've started to type lighter and lighter. Well worn in browns, or tuned/lubed browns have become a great middle ground for me, because I prefer tactile, but topre and clears are fatiguing for my fingers now.

It makes sense that Chyros would dislike them, as he's a fairly heavy handed typist, with a unique form. This falls in line with his preference towards alps as well, since for the most part alps, in my experience, are much stiffer switches than cherry.

Bad condition alps feel stiffer than cherry, good oranges and blues feel mid way between browns and clears and are utterly non-fatiguing to type on. Iíve typed for 8+ hours a day on salmon alps for quite some time and Iím in no way a heavy handed typist.

I agree with this entirely. Blue alps feel much lighter than your average heavy switch.

I understand all of that, I just know that there are other minimally tactile switches available that aren't scratchy from the factory. You do you though, it is all subjective. I'm a clicky guy.

I also agree with sticking to keyboard layouts. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. In the 80s, yes, not anymore.

I wouldn't mind maybe trying to use browns until they wear in if that would actually make them feel better. I got a used Rosewill board with them for very, very cheap mostly just to be able to try the switch type. I think most of the caps are shiny from wear, so you would think that would mean that they're worn in, but maybe not.

If alps feel more lighter than a heavy switch thats really cool! i might try that out

I would definitely recommend that you do. Alps switches are very susceptible to dirt/dust though, so not all of these ancient boards feel as they should.

IMO the distaste from MX Browns is more due to an expectation that doesn't fit the switch. It isn't meant to be very tactile, it's meant to be barely noticeable really. When you have good typing posture and are a light typist, anything too overly tactile become fatiguing. Over the years I've learned to type faster and improve my form, and as that has changed I've started to type lighter and lighter. Well worn in browns, or tuned/lubed browns have become a great middle ground for me, because I prefer tactile, but topre and clears are fatiguing for my fingers now.

It makes sense that Chyros would dislike them, as he's a fairly heavy handed typist, with a unique form. This falls in line with his preference towards alps as well, since for the most part alps, in my experience, are much stiffer switches than cherry.

Bad condition alps feel stiffer than cherry, good oranges and blues feel mid way between browns and clears and are utterly non-fatiguing to type on. Iíve typed for 8+ hours a day on salmon alps for quite some time and Iím in no way a heavy handed typist.

I agree with this entirely. Blue alps feel much lighter than your average heavy switch.

I understand all of that, I just know that there are other minimally tactile switches available that aren't scratchy from the factory. You do you though, it is all subjective. I'm a clicky guy.

I also agree with sticking to keyboard layouts. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. In the 80s, yes, not anymore.

I wouldn't mind maybe trying to use browns until they wear in if that would actually make them feel better. I got a used Rosewill board with them for very, very cheap mostly just to be able to try the switch type. I think most of the caps are shiny from wear, so you would think that would mean that they're worn in, but maybe not.

If alps feel more lighter than a heavy switch thats really cool! i might try that out

It appears that you're not really reading the comments of those that dislike MX Browns. It isn't just an issue of tactility, it is the combination of that tactility being minuscule and also extremely scratchy, to the point that the tactility seems to be limited to just an increase in scratchiness as the key descends. When typing at a normal speed, the scratchiness is literally all I feel, no bump at all. There are very lightly tactile switches available that are very smooth by comparison. Maybe they're not terrible with lube, but I personally wouldn't ever really advocate for a switch that requires modification when new from the factory. I would certainly be curious to see how they felt though. I doubt I'll ever bother to open mine to find out, but maybe.

IMO the distaste from MX Browns is more due to an expectation that doesn't fit the switch. It isn't meant to be very tactile, it's meant to be barely noticeable really. When you have good typing posture and are a light typist, anything too overly tactile become fatiguing. Over the years I've learned to type faster and improve my form, and as that has changed I've started to type lighter and lighter. Well worn in browns, or tuned/lubed browns have become a great middle ground for me, because I prefer tactile, but topre and clears are fatiguing for my fingers now.

It makes sense that Chyros would dislike them, as he's a fairly heavy handed typist, with a unique form. This falls in line with his preference towards alps as well, since for the most part alps, in my experience, are much stiffer switches than cherry.

Bad condition alps feel stiffer than cherry, good oranges and blues feel mid way between browns and clears and are utterly non-fatiguing to type on. Iíve typed for 8+ hours a day on salmon alps for quite some time and Iím in no way a heavy handed typist.

I've tried NOS alps (sealed in original packaging board with whites) as well as very clean used alps in the past, all very stiff for me personally. Maybe if I somehow won the lottery necessary to be graced with an alps switch that was acceptable to "the enlightened" here I'd like them. I understand that Matias isn't super well regarded in the alps world, but even their "super light" linears feel stiffer than reds, which are what I assume to be the MX comparison.

How fatiguing a switch is, is very dependent on the user though. The design of alps tactile switches is inherently fatiguing for someone like me, in a very similar way that rubberdomes/topre are.


Blue alps seemed stiff to me at first as well (I was using mostly Cherry Blue and Capacitive BS at the time), but also fantastic.  I wouldn't even put their tactility as their greatest feature, more so how rounded that tactility is instead of sharp, and the almost imperceptible upstroke. It all feels more refined than anything else I have ever tried. Box navies seem more tactile to me, yet blue alps and capacitive BS feel better overall.

I think you just need to use some heavy switches a few days to become more accustomed to something heavier, if you really wanted to. Cherry MX Red feels almost like there's no spring at all to me now.
« Last Edit: Tue, 07 January 2020, 12:54:50 by Maledicted »

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4697 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 12:57:29 »
But I personally wouldn't ever really advocate for a switch that requires modification when new from the factory.

That's all well and good, but the majority of people in this hobby mod their switches, no matter how nice they are stock.

Browns don't need to be modded, they need to be used for a few months to break in because of bad tooling. Old browns are better because they were produced when the tooling was new, but the switch was not produced outside of specialty boards and random compaqs during that time, so they're hard to find. Vint blacks are talked about and praised a lot because they're everywhere. But if browns were more readily available when the tooling was new, I'm almost positive they would be thought of in the same "They're scratchy now, but the vints feel great" way.

I'm not sure if the tooling for browns was updated with their linears that recently got updated, but I imagine not. Someone feel free to clue me in if they were though.

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4698 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 13:03:11 »
I think you just need to use some heavy switches a few days to become more accustomed to something heavier, if you really wanted to. Cherry MX Red feels almost like there's no spring at all to me now.

I only used 72g or 78g when I first joined the hobby. I've used heavy weighted switches for extended periods of time, but as I've improved my typing, I've preferred lighter switches. Not to mention my fingers and wrists are on the verge of RSI. I've had to swap to more ergonomic options recently in my boards.

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4699 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 13:10:11 »
But I personally wouldn't ever really advocate for a switch that requires modification when new from the factory.

That's all well and good, but the majority of people in this hobby mod their switches, no matter how nice they are stock.

Browns don't need to be modded, they need to be used for a few months to break in because of bad tooling. Old browns are better because they were produced when the tooling was new, but the switch was not produced outside of specialty boards and random compaqs during that time, so they're hard to find. Vint blacks are talked about and praised a lot because they're everywhere. But if browns were more readily available when the tooling was new, I'm almost positive they would be thought of in the same "They're scratchy now, but the vints feel great" way.

I'm not sure if the tooling for browns was updated with their linears that recently got updated, but I imagine not. Someone feel free to clue me in if they were though.

I also wouldn't, personally, advocate for switches that require breaking in when new from the factory. Modding for a very specific feel you can't get otherwise, of course, makes perfect sense to me. I've repeatedly thought about modified clickbars and spring weights to make Box Jades or Navies more of an intermediate weight, with much less of a tactile upstroke (more similar to alps), though I haven't tried anything yet. I don't have a massive sample size, but Cherry MX feels like Cherry MX to me, old or new. They've apparently been retooled many times since the "Vintage black" days.

You do what you have to do, man. I'm just making the point that there are very good reasons that most people do not like Cherry MX Brown. Nobody is wrong for liking them. Have you tried any of the Kailh Box tactiles?