Author Topic: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions  (Read 521690 times)

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Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4550 on: Fri, 08 November 2019, 08:11:02 »
Speaking of wobble...

I do not care about wobble, it's not a metric I give two ****s about as long as keys don't bind.

Speaking of wobble...

I do not care about wobble, it's not a metric I give two ****s about as long as keys don't bind.

Thank you!  Of all the things to be anal about wobble doesn't even need consideration...

The reason to care about wobble is mostly sound related, and it also gives a certain "less premium" feeling to any board if you are a lighter typist. I understand the feeling you guys have if you aren't sensitive to that sort of thing though, it's one of the lower tier concerns on stock keyboards.
« Last Edit: Fri, 08 November 2019, 08:14:34 by DALExSNAIL »

Offline Straw

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4551 on: Fri, 08 November 2019, 08:22:56 »
Wobble makes the board feel less solidly made for sure.
Like it came out of a candy machine.
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Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4552 on: Fri, 08 November 2019, 08:29:46 »
Wobble makes the board feel less solidly made for sure.
Like it came out of a candy machine.

Plus it makes more rattle noise, and makes the board sound like white noise.

Offline Gampela

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4553 on: Sat, 09 November 2019, 10:16:09 »
EnjoyPBT's (and I guess this goes for GMK and many other makers too) alpha legends are a bit too large/bold, which make the keycaps look a bit comical. Also, to my eye SA, XDA, DSA or whatever set that center their legends look kinda "childish" for lack of a better word. I think Leopold really nails the legend aesthetics the best.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4554 on: Sun, 10 November 2019, 21:23:35 »
Gampela, I'm not sure your opinion is entirely unpopular. ePBT is known for printing their legends a little bold and comical (although 9009 R4 is getting closer to GMK). Saying that GMK is also too bold and near-comical is unpopular, but I agree with you. [I am typing this on GMK].

You're right about Leopold. Their doubleshots are very professional-looking, and most people agree. There's a reason their caps are called "God tier."

I also enjoy Varmilo, although the italics are somewhat controversial. My favourite keycaps - Leopold, Varmilo, and DCS, all have less-bolded legends. WYSE DCS was the nicest, in my view.

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4555 on: Sun, 10 November 2019, 23:49:06 »
I also enjoy Varmilo, although the italics are somewhat controversial. My favourite keycaps - Leopold, Varmilo, and DCS, all have less-bolded legends. WYSE DCS was the nicest, in my view.

Yup, I hope some day SP does a premium version of DCS, 1.5mm thick. I prefer the look of it to GMK.

Offline trombompoline

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4556 on: Mon, 11 November 2019, 04:13:37 »
Any clicky switch lighter than gateron green is unusable.

Typing on anything other than standard QWERTY is retarded unless you literally only use your computer. Even then alternate layouts aren't supported by anything.
« Last Edit: Mon, 11 November 2019, 04:19:15 by trombompoline »

Offline Gampela

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4557 on: Mon, 11 November 2019, 04:27:19 »
Gampela, I'm not sure your opinion is entirely unpopular. ePBT is known for printing their legends a little bold and comical (although 9009 R4 is getting closer to GMK). Saying that GMK is also too bold and near-comical is unpopular, but I agree with you. [I am typing this on GMK].

I have to admit I don't actually own any GMK sets and my previous inclusion of GMK was based entirely on falsely thinking that ePBT 1:1 copied their legend design from old Cherry/GMK sets. This is good to know. I guess the problem isn't too big since I didn't notice these differences from pictures. I just know I much prefer Leopold pd to ePBT (9009, R2 I think) when I compare them close by.

You're right about Leopold. Their doubleshots are very professional-looking, and most people agree. There's a reason their caps are called "God tier."

I also enjoy Varmilo, although the italics are somewhat controversial. My favourite keycaps - Leopold, Varmilo, and DCS, all have less-bolded legends. WYSE DCS was the nicest, in my view.

I've praised Leopold's makings here so many times I wonder if people start thinking I'm a paid shill. I just really like what they have got going on. I guess it's too much to ask for them to start selling separate kits with wide compatibility. Varmilo does have pretty nice variety of keycaps but I don't think I can go back to oem after getting used to sleeker profiles. Leopold's ss2 profile actually sits noticeably lower than cherry which is another thing I quite like.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4558 on: Mon, 11 November 2019, 14:43:19 »
Oh, your assumption is right. As far as I can tell, ePBT is largely trying to mimic classic GMK. However, its dye-sub process was always 'runnier' or blurrier than GMK. It is closing in on GMK in legend sharpness, however. But there are other issues with their keycaps.

I actually like the feel of ePBT more than GMK, no matter if it is on MX Browns or Zealios. ePBT 9009 was using some very smooth-surfaced blanks that were still grippy. But the keycaps themselves were less consistent than GMK - some of them had flaring at the bottom, for example.

If you put an ePBT set on a big board, you can usually see the difference from GMK, which is more orderly and regimented. GMK is known for a higher degree of consistency in the keycap shape, and they don't warp or get tilted off-centre easily. If only the legends were a nicer font, like Gorton Modified.

I find the colouration of most Leopold keycap sets to be a bit dull, but that's understandable as they have to use PBT. The legends are amazing, though. Really set a standard for the industry. And the profile is truly something special. I wonder if the rumoured "Gateron profile" will beat it.

Offline Gampela

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4559 on: Mon, 11 November 2019, 15:34:03 »
Oh, your assumption is right. As far as I can tell, ePBT is largely trying to mimic classic GMK. However, its dye-sub process was always 'runnier' or blurrier than GMK. It is closing in on GMK in legend sharpness, however. But there are other issues with their keycaps.

I actually like the feel of ePBT more than GMK, no matter if it is on MX Browns or Zealios. ePBT 9009 was using some very smooth-surfaced blanks that were still grippy. But the keycaps themselves were less consistent than GMK - some of them had flaring at the bottom, for example.

If you put an ePBT set on a big board, you can usually see the difference from GMK, which is more orderly and regimented. GMK is known for a higher degree of consistency in the keycap shape, and they don't warp or get tilted off-centre easily. If only the legends were a nicer font, like Gorton Modified.

I find the colouration of most Leopold keycap sets to be a bit dull, but that's understandable as they have to use PBT. The legends are amazing, though. Really set a standard for the industry. And the profile is truly something special. I wonder if the rumoured "Gateron profile" will beat it.

There are definitely some inconsistencies on my ePBT set as well. My set has really rough bottom edges. It's actually so bad that you can easily see the roughness from above when using them. Makes me almost wonder if I should manually sandpaper them. Not really something you wish to do after dropping 100-150€ on them. This is especially weird since my blank gateron set has perfectly fine edges, which ePBT at least used to use as a keycap suplier to my knowledge. Maybe it was just one bad patch. The dye sublimation is pretty good on my set but there is some blurriness especially on longer words like "delete" and "insert".

Another thing I noticed is how scooped and barred F and J keys clanck differently when bottoming out on my normal south-facing non-led cherry switches. Really noticeable when using silenced switches. My Lepold set doesn't do this, but then again they don't seem to be using extra scooped homing keys.

Only thing I somewhat dislike about Leopold doubleshots is their slightly smaller size on xy axis leaving larger caps between the keys. Not a dealbreaker though.

By Gateron profile do you mean this one? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/woo-dy/woo-dy-a-67-keys-mechanical-keyboard-that-is-breathing

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4560 on: Tue, 12 November 2019, 14:03:49 »
I've heard of keycap flaring on ePBT 9009 R2, and my R4 has it as well. According to some hobbyists, 'enthusiasts' are expected to undertake minor post-sale tasks with some Chinese parts, such as sanding down keycap flaring. Apparently, you have to do some work on them to get them to 'endgame' level or whatnot.

See, for example, this review of ePBT 9009:

https://brianlee.blog/2018/07/26/review-enjoypbt-9009/

Quote
However, the keycaps are not all perfect.

Show Image


As seen in the photo above, the edges of the keycaps are pretty jagged and rough. In some cases, there are even extra PBT bits protruding outwards from the keycaps. Nothing that a file can’t solve, but I wish it were better. You get jagged edges with most PBT sets, even the more expensive ones like IMSTO Ural. However, the edges on /dev/tty are near perfect on every key and are the benchmark of PBT quality (as in the keycap itself, not the legends) to me so seeing burrs on the ePBT is off-putting.

Warping is a serious issue that past iterations of ePBT/Gateron caps and most PBT keysets face. In many cases, the long modifier keys and spacebars are so warped that even with the most well-lubed of stabilizers, they would cause an uneven depress and as such cause the stabilizer to rattle.

In the case of the ePBT 9009, warping is still an issue on the longer keys, but much less so. On the shorter keys like both shifts, backspace and enter, warping is a mild issue at best. The keys look relatively straight on all 3 axes and probably won’t cause an issue with your stabilizers.


I've heard that the way ePBT caps are shaped is also suboptimal for Zeal switches. Apparently, they slam into the switch housing, which undermines the silencing. I'll have to test this.

I'm going to be testing Leopold doubleshots on my Zilents eventually, after I'm done with GMK.

As for Gateron profile, that might be it. Only a little is known at this time.

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4561 on: Thu, 14 November 2019, 11:40:07 »
Oh, your assumption is right. As far as I can tell, ePBT is largely trying to mimic classic GMK. However, its dye-sub process was always 'runnier' or blurrier than GMK. It is closing in on GMK in legend sharpness, however. But there are other issues with their keycaps.

I actually like the feel of ePBT more than GMK, no matter if it is on MX Browns or Zealios. ePBT 9009 was using some very smooth-surfaced blanks that were still grippy. But the keycaps themselves were less consistent than GMK - some of them had flaring at the bottom, for example.

If you put an ePBT set on a big board, you can usually see the difference from GMK, which is more orderly and regimented. GMK is known for a higher degree of consistency in the keycap shape, and they don't warp or get tilted off-centre easily. If only the legends were a nicer font, like Gorton Modified.

I find the colouration of most Leopold keycap sets to be a bit dull, but that's understandable as they have to use PBT. The legends are amazing, though. Really set a standard for the industry. And the profile is truly something special. I wonder if the rumoured "Gateron profile" will beat it.


So that's what Epbt is!

Online Findecanor

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4562 on: Thu, 14 November 2019, 13:13:49 »
I wonder if the rumoured "Gateron profile" will beat [Leopold].
Gateron manufactures the plastic keycaps, that get printed and sold as EnjoyPBT. I dunno who does the printing, whether EnjoyPBT is a separate company or just a brand of Gateron's.
« Last Edit: Thu, 14 November 2019, 13:16:23 by Findecanor »
I'm getting a bit fed up of spam-bots now ...

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4563 on: Thu, 14 November 2019, 13:28:19 »
Okay, but it turns out that we're talking about two different things here.

ePBT uses (or used to) Gateron blanks for their printing process. The Gateron blanks are well-liked, and represent good value. There have been some rumors that ePBT hasn't been using those blanks in recent batches.

There are a number of Chinese manufacturers who are distributing keycaps, and I've seen that some of the different companies seem to be using the same blanks, the same molds. Probably Gateron, but I don't have measuring equipment to tell. Again, some of the Cherry-profile keycaps from different dye-sub companies look like they are using the same molds.

The other issue, though, is the new 'Gateron profile,' which seems to be something new and unique. 'Gateron profile,' in this context, is not a reference to the Gateron blanks used by ePBT, but an entirely new profile that is property of Gateron. These keycaps are not commonly available yet, so details are scarce.

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4564 on: Thu, 14 November 2019, 13:56:00 »
an entirely new profile that is property of Gateron.
I know about that one. But please express yourself properly!
I'm getting a bit fed up of spam-bots now ...

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4565 on: Thu, 14 November 2019, 15:07:55 »
This is probably less of an unpopular opinion here, and more of one on DT, but I really do think MX for the most part sounds better. Could be a result of lack of cap selection, or me just never using lubed/modded alps, but the sound is just never as good for me. Especially for linears.

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4566 on: Fri, 15 November 2019, 05:51:53 »
This is probably less of an unpopular opinion here, and more of one on DT, but I really do think MX for the most part sounds better. Could be a result of lack of cap selection, or me just never using lubed/modded alps, but the sound is just never as good for me. Especially for linears.

Cherry MX brown sound and feel terrible though.

Offline vegs

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4567 on: Fri, 15 November 2019, 08:12:38 »
This is probably less of an unpopular opinion here, and more of one on DT, but I really do think MX for the most part sounds better. Could be a result of lack of cap selection, or me just never using lubed/modded alps, but the sound is just never as good for me. Especially for linears.

Cherry MX brown sound and feel terrible though.
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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4568 on: Fri, 15 November 2019, 12:09:35 »
This is probably less of an unpopular opinion here, and more of one on DT, but I really do think MX for the most part sounds better. Could be a result of lack of cap selection, or me just never using lubed/modded alps, but the sound is just never as good for me. Especially for linears.

Cherry MX brown sound and feel terrible though.
Show Image


I don't understand this GIF

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4569 on: Fri, 15 November 2019, 12:23:47 »
This is probably less of an unpopular opinion here, and more of one on DT, but I really do think MX for the most part sounds better. Could be a result of lack of cap selection, or me just never using lubed/modded alps, but the sound is just never as good for me. Especially for linears.

Cherry MX brown sound and feel terrible though.
Show Image


I don't understand this GIF

How is it misunderstandable to you?

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4570 on: Fri, 15 November 2019, 13:22:42 »
This is probably less of an unpopular opinion here, and more of one on DT, but I really do think MX for the most part sounds better. Could be a result of lack of cap selection, or me just never using lubed/modded alps, but the sound is just never as good for me. Especially for linears.

Cherry MX brown sound and feel terrible though.
Show Image


I don't understand this GIF

How is it misunderstandable to you?

Oh, it says "wrong" D:

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4571 on: Fri, 15 November 2019, 13:23:31 »
I can describe the feel and sound of cherry mx browns.

The sound is kinda like scratching against some plastic plunger, which is a horrible clack. The feel is kinda like cherry mx reds, except i have more accuracy.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4572 on: Fri, 15 November 2019, 14:51:44 »
I mean, tbh brown's aren't the example I'm speaking on, but they sound better than Alps to me still.

Alps are just so........Hollow? I think that's what it is, but I can't really say.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4573 on: Fri, 15 November 2019, 16:36:43 »
Keycap selection has a considerable impact on the sound of MX Browns, though. That's why I put WYSE DCS on them. It's a deeper, lower-pitched clack. Even GMK sounds chittery on Brown, but WYSE is an improvement.

Offline VimLover

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4574 on: Fri, 15 November 2019, 19:12:17 »

1. Switches are personal preference and cherry switches and rubber domes are just as good as super lubed holy trash panda X zealios hand made switches.

2. The Microsoft Sculpt is more Ergonomic than Ergodox and other non sculpted split keyboards.

3. High end plastic like the HHKB is much better than aluminum. Better weight, better looks.

4. I lied in #1, Topre is the best switch.



Offline Sifo

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4575 on: Fri, 15 November 2019, 20:33:01 »

1. Switches are personal preference and cherry switches and rubber domes are just as good as super lubed holy trash panda X zealios hand made switches.

2. The Microsoft Sculpt is more Ergonomic than Ergodox and other non sculpted split keyboards.

3. High end plastic like the HHKB is much better than aluminum. Better weight, better looks.

4. I lied in #1, Topre is the best switch.




wow the topre circlejerk, so brave, controversial and unpopular!

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Offline yui

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4576 on: Sat, 16 November 2019, 03:32:04 »
can't fault him, he loves vim, real programmers uses C-x M-c M-butterfly :)

(https://xkcd.com/378/)
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Offline VimLover

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4577 on: Sat, 16 November 2019, 18:41:55 »

1. Switches are personal preference and cherry switches and rubber domes are just as good as super lubed holy trash panda X zealios hand made switches.

2. The Microsoft Sculpt is more Ergonomic than Ergodox and other non sculpted split keyboards.

3. High end plastic like the HHKB is much better than aluminum. Better weight, better looks.

4. I lied in #1, Topre is the best switch.




wow the topre circlejerk, so brave, controversial and unpopular!

I would argue that it has become a fad to hate on Topre as an overpriced switch/expensive rubber dome. At least that's my read of the current meta.

Offline iamacicada

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4578 on: Sun, 17 November 2019, 07:28:47 »
Heavy keyboards are overrated.

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4579 on: Sun, 17 November 2019, 08:24:43 »
can't fault him, he loves vim, real programmers uses C-x M-c M-butterfly :)

(https://xkcd.com/378/)

I don't even program  :eek:

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4580 on: Sun, 17 November 2019, 08:44:37 »
Heavy keyboards are overrated.

Only if they look bad :)

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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4581 on: Sun, 17 November 2019, 12:30:49 »
Heavy keyboards are overrated.

I would rather like something that's light and portable.


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Re: Unpopular Keyboard Opinions
« Reply #4582 on: Sun, 17 November 2019, 16:37:28 »
Typing speed doesn’t matter.