Author Topic: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems  (Read 90704 times)

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Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #350 on: Wed, 03 October 2018, 15:04:22 »
I've looked at my new batch of retooled BOX switches (rose-gold-themed Novelias) and compared them with the original stem shape (Hako True) under magnification.  I don't see any difference on the rear side where the metal pins protrude for connection to a PCB.  There is a difference in the stem shape: the outer "perimeter walls" are slightly thicker, and the horizontal part of the stem still has vertical protrusions, but they are thinner and slimmer.  I do not have callipers, but these were photographed as parallel as possible, and using my ruler on my screen, the overall X and Y thickness, including the protrusions, seems to be basically the same.  Here's the comparison:

New stem on the left, old stem on the right in all pictures.







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Offline nerdblog_io

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #351 on: Wed, 03 October 2018, 16:09:01 »
I've looked at my new batch of retooled BOX switches (rose-gold-themed Novelias) and compared them with the original stem shape (Hako True) under magnification.  I don't see any difference on the rear side where the metal pins protrude for connection to a PCB.  There is a difference in the stem shape: the outer "perimeter walls" are slightly thicker, and the horizontal part of the stem still has vertical protrusions, but they are thinner and slimmer.  I do not have callipers, but these were photographed as parallel as possible, and using my ruler on my screen, the overall X and Y thickness, including the protrusions, seems to be basically the same.  Here's the comparison:

New stem on the left, old stem on the right in all pictures.

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Offline portbaron

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #352 on: Wed, 03 October 2018, 18:19:29 »
Ok so I am getting A2LA calibrated digital calipers this week. I have old navies/blues/royal and New jades/novelias. Going to compare vs clears. Anecdotally caps slide on the new a little bit easier than old.
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Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #353 on: Wed, 03 October 2018, 22:10:49 »



Pretty easy to understand that they're Cherry MX *style* switches.....
Thanks. Mocking fellow keyboard enthusiasts isn't a good look.

Offline Kavik

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #354 on: Thu, 04 October 2018, 15:48:32 »



Pretty easy to understand that they're Cherry MX *style* switches.....
Thanks. Mocking fellow keyboard enthusiasts isn't a good look.

I think you meant to quote mdlt97, not donutcat, just FYI.
Maybe they're waiting for gasmasks and latex to get sexy again.

The world has become a weird place.

Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #355 on: Thu, 04 October 2018, 15:51:52 »
No, just thanking donutcat (and zslane) for clarifying what I meant. I do my best not to feed trolls.

Offline Kavik

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #356 on: Thu, 04 October 2018, 15:54:49 »
Ah, gotcha. Rereading your post, I see that now. Sorry.
Maybe they're waiting for gasmasks and latex to get sexy again.

The world has become a weird place.

Offline abrahamstechnology

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #357 on: Sat, 06 October 2018, 14:50:35 »

Offline HotRoderX

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #358 on: Sat, 06 October 2018, 15:16:52 »
I am only seeing one logical answer to this honestly might simply have been people JUMPED to the wrong conclusion to start with.

I take a cherry MX clear then take a re-tooled box switch. Measure both and both are the exactly same tolerances on the stim. The retooled box has the little nubs giving them LESS surface area to clamp on to the cap. The cherry MX clear has more surface area due to nub less design.

Since this issue is still happening it has to be the added nubs. Perhaps there causing a situation were pressure is being placed on the cap in such a concentrated area that its causing the cape to stress and fracture. That is the only logical conclusion I think anyone can come to. Its one I hadn't thought of and no one else has obviously. Perhaps the issue was never the thickness but the nubs them selfs.

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #359 on: Sat, 06 October 2018, 15:38:22 »
My theory is that the current design is the original design for which the tooling was done to begin with.  Then Kailh changed the spec and made new molds per request of some other company--that's the shape we originally saw with the wider protrusions.  Now after the complaints about cracking keycap stems, Kailh probably reverted to the original tooling, which would explain how they were able to switch manufacturing from one stem version to another so quickly, seemingly with almost no downtime.  I agree that the better "retooling" would probably be to just get rid of those nubs, which likely requires making new molds.  No idea how far off the mark this theory is, but it's the conclusion I came to based on what Kailh said about changing their original spec for BOX switches, and also how quickly the "new" (="old" by my theory) stems began shipping.
« Last Edit: Sat, 06 October 2018, 15:40:30 by Photoelectric »
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Offline portbaron

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #360 on: Sat, 06 October 2018, 15:56:53 »
So I measured new stems and they are similar to clears, but have that little nub on the x axis. I have just been filing those nubs off, and have had gmk and SP SA caps on old version box whites and navys for 6 months now, and today I don't see any cracks. I was hoping the new versions made this unnecessary because it takes hours to do right, but apparently it's still suspect.

I did put some spare gmk caps on new jades for a day while waiting for a pcb, and none of those have shown cracking yet. But I don't know if I have the patience to file the jades for an 1800, leaving my only alternatives as a set of gatistotles I have sitting around. I love the sound and feel of gatistotles, but the crooked stem aspect is daunting even though I have a bunch of extras.

So I guess this means there's currently no way to get good off the shelf or non-crooked clicky switches.
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Offline Starius

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #361 on: Sat, 06 October 2018, 16:50:03 »
If anyone remembers my little clear keycap tester cap test on box switches from further back in the thread (where I used cheap clear keycaps that had no trouble on cherry mx switches but started showing marks in the old box switches within 1 - 2 days...   well, I last left off stating that the new retooled Jade switches didn't show any stress marks after a week and I pretty much left it at that.  (As far as I was initially concerned, I thought it was all good. )

However, I did leave that keycap on the retooled jade switch anyways.  After this recent discussion here I decided to check in on it.  Sure enough, after all this time now, a distinctive stress/crack line is showing up on one of the cross sides of the stem.  This is extremely disheartening. 

I loved how the box switches felt, but I guess I can no longer trust them as long as those nubs remain.
(I'm taking your word that there are still small nubs on the new jade switches, because I have trouble seeing them with my eyes.)

I do not know what to do with all these switches now...  

Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #362 on: Sat, 06 October 2018, 17:26:36 »

I do not know what to do with all these switches now...

I'm going to try this pliers method from abrahamstechnology on Deskthority. Hoping it works, since I can't go back to any inferior Cherry or Cherry-compatible switch.

https://deskthority.net/review-f45/box-switches-still-cracking-keycaps-t19891.html#p425551

Online pixelpusher

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #363 on: Sat, 06 October 2018, 22:08:28 »

I do not know what to do with all these switches now...

I'm going to try this pliers method from abrahamstechnology on Deskthority. Hoping it works, since I can't go back to any inferior Cherry or Cherry-compatible switch.

https://deskthority.net/review-f45/box-switches-still-cracking-keycaps-t19891.html#p425551

Looks like that didn't work either.  He's now saying many keycaps are cracked

RIP

We're just going to have to use PBT caps on these.  There's no other thing to do if you want these novel switches.

Offline iliketimex

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #364 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 09:42:18 »
Just an observation - Cherry MX stems also have a nub - it is just much thinner and on the very edge of the stem. Some BSUN made stems do not have a nub - and SA profile keycaps literally fall off the stem. So just getting rid of the nub is not ideal. This has as much to do with material types as anything - the keycaps have to be under some sort of continuous stress or they will fall off the stem.
« Last Edit: Sun, 07 October 2018, 09:45:13 by iliketimex »

Offline Techno Trousers

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #365 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 10:04:14 »

Looks like that didn't work either.  He's now saying many keycaps are cracked

RIP

We're just going to have to use PBT caps on these.  There's no other thing to do if you want these novel switches.
I believe he means that his were cracked before he modded the stems. But I'm going to mod and test before risking any ABS caps on them.

Offline wholypantalones

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #366 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 10:19:48 »
Just an observation - Cherry MX stems also have a nub - it is just much thinner and on the very edge of the stem.

No they don't. Cherry MX tactile clears and tactile grey have a tiny nub and they've never cracked any of my keycaps after years of use.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74836.msg1848875#msg1848875

Offline ReverbSlush

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #367 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 12:46:12 »
Aside from maybe 1 thread here and there... why hasn't this blown up more?

I just got a newsletter on 10/5 from Kono:  "Royal Hako Clear and Royal Hako True switches available now! Experience typing like never before with these unique, intensely tactile switches. - Buy Now"

Do vendors just have such tight margins that they can't afford to address this responsibly?  Is it only up to us the consumer to do the research and choose not to buy them?  Doesn't look good to new casual users getting into the hobby.

Offline HotRoderX

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #368 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 13:07:24 »
Aside from maybe 1 thread here and there... why hasn't this blown up more?

I just got a newsletter on 10/5 from Kono:  "Royal Hako Clear and Royal Hako True switches available now! Experience typing like never before with these unique, intensely tactile switches. - Buy Now"

Do vendors just have such tight margins that they can't afford to address this responsibly?  Is it only up to us the consumer to do the research and choose not to buy them?  Doesn't look good to new casual users getting into the hobby.

Honestly and this is just my 2 cents. I have always found Kono's practices shady. There always seems to be some excuse or reason they can't do something. There has been issues with them on reddit in the past with warrenty's on there products. Them sending out a newsletter with a product they know is defective to try to move stock isn't shocking at all. I am sure they have some stupid excuse to why its ok for them to do so.

Online pixelpusher

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #369 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 13:09:46 »
Aside from maybe 1 thread here and there... why hasn't this blown up more?

I just got a newsletter on 10/5 from Kono:  "Royal Hako Clear and Royal Hako True switches available now! Experience typing like never before with these unique, intensely tactile switches. - Buy Now"

Do vendors just have such tight margins that they can't afford to address this responsibly?  Is it only up to us the consumer to do the research and choose not to buy them?  Doesn't look good to new casual users getting into the hobby.

To be fair, they do warn right at the top of their product page:
Quote
"Compatibility Note: pre-retooling Box switches may cause cracking in certain aftermarket ABS keycap sets notably those from GMK. PBT / POM keycaps will not crack, but they may experience stretching. Internal testing indicates that the cracking / stretching does not affect GMK / aftermarket sets universally, so yours may fit correctly on Box switches. We recommend testing a spare keycap on your Box switches for at least two weeks, then performing a visual inspection / fitment test on Cherry MX switches, before applying the entire set."

That's some very plain and practical advise.  I wouldn't recommend anything other than PBT on these switches.  I'm not a fan of having anything that limits my options for keycaps, but some of the box switches really are worth it. 

« Last Edit: Sun, 07 October 2018, 13:11:28 by pixelpusher »

Offline abrahamstechnology

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #370 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 13:34:20 »
Just an observation - Cherry MX stems also have a nub - it is just much thinner and on the very edge of the stem.

No they don't. Cherry MX tactile clears and tactile grey have a tiny nub and they've never cracked any of my keycaps after years of use.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74836.msg1848875#msg1848875
Kailh has made MX-compatible switches for years with no fitting or cracking issues. The have no excuse for messing these BOX switches up twice in a row.

Kailh is making themselves the Apple of keyswitches.

Offline wholypantalones

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #371 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 13:48:56 »
Just an observation - Cherry MX stems also have a nub - it is just much thinner and on the very edge of the stem.

No they don't. Cherry MX tactile clears and tactile grey have a tiny nub and they've never cracked any of my keycaps after years of use.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74836.msg1848875#msg1848875
Kailh has made MX-compatible switches for years with no fitting or cracking issues. The have no excuse for messing these BOX switches up twice in a row.

Kailh is making themselves the Apple of keyswitches.

But they're so innovative and hot right now, and people still waste their money on Apple products..

Offline abrahamstechnology

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #372 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 14:23:40 »
Just an observation - Cherry MX stems also have a nub - it is just much thinner and on the very edge of the stem.

No they don't. Cherry MX tactile clears and tactile grey have a tiny nub and they've never cracked any of my keycaps after years of use.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74836.msg1848875#msg1848875
Kailh has made MX-compatible switches for years with no fitting or cracking issues. The have no excuse for messing these BOX switches up twice in a row.

Kailh is making themselves the Apple of keyswitches.

But they're so innovative and hot right now, and people still waste their money on Apple products..
BOX switches are a good design, but poorly engineered and eventually break keycaps.

Offline Harms

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #373 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 16:56:33 »
For real?

I have some new re tooled box royals coming in.

Does that mean I shouldn't use them?

This is ridiculous. I already had to rebuy them a second time.

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Offline abrahamstechnology

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #374 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 17:09:34 »
For real?

I have some new re tooled box royals coming in.

Does that mean I shouldn't use them?

This is ridiculous. I already had to rebuy them a second time.

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I know, right?

Offline portbaron

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #375 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 17:26:26 »
For real?

I have some new re tooled box royals coming in.

Does that mean I shouldn't use them?

This is ridiculous. I already had to rebuy them a second time.

Sent from my BBF100-2 using Tapatalk
I still have some gmks sitting on the new versions testing for stress cracks. So far after almost a week I don't see any cracks, so I might live dangerously and just use mine. I'm going to test full boards with new jades and novelias (without filing) if everyone else is too paranoid to try it. I have too many keycaps anyway and I want the click. This way there's more testing with relevant caps and less hysteria. If they do crack, fine, I'll file them down like I did my whites and navys and I'll know for sure.

So far has anyone had thick (gmk or epbt) keycaps disintegrate on them or literally break off the board without gratuitous switching? Or do they just notice that the keycaps are looser if moved to another board?
« Last Edit: Sun, 07 October 2018, 17:32:54 by portbaron »
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Offline Starius

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #376 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 17:34:50 »
I still have some gmks sitting on the new versions testing for stress cracks. So far after almost a week I don't see any cracks, so I might live dangerously and just use mine. I'm going to test full boards with new jades and novelias (without filing) if everyone else is too paranoid to try it.

Well, like I said, the stress marks on the new Jades I tested took a lot longer than a week to show.
I started my keycap test on the new Jade on August 24th.  And a couple weeks later, things still looked good. 
But when I took a look the other day, not as good. 
Granted, I've only tested one keycap.  But the way it looks today is how the keycaps looked on the original Boxes after just a couple days. 

I strongly urge more patience in your testing before putting a valuable set on them.  Just my advice.

EDIT:  Wrote this before you edited your statement about testing with more relevant keycaps. ;)
« Last Edit: Sun, 07 October 2018, 17:37:03 by Starius »

Offline portbaron

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #377 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 17:38:57 »
I still have some gmks sitting on the new versions testing for stress cracks. So far after almost a week I don't see any cracks, so I might live dangerously and just use mine. I'm going to test full boards with new jades and novelias (without filing) if everyone else is too paranoid to try it.

Well, like I said, the stress marks on the new Jades I tested took a lot longer than a week to show.
I started my keycap test on the new Jade on August 24th.  And a couple weeks later, things still looked good. 
But when I took a look the other day, not as good. 
Granted, I've only tested one keycap.  But the way it looks today is how the keycaps looked on the original Boxes after just a couple days. 

I strongly urge more patience in your testing before putting a valuable set on them.  Just my advice.
I have sets I'm willing to lose to know. Probably be good to use them rather than just have them sit untouched too. I'm also not sure that white lines showing up = eventually going break off. Of course I could just spend 4+ hours/board and file them, but most people won't do that so it's good to know where they stand stock.  I want to see if I can get the caps to actually split.
« Last Edit: Sun, 07 October 2018, 17:51:57 by portbaron »
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Offline Starius

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #378 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 18:20:35 »
That's a good point, some stress marks may just remain that - marks, and not progress beyond that stage.
And if that's as bad as it gets for some sets, I imagine I might be okay with that. 

I know it's going to take quite some time but keep us apprised of your results!


Offline abrahamstechnology

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #379 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 21:32:08 »
I still have some gmks sitting on the new versions testing for stress cracks. So far after almost a week I don't see any cracks, so I might live dangerously and just use mine. I'm going to test full boards with new jades and novelias (without filing) if everyone else is too paranoid to try it.

Well, like I said, the stress marks on the new Jades I tested took a lot longer than a week to show.
I started my keycap test on the new Jade on August 24th.  And a couple weeks later, things still looked good. 
But when I took a look the other day, not as good. 
Granted, I've only tested one keycap.  But the way it looks today is how the keycaps looked on the original Boxes after just a couple days. 

I strongly urge more patience in your testing before putting a valuable set on them.  Just my advice.
I have sets I'm willing to lose to know. Probably be good to use them rather than just have them sit untouched too. I'm also not sure that white lines showing up = eventually going break off. Of course I could just spend 4+ hours/board and file them, but most people won't do that so it's good to know where they stand stock.  I want to see if I can get the caps to actually split.

With thin doubleshots, it happens in only a few days, especially  if they are old, like my poor Wyse's.

Offline portbaron

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #380 on: Sun, 07 October 2018, 22:00:39 »


With thin doubleshots, it happens in only a few days, especially  if they are old, like my poor Wyse's.
Ya the same apparently for thin tai hao ABS, I want to see what happens with GMK and epbt in the long run. If only the clickys and tactiles weren't so nice, we wouldn't be caring about all this lol.
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Offline abrahamstechnology

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #381 on: Mon, 08 October 2018, 07:17:57 »
Yes, If Kailh doesn't get their act together I hope Gateron or Outemu starts making clickbar switches.

Offline fer.real

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #382 on: Mon, 08 October 2018, 09:50:22 »
I'm just speculating, but from the beginning I was concerned about the shape of the housing around the cross.  It's not quite a circle and I wonder if it also puts uneven pressure on the stem of the keycap.

Has anyone successfully modded these switches, new or old, so they don't break keycaps?

Offline abrahamstechnology

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #383 on: Mon, 08 October 2018, 11:00:35 »
I'm just speculating, but from the beginning I was concerned about the shape of the housing around the cross.  It's not quite a circle and I wonder if it also puts uneven pressure on the stem of the keycap.

Has anyone successfully modded these switches, new or old, so they don't break keycaps?

You can use pliers to scrape off the nubs, but it's very difficult to get exactly right, you end up making some *too* loose.

Offline PoochZag

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #384 on: Mon, 08 October 2018, 12:41:10 »
Based on what we know at this point in time, if one were to just commit to a GMK keyset to permanently stay on a single retooled BOX switch board would there be any issues?  It seems like all this stressing and cracking causes issues when moving to other, normal switches.  But just keeping them on the new BOX indefinitely seems fine, correct?

Really disappointed in all this and probably will never touch a BOX switch again.  Still kinda want to build my original planned board with Navies tho as they are so unique... so am just willing to commit to one keyset forever
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Offline Harms

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #385 on: Mon, 08 October 2018, 12:43:59 »
Based on what we know at this point in time, if one were to just commit to a GMK keyset to permanently stay on a single retooled BOX switch board would there be any issues?  It seems like all this stressing and cracking causes issues when moving to other, normal switches.  But just keeping them on the new BOX indefinitely seems fine, correct?

Really disappointed in all this and probably will never touch a BOX switch again.  Still kinda want to build my original planned board with Navies tho as they are so unique... so am just willing to commit to one keyset forever
Kind of like how I'm feeling with the Royals. The best tactile switch for me. I'm thinking of just building my board with it and using PBT caps on it. They won't get damaged right. It's just ABS I'm seeing getting damaged.

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Offline portbaron

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #386 on: Mon, 08 October 2018, 12:51:18 »
Based on what we know at this point in time, if one were to just commit to a GMK keyset to permanently stay on a single retooled BOX switch board would there be any issues?  It seems like all this stressing and cracking causes issues when moving to other, normal switches.  But just keeping them on the new BOX indefinitely seems fine, correct?

Really disappointed in all this and probably will never touch a BOX switch again.  Still kinda want to build my original planned board with Navies tho as they are so unique... so am just willing to commit to one keyset forever
I'm testing that now with new jades and novelias, but it may take a couple months to know for sure. I have filed the nubs off on whites and navys with a flat jeweler's file and those have not caused any problems in about 6 months.
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Offline monkt

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #387 on: Mon, 08 October 2018, 12:57:02 »
Based on what we know at this point in time, if one were to just commit to a GMK keyset to permanently stay on a single retooled BOX switch board would there be any issues?  It seems like all this stressing and cracking causes issues when moving to other, normal switches.  But just keeping them on the new BOX indefinitely seems fine, correct?

Really disappointed in all this and probably will never touch a BOX switch again.  Still kinda want to build my original planned board with Navies tho as they are so unique... so am just willing to commit to one keyset forever


I wouldn't assume that, personally. If the plastic cracks, then every time you put pressure on the key, it could be straining the crack further. That crack is a weak point, and I see no reason to assume it wouldn't get worse over time. The question is how much worse, and how much time? And that will vary according to many individual factors. It might work out for you individually, but we really don't know what to expect long-term. No one is in a position to give any assurances at this point.



Offline BlindAssassin111

  • Posts: 892
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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #388 on: Mon, 08 October 2018, 12:58:44 »
Based on what we know at this point in time, if one were to just commit to a GMK keyset to permanently stay on a single retooled BOX switch board would there be any issues?  It seems like all this stressing and cracking causes issues when moving to other, normal switches.  But just keeping them on the new BOX indefinitely seems fine, correct?

Really disappointed in all this and probably will never touch a BOX switch again.  Still kinda want to build my original planned board with Navies tho as they are so unique... so am just willing to commit to one keyset forever

If you don't already have the switches, you can get navies in a standard MX style switch from novelkeys, that way you don't have any worries at all. But if you already have the retooled navies...then the above reply is the answer.

Offline PoochZag

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #389 on: Mon, 08 October 2018, 13:11:19 »
Based on what we know at this point in time, if one were to just commit to a GMK keyset to permanently stay on a single retooled BOX switch board would there be any issues?  It seems like all this stressing and cracking causes issues when moving to other, normal switches.  But just keeping them on the new BOX indefinitely seems fine, correct?

Really disappointed in all this and probably will never touch a BOX switch again.  Still kinda want to build my original planned board with Navies tho as they are so unique... so am just willing to commit to one keyset forever

If you don't already have the switches, you can get navies in a standard MX style switch from novelkeys, that way you don't have any worries at all. But if you already have the retooled navies...then the above reply is the answer.

Thanks for all the answers, I'll probably cautiously proceed with that plan knowing it could ruin a keyset in the long term.

I do already own the switches, I probably wouldn't want to buy them after all this, but since Kailh already has my money, whatever.  I saw the speed Navies, thanks, but I'm really not a fan of short actuation point switches
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Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #390 on: Mon, 08 October 2018, 13:39:19 »
I saw the speed Navies, thanks, but I'm really not a fan of short actuation point switches

Box switches are short travel though so...

Offline portbaron

  • Posts: 294
Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #391 on: Mon, 08 October 2018, 13:54:41 »
I saw the speed Navies, thanks, but I'm really not a fan of short actuation point switches

Box switches are short travel though so...
Operating point of box navies is almost 2mm, speed click navies are ~1.25mm
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/3099/8088/files/BOX_Navy.pdf?5816470357010718290
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/3099/8088/files/CPG151101D234_Speed_Navy.pdf?5056584868980342845
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Offline BlindAssassin111

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  • I design keyboards and stuff.
Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #392 on: Mon, 08 October 2018, 13:59:56 »
Operating point of box navies is almost 2mm, speed click navies are ~1.25mm
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/3099/8088/files/BOX_Navy.pdf?5816470357010718290
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/3099/8088/files/CPG151101D234_Speed_Navy.pdf?5056584868980342845

I read the comment slightly wrong lol, I though pooch didn't like short travel and short actuation...oh well.
« Last Edit: Mon, 08 October 2018, 14:29:10 by BlindAssassin111 »

Offline Harms

  • Posts: 308
  • Location: Canada
Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #393 on: Mon, 08 October 2018, 14:27:09 »
I saw the speed Navies, thanks, but I'm really not a fan of short actuation point switches

Box switches are short travel though so...

When I read that I thought that too lol. But I think he means the shorter actuation point though.

Offline fer.real

  • Posts: 123
Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #394 on: Mon, 08 October 2018, 15:09:48 »
Pro Light Greens have a similar actuation to box switches.  Do they use a click bar?  If so, you could take the spring and clickbar from a box navy and put them in a pro light green.

Offline portbaron

  • Posts: 294
Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #395 on: Mon, 08 October 2018, 16:01:32 »
Pro Light Greens have a similar actuation to box switches.  Do they use a click bar?  If so, you could take the spring and clickbar from a box navy and put them in a pro light green.
They don't have a click bar
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Offline HotRoderX

  • Posts: 697
Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #396 on: Mon, 08 October 2018, 16:48:15 »
Pro Light Greens have a similar actuation to box switches.  Do they use a click bar?  If so, you could take the spring and clickbar from a box navy and put them in a pro light green.


I know you can't use the springs from a box switch in a non box switch. I would assume the clickbar is the same.

Offline fer.real

  • Posts: 123
Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #397 on: Mon, 08 October 2018, 18:56:03 »
Pro Light Greens have a similar actuation to box switches.  Do they use a click bar?  If so, you could take the spring and clickbar from a box navy and put them in a pro light green.


I know you can't use the springs from a box switch in a non box switch. I would assume the clickbar is the same.

Yes, I mangled that.  Thanks for correcting me.  I meant to say Speed Navy.

Speed navies actuate at 1.1mm, which is too early for me.  If the Pro light green used a clickbar, I was hoping to use the spring and click bar from a speed navy, because the pro green has a similar travel and actuation distance. 

Unfortunately, I don't think Kailh makes switches with a click bar outside of the box and speed lines.

Offline jizzaztartist

  • Posts: 27
Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #398 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 13:57:10 »
My friend bought some "new" Jade switches and watching his face when a spare GMK key cracked during the first installation was priceless.

These things are straight garbo  :))

Offline portbaron

  • Posts: 294
Re: Kailh BOX Switches Crack and Stress Keycap Stems
« Reply #399 on: Wed, 10 October 2018, 14:51:38 »
My friend bought some "new" Jade switches and watching his face when a spare GMK key cracked during the first installation was priceless.

These things are straight garbo  :))
Seriously how are people doing this? I have dozens of gmk caps on jades and novelias for several days now, and still none of them have cracks. I'm doing a long term test because they may develop later, but even on old navys and whites I never had caps crack when they were first put on. It seems to happen after time.
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 October 2018, 15:03:26 by portbaron »
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