[IC] Faraday60 - A QMK-compatible Topre HHKB Pro replacement PCB

[Gondolindrim]

Hey there guys!

I'm Gondolindrim, a brazilian engineer and mech enthusiast. I am known for my keyboard PCB projects, specially my open-source ones under the Acheron Project. These include the SharkPCB, ArcticPCB, Doddle60, Austin, Tsuki and some more.

Today I want to present you my newest project: the Faraday60!

The problem

At this point most users of the community know of Topre switches -- rubber-dome switches that use capacitive coupling for their activation effect. These switches are very unique and are known to be very good and pleasant to use; nonetheless, they are pretty scarce in our community, for a couple of reasons.

• First, the unique physical nature of the capacitive activation makes Topre really hard to integrate into QMK because it is specifically designed for contact-based switches; there are no everlasting efforts to make the Topre switches QMK compatible and none of the existent were widely adopted by the community for one reason or another. The most promising one (this one) apparently worked but no further information came from it since almost an year ago.
• Second, the actual circuitry needed to operate Topre switches is quite nasty. I have got a hold of a Leopold keyboard and was able to reverse-engineer it. The sensing circuit is very rudimentary and uses resistive factors and exponential decays to measure the switch activation. This process is heavily dependent on tolerances and routing the PCB is a pain because, since the sensing is done only by passive components, noise is a major issue and can affect the typing experience. The digital circuitry, on the other hand, is overly complicated, using multiplexers to sweep columns and making the sensing and digital circuits not isolated, being coupled gavanically, generating LOTS of problems.
• Third, despite Topre switches being famous for their unique feel (a "snappy" tactility) most of the community will stay away from them because the keyboards that use them -- Realforces, HHKBs and Leopolds -- range in the 250 dollar mark. Despite the price tag, these keyboards don't feature many of the qualities that we use custom keyboards for in the first place -- programmability, simplicity, good construction, customizability. There is the Hasu controller, designed by the legendary Hasu designer, which gives other nice features like bluetooth, but costs itself close to eighty dollars on top of the 200-something the keyboard goes for.
• Fourth, the Topre keyboards simply don't feel like 250 dollar keyboards. For instance, Topres do not have a good construction quality; my HHKB does not feel cheap, but for 250 dollars I can get a pretty darn good feeling aluminum mechanical keyboard. Leopolds have a nice steel plate, have good construction and good keycaps, but still feel "plasticky" and their sound is not the best. Realforces, well... they are the best of the three, but yet people miss that metallic case feel. The Norbaforce exists for a reason. There you go, TopClack, I redid my words. Realforces are good, I said it. Now we want more roleplay from you guys on stream. Call me when you want me there.

These reasons leave a bad taste in everyone's mouths; the Topre users hardly have support from the community -- replacement parts are scarce and expensive when available -- and the people that want to use Topre feel compelled not to.

Gondo to the rescue

To make a long story short, I have found a way to make Topre switches QMK compatible using simple and affordable sensing circuitry.

The circuit I designed, while being simple, fulfills industry-level requirements for user safety and signal integrity: the analog sensing is precise and based on active circuits; the analog and digital circuitry are completely isolated with optocouplers; the design is simple, allowing for customizability and, most important of all, able to be integrated into QMK, and can use both ATMEGA and ARM controllers.

The nice thing here is that this makes the PCB able to integrate all the QMK features we love and adore (RGB Topre maybe?). It also allows us to build native bluetooth into the PCB without the need for an extra controller.

My new design also allows for two very cool features we always wanted in mechanical keyboards: the switch activation level can be firmware-adjusted and every key can be configured to be used as an analog level input. This means that we can make the microcontroller read the strength of the switch press (in particular switches) and make use of that.

The Faraday60

Currently the method is in design stage, but I have made small-scale one-switch protos and used electronic simulation programs to test the concepts and everything shows it works wonderfully. The first real project I want to make is an HHKB Pro 2 replacement PCB. I am currently designing the PCB. I'm aiming for the best here: ESD protection, ARM MCU, VIA compatibility, the whole nine yards.

Once a fully working prototype is confirmed, it is going to be available for purchase through CannonKeys.

I have documented the whole design process and will make it available for everyone that wishes to use the technology to make custom Topre PCBs. All calculations, components, numbers and important thoughts. I will also make the Faraday60 open-source after some time.

The design calculations and procedures are described in the Faraday documentation. As of today (march 8th 2020) it's pretty incomplete and I'm writing it as I can.

What I need feedback on

And here is the actual IC part. Before going full MacGyver in this, I need to know a few design parameters from the community.

• First, I need to know if there is interest for this kind of PCB -- a QMK compatible HHKB Pro 2 replacement PCB.
• Second, I need an input on the features we are going to put there. The first idea is to make a simple PCB that can operate Topre and replace the USB hub with a common USB2.0 hub.
• However, we are also able to add native bluetooth and a very nice USB3.1 hub in there; these will ramp prices up because the bluetooth controller alone costs 9 dollars, and the USB3.1 hub controller almost 15. So our idea is to make a first operating version and, futurely, an "ultimate" version will all the big boi features. In this sense, I need to know if you guys agree with this or definitely want a first PCB with bluetooth or 3.1 USB or both.
• Of course, if you guys would like to see other features here that i haven't listed, please write them down.

Finally, I want a target price you guys would be comfortable to pay for an HHKB replacement PCB. I know this is not ideal but this PCB will not be cheap as a DZ60 and, as you have seen, there is a serious tradeoff between features and price here.

Acknowledgements

- Upas, who runs CannonKeys, for the support and being an awesome person
- The Off the Clack dudes -- Josh, Danny and Chris -- for their awesomeness and the fact they let me market my ideas there, including the Faraday;
- My mom, because I love her;
- MrKeebs, brother-in-keyboards and good friend. Long live MrKeebs!
- Tzarc, who helped immensely during the design stages, specially in the design of the electrocapacitive pads footprints

- Jae and Quakemz from TopClack for their support and feedback!
- Man of Interests for his support and encouragement!

[LightningXI]

No freaking way this is happening...

It's happening!!

Gondo to the rescue! As someone who owns multiple HHKBs and loves them to death, this is amazing. I can't wait to see and hear more.

1. I don't care for having a USB hub built in.

2. Yes to QMK and VIA.

3. I think USB C is neat but not a necessity. Plus, I don't want to file my HHKB case for fitment.

4. Pricewise, what's feasible? Like $50 per piece?


Would love to see this for the Realforce 87 and 86u. Especially the latter. I have a "84u" that depends on AutoHotkey and Karabiner Elements for it to work the way I want it.

[Gondolindrim]

Reserved

08/03/2020: Added the limited portion of the documentation I have already written
13/03/2020: Aaaaaaaaaand I'm on TC and MoI. Thank you so much guys!
12/05/2020: Big project updates and changes. See this post.
01/09/2020: After some hiccups, the project is beggining to take form. I will stream the design and publish the stream VoDs for anyone interested.

[hottrout]

I would be interested in such a project.

1. I don't personally need a USB hub built in.
2. QMK and or VIA wold be excellent.
3. Bluetooth is not a requirement.

Great to see this.

[Gondolindrim]

No freaking way this is happening...

It's happening!!

Gondo to the rescue! As someone who owns multiple HHKBs and loves them to death, this is amazing. I can't wait to see and hear more.

1. I don't care for having a USB hub built in.

2. Yes to QMK and VIA.

3. I think USB C is neat but not a necessity. Plus, I don't want to file my HHKB case for fitment.

4. Pricewise, what's feasible? Like $50 per piece?


Would love to see this for the Realforce 87 and 86u. Especially the latter. I have a "84u" that depends on AutoHotkey and Karabiner Elements for it to work the way I want it.

It's happening!

1. Having a USB2.0 hub there is pretty cheap and I think not including it will leave two big holes in the case, so I think that at least 2.0 is doable.
2. Will do
3. Yeah, I'm not flexible on this. We are going mini USB this time, I am also not fond of filing cases around
4. I think 50-55 is doable for the "basic" PCB. As was shown in the post, for the more expensive features this may change drastically. The thing is, we are already paying 80 for a Hasu controller, so I think 50-55 is reasonable.
5. If this design provenly works, we can easily port it out to other keyboards. The circuitry is modular, so making new layouts is simple.

[Gondolindrim]

I would be interested in such a project.

1. I don't personally need a USB hub built in.
2. QMK and or VIA wold be excellent.
3. Bluetooth is not a requirement.

Great to see this.

Nice! Thanks for your input! I think USB hub will be done, at least 2.0 since it really is not expensive. Bluetooth is on juri.

[LuiKang]

Impressive work @Gondolindrim

I'm interested in all features, but most importantly programmability through QMK!

[alphabirth]

This is amazing!  While I'll skip the first round because I don't have an HHKB that I want to swap out, I would be seriously interested in the next round if you created a new design in a 65% (or 75%) formfactor.  I really liked the feeling of Topre when I've tried them at meetups, but haven't picked one up for exactly the reasons you mentioned above.

[Gondolindrim]

This is amazing!  While I'll skip the first round because I don't have an HHKB that I want to swap out, I would be seriously interested in the next round if you created a new design in a 65% (or 75%) formfactor.  I really liked the feeling of Topre when I've tried them at meetups, but haven't picked one up for exactly the reasons you mentioned above.

You know, this is my personal frustration with this project. Unfortunately we still need Topre hardware (sliders, plate and switch pieces) for the PCB to work, and the only way you can get your hands on that hardware is getting a Topre keyboard. Therefore Faraday won't solve the price tag issue, alebit by a little. It only solves the lackluster features of the Topre keyboards. However, I think that you can grab some Topre pieces from here and there, so my next step with the project is making  a  plate so you can put it in one of those universal 60% cases -- imagine a Topre Tofu??? Would it be called... "Trobfu"?

[Gondolindrim]

This is amazing!  While I'll skip the first round because I don't have an HHKB that I want to swap out, I would be seriously interested in the next round if you created a new design in a 65% (or 75%) formfactor.  I really liked the feeling of Topre when I've tried them at meetups, but haven't picked one up for exactly the reasons you mentioned above.

Hopefully you will feel compelled to get a Topre board now

[NathanAlphaMan]

Cannot express how excited I am for this. If this project is successful, it opens a whole new door to custom Topre boards, and boy oh boy is that a door I want to pass through.

[Keikenhate]

Count me in for this one, every feature is welcomed for me, i feel like celebrating now ^^

[hkiri]

• First, I need to know if there is interest for this kind of PCB -- a QMK compatible HHKB Pro 2 replacement PCB.

Hell Yeah!

• Second, I need an input on the features we are going to put there. The first idea is to make a simple PCB that can operate Topre and replace the USB hub
  

I don't care about the USB hub to be honest. Programmability with QMK is all I want from this PCB!

• However, we are also able to add native bluetooth and a very nice USB3.1 hub in there; these will ramp prices up because the bluetooth controller alone costs 9 dollars, and the USB3.1 hub controller almost 15. So our idea is to make a first operating version and, futurely, an "ultimate" version will all the big boi features. In this sense, I need to know if you guys agree with this or definitely want a first PCB with bluetooth or 3.1 USB or both.

I don't need Bluetooth and the PCB with all its ports should fit in the HHKB case without any further modifications needed.

Finally, I want a target price you guys would be comfortable to pay for an HHKB replacement PCB. I know this is not ideal but this PCB will not be cheap as a DZ60 and, as you have seen, there is a serious tradeoff between features and price here.

As long as it is cheaper than the already available Hasu controller I'm fine!

[demonahz]

I'm all in on this!

[falzm]

I'm in!

[myyrddraal]

Will it work (supposedly with some small modifications) with niz Switches? They are on par with topre except for rubber dome forces (which are easily available elsewhere). The niz switches are plentifully available.

1. Definitely don't need 3.1 hub on board.

60$ for hhkb size pcb is fully ok.


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[Gondolindrim]

Show Image

Cannot express how excited I am for this. If this project is successful, it opens a whole new door to custom Topre boards, and boy oh boy is that a door I want to pass through.

• First, I need to know if there is interest for this kind of PCB -- a QMK compatible HHKB Pro 2 replacement PCB.

Hell Yeah!

• Second, I need an input on the features we are going to put there. The first idea is to make a simple PCB that can operate Topre and replace the USB hub
  

I don't care about the USB hub to be honest. Programmability with QMK is all I want from this PCB!

• However, we are also able to add native bluetooth and a very nice USB3.1 hub in there; these will ramp prices up because the bluetooth controller alone costs 9 dollars, and the USB3.1 hub controller almost 15. So our idea is to make a first operating version and, futurely, an "ultimate" version will all the big boi features. In this sense, I need to know if you guys agree with this or definitely want a first PCB with bluetooth or 3.1 USB or both.

I don't need Bluetooth and the PCB with all its ports should fit in the HHKB case without any further modifications needed.

Finally, I want a target price you guys would be comfortable to pay for an HHKB replacement PCB. I know this is not ideal but this PCB will not be cheap as a DZ60 and, as you have seen, there is a serious tradeoff between features and price here.

As long as it is cheaper than the already available Hasu controller I'm fine!

Count me in for this one, every feature is welcomed for me, i feel like celebrating now ^^

Let's do this guys!

[Gondolindrim]

Will it work (supposedly with some small modifications) with niz Switches? They are on par with topre except for rubber dome forces (which are easily available elsewhere). The niz switches are plentifully available.

1. Definitely don't need 3.1 hub on board.

60$ for hhkb size pcb is fully ok.


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Haven't got my hands in NiZ keyboards, but since they are supposed to be Topre clones I'd say they'd work fine albeit some adjustments might be needed.

[Ensaum]

Very interested. I would like to see a version without the usb hub in addition to the regular one too for Pro1 compatibility.

[Nizkeyboard]

Very interested!

[KingOfMemes]

Oh God... Endgame is finally coming

[Acereconkeys]

Wow this is actually finally happening... someone did it. What probably 20+ "ic"s have tried to do over the years.

I'm just now reading through all of the accompanying PCB documentation but already so far I've learnt a ton in 1 page. Thanks so much for this Gondo.

[wencan008]

Very interested. Just got a Pro 1 so if there's a pro 1 version of this I'd be interested in that too

[nicole_loke_richards]

Very interesting!! I will keeping my eyes on this!   

I’m ok with USB mini as I don’t like to modify the case. I don’t use the USB hub on the board but I would appreciate if there’s USB A ports to fill the gaps. So even if it’s 2.0, I don’t really care. Purely for the aesthetic.

Bluetooth will be a nice complementary.


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[thornkin]

I have an fc660c so won't buy into this round, but I think this is super cool work. If you ever do one for the 660, I will be in.

[Zambumon]

I also don't care about having a USB hub built-in and wouldn't recommend USB-Cs for HHKB Pro 2. I'd just focus on making an HHKB Pro 2 PCB replacement first, and maybe an 86/87U later on.

Far future/Wishlist: a 65% custom board.

[exitfire401]

I would like at least a 2.0 hub as I usually keep an HHKB and wireless mouse together. Bluetooth would be awesome as it would allow me to make my HTPC setup wireless, but isn't exactly necessary. I would prioritize a hub over nothing at all though. Definitely interested and probably in for 2 depending on price.

[manzel]

I don't care for the USB hub or bluetooth. USB-C is available on the new version of Hasu's controller with a castellated daughter PCB. It works perfectly without filing the case.

[Gondolindrim]

I'm all in on this!

Get all over me instead you beautiful person

[Gondolindrim]

Very interested. I would like to see a version without the usb hub in addition to the regular one too for Pro1 compatibility.

I figured we'd be able to port this easily to the pro 1. However I don't know if the inside measurements of the PCB are compatible, and I have an HHKB Pro 2 here, so that is what I'll start with.

[Gondolindrim]

Very interested!

Wait

I'm flattered!

[Gondolindrim]

Oh God... Endgame is finally coming

Endgame is but a myth

[Gondolindrim]

Wow this is actually finally happening... someone did it. What probably 20+ "ic"s have tried to do over the years.

I'm just now reading through all of the accompanying PCB documentation but already so far I've learnt a ton in 1 page. Thanks so much for this Gondo.

I'm glad you took the time to read it

The documentation there is like a third of the complete thing. I released what I got for this IC and to show I'm not fooling around, but the final documentation is much bigger than that and I think we can learn many things from the problems that we find in this project. Hopefully we can develop capacitive-switch custom boards and make them more of a reality.

[Gondolindrim]

Very interested. Just got a Pro 1 so if there's a pro 1 version of this I'd be interested in that too

As I said earlier, it's an idea but I have a Pro 2 here and I'd like to stick with that because having a real-life model makes design so much easier. But yeah, we can definitely make it happen!

[Gondolindrim]

Very interesting!! I will keeping my eyes on this!   

I’m ok with USB mini as I don’t like to modify the case. I don’t use the USB hub on the board but I would appreciate if there’s USB A ports to fill the gaps. So even if it’s 2.0, I don’t really care. Purely for the aesthetic.

Bluetooth will be a nice complementary.


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From the looks of the IC responses, I think for now we will aim for cabled and USB2.0 . Bluetooth and 3.0 will come at a later date.

[Gondolindrim]

I have an fc660c so won't buy into this round, but I think this is super cool work. If you ever do one for the 660, I will be in.

I think we will def make an FC660C version, after we prove this works. Also the Leopold construction is way better than HHKB, but I couldn't get my hands on one.

[Gondolindrim]

I also don't care about having a USB hub built-in and wouldn't recommend USB-Cs for HHKB Pro 2. I'd just focus on making an HHKB Pro 2 PCB replacement first, and maybe an 86/87U later on.

Far future/Wishlist: a 65% custom board.

My roadmap here is:

- HHKB Pro 2, and then Pro 1
- Leopold FC660C
- 86/87U

I tihnk that we can cover the most used Topre boards with these options, and gian enough know-how to make custom stuff. Later down the road, when we have a solid and battle-proven design, I will definitely invest time going custom.

[Gondolindrim]

I would like at least a 2.0 hub as I usually keep an HHKB and wireless mouse together. Bluetooth would be awesome as it would allow me to make my HTPC setup wireless, but isn't exactly necessary. I would prioritize a hub over nothing at all though. Definitely interested and probably in for 2 depending on price.

To be quite fair the main barrier for a good bluetooth implementation is QMK. Now I'm not bashing QMK, let me explain.

Bluetooth is historically a sketchy technology and feature because the Bluetooth SIG (who manages licensing of BT products) has some harsh requirements for implementation, among them hefty licensing fees.

Now, QMK was able to implement BT with the Adafruit BL feather and that is amazing, but it has the issue that it is an older protocol and is not BLE; hence it dries out batteries quite fast. Why won't they support a newer protocol, you ask? Well, there is a very problematic issue between the QMK licensing and Bluetooth licensing terms, for instance the Nordic's (famous BT chip manufacturer) licensing terms.

Second, the BT protocol driver in QMK is limited to AVR chips, and honestly I'd rather wait until someone ports it out to ARM because I'm not a fan of going with an ATMEGA here. I don't know the platform ok, and I am proficient im ARM.

So I think that for now BT is out of the question, but if time comes we can make a BT version no issues.

[Gondolindrim]

I don't care for the USB hub or bluetooth. USB-C is available on the new version of Hasu's controller with a castellated daughter PCB. It works perfectly without filing the case.

Nice, I didn't know Hasu made a USBC version. The problem I find it is that the way he found to not need filing the case is by elevating the connector through the daughterboard, and that is genious just like we'd expect from the guy.

I might use his idea, but I need to give him a heads up first or else I'll be stealing it.

[moh18one]

Wow!!! This project definitely gets my attention!

[nicole_loke_richards]

Just F.Y.I, the BT module made by Yang, sold on KBDfans does have a USB C variation. I saw that on TaoBao.




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[Gondolindrim]

Just F.Y.I, the BT module made by Yang, sold on KBDfans does have a USB C variation. I saw that on TaoBao.




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Hhhmmmmmm do you have a link? The only one I was able to see was this one https://kbdfans.com/products/hhkb-ble-mod-upgrade-module?_pos=19&_sid=cf4104854&_ss=r

[nicole_loke_richards]

Just F.Y.I, the BT module made by Yang, sold on KBDfans does have a USB C variation. I saw that on TaoBao.




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Hhhmmmmmm do you have a link? The only one I was able to see was this one https://kbdfans.com/products/hhkb-ble-mod-upgrade-module?_pos=19&_sid=cf4104854&_ss=r

This is a Chinese version of AliExpress. So YDKB offer this service where you buy the BT module from him, he can mod the mini usb to USB C for you. I think in the link, he has also been experimenting with wireless charging with Qi.

https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=600934489355&spm=a21wu.9600033.recommend.1&main_itemid=590221409485&go_item_id=600934489355&pvid=d532cb6d-08cb-44d7-ba2b-b41976df12fd&utparam=%7B%22x_object_type%22%3A%22item%22%2C%22x_object_id%22%3A600934489355%7D&scm=1007.20269.110938.1002003000000001#modal=share&timeStamp=1583720863480




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[nicole_loke_richards]

Just F.Y.I, the BT module made by Yang, sold on KBDfans does have a USB C variation. I saw that on TaoBao.




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Hhhmmmmmm do you have a link? The only one I was able to see was this one https://kbdfans.com/products/hhkb-ble-mod-upgrade-module?_pos=19&_sid=cf4104854&_ss=r

This is a Chinese version of AliExpress. So YDKB offer this service where you buy the BT module from him, he can mod the mini usb to USB C for you. I think in the link, he has also been experimenting with wireless charging with Qi.

https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=600934489355&spm=a21wu.9600033.recommend.1&main_itemid=590221409485&go_item_id=600934489355&pvid=d532cb6d-08cb-44d7-ba2b-b41976df12fd&utparam=%7B%22x_object_type%22%3A%22item%22%2C%22x_object_id%22%3A600934489355%7D&scm=1007.20269.110938.1002003000000001#modal=share&timeStamp=1583720863480




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It is in mandarin...sorry. There’s pictures in the description.

Don’t get me wrong... you have support for this project. I think the success of this project will possibly open door to high end custom topre board! End game topre board is not a dream.

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[KawabataLuis]

Reeeally cool project, Even thought I don't feel the need to reprogram my hhkb, you can count me into getting one. Still early, but really looking forward to custom boards!

[Gondolindrim]

Just F.Y.I, the BT module made by Yang, sold on KBDfans does have a USB C variation. I saw that on TaoBao.




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Hhhmmmmmm do you have a link? The only one I was able to see was this one https://kbdfans.com/products/hhkb-ble-mod-upgrade-module?_pos=19&_sid=cf4104854&_ss=r

This is a Chinese version of AliExpress. So YDKB offer this service where you buy the BT module from him, he can mod the mini usb to USB C for you. I think in the link, he has also been experimenting with wireless charging with Qi.

https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/detail.html?id=600934489355&spm=a21wu.9600033.recommend.1&main_itemid=590221409485&go_item_id=600934489355&pvid=d532cb6d-08cb-44d7-ba2b-b41976df12fd&utparam=%7B%22x_object_type%22%3A%22item%22%2C%22x_object_id%22%3A600934489355%7D&scm=1007.20269.110938.1002003000000001#modal=share&timeStamp=1583720863480




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It is in mandarin...sorry. There’s pictures in the description.

Don’t get me wrong... you have support for this project. I think the success of this project will possibly open door to high end custom topre board! End game topre board is not a dream.

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Oh I absolutely wasn't thinking you were diminishing the project or whatever, I was just really curious because that Topre stuff is buried underneath the internet. I'm honestly thinking of learning mandarin so I can communicate better with the chinese community.

In any case I feel really glad you gave me the information. I think I might use a similar technique in a PCB to test USBC for now.

[LightningXI]

Very interested. I would like to see a version without the usb hub in addition to the regular one too for Pro1 compatibility.

I figured we'd be able to port this easily to the pro 1. However I don't know if the inside measurements of the PCB are compatible, and I have an HHKB Pro 2 here, so that is what I'll start with.

I am also adding my vote for Pro 1 support. I own a couple of different ones. They're my better Topre boards and I'd be ecstatic to see them used at a higher potential. I can help test if it is necessary.

As for Hasu's solution to USB C positioning, it's really genius as you said. Giving him a heads-up and asking cordially would be the right thing to do. If it didn't work out, I honestly don't mind sticking to USB Mini, since there's still a bunch of boards that I require the cable for. I'd rather really not have to sand my cases.

[Morbus]

Custom topre time gamers 👀👀

[Applet]

Wow, this looks great! Custom Topre 2020

[Dakk1d]

Great job with this and I wish you all luck going forward!
Given the choice I would buy a couple of pcb:s in an instant.

Personally I'm not interested in a usb-hub or bluetooth.
I would prefer USB-C but to be honest i don't really care.

[realxmlforce]

Wow this is some serious electronic engineering! You're my mvp today! Hoping for a realforce 88u version sometime in the future

[Gondolindrim]

Wow!!! This project definitely gets my attention!

[Gondolindrim]

Custom topre time gamers 👀👀

Wow, this looks great! Custom Topre 2020

The idea here is to get the know-how and means to do a Topre reliable PCB. Custom Topres are surely the final objective.

[Gondolindrim]

Wow this is some serious electronic engineering! You're my mvp today! Hoping for a realforce 88u version sometime in the future

I will probably make some replacements for big Topre boards in the future! However I need to have one in hand to design the board. But it's definitely on the horizon!

[Hokabuki]

This QMK compatible PCB will give me a reason to use my HHKB Pro 2 again. I’ve been meaning to get a HASU controller but this solves everything by staying USB mini and having the USB hub. I’m excited for it!

[tehfrawg]

Any chance you could partner with Niz to make QMK compatible PCBs for their boards?

The Atom68 and Micro82 would be great ones to start with since they use widely available keycap sizes.

As a recent backer of the Atom68 Alu, I would LOVE to see a QMK PCB to take it to the top level. Then we could finally have a capacitive keyboard with an aluminum case and brass plate with a QMK-enabled PCB and MX compatible sliders.

[thatguyx]

LONG time lurker, but found out about this through Man of Interest.  Having just gotten my first topre board HHKB Pro2, I've already ordered a Yang BLE Mod.  But I'd still be VERY interested in this.

I purchased the Yang BLE Mod for its Bluetooth capabilities, remapping, and battery life (over the Hasu).

However, I would pick up the Faraday60 in a heartbeat, if it could address these issues, at least for me:
- Hasu/Yang Bluetooth multidevice support is limited by Adafruit Bluetooth module (no real Bluetooth profiles for switching between more than 2 devices)
- USB 3.0 Support all the way through (would settle for 2.0 -- but at this day in age, why settle?)
- Full re-programmability (check)
- under $100 (flexible with the assumption of full Bluetooth multi-device support and USB 3.0)

[Xerpocalypse]

Absolutely 100% interested in this. I love my HHKB!

[Automata-killa]

Now this sounds intriguing, even possible to go the extra mile and use Niz switches and BKE domes, sourcing springs would be a bit more challenging

[oulongwen]

This is genuinely amazing news! Although I don't use Topre, there is no doubt that QMK support for Topre boards is more than welcome by the community!

[Eviscerae]

I've been looking for this ever since I first bought my HHKB pro 2!

I'm in!

[Gondolindrim]

Custom topre time gamers 👀👀

I will only rest when I can headshot someone in CSGO using a custom Topre HHKB PCB

[Gondolindrim]

This QMK compatible PCB will give me a reason to use my HHKB Pro 2 again. I’ve been meaning to get a HASU controller but this solves everything by staying USB mini and having the USB hub. I’m excited for it!

Let's do this! Might take a while, but we are definitely onto something here. I think that this will allow us to make replacement and programmable boards to lots of EC keyboards out there!

[Gondolindrim]

Any chance you could partner with Niz to make QMK compatible PCBs for their boards?

The Atom68 and Micro82 would be great ones to start with since they use widely available keycap sizes.

As a recent backer of the Atom68 Alu, I would LOVE to see a QMK PCB to take it to the top level. Then we could finally have a capacitive keyboard with an aluminum case and brass plate with a QMK-enabled PCB and MX compatible sliders.

Of course! I will have to make contact with NiZ and I think he will be open to some collaboration. I have received immensely good feedback from everyone and I think this will be a blast!

[Gondolindrim]

LONG time lurker, but found out about this through Man of Interest.  Having just gotten my first topre board HHKB Pro2, I've already ordered a Yang BLE Mod.  But I'd still be VERY interested in this.

I purchased the Yang BLE Mod for its Bluetooth capabilities, remapping, and battery life (over the Hasu).

However, I would pick up the Faraday60 in a heartbeat, if it could address these issues, at least for me:
- Hasu/Yang Bluetooth multidevice support is limited by Adafruit Bluetooth module (no real Bluetooth profiles for switching between more than 2 devices)
- USB 3.0 Support all the way through (would settle for 2.0 -- but at this day in age, why settle?)
- Full re-programmability (check)
- under $100 (flexible with the assumption of full Bluetooth multi-device support and USB 3.0)

Man Huey did give this project a cool visibility. I'll be forever in debt to the man.

Unfortunately there is nothing much I can do about the Adafruit Bluetooth. It's what QMK supports, and it's not for lack of good reasons, mainly licensing as I have explained on a comment above:

I would like at least a 2.0 hub as I usually keep an HHKB and wireless mouse together. Bluetooth would be awesome as it would allow me to make my HTPC setup wireless, but isn't exactly necessary. I would prioritize a hub over nothing at all though. Definitely interested and probably in for 2 depending on price.

To be quite fair the main barrier for a good bluetooth implementation is QMK. Now I'm not bashing QMK, let me explain.

Bluetooth is historically a sketchy technology and feature because the Bluetooth SIG (who manages licensing of BT products) has some harsh requirements for implementation, among them hefty licensing fees.

Now, QMK was able to implement BT with the Adafruit BL feather and that is amazing, but it has the issue that it is an older protocol and is not BLE; hence it dries out batteries quite fast. Why won't they support a newer protocol, you ask? Well, there is a very problematic issue between the QMK licensing and Bluetooth licensing terms, for instance the Nordic's (famous BT chip manufacturer) licensing terms.

Second, the BT protocol driver in QMK is limited to AVR chips, and honestly I'd rather wait until someone ports it out to ARM because I'm not a fan of going with an ATMEGA here. I don't know the platform ok, and I am proficient im ARM.

So I think that for now BT is out of the question, but if time comes we can make a BT version no issues.

Now for the USB3 I think that is a good achievement. We will probably stick with the basics for now -- USB2.0, cabled --- just to have a working concept available, but the intent here is obviously making a PCB with LOTS of features.

As for the price, I think that this first more basic PCB will be quite affordable, but the "ultimate" version might have a pretty hefty price. Time will tell, but I will surely make everything available here.

[Gondolindrim]

Absolutely 100% interested in this. I love my HHKB!

HHKB is a nice keyboard, but imagine reprogramability!

[Gondolindrim]

Now this sounds intriguing, even possible to go the extra mile and use Niz switches and BKE domes, sourcing springs would be a bit more challenging

The nice thing about Faraday is that it adds that little push we needed for customized Topre stuff. So go wild! I think that electrocapacitive stuff is waaay overdue and we need it.

[Gondolindrim]

This is genuinely amazing news! Although I don't use Topre, there is no doubt that QMK support for Topre boards is more than welcome by the community!

Maybe this is the incentive you need to try Topre? Believe me, they are amazing!

[Gondolindrim]

I've been looking for this ever since I first bought my HHKB pro 2!

I'm in!

Nice! Let's do this!

[Abhorrent Cell]

I'd buy a new HHKB Pro 2 just for this. Very exciting stuff. Topre forever.

Would also love FC660C support as well as as Plum 84.

One very distant step closer to my fantasy: Topre Southpaw 65.

[Gondolindrim]

I'd buy a new HHKB Pro 2 just for this. Very exciting stuff. Topre forever.

Would also love FC660C support as well as as Plum 84.

One very distant step closer to my fantasy: Topre Southpaw 65.

RGB Topre 65 Southpaw Gasket Mount Leaf Sprint Plate

[konstantin]

Unfortunately there is nothing much I can do about the Adafruit Bluetooth. It's what QMK supports, and it's not for lack of good reasons, mainly licensing as I have explained on a comment above:

Look into the SiLabs BT121 module. It's super easy to get working with QMK; I have a rudimentary implementation here. It communicates over UART and supports multiple BT protocols (both classic and BLE), but much like the other supported modules, it's currently limited to AVR chips.

Edit: I misspoke about it supporting multiple host devices. It doesn't. If that's a deal breaker for you, then this module is a no-go. :)

[tehfrawg]

Any chance you could partner with Niz to make QMK compatible PCBs for their boards?

The Atom68 and Micro82 would be great ones to start with since they use widely available keycap sizes.

As a recent backer of the Atom68 Alu, I would LOVE to see a QMK PCB to take it to the top level. Then we could finally have a capacitive keyboard with an aluminum case and brass plate with a QMK-enabled PCB and MX compatible sliders.

Of course! I will have to make contact with NiZ and I think he will be open to some collaboration. I have received immensely good feedback from everyone and I think this will be a blast!

That would be amazing! Between their new cases and components and your PCBs we would be well on the way to custom capacitive keyboards.

Niz boards are also priced much more competitively than Topre, which would help achieve your stated price goal.

[bakuretsu]

Any chance you could partner with Niz to make QMK compatible PCBs for their boards?

The Atom68 and Micro82 would be great ones to start with since they use widely available keycap sizes.

As a recent backer of the Atom68 Alu, I would LOVE to see a QMK PCB to take it to the top level. Then we could finally have a capacitive keyboard with an aluminum case and brass plate with a QMK-enabled PCB and MX compatible sliders.

Of course! I will have to make contact with NiZ and I think he will be open to some collaboration. I have received immensely good feedback from everyone and I think this will be a blast!

That would be amazing! Between their new cases and components and your PCBs we would be well on the way to custom capacitive keyboards.

Niz boards are also priced much more competitively than Topre, which would help achieve your stated price goal.

I just joined the Atom 68 Alu GB, too. Custom PCBs for the Atom 68 and the Micro 82 would be amazing!

[xv]

absolutely interested in this. If bluetooth were an option would the battery be user's choice or come with the board?

[Peiweisgreat]

So down for a project like this. Its going to open up a lot of topre customization that was sorely needed, for all the thockers in GH. I think having a basic version just to make sure everything is working is the best way to go about this.

1. I'm pretty sure every die hard hhkb owner would love a chance to be able to reprogram them, including myself.
2. The hub isn't really a big concern, but it sounds like you are pretty sure you will be able to include that.
3.Having bluetooth is also something secondary, but would love to see it in a later edition.
4. Also USB-C would be nice for future custom projects using this pcb, but shouldn't be something that makes into consideration for the first run of this board at all.

Hope this project gets rolling asap will be sure to pop my head back in another time to peek for updates.

[tehfrawg]

Any chance you could partner with Niz to make QMK compatible PCBs for their boards?

The Atom68 and Micro82 would be great ones to start with since they use widely available keycap sizes.

As a recent backer of the Atom68 Alu, I would LOVE to see a QMK PCB to take it to the top level. Then we could finally have a capacitive keyboard with an aluminum case and brass plate with a QMK-enabled PCB and MX compatible sliders.

Of course! I will have to make contact with NiZ and I think he will be open to some collaboration. I have received immensely good feedback from everyone and I think this will be a blast!

That would be amazing! Between their new cases and components and your PCBs we would be well on the way to custom capacitive keyboards.

Niz boards are also priced much more competitively than Topre, which would help achieve your stated price goal.

I just joined the Atom 68 Alu GB, too. Custom PCBs for the Atom 68 and the Micro 82 would be amazing!

I emailed Niz to ask about the possibility of a collaboration. The good news is that they had already been in contact with the OP yesterday, but the bad news is that it sounds like it this will not come to fruition at this time. They said they are going to keep talking though, so hopefully we will see more collaboration on custom Electrostatic Capacitive keyboards between these two parties in the future! I would love to support it.

[Gondolindrim]

Any chance you could partner with Niz to make QMK compatible PCBs for their boards?

The Atom68 and Micro82 would be great ones to start with since they use widely available keycap sizes.

As a recent backer of the Atom68 Alu, I would LOVE to see a QMK PCB to take it to the top level. Then we could finally have a capacitive keyboard with an aluminum case and brass plate with a QMK-enabled PCB and MX compatible sliders.

Of course! I will have to make contact with NiZ and I think he will be open to some collaboration. I have received immensely good feedback from everyone and I think this will be a blast!

That would be amazing! Between their new cases and components and your PCBs we would be well on the way to custom capacitive keyboards.

Niz boards are also priced much more competitively than Topre, which would help achieve your stated price goal.

I just joined the Atom 68 Alu GB, too. Custom PCBs for the Atom 68 and the Micro 82 would be amazing!

I emailed Niz to ask about the possibility of a collaboration. The good news is that they had already been in contact with the OP yesterday, but the bad news is that it sounds like it this will not come to fruition at this time. They said they are going to keep talking though, so hopefully we will see more collaboration on custom Electrostatic Capacitive keyboards between these two parties in the future! I would love to support it.

NiZ did contact me and I'm super duper happy we can collab; unfortunately the Faraday60 has not been tested yet so we need time to make sure it works.

But yes, expect collaborations in the future.

[thelaughingman]

Thanks to Manofinterest for bringing me here. As a rubber dome peasant myself I will gladly support this. Have plan to buy a HHKB BT for work and travel but this PCB will change it haha.

- My personal preference is USB-C for everything, it is the way. But fully understand if it is not available in the round 1 due to cost and fitment etc.
- Don't care about USB hub really, bluetooth is a must for me

And my pipe-dream is an Alice-layout custom Topre board. Dream on 

[noorejji]

I’ll be waiting warmly for your work on Realforce R1 and FC660C.

[AdrianMan]

This is great and looking forward to all things you will do in the topre world

1. HHKB Pro 2 is a great choice
2. Bluetooth + USB 3.1 sounds great
3. Willing to pay 60-70-80$ on the final product

At the moment for HHKB's and FC660c/980c we have hasu and yang controllers that satisfy the programmable needs.

After the HHKB Pro 2, realforce tkl's would be a great option, even a limited novatouch run, as those are loved by the community but don't get any programmable options ATM.

For multipurpose I use a hasu-usb to usb , but the need for programmable topre TKL's is very much out there.

The big improvement here I find it to be the custom designing of topre pcb's, that enables a new era, where custom topre keyboards can be made.

Ex: Custom CNC alu funky case (let's say alice style) + topre pcs with BT&VIA + Niz 2019 sliders + well tuned Costar stabs = love

[tehfrawg]

...

Ex: Custom CNC alu funky case (let's say alice style) + topre pcs with BT&VIA + Niz 2019 sliders + well tuned Costar stabs = love

Niz is using custom designed Cherry stabs for the Atom68 Alu, so hopefully those will be available for future projects like this as well!

[Applet]

If it is of any help, you are welcome to use the work from my usb3 controller, this is not very cheap but so far it is working great. You may be able to do a more cost effective solution using different chips and connectors.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=93970.0

A bluetooth and USB 3.1 controller would be fantastic and collaborations with NIZ sounds promising

joric has done work with the nRF52 and HHKB for a more battery efficient bluetooth solution, but there is still some issues

[nathanchere]

Personally I don't see a need for this when I already have Hasu's BT controller in my non-BT boards but if I didn't already have those I would be very much interested in this.

[monteyalps]

Well...I literally just bought an hhkb Type-S on yahoo.jp and was about to pull the trigger on the hasu's controller. Think I may wait now...

1. I love the usb controller and would like it. If it's not available I won't cry though (ok maybe I will, I really love the controller...) .

2. QMK YES PLEASE

3. How much?

4. USB-C is cool but at this point it's my least used connector for customs.

[Cobertt]

Love the keeping the functionality of the USB controller. That's a nice touch.

Yes please to QMK/VIA

USB-C would definitely be nice.

[Gondolindrim]

Thanks to Manofinterest for bringing me here. As a rubber dome peasant myself I will gladly support this. Have plan to buy a HHKB BT for work and travel but this PCB will change it haha.

- My personal preference is USB-C for everything, it is the way. But fully understand if it is not available in the round 1 due to cost and fitment etc.
- Don't care about USB hub really, bluetooth is a must for me

And my pipe-dream is an Alice-layout custom Topre board. Dream on 

I think that USBC, for now, is dispensable because the main feature is the capacitance sensing and activation. We are going for the "stock"  HHKB features. In the future we are surely going to add more features and the USBC!

[Gondolindrim]

I’ll be waiting warmly for your work on Realforce R1 and FC660C.

660C is the next on the line.

[Gondolindrim]

If it is of any help, you are welcome to use the work from my usb3 controller, this is not very cheap but so far it is working great. You may be able to do a more cost effective solution using different chips and connectors.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=93970.0

A bluetooth and USB 3.1 controller would be fantastic and collaborations with NIZ sounds promising

joric has done work with the nRF52 and HHKB for a more battery efficient bluetooth solution, but there is still some issues

I didn't know you had this designed. I opened the files here and it looks amazing!

I'm developing everything on KiCad and will open-source futurely. I think that I am using the same chips though, both TUSB8042 and the port monitors, so I think it shouldn't be much different!

[Gondolindrim]

Personally I don't see a need for this when I already have Hasu's BT controller in my non-BT boards but if I didn't already have those I would be very much interested in this.

The Hasu Controller was definitely a game changer. Thank you for the support!

[Gondolindrim]

Well...I literally just bought an hhkb Type-S on yahoo.jp and was about to pull the trigger on the hasu's controller. Think I may wait now...

1. I love the usb controller and would like it. If it's not available I won't cry though (ok maybe I will, I really love the controller...) .

2. QMK YES PLEASE

3. How much?

4. USB-C is cool but at this point it's my least used connector for customs.

The USB hub and AMK are a given. For now I think we are going to implement USB 2.0 and mini-B connector, but in the future we do have plans for USB3.1 .

As for the price, really difficult to tell, but my rough estimate is 60 USD for the first version.

[Gondolindrim]

Love the keeping the functionality of the USB controller. That's a nice touch.

Yes please to QMK/VIA

USB-C would definitely be nice.

I feel bad for leaving the USB controller unpopulated on the HHKB, it's a very useful feature.

Nice! Thank you for your feedback!

[Hokabuki]

Love the keeping the functionality of the USB controller. That's a nice touch.

Yes please to QMK/VIA

USB-C would definitely be nice.

I feel bad for leaving the USB controller unpopulated on the HHKB, it's a very useful feature.

Nice! Thank you for your feedback!

Agree with having the USB ports included. Mostly don’t want 2 open holes in the case but the functionality is a nice bonus.

[monteyalps]

Well...I literally just bought an hhkb Type-S on yahoo.jp and was about to pull the trigger on the hasu's controller. Think I may wait now...

1. I love the usb controller and would like it. If it's not available I won't cry though (ok maybe I will, I really love the controller...) .

2. QMK YES PLEASE

3. How much?

4. USB-C is cool but at this point it's my least used connector for customs.

The USB hub and AMK are a given. For now I think we are going to implement USB 2.0 and mini-B connector, but in the future we do have plans for USB3.1 .

As for the price, really difficult to tell, but my rough estimate is 60 USD for the first version.

Awesome! Very excited about this!!

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[Solotov]

Interested 

[mewa]

Ah, this is great! I wish such a thorough documentation was available when I first started with Conundrum (which btw has evolved to a 40% planck with our lovely switch). It took me months to get everything tested and get QMK to play together, it would've been just soo much easier haha.

Feel free to hit me up if you'd like to talk - I'll be polishing everything QMK-wise as soon as I get pre-GB round of PCBs+cases (that I'm in the process of ordering) but I've already had success on bare PCB prototype.

thock thock thock

[Gondolindrim]

So down for a project like this. Its going to open up a lot of topre customization that was sorely needed, for all the thockers in GH. I think having a basic version just to make sure everything is working is the best way to go about this.

1. I'm pretty sure every die hard hhkb owner would love a chance to be able to reprogram them, including myself.
2. The hub isn't really a big concern, but it sounds like you are pretty sure you will be able to include that.
3.Having bluetooth is also something secondary, but would love to see it in a later edition.
4. Also USB-C would be nice for future custom projects using this pcb, but shouldn't be something that makes into consideration for the first run of this board at all.

Hope this project gets rolling asap will be sure to pop my head back in another time to peek for updates.

Yeah, the first idea here really is make sure that the switch activation mechanic works before diving into fancy stuff. I think going with mini-B and 2.0 USB hub is a nice start, specially because those are the HHKB's stock features. Once we prove this concept works we will go wild.

[Gondolindrim]

Ah, this is great! I wish such a thorough documentation was available when I first started with Conundrum (which btw has evolved to a 40% planck with our lovely switch). It took me months to get everything tested and get QMK to play together, it would've been just soo much easier haha.

Feel free to hit me up if you'd like to talk - I'll be polishing everything QMK-wise as soon as I get pre-GB round of PCBs+cases (that I'm in the process of ordering) but I've already had success on bare PCB prototype.

thock thock thock

Nice! Maybe we can exchange some information. The QMK implementation might be different as the activation circuit I'm using is unique, but it would be awesome if we could overlap our efforts!

[TopreMoon]

100% interested! 50-60 definitely sounds reasonable for the simple/base version.

In order of importance of features for me:

USB 3.1
USB Hub
Bluetooth

Good luck!

[yarlah]

Will the pcb have RGB underglow? That would be awesome!

[Lormania]

So excited for this project! I would be happy with the bare minimum pcb and then offer a fancy one later.

[Gondolindrim]

100% interested! 50-60 definitely sounds reasonable for the simple/base version.

In order of importance of features for me:

USB 3.1
USB Hub
Bluetooth

Good luck!

I don't think you quite understand the USB hub feature -- USB hub can be 2.0 or 3.1. The 2.0 variant supports lower speed devices and does not support power delivery, but is really cheaper. It's the stock HHKB feature. So USB 3.1 and USB hub are the "same feature". I think that by USB3.1 you meant USB type C maybe?

Thanks for your feedback though, it's appreciated!

[Gondolindrim]

Will the pcb have RGB underglow? That would be awesome!

Not for now. Since this PCB is meant as an HHKB replacement PCB, and the HHKB cases are opaque, I don't see use for RGB right now. However, since the idea is to get the know-how and technology to make Topre custom PCBs, I think we are definitely impelemtning something of that in the future.

[MajorKoos]

...However, since the idea is to get the know-how and technology to make Topre custom PCBs, I think we are definitely impelemtning something of that in the future...

When you get round to those future plans I could do with a half-dozen replacement novatouch PCBs

[Ensaum]

...However, since the idea is to get the know-how and technology to make Topre custom PCBs, I think we are definitely impelemtning something of that in the future...

When you get round to those future plans I could do with a half-dozen replacement novatouch PCBs

OMG. If you made a QMK Novatouch pcb I might actually die. plsdo

[Gondolindrim]

...However, since the idea is to get the know-how and technology to make Topre custom PCBs, I think we are definitely impelemtning something of that in the future...

When you get round to those future plans I could do with a half-dozen replacement novatouch PCBs

...However, since the idea is to get the know-how and technology to make Topre custom PCBs, I think we are definitely impelemtning something of that in the future...

When you get round to those future plans I could do with a half-dozen replacement novatouch PCBs

OMG. If you made a QMK Novatouch pcb I might actually die. plsdo

I think that once Faraday60 is confirmedly working, we can definitely make a "roadmap" covering the most used Topre stuff:

- Leopolf F660C
- Realforces 87/87U
- Novatouch

I have also talked to NiZ and we are definitely making some collabs in the future.

It is coming guys, don't worry. Once we have this covered a LOT of options will open up for us

[1thJ]

You sir, I am interested!

[TopreMoon]

I don't think you quite understand the USB hub feature -- USB hub can be 2.0 or 3.1. The 2.0 variant supports lower speed devices and does not support power delivery, but is really cheaper. It's the stock HHKB feature. So USB 3.1 and USB hub are the "same feature". I think that by USB3.1 you meant USB type C maybe?

Thanks for your feedback though, it's appreciated!

Ah sorry - you're right! In my head, I half assume most keyboards will be using the USB-C interface moving forward, so I was more focused on the 3.1/hub aspect. I think many people looking to upgrade the PCB would gladly consider paying a little bit more for a more future proof PCB - if you're intending to keep the USB hubs, 3.1 would be amazing if feasible.

[Gondolindrim]

You sir, I am interested!

Thanks! Let's do this!

[Gondolindrim]

I don't think you quite understand the USB hub feature -- USB hub can be 2.0 or 3.1. The 2.0 variant supports lower speed devices and does not support power delivery, but is really cheaper. It's the stock HHKB feature. So USB 3.1 and USB hub are the "same feature". I think that by USB3.1 you meant USB type C maybe?

Thanks for your feedback though, it's appreciated!

Ah sorry - you're right! In my head, I half assume most keyboards will be using the USB-C interface moving forward, so I was more focused on the 3.1/hub aspect. I think many people looking to upgrade the PCB would gladly consider paying a little bit more for a more future proof PCB - if you're intending to keep the USB hubs, 3.1 would be amazing if feasible.

USB3.1 is feasible yes -- just more expensive. That is why I want to go with a stock HHKB feature set before going innovation!

[Gondolindrim]

Stream announcement

Ok guys, so in the middle of this week, somewhere around tuesday at 3PM brazilian time, I will make a stream where I write down more documentation on the Faraday. I wil have to remake some of the simulations and I can answer questions and talk to you guys about how the PCB works and the design process behind it! Feel free to tune in and ask away about the project!

[chamelemon_64]

Im 100% in on this if it runs

[tehfrawg]

Did the Stream announcement ever happen? Any other updates?

[Gondolindrim]

Did the Stream announcement ever happen? Any other updates?

It did yes. It's buried somewhere in my Twitch channel. Updates are, some reformulation of the components was needed and the PCB is still under development, it is active and will happen.

[owltro]

Count me interested! Would love QMK on my HHKB. Bom trabalho mano

[minnus]

So our idea is to make a first operating version and, futurely, an "ultimate" version will all the big boi features. In this sense, I need to know if you guys agree with this or definitely want a first PCB with bluetooth or 3.1 USB or both.

Great project!

I would definitely prefer an "ultimate" version over the base initially. I can't imagine being able to justify the cost and waste of displacing multiple PCBs. I'd be much more willing to pay extra to know any PCB I invest is the best version possible. USB 3.1, Bluetooth - those features would definitely bring the HHKB to endgame territory and would make it superior to the new Hybrids. If cost is a concern, in the grand scheme of things, I honestly believe that anyone interested in buying an aftermarket HHKB PCB wouldn't bat an eye over a $24++ difference - people gut $200++ Novatouches just for the sliders to mount their $100++ GMK keycap sets.

But perfect is the enemy of good!

I know you're working on a billion things - and projected timelines on this?

[Gondolindrim]

So our idea is to make a first operating version and, futurely, an "ultimate" version will all the big boi features. In this sense, I need to know if you guys agree with this or definitely want a first PCB with bluetooth or 3.1 USB or both.

Great project!

I would definitely prefer an "ultimate" version over the base initially. I can't imagine being able to justify the cost and waste of displacing multiple PCBs. I'd be much more willing to pay extra to know any PCB I invest is the best version possible. USB 3.1, Bluetooth - those features would definitely bring the HHKB to endgame territory and would make it superior to the new Hybrids. If cost is a concern, in the grand scheme of things, I honestly believe that anyone interested in buying an aftermarket HHKB PCB wouldn't bat an eye over a $24++ difference - people gut $200++ Novatouches just for the sliders to mount their $100++ GMK keycap sets.

But perfect is the enemy of good!

I know you're working on a billion things - and projected timelines on this?

Yeah, unfortunately all my projects were delayed and I wish I had more time to work on this.

Going for the ultimate version right away is not the best way to do it, at least in my view. That's because the most basic part -- the switch activation circuit -- is novel and, at this point, still experimental. Despite having one-switch protos that worked fine, I had to do a major rehaul of the activation circuit due to some current specifications. I am doing my best to make it the most robust and straightforward solution, but when it comes to analog sensing electronics, many variables come in place and they should all be considered. Placing components and guessing values is not an option as in most digital electronics. In short, I think that in this first moment the most important thing is to prove the concept of the switch activation circuitry, which is not simple on its own right, and then expand on that. This is called induction-based design and is a very secure and transparent way to manage a project.

Second, development of a USB 3.1 hub is not simple as 2.0 . I was re-thinking and this USB hub gave me an opportunity to do an "unified USB hub" daughterboard that could be open-sourced, much like ai03's Unified Daughterboard which latest version (C3) is of my authorship. This open up the possibility of other makers offering USB hub on their keyboards simply using that daugherboard. I also think that this opens up the possibility of expanding the options for the Faraday60. Initially what I was thinking on doing was offering a basic PCB with USB2.0 hub only, and then the more sophisticated PCB with USB3.1 . However, as I realized Faraday and the hub PCB are independent, one can easily make both daughterboards compatible with the motherboard. This means that it's better offering a USB2.0 hub DB, a USB3.1 hub DB, a basic motherboard and a more complete motherboard, so that the user can choose which to buy and upgrade accordingly. I think that this opens up a possibility, because as far as I have gathered, people are completely fine with a USB2.0 hub but would like bluetooth. So I think that there is no reason in tying the feature-rich version of the motherboard with the USB3.1 .

Third, I want to adapt Hasu's idea for USB-C and implement it on the basic PCB, and hopefully I can add both USBC and mini-B support for those that consider stock features better. I am however not sure on how to go about this, because the little castellated PCB needed is not simple to solder and I don't feel comfortable leaving that to the user to solder.

Finally, I'm waiting for QMK support on ARM Bluetooth; I received word from the developers in the QMK Discord server and apparently this is not a top priority. So I think that this initial version will use ARM, which is better, faster and cheaper, and the BL version will use AVR. Using ARM is a big deal for me because I think that it is the future of this hobby that people will eventually ditch AVR and start using ARMs. ARMs are also way cheaper than AVR's; for instance, STM32F072CBT6 costs US$1.1 at 100+ units while ATMEGA32U4 costs US$2.8 at 100+ units, nearly a third the price. This saves up some budget for me to use top-quality components in the sensing circuitry, where they matter most.

All in all, there are a lot of ideas going into this project and that is exactly why I chose HHKB Pro 2 to start, not FC660C or Realforces. It opens up a lot of fronts in custom keyboard design which I think will benefit the community as a whole, as I am going to open-source all of this. That way other makers can use the ideas and circuits to offer better products. But, then again, lots of things to consider and I'm going one thing at a time. So I won't have a precise timeline on when I am going to finish, but be certain I am in complete passion about this PCB and I intend fully to see it through.

[nastrovje]

I love you

[Gondolindrim]

I love you

And I love you

[mbsurfer]

Very interested in something like this. I will continue to watch for updates

[eratyke]

Fantastic! New here, but I'll be watching this!

[equalunique]

How very exciting

[hofstee]

I'd be interested in a future version using USB-C over Mini USB, and maybe Bluetooth LE. I would want to use it in the norbauer hhkb case whenever that gets around to being released. Unless there's some reason to switch from a stock HHKB PCB to this (I already have a Hasu BT controller) I don't really see a reason for myself to get this one yet. The big things missing if this gets made would mainly be sliders and springs, I think. BKE domes at least can serve as domes for now, and some of the previous aluminum Topre cases had the housings built-in to the top of the case.

Look forward to seeing updates.

[Gondolindrim]

I'd be interested in a future version using USB-C over Mini USB, and maybe Bluetooth LE. I would want to use it in the norbauer hhkb case whenever that gets around to being released. Unless there's some reason to switch from a stock HHKB PCB to this (I already have a Hasu BT controller) I don't really see a reason for myself to get this one yet. The big things missing if this gets made would mainly be sliders and springs, I think. BKE domes at least can serve as domes for now, and some of the previous aluminum Topre cases had the housings built-in to the top of the case.

Look forward to seeing updates.

Indeed, I think that for people that already have the Hasu controller this PCB is redundant. The idea here is not so much make a PCB for HHKB per se, but acquire know-how and methods to build:

- Custom Topre PCBs;
- Integrate USB hubs in a unified daughterboard;
- Making USB 3.1 hubs;
- Convert USB mini PCBs into USB type C;

As for the hardware (domes, housings, sliders) I am hoping I can work with some makers to make those a reality. Unfortunately, for now, all we can have are replacement PCBs for people that already have those pieces.

[Nizkeyboard]

I'd be interested in a future version using USB-C over Mini USB, and maybe Bluetooth LE. I would want to use it in the norbauer hhkb case whenever that gets around to being released. Unless there's some reason to switch from a stock HHKB PCB to this (I already have a Hasu BT controller) I don't really see a reason for myself to get this one yet. The big things missing if this gets made would mainly be sliders and springs, I think. BKE domes at least can serve as domes for now, and some of the previous aluminum Topre cases had the housings built-in to the top of the case.

Look forward to seeing updates.

Indeed, I think that for people that already have the Hasu controller this PCB is redundant. The idea here is not so much make a PCB for HHKB per se, but acquire know-how and methods to build:

- Custom Topre PCBs;
- Integrate USB hubs in a unified daughterboard;
- Making USB 3.1 hubs;
- Convert USB mini PCBs into USB type C;

As for the hardware (domes, housings, sliders) I am hoping I can work with some makers to make those a reality. Unfortunately, for now, all we can have are replacement PCBs for people that already have those pieces.

We can provide domes, housings, sliders, and any other parts if needed.

[1thJ]

I'd be interested in a future version using USB-C over Mini USB, and maybe Bluetooth LE. I would want to use it in the norbauer hhkb case whenever that gets around to being released. Unless there's some reason to switch from a stock HHKB PCB to this (I already have a Hasu BT controller) I don't really see a reason for myself to get this one yet. The big things missing if this gets made would mainly be sliders and springs, I think. BKE domes at least can serve as domes for now, and some of the previous aluminum Topre cases had the housings built-in to the top of the case.

Look forward to seeing updates.

Indeed, I think that for people that already have the Hasu controller this PCB is redundant. The idea here is not so much make a PCB for HHKB per se, but acquire know-how and methods to build:

- Custom Topre PCBs;
- Integrate USB hubs in a unified daughterboard;
- Making USB 3.1 hubs;
- Convert USB mini PCBs into USB type C;

As for the hardware (domes, housings, sliders) I am hoping I can work with some makers to make those a reality. Unfortunately, for now, all we can have are replacement PCBs for people that already have those pieces.

We can provide domes, housings, sliders, and any other parts if needed.

Take my money!

[Kalibrrr]

The QMK and possibly VIA compatibility is the most important part of this. Following this would be the usb-c and the 3.1 hub. I think most people don't really utilise it much but its nice for times when you would want to use this. I am definitely in for this, very excited

[Gondolindrim]

Today at around 5PM BRT -- in approximately 5 hours -- I will make a design stream disclosing the newest developments in the Faraday60 project and how I intend to go through with it.

Please join me if you have any questions or suggestions, or if you simply want me at the design process!

http://twitch.tv/gondolindrim_

[myyrddraal]

I'd be interested in a future version using USB-C over Mini USB, and maybe Bluetooth LE. I would want to use it in the norbauer hhkb case whenever that gets around to being released. Unless there's some reason to switch from a stock HHKB PCB to this (I already have a Hasu BT controller) I don't really see a reason for myself to get this one yet. The big things missing if this gets made would mainly be sliders and springs, I think. BKE domes at least can serve as domes for now, and some of the previous aluminum Topre cases had the housings built-in to the top of the case.

Look forward to seeing updates.

Indeed, I think that for people that already have the Hasu controller this PCB is redundant. The idea here is not so much make a PCB for HHKB per se, but acquire know-how and methods to build:

- Custom Topre PCBs;
- Integrate USB hubs in a unified daughterboard;
- Making USB 3.1 hubs;
- Convert USB mini PCBs into USB type C;

As for the hardware (domes, housings, sliders) I am hoping I can work with some makers to make those a reality. Unfortunately, for now, all we can have are replacement PCBs for people that already have those pieces.

We can provide domes, housings, sliders, and any other parts if needed.

I bought from them the parts before ( also a full Atom66) and used them in a build where i experimented with the sensing, but never finished the project (tried to make a columnar staggered as that is my area of interest).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[myyrddraal]

I'd be interested in a future version using USB-C over Mini USB, and maybe Bluetooth LE. I would want to use it in the norbauer hhkb case whenever that gets around to being released. Unless there's some reason to switch from a stock HHKB PCB to this (I already have a Hasu BT controller) I don't really see a reason for myself to get this one yet. The big things missing if this gets made would mainly be sliders and springs, I think. BKE domes at least can serve as domes for now, and some of the previous aluminum Topre cases had the housings built-in to the top of the case.

Look forward to seeing updates.

Indeed, I think that for people that already have the Hasu controller this PCB is redundant. The idea here is not so much make a PCB for HHKB per se, but acquire know-how and methods to build:

- Custom Topre PCBs;
- Integrate USB hubs in a unified daughterboard;
- Making USB 3.1 hubs;
- Convert USB mini PCBs into USB type C;

As for the hardware (domes, housings, sliders) I am hoping I can work with some makers to make those a reality. Unfortunately, for now, all we can have are replacement PCBs for people that already have those pieces.

We can provide domes, housings, sliders, and any other parts if needed.

I bought from them the parts before ( also a full Atom66) and used them in a build where i experimented with the sensing, but never finished the project (tried to make a columnar staggered as that is my area of interest).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh, main point wanted to tell is, that the 2019 revision of the switch parts is superb!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hokabuki]

I wasn’t able to watch the stream. What’s the latest developments on this and how it will proceed?

[Galvo]

Personally I'm not interested in the HHKB one, but count me in for multiple copies if a FC660C/R87U!

- QMK/VIA yesss please
- USB-C would be nice

[Gondolindrim]

I wasn’t able to watch the stream. What’s the latest developments on this and how it will proceed?

Ok so here goes a summary of what I the changes I announced and partially designed last stream:

• Sensing circuit operation amplifier. In the first version and the documentation, the operation amplifier I am using is the TL081, which is a fast enough and cheap, reliable opamp that is pretty much standard. It does however present some issues:
  
  
  • It consumes too much current, approximately 13mA per unit. Considering that I need to imbue each sensing circuit for every single switch, meaning 60-100 of them, this circuit with TL081 is not scalable -- 100 of them would require 1.3A which is well above the USB2.0 current delivery capabilities.
  • It is not small enough. Each switch gives me a 19.05x19.05mm (approximately 363 mm²) space to work with. In that space I have to somehow fit an AM modulator circuit, an AM de-modulator circuit, a rectifier circuit, a filter circuit, a comparator circuit and an optocoupler. As you can guess that is a pretty limiting space and I need the smallest components I can use. The most space-efficient way to deploy TL081 is using the quad-package TL084 in SOIC-14 packages, which are each almost a centimeter wide. TL084 is also available in TSSOP-8, but it is considerably more expensive. Remember that we need 100+ units, so every cent in opamp cost means a dollar more that I had to sacrifice somewhere on the PCB or raising the end price ;
  • It requires ±15V. Since the TL081 has a very bad peak output voltage swing, I used it with a ±15V power source, allowing for ±10V output swing with good linearity. Problem now being that ±15V have to be implemented on the PCB by using the USB 5V supply,  probably through switched-mode converters and some power filters which honestly, in a PCB like this, are just too much.
  
  In order to solve this problem I tried using the TL061, which is an opamp from the same family as the TL081 but with FET input and optimized for low- and micro-power applications, solving the current draw issue. Nevertheless TL061 was way too slow and could not keep up with the circuit, so in a second version I had to relax the 100µs settling time requirement and use 200µs, leaving me quite uncomfortable because that has the serious risk of affecting the activation circuit perceived latency. Still, 100µs more in the sensing time is not that big of a deal I guess: the major problem really is the space, as TL064s are not available in TSSOP-14 package (at least not LCSC) and using SOIC-14 is something I want to avoid. So now for the third version I am using LM324, which is available in a ridiculously small QFN-16 package and is even cheaper than both TL084 and TL064.
  
• Sensing circuit diodes. I was using the 1N4148W, a silicon diode which is cheap, available, small, and at this point pretty much a standard among keyboard makers. There are two issues with this diode.
  
  
  • Space. 1N4148 is not small enough and there are better, smaller alternatives.
  • Performance. Being a small-signal sillicon diode, 1N4148 is not fast enough to keep up with 100kHz+ large swing wave signals.
  
  So because of this I decided to use BAT54:
  
  • It comes in a dual-package SOD-523, meaning it’s both less than half the size and half the price;
  • It also is a Schottky diode, so it is faster, more reliable, has better parasitic performance and less forward voltage, despite that does not mattering that much due to the precision-diode rectifier feedback topology used;
• Wien bridge oscillator topology. To generate the 100kHz sine wave, I was using a Bubba Oscillator topology, which is a very common quadrature-phase signal rotation oscillator. The LM324 was however unable to work with this topology because its output impedance was just too high at 100kHz, making it impossible to reliably set the circuit to generate a 100kHz sine wave with a precision that I am comfortable with -- with every design I have to consider the components tolerances, because oscillator circuits tend to be highly sensible to that. To replace the Bubba topology it I considered a myriad of other oscillator topologies, ranging from Colpitts crystal oscillators to solid-state ones. I ended up deciding to just use a good, albeit difficult to work with, oscillator topology known as a Wien Bridge oscillator. It still uses an operational amplifier, but this time around I got one suited for the job, the TLVx316, which is better than LM324 in every aspect but way more expensive. Regardless, since I need only one for the oscillator and I already saved some budget by adopting the LM324, this is acceptable. The dual-package TLV2316 allows me to integrate both the oscillator and a third order Butterworth-based filter topology to further clean up the output wave. I was able to produce (in the simulation, at least) a 0.5% THD sine wave, which is very good.

All in all I'm pretty happy with the direction that this project is taking and I feel vey proud I was able to make it this far. Everything works like expected and I will probably be polishing things out and starting the PCB shortly.

[Applet]

I wasn’t able to watch the stream. What’s the latest developments on this and how it will proceed?

Ok so here goes a summary of what I the changes I announced and partially designed last stream:

Keep up the good work! 

Very exciting!

[MdotMaxson]

I tried to use galvanic isolators once before. They claim to offer high speed isolation.... but even with absurd levels of PCB designing to isolate the noice, they scream in an EMC chamber. No product can realistically use those and pass things like FCC and CE compliance. It was so bad my wireless mouse in my lab would lose connection when they were transmitting data

[Gondolindrim]

I tried to use galvanic isolators once before. They claim to offer high speed isolation.... but even with absurd levels of PCB designing to isolate the noice, they scream in an EMC chamber. No product can realistically use those and pass things like FCC and CE compliance. It was so bad my wireless mouse in my lab would lose connection when they were transmitting data

The isolation is done through optocouplers, and those are very straighforward. I don't see an issue, never had an issue with them at least

[2truth]

I currently own a HHKB BT, honestly would be interested if this would fit in my housing. I bought it and wasn't aware of the lack of programmability or utilization of the mini-usb hub for anything more than power. I would also love to make it a USB-C hub for the ability to purchase more compatible custom cables. Not sure if my casing is any different besides the battery slot on top & the USB port residing on the left side of the pcb. I could probably dremel out a hole anyway. Let me know if I'm far off here.

I'll be watching anyway, good work!

[Gondolindrim]

I wasn’t able to watch the stream. What’s the latest developments on this and how it will proceed?

Ok so here goes a summary of what I the changes I announced and partially designed last stream:

Keep up the good work! 

Very exciting!

Thanks man, will do 

[LostInInaka]

Wait....will this work for the JIS version too (did I miss the announcement of this somewhere else in the thread)?

[Gondolindrim]

Wait....will this work for the JIS version too (did I miss the announcement of this somewhere else in the thread)?

To be fair I have no idea. I am using an HHKB Pro 2 to measure and fit everything, but I don't know if the PCBs are compatible. I could try to make it "universal" by adjusting things here and there

[Hokabuki]

I wasn’t able to watch the stream. What’s the latest developments on this and how it will proceed?

Ok so here goes a summary of what I the changes I announced and partially designed last stream:

• Sensing circuit operation amplifier. In the first version and the documentation, the operation amplifier I am using is the TL081, which is a fast enough and cheap, reliable opamp that is pretty much standard. It does however present some issues:
  
  
  • It consumes too much current, approximately 13mA per unit. Considering that I need to imbue each sensing circuit for every single switch, meaning 60-100 of them, this circuit with TL081 is not scalable -- 100 of them would require 1.3A which is well above the USB2.0 current delivery capabilities.
  • It is not small enough. Each switch gives me a 19.05x19.05mm (approximately 363 mm²) space to work with. In that space I have to somehow fit an AM modulator circuit, an AM de-modulator circuit, a rectifier circuit, a filter circuit, a comparator circuit and an optocoupler. As you can guess that is a pretty limiting space and I need the smallest components I can use. The most space-efficient way to deploy TL081 is using the quad-package TL084 in SOIC-14 packages, which are each almost a centimeter wide. TL084 is also available in TSSOP-8, but it is considerably more expensive. Remember that we need 100+ units, so every cent in opamp cost means a dollar more that I had to sacrifice somewhere on the PCB or raising the end price ;
  • It requires ±15V. Since the TL081 has a very bad peak output voltage swing, I used it with a ±15V power source, allowing for ±10V output swing with good linearity. Problem now being that ±15V have to be implemented on the PCB by using the USB 5V supply,  probably through switched-mode converters and some power filters which honestly, in a PCB like this, are just too much.
  
  In order to solve this problem I tried using the TL061, which is an opamp from the same family as the TL081 but with FET input and optimized for low- and micro-power applications, solving the current draw issue. Nevertheless TL061 was way too slow and could not keep up with the circuit, so in a second version I had to relax the 100µs settling time requirement and use 200µs, leaving me quite uncomfortable because that has the serious risk of affecting the activation circuit perceived latency. Still, 100µs more in the sensing time is not that big of a deal I guess: the major problem really is the space, as TL064s are not available in TSSOP-14 package (at least not LCSC) and using SOIC-14 is something I want to avoid. So now for the third version I am using LM324, which is available in a ridiculously small QFN-16 package and is even cheaper than both TL084 and TL064.
  
• Sensing circuit diodes. I was using the 1N4148W, a silicon diode which is cheap, available, small, and at this point pretty much a standard among keyboard makers. There are two issues with this diode.
  
  
  • Space. 1N4148 is not small enough and there are better, smaller alternatives.
  • Performance. Being a small-signal sillicon diode, 1N4148 is not fast enough to keep up with 100kHz+ large swing wave signals.
  
  So because of this I decided to use BAT54:
  
  • It comes in a dual-package SOD-523, meaning it’s both less than half the size and half the price;
  • It also is a Schottky diode, so it is faster, more reliable, has better parasitic performance and less forward voltage, despite that does not mattering that much due to the precision-diode rectifier feedback topology used;
• Wien bridge oscillator topology. To generate the 100kHz sine wave, I was using a Bubba Oscillator topology, which is a very common quadrature-phase signal rotation oscillator. The LM324 was however unable to work with this topology because its output impedance was just too high at 100kHz, making it impossible to reliably set the circuit to generate a 100kHz sine wave with a precision that I am comfortable with -- with every design I have to consider the components tolerances, because oscillator circuits tend to be highly sensible to that. To replace the Bubba topology it I considered a myriad of other oscillator topologies, ranging from Colpitts crystal oscillators to solid-state ones. I ended up deciding to just use a good, albeit difficult to work with, oscillator topology known as a Wien Bridge oscillator. It still uses an operational amplifier, but this time around I got one suited for the job, the TLVx316, which is better than LM324 in every aspect but way more expensive. Regardless, since I need only one for the oscillator and I already saved some budget by adopting the LM324, this is acceptable. The dual-package TLV2316 allows me to integrate both the oscillator and a third order Butterworth-based filter topology to further clean up the output wave. I was able to produce (in the simulation, at least) a 0.5% THD sine wave, which is very good.

All in all I'm pretty happy with the direction that this project is taking and I feel vey proud I was able to make it this far. Everything works like expected and I will probably be polishing things out and starting the PCB shortly.

Did not expect it to be so detailed and technical. I know some of those words. Haha keyboard go brrrrr

[Gondolindrim]

I wasn’t able to watch the stream. What’s the latest developments on this and how it will proceed?

Ok so here goes a summary of what I the changes I announced and partially designed last stream:

• Sensing circuit operation amplifier. In the first version and the documentation, the operation amplifier I am using is the TL081, which is a fast enough and cheap, reliable opamp that is pretty much standard. It does however present some issues:
  
  
  • It consumes too much current, approximately 13mA per unit. Considering that I need to imbue each sensing circuit for every single switch, meaning 60-100 of them, this circuit with TL081 is not scalable -- 100 of them would require 1.3A which is well above the USB2.0 current delivery capabilities.
  • It is not small enough. Each switch gives me a 19.05x19.05mm (approximately 363 mm²) space to work with. In that space I have to somehow fit an AM modulator circuit, an AM de-modulator circuit, a rectifier circuit, a filter circuit, a comparator circuit and an optocoupler. As you can guess that is a pretty limiting space and I need the smallest components I can use. The most space-efficient way to deploy TL081 is using the quad-package TL084 in SOIC-14 packages, which are each almost a centimeter wide. TL084 is also available in TSSOP-8, but it is considerably more expensive. Remember that we need 100+ units, so every cent in opamp cost means a dollar more that I had to sacrifice somewhere on the PCB or raising the end price ;
  • It requires ±15V. Since the TL081 has a very bad peak output voltage swing, I used it with a ±15V power source, allowing for ±10V output swing with good linearity. Problem now being that ±15V have to be implemented on the PCB by using the USB 5V supply,  probably through switched-mode converters and some power filters which honestly, in a PCB like this, are just too much.
  
  In order to solve this problem I tried using the TL061, which is an opamp from the same family as the TL081 but with FET input and optimized for low- and micro-power applications, solving the current draw issue. Nevertheless TL061 was way too slow and could not keep up with the circuit, so in a second version I had to relax the 100µs settling time requirement and use 200µs, leaving me quite uncomfortable because that has the serious risk of affecting the activation circuit perceived latency. Still, 100µs more in the sensing time is not that big of a deal I guess: the major problem really is the space, as TL064s are not available in TSSOP-14 package (at least not LCSC) and using SOIC-14 is something I want to avoid. So now for the third version I am using LM324, which is available in a ridiculously small QFN-16 package and is even cheaper than both TL084 and TL064.
  
• Sensing circuit diodes. I was using the 1N4148W, a silicon diode which is cheap, available, small, and at this point pretty much a standard among keyboard makers. There are two issues with this diode.
  
  
  • Space. 1N4148 is not small enough and there are better, smaller alternatives.
  • Performance. Being a small-signal sillicon diode, 1N4148 is not fast enough to keep up with 100kHz+ large swing wave signals.
  
  So because of this I decided to use BAT54:
  
  • It comes in a dual-package SOD-523, meaning it’s both less than half the size and half the price;
  • It also is a Schottky diode, so it is faster, more reliable, has better parasitic performance and less forward voltage, despite that does not mattering that much due to the precision-diode rectifier feedback topology used;
• Wien bridge oscillator topology. To generate the 100kHz sine wave, I was using a Bubba Oscillator topology, which is a very common quadrature-phase signal rotation oscillator. The LM324 was however unable to work with this topology because its output impedance was just too high at 100kHz, making it impossible to reliably set the circuit to generate a 100kHz sine wave with a precision that I am comfortable with -- with every design I have to consider the components tolerances, because oscillator circuits tend to be highly sensible to that. To replace the Bubba topology it I considered a myriad of other oscillator topologies, ranging from Colpitts crystal oscillators to solid-state ones. I ended up deciding to just use a good, albeit difficult to work with, oscillator topology known as a Wien Bridge oscillator. It still uses an operational amplifier, but this time around I got one suited for the job, the TLVx316, which is better than LM324 in every aspect but way more expensive. Regardless, since I need only one for the oscillator and I already saved some budget by adopting the LM324, this is acceptable. The dual-package TLV2316 allows me to integrate both the oscillator and a third order Butterworth-based filter topology to further clean up the output wave. I was able to produce (in the simulation, at least) a 0.5% THD sine wave, which is very good.

All in all I'm pretty happy with the direction that this project is taking and I feel vey proud I was able to make it this far. Everything works like expected and I will probably be polishing things out and starting the PCB shortly.

Did not expect it to be so detailed and technical. I know some of those words. Haha keyboard go brrrrr

Haha I did it because the stream indeed was very technical and at this point it is what it is. But I think that soon we'll have some better palatable streams

[foxtrap614]

I can't believe this is real this is awesome.

[blacksimon]

please take my money, but first tell me how many monie this is.. thank

[ycanales]

I’m not sure if I already commented in this post but I’m in!

I own a FC660C, a Novatouch, an HHKB Pro 2 and soon a Niz Atom, so  I’m super interested.

[Gondolindrim]

I can't believe this is real this is awesome.

It's real. It's awesome. It's sexy. It's brazilian.

Might as well call it Ricardo Milos at this point

[Gondolindrim]

please take my money, but first tell me how many monie this is.. thank

Aim is 60-80 'murica monies. Now get back there and review this thread properly. Thank

[Gondolindrim]

I’m not sure if I already commented in this post but I’m in!

I own a FC660C, a Novatouch, an HHKB Pro 2 and soon a Niz Atom, so  I’m super interested.

FC660C is the next in the list.

Also because I need one.

[BoofyMoon]

Really excited to see that custom ec keyboards are getting somewhere. An Ortho ec board is my dream.i gotta study the documentation once you are done!

[Heist Morty]

so... Topre alice when?

[Gondolindrim]

so... Topre alice when?

This is endgame. Im currently talking to xondat about possibly making something like this

[Heist Morty]

so... Topre alice when?

This is endgame. Im currently talking to xondat about possibly making something like this

[mbsurfer]

so... Topre alice when?

This is endgame. Im currently talking to xondat about possibly making something like this

Oh my yes.

[Gondolindrim]

Hey guys, sorry for the lack of updates recently.

I have come across some plateaus in the development of this PCB so I left it alone for a second. Hilariously yesterday I was in a call in the TopClack Discord and Lagelandia gave me a piece of his genius and helped me figure it out.

Sleepness night tonight, some personal issues, so I just picked this up again and might have finished the circuitry design. I am retaking the project as I can, and might do some design streams in the future.

If you guys want to keep up with me and my projects, please consider joining the AcheronProject Discord server: https://discord.gg/2Vc52e2

[poor yorick]

Never done this before and generally find the replies like "in" and "can't wait" kind of pointless, but since this seems to have lost some momentum I wanted to say that I have a yang controller, tmk compatible, and still would buy this asap. Easily my most anticipated IC. The potential for custom capacitive pcb's and eventually cases is actual innovation and change in a sea of "gAsKEt mOuNT 65%/75%" Can't wait for a good wkl or standard 60 capacitive with hhkb sliders and domes.

[Gondolindrim]

Never done this before and generally find the replies like "in" and "can't wait" kind of pointless, but since this seems to have lost some momentum I wanted to say that I have a yang controller, tmk compatible, and still would buy this asap. Easily my most anticipated IC. The potential for custom capacitive pcb's and eventually cases is actual innovation and change in a sea of "gAsKEt mOuNT 65%/75%" Can't wait for a good wkl or standard 60 capacitive with hhkb sliders and domes.

This has absolutely not lost momentum; I'm still actively designing for and incorporating into it. The issue is that I recently had some ****ty life situations happen and I'm just detoxing from the hobby for a while.

There are also behind-the-scenes stuff I can't talk about right now but in a couple months you guys will hear from this again!

[2Moons]

It looks like Ramon has been hard at work on making QMK work with Niz switches. Here is a blog post from July 2020: https://ramonimbao.github.io/niz-ec60/ I think he's close to finishing Niz compatibility with QMK from reading the blog post.

[Applet]

Stay safe man, no stress. Life is more important than the keeb-hobby. Really appreciate the work 

[perry4761]

I'm hella late to the party, but holy hell this is exciting stuff! Sorry to hear about your personal problems, hopefully you can catch a break soon The hobby can wait, take care!

[AristideTorchia]

Hi Gondolindrim,

Definitely count me in, it sounds like THE thing that needs to happen to HHKB community.

While I fully understand the desire to make this primarily for the HHKB 2 Pro, I'd will add my three cents in trying to reason that a version for the Pro 3 (Classic) / Hybrid would be the way to go, perhaps alongside the Pro 2.
This generation, started earlier this year is probably going to stay here for the next decade or more and it'd be worth to future-proof a project as precious as what you're attempting.

I own HHKB Hybrid, use Macintosh ecosystem and I'm about to purchase Norbauer's Heavy Grail, which led me here as part of my research for the end game that could combine all the best features into one.
Personally, I'm of an opinion there's no going back from the Hybrid's extremely convenient functionality of multi-device bluetooth, layout mapping and wireless operation with future-proofing convenience of USB-C.
Only its plain housing and unsightly battery bump drags it down aesthetically.

For that reason, I'd say my personal priorities and an end-game feature-set would be:

- layout mapping / ala the new HHKB Keymap Tool, perhaps extended beyond stock limitations so that Q,Z,X keys etc aren't blocked on the function layer.
- USB-C / HHKB Pro 3 layout
- Bluetooth / 4-device rapid-switching
- Battery / internal lithium with enough charge to hold its ground through a few weeks of heavy use.

I'd be happy to splash $100 or so for such a little wunderkind.

[treeleaf64]

I am giving this the stamp of love

[poor yorick]

This has absolutely not lost momentum; I'm still actively designing for and incorporating into it. The issue is that I recently had some ****ty life situations happen and I'm just detoxing from the hobby for a while.

There are also behind-the-scenes stuff I can't talk about right now but in a couple months you guys will hear from this again!

Thanks for your patience, and I apologize for the tone of my comment. I'm very sorry to hear things have been tough recently, and hope you are in a good place mentally and physically. I regret implying that this hobby should somehow be a priority over such clearly more significant issues. Please know that you have my utmost respect and support, and when this project comes to fruition, you will certainly have my dollars!

[TalksToChalk]

Nice

[beekey]

Very cool. I don't need a USB hub and never user RGB. Bluetooth optional like the Skog might reduce cost for those not wanting it. I would get it if offered.

[Freeaboo]

The modularity of the circuitry is awesome.  With your open-source track record, Gondo, I would hope this would be made public. That, combined with the affordable and MX-compatible "switches" from NiZ makes me very hopeful and excited for the future of custom EC boards. Good luck with this project, hope it's the stepping stone we need to make quality Topre customs not only accessible but existant too!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Gondolindrim]

The modularity of the circuitry is awesome.  With your open-source track record, Gondo, I would hope this would be made public. That, combined with the affordable and MX-compatible "switches" from NiZ makes me very hopeful and excited for the future of custom EC boards. Good luck with this project, hope it's the stepping stone we need to make quality Topre customs not only accessible but existant too!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Everything will be open sourced, and I'm already talking to NiZ to make everything compatible with his stuff. The idea is to make it so that makers can offer a single plate that supports MX and "Faraday style" electrocapacitives

[Freeaboo]

The modularity of the circuitry is awesome.  With your open-source track record, Gondo, I would hope this would be made public. That, combined with the affordable and MX-compatible "switches" from NiZ makes me very hopeful and excited for the future of custom EC boards. Good luck with this project, hope it's the stepping stone we need to make quality Topre customs not only accessible but existant too!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Everything will be open sourced, and I'm already talking to NiZ to make everything compatible with his stuff. The idea is to make it so that makers can offer a single plate that supports MX and "Faraday style" electrocapacitives

Sounds amazing.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[vladimir108]

Guys, do you know about this?
"Hacking HHKB Professional Classic" https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106213.0

[foysauce_]

Is this project still active? I am desperate to be able to use QMK with my HHKB

[joshuarubin]

Is this project still active? I am desperate to be able to use QMK with my HHKB

You can always try to use a hasu controller in the interim.
(not in stock atm: https://1upkeyboards.com/shop/controllers/hasu-hhkb-usb-controller-usb-c/ but mine is working fine with qmk even though it only mentions tmk)

[Havattack]

I'm pretty sure the number one reason topre is "scarce" is becasue they use rubber domes, and are not "mechanical".. (Not saying that's a negative for me, but I think most people perceive it that way)

[ban25]

Subbed!

[Obamas Mama]

so... Topre alice when?

This is endgame. Im currently talking to xondat about possibly making something like this

Oof. If you can get this done with mx stabs I'd pay $400 just for the pcb.. maybe more who knows.

[igooo33333]

Is this dead?

[Gondolindrim]

Is this dead?

No. The first version of the circuit was too complicated and not very scalable, so I am desgning a second version that uses a dedicated chip for capacitance sensing.

I will give more information as I have more results to show.

[menuhin]

More

Is this dead?

No. The first version of the circuit was too complicated and not very scalable, so I am desgning a second version that

uses a dedicated chip for capacitance sensing.

I will give more information as I have more results to show.

 

[touch]

A bit late to the party, but it's great to see this is still alive and well! Would love to see JIS support!

[ManiacMarc]

This is a pretty cool idea!

[Gondolindrim]

Ok guys, small update.

The first prototype works. However, the strategy I used is really not scalable.

I am currently working with the QMK people to bring this to a reality on a better format. A new prototype with a new strategy has been ordered.

[wencan008]

Glad to hear this project is still going, best of luck with the new strategy

[Gondolindrim]

Glad to hear this project is still going, best of luck with the new strategy

I will make a stream tonight on my channel showing the new strategy. It will probably happen at 7PM BRT at http://twitch.tv/gondolindrim_

[Applet]

Oooh, yes! Great to hear this is progressing  !

[Versaknight]

wow this looks great!

[stotle.caps]

i will be looking over this project, really need to reprogram my hhkb pro 2 so they would have a secondary function layer for media controls, good job mr.gondo

[DeMechanica]

So hyped for this! I’d finally get a Topre. Nice work man!

[shutuphamish]

id buy like 6 pro 2 pcbs if its accessible to aus

[hseenam]

count me in!

[vladimir108]

Do you know about this? It's sold out anyway:
https://www.jels.au/products/gb-usb-c-hhkb-controller?variant=41738239377562

[Gondolindrim]

Do you know about this? It's sold out anyway:
https://www.jels.au/products/gb-usb-c-hhkb-controller?variant=41738239377562

I am aware of a couple controllers around, yes

[KbJohn911]

This is a godsend for HHKB owners like me

[thocciness]

I support anything Topre. This is up my alley!