Phantom Custom Keyboard Group Buy (CLOSED)

[whiskerBox]

I also found this site that makes custom bolts for skateboards and BMX bikes they dont have quite as many choices but they price is great 10 - 25 cents a bolt. much cheaper.
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 34790[/ATTACH]http://www.mudgehardware.com/

But that got me thinking about custom skateboard screws and how cheap they were so I thought I would check out CCS.com where I found these. Now they aren't as nice as the ones previously posted but I think that they would be more than good enough for this and they come in a variety of colors. Most of them come in a kit of 8 (for a skateboard) so you would have to buy multiple kits but they are like $4 a kit so very reasonable.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 34791[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 34792[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 34793[/ATTACH]

http://shop.ccs.com/searchresults/?N=780+478&cm=Skate

[tsangan]

Investigator Whiskers

[trax]

Would be cool if the screws matched the acrylic at the side (listers last case).

[litster]

Thanks for the links whiskerBox.  These screws are nice.  But I don't think they will fit because they only have one size and length.  This is what I think I will need:

Exposed screws and nuts:
5x front: M3 20mm length ~ 3/4"
8x rear: M3 28mm length ~ 1/ 1/8"

mcmaster.com doesn't seem to have 28mm long M3 screws.  The closest in inches would be1 1/8 inches 4-40 screws

Sunken screws and nuts (not going to do this due to gluing required):
M3 15mm ~ 9/16" (mcmaster.com has not even number length screws)
M3 23mm ~ 15/16"(mcmaster.com has not even number length screws)


I have been using 4-40 screws.  I think M3 in metric is the closest.

[whiskerBox]

Fastner express has the 20mm bolts but I am unsure if they have 28mm I will try to find out later. Maybe I will call them once you figure out exactly what you need and we can setup a kit through them for the phantom.

[TheProfosist]

Alright update since the PLU is a confirmed match to the Filco I have just bought 3 from qtan for the Phantoms that I am building. I asked him if I could offer you guys the same price and he said yes, so $68 it is. I order white with blues. O and I believe you save more on shipping the bulkier you buy and how you ship I had him ship to his warehouse then to me saving me $10 since were not in a hurry.

[demik]

whoa i haven't come in here in awhile. those cases look good.

[litster]

Thanks demik.  I should be making a third version which should be close to final.  Now that I can cut screws at whatever length I need, I think I have most of the final pieces I need.  Now, if I could find 4-40 lock nuts in black color, I will be golden!

TheProfosist, great idea!  Now, I think PLU is 95% Filco in design (except with crappy PCB and only 2, 3KRO).  But I don't think we are certain that PLU is 100% compatible.  When will you receive your PLU?  When you receive your PLU, will you be able to open up a Filco and put the Filco innards inside the PLU case?  Then we will for sure know that they are compatible or not.

How much is shipping?  That is a good price in that you get a case, switches, stabilizers, *and* an ANSI 1.25x plate.  PLU is plate-mount, is it?

[TheProfosist]

Thanks demik.  I should be making a third version which should be close to final.  Now that I can cut screws at whatever length I need, I think I have most of the final pieces I need.  Now, if I could find 4-40 lock nuts in black color, I will be golden!

TheProfosist, great idea!  Now, I think PLU is 95% Filco in design (except with crappy PCB and only 2, 3KRO).  But I don't think we are certain that PLU is 100% compatible.  When will you receive your PLU?  When you receive your PLU, will you be able to open up a Filco and put the Filco innards inside the PLU case?  Then we will for sure know that they are compatible or not.

How much is shipping?  That is a good price in that you get a case, switches, stabilizers, *and* an ANSI 1.25x plate.  PLU is plate-mount, is it?

Sadly I dont have a Filco and never will. As a reminder you did say

Thanks for the measurements.  They match Filco's.

And thanks for the gentle reminder, TheProfosist.  :-)

So i can provide additional measurements if needed once I get them but to me eyeballing the pictures they looked the same. If someone even somewhat near me has a Filco that can before opened up I would be wiling to do a test swap though I doubt that to be the case. The shipping for my 3 boards was going to be 40$ but dropped down to $30 when I went through his us warehouse instead of being shipped directly to me.

[litster]

Yes, the measurements match, but that is without physically putting Filco innards inside a PLU case to confirm.  PLU is so much cheaper, it is very like they cut some corners.  They will probably fit, but we are not 100% sure.  I just don't want people to spend money to get the PLU and end up not being a match with Filco.

[TheProfosist]

Yes, the measurements match, but that is without physically putting Filco innards inside a PLU case to confirm.  PLU is so much cheaper, it is very like they cut some corners.  They will probably fit, but we are not 100% sure.  I just don't want people to spend money to get the PLU and end up not being a match with Filco.

Would measurements of the PCB be of any help? And as I said I would be willing to drive a bit to solve this mystery but only and hour or 2. Im located in south eastern WI or im willing to buy one if I can get one cheap I can always resell later after this has all been figured out.

[TheProfosist]

Anyone that has a Filco wiling to buy a PLU as its much cheaper this was than me buying a Filco just to take apart and not use.

[litster]

With sunken, black-oxide hex cap screws:



The piano black finish does attract finger prints though.

[RiGS]

It looks amazing, though the 6 screws at the top seems a little bit overkill.

[tsangan]

That looks really good litster! I see all the hard work has paid off

[litster]

It looks amazing, though the 6 screws at the top seems a little bit overkill.

That looks really good litster! I see all the hard work has paid off

Thanks guys.  I need 2 screw up top in the middle to screw down the USB cable tight.  This case is a one off though.  The actual one that I want to make for more units will have exposed screws and nuts, not sunken.  I don't think exposed screws are worth the gluing trouble.

Edit:
I am typing on it now.  I am so proud or myself!  LOL!

[whiskerBox]

Thanks guys.  I need 2 screw up top in the middle to screw down the USB cable tight.  This case is a one off though.  The actual one that I want to make for more units will have exposed screws and nuts, not sunken.  I don't think exposed screws are worth the gluing trouble.

I guess that if people want sunken screws that they could do this on there own after the fact as well.

[litster]

you would have to drill the top layer and the bottom later to expand the holes.  I would not recommend that.  You could ruin the pieces.  I haven't found an effective way to glue them (altogether 6 layers, glue top and 2nd layer, 3rd and 4th layer, and 5th and bottom layer).  It is very time consuming and prone to error, messing up the case with glue.

[tsangan]

I actually love all the screws on it, makes it look more industrial haha

[whiskerBox]

you would have to drill the top layer and the bottom later to expand the holes.  I would not recommend that.  You could ruin the pieces.  I haven't found an effective way to glue them (altogether 6 layers, glue top and 2nd layer, 3rd and 4th layer, and 5th and bottom layer).  It is very time consuming and prone to error, messing up the case with glue.

Well right off the bat I can tell you that I wouldn't take this risk of damaging a case that was so expensive, I would just get some cool looking screws lol.

[RiGS]

Thanks guys.  I need 2 screw up top in the middle to screw down the USB cable tight.  This case is a one off though.  The actual one that I want to make for more units will have exposed screws and nuts, not sunken.  I don't think exposed screws are worth the gluing trouble.

Edit:
I am typing on it now.  I am so proud or myself!  LOL!

That explains it.
Well you should be.

I wonder how they managed to secure this keyboard without the visible screws.


http://www.otd.kr/bbs/board.php?bo_table=album&wr_id=84853&page=29

[litster]

If this is a metal case, then screws can be screwed in from the bottom.

EDIT: Nope, it doesn't look like a metal case.  Maybe the top 3 layers are glued, and holes are tapped with threads and screw in from the bottom.

[digitalleftovers]

I think that the screws give the case a stand-out quality.  If they must be there, then I think making too much effort to hide them would be like apologizing for their presence.  

Case looks awesome!

[ped]

Can someone explain what the PHANTOM kit for $25 on r4 is? I've been looking about and can't figure it out.

Also, litster, I'm not sure what you mean by exposed screws but wouldn't that interfere and make it so your hands/wrists brush against them? I'm sure you've taken that into account but just checking.

[dorkvader]

Litster: I thought that was an OTD case, so I didn't post. It's amazing!

I just spent hours drilling my AMP chassis from PMMA (acrylic) no errors, but it was a pain! the bit kept sticking, so forgive me if I'm not enthusiastic about having to tap or ream to the holes more for sunken screws. Either it's available on arrival, or not: I'll be very happy with exposed screwheads. They looks better, too.

Also, I was thinking of nuts/bolts. I wouldn't matter the length then: you can just have the extra bolt length sticking up. This is what I did with my amp (bolts and angle brackets) and it turned out well.

[litster]

I should give an update.  First set of plates are done as you saw the pictures I posted. There are some minor adjustments that we decided to make another set of plates to confirm.  The plates are being made next week.

PrinsValim is giving the PCB design one more final check, and then we will order 2 test PCBs.   If we order PCBs next week, hopefully we will receive them just after the new year.

[RiGS]

Have you ever wondered why those Korean plates have so many extra holes?

[litster]

Can someone explain what the PHANTOM kit for $25 on r4 is? I've been looking about and can't figure it out.

Also, litster, I'm not sure what you mean by exposed screws but wouldn't that interfere and make it so your hands/wrists brush against them? I'm sure you've taken that into account but just checking.

I think the PHANTOM kit in r4 is forthe7bit layout, or the phantom 1x win key and app key.  7bit will know for sure.

The screw heads on the top of the case would not interfere with your hands or fingers, at least not for me.

But Dorkvadar, if the screws are too long and stick out from the bottom, it would scratch your desk's surface.  I now cut the screws to length and use a low profile lock nut for each screw, so the case doesn't scratch desk surfaces.  I also use adhesive rubber feet so the nuts clear the desk surface completely.

I still need to make a few more design changes.  But, how many of you would order a case like this if it would cost $165 + shipping?  I am not actually sure how much it will cost to cut acrylic by a vendor, but that is a good guess if I made a small number of them, say 10 or so.

[whiskerBox]

I still need to make a few more design changes.  But, how many of you would order a case like this if it would cost $165 + shipping?  I am not actually sure how much it will cost to cut acrylic by a vendor, but that is a good guess if I made a small number of them, say 10 or so.

Count me In I want one!!!!

[litster]

Have you ever wondered why those Korean plates have so many extra holes?

I noticed that too.  They choose to cut out all the blank area.  That would make the plate more flexible, maybe it is to get the plate's stability and still have similar feel to PCB-mounted keyboards?

[RiGS]

I noticed that too.  They choose to cut out all the blank area.  That would make the plate more flexible, maybe it is to get the plate's stability and still have similar feel to PCB-mounted keyboards?

I think it could help eliminate/reduce any ringing from the plate. Also it slightly decreases the weight of the plate, while keeping the stability, though I doubt it would flex.
Maybe some of the Korean members could enlight this.

[litster]

Can someone explain what the PHANTOM kit for $25 on r4 is? I've been looking about and can't figure it out.

According to http://deskthority.net/wiki/Round4#Prices_for_Kits, Phantom kit is a set of "keys for the 7BIT Phantom layout".

[tsangan]

I still need to make a few more design changes.  But, how many of you would order a case like this if it would cost $165 + shipping?  I am not actually sure how much it will cost to cut acrylic by a vendor, but that is a good guess if I made a small number of them, say 10 or so.

In for at least one maybe two

[digitalleftovers]

In for at least one maybe two

I am at least thinking about it.  The custom case is part of what intrigues me about this...

[demik]

count me in for a case

[Autolyze]

I'm interested in the case if it'd work with the 7bit layout.

[tsangan]

I just want to say litster definitely had me sold on this project with that prototype case he made, I was unsure before as I had no Filco or PLU case to put this thing in, but now after his hard work I can definitely say I am in and cannot wait for this thing

[dorkvader]

But Dorkvadar, if the screws are too long and stick out from the bottom, it would scratch your desk's surface.  I now cut the screws to length and use a low profile lock nut for each screw, so the case doesn't scratch desk surfaces.  I also use adhesive rubber feet so the nuts clear the desk surface completely.

My preference is to have the screw head on the bottom (and not scratching that way) and to have the extra length stick out the top. Clearly it would need to be engineered for this from the outset, but I see it as the best solution if no custom-length screws can be had.

I just did the same thing for my amplifier chassis, which was made from acrylic (now I need to find a way to get the paper off it easily)

[litster]

I can now cut screws to length :-)  I just need good hand strength.

That rhythms!

[dorkvader]

What are you using:  A hacksaw?

[litster]

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00973575000P

[litster]

Just made a opaque white case with transparent blue middle layers.  I think it would look pretty good with black keycaps.  I am still waiting for my new black oxide hex cap screws.  So I should be able to take some pictures on Monday night.

[dorkvader]

I am still waiting for my new black oxide hex cap screws.

Oh, I can get those locally: they're awesome.

Interestingly enough, they don't sell metric nuts to go with them, though.
---
The new case sounds great! I can't wait for pictures.

[zzspectrez]

If this is a metal case, then screws can be screwed in from the bottom.

EDIT: Nope, it doesn't look like a metal case.  Maybe the top 3 layers are glued, and holes are tapped with threads and screw in from the bottom.

Did you know they make threaded plugs? I have seen a few different types. Some expand as you screw the screw into the plug securing it tight. Others can be glued in place, some are pressed. Basicly you would drill a hole into the top plate that the threaded plug would be pressed/glued into.

Here is an example product: http://www.ezlok.com/Home/index.html

[zzspectrez]

If this is a metal case, then screws can be screwed in from the bottom.

EDIT: Nope, it doesn't look like a metal case.  Maybe the top 3 layers are glued, and holes are tapped with threads and screw in from the bottom.

Did you know they make threaded plugs that can be pressed into a hole drilled into plastics ( and other materials ) to make them threaded. There are a few types some are just plain pressed in and some also have a compression quality. As you screw the screw in the threaded plug presses out against the wall.

[litster]

Did you know they make threaded plugs that can be pressed into a hole drilled into plastics ( and other materials ) to make them threaded. There are a few types some are just plain pressed in and some also have a compression quality. As you screw the screw in the threaded plug presses out against the wall.

Didn't know that.  Do you have a link to where I can buy some, or a link to a picture of it?  Thanks.

[litster]

Found this on mcmaster.com:  http://www.mcmaster.com/#threaded-inserts/=ffbndm

This seems to be the best I can find.  I am using 4-40 screws and would like to stay with 4-40.  Right now I am using thin lock nuts, with are only 1/8" thick.

[alaricljs]

ebay is the only place I've found them so far.  The company 'Nutsert' makes ones specifically for plastic that don't require being thermally set, but I have yet to find a source in the US.

[litster]

This might work: http://www.tristar-inserts.com/press-in-inserts.htm

Specifically, the HP series.

[zzspectrez]

Didn't know that.  Do you have a link to where I can buy some, or a link to a picture of it?  Thanks.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002GPNIOW/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B001BHI3I2&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=04QD2MNFRWH5SA1YZRB3