Author Topic: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)  (Read 374682 times)

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Offline damorgue

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #900 on: Wed, 18 December 2013, 14:05:47 »
Green and brown are boring as a lot of PCBs are in those colours. The korean PCBs tend to be red. GH doesn't yet have a colour which we usually go for. Orange and black?

I vote black, but I might be alone to like discreet and minimalistic around here.

Offline phatdood9

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #901 on: Wed, 18 December 2013, 14:51:14 »
The manufacturer needs some specific file naming conventions, I'm not 100% sure how I should do one specific file, can someone double check?

Board Outline:pcbname.GML/GKO

I just renamed the gbr file to a gko, is this okay?

btw, going with white pcb unless anyone objects !
« Last Edit: Wed, 18 December 2013, 15:04:03 by phatdood9 »

Offline graboy

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #902 on: Wed, 18 December 2013, 19:28:02 »
btw, going with white pcb unless anyone objects !

I'll second damorgue, black is my vote. And for GH style, is an orange silkscreen a possibility?

Offline phatdood9

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #903 on: Wed, 18 December 2013, 19:28:25 »
turned out to just be a difference in naming convention

I placed the order, it will ship to jdcarpe and he can distribute.

Total including shipping is $20 per 5, so $4 per pcb.

I ordered in white  :p
« Last Edit: Wed, 18 December 2013, 19:34:30 by phatdood9 »

Offline regack

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #904 on: Wed, 18 December 2013, 20:17:52 »
turned out to just be a difference in naming convention

I placed the order, it will ship to jdcarpe and he can distribute.

Total including shipping is $20 per 5, so $4 per pcb.

I ordered in white  :p

White is also good.  Too bad nobody offers purple.  Hopefully the silkscreen changed to black for a white PCB :D

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #905 on: Wed, 18 December 2013, 21:06:58 »
I missed it again :( and even more sad since it's more convenient 4x5 that I want  :'(

Somebody somewhere offers purple. I had a motherboard in purple before.

Offline whiskytango

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #906 on: Wed, 18 December 2013, 21:12:32 »
I missed it again :( and even more sad since it's more convenient 4x5 that I want  :'(

Somebody somewhere offers purple. I had a motherboard in purple before.

Ivan, unless someone else wants to part with one, you can have one of the two I asked for. I'll pay for it. You can just arrange shipping with jdcarpe and it's yours.
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #907 on: Wed, 18 December 2013, 21:16:32 »

I missed it again :( and even more sad since it's more convenient 4x5 that I want  :'(

Somebody somewhere offers purple. I had a motherboard in purple before.

Pretty sure Gold Phoenix offers purple.

And Ivan, I can send you one of mine. I won't use all 5.
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #908 on: Wed, 18 December 2013, 21:17:52 »
That's very nice of you!

Offline regack

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #909 on: Wed, 18 December 2013, 21:27:40 »
Pretty sure Gold Phoenix offers purple.

I thought I looked at gold phoenix before going to pcbwing... but you're right, they do have purple!


Offline phatdood9

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #910 on: Wed, 18 December 2013, 22:09:58 »
Next time purple then  :D

I highly doubt I'll get around to building all 5, whiskey you should keep them. Jdcarpe, if you are planning on building all yours, just  take one of my pcbs and arrange shipping w/ Ivan. no problem  :thumb:

Also, I think easiest way to arrange payment is just 1 payment to me for the pcb and a separate one to jdcarpe for shipping. We'll have to figure it out, it will be at least 2 weeks before they arrive.
« Last Edit: Wed, 18 December 2013, 22:13:39 by phatdood9 »

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #911 on: Wed, 18 December 2013, 22:43:36 »
Oh, can the SMD work if any be done for me by someone? I am sure I would ruin it if I had to try it.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #912 on: Wed, 18 December 2013, 22:58:12 »

Oh, can the SMD work if any be done for me by someone? I am sure I would ruin it if I had to try it.

Yeah, I can do that for you, too. I will add up all the prices for the PCB, components, shipping, etc. and let you know once it's ready. :)
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #913 on: Wed, 18 December 2013, 23:03:38 »
That's great, thanks.

Offline phatdood9

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #914 on: Thu, 19 December 2013, 00:07:50 »
That's why I got more than I needed, I've never dome smd soldering before :p

Isn't most of it just using solder paste w/ a heat gun?

Offline regack

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #915 on: Thu, 19 December 2013, 11:54:49 »
That's why I got more than I needed, I've never dome smd soldering before :p

Isn't most of it just using solder paste w/ a heat gun?

Could be.  I did mine with a T18-D24 tip & the FX888... I think that's the tip anyway.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #916 on: Thu, 19 December 2013, 12:34:04 »
I used my Hakko FX-888D with a T18-DL12 tip.
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Offline agodinhost

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #917 on: Thu, 19 December 2013, 15:57:22 »
So, whom payed the bills?
Whom should I send money to?
 :-\
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Offline phatdood9

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #918 on: Thu, 19 December 2013, 16:36:16 »
Oh, I ordered the pcbs, had them sent to jdcarpe.

I'm not sure how much shipping is going to be proxied through him, is the best way to send 2 paypal payments, 1 to me and 1 to him?

No rush, they still have to make them  :)

Offline MOZ

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #919 on: Fri, 20 December 2013, 23:31:30 »
The latest case design, I believe is much better than the previous one, this is the one sent out to lcs, mashby and BunnyLake. Countersunk screws, sturdier feet.




Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #920 on: Fri, 20 December 2013, 23:36:52 »
one day i will have a ghpad.....maybe....

Offline MOZ

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #921 on: Fri, 20 December 2013, 23:53:20 »
one day i will have a ghpad.....maybe....

TFR hasn't shipped it yet?

Offline TheFlyingRaccoon

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #922 on: Sat, 21 December 2013, 15:46:45 »
one day i will have a ghpad.....maybe....

TFR hasn't shipped it yet?

Well he didn't want me to ship it because he wanted the SMD soldering done. I offered to do if for free but he got tired of waiting so it was sent to JDcarpe to do the SMD soldering.

Oh and Moz, the new case design looks great! Much improvement over the last.
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Offline dragonxx21

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #923 on: Sat, 21 December 2013, 16:09:41 »
Those layered legs. Much nice.
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #924 on: Sun, 22 December 2013, 14:20:49 »
one day i will have a ghpad.....maybe....

TFR hasn't shipped it yet?

Well he didn't want me to ship it because he wanted the SMD soldering done. I offered to do if for free but he got tired of waiting so it was sent to JDcarpe to do the SMD soldering.

Umm no.  You said you didn't have time with all the other things you are doing and that I needed to find someone else to do it, this after I waited a few weeks with no word but that you would get it done, and that after waiting weeks with the packages being mis-shipped and I never asked you to do it for free and jdcarpe was paid and he will get it done I'm sure.

Another project I've spent way too much on with nothing to show for it.


Offline whiskytango

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #925 on: Sun, 22 December 2013, 15:27:39 »
it matters which way i solder on the diodes/resistors, right? if so, how do i know which way to put them on?

Resistors don't have polarity, so they can go anyway you want.

As for the diodes, the grey line on the diode goes on the side marked below, to identify the end, you need to look for the straight line on the silkscreen shown below:

Show Image


I installed my diodes exactly as MOZ said above. The gray line on the diode on the same side as the straight line on the silkscreen. And yet somehow, ALL of my diodes appear to be backwards. Can anyone else confirm that the silkscreen on the Prototype A is backwards? Or am I doing something wrong? I matched the cathode ban on my diodes with the cathode side (straight line) of the solder pads as MOZ's picture points out above.

Now, I have installed everything, flashed the firmware, and the only way I can get keys to register is if I short one side of the switch with the out-going side of the diode. If I short it to the other side of the diode, nothing happens. This tells me I have the diodes backwards, right?

regack, if you're reading this, how did you align your diodes? Like MOZ said above, or opposite?

Thanks. I am excited that at least the thing appears to be working.

EDIT: I just flipped one diode around and tested the board again. That key works now. So I guess now I am going to flip all of these diodes around. Oh boy...

« Last Edit: Sun, 22 December 2013, 15:46:35 by whiskytango »
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Offline swill

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #926 on: Sun, 22 December 2013, 16:15:36 »
it matters which way i solder on the diodes/resistors, right? if so, how do i know which way to put them on?

Resistors don't have polarity, so they can go anyway you want.

As for the diodes, the grey line on the diode goes on the side marked below, to identify the end, you need to look for the straight line on the silkscreen shown below:

Show Image


I installed my diodes exactly as MOZ said above. The gray line on the diode on the same side as the straight line on the silkscreen. And yet somehow, ALL of my diodes appear to be backwards. Can anyone else confirm that the silkscreen on the Prototype A is backwards? Or am I doing something wrong? I matched the cathode ban on my diodes with the cathode side (straight line) of the solder pads as MOZ's picture points out above.

Now, I have installed everything, flashed the firmware, and the only way I can get keys to register is if I short one side of the switch with the out-going side of the diode. If I short it to the other side of the diode, nothing happens. This tells me I have the diodes backwards, right?

regack, if you're reading this, how did you align your diodes? Like MOZ said above, or opposite?

Thanks. I am excited that at least the thing appears to be working.

EDIT: I just flipped one diode around and tested the board again. That key works now. So I guess now I am going to flip all of these diodes around. Oh boy...

I was also confused by this.  Checkout this question which we went back and forth a bit to finally figure out the answer: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40501.msg1118410#msg1118410  Expand all of the images and be very confused for a bit and then read everything and it will start to get a little clearer...

In short, the concept of + and - on a diode is very misleading.  You really have to think of it in regards to the current flow rather than + / - (which in itself is not obvious). 

If you read the pictures at face value it will look like the SMD 'line' is on the opposite side as the through hole diode 'line'.  Post back if that question/answer exchange is not clear enough...


Offline whiskytango

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #927 on: Sun, 22 December 2013, 17:23:49 »
Thanks swill. Although, I don't think that would have really helped me here. I wasn't thinking in terms of + or -, but rather I was matching the cathode line on the diode to the cathode line on the PCB. I was also going off what MOZ said. He posted that pic that I quoted above, and no one corrected him that I could see, so I assumed it was right...

Ok, so I just desoldered, flipped, and then resoldered all of the diodes on this thing. AND IT WORKS!. Hooray. And HUGE props to metalliqaz for his Easy AVR USB Firmware Keymapper, that thing is awesome!
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Offline dragonxx21

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #928 on: Sun, 22 December 2013, 19:47:52 »
Thanks swill. Although, I don't think that would have really helped me here. I wasn't thinking in terms of + or -, but rather I was matching the cathode line on the diode to the cathode line on the PCB. I was also going off what MOZ said. He posted that pic that I quoted above, and no one corrected him that I could see, so I assumed it was right...

Ok, so I just desoldered, flipped, and then resoldered all of the diodes on this thing. AND IT WORKS!. Hooray. And HUGE props to metalliqaz for his Easy AVR USB Firmware Keymapper, that thing is awesome!
So for your diodes they need to be flipped around? *takes mental note*
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Offline whiskytango

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #929 on: Sun, 22 December 2013, 20:21:16 »
dragonxx21, yes flip them around so that the line on the diode is opposite from the straight line side on the PCB.

I have it all pretty much together. Some progress pics below. One problem I see with an acrylic plate like this is that it was too thick to use plate mount stabs without a lot of modding and/or gluing, and the thickness also affects how much room there is between the plate and PCB which is also a problem for PCB mount stabilizers. You can see the side shots below where one side the PCB will not sit all the way down on the bottom of the switches because the stabs are in the way. I used PCB mount stabs. I tried to use the screw in kind, but those would not work at all since they wouldn't fit through the stab holes in the plate. Not sure if there is really a fix for this, and it has more to do with the case than the actual GHPad. I'm just not wild about acrylic plates. I love the genius design of MOZ's case though.

One other issue I would suggest fixing is maybe making the pads for the crystal a little larger. That might make it easier for using an iron to hand solder it. Of course, that won't matter when these are mass produced for a big GB, but it would make these prototypes easier.

All in all, for a first prototype, I love this thing. I don't personally care for the layout, but I knew that going in. I think I would rather have the extra keys be on the top row. The soldering is not pretty, but it's my first SMD work so I am just thrilled that it all works. Oh, and I ended up using some SS screws that I got in a big assorted pack on ebay. Enjoy the pics, and if you can't tell from my color choices, War Eagle!

 
« Last Edit: Sun, 22 December 2013, 20:26:15 by whiskytango »
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Offline swill

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #930 on: Sun, 22 December 2013, 20:30:33 »
Just because this is going to confuse a lot of people...

Here is an image of SMD diodes:


Here is a diagram of Anode / Cathode and a through hole diode:


And an image with a board:


NOTICE: The line on the through hole diode is at the Cathode end.  Also, notice that on the SMD, the line is on the Anode side.  So to me, it looks like the line means different things between SMD and through hole diodes...
« Last Edit: Sun, 22 December 2013, 20:33:27 by swill »

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #931 on: Sun, 22 December 2013, 21:49:43 »
Ah, so I guess my eyes may not be at fault, after all. I soldered the SOD-523 diodes with the band toward the band on the silkscreen, as WT did, but I suppose this must be the through hole convention, and opposite of the SMD convention.  I will have to reverse them.
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Offline whiskytango

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #932 on: Sun, 22 December 2013, 22:45:54 »
jd, I was able to desolder the 523s using the hakko 808. It will suck most of the solder off. Then, I used my soldering iron to kind of push on one leg of the diode and it would usually come off pretty easily and then the other side would pop off. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be to desolder them all.
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Offline MOZ

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #933 on: Tue, 24 December 2013, 06:56:36 »
@SpamRay: With all the cluster**** in my life, I can't say anything to TFR, however I can hope that you get your board soon.

As for the diode thing, I'm sorry but happy it got sorted out.

Regarding the design of the acrylic, the thickness is an issue, and I believe it is better to go with thinner top plate (~2.5), however acrylic thickness tolerance is a big issue as I have found out from various venders, they themselves have to face this problem and it all comes down to what is available when you are looking for it, and often means compromising.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #934 on: Tue, 24 December 2013, 08:19:53 »
Ray, I just received your GHPad in the mail yesterday. I will get it soldered for you and in the mail soon. It really depends on my work schedule and cetera.
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #935 on: Tue, 24 December 2013, 08:32:48 »
Ray, I just received your GHPad in the mail yesterday. I will get it soldered for you and in the mail soon. It really depends on my work schedule and cetera.


Thanks for letting me know JD. I thought you already had it, I was told it shipped the 13th lol, no hurry. And I appreciate you taking your time to help.

Offline OldDataHands

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #936 on: Tue, 24 December 2013, 09:41:29 »
Just because this is going to confuse a lot of people...

Here is an image of SMD diodes:
Show Image


Here is a diagram of Anode / Cathode and a through hole diode:
Show Image


And an image with a board:
Show Image


NOTICE: The line on the through hole diode is at the Cathode end.  Also, notice that on the SMD, the line is on the Anode side.  So to me, it looks like the line means different things between SMD and through hole diodes...

I have to completely disagree.

I just reviewed a number of datasheets,
both through-hole and SMA/SMB, and in
_ALL_ cases the band or notch denotes
the cathode of the diode.

In any case, it would be wise to refer to
the data sheet for your particular part,
but I do not expect any variance on this
aspect.

Offline swill

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #937 on: Tue, 24 December 2013, 10:34:58 »

Just because this is going to confuse a lot of people...

Here is an image of SMD diodes:
Show Image


Here is a diagram of Anode / Cathode and a through hole diode:
Show Image


And an image with a board:
Show Image


NOTICE: The line on the through hole diode is at the Cathode end.  Also, notice that on the SMD, the line is on the Anode side.  So to me, it looks like the line means different things between SMD and through hole diodes...

I have to completely disagree.

I just reviewed a number of datasheets,
both through-hole and SMA/SMB, and in
_ALL_ cases the band or notch denotes
the cathode of the diode.

In any case, it would be wise to refer to
the data sheet for your particular part,
but I do not expect any variance on this
aspect.

This image has to be wrong then?

Offline OldDataHands

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #938 on: Tue, 24 December 2013, 13:30:40 »

This image has to be wrong then?
Show Image

That picture is of polarized capacitors. Those devices will
typically fail catastrophically if a reversed voltage is applied.
The markings on a polarized caps have a different meaning
than the markings on diodes.

For the purpose of describing how diodes are used in a
keyboard switch matrix, I think that '+' and '-' can only be
confusing, inappropriate labels for diode terminals.
At various points during the scanning of a matrix with a
pressed switch a diode will have voltage across it in both
directions. Anode and Cathode are the correct terms/labels.
The cathode is marked, typically, but always check your
datasheet, then check how they are supposed to be used
in your particular circuit.

Offline fourzeropooh

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #939 on: Tue, 24 December 2013, 16:10:52 »
When these go into GB stage will the SMD work be predone?

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #940 on: Tue, 24 December 2013, 17:00:56 »
When these go into GB stage will the SMD work be predone?

The answer is almost certainly yes. Not many people are comfortable doing SMD soldering.
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #941 on: Tue, 24 December 2013, 18:00:17 »
When these go into GB stage will the SMD work be predone?

The answer is almost certainly yes. Not many people are comfortable doing SMD soldering.

Who will run this group buy?

Offline whiskytango

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #942 on: Wed, 25 December 2013, 00:29:26 »
@SpamRay: With all the cluster**** in my life, I can't say anything to TFR, however I can hope that you get your board soon.

As for the diode thing, I'm sorry but happy it got sorted out.

Regarding the design of the acrylic, the thickness is an issue, and I believe it is better to go with thinner top plate (~2.5), however acrylic thickness tolerance is a big issue as I have found out from various venders, they themselves have to face this problem and it all comes down to what is available when you are looking for it, and often means compromising.

@MOZ: I understand what you're saying about the thickness. I think it's just a problem with acrylic plates in general. You can make the cutout for the stabilizers bigger, but then you could only use PCB mount stabs. Please don't take it as criticism on your design though. I think this is a really sweet little case you have designed.What about using aluminum for just the top plate? Seems like I have seen this hybrid aluminum-acrylic design used on other cases. Of course then the price goes up I would assume. Can your cutter do aluminum?

@metalliqaz: I cannot get over how impressive your firmware tool is! This is my first use of it, but I am going to be using it for my Phantom, Black Petal, and Frosty Flake for sure. Haven't built the Petal or Flake yet, but it's on my to do list, and your firmware tool makes the programming part look a whole lot easier. Thanks for building and supporting this software!

Suggestion for those programming this prototype A: I mapped my left arrow to backspace on the fn layer and I really like it there.
I stay busy with work and family these days, but I'm still around, lurking.

Offline phatdood9

  • Posts: 162
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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #943 on: Wed, 25 December 2013, 00:34:22 »
good news! I got a shipment notification for the 4x5 pcbs. internet is a bit spotty right now, but ill fwd the tracking into to jdcarpe in a few.

Offline agodinhost

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #944 on: Thu, 26 December 2013, 06:54:31 »
... Black Petal, and Frosty Flake ...
sorry my ignorance, what is it?
Building one square I2C keyboard with those 1200 switches (thanks JDCarpe)
GH60 |GH60-Alps |GH60-BT |GHPad/GHPad Alps |GH60-Case |Alps TKL |EL Wire |OS Controller, Round 2 |My Custom Keyboard |WTT/WTB

Offline regack

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #945 on: Thu, 26 December 2013, 08:14:18 »
... Black Petal, and Frosty Flake ...
sorry my ignorance, what is it?

Those are just a couple of the replacement controllers that bpiphany has created :
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46700.msg1083984#msg1083984




Offline domoaligato

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #946 on: Thu, 26 December 2013, 12:22:02 »
hybrid metal/acrylic case ftw!

Offline dragonxx21

  • Posts: 471
Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #947 on: Mon, 30 December 2013, 15:37:26 »
Just want to point out to WhiskyTango and anyone else who got diodes from WhiskyTango. The sheets he sent me did in fact show that the band was to signify the cathode (-) end and not the anode (+) end.
Keyboards Owned:

Realforce Topre 91 Key JIS Profile - Main
CM Quickfire Rapid Blue Switches
IBM Model M in Industrial Shell

Offline swill

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #948 on: Mon, 30 December 2013, 15:43:16 »
Just want to point out to WhiskyTango and anyone else who got diodes from WhiskyTango. The sheets he sent me did in fact show that the band was to signify the cathode (-) end and not the anode (+) end.

thanks for verifying that...

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: GHpad FTW (10-Key Pad for GH60)
« Reply #949 on: Mon, 30 December 2013, 18:29:26 »
Got a little something in the mail today...



Regack, any idea why the reverse side solder mask would come out like that? It's the same on all 20 PCBs.

Also, I'm leaving town tomorrow for a few days vacation, so I won't be able to ship anything before next Monday, January 6th.
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


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